The big Transgender LIE

[Natasha]

The big Transgender LIE

http://ben-girl-notesfromthetside.blogspot.com/2011/06/big-transgender-lie.html
6/2/11
By Elizabeth

What is the big transgender lie?  It is simple actually. One will never read or listen to a speech by a transgender activist dealing with public opinion where they tell the truth about what being transgender means in total. The implications are ignored and a classic case of obfuscation is presented. If there is one thing I am impressed with when finding TG activists is they are really good at lying.  You change transgender to what it really means, transsexual, transvestite, cross-dresser, gender variant, and wonder how much support they would get? Not a lot actually based on personal experience in my world which is basically hetero-normal.

[spacial]

It is a matter of life or death for most transsexuals while it is a matter of sexual arousal for many of the others but not all of them but it is not a life altering decision for anyone but transsexuals.

Disagree.

The claim is that

and skip the fact that 90+ percent of the transgender crowd is fetishistic transvestites, cross-dressers, cross-dreamers, and gender variant people with only the remaining 10% being just you plain old garden variety transsexual ranging in age from kids to older adults.

This is a silly approach and one which can only create more problems.

All people must be permitted to express themselves, freely.  A man in a cowboy hat is expressing himself. The confines should be the same for all.

Gender expression, however it is manefest or its purpose, should be defensible. Those that use anything, gender expression or any other expression, for inappropriate sexual behaviour are not acceptable. But people who choose to express who they are in their appearance are expressing individuality and the pursuit of happiness.

If we seek to exclude those that don't, haven't or can't actively seek surgical transformation, we necessarily apply subjective judgement and random regulation.

At the risk of repeating myself I strongly support the unberella notion of transgender, applying to all. I strongly support blanket protection from harrisment or discrimination based upon self expression, applying to all.

I also sincerely hope that other will feel free to offer any counter arguments.

[Muffins]

[cynthialee]

I thought we were going to leave this one alone for awhile...........

[cynthialee]

Hugs to everyone.

[spacial]

I thought we were going to leave this one alone for awhile...........

To be fair, I don't think we did nor do I see any reason why we should.

We are all mature adults. We are all most certainly quite intelegent. It really shouldn't be beyond any of us to form cogent arguments without getting upset about others.

And this is an incredably important issue.

We, all of us, are at a crossroads. We have achieved legitmacy from so many quarters. If someone had told me, even 3 years ago, that the Dept of Heath would sanction the use of pubatry blockers I think I would have chocked on my organic veal and actually fallen silent for a moment. (Might have been worth it really).

Society seems ready to ask us how we seek to be adressed. Perhaps we should seriously think about this and treat the world with the respect it is trying to show to us.

[tekla]

A dream you dream alone is only a dream.
A dream you dream together is reality.
    John Lennon

[cynthialee]

In the last week we have had a number of people who were not even involved in the discussion get upset and leave in disgust.
This has proved to be too hot of a topic to pursue at this point.

Please just let it be. Notice that no one else is actually talking about the original post.

[kate durcal]

GID is a separate diagnosis than  fetishistic transvestism(FTV). Problem is that GID only covers TS and non-specified TS; there is no category for: non-fetishistic transvestites, and the other "transgender" denominations.

I will bet that if were to take a poll on those non-TS transgender individuals at Susan's we will find that the vast majority do not identify themselves as fetishistic transvestites.

We and the medical community need to come with some new definitions that are based on reality. Do keep Blanchard out of the discussion

[Tammy Hope]

without getting too deeply into my views - as long as a long discussion doesn't break out - I think part of the problem is that when folks start speaking to the topic, they often confuse the issues.

for instance, there's a distinct difference in trying to define, for clarity's sake (for the ill-informed cis-friend) the difference in TS and the other TG sub-categories, and saying you do not want to be associated with the "others" in an activist sense.

There's a difference in saying - correctly in my view - that there's a distinction between a TS in transition having protections to dress as the target gender on the job and protections for a recreational cross-dresser do do so just because they enjoy it - and saying that you don't give a care about the concerns of the non-TS folks under the TG umbrella.

it's only rational to recognize divergent concerns. That does not mean a person who does is engaged in "throwing people under the bus"

I CAN state confidently that a transitioning TS NEEDS legal protections that go beyond what is practical regarding non-TS gender expression - and at the same time affirm that there IS a considerable spectrum of was in which a gender variant expression needs protection as well.

for one example - while I defend in the strongest terms my right to dress appropriately to my target gender in the workplace, I do not believe the law should recognize the same right for the recreational cross-dresser (i.e. a man who enjoys a female gender expression on occasion, but has no desire to alter their physical sex - or vice-versa) however at the same time, I strongly defend that persons right to not lose standing on the job because of what they do on their own time.

Different situations, different concerns, but both in need of legal protections specific to their situation.  That's not an "My problem is more legit that your problem" attitude.

However, it's been my observation in at least some of these discussions that between folks making unwarranted assumptions about what other people are "really" saying, and people not being on the same page about what exactly they are talking about, you end up getting a lot more heat than light.

[tekla]

Freedom for me, but not for thee.  Got it.

Most movements are destroyed from within.  Just sayin'.

[Tammy Hope]

Freedom for everyone.

But conditions different depending on different conditions.

For instance, we do not have complete freedom for nudists. if the VP of your local bank shows up naked and says "Hey, I'm a nudist, accommodate me" he will not have his job protected.

One can argue whether or not we SHOULD be that open - but we're not.

It is not oppression to take note of differing conditions and set your policies accordingly.  nor is it throwing people under the bus, or trying to elevate yourself by judging others, or any other such thing.

And to be clear, I'm NOT one of those raising a stink in every corner saying "no not THIS label, THAT one" - I'm just standing on the sideline and making a rational observation.

[kate durcal]

In my opinion the law should protect us all TG people including TS, FTV, non fetishistic transvestites, and the other variations. We are own those protection under our constitutional right to "the purse of happiness."

For example if you are cross dressed and you are beaten by a thug, what difference makes why you were cross dressed? It is not like the thug is going to ask you why you are cross dressed, and then as a well informed thug, not beat because you are a TS.

Another logical analogy would be like saying that the "ethnic intimidation laws" should apply only to dark-skinned African Americans, and not to the light-skinned ones; well? do you think that a racist white supremacist is going to be analyzing the degree of pigmentation before attacking that person?

Kate D

[Ann Onymous]

For example if you are cross dressed and you are beaten by a thug, what difference makes why you were cross dressed? It is not like the thug is going to ask you why you are cross dressed, and then as a well informed thug, not beat because you are a TS.

The problem with 'hate crime' statutes is they create an additional burden on the State when it comes to the prosecution precisely because you now have to PROVE motivating thoughts.  Instead, it is far better for the State to simply focus on prosecution of the very provable charge of Aggravated Assault causing Serious Bodily Injury or whatever title applies in other States (AA w/SBI is a 2nd degree felony in Texas punishable by up to 20 years in the pen). 

I'll leave the balance of the original topic at hand alone since my guess is that, by now, most know very well where I stand on the issue...

[kate durcal]

Ann,

That was just an example; we are talking about all the laws TG people need to be protected, housing, jobs, intiidtion, violence, etc. We need not discuss just how current laws could be used in special circumstance to prosecute a crime that wa motivated by transgender hate.

The point of this thread is to debate whether the TG umbrellas should be extended only to TS, or be inclusive.

Please stick to the thread, what is you opinion on this very important subject?

Kate D

Kate

[justmeinoz]

I can't help asking why Americans have to classify everyone and everything to within an inch of it's life? 
Why is it so important? Given the social conditions reported by so many of my brothers and sisters here, it's a bit like fighting for the best seats on the Titanic.
I am beginning to think that there is a class system in operation that is worse than anything in the countries earlier generations left, to go to the USA.
A genuinely puzzled Karen.

[kate durcal]

Extending your umbrella to cover the needy is a in my opinion an act of compassion, it is what Jesus would have done, it s what Buddha teach us, it is the "American way."

Kate D

[Ann Onymous]

Ann,

That was just an example; we are talking about all the laws TG people need to be protected, housing, jobs, intiidtion, violence, etc. We need not discuss just how current laws could be used in special circumstance to prosecute a crime that wa motivated by transgender hate.

It may have been 'just an example' but it was nonetheless the example YOU chose to introduce.  I simply illustrated the problem when one tries to craft carve-outs in the law to create special categories.

The point of this thread is to debate whether the TG umbrellas should be extended only to TS, or be inclusive.

Please stick to the thread, what is you opinion on this very important subject?

It has been made abundantly clear in my short time on this board that my views on the subject were not wanted precisely because I do not subscribe to the 'collective's' school of thought. Hence my deliberately having stayed away from getting more specific in my earlier response. 

[cynthialee]

I am getting so very sick and tired of this topic coming up again and again.

We have aproximatly 70% of the people (side A) and 25% of the people (side B) in a serious disagreement with no quarter given or taken on either side. Which leaves about 5% of the others who give a squat about this topic being alienated from both sides.

We need to start looking to the things that bind us togather. Not the things that set us apart from eachother.

**hugs**

[kate durcal]

It may have been 'just an example' but it was nonetheless the example YOU chose to introduce.  I simply illustrated the problem when one tries to craft carve-outs in the law to create special categories.

It has been made abundantly clear in my short time on this board that my views on the subject were not wanted precisely because I do not subscribe to the 'collective's' school of thought. Hence my deliberately having stayed away from getting more specific in my earlier response.

Well, this is a different thread, and a s long as we keep a civilized conversation, I think we can debate different view points. So, state why you object to extending the protections TS could achieved to fetishistic transvestites and other non-TS TG individuals? Make you case.

Kate D