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Third Year Of HRT Changes

Started by NancyDrew1930, April 05, 2024, 01:32:15 PM

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LoriDee, Iztaccihuatl and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

ChrissyRyan

Quote from: LoriDee on April 16, 2024, 10:18:40 AMYes! I didn't notice it, but my dental hygienist said that she noticed my skin being smoother and softer. I think I notice it mostly after shaving my legs. I love how soft and smooth they get.

It is a lovely and welcomed change, for sure.

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.
Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Be brave, be strong.  Try a little kindness.  I am a brown eyed brunette. 
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NancyDrew1930

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on April 15, 2024, 09:09:42 PMNot just at the three year milestone, but earlier, my face filled out.
My rear has not, thus there is not a 10-12 inch difference between my waist and hips.

Smooth skin?  Or perhaps better said as smoother feeling skin?  Yes, some of that too.  Not to be mistaken with softened hot water and soap when taking a shower, that feels smooth too. 

Chrissy

I'm noticing that my face is getting more feminine—-of course because of my intersex condition it never really developed the brow ridges and other masculine features (from what my doctors can tell for most of my life before HRT my testosterone was sitting right on the border of the "crossover" zone where the say if males are in there they have low testosterone but if women are in it then they have high testosterone.  So they figure my natural estrogen during my puberty was doing more than most males—-however I also carried a lot in the stomach so they think a lot of my testosterone was converted to estrogen from the aromatase in my belly fat), so I never had those strong masculine facial features and it also helps explain why I have managed to maintain my early-twenties look when I am in my early-forties.

Last night I was out for dinner with a group I volunteer with, and I'm not out to them, however I just saw a photo on Facebook and I was in the back in the photo, and at first I was like "Who's that woman?  I don't recall seeing her there."  Then I realized that it was me!  The way I had my hair, I really had that feminine look even though I was presenting male.

LoriDee

I was told that T is a much more powerful hormone than E. Which is why we get T-blockers in addition to E. They suspected that like you said, my T was being converted from E. So they took me off Spiro and put me on two other blockers. One prevents T from being produced. The other blocks the T receptors, so if any E is being converted it will have no effect. They still haven't figured out why my E is so low despite continually increasing my dosage over four years. But the small improvements I have experienced are very affirming, like seeing a photo or a glance in the mirror and realizing that is you!
My Life is Based on a True Story.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html

Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything.
Maybe it's about un-becoming everything that isn't really you,
so you can be who you were meant to be in the first place.


2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019 - Full time / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - Legal Name Change /
2024 - Voice Training
  • skype:.?call
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NancyDrew1930

Quote from: LoriDee on April 18, 2024, 02:28:08 PMI was told that T is a much more powerful hormone than E. Which is why we get T-blockers in addition to E. They suspected that like you said, my T was being converted from E. So they took me off Spiro and put me on two other blockers. One prevents T from being produced. The other blocks the T receptors, so if any E is being converted it will have no effect. They still haven't figured out why my E is so low despite continually increasing my dosage over four years. But the small improvements I have experienced are very affirming, like seeing a photo or a glance in the mirror and realizing that is you!

No, for me my E levels are good.  However, before I started HRT, I had been tested a few times for my testosterone levels over my life, and they always showed me testosterone back then being on the border of being low.
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NancyDrew1930

Quote from: LoriDee on April 18, 2024, 02:28:08 PMI was told that T is a much more powerful hormone than E. Which is why we get T-blockers in addition to E. They suspected that like you said, my T was being converted from E. So they took me off Spiro and put me on two other blockers. One prevents T from being produced. The other blocks the T receptors, so if any E is being converted it will have no effect. They still haven't figured out why my E is so low despite continually increasing my dosage over four years. But the small improvements I have experienced are very affirming, like seeing a photo or a glance in the mirror and realizing that is you!

Sorry, I got interrupted earlier, however, before I started HRT, what the doctor's think was happening was that a vast majority of my testosterone was being converted to estrogen by the belly fat (dietitians have concluded that I'm genetically disposed to being overweight) that I had, and since I had had the situation since I was a baby, possible even in the womb (or I might also have PAIS), my body developed as intersex, because my estrogen was probably at the same level as my testosterone or slightly higher, to where my body developed both male and female characteristics and neither to a fully developed form.  (https://health.usnews.com/health-care/for-better/articles/extra-abdominal-weight-in-men-health-risks) (It's interesting how U.S. News mentions 'Belly fat converts naturally-made testosterone into estrogen, which promotes the development and maintenance of female characteristics.')

So as I was saying, before I started MTF HRT, I had never really fully developed my male facial features or other male things. Of course I didn't fully develop my female features either.  However, since starting MTF HRT it is helping my female features to come out more to the world.

Sweet luck

Quote from: Sarah B on April 06, 2024, 08:09:06 AMHello Sweet Luck

My name is Sarah B   and I would like to formally, Welcome you to Susan's Place!

You mentioned in your first post;

  • You can expect your boobs to be smaller than your closest female relatives by up to a cup size.
  • You may notice signs of breast enlargement around the third month if you're using both hormone blockers and hormones.
  • Breasts take 3 to 5 years from  tanner stage 1 to tanner stage 5.

When I first started HRT I knew it would take time for my breasts to develop and I heard at the time it would take about 5 years.  I was patient, so in the end I did not worry about them growing.

We strive to make this a safe place to find information and to share your thoughts and comments regarding your journey. Just about everyone here has been confused about their gender at some point in their lives. Some discover they are transgender and others realize they are non-binary, while others may feel they fit best somewhere else along the gender spectrum. No matter where that may be, you are always welcome at Susan's Place.

Once you feel comfortable here, it would be appreciated if you add a little bit more about yourself in the Introductions Forum.  I'm always learning something new.

In addition members of Susan's will more than likely will discuss problems or issues that are similar to yours as most of us have experienced these as well.  You can read about my story (still in progress)  in a link listed below my signature.

Please review the links at the end of this message, they include information which will help you navigate the site and use the available features. When you reach 15 posts, you will be able to send and reply to private messages and you will also be able to add an avatar to your profile, until then if you have any questions about the Susan's Place site and the Forums, please feel free to contact, the Forum Admin Danielle Northern Star Girl alaskandanielle@yahoo.com

Once again, Welcome to Susan's Place!
Sarah B
Offical Greeter
@Sweet luck
@LoriDee
@Northern Star Girl

Things that you should read





Hello, dear Sarah! Sorry for posting so late, since April I suffered from a strong gender disforia. So even I wanted to give up my HRT, I was disappointed with no effects. But now everything is all right! I feel my body is getting more and more feminine, I feel my new brests growing and I'm so happy 😊. By the way I've posted my newcomer's introduction.

Sweet luck

By the way, I'm not passing as a female, besides I have my long hair and rather feminine face and voice, being on HRT and wearing unisex. But noone unfortunately identifies me as a female. So I'm planning to have a ffs surgery after several month of HRT. Now I'm looking for a good clinic in Thailand or South Korea to fix my face.
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NancyDrew1930

I just got my yearly bloodwork done this morning, and when I see my NP I'm going to ask to be put on progesterone.  Cyproterone is a progestin, so it has helped, however from what I have read bioidentical progesterone helps to promote even further feminization, and is better, such as growing the breasts to Tanner 5.
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LoriDee

Quote from: NancyDrew1930 on Today at 12:29:30 PMI just got my yearly bloodwork done this morning, and when I see my NP I'm going to ask to be put on progesterone.  Cyproterone is a progestin, so it has helped, however from what I have read bioidentical progesterone helps to promote even further feminization, and is better, such as growing the breasts to Tanner 5.

I have been on progesterone for just over a year now. Both medicines work the same way, but bioidentical progesterone has less health risks. Synthetic progestins have been shown to increase the risk of cancers, etc. Bioidentical progesterone has no such risk. When women become pregnant both their estrogen and progesterone levels rise to high levels. Extremely few pregnant women develop cancer, therefore bioidentical is the way to go.

I still argue with my doctors who want to keep levels low "to a safe level". They ignore the biological fact that high estrogen and high progesterone are what prepare the breasts for breastfeeding. We could get to Tanner Stage 5 in 9 months! But they prefer to take things S L O W L Y and after four years, my levels still have not hit the "normal" levels I should be at. They think because of my age I should be at a post-menopausal range when I am still trying to get through puberty.

My new Gynecologist and I will have a long discussion next month. I might have to tell her I want to meet with a lactation consultant to see how she would modify my hormone protocol to induce lactation in 9 months. She can't argue that it can't be done. It already has. A transgender woman breastfed her partner's infant successfully for six months before switching to formula. It was all over the news back in 2017.
My Life is Based on a True Story.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html

Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything.
Maybe it's about un-becoming everything that isn't really you,
so you can be who you were meant to be in the first place.


2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019 - Full time / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - Legal Name Change /
2024 - Voice Training
  • skype:.?call
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    The following users thanked this post: Sarah B

NancyDrew1930

Quote from: LoriDee on Today at 01:26:44 PMI have been on progesterone for just over a year now. Both medicines work the same way, but bioidentical progesterone has less health risks. Synthetic progestins have been shown to increase the risk of cancers, etc. Bioidentical progesterone has no such risk. When women become pregnant both their estrogen and progesterone levels rise to high levels. Extremely few pregnant women develop cancer, therefore bioidentical is the way to go.

I still argue with my doctors who want to keep levels low "to a safe level". They ignore the biological fact that high estrogen and high progesterone are what prepare the breasts for breastfeeding. We could get to Tanner Stage 5 in 9 months! But they prefer to take things S L O W L Y and after four years, my levels still have not hit the "normal" levels I should be at. They think because of my age I should be at a post-menopausal range when I am still trying to get through puberty.

My new Gynecologist and I will have a long discussion next month. I might have to tell her I want to meet with a lactation consultant to see how she would modify my hormone protocol to induce lactation in 9 months. She can't argue that it can't be done. It already has. A transgender woman breastfed her partner's infant successfully for six months before switching to formula. It was all over the news back in 2017.

I don't go through my family doctor or other healthcare providers that do not specialize in trans health issues.  My family doctor and other doctor's that I deal with do know about the clinic that I go through for my HRT.  So I do deal with doctor's and nurse practitioners who work with trans people and specialize in trans health. 

With the Cyproterone Acetate, ever since I started in June 2022 I am on what, from what I have seen online, an ultra low daily dose that doesn't even come close to what the guidelines say for daily.  (I'm trying to dance around not posting how much I take.) By August 2022, the Cypro  at that level had essentially killed my testosterone, however, since it does go through  my liver, I also have to wonder just how much of the progestin part has been working on me.  I would say probably a tiny bit, but with the first-pass-the-liver part probably not as much as I will get on bioidentical progesterone.

I'm also going to ask my NP if I can up my Estradial intake to the maximum each day.
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LoriDee

Very often, providers like to quote the Women's Health Initiative study as their guidelines. Even the FDA has warnings for Prometrium (bioidentical progesterone). I point out that the WHI study was a good thing and we learned much about Premarin (Conjugated HORSE estrogen) and synthetic progestins. The study was canceled due to too many instances of cancer in the study subjects.

I have read the study myself and there are problems with it. The purpose of the study was to determine if adding progestin to Premarin would improve the cardiovascular health of post-menopausal women. The problems with that study are:

1. Not a single participant was transgender.
2. Our prescribing protocol now includes bioidentical progesterone, not synthetic progestin. We are not prescribed CEE (Conjugated Equine Estrogen), i.e. Premarin.
3. You cannot look at the results of one drug and automatically assume that applies to all drugs in that category.

As part of that study, they looked at just Premarin and found it causes an increased risk of blood clots and stroke. They looked at just the progestins and found that it increases the risk of certain cancers. But they ignore the fact that neither of these products is found in the human body.

Yes, they are still prescribed. But as you pointed out, they do it at a low dose to avoid those risks. And some patients have a good outcome.

As yet, not one provider has been able to explain to me why we don't follow basic biology and do what the human body normally does. Estrogen levels rise at the beginning of the monthly cycle for the first half, then drop in the second half. Progesterone rises in the second half and drops at the end.

Estrogen provides fat distribution (bust, hips. and butt) and develops the ductwork inside the breast connecting to the nipple. This causes an increase in bust projection. Progesterone builds the glands (alveoli) that will produce milk later. This causes an increase in breast volume.

When pregnancy occurs, both estrogen and progesterone climb several times higher than baseline. This kicks breast development into high gear so that they will be fully matured and ready for lactation in nine months. Progesterone blocks prolactin so that lactation does not occur. Post-partum, (after birth), both hormones drop to baseline levels, allowing prolactin to cause milk ejection.

Because all of these hormones are bioidentical, because they come from the human body, the high levels do their job and do not cause all of the dangerous side-effects. If the risk is there, there would be very high numbers of pregnant women with cancer, blood clots, and stroke. But there isn't.

Sorry for the long post, but this is the long discussion I will have with my gynecologist. We will see what her response is.
My Life is Based on a True Story.
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247442.0.html

Maybe the journey isn't so much about becoming anything.
Maybe it's about un-becoming everything that isn't really you,
so you can be who you were meant to be in the first place.


2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019 - Full time / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - Legal Name Change /
2024 - Voice Training
  • skype:.?call
  •