FTM and Mental Disorders

[PandaValentine]

What's your opinion on being ftm and having something like a mood disorder? Have you yourself been diagnosed? If so did it complicate your transition, such as with getting hormones?

I ask because during therapy to be cleared for hormones they wanted to make sure nothing else was wrong. I had to lie about quite a lot of things, including the extent of my social anxiety. I have bipolar disorder, I don't need a doctor to diagnose me, I've hypomanic episodes, depressive episodes, manic episodes and mixed episodes. There was actually a point in my life where I was hearing/seeing things. (I don't experience extreme mania anymore though, at the time I believed it to be schizophrenic episodes) Obviously when mentioning things like this, a doctor isn't going to simply clear you for hormones like there's no problem to consider. I'm pretty good at handling my issues on my own, and wouldn't want medication anyways.

I've always been afraid they'd say you're not transgender, you're just ->-bleeped-<-ed up in the head and making yourself think strange things. Of course no matter the state of my mood I have a consistent gender identity as male. It's really ridiculous when doctors make these assumptions that one disorder can suddenly make it so you can't make any clear decisions in life.

So if you don't mind sharing what you're comfortable with others knowing, I'd appreciate feeling like I'm not the only trans guy who's got a disorder (I wouldn't consider being transgender a disorder like some therapists. I hate the term GID).

Please don't bother with comments on my 'self diagnosis'. I've lived through this issue for six years, and through others observations it is clear I don't go through 'normal' periods of emotion (well, sometimes but that's between episodes). I've read psychology books, including the DSM (Number four was it?). I've been told I am depressed by a few therapists, but I never once mentioned the manic/hypomanic/mixed episodes I get, mainly because they are not as problematic, well the mixed ones maybe but I've only had them a few times, not enough to be a bother.

[Yakshini]

Often self-diagnosis can be a problem because sometimes people think their problems are more severe than they really are. I've pulled my hair out SO many times hearing people say they have OCD under the premise that they like, HAVE to straighten their pencils if they are crooked *facepalm*. But sometimes it would be outright denial to not think something is wrong, so I don't disbelieve you in the least.
I was personally diagnosed with Severe Clinical Depression, Panic Disorder, Social Anxiety Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I have reason to believe I may also have ADD, but I have not gone to the doctor to discover whether or not it's true more or less because I don't want to find out that I have another mental illness. It was years ago during the rock bottom of my mental health and all of these illnesses have significantly improved. Although I am positive that my depression, SAD, and GAD are all perfectly intact.   
I'm not so sure that having these other mental illnesses would really affect your ability to get hormones. The hormone deficiencies involved with mental illnesses are far different from sex hormones. If anything, I imagine they want to know about your mental health to see how much it changes once you have started hormones.

[PandaValentine]

Hmm you make a good point, maybe my psychologist did just want to see if things would change or not. But I don't know, it's always scared me because getting on hormones was always far more important to me than any mood disorder! I told my psychologist who okayed me for hormones about my social anxiety but I lied about how much it affects me.

Ha-ha, yeah I know what you mean.  I hear so many people talk about OCD and it all has to do with, this pile of papers has to be perfectly straight... I always thought that just makes people a little obsessive or a perfectionist. I think there's a possibility of me having OCD but if so it's only really with locks. I have this problem where I can look at a lock, look away, look back, touch it to make sure it's locked and check it usually over three or four times before I 'FEEL' that it is locked.

It bothers me when people self diagnose as well, but those people usually do not actually understand the disorder they are diagnosing themselves with. Everyone in my family says my dad is bipolar but he isn't, he probably does have a mood disorder but the mood swings are to fast and not consistent with the criteria needed to meet bipolar disorder. Mood disorders do run in my family. I also only base this on evidence, not just thoughts that I have it. Who knows I may be wrong that it's bipolar but it certainly is not depression and it's the only thing that makes sense with the hallucinations/delusions I was faced with during certain periods of time, and the states I was in when I had them are not the same as with things like schizophrenia/psychosis.

I've been told by doctors/psychologists and therapists I have depression, anxiety and ADD. I however always just said whatever to them and never bothered because despite the very low states I get into I can still handle things without drugs and that is really their only solution when I went in. I think ADD is a load of BS though. I mean every kid I look at is that way, also they diagnosed me with that after my grandmother died, because I wasn't focusing in school and didn't care about homework. Seriously...

But yeah I understand, I'm actually afraid to see a doctor because bipolar isn't as scary as something like schizophrenia because I've always been scared thats what all hallucinations/delusions meant.

[Arch]

I have clinical depression and still struggle with it. I get SAD pretty bad, but I worked hard and got through the last winter fairly...gracefully. Not as gracefully as I would have liked. I didn't have any problems getting a hormone letter (and a top surgery letter) from my therapist.

I have a friend with bipolar, but he got his hormones through informed consent. He has been hospitalized for it. He says he was on four meds at once but has gradually reduced down to one med. Plus blood-pressure meds. And the T, of course.

I know another guy with mental health issues. I'm not sure what they are, actually, but he was hospitalized and had to be very firm and very strong to convince his doctors that he was indeed trans and needed to transition. Last time I saw him, he seemed to be doing fine. His mother was his advocate, so that helped.

[Arch]

I should add that it seems unwise to withhold very much info from the doctors, but I really don't know much about how a major change in hormones can affect mental illness. I've run into a couple of MTFs who were pretty badly depressed when they made the shift to estrogen. And I knew a depressed trans guy who became suicidal after he went on T, but I have to admit that I'm not sure how much was hormone-related.

I also heard about a guy in my community, before I started going to meetings, who actually did commit suicide when he was in transition. I don't know if he had preexisting issues.

[PandaValentine]

Well another thing about telling a doctor about these sort of issues is suddenly you are branded for life with a mental disorder. I hate that idea. Right now I can say ADD no longer applies to me, it was merely something I endured as a child do to post traumatic stress of my grandmother dying and feeling like nothing really mattered anymore. But after what usually is a very long time to diagnose bipolar disorder, I can't just walk away from it, and again I don't want to find I have something like schizoaffective disorder which I try to avoid even thinking about because from what I remember I meet the criteria quite well. I hate any disorders with the word 'schizo' in it!

See I bet if I would have been diagnosed before getting on hormones my mum would have said to the doctors she thinks it's all the disorder talking, she would love if I had remained her daughter and probably would have used the chance if she had it. She only goes along with the changes because she has no choice in what a psychologist said was a mentally stable person.

Also as for hormonal changes and bipolar disorder (if I have it) I have not noticed any changes. I am self aware since I write a lot of things down in a journal, so it's easy to check back on how I once felt. The only thing that I have noticed, unless I just never noticed getting it before T is I got some what I believe to be a mixed episode but because I am unsure of the time frame these episodes usually last for, I wouldn't really know. But I am happier between episodes than I used to be!

Wow that's really sad, I hate to hear about fellow trans guys who off themselves.  I mean I hate to hear of anyone doing it, but I guess it just pains me deeper when its a part of my own community.

[PixieBoy]

I'm only aware of having Asperger's Syndrome. However, there might be other mental issues as well as my transness. I get panic/anxiety attacks and tend to be depressed during winter, but that is probably subclinical.

ADD isn't a bull->-bleeped-<- diagnosis just because you got it in a bull->-bleeped-<- way. Some people have genuine difficulties concentrating, it isn't just "being lazy". Sorry, but the "ADD/ADHD/AS doesn't exist, it's just bad parenting skills/kid needs a good whuppin'/lazy kid/stupid kid" kind of thinking is one of my pet peeves.

[jmaxley]

I have chronic major depression, general anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, and pretty severe social anxiety, to the point sometimes I can't leave the house.  I've sometimes wondered if I might have asperger's.  Some of it really describes me.  I've been on lots of different meds over the years and had other diagnoses that I disagree with.  The meds haven't ever really done much for the depression though the one I'm on now has helped more than any other.  The OCD used to be really bad, until I started taking Prozac--that was the first psych med I'd ever been on and it almost completely cleared up the OCD, which has never been as bad since, even when I've not been on meds.

I have had a shrink use my diagnosis against me.  The first one I asked to write my T letter, told me that as my diagnosis (with her) was borderline personality disorder (the last two shrinks I've seen have disagreed with that diagnosis), that my efforts to transition were attention-seeking behavior, which was part of the disorder.  I have severe social anxiety, the LAST thing I want is to be noticed.

[Arch]

I'm still not sure how much of my depression is trans-related. I know that the winter depression is a separate issue, but I'm not sure how much it has been exacerbated by the overall depression.

I used to get cyclical depression when I was still menstruating. Not PMS, though. It's gone now, of course, but that started happening when my cycles completely stopped, well before I started T.

I wish I knew more about the trans guy who killed himself. I was suicidal in February-March 2010 and kept thinking of him and wondering if I would be next. A lot of people envied me because I had had top surgery--as far as they were concerned, I pretty much had it made, transition-wise--and I resented that so much. I kept thinking that it wasn't just pretransition guys who get suicidal, but nobody seemed to want to acknowledge that.

Panda, if you're functioning okay and don't want to be labeled as bipolar, I can understand that you wouldn't want to tell the medicos about your symptoms. Just be safe, okay?

[Arch]

The first one I asked to write my T letter, told me that as my diagnosis (with her) was borderline personality disorder (the last two shrinks I've seen have disagreed with that diagnosis), that my efforts to transition were attention-seeking behavior, which was part of the disorder.  I have severe social anxiety, the LAST thing I want is to be noticed.

It's nice that she knew you so well that she understood this.

[tekla]

I kept thinking that it wasn't just pretransition guys who get suicidal, but nobody seemed to want to acknowledge that.

I've known post-transition people here, on other sites and IRL how have gone that route.  It does not solve everything, and for some people it does not seem to solve the most important things at all.

[insideontheoutside]

This is another "sore" topic for me that I really shouldn't express my opinion on but I've had a crap day and I'm going to anyway

Basically, I think a large portion of mental disorders are actually caused by the pharmaceutical industry and psychologists and therapists that frankly aren't very good at what they do. I don't care who you are there are times in your life where you will be depressed, anxious, etc. Doesn't have to just be related to any sort of gender thing. But that's just life. How many of you out there are on some sort of prescription drug for a "mental disorder"? How easy was it to get? For instance, one psychologist I saw early on practically had their prescription pad ready to go before I even opened my mouth. I mentioned anxiety 2 times in that session and left with a prescription for Ativan. I've seen medical doctors and it's been very similar. I've had prescriptions for valium, xanax and paxil as well. I did actually take the xanax for awhile and while initially it seemed to do something it stopped doing anything and actually made me feel much worse after awhile.

After I got to the point where I was about to call it quits on life I was helped out by a friend back on the road to recovery and during that time started really looking into what I had been taking and other mental drugs. Without going all conspiracy theory on it, I came to my own conclusion that the more these pills are handed out the more the drug companies make. And it didn't used to be like this. I'm old enough to have some perspective on the issue that 20 years ago you couldn't just say "I'm depressed" to the average shrink and walk out the door with a paper to turn in for pills at the drug store.

It might just be me and my own quirks but when I was on prescription drugs I also felt much worse - or they would stop working and the doctor or psychologist would want to put me on new ones. I've had at least 8 friends who have done about the same thing - started a drug, it sort of made them feel better, then it stopped working.

I really feel that all the drugs add to the problem in such a way as they change or alter brain chemistry so that even when you're off them it takes a very long time to get back to "normal" - most people once they get on the pill carousel don't get off it. They just go from drug to drug, from diagnosis to diagnosis and so on.

Over the course of 15 years time I was diagnosed with the following:
- Gender Identity Disorder
- Social Anxiety
- Panic attacks
- General anxiety
- Transsexualism
- ADD
- OCD (this one really was out of left field!)
- Depression
- Anger problems
- Alcoholism

There's probably a few I've missed. Those were all determined by about 5 different psychologists and doctors.

For me, it was only after I decided enough was enough, that I was not playing the game, I was not going to be part of the system or become a statistic, and I was going to make some changes on my own, that I started to get better. And of course it wasn't some instantaneous thing. A good 60 days of the initial part of that were total hell and it took about 5 years of sticking to eating healthy and this "all natural" thing I had embarked on to get to the point where I felt "normal". And now I think every one of those diagnosis were pretty much bull->-bleeped-<- and I definitely shouldn't have been on pills.

Before anyone jumps all over me on that I will say there are people with legit disorders. One of my friends was manic depressive and he actually found 1 single pill that worked for him and it worked out long term and made his life a lot easier. I have a few other friends who were helped through some rough spots with a short prescription of something. But I also have some friends who, like me, decided to take their mental and physical health into their own hands by seeking out alternatives and doing their own research. One of my friends had a serious bi-polar disorder and was medicated for many years but still dealt with massive ups and downs. It was only after she sought the advice of an old Chinese herbalist and actually went to a drug detox clinic that she noticed this vast improvement. Today, she's not on any kinds of pills. She began exercising 2 years ago and dropped over 100 pounds of extra weight that she had pretty much had since puberty. She's in the best health of her life, it's really amazing.

I know that everyone is different, but I really do believe that many people get caught up in "the system" - doctors, drugs, treatments that don't really help heal you and only mask symptoms until they resurface.

Yeah, that's a bit of tangent but I only talk about this ->-bleeped-<- because I've been there and I made it through it on my own terms and it's night and day for me between how I used to be (both mentally and physically) and how I am now. I know if I can overcome these things and get around the "disorders", other people can too. I'm always down to talk about my experiences in that arena if I think it might help someone else out and in the last 15 years I've gained a lot of knowledge about alternatives, etc.

So in short, I don't think FTMs or any trans people have more "disorders" than anyone else. I think it's popular to have disorders and diagnosing them means on-going clients as well as on-going medical bills. For trans people they already have to be in the system just to try to get HRT so it's not surprising at all that most are diagnosed with other disorders because in the eyes of psychologists we're not "normal" to begin with and there had to be some underlying causes and reasons and deep-seated emotions to make us so abnormal. Might be a pessimistic viewpoint but I also believe that transsexualism is a completely normal variation. Maybe someday the medical field will treat it as such?

[jmaxley]

It's nice that she knew you so well that she understood this.

Tell me about it.  I had been seeing her for two years before I told her I was trans.  Another time when I asked her about writing a letter for T, she told me I couldn't be trans because I've worn women's clothes before.   

[Mr.Rainey]

I have anxiety disorder (diagnosed by an MD) 1 in 100 men have anxiety disorders so I think that is fairly normal. Also it runs in my family.

I think I have ADD, I probly should get tested for it.

[PandaValentine]

I'm sorry if I just don't understand ADD but maybe it's all because of the resentment of being diagnosed with something that is just me being a kid. I was 8 years old when I was diagnosed, I liked to stare out windows and I was fairly hyper. The school tried to force my parents to put me on medication. I was so against it as were the men in my family, though my mum contemplated putting me on, actually filled out the prescription. I have poor concentration but why does that have to be part of a disorder? Why can't I just have trouble concentrating on things I lack interest in? Why do I have to be ADD? I'm sorry but that's one of the disorders there are just way to many bs cases to even see if there is such a thing. I remember my ex friends nephew was diagnosed with ADD, this kid was crazy hyper, but is that really a correct diagnosis for an abusive victim? Ever think there is another reason?

Take a look at psychiatric drugs, and took a look at some of your other prescription meds, be careful. They don't have to do much to get these drugs approved! When they test these drugs on volunteers they do not actually have to have the disorder they are claiming they cure! The entire f***ing industry is f***ed up!

The Psychiatric Drug Industry is worth around 333 billion dollars. To them it's all about selling drugs, which is why they scare people on tv with symptoms everyone can relate to and show them a drug that can stop them from having HUMAN emotions, like sadness. I remember when I went into my therapist office the first thing I said was I DO NOT WANT ANY DRUGS! He asked me how I planned to help myself then, since he seemed to believe there was no other way! Of course psychiatrists who can write prescriptions, you may find it's hard to miss the prozac mug on their desk. My doctors know me well enough to not offer me meds anymore when I mention I'm feeling down, they try and work it out an alternative way, actually helping me 'deal' with emotions than a quick fix.

Yeah it's actually interesting how many people commit suicide on ANTI-depressants. The companies try not to let too many people know the amounts, it's why I won't take drugs. I probably have less of a chance of commiting suicide med free than on medication. There was actually this woman, with a two year old child, the doctor diagnosed the baby as depressed/bipolar or something along those lines (how does this even happen?) and prescribed the kid medication to which killed him/her. I admit the mother is partially to blame for not realizing this is a f***ed up diagnosis for a two year old child! True story. My point I guess is doctors also don't know how to diagnose people and can be f***ing idiots, I know myself better than anyone, so I say I should be the one to say what's wrong with me, I mean if me and the doctor read the same book and are basing this all on everything I would tell him, what's he going to tell me that I don't already know?

I knew a girl in my freshman class and I believe she was on Prozac and had never been more suicidal since she was on it, she also started cutting after going on meds. I've never been on any psych drugs (took one anti-depressant once but for a different reason). I've only been on multiple medications for severe headaches which I suffered from for I think it was 5 years? Doctors don't care about solving the problem (physical or mental) they just want a quick fix and their paycheck. It's hard to find the few who really do give a sh**! Also did you know 70% of mental disorders have an underlying PHYSICAL illness. Yeah so don't buy into their bulls**t, find out what's really wrong with you. It's possible my bipolar issues are a side effect from an underlying illness since I have had lots of problems (specifically ones like with lupus) which if there is a possibility of me having that illness it would explain the psychotic episodes with hallucinations!

I also heard that there is ZERO proof there is actually a chemical imbalance in people with depression. It's apparent that if you ask a psychiatrist of scientic evidence, they have to answer there is none that proves it to be true. My point is if 1 in every five people are depressed, how do we know it's not just a part of human nature? Just like it's estimated that 1 in every 10 people are gay. However with the way I've experienced things there are clues it's not exactly common. I try not to think about and ride the hypomania as long as I can and try to find solutions before depressive episodes hit again. Schizophrenia is definitely real, can't fake it, shows up on brain scans. My mom knew a girl growing up who had two people in her family who were schizo and she always worried she'd turn out the same because it appears to be something in genetics.

Ever since I started my new diet I found that most of my problems are gone, I'm in what I feel to be a hypomanic episode, or for the first time I'm just doing better. It's surprising what diets can help but doctors like to keep that a secret. Diets can cure diabetes (type 2, in some cases type 1), they can cure heart disease, types of cancer and autism. Why shouldn't a diet be able to cure something like bipolar disorder? So if it's true and I do have it, I can say that for the past month I've been in this state and on my new diet, I'm  convinced it's doing something, though I never even thought about the possibility of it changing my mental state in the beginning, it's only a recent idea. I'm still having some issues with panic attacks, more so recently but those are extremely common in my family, we just have a lot of anxiety and get panic attacks for no reason at all.

Also, I got to agree with 'insideontheoutside' on everything! Though I think in this extremely long comment I made that very clear!

[Amazon D]

I was hospitalized as a 12 yr old for wearing womens clothes. I was also using drugs at that time and was the middle child of 7 and had a dad who drank heavy and a mom who worked to support us. I was put back in for another 4 months a yr later and then ran away from home but that was the hippy generation so it was safe and i went to the redwood forest in N Calif where its still hippies but many sell pot and do hard drugs. The point i am getting at is that for me after puberty life became a living hell. I knew cities would be bad for me so i went to rural areas. The one thing that did help me and still helps me is working hard. It wears me out and allows me to get a good sleep. However, i was never good at working for a company so i did lots of volunteer work for a place to stay on farms etc. To this day that is my therapy. However after joining the military and making it 7 months and then not having a job for 30 yrs the Veteran administration gave me a pension and declared me BiPolar. I tried meds but they made me eat and get more depressed. Oh yea i did have GRS mtf which got rid of testosterone and helped me think clearer because i no longer had that sex drive. I can't say what T does to FTM's or what your sex drive was before or will be after or if that is even an issue with you but it was with me. Mine was so bad it helped me mentally to decide i was TS and to get GRS. Anyway life has improved much after GRS and the only thing that helps me have any bit or normality is working hard. I have done this in the past when i opened up trans homes for both FTMs and MTFs in minn and NY. These days i do it myself as either a volunteer at different intentional communities and today i started my own intentional community as i am trying to help veterans but so far i am the only one here. i think the world out there knows i am mental and so people don't want to come here. I am thinking of switching to Trans people and espcially those with problems dealing with society and the public since i am out here in rural central Pa with lots of farms and amish and state forest. Anyway hard work that makes me sweat and makes me tired helps me to pass the days. Have any of you ever tried some form of hard work? Oh as a teen i use to dig underground forts and make treehouses by myself which was doing my own thing and it was hard work and it kept me sane but when regular kids came by they always messed it up for me as i tried to fit in with them but they took over and made my life hell. Have any of you ever tried some form of hard work as therapy for your mental issues???

[Devin87]

I've never really been to therapy.  Tried to go to counseling once the day after my dad went to jail like six years ago, but it didn't do anything for me.  I do think I've got a touch of ADD, but it rarely affects my work (the joy of being a teacher-- I get to multi-task like woah and since kids have sort attention spans we switch activities completely every 15-20 minutes).  I also think I may have a touch of OCD mostly because I have to touch certain things on the shelves in stores or my arm becomes physically painful (it's a really weird sensation).  And I tend to get obsessions where I can't sleep or think of anything else until they pass and then I get those "oh know, what if I become a child molester" thoughts, which leads my brain to start thinking I'm a pedaphile and I panic and stuff.  That freaked me out until I read that it's a classic symptom of OCD and now I'm able to recognize those thoughts as OCD when I have them and not obsess over them and beat myself up over them.

So yeah-- I might not really have either of those, but the way I see it, every brain has it's own eccentricities and I think every one has a touch of one mental disorder or another just because our brains work differently and everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.  I don't let it bother me and I rarely talk about what I think my "brain weaknesses" are, but I try to adjust my thinking and behavior to accommodate them when I see them coming on.  And that's another weakness and the one that makes me avoid therapy-- I think I've got complete control over everything and so the one time I did go to counseling I thought it was pointless because we didn't talk about anything I hadn't already thought over and figured out myself.

[tekla]

1 in 100 men have anxiety disorders so I think that is fairly normal.

That's 1%, I don't see that as approaching 'normal' by any standard statical definitions.

[MaxAloysius]

I probably have a few disorders rattling around in my head, but I'm of the opinion that most people do. It's not surprising we have a disorders with all of the stuff we have to deal with  I don't care for a diagnosis though; I am who I am, and I'm happy that way. I've been offered medication several times, but I always turn it down. I really think everyone relies too heavily on drugs to fix things, when they should be getting off their arse and fixing their problems themselves.

Plus, I would never take any medication that alters the way I think or feel, as a writer it would mean death to my natural creativity, and that's just too important to me.

[insideontheoutside]

The Psychiatric Drug Industry is worth around 333 billion dollars. To them it's all about selling drugs, which is why they scare people on tv with symptoms everyone can relate to and show them a drug that can stop them from having HUMAN emotions, like sadness. I remember when I went into my therapist office the first thing I said was I DO NOT WANT ANY DRUGS! He asked me how I planned to help myself then, since he seemed to believe there was no other way! Of course psychiatrists who can write prescriptions, you may find it's hard to miss the prozac mug on their desk. My doctors know me well enough to not offer me meds anymore when I mention I'm feeling down, they try and work it out an alternative way, actually helping me 'deal' with emotions than a quick fix.

.... I can say that for the past month I've been in this state and on my new diet, I'm  convinced it's doing something, though I never even thought about the possibility of it changing my mental state in the beginning, it's only a recent idea. I'm still having some issues with panic attacks, more so recently but those are extremely common in my family, we just have a lot of anxiety and get panic attacks for no reason at all.

Yes - especially to these two points.

My mom and my dad had both had panic attacks at different points in their lives. It could very well be something genetic that predisposes people to that sort of thing. But they both got through it without any sort of pills.

Also, on the diet front, cut out refined sugar if you haven't already. Basically anything with a lot of sugar. In the natural health world there have been studies linking sugar to increases in anxiety. I've also seen a few studies done on sugar related to hyperactivity in children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD. When the children's diets were changed and sugar eliminated they became less hyper and more focused - basically nullifying their previous diagnosis of ADD. Go fig.