Androgynes vs other Transgender Labels

[Kendall]

It has been argued 1) that androgynes are not transgender(ed) in that they do not change their gender but remain the gender they were born with, 2) that they are not ->-bleeped-<-s nor crossdressers in that they do not dress like the opposite sex but sometimes dress like both sexes at the same time, and 3) that if one defines androgyne as someone who identifies as being half man and half woman, that could be interpreted as meaning that the person is neither man nor woman since 50% is an insufficient percentage to define something either way. Curiously, if one were to combine these three contexts, an androgyne would not be a man, woman, TV (->-bleeped-<-), CD (CrossDresser), TG (TransGender and/or TransGenderist), nor TS (TransSexual). What they are, however, is uniquely unified human beings of a sort that has been revered in many cultures for many centuries.

Quote from http://androgyne.0catch.com/

What do you think of this rational?

[Casey]

What do you think of this rational?

Splunge.

1)It's true that we don't change our gender, but then again NOBODY DOES. I am transgendered in the sense that my gender doesn't match my sex. Is there a sex that matches my gender? Let's say that intersex (is that the correct form here?) is a sex and that it matches my gender. If I don't change my sex then I'm still TG (or TS, but I'll sidestep that debate). If I seek to change my sex then I would be TS. So androgynes are TG either by default or by choice.

2) A crossdresser or a ->-bleeped-<- would be a male man or a female woman who dresses to be the opposite sex. Hands up all androgynes who are male men or female women. Anybody? Hmm hmm hmm. Nobody? Yes, you in the back there. You're a male man or a female woman? Oh. Sorry. Scratch your nose on your own time.

3) I would say an androgyne is part man and part woman. That's sufficient to not be able to define an androgyne as a |man| or a |woman|.

By my reasoning we are TG. As I've said before I see androgyne as a "subset" of genderqueer which in turn is a "subset" of TG. But we are "something else", and you can say that sarcastically or not.

What they are, however, is uniquely unified human beings of a sort that has been revered in many cultures for many centuries.

OK, but I ain't drinkin' the Kool-Aid. And I would change "many" to "some". Let's be real here.

[chunk]

Sounds good to me. I'm not obsessed with gender. I'm just noticing that the entire world is.

Chunk.

[nigno]

1) that androgynes are not transgender(ed) in that they do not change their gender but remain the gender they were born with.
I believe sex is between the legs and gender between the ears so no, not sure about that.  trans=across, gender is headology. Across the, genders   
2) that they are not ->-bleeped-<-s nor crossdressers in that they do not dress like the opposite sex but sometimes dress like both sexes at the same time
Well, unisex items of clothing has been around for a while now
3) that if one defines androgyne as someone who identifies as being half man and half woman, that could be interpreted as meaning that the person is neither man nor woman since 50% is an insufficient percentage to define something either way.but also too much to dismiss it Curiously, if one were to combine these three contexts, an androgyne would not be a man, woman, TV (->-bleeped-<-), CD (CrossDresser), TG (TransGender and/or TransGenderist), nor TS (TransSexual).  I feel that I bridge the gender spectrum What they are, however, is uniquely unified human beings of a sort that has been revered in many cultures for many centuries.But in this world of capitalism, there is no time for that type of thinking

N

[Laurry]

I think this person was paid too much to say too little.

Still...I don't know (or care) if the term Transgendered applies to us other than to group us in a larger category that means "Gender and Sex doesn't match".  I try to live my life as I would like and allow others to do the same...how they dress, who they lust after...no big deal.  Who they are as a person is what's important.  An a-hole androgyne is just as bad as an a-hole man who is just as bad as an a-hole woman...doesn't matter what their gender, I don't want to be around them.

As long as people want to label things (and each other) so they can file them away in their proper cubbyholes, we will have to deal with labels.  For now, TG is as good as any, as far as I'm concerned.

.....Laurie

[Kendall]

First of all, I believe these are arguable points in that they are not accepted as facts, which is why I brought them up. Its a good set of things to take apart and discuss. And to figure out what has merit and what is plain made up or unrealistic.

1. Well I also agree with all the other writers in that the first sentence is incorrect logic. Even transsexuals or crossdressers do not change gender either. In fact cross dressers dont change gender. As far as I know only fluid persons change gender. And that the term Transgender refers to those that cross the sex/gender/gender role boundaries somehow. Not all genderqueer are transgender, but androgyne most of the time refers to non polar transgendered persons.

2. For the second point, sometimes I feel that dressing very masculine (like when I have worn a suit) is just as much cross dressing as when I wear a dress. Yes I agree that there has been Unisex items of clothing that have been around for ages. And although I do wear both extreme clothing from time to time, more androgynous items are more the norm for my comfort level. I can however wear both at different times for special occasions or to balance my emotions / personality.

3. Even if the percentage is an even 50 50, (I myself am little fluid and feel my percentage is made up differently then the 50 50). I have posted more of a 75F25M. More realistically it is more a 50F 25M 25N (N meaning Neutral/Androgynous). I am somewhat fluid in that the percentage changes slowly depending on the situation and as time goes by. After all, as I have stated before, when I was young I knew no gender. I still am at my best when I allow myself to explore the Male, female, and neutral/androgynous , to be able express and live as that which is in me. I know in my heart I will never be all male or all female, because that has never been what I desired. I am psychologically intersexed.

And the last sentence the writer wrote is a bit too much also to me. In that androgynes have been revered in many cultures for many centuries tells me the writer was trying to overkill a bit too much. Certainly some of the gods have a dual gender/sex roles. That may be what they are refering to. Having said that, the writer almost infers that androgynes should be revered just because some gods have also been androgyne. Now I may wish that I be revered in my own love relationship , but I dont think that includes any more than common respect from others.

[Shana A]

I think of my being androgyne as a subset or one of various possible ways to describe my being transgendered. I definitely identify as part of the tg community, and it has taken many years to come to think of myself as androgyne. In the end, it's simply another word or label to try and describe who I am inside, and that one word doesn't accurately describe my whole reality. A book might come a little closer and someday I should write it 

zythyra