Last group to come out to and not looking forward to it.

SarahM777 · January 14, 2011, 09:15:00 PM

Hello,
I have reach the point where my close friends and most of my relatives know that i am transgendered. But i know i have been avoiding dealing with the church i am going to right now. I have talked to 2 of the pastors (One of which was let go behind closed doors) and they have been great about it and we are all close friends. (They are father and son so its a bit different) But have not yet talked to the senior pastor or the elders at this point.
It is a Lutheran church Missouri synod, which is fairly rigid in their viewpoints. Even without dealing with this i am an outsider. I know part of the reason is i am asking way to many pointed questions about why we are doing the things we do in this church and why do we have all the rules and rituals that put a barrier between the people and God. I know this is part of the reason that i am there at this time someone has to confront these things.
Knowing how they deal with some issues i can not see this going well. I keep hoping that the people of the congregation will come to their senses but i also very aware of the fact that it was the religious leaders that gave Jesus the most grief.
I do go dressed in gender neutral clothing and have for over 15 years,and do have longer hair so they may already have a sense that there is something different which may also explain way at times i seem to be an outsider.
I know i do need to take this next step but i so need wisdom how to handle this. I do know that trying to use the bible on me as a weapon will not work so easily. I know the truth and all i need do is to stand on the truth.
If it does come down to being asked to that it may be that it is my time to leave sooo........

What a long strange trip its been

Jacquelyn · January 15, 2011, 01:47:15 AM

Sarah-

There have been quite a few threads posted in regards to different religions acceptance or rejection of individuals who are trans. Honestly, in my opinion (and that of some others here) I can not be bothered with people or religious establishments that are not loving and accepting of all people.

It sounds to me like the pastors in your congregation are not accepting and don't like anyone to question their interpretations of what is correct. Know that your relationship with God is special, and that irregardless of what others may try to teach you are a human being created with love and compassion. We are all different in some way or another, and that is what truly makes us special.

If they can not celebrate the diversity that we each have inside of us, then I pity them because they are certainly missing out.

I hope things look up for you.

Hugs,

Jackie

SarahM777 · January 16, 2011, 07:13:22 AM

Thank you Jackie,
I will spend some time reading through the other threads.
I do thank you as your post made me realize that i had not written it out of love but out of loneliness,fear anger and frustration. It was so wrong for me to do so. (I had 3 very bad days in a row and i can't stop crying for more then an hour or so and i am in soooooo much pain and i am just lashing out) Please forgive me it was so wrong.

Jacquelyn · January 16, 2011, 08:04:56 AM

Quote from: SarahM777 on January 16, 2011, 07:13:22 AM
Thank you Jackie,
I will spend some time reading through the other threads.
I do thank you as your post made me realize that i had not written it out of love but out of loneliness,fear anger and frustration. It was so wrong for me to do so. (I had 3 very bad days in a row and i can't stop crying for more then an hour or so and i am in soooooo much pain and i am just lashing out) Please forgive me it was so wrong.

Sarah,

You have every right to feel that way. I am sorry to hear how sad and isolated you have been feeling. I can only hope that you can find a way to find solace.

You seem like a wonderful person Sarah. I hope that your days will get better. Please know that we are here for you, whether your day be good or bad, to offer you the support you need.

I will keep you in my thoughts.

Hugs and Love,

Jacquelyn

ToriJo · January 16, 2011, 04:29:07 PM

Quote from: SarahM777 on January 16, 2011, 07:13:22 AM
Thank you Jackie,
I will spend some time reading through the other threads.
I do thank you as your post made me realize that i had not written it out of love but out of loneliness,fear anger and frustration. It was so wrong for me to do so. (I had 3 very bad days in a row and i can't stop crying for more then an hour or so and i am in soooooo much pain and i am just lashing out) Please forgive me it was so wrong.

As another Christian, I don't think you did anything inappropriate.

As for telling them, stay true to God, who loves us to live as we are. If they can't accept it, that is between them and God, because you've done your part - been truthful. If they can, that will be a wonderful thing indeed.

SarahM777 · January 17, 2011, 07:02:06 AM

Thank you,
I am feeling a bit better this morning. I think i know what set me off the past few days. I had been talking to one of the pastors who is a very good friend of mine I had talked to him about this a bit and he is very ok with it. I had even told him my real name but as i was looking at his face i realized he really did not understand what i was talking about. And it dawned on me i had never spoken to anyone else that has gone through the transgendered issues (Not even the therapist that i had seen about 5 years ago.) The second thing was that i was so...... close to finally take finish it and it dawned on me that right at that point the money issues starting coming up,insurance etc. and it has pushed me back to square two or three. The icing on the cake is that i am having very very deep feelings for him and i need to deal with my body first. I will leave it that here as that really should be on a different thread.
Hello Slanan,
I still have to learn to use the quote function.
God is just fine with me and the place that i feel the most feminine and free is when i spend time with Him.
I sometimes think that we get so wrapped up in reading the book and not spending time with the one whom the book is about and how He relates to us and spending time asking Him what it really means and then waiting for His answer.
I am one that does not like so called pat answers because they only deal with things on a surface level. He started taking me through it from a different point of view which just blew me away. The first thing was it a mental and emotional problem or a physical problem. The answer came when we were having a study on Romans and got to chapter 8 and we got to verses 18-25 and Paul talks about our bodies having a problem,that there is something wrong with them and they are literally crying out to beset free. I think this sounds a bit familiar. So then how do i deal with this?
There is no right or wrong answer because it's totally a personal matter between one person and God. It's as Paul states a disputable
matter and it needs to be left up the the person. For a person that is not transgendered to go through all the changes would be wrong but it's not wrong for a transgendered person to do so because they are fixing a physical problem.
I am beginning to realize i am going off on a tangent but i feel so strongly about this and i just need to share this as it helped me deal with where i am at.
On dealing with the others it was a check for me in that if i am not careful i can go down the same path and start hating them and not the behavior. It is so important to me that i become an example of what Jesus is like. One who loves all with no exception but also able to point out where it's not being lived up to. And if through this if even only one person can be reached it is one less that can continue rejecting others.

regan · January 17, 2011, 09:39:44 AM

Even within the same religion, different churches practice their beliefs differently. Also have you considered ELCA, its the same Lutheran, just more liberal. There are even churches within ELCA that are designated as "reconciled in christ" which means they are comitted to GLBT acceptance.

SarahM777 · January 17, 2011, 07:09:20 PM

Hello Regan,
Thank you for letting me know. It did remind me of something that happened Saturday. For the last 5 years i have been living with my folks as primary care giver. A little over 6 months ago my father had passed on and right now my mom is blind in one eye and has a problem with her inner ear that causes an imbalance so she doesn't drive. I have only been there about 5 years and she has been there close to 20 and this is where most of her friends still are so she is stilling getting some support from her friends.
I have been noticing a bit of a change in her as she seems to be getting a bit restless there also. On Saturday we went to one of the trade shows in our area and one of the dealers we have know fora long time also happens to be an ELCA pastor. I standing there as the two of them were talking and out of the blue she mention that if she had been alone she would have gone to the ELCA that's only a couple of miles from us. Which is a very big change for her as 5 years ago she would not have done it.
I just have to remember the 2 things i keep hearing again and again Trust me and Patience.
I will be gotten through this and it will all work out for good
Sarah

regan · January 18, 2011, 08:03:58 AM

Could the two of you go to the ELCA church this weekend, just to check things out? I was raised catholic, converted to ELCA and my (still) catholic parents go to my church whenever they're in town and love it.

SarahM777 · January 18, 2011, 10:31:50 PM

I had a very long talk today with my mom and she is not quite ready to do so yet. I did voice some of my concerns with her and let did let her know i was concerned about how it might affect her and she is going to be ok with it. Her and my father when he was an elder at another church had to deal with the fact that the pastor of that church was found out that he gay and they were good friends with him and it went down very very badly and they left shortly after wards. The good part is that she would support me and would go with me if it would go that far.
This morning i also had a very long talk with my pastor friend and he has been talking to me about his vision of what a church based on dealing with people the same way that Jesus dealt with people and both of us are seeing the same thing. We are both seeing a church that
reaches out to what most people would consider the outcasts, the lonely,the broken down,etc etc. The same type of groups of people that Jesus hung around with. I get the feeling he is getting ready to start one without all the legalistic and ritualistic trappings. And if he does so i know where i am to go.

Cindy · January 19, 2011, 02:06:19 AM

Dear Sarah,

I realise I am not qualified to give you advice. I gave up religion when I was told to confess my sin of being 'transgendered' as I suddenly saw that the beliefs of religion and my knowledge of myself were totally incompatible. None the less I do understand the comfort and support that many people receive, I also realise that religion is more than religion in many parts of the world including a lot of the USA. As an Australian I have to admit I don't understand that situation.

However what I wanted to say was that being true to your self and your beliefs are central tenets. No one understands TG other than TG people. Yes therapists can help us, but unless they are TG they don't understand. The sheer fact that your sex does not match your gender is utterly incomprehensible to others.

I remember the great actor Ian Mckillen, (Gandalf Lord of the Rings) who is openly gay, being interviewed. He was asked, "Are you surprised that straight people don't understand Gay people?" He replied, "Not in the least, I've never understood straight people."

I may be wrong, and I apologise if my comment is offensive, I get the impression that many of the "elders" or heads of local and even national and international religious communities gain a power over their congregations. Be it respect, standing in the community or deference in opinion (or worse

). I think that people in that position have very strong vested interests to not allow non-conformity to whatever is considered 'normal' in their society. If members of the community disagree, they loose power. So they will interpret whoever's teachings to balance the community opinion to either directly or indirectly to 'protect' themselves. This may be a totally unconscious act. But if you are a non-conformist in the society that they are in they have very little advantage in promoting you.

If the pastor explains your position and announces that God made Sarah to test our love in humanity, will there be Hallelujahs or stunned silence, or worse?

I'm sorry if the post was unhelpful. But I wanted to give my non-religious perspective to what is a very difficult topic for many TG people.

My Love
Cindy

spacial · January 19, 2011, 03:50:22 AM

I find myself in complete agreement with Cindy's comments.

That's it, in a nutshell!

SarahM777 · January 19, 2011, 08:02:10 PM

Hello Cindy,
It's a good thing to talk to someone who has a different perspective because they often see things that someone in the situation can not see.
I was not offended,so please don't worry. I am seeing to much of the same thing. I do know that i am a bit of a dreamer and i just believe things could be so much better. I just don't get why people feel the need to cut each other down,judge others,or to physically hurt someone else. It shouldn't be this way. Sometimes we all need a shoulder to cry on,some one to just walk with us for a while,some one to talk to or someone to help pick us up and just encourage us. We need each other and the differences that others bring can often be good things. If we were all the same life would be so dull and boring and a lot of things would not get done. I know i am starting to ramble on a bit.

I think sometimes the hardest thing we do is to try to be what others think we should be so we start loosing ourselves and if we go to far
it can break us inside and then we wake and end up hating ourselves and what we have become and then it take so long to find the real person deep inside. This is just my opinion.

I love the Lord of the Rings movies. He is such a good actor and that is something i never knew but what he said makes so much sense.

Thankfully with my friend it would not be something that would be required to do. If the person that is speaking is ok with it and is ready to handle it fine. Some things just do not need to be shouted out in front of the congregation. If someone talks to me about something i can't relate to but i know someone else that has dealt with it wouldn't it make more sense to introduce the two to each other?

I don't know if this makes any sense,i just wish it could be better.

SarahM777 · January 21, 2011, 10:43:27 PM

Yesterday i got an answer about where the denomination stands and its pretty much along the lines of how they view homosexuals. Not unexpected. But i am finding i am not angry with them but i am finding i am getting angry with myself. What can they really do that i that is so much different then what i have already gotten. I am worrying about something that i have already been through. I mean it just seems like i have had just about everything thrown at me i have already been through the viscous verbal abuse,physical abuse,sexual abuse,had someone try to kill me on 3 seperate occasions and a sister that was going to help me through this and she betrayed me. What more can anyone really do to me?
And after all this i am still standing. I am starting to realize dog gone it all girl there is one very tough lady underneath the surface START ACTING LIKE IT (without loosing my basic nature) and quit feeling sorry for yourself. Get on with it and quit worrying about what others may think. And should they reject me what have i really lost? But should they accept me that would be better.
I have come to far to turn back now

SarahM777 · January 30, 2011, 08:43:58 PM

Today was a happy day today.
Finally got the courage up to talk to the senior pastor and it went far better then i had hoped. In between the first service and bible class i came up and asked him where he was at about transgendered people and he came out and said it was a physical problem and not a sin. I then let him know that i also was dealing with it and he just looked at me with what appeared to be so much compassion that i hadn't seen in a very long time. I did tell him i did not know where this was leading. (I know i am hoping that it is finally time for my transition but the doors have been closed as of yet.)
At this point i went out to get a cup of coffee and as i was on my way back i ended up talking to him a bit longer and for some reason we got to the point where i let him know if he knew of anyone else that was dealing with this in the church that i would be willing to talk to them if they wanted to. Sometimes it a bit easier to talk to someone else that is dealing with the same thing.
So all in all i have been so happy today i have been bouncing around like a little kid

ToriJo · January 30, 2011, 09:19:21 PM

Wow, sounds like it went great!

While it's easy to think a pastor might represent the most hard core element of the group, I've found that the good ones have interacted with enough people to realize the world isn't quite black and white, and that you need to be very careful with condemnation and going beyond what scripture actually says.

I imagine a huge weight was lifted off your shoulders and you saw evidence of grace. Jesus said, "For my yoke is easy and my burden is light" - which is one test of whether someone is giving you godly counsel or not. It sounds like this pastor did good.

Cindy · January 31, 2011, 03:52:33 AM

Sarah,
The situation sounds interesting and hopeful. Be very careful. You may be in the process of being set up. Sorry I have bad feelings about some things. I hope they are wrong.

Love
Cindy

SarahM777 · January 31, 2011, 07:22:46 AM

It did feel like that weight was removed,but i do also realize that for me it is going to take a bit longer to reach the goal because what is going to work best for me is to take it slow but steady. It's like i am given the next step and once i have taken that step and have gotten more confident then i can see the next step. I keep getting 3 things going through my mind, "Patience,Trust Me and For you this is going to be a process" It was just a very small step and i still have a very long journey ahead.

Cindy,
I do know i have to be very very careful. There are just some people i can not trust across the street with even a 10 lb bag of fertilizer. I live in a semi suburban and rural area. Some of the area does have police protection in the towns but it's mostly the sheriffs department and it could take a lone time for them to get there so.....
I do have certain ground rules that if they are not followed it's not going anywhere. I had to learn a very hard lesson and it was at the hands of someone i thought i could trust. I had ignored the warning signs (They were there but i chose not to listen) It was very bad but it could have been much worse than what it was. The part that hurt the worst was that it was one of my sister's that did it. The warning signs are there for a reason and they are there for my own protection and i need to listen.
I just need to take things slow and be cautious and i should be ok.

News:

Last group to come out to and not looking forward to it.