"secret clubs"

[insideontheoutside]

Any of you ever feel like you were seeing or being a part of some secret club if people viewed you as female? It's quite an odd thing that I've observed over the years that I haven't really been able to observe when hanging with guys (even guys that did not know I wasn't totally biologically male). I'll throw out some examples ...

1. You're in mixed company and the other girls seem to decide it's a male vs. female situation or that the boys should go off and do one thing and the girls should go off and do another. So they co-opt you and drag you away and then they either just talk about their boyfriends the whole time or some other topic like make up or shopping.

2. Once again you're in mixed company and one female says something along the lines of, "don't you hate it when guys do this ...." and then look to you for approval.

3. You happen to be in a group of just girls and they start talking about girl things like periods, or make up, or sex with their boyfriends, or babies, or any number of things and they expect you to talk as well.

4. You find yourself in some situation like a locker room ... a spa ... anywhere where females are getting undressed and they kind of look at you funky if you're not.

Now, to contrast these "female observations", here's the same type of situations when observed from a male viewpoint.

1. So the girls want to separate - good.

2. Why do girls like to point out stuff like this right in front of guys? I don't often observe guys doing the same around girls. A group of guys without a girls involved? Sure, I've seen that.

3. This one can actually go both ways. I've been in groups of guys where they were all talking about sex or any number of topics but it was still different. It's hard to explain though. Guys will razz other guys about sex stuff if say, one of them hasn't gotten laid in forever. But it's more of just a joking thing. Guys also have no qualms about talking about bodily functions or things like that. Women seem to relegate their bodily function stuff to just talking about periods and pregnancy as far as I can ascertain. I haven't been in a group of women who were talking about farting or hemorrhoids. Does this mean guys are just more crass? Or that they don't really give a ->-bleeped-<-? Who is to say.

4. I can't say that I've personally been in this situation with other guys. I have been in situations where guys were either changing clothes or taking off their shirts for one reason or another and no one paid any kind of attention to what I was doing at all.

This could all just exemplify how I don't really understand women or there could be something to it, not sure. All I know is that the women seem to operate in a clique. They love to have another women "on their side". They have a totally different way of "bonding" than men do.

[Eve of chaos]

throughout my life I had always tended to hang out with the girls. so to some sort i was accepted in the club while still being male

1 and 2 for sure. I alwasy got that, but only from girls who knew me, so idk if that counts.

haha but not 3 and 4. I have not been in a girls locker room

yet :p

[JosephKT]

Sure women bond differently from men.  There's a lot of things women as a broad generalization do that mildly annoys me to downright sicken me.  But I think a lot of that comes from, until rather recently women have been a largely marginalized group in almost all society and it has led to a kind of "pack" behavior.  I the flip side, none of my female friends are those "kinds" of girls.

Dunno, sounds like the ladies who surround you are atypical girly-girls.  When my friends hang out co-opt I've never had them do any of the stuff you listed.  At most if it's a specifically female topic they bring it up as a "hey, guys.  I'm curious about something and need a guys point of view" and will include me in the male perspective.  Likewise my male friends will do the same.  Sometimes someone will ask "hey, since you kinda know what its like from both sides what's your opinion of this topic?" but unless the person is just an acquaintance no one really puts me in the "girls' team" so to speak.  As far as spas are concerned, the ones I've been to are used to different comfort levels of personal nudity so it hasn't been a problem.

Okay I retract the statement, the only time the girls have gone off on their own is when there is a romantic problem say one of the girls just had a bad breakup, and they feel like they need to give her some just girl comfort time.  But if this is a co-opt outing, generally one of the girls will come back and let the guys know what's up and after a while rejoin and then it's co-opt comfort time.  Or not if she "doesn't want to talk about it," but all men know that phrase is really just a catch-22 

[tekla]

it has led to a kind of "pack" behavior.

As opposed to like the way guys run in packs?  Or are you thinking 'packs' vs. 'gangs.'

[JosephKT]

Okay, totally wasn't clear on what I meant there.

I guess the way I see it, guys run in packs kinda in the way wolves do. 

Women run is packs the way of "secret clubs" do -points at title- Probably more like "secret societies" though.  I imagine the Illuminati or something run in similar ways to examples 1 - 4, expect they probably don't talk about periods and sex with boyfriends.  Or maybe they do, who knows. 

Like I said, kinda using broad generalizations here.  Not all men or women fits said behavior.

[insideontheoutside]

Like I said, kinda using broad generalizations here.  Not all men or women fits said behavior.

Yeah and with the stuff I said in the original post these are isolated incidents, but ones I've seen over and over again over the course of like 20 years. I don't have any close friends that act like that, and I wasn't really talking on the close friend level - more like acquaintances, friends-of-friends ... basically any time there's a group and you get seized into the female group. I've even had girls that I KNEW totally hated me buddy-buddy up to me when there was a split in the group and they felt like they needed more female support or something. I've never had that happen with a group of guys.   

[JosephKT]

I've even had girls that I KNEW totally hated me buddy-buddy up to me when there was a split in the group and they felt like they needed more female support or something.

I think some of that comes from a learned non-confrontational behavior too.  Guys a taught to confront a problem, face it head-on, "be a man" so to speak.  So when they rub off wrong on each other they'll posture until figuring out who's alpha.  Girls, until more recently and even still are sometime, are largely told not to "rock the boat," and maybe it's a way to "include you" and make the unit seem whole.  Or maybe it's a manipulative, over-complicated and back-stabby way to make you squirm.  I don't know, I've met people who would do just what you say for both reasons.

[PixieBoy]

In my opinion, generalizations:
Girls are creepy backstabbing, tattling weirdoes. They are always inspecting one another, and always talk trash behind each other's backs. They always check on each other, to see who gets to be the "slut" or "prissy" this time. It's scary. They also talk in a very weird convoluted way, like some sort of secret code, they never say things straight out, always layers of hidden meanings. Girls are pretty interested in sex, but they have to hide it a lot, they want to talk about it but they can't really say it because then they're "sluts".

Guys are easier to understand and usually have more of a "one for all, all for one" kind of mentality. They don't inspect each other and rarely comment on looks. They don't talk trash behind each other's backs. They usually say things straight out, not so many hidden meanings, so it's easier to understand. Some guys are incredibly scared/disgusted by anything that might be seen as gay, and some aren't. Most guys aren't afraid to talk about sex and things like that.

[JosephKT]

Wow... I really hope people don't start to take this as a female trashing rant we're on.

On the flip side.  You know, as much as I find more guys I'm cool with than girls, I have seen men who "inspect" each other, do pretty back stabby and scary things to each other.  It's usually found in competitive atmospheres, like sport teams, corporate culture and politics.  Ironically all places that tend to severely keep women at a disadvantage and remain largely homophobic.  Maybe they just need some gay in them and they'll lighten up.

[Aikotribs]

I'm ... sadly enough with pixieboy on this, but please do keep in mind I have ALLOT of negative experience with girls in general, and a few years back I have decided that I was sick of being the regular boxing material.
I now have 2 female friends and they know I'm not a girl, so we do get along, but I'm rather tired of the way women treated me so I keep them away.

Any of you ever feel like you were seeing or being a part of some secret club if people viewed you as female?

All my life actually, I view it as 'the boring club I rather not be a part off' ,I think I'v seen someone call it 'social isolation' ,that pretty much sums it up. 


as for all the questions; I walk away and don't participate anymore. In my life experience it taught me not to trust women, they will be nice to my face and backstab me later when then notice I'm not magically going to understand their world, or even dress like a real girl. The moment eventually comes when they realize we have NOTING in common but the body and they will try to get rid of me, sometimes in very inhumane ways.
I'd rather be one step ahead and keep a distance.

[Inkwe Mupkins]

Men and women are completely different in social terms. See girls that I know see me as a girl and guys that I know see me as a guy and in public im always seen as guy.

With girls they gossip and talk about fashion, dieting, etc. I find females to be more stuck-up and arrogant, they care to much. They don't like cracking fart jokes and when someone rips one lose they go off and rant for an hour about it's disgusting. They take things to seriously. However, most of the girls I know don't talk about periods, sex, or anything that has to do with the southern parts.

All of my close friends are guys and untill this year at lunch my table never consisted of a girl. Guys seem more laid back, not as up tight about things, and slow to anger (however lots of guys anger quickly). I'm glad the guys see me as a guy regardless of body parts but one thing I don't like about hanging out with guys is they talk about some pretty nasty sexual stuff and expect me to chime in. Cis guys will ask me all the time isn't she hot, look at that ass, and I am not attracted to females. However there's nothing more funny than a good ole fart joke.

[Marcelo Caetano]

I live by myself, specially 'cause of college and sometimes I have hard time when there's a sleep over or something like that.
Most of my closer friends are girls and often I'm the only guy around them.
Sometimes I feel uncomfortable about that, like I'm not with the right group or a 'i don't belong here' kinda of feeling.
But I really don't know what to do to have more male friends. Better, I have lots of male friends, but we're not that much closers.
They've met me like a girl and sometimes I fell like they don't want me to make part of their club...

[insideontheoutside]

I definitely didn't start this as a rant post! Just as observations and feelings I've had over time.

Another thing I've dealt with is when I'm the only guy (and the group of girls is treating me like a guy) they tend to be nicer to me. If I'm playing the part of a girl in a group of girls, that nice thing seems like a chore to them. Like they can sense I don't really fit but since they're taking me as female they feel like they have to make me part of the group.

Again, these have been isolated situations with certain groups of people (often not my friends, just acquaintances - maybe it was a group I was stuck in with school or work, or out with other friends and then joined a larger group). Everyone is different of course but I've felt or seen these types of things.

I've known many girls who were laid back, or just more down to earth I guess? Not interested in a competition or anything. It does seem like there's a certain "type" of girl that acts that way though - maybe multiple variations of that type.

Either way, I never feel comfortable when I'm stuck having to deal with a group of girls and they are considering me one of them.

[kyril]

There is a "club." I was rarely invited...and never invited back.

[FebruaryFalls]

I can't think of many situations where I've been included in the girl group, once when I was 11 and maybe once or twice through highschool...but there always seemed to be guys around, or it wasn't considered a "woman exclusive experience"

I never went that direction and pretty much everyone accepted me for that, I've always been one of the guys

I'm sure there's a "club" but I've never been a part of it, I've only dated people in the clubs

[Alexmakenoise]

I tend to be included in the guy group once I open up to people and let them see me for who I really am.  (I can be kind of reserved and hard to get to know at first.)  I'm very rarely included in the girl group, and even then, it tends to be only a matter of politeness, and I tend to decline.  I definitely look more feminine than masculine, but I think girls can tell that I'm really not one of them.

[Mr.Rainey]

When we have girls nite/guys nite in my group of friends (I'm not out to them, they just assume I am butch) the guys usually end up taking me because everyone knows I'd be bored doing girl stuff and I'd rather play videogames, watch moves, drink beer and order pizza.