identity confusion, all over again

[Mika]

Most of my life, I've been gender-confused. At some points, it was more obvious, and at others I didn't know why I felt so dysphoric. This past year I've brought gender conflicts and dysphoria purposely into the realm of conscious introspection, as it had been off-limits in my own mind before. I thought I'd settled into a male identity just this past month or so, but now I'm a little confused again. I don't think I have an entirely binary identity.

In my own head, I kind of think of myself as a genderqueer man...but I'm not sure if that's a contradiction of terms or appropriation of another identity. I prefer male pronouns and being perceived as male or with confusion, but never female. I am on my way to start T late this year or the next, as my body as it is causes me a lot of dysphoria. Sometimes my chest causes me a lot of dysphoria, but at other times I want a male body with breasts . At times I hate my vagina and feel sick to my stomach that I will never have a penis, but others I am ok with it and only want testosterone-induced growth, and still others I think of myself as inter-structured (or wish I was). I want facial hair and a deeper voice, but I have been mourning my female name a little (though I like my male name a lot, too).

My gender expression varies sometimes, between masculine, slightly feminine and androgynous. Most of the time I feel closest to male and masculine, though I try not to filter myself when I don't. It feels kind of like my identity is slippery, and even my body can shift, in perspective at least. It makes me really nervous. It causes me the most trouble in my relationship, as I recently came out, since I can't pin down the "rules" in terms of intimacy, identity and terms; the rules seem to change on me a lot.

I apologize for the long post...I haven't spent any time on the androgyne board here (mostly just the ftm board), and I wanted to start. I am working this stuff out, and it's been causing me some mental distress. Talking to people who could maybe relate or offer insights would be cool.

Also, is it identity appropriation if I like to think of myself as a genderqueer man? If so, is there a term I should use instead?

[Sevan]

I think perhaps "gender fluid man" might be more appropriate based on what you've described here...but really it's about trying things on and seeing what fits.
My first thought is that it sounds like maybe your experiencing times of dysphoria let up. That can actually be really really confusing!! When your dysphoria has shaped so much of your identity...and then it let's up some...well that's been known to have alot of people question themselves (me included! And I know my honey went through this as well)
Can't tell you where you fit on this spectrum of gender but it's great that your being open and exploring all that's out there.

[cynthialee]

I think Mikah is a good title for you.....

Have you talked to your gender therapist about these feelings?

[caseyy]

Interesting. I began to ID more as androgyne than male after my dysphoria lessened up slightly. It's still there, work absolutely needs to be done, but it has had an effect on how I think about myself. It's freeing, but slightly concerning at times because it makes me think I must be an absolute nutcase.

Anyway, what you said makes sense to me, Mikah. I'll probably drop by with a better thought out reply after school today.

[ativan]

It's just my way of thinking, but I don't think you need to put man on the end of any description. Genderqueer, genderfluid, etc stand on their own nicely and makes that label box more roomy for yourself.
The labels aren't nearly as important as one would assume, but it is a part of dysphoria. As it lessens, the Androgyne/Genderqueer world becomes more apparent as to what it is really like. Labels are the last thing that matters. You, your name, and a how's it going are most highly rated in conversations. But, until you become comfortable with yourself, Your questions are the most important thing right now. There are more answers than questions around here, it's just that way. Welcome.
Ativan

[Mika]

Thanks all for the input, I really appreciate it.  Sorry for my delay in response, I had three finals yesterday. And now...time for an omni-reply!

I think perhaps "gender fluid man" might be more appropriate based on what you've described here...but really it's about trying things on and seeing what fits.
My first thought is that it sounds like maybe your experiencing times of dysphoria let up. That can actually be really really confusing!! When your dysphoria has shaped so much of your identity...and then it let's up some...well that's been known to have alot of people question themselves (me included! And I know my honey went through this as well)
Can't tell you where you fit on this spectrum of gender but it's great that your being open and exploring all that's out there.

That may be a more appropriate term, I think I'll adopt it, at least as a temporary replacement. Oy, it is confusing. I'm glad you pointed that out, it was helpful. I think I'll try to be more aware of the link between dysphoria and my shifting identity.

I think Mikah is a good title for you.....

Have you talked to your gender therapist about these feelings?

I have a little bit, but not this directly. Unfortunately, I'm moving in with my parents for the summer on Saturday, and I won't have another chance until I find a new therapist in my hometown. It's an unfortunate time to start over, but oh well. I definitely will bring this up.

@Casey Leon: I'd be interested to hear more about your experience, if it is convenient. Sometimes I wonder if I clung to a binary male identity was somewhat motivated by dysphoria, and not entirely because of totally identifying as simply a guy. But then again I'm motivated to settle into a non-binary identity because my SO would be more comfortable with that...ugh, trying to sort out dysphoria, gender confusion and ulterior motives.

@Ativan: I'm not one to stress too much about labels, I'm really more concerned with sorting out my identity confusion. Words to describe that to others are secondary, to me. I made a point of asking about the appropriateness of "genderqueer man" because I wasn't sure if I was appropriating a non-binary identity if I tacked on "man" at the end. Can one be genderqueer and identify in some way as male as well? I don't want to police anyone else's identity, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't offensive or harmful to the community for me to use that phrase while I'm still sorting things out.

[Pica Pica]

Interesting. I began to ID more as androgyne than male after my dysphoria lessened up slightly. It's still there, work absolutely needs to be done, but it has had an effect on how I think about myself. It's freeing, but slightly concerning at times because it makes me think I must be an absolute nutcase.

I found this.

The dysphoric feeling has almost withered away, but I still wonder whether I'm a nutcase.

[LightlyLuke]

I like the phrase gender fluid.

And I don't think either of you are nutcases. I think gender rigid people are more nutcasier, but that's just me.

(Unless you WANT to be nutcases! Some people are proud of their nutcasery and I'm not intending to slight anyone.)

[espo]

I like the phrase gender fluid.

And I don't think either of you are nutcases. I think gender rigid people are more nutcasier, but that's just me.

(Unless you WANT to be nutcases! Some people are proud of their nutcasery and I'm not intending to slight anyone.)

This is beautiful. LOL

[Laurry]

Hi Mika,

While types and labels are handy, they all come with a certain set of assumptions.  Try on several and see which ones come closest to how you feel about yourself, but always reserve the right to change or ignore parts, or pick a new label altogether.  Early on my journey, I spent a lot of time trying to identify who I really was, what labels matched closest, and what caused me to be the way I was.  This was even more of a question as I was almost 50 before I finally began to understand why I never really fit in all these years.  The more detailed my identifications, the more typecast I felt and the more granular I had to get in order to truly identify my proper label. 

One day, it dawned on me that I could spend my life continually wandering in this self-exploration, or I could step outside my door, be myself and actually enjoy the fact that I am...whatever it is that I am.  I adopted the label that I am transgender.  If pressed more, the deepest I will admit is that I am really neither male nor female, but somewhere in between.  Any other option requires too much effort to explain and usually just bores the heck out of everyone involved.

Additionally, as soon as I thought I had things figured out, something would happen to make me change my mind.  I'm too lazy for all that...trust me...and I just decided to be however it is I want to be.  Sometimes that is more masculine in appearance (especially at work...my choice...I like being employed), and sometimes more feminine, but never fully one or another.  I take the roles and traits I like, and ignore the ones I don't.  There is a great sense of freedom in this and I have found that the more comfortable I am with myself, the more people I meet seem to be comfortable around me.  No, not everyone, but then I wasn't loved and adored by everyone before I began my transition, (as hard as that is to believe  ), so I'm not sure there really is that much difference.

I guess what I'm saying is that it is important to understand who you are, who you think you want to be, and some of the actions you can take to help get you there, but life has a way of saying "Beeeeeep, wrong.  Guess again."  I know it is cliche to say, but don't worry about where you will end up...you'll eventually get wherever it is you need to be, and it probably won't be anywhere close to where you thought you would end up.  Instead, enjoy the trip...it's really all we have.

.....Laurry

[ativan]

This really sticks in my head, especially when dysphoria and questions of just what gender labelbox do I fit in. It may sound easier than it looks, and maybe it is.....  I find it truthful to an extent above all labelboxes. It hasn't a label itself. It just is...

Gender has no meaning or value if it is counterfeit.
Counterfeit gender is just a game, a trick, an amusement,
an act, a fraud, a deception, an imitation, artificial, bogus.

Be yourself, not a gender.
Being yourself is effortless and genuine.
Being yourself is REAL, not counterfeit.
In being yourself, in behaving in a manner which is natural to you,
whatever gender you are becomes self-evident.

-Emerald

[Mika]

Laurry - I think this is really good advice, and a good attitude on life. I think it's easier said than done, but worth striving for in the sense of not getting caught up in defining who I am, and just being. I need to learn to be more flexible about being "wrong," and not worrying if things shift or my understanding of myself shifts.

Gender has no meaning or value if it is counterfeit.
Counterfeit gender is just a game, a trick, an amusement,
an act, a fraud, a deception, an imitation, artificial, bogus.

Be yourself, not a gender.
Being yourself is effortless and genuine.
Being yourself is REAL, not counterfeit.
In being yourself, in behaving in a manner which is natural to you,
whatever gender you are becomes self-evident.

-Emerald

This is really eloquently put, and very insightful. I really want to adopt this kind of attitude. Thank you for sharing!

[Laurry]

Laurry - I think this is really good advice, and a good attitude on life. I think it's easier said than done, but worth striving for in the sense of not getting caught up in defining who I am, and just being. I need to learn to be more flexible about being "wrong," and not worrying if things shift or my understanding of myself shifts.

Some of the hardest things in life can be explained so easily.  I remember reading a book called "Inner Tennis" where the author made the comment that it was easy to win at Wimbledon...all you had to do was hit the ball back, inside the lines, every time it was hit to you.

This whole mess is still jumbled in your mind.  It takes a while to sort it out and several "I'm sure this is it, this time" attempts that fall flat on their faces.  No big deal...it happens to everyone.  Ativan's quote was spot on...just be yourself.  The only time we really fail is when we try to be someone else.

OK...I'm turning of the cliche machine now...Oy Vey!

As for me, right now I'm still in the middle of trying to figure out if it is my gender that makes me so rebellious, or if it my rebellion that makes me not want to be pinned down by gender.  In the end, I know that it really doesn't matter, but that doesn't keep me from getting lost sometimes.

......Laurry

[Gabby]

Emerald, I'm really glad someone else has a very close ethos to my own

[ativan]

Ativan's quote was spot on...just be yourself.

The Quote is from Emerald, I've used it a few times but, maybe I should enlarge and use block letters for Emerald

[Gabby]

Great quote then Ativan haha

I'd still have thought it was your nickname because of the nature of the prose haha