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Rethinking transgender language

Started by Nygeel, February 18, 2011, 08:53:41 PM

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Ashleyjadeism

I dont care what people call me... As long as isnt meant as an insult and even then it doesnt bother me that bad...

I dont idemtify as transgender, mtf, or any of that... I identify as Ashley (or A.J. Depending on the situation) and as "me" and that's it...
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Kendall

I really appreciate the different points of view - they invite me to think, to wonder, to expand my mind. Also it helps me clarify things. For example, I like differentiating the use of labels to "describe" a process or pattern of behaviors (useful) versus the use of labels to "identify" a person or yourself (limiting at best - damaging at worst).

I like "mtf" for myself, because to me it describes in shorthand the process I am going through. It does not imply an endpoint to me; it is more of a "vector", a direction of movement with an indeterminate endpoint. I could be mtf androgynous, or pro-op trans-sexual or  trans-sexual, two-spirit, or just really, really feminine - I am exploring. The language is comforting to the extent it confirms I am experiencing something know to exist, something like what others experience. I am not crazy for feeling the way I do. (I may be crazy for other reasons, but not this).

But at the end of the day, it is all just labels, verbal symbols of complex things that words can only point to and never adequately define or contain. Just artificial, incomplete and inadequate markers that we use for convenience.

Words are only useful if we do not take them too seriously.

And if we occasionally remind others not to take them seriously. People do sometimes use limiting and pejorative labels to harm.

Kendall
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PixieBoy

I think that, well, it gets bad when there is only a word for the "weirdo". It used to be that there was trans people, and people. With the word cis, then both trans and "normal" people get their own cathegory. It's similar to the expression neurotypical (NT) that is used by some autistic people for the "normal" people. Both aspies and enties (NT's), both cis and trans. Nobody is singled out as that "weirdo", both have a word for what they are. I'm sorry if I explain it in a weird way, I can't really think right now.
...that fey-looking freak kid with too many books and too much bodily fat
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Nygeel

PixieBoy, do you mean sort of holding cis and neurotypical people as the ideal? Like that a cis person is a woman, but a trans person is a trans woman. That trans-ness is based off "not trans-ness."
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Pinkfluff

Quote from: Nygeel on February 18, 2011, 08:53:41 PM
Anybody else have ideas for language that could be changed, or used differently?

Yeah I don't like any of the "trans" terms either. It implies that a person is in between two things, either permanetly or while moving from one to the other, neither of which apply to me. I'm not changing anything or part one gender and part another, I'm just a woman with a condition. This condition is not part of who I am any more than having a cold is.

The "assigned at birth" terminology is a little better since it's at least accurate, but it someone else's assignment of anything to me is meaningless unless I choose to accept their assignment.

As far as pronouns, I just use plural pronouns if I'm not sure which singular one to use, or if I need one that can refer to either gender. I think it is less offensive than it and less awkward than some of the invented pronouns I've seen.
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PixieBoy

To me, there needs to be a word for "both" sides. If there is only a word for the "weirdo", then that makes it into a "you're a freak, we're so normal we don't even need a word to express what we are, it's so blindingly obvious" kind of situation. Sorry if I'm explaining it oddly. That is why words like cis needs to exist, words like neurotypical. It's dangerous when there is only a word for the "weirdo". I don't think that cis or neurotypical are better than trans or autism-spectric, I just think that there needs to be a word for both sides.

A cis woman is not trans, a trans woman is not cis. By using the word cis, I make sure that the cis woman is not just woman, because if there were only trans women and women, then that would imply that trans women are a special kind of women. By using cis-, I make a cathegory for, well, cis people as well. Mostly I refer to people as men/women, only pointing out if they're trans or cis if it's relevant. It's the same with wether someone is NT or AS (autism spectric), it usually is irrevelant so I don't say it.

I'm sorry if this is incomprehensible, I'm in a pretty weird state of mind at the moment, I hope I haven't inconvenienced anyone.
...that fey-looking freak kid with too many books and too much bodily fat
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Almond

the trans- prefix should stay. trans people don't have to present as trans all the time, but there are medical and political reasons that it's a good thing to keep around. i think there are also personal identity issues to think about. a trans person is more likely than a cis person to understand differences of gender, and that's a valuable thing to have.
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Nygeel

Quote from: Almond on February 20, 2011, 12:57:42 PM
the trans- prefix should stay. trans people don't have to present as trans all the time, but there are medical and political reasons that it's a good thing to keep around. i think there are also personal identity issues to think about. a trans person is more likely than a cis person to understand differences of gender, and that's a valuable thing to have.
Could you explain yourself further?
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Dana Lane

Sometimes labels are a necessary evil. If you are going to lobby for specific rights you can't simply say 'for the ashley's in the U.S. You have to be specific so that everyone knows what you are talking about. The PC word transgender also just adds to the confusion.  Why does someone who is transgender need GRS they think. They go look it up and find various flavored groups of people there.  Crossdressers need surgery? No, they don't. Actually transsexuals/intersex do. Oh well why didn't you say so? So the word transgender is used everywhere but you have to look at the context of what is being said and have an intimate knowledge of the word to know if they are talking about transsexual or something else.  Frustrating.
============
Former TS Separatist who feels deep regret
http://www.transadvocate.com/category/dana-taylor
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Emmanuelle

my two cents...

Basically I don't like any of the words (trans-, MTF...) but they do help in this period of my life to explain to others in what spot I am. Once this period of transition is gone, I could only live with one designation: woman. There would be no trans, cis... anymore. So I guess what I'm saying is that any choice of words which helps to explain or frame a thought or concept is basically a good one. If today it helps others to call me trans-something, I'm fine with that. I for one know who I am: a woman. Always have been and always will be. It's up to me to find my place in society and blend in the way it was supposed to be.

Love,
Emma
Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending.
- Maria Robinson
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Pica Pica

Don't get andros involved in this conversation - they just use words as appeal to them at the time.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Nygeel

Quote from: Dana Lane on February 20, 2011, 02:17:27 PM
Crossdressers need surgery? No, they don't. Actually transsexuals/intersex do. Oh well why didn't you say so?
Not all transsexuals nor do all intersex people need or want surgery.
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Dana Lane

Quote from: Nygeel on February 20, 2011, 06:12:49 PM
Not all transsexuals nor do all intersex people need or want surgery.

My point was no crossdressers need GRS.
============
Former TS Separatist who feels deep regret
http://www.transadvocate.com/category/dana-taylor
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Nygeel

Quote from: Dana Lane on February 20, 2011, 06:24:33 PM
My point was no crossdressers need GRS.
Some might, I tend to not throw around absolutes.
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Dana Lane

Quote from: Nygeel on February 20, 2011, 06:33:28 PM
Some might, I tend to not throw around absolutes.

If you can throw me a case where a crossdresser requires surgery I will consider that.
============
Former TS Separatist who feels deep regret
http://www.transadvocate.com/category/dana-taylor
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Nygeel

Quote from: Dana Lane on February 20, 2011, 07:02:37 PM
If you can throw me a case where a crossdresser requires surgery I will consider that.
My belief is that lines aren't so harshly drawn and that maybe some crossdressers have some dysphoria. I know of a few butch identified women who have had chest surgery. They don't self identify as crossdressers but it could be argued that being assigned female at birth while having the identity of a woman and wearing clothing typically associated with the opposite sex...well, it's a stretch but that could be considered crossdressing.
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Almond

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 20, 2011, 03:28:17 PM
Don't get andros involved in this conversation - they just use words as appeal to them at the time.

that's rude. all of us are here because we have GID. androgynous people just confront it differently than transsexuals.
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Rock_chick

Quote from: Almond on February 21, 2011, 12:11:19 PM
that's rude. all of us are here because we have GID. androgynous people just confront it differently than transsexuals.

No, merely amusing, and despite the flippancy makes a valid point...words are merely labels and their usages can and do change ove time.

Now, y'all play nice now.
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rejennyrated

And besides - Pica Pica as a fully paid up androgyne is fully entitled to say something about androgynes.
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Apricot

What's ironic is that the terms that are used to define us today were created during a time when little was known gender identity disorder at all. As time has gone by, these terms have inevitably become out dated. It makes more sense for me to consider Gender Identity Disorder to be something of an intersex condition. Because of the porn industry, the distance between ->-bleeped-<- and transgender is much shorter than the distance between transgender and intersex. I don't think this properly reflects the gender dysphoria condition. From a social perspective, the most common trans-misconceptions come from the fact that general 'lay' people seem to think that ->-bleeped-<- is a sexual issue rather than a gender issue.

So what do we do? Simple - drop this whole 'trans' business and just understand that we're just 'people' with gender identity disorder. That's the only single thing that we all have in common. There are infinite ways to treat this condition, and if we gave a label for every treatment, we'd be here forever.
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