Although I switched to injections last year, estradiol patches worked very well for me. I switched because I grew tired of the dark ring of debris caused by the adhesive, and because injections were much cheaper. Here are some tips for those who use patches.
You should prep the area first. Make sure there is no hair in the way, then use an alcohol swab to make sure there are no oils or lotions in the area. Once you apply the patch, put some pressure on it with the heel of your hand for 20 - 30 seconds. I exercise quite a bit and perspire profusely, but my patches never surrender until I peel them off. If the patches refuse to cooperate, check with your doctor to see if they can prescribe a different brand which may have better adhesive. I normally stick the patches a few inches below and on either side of my belly button, or on my butt where I can reach them easily.
I've found that wetting the area down with baby oil for about 5 minutes after removing the patch makes the adhesive much easier to remove.
Love always -- Jessica Rose
I use patches.
This is all great advice. I place mine on my upper thigh, which seems to work well. My E went way up when I figured out my patches work best there. Anecdotally, I have a few friends who have similar experiences-- one location seemed to work better for test results than others. I suspect it is YMMV.
I am also super careful to rotate locations to keep from getting skin irritation.
Finally, it's odd how insurance is quirky. As many patches as I need are covered at no cost, injections are not covered. My insurance concierge verifies I could cover my body with 50 patches if prescribed.. but a single cheaper injection would never be covered.
Jenn
A lot of folks complain about patches, but they've worked quite well for me. My doc mentioned some studies that show that patches don't always result in high enough blood test E levels, despite their effectiveness. I don't know if it's true, but my E level hasn't gotten above 50 yet and my breasts are quite large, along with other desired changes.
The "ring" of adhesive is a bit of a pain, and some alcohol is required in order to remove it. Perhaps I'll switch to injections at some point, but patches are working for me for now. I apply them in my lower belly, the sides of my bikini area or on my upper thighs. The trick has been to find an area that doesn't expand and retract too much, as that can cause the patch to come partially off. I also try to position myself in the middle of the rang of motion of the area where the patch is to be applied, so the skin is neither compressed nor stretched out too much.
Using two patches at a time for a few years now. For the past few months they seem to be irritating my skin, red and itching like crazy after I pull them off to replace. Very light scabbing. I use upper thigh/hip/bum area alternating sides. The adhesive ringing is variable.
Are you saying that you use the upper thigh on the front of your legs, or behind?
My patches are hard to remove, grip like a limpet but then I have very dry skin. Swop sides and inside and out side of thighs.
Quote from: D'Amalie on January 04, 2024, 04:30:00 PMAre you saying that you use the upper thigh on the front of your legs, or behind?
Front, skewed toward the inner thigh slightly. I wear 3-- I put two on my thigh and one on my tummy below my navel.
~Jenn
Quote from: Jenn104 on January 04, 2024, 05:29:33 PMFront, skewed toward the inner thigh slightly. I wear 3-- I put two on my thigh and one on my tummy below my navel.
~Jenn
I'm a fan of the inside/upper thigh area lately.
I rotate the two patches around from upper/side of bum and upper thigh.
As for results, is there a better place to put this content? Keeping within the guidelines of not spilling actual dosages, just results. A really big deal to me even though this post is embarrassingly private/personal, but maybe will help others manage expectations YMMV sort of thing.
HRT since 2019 (5yrs to date), my doctor suggested matching a cis progression timeline, similar to a natal girl experience of hormone changes happening over a few years, not in a single year.
Spiro first ramping up over a few years. Estradiol (patches to mitigate underlying health concerns) added January 2021 (3yrs to date) - Using 2 E patches changing every three days now. My doctor suggested increase of E late last summer after a 2 1/2 years of single patch, following the slow increase over 2-3 years of Spiro alone.
Results - Last week labs reported T suppressed to 13 with E steady at 100 - 110 over the last year.
Body hair - Under arm, leg and chest hair pretty low from the beginning of HRT. Seven years of waxing and depilating paid off, I suppose. I haven't had to shave my legs or under arms in 3 or so years.
Scalp hair no change, just wearing it longer to brushing the shoulders/below collar length. It has gone pretty much totally white, probably more age related than any other reason. I used to have black hair through my late 3o's, moving to grey somewhat normally through my 40's.
Breasts interestingly, Tanner 3-4. C cup (by measurement of band vs bust and volume of cup filled). Tanner 2-3 happened with Spiro alone. More volume on top using the nipple location as an indicator. If I'm honest that's the only disappointment. Nipples are larger, about half dollar sized. But I suppose I shouldn't expect perky teen results at my age. I'm about where my mother was in her late 40's. Nipple change looks more like the areolas are stretching over the last 4-6 months. More on the top half than the bottom. They are twice as large as before HRT to be sure.
Strength and muscle really haven't changed at all, I'm still a resident jar opener and I can break a bolt free that my man mountain of a son struggles with. Mybe more a function of experience, technique and dare I say wisdom?
[/pre]
You are allowed to post your dosages now, but if it seems like you're taking excessive risks, or disregarding safe medical advice, we still reserve the right to modify your posts. :)
Good safe levels are more important to your health and development than what you're putting in (or on) your body.
We also do not allow people to give medical advice or recommend doses to other people.
Hugs, Devlyn
I have been using patch's since I started HRT in 2018. I rotate the position on my stomach next to the bellybutton. I have never had a problem with them coming off and cleaning the ring just takes a little effort.
Since my GCS, my E level is where it should be for a 70-year-old woman. So, I will happily stay with the patches.
Ellen
I also titrated up over a few years, starting with herbs, then oral finasteride, then low-dose patches (yoyo-ed up and down a bit, due to dysphoria cycles), then slightly higher, then up to .200 mg/day (2 patches) now. And the results have far exceeded my expectations.
I've had good success with my patches, in terms of comfort. They haven't raised my levels very high yet (due for a test this week) but then I've been on a relatively low dose.
I go back and forth between right and left outer thigh, and the only prep I do is I make sure I keep those areas shaved. Although honestly even when I don't, I get a good clean contact.
Only on the rarest occasion, with this large round patch do I have issues with it starting to fall off, and only usually on the 6th or 7th day of the week. I bought some tape to use in those situations. I'm fortunate in that my skin suffers no irritation from either the patches or even the tape in those cases where I use it.
In terms of placement, though I highly suggest making sure the patch resides in a location where it will be completely covered by your underwear, or completely outside of it. I think if any of it rests on the seam, that's where you could have issues of the patch losing contact.
For those who went from pills to patches, how much difference did it make for you? I did sublingual for about 5 months, but it was not easy to take them regularly. I feel like patches will be easier since you need to apply them every few days to a week. Did changes happen faster for you? Thanks in advance.
Quote from: Susannah on January 11, 2024, 08:16:39 PMFor those who went from pills to patches, how much difference did it make for you? I did sublingual for about 5 months, but it was not easy to take them regularly. I feel like patches will be easier since you need to apply them every few days to a week. Did changes happen faster for you? Thanks in advance.
Patches are easier, in my opinion, effective, and less stress on the liver than pills. The normal prescription is patches changed twice a week. You can wear as little as 1/2 patch or even 1/4 (I did this), and I think the max dosage is 4 patches. Some have complained about them not being effective. My endo told me that blood tests tend to show lower E levels on patches than other methods. If this is true, that might explain why some folks don't like them.
Some have trouble with skin irritation. I've found that the only time irritation occurs is when the patch is placed on the stretchy part of your body and long, hot showers allow water to get behind parts of the patch, which creates irritation.
Effectiveness? I have C cup breasts on my thin frame. For me, they've worked splendidly.
Couldn't get on with patches. The glue left a rash & they fell off too easily. Went back on pills & have been on Lenzetto spray for some time now
I have never had patches per se. I'm vaguely aware that they existed last time I was on Susan's. I have never been offered or prescribed them by any of my GP's and only two of them were closely intimate with transsexuals and did not offer them.
When I first got my HRT, I religiously took my hormones on time. This consisted of depo provera (which took care of the testosterone) one injection every two weeks and premarin, 2mg tablets twice a day (which took care of estrogen). After surgery there was a time, when I was lactating. Which resulted in the depo provera being removed.
Fast forward a few years and there was a time when I was not taking any hormones. I do not why this happened. Maybe I was too busy with life, I was not sick and did not need to see the doctor or I was just plain lazy. Anyway I know I was concerned for not taking them, because when I did have some hormone tablets, I said to myself, I need to take them more regularly.
The solution to this problem was a semi permanent injection. That is a pellet was injected into bum and the pellet released the hormones over a period of time round about every 3 months. This of course involved having your blood work checked every so often.
So I decided to go down this route. In the long run this did not pan out because after the second injection. I moved back home to family and the sporadic pill taking continued and the endocrinologist who gave me the injections was hounded out for some reason, I don't know why. So today I take my progynova 2mg tablets twice a day, pretty much regularly, I now know, that it's extremely important to do so. The benefits far out way the risks involved.
So why do I not take patches
- Well I'm a swimmer who is in the water virtually twice a day.
- Patches leave a sticky residue around the edges, although solutions exist for this
- Patches can cause skin irritation, rotation works to avoid this.
- Other methods vs patch are better?
- Maybe I'm set in my old ways!
Maybe I need to go back to semi permanent pellet injection. That requires me to find a friendly endocrinologist. I'm in the process of finding out what my hormone levels are and in the future I will be getting blood works regularly so that I can keep an eye open on what my hormone levels are.
Take care everyone
Sarah B
I have not tried the patches, gels, or the pellets that were mentioned.
Use what medicine delivery method makes sense for you to use, as managed by your physicians. Be sure to let her or him know of any concerns and questions.
Sublingual works for me.
Chrissy
Hi ChrissyRyan
I love your new avatar, actually I changed my mind. I love your new hair coloring. I wish I had the intestinal fortitude, to do what you have done.
Take care
Sarah B
I'm back acound to upper buttocks. I have six sites, rotating one position every 3 days.
Jessica,
I appreciate you sharing your experience with estradiol patches and switching to injections. Your tips for those using patches are indeed valuable. To ensure optimal adhesion, it's crucial to prepare the skin by removing any hair and cleansing the area with an alcohol swab to eliminate oils and lotions. Applying firm pressure on the patch for 20-30 seconds after placement can also enhance its stickiness. It's impressive that your patches remained secure despite heavy perspiration during exercise.
If anyone experiences issues with their patches not adhering properly, consulting a doctor for a possible alternative brand with a stronger adhesive is a wise suggestion. Your practice of applying the patches near the belly button or on easily reachable areas of the buttocks is a practical approach, facilitating both application and removal.
The use of baby oil to ease the removal of adhesive residue is an excellent tip. Allowing the oil to soak for about 5 minutes can simplify the process significantly.
Thank you for sharing these insights, I am sure other members will find them very useful.
I have used patches for 5 years. To keep them from coming loose I put a Tegaderm HP Transparent dressing over them when applying new patches. I have seem a warning to not use the dressings over medical patches, as dosage of medicine could be increased.
My hormone labs have been taken every 3 months under supervision by my Gender Pathway doctor. She recently said I could now go to 6 month or even a year between labs. So even with the warning, any possible increase of Estradiol delivered has not been significant. They do leave the dark ring, but this comes off easily with alcohol swabs.
I also use the same dressing to keep my glucose sensor from coming off if it starts coming loose.
These dressings are readily available on Amazon. I purchase boxes of 100 dressings. The dressings are available in multiple sizes to fit your needs.
Thank you, and have a great day!
Coral
In case I wasn't clear. I use two patches at a time. Changing every three days.
Interesting thread. I just posted in my blog thread how happy I was that I was granted an exception by our insurance for my Estradot patches. Their preference was for me to use generic, so I had to apply for the exception. There is a huge, HUGE difference between the brand name and the generic. Judging from the posts in this thread, my experiences might be relevant.
The generic patches (Sandoz) are enormous. So big that I was only able to use three locations, meaning that they caused more irritation: I was re-using each location every ten days. The Estradot patches are much smaller. I can go a full month before re-using the same bit of skin.
The generic patches use water-soluble adhesive. So they come off in the shower or if you perspire a lot. It makes for easy soap-and-water cleanup, but you don't get the hormone if they don't stick. Estradot patches use an oil-soluble adhesive, so they stick in the shower. They do leave a black "bathtub ring" when you peel them off that soap won't get rid of. But a bit of oil (bath or baby oil) on a makeup pad will take it right off.
The big difference for me, and what caused me to switch, was that the adhesive on the generic is a serious irritant. They would always leave a red spot for a couple of days. It got worse, so after three years, I was applying new patches over bright red, inflamed, painful rashes from the previous week.
My doctor had always prescribed the Estradot patches, but the pharmacy substituted the generic. I asked my doctor to put "no substitutions" on the prescription, and I asked the pharmacy to put the same on my file. That worked well ever since. No more rashes or pain.
The paperwork from the insurance, due to a recent change in providers, was several pages long. It had me document exactly what the problem was with the generic. I had to get my doctor to sign off on it. But they accepted the application, and they granted me an exception.
Quote from: KathyLauren on January 28, 2024, 06:59:10 AMInteresting thread. I just posted in my blog thread how happy I was that I was granted an exception by our insurance for my Estradot patches. Their preference was for me to use generic, so I had to apply for the exception. There is a huge, HUGE difference between the brand name and the generic. Judging from the posts in this thread, my experiences might be relevant.
I've had a similar experience. I still have a decent stock of Mylan patches but I don't like them as much as the smaller ones. The bigger ones seem to pull off easier (when you don't want them to). I wanted Estradot patches but they refused to substitute. The last refill that arrived contained Grove brand patches, which are smaller and seem to work better.
Basically, not all patches are the same.
That's interesting.
I don't think I had paid any attention to brand names before... I just assumed patch differences were all based on size. And then when my .075/weekly patches were the biggest yet, at the first ones that had some difficultly staying on, when my endo was bumping me up to .1... I asked her "are they going to be even bigger?"
Not that I was complaining? I just assumed I'd need to use the tape I'd purchased to keep them on.
But the new stronger patches are significantly smaller.
That's the first time I looked at brands. The older patches were Mylan, the new ones are now Sandoz.
So yeah...very much not all the same.
A bit of info for anyone who is following this topic:
I've been using the "lesser" Mylan patches, working my way toward the more favorable Grove patches, but basically, they all work reasonably well, with some shortcomings. Long, hot showers will usually cause a patch that has been on for a few days to come loose. Pressing the patch back down seems to work, but I'm left wondering whether or not the patch is still able to deliver the proper dose.
I'm on vacation and lots of snorkeling is on the menu. For the first day, I left my two patches in place, only to find one of them stuck to my swim bottoms instead of my thigh. I bought a box of 3M Tegaderm HP, as they are generally recommended for patch users who swim. But I think I only tried one once, maybe 14 or 15 months ago. So I decided to give them another go: I put the Tegaderm over the remaining patch and here's the outcome:
I went snorkeling twice on the following day, spending several hours in warm salt water. I checked it later (before and after showering) and found it securely fastened, with no signs of peeling or leakage. The Tegaderm film is very sheer, sort of like a second skin. It's pretty weird, actually. But it works. Today was Patch Day, so I peeled that patch off and applied two new ones. The skin beneath the Tegaderm was red and it remains so, 8 hours later. But there's no irritation at all; it looks like sunburn. It should be noted that I didn't have the Tegaderm on my body for very long. I'll update this post or create a new one if the longer-term application causes any irritation.
I feel that anyone who consistently has issues with patches should consider using the Tegaderm. I won't be needing it under normal circumstances, but it's nice to know that I can cover my patches before going swimming and I shouldn't have to worry about losing a patch.
So....that's another endorsement for Tegaderm HP use.
I used patches for the first two years. They were great in the beginning. I wasn't super gung ho about all of this and wasn't totally sure this was the correct route for me to take.
About two years into my transition, after I had an orchiectomy, I switched to estrogen implanted pellets. Now I have them implanted every 6 months and I don't think about my estrogen at all otherwise. I love them! But they are not for everybody.
Quote from: Jessica_Rose on January 04, 2024, 06:52:49 AMI switched because I grew tired of the dark ring of debris caused by the adhesive, and because injections were much cheaper. Here are some tips for those who use patches.
Since I like to use exfoliating gloves in the shower, I've found that with a little of my favorite body wash on the glove, that the adhesive residue from the patch comes right off - along with the dead skin cells...win-win! LOL!
The problem I had with the Mylan patches is they have a thick foam backing. I am a gold prospector, so I spend my summers, hot and sweaty, bent over in a creek. With all of that flexing the edges of the patch kept catching on clothing and they would come loose. I am sure that all that moisture didn't help. My Endo suggested using Tegaderm to hold the patches in place. But Tegaderm is as thick as the patch which only compounded the problem. After numerous complaints from me about this inferior product, Doc ordered the Grove brand. Very thin plastic film, the size of a quarter. Now, wearing three patches at a time was doable, but the Tegaderm was still a problem. Doc spoke with our Women's Health Pharmacist and they found a solution. IV hand dressings. It is a thin flexible, porous film that covers the patches and holds them in place. Highly recommended!
I used patches when I first started HRT. I was rather wanting to avoid injections at the time, but ultimately switched to injections. The reason being the rash the patches caused and the fact they didn't stay on well. The results from the patches were negligible at best for me. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: LoriDee on March 16, 2024, 11:52:25 AMThe problem I had with the Mylan patches is they have a thick foam backing. I am a gold prospector, so I spend my summers, hot and sweaty, bent over in a creek. With all of that flexing the edges of the patch kept catching on clothing and they would come loose. I am sure that all that moisture didn't help. My Endo suggested using Tegaderm to hold the patches in place. But Tegaderm is as thick as the patch which only compounded the problem. After numerous complaints from me about this inferior product, Doc ordered the Grove brand. Very thin plastic film, the size of a quarter. Now, wearing three patches at a time was doable, but the Tegaderm was still a problem. Doc spoke with our Women's Health Pharmacist and they found a solution. IV hand dressings. It is a thin flexible, porous film that covers the patches and holds them in place. Highly recommended!
That sounds good Lori!
One patch trick, though, that could mitigate those clothing-catching issues you were having (should you have issue with the hand dressing): I have found that it's all about patch placement. Finding those sweet spots where the entirety of the patch will either be covered by underwear, or outside of it. It's when a patch rests in anyway on a clothing seam that the repeated rubbing and stress of that, however minimal, after a few days causes an air pocket, or an upturned corner... or anything even easier to snagged upon.
Quote from: LoriDee on March 16, 2024, 11:52:25 AMThe problem I had with the Mylan patches is they have a thick foam backing. I am a gold prospector, so I spend my summers, hot and sweaty, bent over in a creek. With all of that flexing the edges of the patch kept catching on clothing and they would come loose. I am sure that all that moisture didn't help. My Endo suggested using Tegaderm to hold the patches in place. But Tegaderm is as thick as the patch which only compounded the problem. After numerous complaints from me about this inferior product, Doc ordered the Grove brand. Very thin plastic film, the size of a quarter. Now, wearing three patches at a time was doable, but the Tegaderm was still a problem. Doc spoke with our Women's Health Pharmacist and they found a solution. IV hand dressings. It is a thin flexible, porous film that covers the patches and holds them in place. Highly recommended!
The Tegaderm HP dressings are have are big enough to cover 3 Grove patches and the material is super thin - much thinner than the thinnest estradiol patch I've used.
I was just looking at the last batch of Mylan patches they sent me. Labeled as EQV-Vivelle Dot. They are thin plastic, not the thick foam backing, and a smaller rectangular shape vs the 2"x2" squares I had before.
I'll have to remember that. Tegederm HP. Thanks, Courtney!
Quote from: LoriDee on March 17, 2024, 11:07:06 AMI was just looking at the last batch of Mylan patches they sent me. Labeled as EQV-Vivelle Dot. They are thin plastic, not the thick foam backing, and a smaller rectangular shape vs the 2"x2" squares I had before.
I'll have to remember that. Tegederm HP. Thanks, Courtney!
Yup. Tiny. Not like the big patches from 5 years ago. My wife's dr specified equivalent to VIVELLE-DOT. We thought that those might be the differentiating words.
There is something different in Mylan's formulation. For some reason, the patches just don't deliver the estradiol into my system the way they should. Others had said they had no issues with them. I am switching to Grove brand because I had success with those in the past. My prescriptions got twisted up when they kept bouncing me around to different doctors. Now the hope is that after four years + I can finally get my estradiol up to my target levels. I had no idea it would take this long.
Quote from: LoriDee on March 17, 2024, 02:18:51 PMThere is something different in Mylan's formulation. For some reason, the patches just don't deliver the estradiol into my system the way they should. Others had said they had no issues with them. I am switching to Grove brand because I had success with those in the past. My prescriptions got twisted up when they kept bouncing me around to different doctors. Now the hope is that after four years + I can finally get my estradiol up to my target levels. I had no idea it would take this long.
LoriDee,
It is very important to get the right levels for you and that your personal physicians are monitoring all of this carefully for your well being.
I hope everything works out for you for your MTF HRT management and also your overall health.
Also: Would not it be nice if there were less disease, pains, and body issues for all?
Chrissy
@ChrissyRyan Indeed it would be heaven on Earth. I believe it is achievable. But sadly, most people are not willing to turn off the TV, get off the couch and learn how. I am writing a book about it. Originally, I just wrote separate articles discussing various topics and posted them on my website. Now I am rewriting them so they flow from one topic to the next instead of jumping back and forth. Each article could be a separate chapter, but there is still work that needs to be done.
Quote from: LoriDee on March 17, 2024, 05:54:36 PM@ChrissyRyan
Indeed it would be heaven on Earth. I believe it is achievable. But sadly, most people are not willing to turn off the TV, get off the couch and learn how. I am writing a book about it. Originally, I just wrote separate articles discussing various topics and posted them on my website. Now I am rewriting them so they flow from one topic to the next instead of jumping back and forth. Each article could be a separate chapter, but there is still work that needs to be done.
Simply write clearly and be organized, flow is important. There are different styles to use depending on type of writing and your audience for sure. I wish you well on your writing.
Chrissy
I've finally used up my stock of Mylan patches and switched to Grove a week ago. I have my quarterly labs scheduled for tomorrow. My E levels have never quite gotten to where they're supposed to be so I'm curious to see if this switch makes a difference.
@Courtney G It will be interesting to see the difference. My new Grove patches arrive today, but labs are not until April 8th. Hopefully, we can both start hitting our target levels. Let us know the results, if you don't mind.
Quote from: LoriDee on March 18, 2024, 09:43:15 AM@Courtney G
It will be interesting to see the difference. My new Grove patches arrive today, but labs are not until April 8th. Hopefully, we can both start hitting our target levels. Let us know the results, if you don't mind.
Yes, absolutely. I'll post them here, as I think the data is relevant to the topic.
Hey all - a patches question for you.
My endo just upped my dose to 0.15/week... which means a 0.1 patch and a 0.05 patch.
This will be the first time I've worn multiple patches. Is there any particular strategy to maximize efficacy? Or is it just the same as with one — meaning just put them in the same places I normally put my one, and it's fine if I put two in the same area, or one on each side of my body, etc - that doesn't matter?
Just curious how those who have done this have played this in the past.
Thanks!
Allie
I change patches twice a week and wear three at a time. I put all three on the left side on Tuesdays and the right side on Fridays. I also use an IV Hand Dressing to cover them so clothing doesn't rub them off. The brand is IV 3000 and they work great. I like them better than Tagederm. Waterproof yet porous so skin can breathe. No problems with patch residue when they come off. It seems the residue is just dust/lint that collects on the glue at the edge of the patch. With the dressing over them, the edges are not exposed.
Quote from: LoriDee on April 23, 2024, 08:36:18 PMI change patches twice a week and wear three at a time. I put all three on the left side on Tuesdays and the right side on Fridays. I also use an IV Hand Dressing to cover them so clothing doesn't rub them off. The brand is IV 3000 and they work great. I like them better than Tagederm. Waterproof yet porous so skin can breathe. No problems with patch residue when they come off. It seems the residue is just dust/lint that collects on the glue at the edge of the patch. With the dressing over them, the edges are not exposed.
Yeah, I just change weekly... and I've been alternating sides.
I have no problem with the patches staying on... I do have a bit of an issue with the residue (sometimes the first night of a patch, a little gets on the sheets in the bed) but otherwise no other issues.
So I think based on what you're saying I'll probably keep doing what I'm doing — just add the second patch. So two patches on one side, and then move them to the other side the next week.
Curious to see what this 50% increase will do and if I'll notice a change!!
Quote from: LoriDee on March 18, 2024, 09:43:15 AMIt will be interesting to see the difference. My new Grove patches arrive today, but labs are not until April 8th. Hopefully, we can both start hitting our target levels. Let us know the results, if you don't mind.
My labs results using 2x .100mg/day Grove patches + 50mg/day spiro was spot on:
Estradiol: 220 pg/mL
Testosterone: 25 ng/dL
I happened to meet with my endo today and she was very happy with the numbers. I should point out that I tested closer to peak than trough. I replaced my patches on a Monday evening and got tested on Tuesday afternoon. Even though patches are supposed to have a very even delivery rate, I've found that I can "feel" the highest E level the day after Patch Day, followed by a reduction for the next couple of days until I'm due to replace them. Most notable is breast tenderness, which always peaks on the day after I replace the patches. I still have a pretty fast metabolism, so I think I "burn up" the medication faster than some.
Thanks, Courtney!
I've found I don't notice the peak, but the trough. It's more like I get moody and irritable, then I remember that tomorrow is patch day. That was with the Mylan patches. With the Grove patches, I still notice it but not to the same extreme. I also noticed that the difference between the two brands is the formulation. Grove patches deliver estradiol whereas Mylan patches deliver estradiol hemihydrate. I read the pamphlet that comes in the box with the patches.
I don't know what that means chemically, but apparently, my body knows the difference. We will see what my labs say in June.
I'm not sure I can tell a peak from a trough. I use two patches changing every 3rd day (72hours). ESTRADIOL 0.1MG/DAY (EQV-VIVELLE-DOT) APPLY 2 PATCHES TO AREA OF THE SKIN EVERY SEVENTY-TWO (72) HOURS FOR HRT. TOTAL EVERY DAY DOSE 200MCG EVERY DAY. I noticed a sister said they changed only once a week? I didn't think there was an option for that, what brand?
Mylan offers the once-a-week. I didn't like them because they didn't seem to last the whole week. My levels were rollercoastering, so doc changed to twice a week to even things out.
Huh. I don't think I notice peaks nor troughs. It seems very smooth for me.
My endo was a bit surprised that my level dropped in the latest testing — she kind of attributed it to something being off with the test — but said obviously we'll see what it looks like in three months and with the 50% increase.
My T levels have cratered and stayed there, so the spiro dosage is unchanged.
But maybe now that I'll be up to a bigger level on the patches I will see if I'm aware of any differences during the week. I will try to be aware of them.
I use 2 x100ml twice a week, never notice any dips/peaks. Getting the residue off is a pain, make up cleaning pad and surgical spirit works but if my nails are done it melts it.
Quote from: imallie on April 23, 2024, 08:26:38 PMHey all - a patches question for you.
My endo just upped my dose to 0.15/week... which means a 0.1 patch and a 0.05 patch.
This will be the first time I've worn multiple patches. Is there any particular strategy to maximize efficacy? Or is it just the same as with one — meaning just put them in the same places I normally put my one, and it's fine if I put two in the same area, or one on each side of my body, etc - that doesn't matter?
Just curious how those who have done this have played this in the past.
Thanks!
Allie
I wear two patches, changed every 3.5 days. I don't notice peaks or troughs.
I change the location on my belly every time I stick on a new pair. With the old Sandoz generic patches, which were enormous, there was only room for three sites. So each site got only a 7 day break. The combination of that plus the caustic adhesive caused severe, painful rashes.
Now I use Estradot patches, which are much smaller and have a more benign adhesive. There is room on my belly for eight different locations, meaning that I can go a whole month before re-using the same piece of skin. No more rashes.
The adhesive residue from the old generic patches was water-soluble (which is whey they didn't stick well in the shower), and washed of easily with soap and water. The Estradot patches use an oil-soluble adhesive, which doesn't wash off easily. A little bit of bath oil on a makeup pad takes the residue off in a minute or two. I don't know what brand you use or what adhesive it uses. But if soap and water don't remove the residue, try oil.
Mine are the Sandoz patches, but luckily I don't have issues with rashes... maybe a bit of dry skin in the area but since I go back and forth, it normally clears up after a day or two so by the time I go back to that side the next week, it's good.
And I tend to put mine on my hips / butt
By the way, I just put on my first dual patch dose a moment ago.
I think, in the most un-feminine way possible to describe it, adding the second patch felt very much like Thanos adding another infinity stone to his gauntlet.
(Sorry, not sorry! 😉😂)
I've found the Grove patches to be superior to the Mylan ones, as they're smaller and stay fitted longer. Regarding the peak/trough thing, your offered data points kind of reinforce my thought that I "burn" through the medication faster than most.
I have a refill on the way right now and I'm really hoping they're not Mylan. They don't allow me to specify.
Allie, I get it. Upping your dose is a powerful feeling. I found it thrilling.
Dotti?
My wife is using up her Mylan dots. Her next box is Dotti because that's the only generic brand we found available nearby. Has anyone had experience with it?
I had never heard of them, so just did a quick search:
"Dotti has an average rating of 2.0 out of 10 from a total of 36 reviews for the treatment of Postmenopausal Symptoms. 8% of reviewers reported a positive experience, while 89% reported a negative experience."
This is from Drugs.com
Dotti Patch Reviews (https://www.drugs.com/comments/estradiol/dotti-for-postmenopausal-symptoms.html?page=2#:~:text=Dotti%20has%20an%20average%20rating,89%25%20reported%20a%20negative%20experience.)
WebMD reports similar reviews.
I hope you have good luck with them. Let us know.
Hugs!
Surprised to see poor ratings for the Dotti patches. I have used Dotti almost exclusively since I started nearly 5 years ago, as the brand my doctor prescribes and pharmacy provides. The low transfer rate my be part of the reason I have experienced very slow results. Of course not being allowed to have testosterone blockers has also been a major reason.
Coral
@coral Hi, Coral.
That was my experience too with the Mylan patches. They had to keep increasing the dose and I still never hit my "target" level of estradiol, so development was very slow. My Endo said that testosterone is a much more powerful hormone, so even a little can compete with estrogens.
Eventually, she took me off Spiro and had me taking Eligard (injection every three months) and Casodex tablets. I wonder if that might work for you. I have no idea what the cost might be. It could be prohibitively expensive.
The Eligard blocks testosterone production and the Casodex blocks testosterone receptors. That way if any estradiol gets converted to testosterone it will have no effect. The combination of the two is equivalent to a "chemical castration" which keeps T levels at their minimum.
A low dose of spiro made a big difference for me, as E monotherapy wasn't suppressing T. Took several months for levels to finally get there, though. And since T has been suppressed, I've experienced more skin and body changes and my breasts have matured.
Quote from: coral on April 28, 2024, 12:54:21 PMSurprised to see poor ratings for the Dotti patches. I have used Dotti almost exclusively since I started nearly 5 years ago, as the brand my doctor prescribes and pharmacy provides.
So far, my wife only has mild irritation from the Dotti patches.
Quote from: coralThe low transfer rate my be part of the reason I have experienced very slow results. Of course not being allowed to have testosterone blockers has also been a major reason.
She's getting her blood levels checked next week. 🤞
Quote from: LoriDee on April 28, 2024, 02:15:52 PMMy Endo said that testosterone is a much more powerful hormone, so even a little can compete with estrogens.
Eventually, she took me off Spiro and had me taking Eligard (injection every three months) and Casodex tablets. I wonder if that might work for you.
Thanks. We'll consider it. ❤️