What Are Religious Texts Really Saying About Gay and Transgender Rights?

[Shana A]

What Are Religious Texts Really Saying About Gay and Transgender Rights?
An Interview with Bishop Gene Robinson
By Jeff Krehely , Sally Steenland | December 8, 2010

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/12/lgbt_religious_texts.html

Jeff Krehely: The Washington Post asked you to write a series of columns about the way biblical passages have been used to characterize homosexuality and gay rights. Why did The Post ask you to write on this particular topic?

Bishop Gene Robinson: The Post ran a guest piece by Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council. Readers were horrified that they would print something so backward and critical of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people. In that article, as the religious right is wont to do, he quoted scripture—the story of the woman supposedly caught in adultery. Jesus ultimately says to her, "Go and sin no more." Perkins claims the Bible sees homosexuality as a sin and suggests that Jesus would also tell gays and lesbians to "sin no more."

Sally Quinn [editor of The Post's On Faith columns] was very interested in having someone counter that argument, so I wrote a piece refuting the use of that particular scripture. She then said, "We really should take a look at what the Bible does and does not say about homosexuality." So that led to this series.

[spacial]

Adultry is a sin because it is forbidden by the 7th commandment. It is a betrayal of trust.

There are no other commandments dealing with personal relationships.

Even Jesus didn't add to the commandments, simply clarifying them, while specifically abrogating all additions.

So, for these people to add homosexuality or anything else that takes their fancy, to the commandments, is to make themselves equal to God and superior to Jesus.

[Julie Marie]

I think that 90 percent of the pain and struggle we have experienced as the LGBT community can be laid at the feet of religious people.

I think it's closer to 100%.  I can't think of a single instance where a justification supporting anti-LGBT sentiment didn't have at it's core a religious based origin.

[tekla]

Agreed.

[spacial]

I think it's closer to 100%.  I can't think of a single instance where a justification supporting anti-LGBT sentiment didn't have at it's core a religious based origin.

While I do appreciate your point, my own experiences are very different.

All the opposition I've sought to avoid, has come from people who are insecure.

This has manefested itself in those that seek to attack poofs, often physically. people who simply claim they hate poofs. Women who seem to resent those who are not interestred in them. And those that try to claim that anyone not hetrosexual must be child molesters.

[Julie Marie]

While I do appreciate your point, my own experiences are very different.

All the opposition I've sought to avoid, has come from people who are insecure.

This has manefested itself in those that seek to attack poofs, often physically. people who simply claim they hate poofs. Women who seem to resent those who are not interestred in them. And those that try to claim that anyone not hetrosexual must be child molesters.

Walk back through the process by which people have become phobic about LGBTers.  As you go back you will eventually find a religious based prejudice.  As you return to the present time, you will see how that religious based prejudice encouraged others to adopt their anti LGBT feelings.

What today may seem like insecurity, fear of the unknown, etc has its roots in some form of religious dogma.  The haters out there always go to the bible or some other "holy book" to justify their hatred.

There's an awful lot of people who can't accept their own mortality so the idea of everlasting life, in a nice place  , is very appealing to them.  And if the book that is the way to enjoying everlasting life says supporting homosexuality will get you thrown in hell, the sheep are more than happy to bash gays so they get a nice cushy cloud and life ever after.

It's all about CYA.

[tekla]

In Europe religion is basically a cultural deal, at best, a hobby.  Here, it's a weapon.  Whole differenet game.  Why I bet we have people on this very board who were raised and taught a kind of religion that thinks The Flintstones is a documentary, and ought to be taught alongside science as an equal truth, in public schools, so everyone else's kids can be just as dumb as theirs are.  And that's just the beginning.

[V M]

People have been deciphering and translating what folks were on about 2000 years ago for quite awhile

How much you wanna bet that most couldn't really understand what someone truly meant by something someone wrote yesterday?

Well the caveman wrote on a piece of paper that he talked to God and it was buried in a cave so it must be true... Besides, I can make it fit my own ideals anyway I like... So, give me part and/or all your wealth or I'll kill you because God said it was okay because I'm so special and god only talks to those who he chooses because they are so special

Oh! But if you act within' the next 5 MINUTES I'll give you a fancy outfit and title that will no doubt impress others... PLUS THERE'S MORE!!! You'll receive My personal favorite book of chants and songs that will help you connect and get closer to God

So don't delay!!! Send a sizable amount of dough (for what is dinner without bread?) to the daisyinmybutt.org foundation for god only knows

Oh, and worship cavemen

[spacial]

Walk back through the process by which people have become phobic about LGBTers.  As you go back you will eventually find a religious based prejudice.  As you return to the present time, you will see how that religious based prejudice encouraged others to adopt their anti LGBT feelings.

What today may seem like insecurity, fear of the unknown, etc has its roots in some form of religious dogma.  The haters out there always go to the bible or some other "holy book" to justify their hatred.

There's an awful lot of people who can't accept their own mortality so the idea of everlasting life, in a nice place  , is very appealing to them.  And if the book that is the way to enjoying everlasting life says supporting homosexuality will get you thrown in hell, the sheep are more than happy to bash gays so they get a nice cushy cloud and life ever after.

It's all about CYA.

Have to disagree.

The opposition to any non-conformist practices was, I suggest, born out of the need for leaders to supress opposition.

Leaders use anything to justify their behaviour. Bush/Blair claimed to be using religion to justify lying to us all then bombing the ancient culture of Iraq back to the stone age.

One of the claims there, (and Kuwait), was they were introducing demoncracy. Indeed, at one point, several US government types said, Iraq is free while women raked through the rubble of their homes, searching in vain for their children.

We all know that wasn't democracy. We don't oppose democracy because the word has been missused as an excuse for the opposite.

In the case of Christian teaching, for example, it is quite clear, the only restriction on relationships is adultry. No-one has the right to judge.

When people claim they are promoting Christianity, for example, to justify persecuting people for anything they are clearly lying.

To be frank, agreeing with these idiots seems to be more supportive than opposing.

[Julie Marie]

Religion is at the core of almost every prejudice, bias, hatred, and justification of such.  Dark skinned people were believed to have been burned by god because they were sinners.  Jehovah's Witnesses still believe this.  An African American member of the cult told me this.    Women were considered inferior to men because they came from the rib of man and therefore should be subservient.  People who we later called insane were believed to be possessed by the devil.  Some could have had Alzheimer's but they were brutally treated and even murdered.  All justified by religious beliefs. 

Humankind has forever explained their ignorance with religion.  Earthquakes, famine, volcanic eruptions and deep space impacts were all explained away by saying it was god's work and we were being punished for our sins.  If you were hit by lightning, you must have sinned.  If a branch fell on your head, you must have sinned.  Anything that couldn't be explained was god's work.

Today we have modern science disproving countless old beliefs but that hasn't prevented an awful lot of people on this earth from sticking to the 2000 year old stories.  "Don't rock my boat!  It works for me!"  And very often that means their conformity has been rewarded with minimal discrimination.  For the leaders their reward has been wealth and power.

Sure, people use religion for personal gain.  They always have.  History books are littered with stories of people who have gained power and wealth through the use of religion.  Go out on the street and start trashing some group, say they will decay the morality of society, quote passages from the bible, say they must be eliminated and start passing the hat around to further the cause and watch the hat fill.  That concept can be done on a street corner, in a corporate boardroom or at the government level.  No matter where it's done, there will be followers and they will pay.  The PT Barnum's will always be out there and so will suckers.

[spacial]

I understand your point.

But I suggest religion isn't so much at the core as being used. The core are those who seek to enforce their notions by any means.

That may be religion and frequently is. When the texts don't say what is required, they are fabricated. This was done by the Popes and others for almost 1000 years, until finally, people began to read the texts for themselves.

Other justifications may be science. Eugenics. Claims that children from India carry diseases. (Used by some idiots here in the UK, in the 60s and 70s).

Science can be preverted as much as religion, perhaps more so, since few understand the science. It can't be checked, since experts can always over rule and there is always another expert. Climate change for example. In the late 60s we were told there would be standing room only on the planet by 1999. In 1990 we were told sea levels would rise by a metre by 2012. (I live on the coast). I personally find psychology so utterly laughable and can't understand how anyone can take it seriously. Yet few dare question psychologists.

But the answer is quite simple really, it's politics. Absolute liberty.

The notion that we each have a basic right to live as we choose. As basic as life itself. Restrictions can only be justified to protect the liberty of others.

I don't think the world is yet ready for absolute liberty. Most would seek to forbid, those choosing to, to walk around naked for example, to take an extreme case.

Religion and science are, in reality, two sides of the same coin.

[Dana Lane]

Religion is at the core of almost every prejudice, bias, hatred, and justification of such.  Dark skinned people were believed to have been burned by god because they were sinners.  Jehovah's Witnesses still believe this.  An African American member of the cult told me this.    Women were considered inferior to men because they came from the rib of man and therefore should be subservient.  People who we later called insane were believed to be possessed by the devil.  Some could have had Alzheimer's but they were brutally treated and even murdered.  All justified by religious beliefs. 

Humankind has forever explained their ignorance with religion.  Earthquakes, famine, volcanic eruptions and deep space impacts were all explained away by saying it was god's work and we were being punished for our sins.  If you were hit by lightning, you must have sinned.  If a branch fell on your head, you must have sinned.  Anything that couldn't be explained was god's work.

Today we have modern science disproving countless old beliefs but that hasn't prevented an awful lot of people on this earth from sticking to the 2000 year old stories.  "Don't rock my boat!  It works for me!"  And very often that means their conformity has been rewarded with minimal discrimination.  For the leaders their reward has been wealth and power.

Sure, people use religion for personal gain.  They always have.  History books are littered with stories of people who have gained power and wealth through the use of religion.  Go out on the street and start trashing some group, say they will decay the morality of society, quote passages from the bible, say they must be eliminated and start passing the hat around to further the cause and watch the hat fill.  That concept can be done on a street corner, in a corporate boardroom or at the government level.  No matter where it's done, there will be followers and they will pay.  The PT Barnum's will always be out there and so will suckers.

I love it when you talk about religion!