Transgender People Face ID Dilemma

[LostInTime]

Link

Obtaining a driver's license or passport, the ID gold standards in the U.S., are just the tip of the iceberg, says one national transgender activist.

"We are more and more living in a country where having appropriate ID is necessary," Mara Keisling, executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality, said in an EDGE interview. "Most of the focus on things like identification in news media has been around travel and how you need good ID to get on an airline. It is an important part, but you also need appropriate ID that matches to open a bank account, to ride on trains, to buy cigarettes, to drink alcohol and most importantly--far, far more importantly--to have a job."

[Stormy Weather]

Without straying too far into a political morass, this 'war on terror' has upped the ante on passports. Biometric ID cards are just around the corner in the UK, biometric and photo-recognition passports already the norm. How long until genetic fingerprints are on there as well?

How long until the post-op and FFSed Fs amongst us are burdened with the tagged Y chromosome glowing on that passport control officer's screen? You can change your birth certificate but nothing changes the truth.

Happy days.

[Melissa]

How long until the post-op and FFSed Fs amongst us are burdened with the tagged Y chromosome glowing on that passport control officer's screen? You can change your birth certificate but nothing changes the truth.

Hehe, if it becomes a problem for all TS's, including those that are stealth, then you can pretty much bet there will be some kind of revolution.  You know how many of us there actually are?  You force a large group of people into a corner and they will retaliate. This will be interesting.   Don't forget about the FTMs either.

Melissa

[cindianna_jones]

Cept Melissa, you'd never be able to get a group of us to agree on much.  Oh maybe if we were forced into a corner.  I think that to implement a new program on this scale is a bit too overwhelming to not just let everyone in at first and then implement the new procedures on new ID's.  But hey.. what do I know.

I've kept all my legal documents and that will have to do.  I wish that we could just go after the bad people instead of do all of this other crap that does little to prevent anything.

Cindi

[Terri Gene]

Can't fight the world and its options, but I can do whatever can be legally done to back it off a few yards.  Personally I can do without going overseas or being in positions that require such radical approaches.  My older self is so long dead now I've forgotten his face, now just deal with Me and who I am.

Terri

[Sheila]

What can they do? All of us that have had surgery, well, we are women. We may not have the two x's but we look like women. Even the women who have not had surgery and they pass, are they going to strip search you everytime you want to use the restroom. Even if they have those fancy ID's, what are they going to do, have a security guard check ID's everytime you use the restroom? The could implement a third restroom, but that would cost a lot of money for a few people. Doesn't make business sense to me, if you have seen what it cost to build another restroom and keep it in stock. Then who will make sure that the right people are using said restroom? Will we have the right to make sure it is gender right, what about mixing the FtoM and the MtoF. I guess there will have to be another restroom built. I wonder what kind of sign they will put on them, for the people who can't read or don't know that language? This is just a restroom issue, what about Gyms? I don't think anything will happen, there is too much to consider and the money would be out of sight. It would give GW a headache. Oh, I'm sorry, I was going to say something else but someone would be offended.
Sheila

[Terri Gene]

Lemme say it this way .... When I worry about such things THEN they can worry about it, as long as I'm comfortable, don't pay any attention to me, timewaster.  Lemme say just lve a little life and if it's over or under someone elses head, line up for a better shot.

Terri

[LostInTime]

I have a huge problem.  The story is long but the short of it is that if I cannot get the knot untied before May of 08 I will really be screwed.

[Stormy Weather]

There's just a little more about this than which toilet to use...

I plan on doing some extensive travelling within the next few years. Those IDs that Sheila refers to as 'fancy' are nothing of the sort. What they are proposing — in the UK at least — is that these biometric ID cards will also eventually contain your medical history from cradle to grave and yes, that it will be impossible to get work without one.

This isn't some paranoid fantasy; these are due for nationwide rollout for foreign nationals living in the UK from 2008 and within 2-3 years across the whole country. This is all part of an EU-wide effort anyway.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/idcards/story/0,,1975588,00.html

And I'm sure that legislators on the other side of the Atlantic will be watching this very closely... so if you think it won't affect you then prepare to be surprised one day.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/30/us_eu_biometric_id_compatability/

Are your papers in order?

[Sheila]

I still feel that it won't be a big deal. If they do get those kind of ID's that will tell your medical history from birth or maybe from conception to when? So you won't be as stealth to the people who use the ID machines. What are they going to do? You won't be able to travel, I don't think so. I suppose that these ID's will relplace the passport. What are they going to deny you? You can go dressed however you want. Your expression is still yours. Lets not get our panties in a bunch. Write to your representative, for USA, I don't know what they are called in other countries, but do write. Express your opinion as much as you can and that is all we can do. Don't do something cause you are afraid of what might happen. Try and change the laws in your community and your state and your country. Try to make this world all inclusive for all.
Sheila

[Stormy Weather]

Parochial complacency... also nice to see others willing to forego civil liberties on other's behalves.

Have you read the article? And as for 'what are they going to do?'... I suspect you too would have been disgusted at the treatment I received at a local hospital recently when I had to out myself. Once it is was known that I was TS, attitudes changed dramatically and the treatment I received was degrading.

Having to out yourself for the purpose of officialdom is carte blanche for discrimination. In the future, I genuinely hope you don't have to explain yourself in the face of some ignorant and boorish official, let alone facing discrimination when looking for work...

[Sheila]

Stormy,
  I'm sorry if I made you upset. Yes, I have had to out myself on several occassions, to some educated a-----e. I have also been treated poorly in the hospital for surgery. I complained and I complained and took steps to get an appology. I was told by a doctor that they didn't know what to do with me as I am different, he used a different term. He had to talk to someone about what to do with me and the procedure to follow. I was only asking for my prostrate to be examined, not that I wanted that to happen but I felt it was a necessary evil. He didn't want to touch me. I needed to make sure that my vagina was healing ok, he said he couldn't do that as he didn't know what he was looking for. I told him to look to make sure it was healing and make sure there isn't anything growing in there that shouldn't be. Your the doctor. He got mad and I did to. I wrote a letter to his boss. I have another doctor now and he does not work there anymore. I face my problems with a positive point of view and I will not fear the buearocrats. If Hitler comes to power again, I will be the first to go. They won't wait to put a tatoo on my arm. I will not be quiet, not for a second.
Sheila

[Terri Gene]

Hi there Stormy,

I suspect you too would have been disgusted at the treatment I received at a local hospital recently when I had to out myself.

( look into a communication class for one thing }

Glad you were there to have fun there girl.  I've been in and out of hospitals and businesses for years, and I can not disagree more with your evaluation of Outing yourself.  I get along with other patients and staff and if anything, everyone does what they can to help out aything I'm in trouble with.  Often giving me more recent information for what I want.

The prime part about rights is not what is signed/sealed into law.  People can see you and evaluate your actions.  Passing extream laws for tracking people may help society in the long run, but if you do not display an antagonistic attitude and push your rights around, generally people will read you for a real person and have no reason or intent to do you harm.

Don't go off on Sheila simply because she enjoys a better experience in life then you have found.  It's a difference in mood, temporment and lifestyle that earns her credit in her community, and what you find in yours.  She holds and keeps her job because of a proven ability to do so and she minds what her community wants in the way bidding with others.  Try it sometime.

Laws are made and laws are broken, but you will be seen for what you are in most parts of the country and they laws you mention are to track down and identify people with wrongdoing few of us have any serious intention of.

Mind the company you are in and play by the rules of the land.  Then and only then will you be able to assert yourself as the woman you are.  Long hair and a big bust is about as busty as it gets, but a whole and fair heart tells of your desire  and duty to yourself, others and the world about you.

Terri

[cindianna_jones]

Stormy, I'm on your side with this one.  All my government needs to know about me is my name and that I honestly pay my taxes.  It has no right to collect personal data about me.  The potential for abuse is too high.  In the article, it mentions that governments may exchange data.  Right... I'd really love some country in Europe knowing where I worked or that I have diabetes. 

Before you know it, they'll use medical histories to deny you medical insurance.... for if it is available to foreign countries, it will be available to the insurance companies.  (Check out your local DMV to see if this is possible).

Ever see the film Gattica?  Don't think that's possible?  Remember George Orwell?  Same sort of thing.. We've already implemented much of Orwell's terror.  Yes, we have cameras every where.  We strive to dumb down the populace by presenting entertainment instead of news. Our reasons for the war change every other month.  And our esteemed president is a great fan of Newspeak.  So, Gatica is the next step.

I am very much against most of what the new ID card legislation represents.  This implementation will do little to fix the problems that we have.  If we really wanted to resolve our problems in the world, we should figure out why people hate us so much.  If' we could figure that out, we could fix the problems instead of just sending our kids off to get shot at.

But the lemmings will follow.  Remember that Benjamin Franklin said that "those who give up their freedom in favor of security don't deserve freedom."  I paraphrased. 

Cindi

[Stormy Weather]

( look into a communication class for one thing }

Thanks for the tip. I'll try to remember that next time when I'm in hideous pain and patched up to the ECG.

And as for enjoying a better experience in life or trying anything sometime, please don't make patronising assumptions about me. Cheers. 

Subject, for me, closed.

[ChildOfTheLight]

But the lemmings will follow.  Remember that Benjamin Franklin said that "those who give up their freedom in favor of security don't deserve freedom."  I paraphrased. 

Cindi

It's actually more like, "Those who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security."  That's more like what's going on here.

But the real question is: What are you going to do about it?

At some point, the only thing to do is to refuse to go along.  I don't know if the US is there yet, but it's getting close.