Questions about Binding:

[Cameron]

My friend and I are going to try and attempt at making me pass... because I really want to know if I can. I can't pass full time (not even allowed to cut my hair. And I'm not going to get my parents that angry at me). He really wants to help me out with this, and so this is the first step.

I don't know my chest size mainly because I don't have measuring tape and have never worn a bra, but I assume I am a large A or a small B. Overall I have a smallish frame and am only 5'7" and 140lbs, so I probably will need a smaller binder. I will be finding out all that in the next week at a friend's house.

I'm thinking about getting an Underworks binder, largely because I've heard that they work well and they are only $30. How uncomfortable are they? How well do they actually work? Is there something else for less that works as well or better?

And something else I've been wondering: I _really_ want to transition, but I do not know if I will actually be able to. And I've read many places that wearing binders all the time softens and flattens the breasts by deterioration of tissue. Really? I don't want that to happen for personal reasons (mainly if I can't transition or something like that) How often would you recommend wearing a binder for the least amount of tissue damage?

>_>

[EmergeAndSeeExit]

First off: Underworks binders are probably your best bet. No matter what you use, it isn't going to be 'comfortable.' That's kind of inherent in what you're doing. The word 'binding' doesn't make me think 'huh, that sounds like it'll feel good!' But...Underworks has been the most comfortable binder that I have used so far. I'm not looking for anything else and planning on buying another one soon.

Problems I've had with Underworks are: maybe I got too small a size (make sure you really do get the corresponding size that will FIT your chest. Don't think to yourself "maybe if I go an inch smaller it will bind better," especially if you're worried about deterioration.) but when I first got it - and I've heard this from a lot of guys - man, it was HARD to get on. And once I did get it on, I wasn't sure I was going to be able to get it off. But, of course, I figured it out eventually. You'll hear from nearly everyone to make sure you pull the binder up like a pair of pants and to take it off the same way. Ethan'll say 'make sure you put your boxers on after you put your binder on' but I'll say 'maybe you don't wear boxers.' I'm more of a boxer-briefs kind of guy (hey, keeps the packer in there tight) and I put my binder on AFTER I put my underwear on.

Anyway, I also had a huge problem with my binder in the beginning because it was digging into my skin - up to the point where I was bleeding....but it binded so well that I wasn't going to stop using it. I put band-aids where it hurt and got over it. After I washed the binder a few times, it wasn't a problem anymore. If you can sew, I would maybe advise you to put a strip of fabric around the sleeves, neckline and bottom of the binder. Might help you out. I know I was in quite a bit of pain the first few weeks.

The binders will roll up....and it's really annoying to figure out a way to keep them from doing that. I tuck it into my underwear, and now I don't have to constantly readjust it.

Oh, if you have dry skin...a binder will definitely make it worse. So lotion dude, and a lot of it. Maybe even if you don't have particularly dry skin.

More on deterioration: True. Totally. In fact, I've been binding constantly for half a year now. My girlfriend just started urging me to take my binder off at night because even though constant binding makes it easier to bind (because of deterioration), it also makes surgery a lot trickier. And I'm definitely looking to have that (in just another year, actually). So if you're way way worried about deterioration I would say...don't wear the binder at night. I guess if you can handle not wearing it during the day you shouldn't but, man, I just don't see how that's possible. Being trans is like opening Pandora's box for most people. It's really, really hard to not dress to pass once you know you can. I started being "full time" a month and a half after I came out to my parents. There is absolutely NOTHING that could put me back into that box. (It feels absolutely amazing to be out, too, man. So work on figuring out your options.)

Anyway, though, I actually looked at my chest today because I slept with my binder off and noticed things are getting kinda droopy, not looking like they used to. Nearly worries be since I'm looking to have keyhole surgery.

So I'm going to ask why you think you won't be able to transition. If I ask how old you are those crazy mods will edit our posts because I'm guessing you aren't 18+ yet, since the parents seem to be a problem in silly situations like hair length. I'd say...go as short as you can go without it being a problem. I'd also say, hey, be a rebel and cut it all off. But me, I'm a rebel. That's what I did though. Why the hell should you ASK PERMISSION TO CUT YOUR OWN HAIR? You pay for it or get a friend to do it and it's no longer their business. Your body. And you're the one who has to live in it, or with it, so you better settle in and make yourself as comfortable as possible until hormones/surgery. Even if you're still in high school or whatever. Who cares? High school's ridiculous and it sounds like you already have some friends who are backing you. I say go for it. Others will say use caution.

If you're right, you'll agree with me.

And dude, 5'7/140lbs is something I can only dream to be. I'm sitting over here at 5'3, 5'4 on a good day and not even weighing enough to give blood. I've only not passed once...for almost a year now. And that's when I was with a big group of gay friends. Most of the guys were femme and most of the girls were butch. So someone just thought I was a lesbian. That was a really weird situation for me. At the same time, maybe 5 minutes after that happened, my next door neighbor for maybe 4-5 years when I was a kid (who I saw very coincidentally) saw me, didn't recognize me, and called me sir.

Moral of the story? I don't know. You can't tell your femme friends to be butchier and you shouldn't tell your butch friends to be femme...ier...but just know that it's a possibility that when you're around feminine men and rather masculine women, and that's a known fact, then if you look like a guy people may assume you're a dyke. Strange logic but hey, strange logic for an even stranger world.

[Dennis]

Couldn't have said it better. Underworks is probably the least uncomfortable of the options, but still not great. And don't get too small. I made that mistake too. Wound up giving my first ones away they were so uncomfortable.

Dennis

[Cameron]

Holy Crap, that was a ton of information. But very, very helpful and very useful.

I'm 17. My parents are gonna help me through college with a place to stay, and helping me with payment (since they make some money). Cutting my hair without their permission (and let me say, it took my sister over a year of begging to let them let her cut her hair to shoulder length), and if I went behind their backs, they definitely would not be happy about it and wondering what else I'm doing behind their backs (Nothing, though, so eh) and I definitely would not have the freedom I have now.

My parents are _very_ against the fact that I am a guy. Like, to the point that they try and force me to buy feminine clothing every time I buy something (they never win, though. > ) They want me to be their little precious baby angel thing. They constantly tell me what a cute girl I was when I was little, and how feminine I was. My Mom even had the nerve to tell me that every day since she knew I was conceived she prayed for a girl, and I was God's gift to her. Are they trying to make me mad?! But I digress. My entire family is very religious, except my one Grandma, and she'd probably be the only one that doesn't ostracize me. But even then, I don't know how she would take it. I was her first grandkid and I'm her favorite.

So, as of right now, I don't have any way to pass full time. Only maybe if I'm around my friends who are for it. I know I can get around my hair with a beanie or something. I'll figure THAT out. <_<; Anyway, yeah. Thank you a lot.

[GQjoey]

Since you don't want to upset your parents right now, and want to keep that freedom, I say wait it out if you can. When you have your own place, cut your hair any way you want, I don't think your parents will put you out, and cut off your college funds over a haircut.

Have you ever tried knowledging your parents on what it means to  be trans? Do they know, at all that this is how you feel? I also came from a pretty religious family. We went to church every week, I was confimed yadda yadda. But growing up I was a very active "tomboy", my mom gave up trying to buy me "girly" stuff at about 10, and let me pick out my own clothes. I'm very grateful for my immediate family (mom dad brother) as they made it pretty easy for me to feel 100% comfortable with myself. But my extended family was, and still is another story. They all say they love me, and accept me, but I know who does, and who doesn't. I stopped getting bday cards from a few, family reuinons became very uncomfortable for me, when as I was younger, I loved them.

Family, friends, strangers, everyone will react differently. Some of the people I thought would accept me with open arms, turned their back. And others whom I thought would never understand, are now my best friends. It's really hard to tell how someone will react without first trying to explain yourself to them.

And as far as your grama, to me it sounds like she will love you and accept you no matter what. My one grama I was never really close to. But my mom's mom, I was always very close to as a child, and she only had 5 grandkids, me being the middle. She still doesn't really understand what it means to be Transgendered, but she tries. She still slips up sometimes with the "she, her, (my birth name)" but she always corrects herself. And it cracks me up, because for the last 3-4 years, she's always sent me 20 bucks more than my brother and cousins for birthdays and xmas. And will call and say "Don't tell anyone else, but you know you're my favorite".

Hang out with your friends more, and surround yourself with people you know care and accept you. You'll know when the right time is to tell your folks. Good luck

[EmergeAndSeeExit]

I know that everyones situation is extremely different and everyone has different fears, concerns and worries. For some folks, family is a huge priority. That's both good and bad, and I think my opinion on it is definitely very different than most of the folks on here.

Because I say (with typically harsher language) screw your family. Screw your friends. Screw anyone and everyone who isn't letting you be yourself. Worried about college money? Buck up. Work for scholorships. Get loans.

I just don't understand people coming on here talking about how amazing it feels to finally start passing or finally start taking hormones, and then they'll tell other people 'well maybe you should wait though.'

Honestly, dude, how many people feel like they should wait because of themselves? Nah, it's always other things, other people, not wanting to disappoint or piss people off or lose them. That's valid. I'm not saying it isn't. I'm just saying, for me, if people aren't going to accept me for who I am...then I don't want to be around them. My two very best childhood friends, my old next-door neighbors for nearly 2/3rds of my life had different takes on it. A brother and a sister. I told them both my situation, straight up. Told them how I felt and what that meant for me, and asked what it meant for them. The brother was cooler with it. The sister IMed me a few days later saying "I'm sorry you had to live like that all your life but I'm just not okay with it. You'll always be (my old name) to me."

I didn't talk to her. A week after that, she IMs me again. Just my old name with a question mark.

Haven't talked to her since.

Don't plan to. Ever. And I mean that.

Nothing, no one, no matter what, will ever be worth giving myself up for.

You're going to have to realize that you gotta let some people go. They aren't worth the effort and the heartbreak. Because it isn't just that some people don't understand - it's that a lot of people will simply refuse to try. There is nothing you can do about that. Move on.

But bro, here's how I feel about it for you: sounds like you have a tighter knit family than I do. The good the bad and the ugly to that is...hell, do you even really like them? 'Cause I know a ton of kids who really don't like their family but at the same time are very, very worried about meeting expectations. I like my family alright but I think my childhood sucked (you know everyones childhood kind of sucked though, goes with being trans) and when I told my parents I was trans I had every intention of moving out maybe 4 months after that, when I graduated high school.

I never graduated high school though. More trans issues. I got fired from my job. More trans issues. My girlfriend broke up with me. More trans issues. I lost a lot of friends. More trans issues. I didn't move out until two months ago. More trans issues.

I'm getting my GED in two weeks. Starting college in the fall. Submitting applications for jobs. The girlfriend? We fixed things. Never loved anyone more than I love her. I kept the friends who were worth keeping, and I'm making new ones. I'm living with my girlfriend now.

Alright, but maybe you do like your family. Maybe you're genuinely worried about them...circles, circles, circles, shouldn't they accept you then?

Any parent, any person, who is willing to take something as vital as money for college away just because you are who you are, doesn't deserve to be in your life. Family or not.

But who am I to talk? My FAFSA EFC is a 0. I don't expect college money from my family.

Also...my family hasn't been that bad about it. Sans the fact that when I first told my mom I wanted top surgery she thought it was my cutting habits becoming more extreme. She didn't know that I hadn't cut for a while, over a year now, but obviously it hadn't been that long back then. My mom ended up being the best about it. I finally have a good, solid relationship with my sister. Our dynamic changed a lot once she knew I was her brother. It's like everything finally made sense. Now she calls me just to talk. My dad is the only one who has a nearly clockwork pronoun skip. But he feels bad about it. I used to yell at him like crazy for it, still kind of do. But you get over that once you see your dad crying because he feels so bad. You realize, yeah, he must be trying.

My parents helped me pay for my name change. Got that a couple months ago. (Extremely long and costly process, by the way. Depends on where you live but it's guaranteed to suck.) My mom is paying for therapy but that's on hold until I get enough money for T...my next therapy session is going to be entirely based on me finding a doctor and getting some needles poked around in me. Gonna need over $1000 before that's possible because my girlfriend needs $750 for tuition still, due by May 5th. I'm estimating bloodwork, doctor and T costs to be upwards of $250. I don't have any kind of insurance. I know that doesn't always matter.

Anyway, it's 6 in the morning and I may not be making the best of sense. All I'm really saying is: you need to worry about yourself first. You can say that's what you're doing because you're just trying to make sure you have that college money but....are you honestly going to be happy, going to college as a girl? Is that the name you want to sign on your papers? Is that really, honestly, absolutely how you want to go about it?

Talk your family TO DEATH about this. Give them books and don't stop pestering them until they've read them. Answer questions, ask questions, completely impose yourself on them. Make them realize that you being trans is never going to go away, but there's a possibility that you might if they can't get with it.


What'll they tell you about being male? Something about being assertive?

Yeah, be assertive bro. Be yourself. Give 'em hell. Give 'em the truth.

It may help to have someone talk to your family. I know my mother never really, truly began accepting me until she talked to a self-identified genderqueer lesbian from a GLBTQI library who was pretty damn knowledgable about trans issues. My mom has had sessions with my therapist and has gained a better perspective on what's going on with me because of that. She has gone to a trans conference for parents of trans kids.

How do I know she's accepted me? Well, I still don't have my license and my now expired permit has a pesky little F on it. She told me she'd take it in and say they made a mistake on her son's ID...once I get a new ID. Pretty cool.

Anyway, give your family information. I know PFLAG does trans-based stuff every once in a while. Where do you live? Look into what's going on around you.

Until you really start talking about being a guy and being very vocal about it, they'll probably keep brushing their shoulders off in regards to it. They have to know how much it means to you before it will start meaning anything to them.

My advice? Prepare some stuff for them to read, give it to them, and talk to them once they've read it. Say you want to go to therapy to figure things out and make sure you get a therapist who is trans friendly and trans knowledgable. A therapist can be a great asset in convincing your family that you're going through something very real and very hard.

[GQjoey]

Your mom sounds a lot like mine Emerge. Except, she knew I was trans, before I did. I felt like I boy as long as I can remember (3 or 4 years old). I remember going to bed and literally praying to God I'd wake up with a penis. I'd stand on TOP of the toilet and pee straight down, my mom never bought me swimsuits because I'd run out of the house in just shorts to go swimming. By the time I was 12-13 she was on the internet, reading books, and getting in contact with people across the country trying to figure out just exactly what was going on inside my head. We didn't have a great relationship until I was about 18, because I was a pretty bad kid. Didn't go to school, ran with a bad crowd, getting in trouble with the law etc, but she continued to play in my corner.

Like Emerge said, if your family won't accept you AFTER they find out, then there really isn't much you can do. I have a good trans friend, who has had all the surgeries and been on T for years, and his mother flat out told him she will not accept him. He wrote her off, and his dad died years ago. But he's still living his life, with, or without his families support. I always believe family is what YOU MAKE IT. I consider friends, family. People who don't judge me, look at me different, just accept me for who I am.

And up until 2 years ago, majority of my "new" friends I had made after moving away from my hometown when I was 16, knew me only as a male. Which felt really good back then, because I was going to high school as a male, had my name changed and all of that, but the older I got, the more bad I felt for not just being ME. I didn't tell people because I didn't want them to judge me. I didn't want them to even THINK about me once being a female. I didn't want to hear the questions, I just wanted to be comfortable with myself. When I moved out west 2 years ago, I started meeting a lot of new people, and was honest about it to everyone. I was pretty amazed that people actually accepted me. I can't even tell you how many times I've heard "You're one of the strongest people I know, I can't imagine going through what you have". Yet, I don't feel like I've gone through anymore than anyone else. I'm sure I have, but it's always been natural for me.

I came back to visit last year over the holidays, and my (now ex) gf was with me. She was the first girl I had been with who knew about me BEFORE we started actually dating. She helped me realize a lot about myself. And with her by my side, I told one of my good guy friends who I had been boy's with for a good 6 years. I was shocked when he just stood there and stared at me and said "That's it? you're my boy regardless" It was that damn easy, yet I waited 6 years to say something.

I still sometimes find it hard to be true to myself. 5 years ago, some of my family not accepting me, really hurt me, and made me feel like a freak. I had not changed ONCE since they had known me as a "girl", yet just having that title as a boy, was obviously too much for them to handle. Now? I could give two (insert swear word here) what they think. I have my army of people who love me, and that is all that matters. You're gonig to run into people for the rest of your life that will judge you, not accept you etc. You turn the other way, and don't give it another thought. There is a lot of ignorance in this world, whether it be because of color, gender, money, etc. We can't let these things run our life.

If you're sure about yourself, don't let the fear of your family finding out hold you back. They will find out sooner or later. Google "GID" and "female to male transgendered", print some stuff off, and sit down with your mother and ask her to read.

[ConfusedMichelle]

Hey Cameron, I'm Brady.

I know what you mean by the cut your hair problem. But right when I get accepted into college, send in my deposits and every thing, I am cutting it ALL off.

As for the binder, I got a small Underworks tri-top.  It is definitely kinda tight but I only tried it on once. (I am saving it til I can transition haha).  My actual bra size is 34A, I'm fortunate lol. I say get an Underworks. If you wear an undershirt with it then a button up or a polo, it looks awesome.  Always bind your boobs up because if you push them down, they lose elasticity, which means it will be harder for the surgery to end up looking natural.  Plus, if you bind up, it makes it look like you have pecs

[Ms Bev]

I'm thinking about getting an Underworks binder, largely because I've heard that they work well and they are only $30. How uncomfortable are they? How well do they actually work? Is there something else for less that works as well or better?

I've read many places that wearing binders all the time softens and flattens the breasts by deterioration of tissue. Really? I don't want that to happen for personal reasons (mainly if I can't transition or something like that) How often would you recommend wearing a binder for the least amount of tissue damage?

>_>

Hello Cameron......

I might have a few things to say about this, being mtf, and binding to hide during my transition at work, at church, and anywhere I didn't want people to know I had breasts.  In my case, so many other things have been changing, it's hard to hide, and I no longer choose to bind.

I've used underworks-type binders, and yes, they work, and the smaller you are, the better they work.  After a long day though, I couldn't wait to get that thing off!  I massaged by breasts just to make them feel better after all that compression, and began to worry about potential damage in the future.  I've given this link before http://cgi.ebay.com/GYNECOMASTIA-COMPRESSION-SHIRT-VEST-GYNAECOMASTIA-large_W0QQitemZ120098732467QQcategoryZ15687QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
this is one I've worn many many times, and gives light compression that shouldn't hurt you.  I still even quit wearing these, just as a ftm might not wear a bra if his breasts gradually became smaller and smaller.

I don't know if this is helpful, but all the best,

Bev

[Cameron]

Whee, busy spring break.

Anyway, I'm on my way to ordering an Underworks binder. Waiting for my paypal to clear the money. Hurrah.

And about my parents and friends and stuff, thank you for your opinions. I really still don't know exactly where I'm gonna go in the near future, but I'll be continuing to think about it.

Sorry for the crap post, but I need to head to bed soon.

[Cameron]

I use ace bandages sometimes (like, the three times I've attempted binding), but they slip down so much and have take it off and get it snug tight again every hour or so. ><

[jaded]

hi cameron,
i can understand where your coming from.i come from a very religious family as well .
up until september my hair came down to my waist i mensioned cutting my hair to my mom and everytime she would say you already look like a boy why do you need THAT?anyway i knew we wouldnt see eye to eye on the situation. i figured im over 18 and she said  i already look like a boy so what the heck i went and got my really long pony tail chopped off and even though i didnt mind my long hair too much (i passed well anyway)and im a drummer so i comes to good use while headbanging .the feeling i felt when  the guy cut it off was just incredible .all of a suden it felt so much more "real" the fact that i am transitioning and i wont have to put on a show anymore.
since than i came out to most of my family everyone had diff. reactions nobody was supprised though in fact most told me they were just waiting  for me to just say it .everyone brought up g-d (that he  doesnt make mistakes) and i told them i agree .some have disowned me some are ignoring it but its strange i still feel better than ever.
about the breast tissue thing ive been binding since about age 11/12ish on and off but for the past 2 years nonstop and only recently  ive noticed tissue getting "funny"  this is ok with me because im having em removed in a couple of months i do recomend the underworks binder and not wearing em at night oh yeah i said em because i wear 2 at a time im crazy like that.
anyway good luck to ya nomatter what you do.

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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o188/jsjadednight/DSCN3944.jpg
my pony 
sorry wrong 1  here this should be it http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o188/jsjadednight/DSCN3115.jpg