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DES exposure

Started by DesertDawn, April 07, 2011, 06:37:41 PM

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DesertDawn

Back in September one of us asked about DES exposure and its effects on transgendered individuals. I am one of the 500 or so confirmed exposed sons who were surveyed in the 2005 study taken from the responses of the DES Sons International. Although several of the folks responding here mentioned intersexed conditions and possible worries about cancers, no one pointed out the very significant incidence of transsexualism, GID, and nonstandard sexual orientations among those exposed to DES.
Of the 500 responding to Dr Scott's questions, 150+ were either transsexual or GID, that's more than 30%. This is in truth the most prevelent result known, but unstudied, of the effects of DES on the exposed children.

I would love to hear from others exposed, more than 5 million in the US alone, who now find themselves gender queer, and or experiencing strange and unusual medical and social complications.

I had super high blood pressure that only came down when I began taking estrogen after 50. But now I have been diagnosed with a rare breast cancer, Pagets Disease.
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Northern Jane

I am afraid that you need to do more research - there is NO statistical link between DES and transsexualism. The only supposed link was in a study that invited ONLY transsexuals to respond. In all other studies, transsexualism is NOT statistically more common than in the non-DES population.
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Eva Marie

Quote from: Northern Jane on April 07, 2011, 07:17:13 PM
I am afraid that you need to do more research - there is NO statistical link between DES and transsexualism. The only supposed link was in a study that invited ONLY transsexuals to respond. In all other studies, transsexualism is NOT statistically more common than in the non-DES population.

Speaking for myself - there is an extremely high chance that I was exposed to DES. DES was prescribed for problem pregnancies in the 50's and 60's as well as given to help promote "healthy" babies. My mom's pregnancy was very troubled and she had a hysterectomy shortly after delivering me. She took pre natal vitamins which is one way that DES was administered.

There are only 1 or 2 physical changes that DES leaves on males and i have them. We had to turn to adoption to have kids because of my issues.

I've read the transgender claims about DES, and considering what i know about myself, and considering that I know some other transgender males that were also exposed to DES - i consider it a possible cause. At any rate it was a nasty and unnecessary drug, and I feel experimented on by the medical community.
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carol_w

I,too, was exposed to DES in utero.  My mother had a history of miscarriages, and was probably given the drug to avoid the issue when she became pregnant with me. And like, you, Riven, my mother could have gotten it from prenatal vitamins, as I was born in 1953, right in the middle of the time when DES was considered to be a worthy supplement.   

I have some of the characteristics of DES exposure, namely microphallus (approximately half to two-thirds the size of "normal") plus being hypothyroid (little family history of thyroid issues).  In addition, my behavior was VERY female from an early age, and had appropriate information been available in Oklahoma's libraries in the early 1970's, I might have very well not "buried" my female side and learned behaviors more appropriate for a male.  I also had a very severe case of depression that began at age 50, and was only alleviated when I began low-dose estrogen.  (I'm still on that today, seven years later.)

While I would agree with Northern Jane that there's no scientific statistical link between DES and transsexualism, I think that there's more to it.  For example, it's implied in all of the articles that I've read about DES exposure, that the earlier the fetus was exposed, the more likely that "abnormalities" appeared.  In my case, I've always believe that I was probably mid-range.  My TSism has never been of the "transition or die" kind, nor can I ever remember having feelings so strong that I felt "born in the wrong body" at an early age.  I just feel that life would have been a hundred times better (with no internal conflicts) as a woman.  Even today, when I'm "out" as a woman and accepted as one, there's a warm, fuzzy feeling inside and a calmness that I never get as a male.  Unfortunately, I'll probably never have that permanently as my family situation has prevented me from transitioning. 

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Del

I hope this is not a stupid question but what is DES?
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carol_w

Del,
No question is stupid!  That's what Susan's is for!

DES (Diethylstilbestrol) was a form of estrogen that they gave to many pregnant women from around 1940 to around 1970, ostensibly to pregnancy complications and "losses" (miscarriages).  In the late 1960's they found that it was causing HUGE issues for the daughters of women who had taken the drug (breast and uterine cancer, uterine fibroids, other "female" issues).  The "sons" like me have issues, but they're far less physically life-threatening.  The FDA (US) ordered it pulled from the market in 1975, but it continued to be used for a very few select problems until the late 1980's when other drugs replaced it.

Here's a link from Wikipedia if you want to read about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol

Carol
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Joelene9

  Yet unproven, my mom was a candidate for DES prescription.  There were animal studies that links transgender tendencies of males born with use of the DES in the pregnant animals.  But in the same vein, the article says that may not apply to us because humans are on a higher genetic order.   
  My concern right now is the increased cancer risk.  I just got another PSA test today that I am eagerly (or not) waiting for the results of.  My mon died of cervical cancer at age 62, all of her sisters are still alive and in their 80's with no cancer.  The cervix being a good female analog for the male prostate.  My prostate PSA levels were over 4.0 ng/ml for the past 5 years.  Hopefully it will go down due to the HRT.  If it doesn't, I may have to get a biopsy.  62 for me is only 3 1/2 years from now. 
  Cancer risks for sons of DES mothers by the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/DES/consumers/research/recent_cancer_sons.html
Use the other links on this page for more info.
  Joelene
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zakfar

Damn! This is some news for me. Thanks.
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MeghanAndrews

I agree with Jane. My Mom took it in 1968 and 1969 after she lost the child before me due to still birth. The doctor said it was the only way I could be guaranteed to even have a shot at being normal. If not, they said I'd probably not make it full term. She was bleeding a lot and stuff. I posted about this somewhere else. At first, my Mom did research and tried to draw these conclusions that just weren't there at all. I think she wanted science to point to my transition and have a cause. It sounded good to me. After I did research, there was nothing there other than some trans people who were exposed. No link.

Then I really thought about it. So what if my Mom did take it and it caused some weird things? Does that change my life AT ALL right now? Nope. Even if there were a link, what does it matter? Does it really change anything? Nope. It doesn't make me more or less anything. It's not like I'd walk around telling people irl or online. It doesn't mean anything. If there were a genetic test that could be done to pinpoint the reason I'm trans or why I'm the way I am, I don't think I'd take it. It has absolutely no bearing on my life. It is what it is. I love where I am. I told my Mom I didn't want her to order medical records from those days because it doesn't really matter. She should see the smile on my face (see my avatar) and the happiness in my eyes (see my avatar) and know that no diagnosis, medical records or medical reason will ever change that. I honestly kind of like thinking I'm insane and crazy in the head for transitioning and being who I always was just because it proves a point that we don't need any reasons to be who we are other than to be convinced we'll be happier aligning ourselves the way we see fit.

So Dawn, we love you. You love you. Don't worry about it :) Meghan
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carol_w

Meghan,
That is one absolutely true, amazing answer.  I guess that many of us (myself included) look to place blame on something for the way we are, when we should just accept ourselves and our circumstances.  After all, there are many things that could have made our lives worse. 

BTW, Meghan, that is one beautiful (avatar) picture of you.  You look even better there than in your videos. 

Carol
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From_Ariel

Regarding the DES exposure Wikipedia does have some info on the "DES Sons" and increased prevailance of GID.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol#DES_sons

http://web.archive.org/web/20060529201743/http://www.desexposed.org/aboutdes/dessons5yrstudy.html


I often wondered if that or other things may be the cause of my GID too.

Although I agree fully with Meghan I think TBH we need way more research being put into GID by the government in general as to causes and more effective treatments. I think the accessablility and changing social climate is leading more people to come forward and transition but that can't be the only reason that we are seeing such increasing numbers. Numbers of undescended testicles at birth and premature babies continues to rise too. There is still things in our environment effecting our children we need more research. Also the government should be providing more education and advice to health care institutions on proper treatment and ethics re: us.

Be yourself!
Those that Matter don't Mind.
Those that Mind don't Matter.
--Ariel
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Joelene9

Ariel,
  Thanks for the links.  However, I don't think there will be any real definitive answers to the DES exposure until my generation is gone (Boomers).  There are things still developing as my generation ages.  I, like some of those case studies in the above post, had some of those same symptoms as a child.  I was extremely thin, picked-on and I was called "The boy who looks like Twiggy" in Jr. High.
  There are environmental things to consider.  We humans has changed this planet's ecology that the development of the human species is changing as well.  One of my cousins is a water quality chemist for the USGS, and he was involved in the study of pharmaceuticals in the water system.   His studies were not downstream near the output of municipal sewage treatment plants, but from the drug manufacturing plants.  The drugs are not making it to the water, but the byproducts of the manufacturing are.  These byproducts are morphing in the water with the bacteria, sun exposure and other things in the water making previously unknown compounds such as xenoestrogens that mimic the effects of estrogen.  Some of those xenoestrogens are a strong estrogen like DES and will affect the development in both adolescent boys and girls. 
  I came across a study of adolescent boys from at least a dozen countries on the occurance of temporary and non-temporary gynocomastia (man boobs).  This study had the US on top with the highest percentage of about 23%,  followed by Britian and the other European nations and Japan.  Turkey was the lowest at 8-9% occurance.  I can't seem to find this study but Turkey was the only country below 10% occurances.  The Turkish lifestyle and diet may be a factor in this but the increase of breast reduction surgeries of adolescents per population everywhere gives wonder.
  Joelene
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