stepping off a cliff

[Amykins]

That's what it feels like, what I have to do today. I've accepted a job that has an incredibly intrusive application process, which is going to disclose my gender history today, and in so doing perhaps cost me the job.

They have told me they already hired me, I just have to complete all the paperwork for that's required, background checks and all that, plus they want documentation of my education, which unavoidably reveals my sex change.

They can react to this badly or not. This job is caring for developmentally disabled persons in a live-in home setting. They interviewed me after seeing my resume, and hired me on the spot, obviously having no clue I'd ever been anything but a woman.

For them to now reverse themselves and deny me the job because  I changed my sex 13 years ago would clearly be discrimination based on prejudice, ignorance, and bigotry.

These people obviously regard themselves as compassionate and caring liberals... but it's been my experience that many people adopt that as a mask in order to look good. They pretend to it out of political and social expedience, while being inwardly as hateful as the worst redneck bigot.

So I don't know what will happen in the next few hours, and I might have a wonderful job and a bright future, or I could once again be the victim of ignorance and bigotry.

Wish me luck...

a.

[Ann Onymous]

educational documents can be changed.  It is something that should be done when other documents are being changed.  Once changed, the schools that I attended under a different name do not have a transcript reference to the old name. 

I would have changed high school records as well except the school no longer exists...

Regardless of what happens with this particular job, you really ought to ensure that ALL documents get changed so that you do not have to go through the issue again.

[Amykins]

Yes, well there is not time to change those documents at this point, and then there's the problem of a former employer who insists on outing me anyway, so there's no getting out of it.

I worked there for 16 years and it's the biggest and best reference on my resume, so I have to use it, and they are going to out me just as they did on my letter of employment, in which they made a point of saying I'd worked under my former name there.

So whether I get those documents changed or not the University is always going to out me to employers if I use them as a job reference and the new employer calls them.

This is the first time since transition it's come up. Anyway, thanks for beating me over the head with what I should have done once again.

A big help that....very supportive of you....

[Karynm8621]

It would be considered gender discrimination if they change it and that has been successfully used in lawsuits.

[Ann Onymous]

Yes, well there is not time to change those documents at this point, and then there's the problem of a former employer who insists on outing me anyway, so there's no getting out of it.

How quickly are they needing transcripts?  It literally is something that could be done by the end of the week. 

I worked there for 16 years and it's the biggest and best reference on my resume, so I have to use it, and they are going to out me just as they did on my letter of employment, in which they made a point of saying I'd worked under my former name there.

Is this a letter from the actual supervisor or the HR department at the university?  If it is the HR department, then the personnel file should be reflecting whatever name was on the court order that served to effect the change of name.  If it is the direct supervisor, then perhaps a better workaround in the future is to simply list the generic HR contact. 

So whether I get those documents changed or not the University is always going to out me to employers if I use them as a job reference and the new employer calls them.

see above...the issue often has a workaround. 

This is the first time since transition it's come up. Anyway, thanks for beating me over the head with what I should have done once again.

A big help that....very supportive of you....

way to read something in there that was not intended...but in the interim, your sarcasm is duly noted. 

[Ann Onymous]

It would COULD be considered gender discrimination if they change it and that has been successfully used in lawsuits.

Not necessarily gender-based discrimination...those are generally a case-by-case review. 

Much would also depend on what specific questions were asked in the employment process.  As an example, although a different field, the Bar occasionally will ask for other names used during a lifetime while some States only ask about the past X number of years.  Because each State Bar asked different information (not an uncommon occurrence even with law school apps), some people ran into issues on the C&F (character and fitness) portions of the process because the application omitted something that has been asked.  This applies to other elements of the app process as well... 

[Suzy]

I am sorry that I have no real words of wisdom, other than to say many of us are with you for support.  I am hoping all will be fine for you.  Please let us know what happens.

Hugs!

Kristi

[Amykins]

Well as it turned out they have no problem at all with my gender history, but they do need a copy of my GED, and I have to have it by the end of the week or they can't hire me. They have to move to fill a position. So I have to get with the VA because I was in the army when I got my GED, and it was through them, and I have to get a copy of that or I don't get this really great job.

I'm sure it can be done, and I'll prolly have it in a couple days if no snags come up.

Is there an ignore list on here?

[Melody Maia]

Well as it turned out they have no problem at all with my gender history, but they do need a copy of my GED, and I have to have it by the end of the week or they can't hire me. They have to move to fill a position. So I have to get with the VA because I was in the army when I got my GED, and it was through them, and I have to get a copy of that or I don't get this really great job.

I'm sure it can be done, and I'll prolly have it in a couple days if no snags come up.

Is there an ignore list on here?

Yes there is. Go to your profile and under the "Modify Profile" tab there is a "Buddies/Ignore list" option.

[Amykins]

Thank you Melody, I found it, so that's taken care of. Now I just have to dig up a copy of my GED within the week and I'll have a great new job, if I can get it that fast. I took the test back in 1973 and have never needed a copy of the certificate until now. I hope I can get it in time, I really need this job!

[Suzy]

Amy, with all of the obstacles you have overcome, I just know you can do this!  Congratulations!

[Amykins]

I am sorry that I have no real words of wisdom, other than to say many of us are with you for support.  I am hoping all will be fine for you.  Please let us know what happens.

Hugs!

Kristi

Thank you Kristi, I very much appreciate that.

[rejennyrated]

Thank you Kristi, I very much appreciate that.

Different countries and different problems but I too have just come back from a job interview which I would KILL for the chance to do! The interview went well, but there is stiff competition.

So I fully sympathise with what you are feeling now and I just wanted to wish you the very best of luck and every success.

[Amykins]

Thank you so much rejennyrated, this job means a lot to me. I have spent the last 7 years in extreme poverty and hardship after my job as a systems administrator was outsourced, and getting this job would mean finally rising above that misery and actually being middle class again.

It now all depends on one little piece of paper, which, if I can get it in time, will give me a bright new future. If not, well I guess I keep slogging on...

[spacial]

Amy.

I can't begin to say how happy I am for you.

I'm sure all of us can completely understand how you felt. The self doubt and aprehension. We all know, of course, that with such a vulnerable client group, they would do extensive checks on anyone. It doesn't mean you won't feel so insecure.

But it's turned out as it should. They made the right decision. They hired the best person for the job.

[Amykins]

If they in fact do hire....maybe they saw the "change", decided they didn't want to hire, but couldn't easily back out (discrimination suit)...so they come up with "find this random  document (GED) from damn near 40 years ago, that no one ever actually looks at or cares about...and when she can't produce it, we can say we can't hire her."

Sorry, but my paranoia-radar just went off. Hope you get the job...I've never had anyone ask for my GED (from 30 years ago)

Hey Beth Andrea, I thought of the same thing, but when I went there yesterday they told me they HAD to have a copy of my GED before I disclosed my gender history, which I had to tell them about because my GED is in my former name. Now I suppose it's possible that they had already called the university and found out that I transitioned there, then pulled this, but I doubt it.

I guess I'll know if they come up with another very hard to get thing for me to chase after when I get them the copy of my GED.

[Ann Onymous]

If they in fact do hire....maybe they saw the "change", decided they didn't want to hire, but couldn't easily back out (discrimination suit)...so they come up with "find this random  document (GED) from damn near 40 years ago, that no one ever actually looks at or cares about...and when she can't produce it, we can say we can't hire her."

Sorry, but my paranoia-radar just went off. Hope you get the job...I've never had anyone ask for my GED (from 30 years ago)

Care-related industries have gotten to the point to where they will invariably do full-background checks to ensure protection in a potential liability suit.  There have been too many problems with people who got into the field specifically to take advantage of the infirmed and who should/would have been weeded out with a thorough background check.  If you have responsibilities for another person through your job responsibilities, then more is required than a simple resume.   

I don't see anything nefarious with the document requests...and it is not at all uncommon to have to produce proof of education claimed.  If one has a college education, then that transcript generally suffices but if there is not a college transcript, then they need proof of high school graduation or equivalency.   

[Amykins]

Amy.

I can't begin to say how happy I am for you.
But it's turned out as it should. They made the right decision. They hired the best person for the job.

Well don't be all that happy for me just yet, I've not been able to get them that copy of my GED yet, and I don't know that I can get it in time. What strikes me as very odd here is that he gave me a week to get a copy of my GED, and if I don't have it by then no job, even though he told me he's constantly looking for people and always has ads out there.

Why the 7 day deadline?

So what? I can't be hired in the future because I couldn't get a copy of my GED in a week? That doesn't make sense at all. Once I have it and that requirement is satisfied shouldn't I be eligible for an opening with them? It's not like I did some bad thing that disqualifies me.

[spacial]

Well don't be all that happy for me just yet, I've not been able to get them that copy of my GED yet, and I don't know that I can get it in time. What strikes me as very odd here is that he gave me a week to get a copy of my GED, and if I don't have it by then no job, even though he told me he's constantly looking for people and always has ads out there.

Why the 7 day deadline?

So what? I can't be hired in the future because I couldn't get a copy of my GED in a week? That doesn't make sense at all. Once I have it and that requirement is satisfied shouldn't I be eligible for an opening with them? It's not like I did some bad thing that disqualifies me.

I honesly can't provide you with any explaination. Equally, I have no knowledge of the sytems you use in that part of the world, so don't know what a GED is. Though I do appreciate that Americans do seem to have a love of certifications and such.

I do hope there will be something you can do, at the very least to find a way to get the job offer held open.

[Amykins]

Actually I'm 56, and got my GED when I was 18, and in the pre-computer days, so yes, it might prove impossible to find. The more I think about it the more it looks like they pulled this GED business and gave me a week to get it knowing I couldn't so they could deny me the job.

Well I think that if they pulled this GED requirement on me as a sneaky means of discriminating that's fine, because I don't want to work for those kinds of people anyway, and I've already contacted one of my other options, who called me back and said they would welcome me with open arms to care for their mother.

It's another paid live-in caretaker position, not as much money, but still it's a job and a home in one. I expect I'll end up taking that one.