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I just can’t really tell who’s like… seriously transgendered

Started by Father Way, March 23, 2011, 03:09:43 AM

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N.Chaos

Quote from: yoxi on March 23, 2011, 03:58:41 AM

Semi-serious point I'm making - I know there are documented accounts of men in the UK deliberately becoming HIV+ because they were isolated and/or socially awkward and were attracted to the support network they perceived HIV+ men as having access to.


Say WHAT?
Oh, that's just twisted. Reminds me of this one girl on Deviantart who seems to almost glorify AIDS. All her little OC-characters have AIDS. And drug addictions. And melodramatically tragic backstories.
It's actually kind of disgusting.
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Kohitsu

Quote from: Sean on March 23, 2011, 10:57:05 AM
I don't think it is actually a "trend" until we have proof of actual transitions, rather than trans identification.

When you say "actual transitions," I'm assuming you mean medical (hormone therapy/surgery) transition. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I just wanted to point out that no matter what stage you are at in your transition or how you handle your transition (HRT and top/bottom surgery, just top surgery, just HRT, being non-op for any reason be it financial issues, against your moral compass or religious beliefs, unable to seek help, etc etc), doesn't make you any less valid as being transgender than the next person. Yes, there are supposedly "posers" out there, but each person is choosing to transition for one reason or another. It can be difficult to pick out who is doing it sincerely or is doing it for attention, but if your transition is very important to you, should it really matter whether or not someone else around the block is as serious about their transition? Stop focusing on others and focus on yourself, your well being, and your personal goals and maybe there would be less "posers" or people trying to fit into a trend just because "it's cool and everyone else is doing it". I hope I haven't offended anyone, just stating my opinion.
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Sean

Quote from: Kohdy on March 23, 2011, 01:22:53 PM
When you say "actual transitions," I'm assuming you mean medical (hormone therapy/surgery) transition. Please correct me if I am wrong.
]

You have misunderstood me.

When I say "actual transitions," I do NOT mean medical transition.

I am referring to what most people would consider "Full-time" or "RLE" of living in the transitioned sex.

It does not take hormones or surgery to do this. It doesn't even necessarily require a full and comprehensive legal recognition of the new sex (in part because that's not always possible).

You can be trans or have a trans identity without transitioning. I'm sure there are a lot of people like that. And there is no magic moment of transition or "done" clock that tells you "a-ha! now you have transitioned."

But there is no "trend of transitioners" without people who are actually transitioned and living on the other side of the binary (and of course not everyone has to accept or adopt the binary anyway).

I don't view most young people who wish to transition or begin steps toward a more male presentation as actually living as the other sex, not because they lack medical transition, but because they lack most steps of social transition. They are typically not attending schools as male, and they are often not even out to their families or friends or social networks. Transition may be a goal or a wish or a desire. It isn't their reality, no matter what haircut they have.
In Soviet Russa, Zero Divides by You!
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Kohitsu

Ok thank you for clarifying. I'm not familiar with these young people who are "transition-trending" because I don't seek them out myself, and don't understand the concept of how it could be a trend in the first place.
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asher

Quote from: cynthialee on March 23, 2011, 10:10:24 AM
It doesn't matter who is trans and who is confussed.
We all have a life path to walk, things we need to learn and do to fulfil our lifes mission.
Those who detransition, and those who relise they are not trans somewhere along the way, all needed to learn something from this journey.
Regardless of the reasons someone starts to transition, they will learn some incredible life lessons that can only be learned by walking this path.
^Very well put cynthialee. I suppose it's not really our job to judge is it? :)
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insideontheoutside

Interesting. I just came over here after reading this article a friend sent me:

Gender bending: let me count the ways
http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/gender_bending_let_me_count_the_ways/

And instead of posting a new topic, I'll just throw it into here because it kinda fits.

On one side, I think it's important for people to just be themselves - to be allowed to be themselves (so long as it doesn't involve anything illegal or hurting someone else) and like other people have said here already, your mind changes all the time about who you ARE. We're all in a state of evolution (or we should be) in that we're trying to be the best people we can be ... we're trying to be happy, etc. If someone feels they are trans but then realize that their mind or viewpoint changes, that's part of personal evolution. This is part of the reason why I hate labels at all.

That article mentions something like 23 different "variations" of "gender" among other points. Personally, I feel that some of the classifications are more sexual fetish than they are gender choice. It'd be like comparing "furries" to transsexuals ... or not really comparing but lumping them in the same category - which obviously they are not. I don't have any kind of personal problem if someone wants to be a furry ... or if someone wants to call themselves pansexual or whatever. You can all yourself a purple potato and I'll be like, "ok, if that makes you happy, then by all means go for it". But I can also see the realistic viewpoint in that there's a ton of levels where gender applies in society - we're not there as a culture, race, society, etc. for all of us to accept it all. I can also see how some people actually mistake trans(gender/sexual) for a fetish rather than a condition.

Now, getting back to the original, "I just can't really tell who's like... seriously transgendered". For me, personally, I always had a problem with being called transsexual (although I've been called transgendered by psychologists as well - seemed to shift based on their own personal viewpoint as to what they'd "diagnose" me as) because it is a construct of the psychological field in the way it is classed "medically". So is homosexuality if you want to get right down to it. By that I mean that at a point in time, psychologists had deemed that to be a disease - an abnormality - a disorder. Unlike a medical doctor diagnosing a disease of the body, we have psychologists basically judging other people based on the way their minds work - the way they feel love - the way they view their own body. These are not diseases to me. It's not like schizophrenia or other detrimental psychological conditions. You're not crazy if you feel you were "born in the wrong body" but psychologists for a very long time classified it as crazy (probably still are some today that do as well).

That bit about psychology is just my opinion of course. I realize that the field DOES help some people. I'm also fully aware that without a diagnosis one can not peruse things like HRT, surgery, etc. I know that many are actually relieved when they get a diagnosis such as being transsexual because it "fits" - it makes sense of why things were not "normal" for them for however much time passed before they sought help and it's the 1st step in doing what we now all call "transition". But there is a detrimental side to it imo. I'm not one of those people who were helped at all by it, so yeah I have that different viewpoint but can at least acknowledge that it works for some people. Everyone is different.

I can't "tell" who's transgendered either - especially on the internet where anyone can basically be anything they want. On a personal level, it might not matter to me. Because psychology is involved, because being trans effects everything about someone's life from their interaction with their families to their work to the laws that effect them, it does matter.

I'm in between in trying to digest some of the points brought up in that linked article for example. It seems a great many things are in flux, some things are beneficial, some are detrimental when it comes to gender and acceptance.

In regards to the trend thing - someone else brought up when they were growing up there was no trend of emo or cutting yourself. I can totally relate to this because not only did that not exist when I was growing up but transition itself was not a well-known thing. It was a very rare thing and I don't think I even became aware of it until I was well into my 20s. Would I have opted for something like that had I known about it when I was 14? I can't really say because my 14 year old mind was a lot different from my mind now. I knew a lot less things about the world and myself and I can definitely admit that I made a lot of other ignorant decisions about other things at that age so I'm kind of thankful in a way it wasn't an option to me early on.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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Mark

idk about trans trending, but i do think some people get over excited and start physically transitioning before they are ready for it.
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Kohitsu

Quote from: Mark on March 23, 2011, 04:42:55 PM
idk about trans trending, but i do think some people get over excited and start physically transitioning before they are ready for it.

Yeah I've noticed some of this sometimes, not so much the "trans-trend" stuff...
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Arch

Quote from: Birgitta on March 23, 2011, 08:43:53 AM
I would actually like to be normal, but not for those ignorant people.
And well... it's too late to be normal anyway.

When I said something to my therapist about wanting to be normal, he said, "You ARE normal--you're a normal transsexual."

Sometimes, in my darker moments, I still think that's an oxymoron, but I get his point.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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kimberrrly

Quote from: Kohdy on March 23, 2011, 01:22:53 PM
When you say "actual transitions," I'm assuming you mean medical (hormone therapy/surgery) transition. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I just wanted to point out that no matter what stage you are at in your transition or how you handle your transition (HRT and top/bottom surgery, just top surgery, just HRT, being non-op for any reason be it financial issues, against your moral compass or religious beliefs, unable to seek help, etc etc), doesn't make you any less valid as being transgender than the next person. Yes, there are supposedly "posers" out there, but each person is choosing to transition for one reason or another. It can be difficult to pick out who is doing it sincerely or is doing it for attention, but if your transition is very important to you, should it really matter whether or not someone else around the block is as serious about their transition? Stop focusing on others and focus on yourself, your well being, and your personal goals and maybe there would be less "posers" or people trying to fit into a trend just because "it's cool and everyone else is doing it". I hope I haven't offended anyone, just stating my opinion.


I TOTALLY agree with you 100%!
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insideontheoutside

Quote from: Caleb Jeremy on March 23, 2011, 05:24:23 PM
I agree with the folks who say that transition should remain a little more difficult to access.

I've been living as a guy since October 2009. So...it'll be about two years of RLE before I actually start T. Now, I am just as trans as I was two years ago but I have evolved SUBSTANTIALLY. If I had been able to take T two years ago I would not have been ready emotionally. I can't say what effect it would have on me, probably still good as I am a true transsexual, been approved for T without question by...like 7 people in total? medical and psychological doctors. So T may have been beneficial at the time in some ways, but having this waiting period has allowed me to evolve as a man, as a person.

Sadly, I have had the very unsettling feeling that there is somewhat of an FTM trend going on. I hate that because I feel like I am discrediting others' feelings and identities but I think there are people who transition who would never have even wanted to live as men if they didn't know the option was there. I wanted to be a man with everything I had, and as soon as I learned that the option was there it was like a dream come true. It wasn't an option, it was the answer.

You bring up a really good point - "transition should remain a little more difficult to access." I'd actually add the word medical in front of transition there. I'm sure a lot of people would have a difference of opinion on that but it's just like in the article I posted in my earlier response - it's kind of a "where do we draw a line" question. I think we're all well aware of how much variation there is out there but what about legal and safety issues? I don't think it's necessarily discrediting others feelings and identities, but there does need to be the system of checks and balances. There's laws and rules and all that for a reason.

Although I don't personally agree that being "trans" is a mental disorder or disease of any sort (I think it's a perfectly natural human variation and occurrence), it's not "normal" as viewed by the bulk of society and its bi-gender rules and therefore we all have to deal within those. Also, without some sort of medical diagnosis it's even hard to do a RLE thing. I know some have and then there's people like me who kind of walk the line or just choose to be androgynous to most of society without taking medical or legal steps to transition, but I'm sure certain situations can get difficult. Work, travel, etc. You get "caught" using a women's restroom and you have a male body (or vice versa) can get you in trouble. If you have a letter from a psychologist that you're doing RLE and have a diagnosis, that can get you out of trouble.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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wheat thins are delicious

Quote from: Mark on March 23, 2011, 04:42:55 PM
idk about trans trending, but i do think some people get over excited and start physically transitioning before they are ready for it.

can you elaborate on this? 


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NightWing

People will use anything to be "special" and "unique" (which includes being anorexic, bisexual, or having any sort of a mental disorder)  "Being trans" is no different.  Those fakers tend to be extremely annoying and sometimes it is hard to pick them out.  I've seen this first hand and it's extremely sad.  They tend to be very dramatic and love to draw in attention because they cannot handle their real issues (most people who do fake disorders and such normally have a different kind of problem, so that problem gets pushed back to make room for the fake problem): so it puts a bad name on everyone else who can't see (or know) the difference.  It also makes the real problem fester...so it's just a cycle.
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wheat thins are delicious

Quote from: Rain on March 23, 2011, 08:08:11 PM
Being anorexic, being bisexual, having any sort of mental disorder, it's all just dumb fads some people use to try to get attention or feel special.  "Being trans" is no different.  Those people are extremely annoying and sometimes it is hard to pick them out.  I've seen this first hand and it's extremely sad.  They tend to be very dramatic and love to draw in attention: so it puts a bad name on everyone else who can't see (or know) the difference.

lol r u srs? 


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Darrin Scott

I don't know about the others, but being bisexual kind-of is a trend. It can make it harder for people who are actually bisexual to come out. Well, that among other reasons....





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mL

Quote from: Rain on March 23, 2011, 08:08:11 PM
Being anorexic, being bisexual, having any sort of mental disorder, it's all just dumb fads some people use to try to get attention or feel special.  "Being trans" is no different.  Those people are extremely annoying and sometimes it is hard to pick them out.  I've seen this first hand and it's extremely sad.  They tend to be very dramatic and love to draw in attention: so it puts a bad name on everyone else who can't see (or know) the difference.

so legitimately having low self confidence, feeling desires for both sexes, being born with a mental disorder, or struggling with gender identity makes a person one who "loves to draw in attention"?
you might want to reword this.
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NightWing

Quote from: Andy8715 on March 23, 2011, 08:37:10 PM
lol r u srs?

Yeah I am.  Say, a young girl goes online, seeing the word "transsexual" and then she goes "Hm, wonder what that is!"  So she googles it, and goes "Wow!  I must be transsexual because I hate my period too!"  So then she tries to get all involved, gets support, cuts her hair, "becomes" attracted to girls, insists everyone call her a "he", and loudly lets everyone who she is a proud transsexual and has embraced her manhood.  She complains all the time about being called a girl and having breasts and colors "->-bleeped-<- Pride!" on her notebooks and all that.  This goes on until time passes and she matures and realizes she really isn't a transsexual at all (the fad goes away).  So she just goes on with life as a normal female from then on.  I know it seems like she could have been, but it's often really hard to tell.  So, nothing you can do about it really.  They have to just grow up until they mature or can face the actual issue. (And no offensive to people who are doing this/did this.  I'm only talking about the fakers.  Everybody is different in how they discovered themselves, and if you went through this exactly then more power to you.)

Quote from: mL on March 23, 2011, 09:02:01 PM
so legitimately having low self confidence, feeling desires for both sexes, being born with a mental disorder, or struggling with gender identity makes a person one who "loves to draw in attention"?
you might want to reword this.

Oh no, I just meant for those few who fake it to draw attention. 
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Wraith

It's like with everything else, there's always a bunch of asses giving the larger group a bad name.
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Mark

Quote from: Andy8715 on March 23, 2011, 07:24:17 PM
can you elaborate on this? 

What I meant by this was that sometimes people will read about being transgendered and instantly think its the right choice for them. Such as gettin on T and getting top surgery before really taking time to think about it for more then a few months. I have known a few people who THOUGHT they were trans, but later realized they were not trans but just a masc women or fem male. Sometimes people confuse the two in the race to find themselves. If those people were to have jumped on T and having surgery before sitting down and really understanding themselves, they might have made a mistake for them personally. When people start HRT and later ask questions that they should have researched way before they even thought about HRT (such as effects and perm changes), i think they may have jumped the gun.

Quote from: Fumbling Towards Ecstasy on March 23, 2011, 08:39:38 PM
I don't know about the others, but being bisexual kind-of is a trend. It can make it harder for people who are actually bisexual to come out. Well, that among other reasons....

I def agree with you on this one. It was a BIG thing back in at my high school, mostly females though.
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Padma

Reading back over this, I'm finding myself wanting to make a further distinction. I'm not that comfortable with the term "faker" - I get that there are a small number of people who get into things because they need the attention; or because they need to divert the attention away from something else they can't cope with right now (and I think coping strategies are not to be dismissed, they got most of us as far as we are today!) and I think "faker" is pretty harsh, but I can see how it fits from the point of view of people genuinely dealing with gender issues who are frustrated with being lumped in with the above.

But I think there's a category we've been referring to here of people who are in some way genderfluid, but aren't ready to do more than dip their toes into it and see how it feels; and that's not "faking" in my book, so I've decided to take a stab at coining a new term for them: how do you like "gendercurious"? :)
Womandrogyne™
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