Quote from: Allie Jayne on Today at 08:07:48 PMSephira, In my experience, most people who have the difference explained to them, understand and will then see trans people in a different light. Yes, there is a lot of information around, but most people do not see this information, they see tv shows about drag and assume this is about trans people. We, the drag and trans communities need to educate about the difference. Because trans issues are important to us, we learn about them, but for people who have no contact with trans people, I must forgive them for their ignorance of the issues, and if I need them to understand, I feel the need to educate them.

Drag and trans overlap at times with participants (as mentioned by the OP), but I wanted to mention the overlap in public perception as it is important for us to recognise.

Hugs,

Allie

My point is that if someone wants to base their whole world view on a reality TV show with some token faux-trans person, because it gets views.. we cannot control what the media shove down people's throats. Because they only care about yes or no. Light or dark. Either approach to programming gets views. Make someone hate something, or make them love something. If they make someone not care about something either way... they've failed in their purpose.

You have to dig a bit deeper to see how this performance art is it's own thing. I very much agree. But it makes me uncomfortable how it makes trans people uncomfortable because I don't think this was ever the intent throughout the whole of the millennia it was a thing. If anything, drag was there before trans was even being talked about.

If people confuse the two, that's no one's fault other than the person doing the confusing. Because they take everything at face value and don't want to educate themselves. It's not something the trans person, or the person who performs as a drag artist should feel any sort of guit about or association with.

You know what they say about assumptions. It makes an ass out of u and i.

Quote from: Sephirah on Today at 06:57:01 PMThis has nothing to do with the artform, Allie.

This is a prime example of "I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you."

Acknowledging the confusion is just acknowledging that people need to get to grips with themselves. it is not the performer of the piece anymore than it is Romeo and Juliet in the 16th century having a girl play Romeo.

Ignorance is the realm of the individual. It's a choice people make to not want to understand. Especially with sites like this... that allow anyone to learn.

Ignorance is no excuse. Not anymore.

Confusion is only a thing because people refuse to learn the difference. And there comes a time where you cannot forgive ignorance in all this. With literally so much information around.

Sephira, In my experience, most people who have the difference explained to them, understand and will then see trans people in a different light. Yes, there is a lot of information around, but most people do not see this information, they see tv shows about drag and assume this is about trans people. We, the drag and trans communities need to educate about the difference. Because trans issues are important to us, we learn about them, but for people who have no contact with trans people, I must forgive them for their ignorance of the issues, and if I need them to understand, I feel the need to educate them.

Drag and trans overlap at times with participants (as mentioned by the OP), but I wanted to mention the overlap in public perception as it is important for us to recognise.

Hugs,

Allie

Quote from: KathyLauren on Today at 07:51:35 PMYes, this.

I recognize drag as an art form, and I know the performers are often very talented and good at what they do.  And I know that the performers are usually good allies for us.  But watching a drag performance isn't my cup of tea.  As a caricature, it hits a little too close to home.  It feels that it is me - us - that is being parodied, and that makes me uncomfortable.  I think the general public are not clear on the difference between drag and trans and that the resulting confusion hurts us as a group.

You're probably right, Kathy. But it isn't meant to be a parody. That's the thing. It's not a commentary on anything. You're probably right that in a world where trans people are striving to have a voice... this is more of a thing... but this has been going on for literally millennia. If you want to look at it objectively, drag was more accepted throughout the whole of history than being trans was.

And I don't think it's really fair to... pardon the pun... to drag this into the trans sphere when it never has been for hundreds of years. Either through trans people or not trans people wanting to find things to use as a spire to make an issue around. If some drag performers come out later to be trans... good for them. That's no different to any other actor doing any other performance coming out to be trans.

I really don't see an issue other than people making it an issue because they either don't want to learn about, or don't want to accept the difference. Which... isn't your problem.

Hi, Olivia.

I have not been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, and I don't have kids to worry about, but still, your post sounded very familiar to me.  I think you will find that a lot of us can relate.

Once I realized (at age 61) that I was indeed trans and I needed to transition, I knew that the next step was to tell my wife.  I was so anxious about doing so that it took me six months from the time I decided to do it until I was actually able to.  Many times in that period, I would have it all worked out in my head what I was going to say, I'd draw a breath to say it, and then chicken out.

As part of that process, I had to come to terms with the possibility that she might leave me because of it.  Luckily for me, she was made of stronger stuff and we are still together.  But I had to be ready for the other possibility, too.

So you are definitely in good company here.  I wish you good luck in finding your path forward.  I second the recommendation to talk to a good gender therapist.

Quote from: Allie Jayne on Today at 06:48:31 PMtrans people really have nothing against drag, but dislike the confusion of the two.

Yes, this.

I recognize drag as an art form, and I know the performers are often very talented and good at what they do.  And I know that the performers are usually good allies for us.  But watching a drag performance isn't my cup of tea.  As a caricature, it hits a little too close to home.  It feels that it is me - us - that is being parodied, and that makes me uncomfortable.  I think the general public are not clear on the difference between drag and trans and that the resulting confusion hurts us as a group.

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on Today at 06:26:26 PMI wonder why they call them chips in the UK instead of fries.
Maybe some people in the UK wonder why in the USA we call them fries and not chips.

Chrissy

Because in the UK the name is based on the vegetable rather than the cooking method. We call them chips because they're slices of potato, chipped off into individual things. Each slice of a slice is a chip of a potato.

We don't always fry them. You can have chips done just as well in an air fryer or oven. And I would argue air fryer chips are the GOAT. Very little oil, very little energy use... literally best taste.

Mushy peas, as a northern lass... honestly you need to try them. With mint sauce... a home made, boiled marrowfat pea... never get the stuff from a chip shop, or in tins, make it yourself... it's to die for.

The quality of fish here varies wildly. It can be hugely hit or miss. When it's hit, it's the best thing in the world. Where people take care over the quality of the batter, the thickness of the fillet of fish... and not just shoving a thing in a tray for tourists who don't know any better.

Do I like it? yes, when it's done properly. Sadly it's not done properly about 70% of the time.

Scampi chips and peas

I've been to restaurants in New England where you get to pick the type of fish you want.

Doogies, where I get my 2ft hot dogs, calls it fish and chips just like they do in the UK.

This has nothing to do with the artform, Allie.

This is a prime example of "I can explain it to you, but I cannot understand it for you."

Acknowledging the confusion is just acknowledging that people need to get to grips with themselves. it is not the performer of the piece anymore than it is Romeo and Juliet in the 16th century having a girl play Romeo.

Ignorance is the realm of the individual. It's a choice people make to not want to understand. Especially with sites like this... that allow anyone to learn.

Ignorance is no excuse. Not anymore.

Confusion is only a thing because people refuse to learn the difference. And there comes a time where you cannot forgive ignorance in all this. With literally so much information around.

Drag is an Art form, and a performance art, and good drag artists are among the most talented people. It seems to be the most identifiable aspect of the LGBTQIA+ community to the general public. Many trans folk indulge in drag, some as part of their journey of discovery, and this is one area of overlap.

Unfortunately, as Drag is a performance, and often featured, it is widely confused in the general public with transgender. Drag makes a theatrical caricature of the sexes, while transgender needs to correct an internal incongruence. They are different. Often, the first image our friends and family imagine when trans people come out, is drag. While those people usually enjoy the art form, they really don't want their loved ones to adopt it as a lifestyle. Even legislators confuse this and it affects laws governing transgender people. And so this misconception creates a bad situation for trans people, and for this reason, many trans people do not like drag.

Let's be clear, trans people really have nothing against drag, but dislike the confusion of the two. While I believe Drag is a legitimate performing art, I think it is important to acknowledge the confusion, and urge all to do their best to clarify this to the general public. It won't solve the problems, but it might help.

Hugs,

Allie