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I can't stand the term Atheist

Started by Maddie Secutura, May 05, 2011, 06:03:21 PM

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Maddie Secutura

Just like the title says.  Unicorns can't be proven to exist but I don't consider myself an Aequuscornist (Away from horse with horn if my latin roots serve me correctly).  Why should a god hypothesis have such sway as to describe me? Metaphysical Naturalist is a much better term (at least for me). 

If something supernatural exists, that means it should be able to be measured.  Whether or not we have an instrument capable of measuring it remains to be seen.  After all we didn't always have geiger counters but there was something around those uranium deposits making people sick.  It was considered a supernatural occurance but now we know the mechanism causing it.  Therefore I make no claim as to whether or not something exists, only whether observed phenomena point to it's existence.  For example, our observations about genetics and the fossil record point to evolution.  If magic were recorded to exist, it would have to have an underlying natural mechanism that allows it to exist.  If ghosts exist, they can be measured.  We might not have the necessary instruments, but if we did then we'd be able to recorde them.  Some might ask about EVP and those blurry photographs.  A simpler explanation is our brain being good at identifying patterns.  What allows for the photons given off by spirits to be captured by camera film and yet lets them evade the human eye?  Are they hitting our retinas and our brains simply dismiss them?  If we want to think of the supernatural as real then these are the questions we need to be asking. 

Current facts, and by facts I mean such as "things fall down" or a "rolling ball eventually stops" or "people who live near a certain location in the woods are always getting sick," are explained by things we make up such as "gravity" or "friction" or "ionizing radiation from a uranium deposit."  If you think about it, "god did it" is another thing we can make up to explain these things.  But "god did it" lacks predictive power.  If I know the properties of a certain thing such as surface roughness, which are again are qualifiers we make up to describe what has been observed about said thing, then applying the roughness to my friction theory, I can predict an observation, otherwise known as a fact.  To say god makes the ball stop rolling says nothing for the behavior of the next several balls I roll. 

We can apply this to intelligent design (ID) vs evolution.  Given: there is a species moths living in a forest.  Within this species is a dark grey and a light grey variety.  Normally there are equal portions of light and dark real estate so they can both survive equally well.  You might say that these two were intelligently designed for that habitat.  But via evolutionary theory, it is hypothesized that there are light and dark grey moths because all other less fit varieties died out.  Say we find the remains of past less fit varieties (which were a startling shade of electric blue).  It's looking good for evolution as it predicted the extinction of less favorable traits for the given surrounding.

Using the predictive power of evolutionary theory we can say that if something were to happen to the surrounding or a mutation is more benificial to survival, that trait will be passed on.  So say a nearby volcano spreads a layer of light grey ash across everything.  Of course the light grey variety still blends in while the dark grey stick out.  The birds who like to eat these moths have an easy time finding the dark grey ones and after a while they all get eaten.  Now the species consists of only light grey moths. 

But say a few dark grey moths were born with a mutation that allowed them to move really really fast.  They would evade the birds.  They now have a good survival strategy.  The speedy survivors will pass that trait on to their children. Eventually you'll get two separate species of moths, the dark fast ones, and the light stealty ones.  Evolution predicted that a new species could emerge.  ID says that any new species would have to be designed by a designer (if it says new species can emerge at all).  Evolution is supported in this case and we have no choice but to reject ID.  (Note that these two theories are mutually exclusive but not a dichotomy.  Disproving one will not necessarily prove the other but proving one will disprove the other or so ID proponents would like to believe.)

Some theists do display scientific rigor.  They change their hypothesis to match observations.  The literal interpretation of every creation myth falls short when it comes to the age and observed formation of the universe.  So theists change from a literal view to god made the big bang.  Maybe some day we will be able to measure divinity if it exists.  At that point, however, it will cease to be a supernatural phenomenon and will be considered part of the natural world.  That's why I call myself a Metaphysical Naturalist: there is no supernatural.


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RabbitsOfTheWorldUnite

Just my two cents: religion was created so that the intelligent minority could easily control the gullible majority.  I am with you in that every "supernatural" event can be explain through knowledge of the matter.
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Padma

I think everything is natural - unexplainable events are just unexplainable, and on the whole, I'm content to enjoy them rather than analyse them :). I also prefer to think of myself as non-theist in my beliefs, since "atheist" has become such a noun these days, such a label. A creator god is just irrelevant, and I don't see why we're so stuck on the idea that the only options you have are to believe in a creator god or to have no beliefs at all, that's just daft. Everyone has their ideas about how the universe ticks, and I have no problem with calling that a belief system, gods or no gods.

As for theistic religion, I tend to believe it's something people invented originally not for power, but for comfort - mostly these seem to reflect family dynamics, a universe with a daddy and a mummy and maybe benign older siblings. Personally, the idea that the universe might be in the hands of parents makes me shudder.
Womandrogyneâ„¢
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justmeinoz

I guess I am an Ethical Monotheist then. 
As for so called "Intelligent Design",  with all the faulty things in the Universe, I wouldn't be putting it's creation on my resume'.  As Einstein said, for every complex problem there is a simple solution, which is invariably wrong.
"Don't ask me, it was on fire when I lay down on it"
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Berserk

Regarding the term "atheist," well whether we like it or not, belief in deities is more common in our society than belief in unicorns, which is perhaps why your term hasn't caught on :P While I understand why the term "atheism" might bother you, myself I'm not particularly bothered by it. It is not as though being an atheist is something I go about shouting from the roof tops or which plays a large role in my life. It's simply another way of responding to the question most of us are inevitably asked more than once in life: what do you believe in/what is your religion. I wouldn't describe myself as a capital A Atheist, but simply an atheist as far as defining my complete lack of faith in the world's most popular fairytale.

I also don't see defining an aspect of one's thoughts/self in opposition to something else or as a negation of something else problematic in the case of atheism. Either call it nothing at all or call it atheism since both fulfill the primary purpose of stating one's thoughts on "higher powers." Its stance as an "opposition" or "negation" in itself is merely meant to express a stance on the issue of religion, not on anything else, though some might argue otherwise.

I would even go as far as to say that employing a negation is helpful in this instance. Its existence as a negation allows it to state a specific stance when needed, without implying any kind of ideological attachment beyond "I don't believe in a higher power/deity," which isn't ideological of itself. Whereas theism typically requires some kind of ideological stance to be attached to it.

As far as the rest of your post, I've never understood people who say, "I don't believe in evolution." Evolution is not a belief, it is a scientific theory. But then even saying that much gets religious panties in a bunch and garners such responses as "well Intelligent Design is a theory too!" People continue to have issues distinguishing the meaning of the term "theory" as its used in the sciences, and "theory" as its used in common speech. Not the same at all, but as long as there are religious people on this planet, they will likely continue to make this mistake for their own convenience. Just as it is convenient to call the remains of Homo Neanderthalensis or Paranthropus Bosei a "hoax" or call the results of carbon dating a "hoax" as well. But such is the way of the faithful, I suppose, and thankfully the world is slowly turning away from religion.
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VeryGnawty

I'm an aflyingspaghettimonsterist.
"The cake is a lie."
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Maddie Secutura

Quote from: VeryGnawty on May 06, 2011, 12:25:59 PM
I'm an aflyingspaghettimonsterist.

May He and all his Noodly Goodness be praised.


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Anatta

#7
Kia Ora,

::) I was gonna start another thread, but then realise this would go with Maddie topic quite nicely...

But first just a little background history of the term Atheism that I dug up from the net...

Quote...Atheism... The Correct Literal Meaning

In ancient Greece, the word for "god" was "theos". Obviously, if "theos" meant god, then there would need to be a word that meant the opposite. By putting "a" in front of "theos" the word "atheos" was formed, which means "no god". In Greek "a" can also mean "without", although I think in this case "no" makes more sense. Taken this way a person that says, "no god(s)", is making a denial of the existence of god(s). Any confusion about whether it meant "without belief in god(s)", as modern atheists claim, would not have been a consideration at this point in time. It was simply a denial of god(s) existence.

These two words, "theos" and "atheos" are the root words from where we get "theism" and "atheism": "ism" means; "Greek -ismos; orig. suffix of action or of state, forming nouns from verbs."

It's usage today is a "doctrine, theory, system, etc." (Webster's).
At the time "theos" came in to existence, there was no formal "doctrine of god" so "theism" developed sometime later, most likely during the (French) Enlightenment. This period of time is also when the modern form of "atheism" came into existence as well. This tracing of the development of a word is also part of etymology.

Once more formal doctrines came into being, then the word "theism" was created..."Theos" god; "ism", belief or doctrine. Thus, the modern use of the word "theism", belief in God. We must remember, however, that the literal, Greek root for "theism" is "theos". "Atheos" then, in modern usage, means "no/without belief in god". But just like the word "theos" (god) is the root, literal meaning of "theism", so too, "atheos"(no god), is the root word for "atheism". That's why when you look in a dictionary, or encyclopaedia under the word "atheism", they list the Greek, literal meaning as, "a denial of god(s)."


End of quote...

However for those who find the term atheist distasteful how  about Ignorist ...

http://bridgingschisms.org/2008/10/ignostic-igtheists-or-weak-atheists/

Metta Zenda
"The most essential method which includes all other methods is beholding the mind. The mind is the root from which all things grow. If you can understand the mind, everything else is included !"   :icon_yes:
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Guantanamera

Quote from: Maddie Secutura on May 05, 2011, 06:03:21 PM
Just like the title says.  Unicorns can't be proven to exist but I don't consider myself an Aequuscornist (Away from horse with horn if my latin roots serve me correctly).  Why should a god hypothesis have such sway as to describe me? Metaphysical Naturalist is a much better term (at least for me). 

If something supernatural exists, that means it should be able to be measured.  Whether or not we have an instrument capable of measuring it remains to be seen.  After all we didn't always have geiger counters but there was something around those uranium deposits making people sick.  It was considered a supernatural occurance but now we know the mechanism causing it.  Therefore I make no claim as to whether or not something exists, only whether observed phenomena point to it's existence.  For example, our observations about genetics and the fossil record point to evolution.  If magic were recorded to exist, it would have to have an underlying natural mechanism that allows it to exist.  If ghosts exist, they can be measured.  We might not have the necessary instruments, but if we did then we'd be able to recorde them.  Some might ask about EVP and those blurry photographs.  A simpler explanation is our brain being good at identifying patterns.  What allows for the photons given off by spirits to be captured by camera film and yet lets them evade the human eye?  Are they hitting our retinas and our brains simply dismiss them?  If we want to think of the supernatural as real then these are the questions we need to be asking. 

Current facts, and by facts I mean such as "things fall down" or a "rolling ball eventually stops" or "people who live near a certain location in the woods are always getting sick," are explained by things we make up such as "gravity" or "friction" or "ionizing radiation from a uranium deposit."  If you think about it, "god did it" is another thing we can make up to explain these things.  But "god did it" lacks predictive power.  If I know the properties of a certain thing such as surface roughness, which are again are qualifiers we make up to describe what has been observed about said thing, then applying the roughness to my friction theory, I can predict an observation, otherwise known as a fact.  To say god makes the ball stop rolling says nothing for the behavior of the next several balls I roll. 

We can apply this to intelligent design (ID) vs evolution.  Given: there is a species moths living in a forest.  Within this species is a dark grey and a light grey variety.  Normally there are equal portions of light and dark real estate so they can both survive equally well.  You might say that these two were intelligently designed for that habitat.  But via evolutionary theory, it is hypothesized that there are light and dark grey moths because all other less fit varieties died out.  Say we find the remains of past less fit varieties (which were a startling shade of electric blue).  It's looking good for evolution as it predicted the extinction of less favorable traits for the given surrounding.

Using the predictive power of evolutionary theory we can say that if something were to happen to the surrounding or a mutation is more benificial to survival, that trait will be passed on.  So say a nearby volcano spreads a layer of light grey ash across everything.  Of course the light grey variety still blends in while the dark grey stick out.  The birds who like to eat these moths have an easy time finding the dark grey ones and after a while they all get eaten.  Now the species consists of only light grey moths. 

But say a few dark grey moths were born with a mutation that allowed them to move really really fast.  They would evade the birds.  They now have a good survival strategy.  The speedy survivors will pass that trait on to their children. Eventually you'll get two separate species of moths, the dark fast ones, and the light stealty ones.  Evolution predicted that a new species could emerge.  ID says that any new species would have to be designed by a designer (if it says new species can emerge at all).  Evolution is supported in this case and we have no choice but to reject ID.  (Note that these two theories are mutually exclusive but not a dichotomy.  Disproving one will not necessarily prove the other but proving one will disprove the other or so ID proponents would like to believe.)

Some theists do display scientific rigor.  They change their hypothesis to match observations.  The literal interpretation of every creation myth falls short when it comes to the age and observed formation of the universe.  So theists change from a literal view to god made the big bang.  Maybe some day we will be able to measure divinity if it exists.  At that point, however, it will cease to be a supernatural phenomenon and will be considered part of the natural world.  That's why I call myself a Metaphysical Naturalist: there is no supernatural.

TL;DR? Don't fret, all you need to know is

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