OK, so I'm an FTM transsexual, but I've always been into women. I'm relatively new to this site, but I have noticed that a lot of the guys on here are interested in men. Is this normal? I know "normal", especially to this crowd is not even close to an appropriate word to describe things... but...
When I was in a female body, I was only attracted to females. As a male body, I still am only attracted to females.
I guess what I'm trying to understand is.. If you are an FTM and attracted to males, were you attracted to males while you were female bodied? Were you attracted to females while female bodied and now attracted to males while you're male bodied?
I understand not being comfortable in your skin and needing to be the other gender... but wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?
I'm sorry if this seems rudimentary, or foolish in any way. I just simply don't get it. It really seems like a lot of these posts relate to "boyfriends".
I can't imagine I'm the only straight FTM out there...right? .... tell me some of you still love women....?
I'm straight.
Gay FTMs are extremely common. Some gay ftms had previous interest in men and others did not.
Don't worry – in the past years, the protocol for a FTM was a butch lesbian identification as a woman and a straight male identification as a man. Thankfully, we have progressed past that generalization. I grew up liking men, and idolizing them on top of that, and I still like the idea of being a man with a man. I don't like the idea of being a woman with anyone. I have mostly been with women, though. I find myself attracted to them, but on an individual basis, whereas with men it's more... Widespread. I guess I can love anyone, anyone at all, but I always found myself most attracted to men. It doesn't matter much to me anymore, though.
I am pre-T and pre-everything, but right now I just live as... Me. I don't identify as lesbian, or a straight woman, either. I identify mostly as a gay male, but a bisexual...pansexual male above all. I assume it will be just the same when I start physical transition.
Like Mister said some liked men all along but sexuality does shift so an attraction to men can grow. Gender and sexuality are 2 different things so while issues with your gender might affect your sexuality they don't actually go hand in hand.
Also there's a big difference between being with another man as a man and as a woman. In fact it'd make my GID worse having to play the role of the woman.
It's all about being who you are. If who you are is a man who likes men then nothing should stop you from being who you are.
Quote from: Osiris on June 24, 2009, 11:41:25 PM
Like Mister said some liked men all along but sexuality does shift so an attraction to men can grow. Gender and sexuality are 2 different things so while issues with your gender might affect your sexuality they don't actually go hand in hand.
Also there's a big difference between being with another man as a man and as a woman. In fact it'd make my GID worse having to play the role of the woman.
It's all about being who you are. If who you are is a man who likes men then nothing should stop you from being who you are.
I agree completely. There is no right answer. You can be asexual, pansexual, bisexual, homosexual or heterosexual and by any definition you so please. Really, these definitions are here to assist
us in defining ourselves rather than existing as completely concrete.
Here's my situation, I guess:
I'd say I'm definitely most attracted to men, but it's weird when I'm in public looking male (I'm at a crossroads right now), I find myself thinking of girls having the impression that I might be attracted to them, even though I'm not really attracted to women.... if that makes any sense. I also think it would have been nice to be a father, or have a female partner, but not really in a sexual or even romantic sense :icon_blink:. Well, to sum it up, I think in my case my dysphoria has caused me to almost be repulsed by the female body and female sexuality, so any chance of me being more attracted to them has flown out the window, so long as my body stays the way it is (pre-everything).
Quote from: mudd on June 24, 2009, 11:18:40 PM
but wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?
Yeah, but if you're ftm, you know that gender identity isn't the same thing as sexual orientation. So yeah, logically and statistically, I'm sure it would be better for the gay guys to remain female. But, I'm also sure that they felt the same need to transition as I did. One of the questions we all go through on transition is "what if nobody ever loves me again?" and is it still worth it. For me it was. And I found a woman who loves me. Actually, she found me, but that's nitpicking :P
But if I hadn't found her, er been found, I still would have transitioned. I did transition, even without any hope of finding a partner. The same thing probably holds for gay guys.
Dennis
Your question is understandable, and one I've heard quite a bit before, even from other trans people. You're definitely not the only straight transguy. There are theories that state that one of the reasons there seems to statistically be fewer FTMs (though the ratio of MTF to FTM is probably far closer to being 1 to 1) is that FTMs are less likely to seek support, as it's seen as "weak" or "feminine." I don't know how much truth there is in that, but it could follow that that's why you find so many gay FTMs on support sites...they are probably less likely to worry about appearing "weak" by asking for support. That's just what I figure though, it may be completely wrong.
The only part of your post I take issue with is this:
Quote from: mudd on June 24, 2009, 11:18:40 PM
but wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?
It would certainly be easier, with regard to the homophobia present in society. But being trans, at least for me, is not about who I want to have sex with. It's about my relationship with my own body. To say that it would be "easier" to remain female implies that straight FTMs transition because it is "easier" to be a straight man than to be a lesbian. I know many guys would take offense at that implication, though I also know it's probably not one you were trying to make.
Easier from a dating standpoint, certainly. That was something I had to really stop and think about before I decided to transition. For me it came down to the fact that I could never really be myself if I was a woman. And what kind of relationship can you have if the very essence of who you are is invisible to your partner?
And yes, some people's sexuality does shift when they transition. More often than not that means they go from being straight to being ... er ... straight. That is, straight women to straight men. (Or vice versa.) For me, I went from being attracted primarily to men, to being even more strongly attracted to men once I started T. (Probably an increased libido thing. :icon_wink:)
Quote from: mudd on June 24, 2009, 11:18:40 PMI can't imagine I'm the only straight FTM out there...right? .... tell me some of you still love women....?
Here. Even though I'm (currently) married to a man. :-\
Ah, the joys of a "convenance" marriage.
There are plenty of men who love men, men who love women, and men who love both...or in some cases neither. Doesn't matter if us FTM's are a different flavour of men, we're still just men on the inside, so it's no different for us.
As for it being easier to stay female. Surely it's easier to stay female anyway, regardless of who you're attracted to. Transition is by no means easy, it's just something we have to do. Even if you're a straight trans guy you have to go through the whole explaining your past and your situation in the pants area :P You'd still have to find somebody who accepts that, regardless of gender.
Well, here's my take on it...
Online there seems to be a bigger population of homosexual FTMs but apparently not so much in support groups. Minorities always seem bigger than they are online because minorities usually have to turn to the Internet to find support.
Like others have said, orientation doesn't have much to do with being trans in general as it's an identity issue. We don't transition as a whole just so we can have sex with whoever we want, though that might be one concern for someone, it's not the issue entirely.
Women are theorized to be much more fluid in terms of sexuality. In general, women seem not to have a consistency to their orientation or sex drive much more often than men. Also, I think some pre-T gay FTMs might not necessarily like men, but rather they admire them so much and despise anything relating to their feminine parts that they take to men for these reasons. Then when they feel more comfortable in their body, they soon find out it wasn't that they like men, it was just that they either got off on the fact that the guy had what they desired or it was because since their body doesn't look as feminine to them anymore, they were able to consider women and men became less desirable or they found that they like both.
These are just some reasons and not every gay FTM is like that. Some have kept their sexuality even through transition, some straight FTMs have found themselves to be gay through transition.
Also, if one were to stay female and have a relationship with a man, it would not be the same as a gay relationship. Just because it is the same gender that is of interest does not mean the dynamic isn't different. That's the sole reason why I could never consider myself lesbian, the dynamic was just different.
Quote from: mudd on June 24, 2009, 11:18:40 PM
I understand not being comfortable in your skin and needing to be the other gender... but wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?
No. Other people have covered the "I need to be myself" part, let me cover another....
Straight men like women. They do not want a man with tits.Believe it or not, some gay FTM's aren't the makeup wearing neatly dressed fashionable effeminite type, and make REALLY unconvincing women. Some of us get read as straight guys (from a personality standpoint) until we say something that outs ourselves.
Disclaimer : I don't really identify as anything right now (I don't actually want to sleep with anyone) I do find myself attracted to men from time to time.
If someone's going to get my interest it's going to have to be someone I can relate to, share interests with, someone that impresses me on an intellectual and skillset level, and be fine with leaving me alone most of the time. I don't mean to be sexist - but I just don't think a woman would fit the criteria!
My sexuality hasn't changed from when I was living as female to now, though I am still pre-T. I'm open to the possibility of it changing - it isn't unheard of.
Perhaps orientation changes in some people due to T upping the sex drive (and physical attributes becoming much more important), or a lifting of repressed feelings?
Sexuality is fluid.
In my head, I always imagined myself as a man with a woman, intimately. But outwardly living as a woman, I could not imagine or let myself be with a woman. For me, I knew it didn't fit. As a woman, I dated men, married a man, had kids. But the role of wife and mother did NOT fit at all. But hey, life threw me lemons, I made lemonade! Now that I am perceived as male, I can NOT imagine myself in a relationship with a man, but a woman. Not that I see myself never being intimate with a man, I could, but not in a relationship. I suppose that technically makes me bi, but I don't like labels. Just as I don't like the trans label. Yes, I'm trans, but it's NOT my identity.
Jay
I'm sorry I must be having a blonde momment....... but did you say that you are male now and still attracted to women but thought you were gay???? now speaking in the PC corectiveness of our society, isn't that how it works men like women???? or did I go through some freeqie warp thinggy and thinks are different now......
I'm a flaming twink even if I'm pansexual,.. always have been.
Quote from: sneakersjay on June 25, 2009, 02:43:19 PM
In my head, I always imagined myself as a man with a woman, intimately. But outwardly living as a woman, I could not imagine or let myself be with a woman. For me, I knew it didn't fit. As a woman, I dated men, married a man... But the role of wife did NOT fit at all. Now that I am perceived as male, I can NOT imagine myself in a relationship with a man, but a woman.
:icon_eek:
The excerpts from your post is exactly how I feel right now. I didn't really think many would be able to relate.
I am now just a straight guy. Agree with everyone else who says gender and sexuality are two totaly different things.
Myles
I don't really get the point your trying to make :-\
sexuality and gender are two very different things and its not as if we can choose to be gay, hetero, man or woman.
I myself am a pan dude, pre everything, with a fluid sexuality although most of the time I prefer women.
You know, seeing as I often have extremely bitter feelings about sexuality in general (because of my GID, more than likely), I have to wonder whether I will like men after I have begun physically transitioning. Perhaps I idolize men to the point of feeling extremely interested in them, but I perceive it incorrectly. I have always been with women in relationships, as I like to feel I am in the male role. I would hate to be in a female role, or effeminate role, in any way, shape, or form. Perhaps when I feel less resentful of men and women (women because they reflect who I don't want to be, men because they reflect who I want to be and have felt I can't be) I might just be a straight male.
Who is to say?
In a sense, I just don't think I could turn someone down for gender.
Either way, if there are so many types of men, why can there not be so many different types of FTMs? We are men, after all. And in my opinion, it is not easier to be female, as I would not want to be with anyone as a woman... Thus, it completely negates sexuality in itself.
If I had a penny for every time someone said that to me... I've liked guys for as long as I've liked anyone. Never had the slightest attraction to a woman to this day (I'm almost seven months on T). It's like Dennis said: If I were doomed to never have a romantic relationship with anyone (which is the way it seems now, but that's another post :D) I am still a male person. Just one who happens to be attracted to other males.
No, I don't think it would have been easier to stay as a "straight female". I was far too fabulous to keep up that ruse a second longer! In all seriousness, though, my need for transition was not driven by trying to gain more societal acceptance, so moving down the hierarchy from straight female aaaaaaalllll the way down to gay trans-male didn't discourage me from pursuing it. I just wanted to be me, regardless of my attractions; just like you.
Straight FTMs in the minority! That's news to me. In my experience the opposite is almost always true. In fact, my ignorance of the existence of gay ftms probably set my transtition back about eight years...
As a bisexual guy, I have to admit to being somewhat offended by this post and its implications. Mudd, in your other posts, you say you are fully transitioned and have been for many years. In light of that, I would assume you understood that female-to-male transsexualism is a question of identity and not sexual orientation.
QuoteI understand not being comfortable in your skin and needing to be the other gender... but wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?
I know it has been said time and ime again but I do find this statement a little flawed. After all as so many of the other guys have said your gender has nothing to do with who you are sexually attracted to hence why there are heterosexual/ bisexual/ homosexual people in this world. By your logic if gender dictated your sexuality everyone would be straight since that is what we are "supposed" to be hence this would be what would be
easiest.
Quote from: milliontoone on June 26, 2009, 12:18:25 PM
I know it has been said time and ime again but I do find this statement a little flawed. After all as so many of the other guys have said your gender has nothing to do with who you are sexually attracted to hence why there are heterosexual/ bisexual/ homosexual people in this world. By your logic if gender dictated your sexuality everyone would be straight since that is what we are "supposed" to be hence this would be what would be easiest.
Precisely, and thus there would be no gay men or women, as they would change gender so as to be straight. There is a multitude of different gender expressions, sexual orientations and the combinations they make, but the most important thing to remember is that we are humans, not robots that can be categorized absolutely.
Quote from: mudd on June 24, 2009, 11:18:40 PM
wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?
NO. I can honestly say that pretending to be a straight female for years and years and years is the hardest thing I have ever done. It's a low-grade hell that just stretches on and on to eternity.
The process of deciding that I needed to transition was an intense but short-lived hell, but it compares with the daily hetero female grind as a quick one-second yank of a Band-aid compares to a year-long Sisyphean unpeeling. My inability to be truly gay caused a constant psychological throbbing that wore me down day by day. I had my survival mechanisms, little ways of dealing with that pain, but the respite was always incomplete and ephemeral.
I transitioned not only so I could be the right gender but so I could have the correct sexual orientation. No regrets so far.
Quote from: Arch on June 26, 2009, 11:00:54 PM
NO. I can honestly say that pretending to be a straight female for years and years and years is the hardest thing I have ever done. It's a low-grade hell that just stretches on and on to eternity.
The process of deciding that I needed to transition was an intense but short-lived hell, but it compares with the daily hetero female grind as a quick one-second yank of a Band-aid compares to a year-long Sisyphean unpeeling. My inability to be truly gay caused a constant psychological throbbing that wore me down day by day. I had my survival mechanisms, little ways of dealing with that pain, but the respite was always incomplete and ephemeral.
I transitioned not only so I could be the right gender but so I could have the correct sexual orientation. No regrets so far.
I empathize entirely. I feel the same way about my transition, which is still in waiting. It is stories like yours that make me hopeful that the daily grind of pretending to be something I'm not will be alleviated with time.
It's easier to be me, through and through, than to live a lie.
Quote from: Miniar on June 27, 2009, 09:06:41 AM
It's easier to be me, through and through, than to live a lie.
Yeah, I mean if a gay dude suddenly woke up a woman one day, he might think it was cool to get more guys and less discrimination for about a minute. But then he would get sick of pretending. As great as sex is and as nice as hetero privilege goes, neither is worth being someone else for the long haul.
Just as straight guy wouldn't transition just for those same gains.
I identify as bisexual, when I was living as a girl, I was a lesbian, but once I transitioned, I found feelings for men appear out of nowhere. Liking men as a girl is a LOT different than liking men as a boy.
Quote from: mudd on June 24, 2009, 11:18:40 PM
but wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?
It's not easier. I've tried forcing myself to live as female a couple times and I'll tell you that it's one of the most awkward feelings ever. It doesn't feel right
I'm gay. Deep down I have an admiration for females but not enough to date them again
Since I'm non-op I've lost hope in ever finding a guy who would be boyfriend material
I think some of the best boyfriends for FTMs are FTMs ourselves. I know from experience. It's just nice to have that level of comfort with someone... :)
Quote from: mudd on June 24, 2009, 11:18:40 PM
I can't imagine I'm the only straight FTM out there...right? .... tell me some of you still love women....?
Right here ;D
But seriously, I know it's been said multiple times in this thread, but sexual orientation and gender identity are not the same thing. Just like there are gay bio-men, there are gay FtM's. It does seem like percentage wise there are more gay FtM's than bio guys and I'm somewhat curious as to why that is. I think a lot of it is that we were socialized as female, and females aren't taught to be macho/homophobic like males are. If it weren't for the type of socialization that guys go through, there might be more gay guys. Think of how many guys try to secure their masculinity by being against anything gay, only to come out of the closet a little later on.
Does this make sense? Or am I just making things up? Haha
QuoteIt does seem like percentage wise there are more gay FtM's than bio guys and I'm somewhat curious as to why that is. I think a lot of it is that we were socialized as female, and females aren't taught to be macho/homophobic like males are.
I think there's something to that. In my case as well, even though I was attracted to girls, I was terrified of them and a lot more comfortable with guys. So maybe some ftms lean towards bi/gay out of a comfort thing.
Well, if 90% of women are attracted to men, it would make sense that there would be a higher percentage of gay FtMs. Especially now that the only route to information isn't through the lesbian community. However, as someone else pointed out, I'm finding that outside of Susan's there are a lot more straight FtMs. Of course, it could just be that in person the straight ones are more vocal. I was surprised to find that I, myself, was reluctant to correct people and tell them I was gay when they assumed that I liked women.
QuoteI can't imagine I'm the only straight FTM out there...right? .... tell me some of you still love women....?
I
love women. Men have never interested me. So I guess as female bodied I would have been a
lesbianNot sure about the other guys..
Jay
Cindygurl isn't the only one having a blonde moment. You are not gay. You're straight. Guys like woman as a norm. Here's a reality check: Gender and sexual desires or orientation happen to be different parts of the personality. Just decide to be bi and get it over with. That's the good thing about sexual desires, it can change in a moment. After the third drink it may not matter. I'm not that way. Unattractive people either physically or a disgusting personality will be a turn off no matter what the situation or their gender. A person could always be very promiscuous and everyone will like you.
Quote from: Genevieve Swann on June 29, 2009, 09:59:27 AM
Cindygurl isn't the only one having a blonde moment. You are not gay. You're straight. Guys like woman as a norm. Here's a reality check: Gender and sexual desires or orientation happen to be different parts of the personality. Just decide to be bi and get it over with. That's the good thing about sexual desires, it can change in a moment. After the third drink it may not matter. I'm not that way. Unattractive people either physically or a disgusting personality will be a turn off no matter what the situation or their gender. A person could always be very promiscuous and everyone will like you.
Um, what? Alcohol will change your sexual preferences and if you drink enough, you can just be a slut with a ton of friends? Whoa.
Quote from: Jamie-o on June 28, 2009, 04:43:12 PM
Well, if 90% of women are attracted to men, it would make sense that there would be a higher percentage of gay FtMs.
I had the hardest time figuring this out until it occurred to me that you might be equating FTMs with women...I hope that's not what you're saying. Or do you mean that since FTMs are brought up as women, a lot of them might have received social conditioning to prefer men? But that would have to work against a lot of FTMs' inherent preferences, yes?
Quote from: Arch on June 29, 2009, 05:46:53 PM
I had the hardest time figuring this out until it occurred to me that you might be equating FTMs with women...I hope that's not what you're saying. Or do you mean that since FTMs are brought up as women, a lot of them might have received social conditioning to prefer men? But that would have to work against a lot of FTMs' inherent preferences, yes?
I'm saying that we are
biologically women, (or female-bodied, at any rate) and that transness isn't the same thing as gayness, so if 90% of people born in female bodies are attracted to men, then it makes sense that a large percentage of FtMs would also be attracted to men. Did that make sense? :P I'm making the assumption that homosexuality and transsexuality are different biological traits that may or may not happen concurrently.
I think that for a long time a majority of gay FtMs didn't transition because, A) They didn't have access to the information they needed and B) There was an assumption that in order to be trans one had to be attracted to one's birth sex, so they either talked themselves out of it, or were denied access to hormones/surgery/etc. And I think a lot of gay FtMs still choose not to transition in a large part because they are not willing to cut themselves off from 90% of the male population.
Quote from: Jamie-o on June 30, 2009, 04:41:05 AM
I'm saying that we are biologically women, (or female-bodied, at any rate) and that transness isn't the same thing as gayness, so if 90% of people born in female bodies are attracted to men, then it makes sense that a large percentage of FtMs would also be attracted to men. Did that make sense?
Okay, I get what you're saying, and it brings up intriguing concepts. But first--we may be female-bodied; but when most of us say that, we're sort of operating on a body-mind split theory: the brain is largely male but the rest of the body is female.
So, let's see. What if sexual orientation is wired into the fetal brain or begins to be wired into the fetal brain at an absurdly early age, right around the time that the FTM fetal brain gets that infusion of T that some scientists theorize about? That's really what you're proposing, isn't it?
So in those infants whose trans-ness was caused (all or mostly) by fetal hormones, maybe some babies would get that infusion before orientation is forming, some during, and some after.
This is assuming, among other things, that sexual attraction is
mostly innate and
mostly fixed. I don't actually know anything about what I'm talking about. I'm just tossing ideas around.
I should point out that the vast majority of FTMs that I have met in person are attracted to females. A number of those guys are attracted to men in addition to women. Except online, I haven't run into many FTMs who are exclusively attracted to men. So based on my own small sample size, I would guess that either it just seems like lots of guys at Susan's are gay, or social and psychological factors cause gay FTMs to flock here and keep flocking here.
Well, there's one other thing I've noticed. The younger generation seems to have much more fluid perceptions of both gender and sex than my generation did. If younger people are more likely to go online, then there might be more bi and pan people here than in the general population of FTMs. But I don't know about gay FTMs.
Quote from: Arch on June 30, 2009, 01:54:02 PMI should point out that the vast majority of FTMs that I have met in person are attracted to females. A number of those guys are attracted to men in addition to women. Except online, I haven't run into many FTMs who are exclusively attracted to men. So based on my own small sample size, I would guess that either it just seems like lots of guys at Susan's are gay, or social and psychological factors cause gay FTMs to flock here and keep flocking here.
Like I've said before. Minorities always seem bigger online than they really are and often flock to the Internet for support because they're spread out.
The number of people who turn out transgender? That's also a very small number, yet Susan's makes it feel like there's a lot of us when there aren't.
Quote from: Monty on June 30, 2009, 04:08:14 PM
Like I've said before. Minorities always seem bigger online than they really are and often flock to the Internet for support because they're spread out.
Yeah, I think it's probably true. I meant to reference you on this.
In so far as you don't' think it's all OK with the gay community, then go ahead.
As someone who lives somewhere with a large number of transpeople, those of us who are exclusively attracted to women are the minority.
I'm bisexual but I prefere boys.
When I was 16 I came out to myself that I liked also girls, even if I used to prefere boys. Then I forced myself in a female role that wasn't mine and I started to date boys. After some >-bleeped-<ty relationship I called myself lesbian because I don't wanted to be with a boy anymore.
A year ago I came out as a FtM and now I think I'm returning to my sexual orientation of when I was 16: I prefere boys, even if I watch also girls. :)
QuoteI can't imagine I'm the only straight FTM out there...right? .... tell me some of you still love women..?
Quote from: Jay on June 29, 2009, 07:08:08 AM
I love women. Men have never interested me. So I guess as female bodied I would have been a lesbian
Not sure about the other guys..
Jay
yep same here. I'm straight & love girls. I dont like dudes. never been w/a dude. dunno 'bout other straight f2m's but I didnt hang out in lesbian bars or anythin like that b4 transition. I was never a "lesbian". all my gf's have been straight women 8) 8) 8) in my mind I've alwyas been a dude that likes women & thats all there's 2 it.
Quote from: Mister on July 01, 2009, 02:33:05 AM
As someone who lives somewhere with a large number of transpeople, those of us who are exclusively attracted to women are the minority.
If I had to make a guess about the guys in my area, I'd say that maybe fifty percent or more are straight and have no interest in men at all. Quite a few are bi/pan/omni, and I think that is more common among the younger guys than the older guys. I've only run into a few guys in person who like men only.
I think its also just younger people in general being more openminded about sexuality, regardless of whether they're trans or not.
Quote from: kestin on July 02, 2009, 06:07:48 PM
I think its also just younger people in general being more openminded about sexuality, regardless of whether they're trans or not.
I think it's just great to see that the new generation is, at least by the majority, far more liberal and open-minded than past generations. Although people speak of how our world is disintegrating around us, I see more hope in the knowledge and decency of the young people of today than I see danger in something like "global warming".
I don't think I lack in liberalism and if I did, it's not why I don't want another man's cock in my bed.
Another straight FtM Here.
I've never really been interested in men during my adult life, and while I did wonder about guys every now and then throughout my teenage years, I never was interested enough to try it out.
I have ftm medical history, and I identify now as gay.
Interestingly, before the T started ( Jan. 2007), I was finally clear that I was attracted to women, and okay with myself around that (had been with men some, as there was always a deeper spiritual connection with them).
As my body changed through the T, my brain honestly felt like it was changing. I saw lines and colors differently. My eyes seriously began to work differently with my brain. I had a really rough time, maybe 2.5 - 4 months into the T where my orientation was shifting. VERY DISORIENTING AND STRESSFUL. Then, once I had my chest surgery (18 mos ago), I ended up getting really clear. Without the extra tissue on my chest that was not wanted, I could land even more inside myself.
Four months ago, I had the pleasure of being out dancing in a group with some lovely gay men (3 of them I had never met before, but was eventually told they were gay), and perhaps 12 really lovely women. It was fascinating, as I watched my body's responses. NOTHING to the beautiful, free, kind, some of them mature in a great way, women. And the men kept practically sending me to my knees. I actually started kind of laughing, at the contrast, since a tiny bit of me had held onto the small shred of memory of loving women so SO intensely and completely for years.
That's gone.
Men are what affect me on a very primal level now. I am slowly adjusting, but I will still say I feel disoriented by that. Perhaps more than almost anything else in my transition. In the groups I was in (more than 18 mos ago now), there were other ftms who were attracted to ftms, and one was at least clearly attracted to men, but this was NOT the "cool" way to be. There was some process in the group about it. Seems many ftms assume we are all the same, but my inner experience is not what theirs was around the attraction piece.
My attraction to ftms held pretty strong for the first 15 months or so on T, but that has shifted, and I am not sure where it landed. I can't tell what is judging myself around that, what is grief about relationship with an ftm that I really loved, but it didn't work out, where there were several issues happening, etc. Don't really run into a lot of ftms where I moved to now, lol. Have seen one in the past five months. He was cute, but don't know that we will be dating, for a few other reasons.
This got long, I've been gone for awhile....
thanks for listening.
Joseph
Welcome back, Joseph. Long time no see. :)
I'm an ftm, and I'm bi. Or pansexual. Or omnisexual. Or whatever the blanket p.c. term is at this point, this moment, today.... I also like wearing pink. I like to dye my hair. I like glitter. I still watch movies like Cinderella Story and cry at the happy endings. I think the point I'm trying to make (wow, there's a point?) is that there is no one way to be ftm. We come from every point on the spectrum of sexuality and even gender, so to question how there can be such differences between members of the same group is just redundant... it's like questioning how one can be human and not like the taste of peanut butter.
That said, I was exclusively attracted to chicks prior to T. I called myself bi then, but it was solely due to the fact I didn't feel right identifying as either lesbian or straight, as a female. I tried each on for size for awhile, but in the end just knew I didn't work as any of those, not as a chick. Once I passed on T, however, I found myself attracted to guys far more than ever before. I know it's because I could never have seen myself as a woman with a man... even just typing those words induces dysphoria I don't experience too often anymore. As a man, however, men interest me greatly. It's more the physical than any sort of emotional connection, I think, because I tend to have far deeper emotional connections in relationships with girls. I'm still figuring it out....
SD
this is an interesting thread. thanks for that post Joseph, it's nice to hear how other people feel these desires change in ways that aren't always explainable, but we all may go through them.
i'm not transitioned but tbh not sure i will have hormones anytime soon...i do pass pretty well and been considering seeing what happens if i go out to the city and use a male name.
i had a girlfriend for 4 years, never slept with a guy...did have crushes on them sometimes. and over the years, my body seems to get more male kinda on it's own, and kinda through my own encouragement. after breaking up and moving and some other stuff, i just wasn't attracted to anyone, and girls started fading from my mind entirely when any desire came back. my body, the way people react to me, and who i'm attracted too, have all changed even without T.
like some other people here have mentioned: i didn't know there were gay ftm's for a long time! and when i found online groups, i felt so happy. it's not just that i feel like a gay man sometimes, it's that gay men seem to respond to me. even when i was with my girlfriend, she teased me about how the one gay guy hanging out at the lesbian bar always had to come talk to me, tell me how i looked like his ex, feel my muscles, etc... i enjoyed it.
recently i went to pride and some guys waved me over to their bbq in thier yard. then when i said my name they acted a bit taken aback. one said "eh...but you're cute!"
sometimes it's as hard for me to fathom the situation as it is for all the folks who have questions about it. "what the hell am i thinking?" i'll say to myself. and yet...when i believe that's what i am, the people around me somehow do too. humanity is fascinating. now it's not so hard to fathom or to see that this is how i feel...but what's hard is where to go from there.
Quote from: michael on July 06, 2009, 05:10:28 PM
when i believe that's what i am, the people around me somehow do too. humanity is fascinating.
It's interesting how that works. I've found that most often on the occasions when I pass it's when I'm feeling my most male. That and in Chinese restaurants. :D I have a theory about that, but I don't want to hijack this thread any further.
I notice that Mudd never came back...d'you suppose we scared him off?
Quote from: mudd on June 24, 2009, 11:18:40 PM
I understand not being comfortable in your skin and needing to be the other gender... but wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?
Not really. When you are with a guy as a woman, unless the guy is broadminded, you are still going to play as a woman. With a female body. So really, it is not a difficult matter at all. Considering if you don't feel comfortable in your birth body then the feeling is only going to be amplified during intimate situations. At least it is for me.
I'm in a relationship and engaged to a cisfemale and yet I'm attracted to men, too. Actually, it's easier for me to say what male attributes are attractive compared to female ones. I guess I just have my gay side, lol.
Quote from: Arch on June 30, 2009, 01:54:02 PM
Okay, I get what you're saying, and it brings up intriguing concepts. But first--we may be female-bodied; but when most of us say that, we're sort of operating on a body-mind split theory: the brain is largely male but the rest of the body is female.
So, let's see. What if sexual orientation is wired into the fetal brain or begins to be wired into the fetal brain at an absurdly early age, right around the time that the FTM fetal brain gets that infusion of T that some scientists theorize about? That's really what you're proposing, isn't it?
So in those infants whose trans-ness was caused (all or mostly) by fetal hormones, maybe some babies would get that infusion before orientation is forming, some during, and some after.
This is assuming, among other things, that sexual attraction is mostly innate and mostly fixed. I don't actually know anything about what I'm talking about. I'm just tossing ideas around.
I should point out that the vast majority of FTMs that I have met in person are attracted to females. A number of those guys are attracted to men in addition to women. Except online, I haven't run into many FTMs who are exclusively attracted to men. So based on my own small sample size, I would guess that either it just seems like lots of guys at Susan's are gay, or social and psychological factors cause gay FTMs to flock here and keep flocking here.
Well, there's one other thing I've noticed. The younger generation seems to have much more fluid perceptions of both gender and sex than my generation did. If younger people are more likely to go online, then there might be more bi and pan people here than in the general population of FTMs. But I don't know about gay FTMs.
Arch, your ideas are very interesting. They made me laugh too, but that's just my weird sense of humor processing the information.
Anyway, the thread's old, but it looks like it was reopened today. Personally, I've always been attracted to men and always will be. I find that the very few women that I have been attracted to are along the lines of androgyns. For me, it's about the energy, and while I respect everyone's individuality, I think romantically, I wouldn't really do well with someone who's "feminine" in mind and spirit. ..If that made any sense.
Quote from: Henry Lockhart on January 13, 2013, 10:44:22 PM
Not really. When you are with a guy as a woman, unless the guy is broadminded, you are still going to play as a woman. With a female body. So really, it is not a difficult matter at all. Considering if you don't feel comfortable in your birth body then the feeling is only going to be amplified during intimate situations. At least it is for me.
Women amplified my discomfort way more than men did. LOL. It's hard to explain because on one hand, yes, I hate this body, but on the other, I kind of understand how it's suppose to work. Thankfully, past partners have been broadminded, I guess.
Weird seeing some of my odd musings from a few years back.
Even when I was a child, I wanted to relate to males AS a male. All of the fantasies I had were of this type. When I began to have sexual feelings, I fantasized that I was a boy having sex with men. My gayness explains why I was never fully comfortable with "straight" sex. Some occasions were much better than others, but I later realized that it was only because I was repressing my true feelings. It got harder and harder for me to do that as time went by.
Ever since I found out that there WAS such a thing as a gay community, I've known that those gay men were my people. Now I spend most of my social time in the gay community, and I know that it's where I belong.
I like men and women equally, I guess. But relationships aren't important to me. I'm not transitioning just so I can please a potential partner. I'm doing this for my own well being. I'm a man, my occasional interest in the same gender doesn't make me any less of one.
It's not "easier" to be a straight woman. I've been forced into that role and it ended in multiple suicide attempts and a couple hospitalizations. I'm not supposed to have the sexual organs I do right now, that's why I'm transitioning. You know, to correct that mistake? There's no way in hell that I would pretend to be a woman just so I could be with a man. No partner is worth that, to me personally.
I'm quite gay on my own scale. I know I'm attracted to males and masculine and butchy people in general.
I just always get disgusted when someone treats me as a female. Being treated as a female feels like a violation. I've always tried to avoid heteronormative partners. I'm just not hetero, I never was, no matter how submissive I can act and how much I can enjoy that role, also. Likewise, no matter how dominating I can be, I'd just never be a female in that role, either. Not that I haven't tried to be a female ::)
Nothing in me or my tastes makes me a female, it doesn't work like that. No matter how much easier things would be in theory, I would always feel disgust about my body and alienate myself from it, and feel like I was not whole, not real, not me, never as good or complete as my (male/androgyne) partner or friend or whomever. It's easy to know that since I still cope with those feelings every day.
So yeah, there's a world of difference.
Quote from: Arch on January 13, 2013, 11:29:32 PM
Even when I was a child, I wanted to relate to males AS a male. All of the fantasies I had were of this type. When I began to have sexual feelings, I fantasized that I was a boy having sex with men. My gayness explains why I was never fully comfortable with "straight" sex. Some occasions were much better than others, but I later realized that it was only because I was repressing my true feelings. It got harder and harder for me to do that as time went by.
^ This.
The last time my hubby & I had guy-on-girl sex, I cried my eyes out. I just couldn't stand taking the female role any more. I've always fantasised that I'm taking the guy's role; it's the only way I could get through it & get to where I needed to be.
I'm also uncomfortable with the stereotype that 'most FtMs are attracted to women'. It gives the impression that we're just a bunch of hyper-butch lesbians who transition because it'd be 'easier' to be straight. We don't all like girls, and as others have said we don't all think it'd be easier to be straight (if it was, I wouldn't be transitioning!). In fact, some of us have good reasons to
dislike girls - such as being forced to live as one for so long.
(Wow, this thread's come up from the depths, hasn't it?)
Quote from: FTMDiaries on January 14, 2013, 05:15:53 AM
I'm also uncomfortable with the stereotype that 'most FtMs are attracted to women'. It gives the impression that we're just a bunch of hyper-butch lesbians who transition because it'd be 'easier' to be straight.
You know as much crap as I'm sure gay transguys get, I, as a straight transman have had that poo flung at me before. I for one never identified as a lesbian. Never was into the gay bar scene, pride parades, or waved a rainbow flag (and that is saying something since I lived in the Northern Jersey/NYC area for years). I've been to the gay bar where I live now twice in the past decade. Both times I was hit on by men as my gf was hit on by women (my gf looks like a butch lesbian but nope...besides me she was only with cis males).
Point is there are always going to be misconceptions about us. Funny thing is it's usually our own who question us. Question our transition. Question who we love, Question how well we pass. Pfffft, I say. Pfffft. :P
I will say that the most hurtful thing ever said to me was by a gay cis male friend. I was living with him at the time and he would get intoxicated then the emotions would come out. He had propositioned me to the point where I thought it was funny...you know, "yeah yeah buddy...you're drunk go sleep it off" sorta thing. Then one day he gets irate about it and says "Why did you move in with me if you're nothing but an effing dyke". I moved out a week later.
So yes, we both get crap thrown at us. The gay transguys get told "you should have just stayed female".
The straight transmen get told "you just don't want to be seen as a lesbian" or "after your surgeries I guess you can legally get married then...not like when you were a lesbian".
Things like this make me hate people. ;D
Quote from: Simon on January 14, 2013, 05:39:24 AM
Point is there are always going to be misconceptions about us. Funny thing is it's usually our own who question us. Question our transition. Question who we love, Question how well we pass. Pfffft, I say. Pfffft. :P
I see your Pffffts, and I raise you an additional Pfffft. Pfffft to the lot of 'em! ;)
Quote from: Simon on January 14, 2013, 05:39:24 AM
So yes, we both get crap thrown at us. The gay transguys get told "you should have just stayed female".
The straight transmen get told "you just don't want to be seen as a lesbian" or "after your surgeries I guess you can legally get married then...not like when you were a lesbian".
Things like this make me hate people. ;D
Let's face it: life isn't easy for any of us, regardless of our lifestyle. Haters gonna hate. ::)
I tried to 'just stay female' for years & years... until I realised it was tearing me apart. A lot of (cis)people might not realise this but
transitioning is the easier option, at least for me. The other option doesn't bear thinking about.
It would be easier to just stay female, if that's how I felt on the inside. Unfortunately I have never liked female pronouns, and always wanted to hang with the guys and be accepted as one of them.
I identify as pansexual, but I find I am most attracted to men cis or trans, and queer identified folks such as gender queer and androgyne, and I've been that way since I went through puberty. I'm pre hormones due to cost and other issues, so this may change when/if I'm ever able to get on T.
I know gay FTM and MTF. There is no limit to the diversity of the human sexual experiance.
I am MTF and mainly into females. My spouse is FTA and mainly into guys. Lucky for us we are both pansexual. ;)
Being comfortable with yourself opens you up to all sexual possibilities.
In the end it might be experimentation, or might be something real. I hit that phase as well~ and I think many people do whether they admit it or not.
Quote from: Rita on January 16, 2013, 09:43:46 AM
Being comfortable with yourself opens you up to all sexual possibilities.
I wouldn't say that. With me, it was the exact opposite. After I fully admitted that I was a man, I was finally able to admit that I wasn't bisexual, not a bit. I've never been attracted to women, but I tried really hard...and now I don't have to.
Quote from: mudd on June 24, 2009, 11:18:40 PM
I understand not being comfortable in your skin and needing to be the other gender... but wouldn't it be easier to just be female and not be gay?
Have always loved men. But the funny thing is, before I realized I was trans, I actually said the last part of the quoted sentence. Why would a man become a woman to be with a woman? Why would a woman become a man to be with a man?
Then, DUH, I figured out that I was trans (knew since age 4 but didn't know what I felt meant I was trans). and then, I still loved men. Double duh, I'm gay.
Being with a man as a man is a totally different thing than a straight relationship. 1000x better. Funny, but I see more posts here by straight guys than gay guys.
I was (still am) married to FTM guy...since I know him he was always only interested in woman. When we got married 3 years ago he started his transition ( but only naturally)...that didn't got him where he wanted to be. Six month ago he started testosterone. 3 months in, I discovered that he is watching a load of gay porn....when I ask him about it, he said that he just wants to learn how the penis operates...last week I discovered that he has and add on Craigslist soliciting man for sex.....so I do have some suspicion that testosterone played big role in this change.
Well, I can't speak for all of the FtMs in the world, but to me, it seems like being FtM and being gay is actually pretty common. This is a bit of my experience; when I was younger, and didn't even know what FtM was, I had been raised (As most little 'girls,') to expect that I was going to grow up and marry and man and have kids. So...I dated guys. I thought I liked guys at that point, but I think that I just assumed I did, I wasn't really interested in them – but I come from a family of mostly women (I have two male cousins, a few uncles, and my dad...and that's it) So I got very jumpy around guys in general, I think because I wasn't used to interacting with them – I think that I mistook this for attraction in my younger years. But the older that I got, I began to resent my female body, and thus became very jealous of men – they had what I wanted, and that pissed me off. I went through an awkward lesbian phase, but I never felt attracted to the girls I was with – I didn't get those warm fuzzy feelings that you get when you're attracted to someone. After realizing that I was an FtM, I continued to date girls for a bit...but it didn't feel right, and I came out as being gay. So no, I wasn't always attracted to men.
'Wouldn't it be easier to be female and not be gay?'
No...because I am not a female. I could ask you, "Wouldn't it be easier for you to be a woman and be a lesbian?" But your answer will probably be, "No," Because it sounds like you're not a woman either. Gender identity and sexuality simply are not the same, one does not affect the other. They are independent of each other.
I've heard of plenty of straight FtMs out there. Believe me, they exist, but I am not one of them.
Sexuality and gender identity is two difference thing. They doesn't affect each other. Transgender people can be straight, gay, bi and pan like cisgender. Many gay FTMs find these questions a bit offensive.
If you're a guy "trapped" in a female body, it's not fun at all. Gay FTMs may have gender dysphoria, discomfort etc. with their bodies too. They are supposed to have a male body, but because something happening, they are born with the wrong genitals.
Many FTMs wouldn't stay as female, because they are guys. It wouldn't be easier for them to stay as female and come in a relationship with another guy who loving them being girls. Because it's dysphoria triggering. Many FTMs doesn't feel comfortable about their chest or the downstairs. So many skip the sex-life etc. to they are post-op.
I'm gay and FTM, I would never live as the opposite gender. That isn't possible. :/ And I doesn't want to be treaten as a woman, have a woman body etc. :( :( So it's easier said than done. Try ask a gay cisguy why he doesn't want to be a girl in the gay relationship.
I'm bisexual and I've always been bisexual. Didn't change when I discovered that I was a guy. But, my sexuality is fluid. Sometimes I've been more attracted to men, other times more attracted to women, etc. Oh and I like nonbinary people too.
I'm bi. I've always been bi. There has been no change.
Although I would say the attraction to men and women and its associated sensations differs slightly in ways it's difficult to describe.
I'm a gay ftm. I wouldn't say that being gay is not "normal" regardless of if the person is trans or not, however it might be that it's less common. It kinda feels like it does put me in a minority of a minority in a way, but that doesn't really bother me.
I was always attracted to males, even since before I discovered that I'm trans and there's never been any question about that for me. However I have had a little bit of attraction to females in the past as well, but I choose to go by gay cause my interest in females happens very rarely and never lasts long enough for me to even have a chance to act on it, kinda. It could very likely be more of a curiosity than actual attraction though.
As far as I see it when it comes to myself, it's far easier and a much better option for me to live as a gay man than it was to try to live as a straight girl. However I did think of myself as bisexual back then, at least during most of my teens. The reason for this is that no amounts of social acceptance could ever make my body dysphoria into something that I could have lived with. However I consider myself lucky in the aspect that I have always had very supportive friends, family members and partners both when it comes to me being trans and my sexuality. I've never really faced either transphobia or homophobia.
So of course I don't have much at all to complain about when it comes to the aspect of social acceptance, except from a few, rare occasions of not so accepting strangers that I've run into in the past, although nothing terribly bad happened during those encounters. And well, transitioning from female to male has given me confidence, self esteem and a better sense of inner comfort in a lot of aspects, so it's definitely better compared to life before transition, no matter who I was or wasn't attracted to. To me there's nothing wrong with being gay at all, and I'm proud to be gay, so I don't even regard it as a problem.
Also, I am aware of that dating and finding partners as an ftm certainly isn't always easy, and it hasn't been for me either. But well, I'd rather be more alone but more comfortable with myself, than more popular and hating myself. And well I wasn't really that popular before either, but still. I was around.
I am bisexual FtM. I love the attention I get from women. I am pre T. But I look much like a guy. Just two hours ago I got a huge smile and a "hi" from a woman when we met on the street. But I am also attracted to men. I prefer men that are not too masculine in their appearence. All non-masculine men are not gay though.
I also thought being a woman is much more simple. But this is not me. I hate parts of my body and I don't see myself as the mirror shows. I realized transsexual people existed 10 years ago. Tho only thing I regret is that I did not act on this sooner. I have always been a boy. I just knew it. But did not know how to change my outer to fit my inner.
I was always attracted to males. Still am.
Buuuut...since I've always liked more feminine men, naturally one of those men turned out to be a woman. It changed my way of thinking a bit, in a way I find a lot of comfort in being the male figure in a relationship, and I find myself more attracted to woman as a man than I was as...not a man. I definitely was not a lesbian at all. Transitioning kind of opened up bisexuality to me and made me more attracted to the other sex in the body of my sex
Interesting discussion. As FTM I consider myself straight, attracted to only females. I have lived most of my life as a lesbian. Once I realized I am trans/ftm I've started considering being open to exploring with males, but exploring only. No relationship. And oddly for me as a top. For me it most definitely is not easier to live female bodies and be gay. My wife will not accept (at least at this time) any of my maleness and it's causing some problems. I don't expect my wife to accept me as male because she is a lesbian. By both ways not living as your true gender and sex is not easier imho.
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This is something that I have really been at odds with lately. I have been a 150% lesbian all my life but the past few years been watching gay porn exclusively. I thought, this is kinda normal for a lesbian but now that I am ftm I find myself wanting to explore the peen. I have gone as far as putting out online anon requests.
I am still very attracted to woman in all manors but sexually crave penis. The thought of a male body sexually isn't really a turn on but the genitals are...
This kinda shakes my identity a bit but also have a few gay trans guy friends so I know I'm not "weird".
I'm still trying to figure out where I fall on whatever the spectrum is in my head.
I never felt comfortable exploring my attraction to men as a female. I felt more jealous and uncomfortable whenever around them, though the latter isn't just because dysphoria/trans reasons. This was back when I didn't know trans people existed, though. Tbh, I just don't consider male = penis, and female = vagina. I know it's normal to, even for trans people, but my attraction doesn't lie on genitals. It may have when I didn't know trans people existed, because my jealousy got in the way of everything, but after that, I never focused on gender = genitals.
When I first realized I was trans, I was still uncomfortable, but I found myself feeling better about saying I liked men and imagining myself being with one.
At one point, I heavily repressed being trans and found myself dating a boy. It wasn't uncomfortable. I trusted him a lot. He's trans, though, so maybe that had something to do with it? I wasn't jealous of him for his body, obviously, and the discomfort wasn't as bad as it was with bio males.
When I started accepting that I'm trans again, I found it easier to explore my attraction to men. Still had (and have) the same boyfriend. I think being with a bio male would make me uncomfortable still because I cannot transition yet. Perhaps I'd feel better about it once I can.
In short, I just have really messy problems, but I definitely like guys (I consider myself bi), and I'm a guy.
I'm a gay FTM. I've been attracted to men since kindergarten. I've never been attracted to women. As for the question of wouldn't it be easier to stay female and be straight? The answer is no, absolutely not. Many people have already brought up the fact that gender identity and sexuality are different things, and I agree completely. But for me, they have always been intricately linked.
As I've said, I've always been attracted to men. As I grew up, any thoughts I had of a romantic or sexual relationship with anyone have always been of a man with a man. I identified as gay (i.e. a man with a man) long before I identified as FTM, or even consistently as male. My being gay was the main reason I knew there was something wrong with my gender identity. It's also the reason I've been single my entire life. The thought of being with a man as a female, of being treated as a female by a partner, of being touched as a female in an intimate way, of being someone's girlfriend... cue complete dysphoric, panic attack, meltdown.
Living as a straight female not only means all the problems of living as the wrong gender, but it means I can never be with anyone in a romantic or intimate way. Not to mention the dynamics of heterosexual relationships and homosexual relationships are completely different. Even if I were to suddenly be attracted to women, the whole dynamic of heterosexual relationships is the complete opposite of what I want in a relationship.
So for me, transitioning to male means that not only am I now the correct gender, I can now be the correct sexual orientation too.
Quote from: Vancha on June 27, 2009, 12:43:19 AM
I empathize entirely. I feel the same way about my transition, which is still in waiting. It is stories like yours that make me hopeful that the daily grind of pretending to be something I'm not will be alleviated with time.
This is me too.
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I am a guy who is attracted to masculinity. This usually translates to liking men but I have also been attracted to some very butch women as well.
Twenty years ago, in my teens, I knew I was a gay guy but had no idea that transition was possible... so I told myself that I just had to pretend to be a straight woman and take my knowledge otherwise to the grave... so I tried (and often failed) to live as a straight woman... until eventually I couldn't do it anymore.
Notably, most straight guys had no interest in me because (as another poster said) straight guys want women not guys with breasts... which is what I am. I am a butch, slob of a guy who does not in any way exhibit the fabulousness of some gay men.
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I am FTM and I am attracted to both femenine women and femenine men. I'm not at all attracted to masculine men, or women.
Sorry, everyone. I suddenly felt the urge to open up. This got long an personal.
I am currenly having a hard time accepting that I like men. I am bisexual and when I was living as a woman I was "straight". I didn't know anyone who wasn't straight and nobody was trans. I felt like a weirdo. I knew I was bi but there was no opportunities. I had boyfriends but they felt weird because I was so masculine (a man in a pretty girls body. I tried to do my best with my looks. I wanted to be a woman that I wasn't. I could never walk on heels though. It's dangerous). Straight girls liked kissing me when they were drunk but that was it. I carried a lot of bags and bought them drinks. I acted as a body guard too (I often walked them home after parties because they were scared). Sometimes I really did some stupid and dangerous stuff for them just to see them smile.
I have never been with a girl and I feel inferior because of it. I feel bad if I am attracted to men. I am not used to actually being something else but "straight" for real. Even my mother who has seen several of my boyfriends and no girls assumes I am straight because I am so masculine. Not like the other queer men she knows. There is a lot of mildly sexual humour at work too. I am supposed to play a role of a straight guy. Nobody even suspects I am trans although all of them thought I was a girl when I started. And for years I thought I can't transition because I have never had a girlfriend. I thought I would be laughed out of the doctors office. Basically I waited almost 10 years because of that. There was less information and support available.
The gay scene seems frightening. I really don't want to like men. Queer women seem more accepting too. But more and more I think about it I jut get sadder an sadder. I don't want to exclude men. I like men. But it's hard to admit. I know that I wouldn't be "a woman " in the relationship. It didn't work when I actually tried. But this freaks me out. The best scenario with a man would be that I met another transguy who is in the same situation but this seems to be rare.
The whole "being queer" thing freaks me out. When I go in support groups I feel out of place. It's like I am too straight and too queer at the same time. I have lived an odd life. I just wanted to think I was lucky to be a guy in a girls body. All the dressing rooms, make up, attention and such. I had and have severe dysphoria so I have no idea how I happened. I have been like a spy who looks the part but can't act. I often thought that I must be the best drag queen in my town although now I know better. I was more like a baby princess. Can't even walk on high heels and the actual drag is not like that. My body was like a doll to me. I liked dressing it up and putting it to interact with people instead of revealing myself. It felt safe that way. I could trust that my cute face would get me everything and mostly it did. Life is different when you loose that adorable and fragile look.
Still it's frightening to be non-straight. I feel pressured to like every girl who likes me. I feel like I can't like boys and I can't have standards because I am trans (and balding and I still have the top fillings. I have lost all the beauty and good looks). I feel ridiculous. My past is ridiculous, I look just odd and my attitude with life is out of place. I don't fit in anywhere. And I still like men way too much. Finding love seems impossible but a the same time I want it. And I am still so scared that it might be with a man. I am happier than ever but finding love is tough. It's tough for everybody. But before it was impossible because I couldn't even be me.
Obviously being gay is ok. I just see a lot of transpeople talking about "loosing gay identity". Loosing straight identity is a thing too. It's confusing to start living that life as a queer man when you basically don't even know anyone who isn't straight and cis. I am stealth and in the closet. Nobody knows how pretty I used to be and how gay I am. There seems to be more open doors for people who aren't like me.
The idea of being beholden to someone else's idea of MY sexuality is absurd to me.
The idea of being at the whim of biological urges also bothers me, which is why I've never been with anyone I didn't like as a person beforehand. The idea of sex on its own has all the appeal of other mundane body functions... it might be interesting for all of 5 minutes, like porn... but after I wonder why I bothered and what the hell I was turned on about in the first place. I would never put myself out for someone who wasn't interesting in themselves, or spend however long trying to endear myself to them just for that and I don't understand people who do.
That said if there is a person I like - a lot - those boundaries between friendship and more always seem to get blurred. Then I really want to get fully involved so to speak. That goes for both men and women. I'm not really sure why it happens but it usually does if I'm close with the person. So I guess I'm no better. I end up coming away from everything with odd dynamics and friends who are more than friends and usually all their baggage as well... and their current girlfriends or boyfriends are a little paranoid about me because they know I was "that friend" and assume I'll 'seduce' them again.
I thought about this recently and I still can't really say I'm gay because I've had as many "encounters" with women as men, I just chose to make the ones with the guys more serious. That's not to say I didn't take the others seriously. I always take them seriously, and maybe they were a bit too serious. Something about the dynamic between me and women though... I'm not sure if it's because of my mother or what, but I'm much more wary of them. Flattery from both sexes never works on me, shallow flirting never works on me, being too keen never works on me either, neither does the "you're a big strong man, do this for me, will you?" kind of buttering up. All that is transparent and offputting. It has to be some sort of proper connection between me and someone, some sort of mutual interest, fascination or respect. I suppose in that sense it doesn't matter the gender. It could be anyone.
It's more of a pain than just being straightforwardly interested in someone physically though. I'll get to see what's really under the surface quickly and then sometimes wish I hadn't looked. I have to find out if there's anyone like me in the world though, who sees it the way I do. I'm probably going to be repeating that process forever and paying for it with a piece of my soul every time, haha.
Flattery and flirting don't work for me either. I am immune to that. Haha
Dude! Gender and sexuality are two different things. Who you are has nothing to do with who you fall in love with. Period.
i find that the more i accept myself as male, the less sexual interest i have in men and the more i have in women. i've always been some kind of bi, but the preference levels are leaning in the opposite direction now. as a girl, i was raised to believe that anything "gay" was wrong, so of course for a long time i was sure i was straight and i wrote off anything that seemed like attraction to females as something else. but these days, i find i don't really "notice" men the same way i notice women. i can see a man and find him really attractive, acknowledge that he has beautiful features, but it feels more like appreciation (like looking at a nice work of art) or outright jealousy most of the time.
but this whole transgender mess has got my sexuality so screwed up, i don't really know for sure what i am any more. at present, i just can't have any kind of sex life or relationships at all. it doesn't mean i don't have interests, but the inability to insert myself into them makes it harder for me to draw the line between what i want and what i want to be.
Quote from: evadenzin on March 13, 2017, 03:17:05 PM
Dude! Gender and sexuality are two different things. Who you are has nothing to do with who you fall in love with. Period.
That is a spot on. It's hard to get over the insecurities though. I guess it is for cismen too. If I was cis I would still have difficulties. I knew I was a man/boy almost 16 years ago. I was a teenager and I basically didn't even know how to use a computer and had no access to internet or almost any information. I was the only one I knew who dared to be a little gender nonconforming. I didn't really know how internet even worked and what it was. I didn't watch tv (not that those 3 channels could offer much LGBT+ information). And nobody talked about these things. I learned most from reading John Irving. A library bus came over every week and I lived for that. God, I used a kicksled to get to the library bus at winters. (I often gave a kicksled ride to a neighbours girl since she was a reader too. I was among the greatest kickledders in our town. I got strong legs and I knew how to handle a kicksled. Girls screamed a lot but we always arrived safely in the destination. You can get wild with that thing). I learned everything from random books. Pieces of information were like diamonds to me and the world around me was not making sense. My youth was lonely. Even my sister who is straight and cis was affected. She really wanted to play ice hockey but couldn't since it's "not for girls". She would have been good at it.
I was always called a lesbian at school by bullies so I associate being gay with bad things. I try not to think that way because I know it's not true. But this sh*t leaves it's mark. I don't think much when others are what they are but I have impossible standards for myself. It's ridiculous since being straight is no better than being non-straight. I often still feel like that confused teenager in a town where a short haired "girl" (me) is a shocking sight and nobody else dares to defy the rules. Acceptance was a remote dream back then. In that world you could only be a one type of a guy or one type of a girl. I still can't fit in as a man and that feels bad sometimes although I know that it's not the way things are. People carry packages. I would like to drop mine but propably some of it will follow me until I die.
Quote from: lc100 on February 16, 2017, 04:28:14 PM
I never felt comfortable exploring my attraction to men as a female.
This was my big wake up call last year, after finally realising why I was getting so angry when guys would show their interest in me in the last couple of years. And I'm not an angry person. But finally I put together a lifetime of clues with that realisation. I was never a lesbian, always attracted to men. But I didn't want men to see me as female. I always felt a fraud as a woman, like I was a playing a role of what was expected, but not who I was or what I wanted.
So the realisation came all at once that I am trans, and a gay man. I may have hyperventilated for a week. :) I'm more used to the idea now, though, and looking forward to starting HRT this year to finally look as male as I am in my mind. I'm not all about the penis = male, or that T is a requirement to be male, but for me, I'd certainly like to start by looking more male. Right now I have no hope of passing... people think I'm a lesbian. It's false advertising. :)
But I really, really want to be with someone who can see me as male and not female.