Susan's Place Transgender Resources

See, Now I Have A Problem With This

Filed By Dr. Jillian T. Weiss | June 23, 2011 1:00 PM

http://www.bilerico.com/2011/06/see_now_i_have_a_problem_with_this.php (http://www.bilerico.com/2011/06/see_now_i_have_a_problem_with_this.php)

Amid the expanding trans "umbrella wars," to borrow a phrase from Gemma Seymour, I have striven to provide objectivity and compassion to all sides, as I have sympathies for both transsexual people (of whom I am one), and transgender people (of whom I guess I am also one since it includes practically everyone), and crossdressers (of whom I once thought I was one), and genderqueers (a term mostly for younger people, of whom I am not one), and the miscellaneous other fabulous queers.

But there comes a time when one must take a stand. See this picture? This man allegedly wore the outfit on an airline flight, and does so regularly, "for fun," according to quotes attributed to him.

I suggest the good Dr Weiss has got the wrong end of the stick here.

It ia apparent, that this man is dressing as he does for a bit of self effacing fun.

If his purpose was to direct that fun at women, for example, then it could be seen as offensive.

If his purpose was to poke fun as transgender, it could be seen as offensive.

If his purpose was to outrage and offende the sensibilities of anyone, then it might be seen as such.

But if, as it seems, his intent is to poke fun at himself, to make himself a clown, then I personally cannot see what the problem is.

It does not matter to me WHAT he is (although I did like the 'crazy mother******' label someone in the comments section had used).  The reality is that he was NOT dressed appropriately for ANY manner of public appearance.  It would also be wholly inappropriate for a woman to appear in public in that manner.   

However, that is precisely the sort of kook that the umbrella concept incorporates and is precisely the sort of kook that presents serious stumbling blocks to getting a legislative body to take the prospective needs of transsexuals seriously.

Quote from: Ann Onymous on June 23, 2011, 03:55:25 PMThe reality is that he was NOT dressed appropriately for ANY manner of public appearance.

I don't see why it matters what he's wearing as long as it doesn't violate any laws or airport regulations.  Apparently, it doesn't.

Dress codes are all arbitrary, anyway.

This dweeb is obviously not trans. He is having a lark at our expense in the long run. I doubt he even has a clue as to the type of damage he can potentialy do to our comunity.

I am faced with the thoughts;
How do we answer this type of behavior? People will associate his behavior with us when laws protecting us are contemplated. I betcha a dollar against a dime that the next time some region has public debate regarding gender identity protection laws, this guy is going to be brought up.

It is obvious the guy is a guy. I highly doubt any trans woman who had the misfortune of looking as male as he does would go out in public dressed like that. That would not be condusive to being seen as a woman. As it is obvious that the guy is not makeing a gender statement but meerly a shock value statement his mode of dress and presentation should not be covered by laws protecting gender expression. But then there is a slipery slope here.....

No good will come of this.

My problem with all of this is simply that those of us who are not interested in causing a public sight, who take time and care for our appearance in our true gender and who behave in a mainline fashion, are not seen at all.  This can be good or bad, and also good and bad, and the opposite too.  If I am not seen, then how can I be known? 

I am on the side of those who say we must be seen in order to educate society in acceptance and honor for those of us who are honorable.  The more of us SEEN as totally boring and mainline in our appearances will help the overall problem to come to a resolution.  Those who disappear into the ordinary make the subject of this discussion more of the unacceptable celebrity that poisons the society toward us. 

I would be quite upset if he was sitting next to me. I think many people would have the same opinion.

Cindy

Quote from: Cindy James on June 24, 2011, 02:48:33 AM
I would be quite upset if he was sitting next to me.

I honestly don't know what I'd think about someone like that sitting next to me.  I've never sat next to someone with such unusual attire.  I don't think my brain has a plan of action for such an event.

I consider myself pretty open minded(?) but if I worked there and saw someone like that then I would not allow him on the plane, not because of what he's wearing but because wearing just underwear (regardless of the gender of that underwear) is poor public conduct.

I think I would have to agree that it is not acceptable for all the reasons listed by the previous posters above.

Plus, I would be asking to be moved to a different seat because I don't want to sit next to a "total  f***wit!"  I wouldn't want to sit next to someone with his pants around his knees either. We don't need skid marks showing!!

I am beginning to think that apart from the wonderful people here at Susan's Place, Americans despite being largely an admirable people in many ways, are just basically all mad. :'(

Karen.

And what if he had worn very dark or black makeup?  This has to be a "come on".  I can not see a woman being allowed to fly like that.  Let alone a man.

Just another slap in out collective face.

Quote from: Cindy James on June 24, 2011, 02:48:33 AM
I would be quite upset if he was sitting next to me. I think many people would have the same opinion.

Cindy

If he sat next to me, I'd be more concerned that such an obvious extravert would make it really difficult to get any peace and quiet.

I would be quite upset if he was sitting next to me.

Yeah, cause he's old and a guy?  Bet if the person was 18 and female the number of people who would have 'trouble' would drop.


Oh yeah, you old people need to avoid raves (and Burning Man) at ALL COSTS.

I thought this was a protest about TSA crap and not a gender deal. 

Quote from: tekla on June 24, 2011, 08:58:35 AM
I thought this was a protest about TSA crap and not a gender deal.

While that may be, he is precisely the person that the fans of the 'umbrella' bring to the party...

lols *covers mouth*.

Distasteful, sure, so are fat girls in stretch pants, yet they let them board.  It was from Florida to Phoenix, it's not like it was happening in the real world or anything.

Stretch pants are not 'underwear'. Perhaps if he was wearing male underwear he might of been considered mentally unstable but being female underwear he's just considered a perverted weirdo?

Everyone in Florida is basically considered mentally unstable until proven otherwise.  It's far and away the masterpiece of diversity, lifestyle and far too much time in the sun.  The fact that this story - or any story really - happens in Florida is not only a sign of a great lutz about to happen, it also means 'and pretty much nowhere else' too. Compared to what happens in other areas and subcultures in the Sunshine State what he's doing is actually mild.

Quote from: tekla on June 24, 2011, 08:28:29 AM
I would be quite upset if he was sitting next to me.

Yeah, cause he's old and a guy?  Bet if the person was 18 and female the number of people who would have 'trouble' would drop.


Oh yeah, you old people need to avoid raves (and Burning Man) at ALL COSTS.

I would be equally upset with a cute blonde bimbo sitting next to me dressed like that. How would I drink my Milo?

How would I drink my Milo?

very carefully.  You get used it eventually is the surprising part.  I spend years working these very large parties and events in the local fetish community, and now I do these raves where very young girls walk around all night in some sort of designer lingerie and nothing else and it doesn't even phase me anymore.  Well not constantly.

This guy is not trans of any flavor. His mode of dress has nothing to do with gender identity and every thing to do with shock value and his own sexual thrills. As such his public behavior sould not be protected. This isn't a cross dresser out on the town, this is a pervert.

I can't imagine wearing so few clothes to travel, regardless of gender. I always freeze on airplanes!!!  :D

Z

I'm with Spacial on this one:
I'd be more concerned that such an obvious extravert would make it really difficult to get any peace and quiet.

Yeah this person would never shut up.

Quote from: cynthialee on June 24, 2011, 01:18:47 PM
This guy is not trans of any flavor. His mode of dress has nothing to do with gender identity and every thing to do with shock value and his own sexual thrills. As such his public behavior sould not be protected. This isn't a cross dresser out on the town, this is a pervert.

EXACTLY! Cynthialee

Because of this PERVET we all take one step back!

Think about it, what reason is he giving for dressing like this in public other then getting his rocks off.

AGH! I can't say anthing else.

Shelly

Yes he reflects poorly on us and ya know what?

There isn't a single blessed thing we can do about it.

My problem with this whole thing is not the fact that he's dressed like a woman, but that he's wearing underwear and little else.  End of story.

QuoteEveryone in Florida is basically considered mentally unstable until proven otherwise.

More or less true, but varies a lot by the area. ;)  But the same can be said about California after having been there.  I've never seen naked men walking down the street before I went to Castro district. :P  Thankfully they were in good shape.

QuoteNo kidding. Hopefully the cabin crew gave him some blankets.

And I hope they sterilized them thoroughly afterwards!!

Quote from: cynthialee on June 25, 2011, 08:58:16 AM
Yes he reflects poorly on us and ya know what?

There isn't a single blessed thing we can do about it.

*/me steps on soapbox*

What are you (Not you, personally, cynthialee. I mean in general) talking about? Of course there is!

1. Figure out everyone who knows, cares about, or loves you. Even a little bit.
2. Do not rest until every single one of them knows that they know, that they care about, that they even love--a trans person.

When all they see are random pictures and names, the whole thing is "not my concern", but when you become the face of ->-bleeped-<- in their eyes, everything changes. Now, they have reason to stop being ignorant. Now, they have reason to care about your rights and dignity. Now, they have reason to stand up to those who would hurt you. I won't pretend that what I said isn't much easier said than done. I'm won't pretend that there aren't really good reasons for keeping quiet. But honestly, I really don't see any other way.

But the same can be said about California after having been there.  I've never seen naked men walking down the street before I went to Castro district

Florida exists to make California and Texas look good.  And that's party time in the Castro, in Berkeley they had a guy who walked around Berkeley every day like that.  They even called him Naked Guy.  He was crazy.  But for a while it was legal as he fought arrests saying there was nothing titillating about what he was doing and it had no sexual component.  True that, pretty much a sex killer it was.

Of course New York has it's singing cowboy in the tightly whities.

Because of this PERVET we all take one step back!
No we don't.  I don't see any retrograde motion, no backlash, no one screaming "Now things have gone too far" (largely I'm guessing that is because the plane was full of people from Florida and Arizona and you just have to try harder with them) and some huge public outcry supporting them.  Tell you what, I've had to fly with more than a few wookies over the years and I'd much rather have the clean guy in victoria's secret next to me than the white guy with dreads and the Phish shirt.

This guy is not a sexual threat to anyone, yeesh, you can see it coming a mile away.

this PERVET... And what's wrong with perverts?  Everyone is a pervert I think.  I just think it's too bad they can't express it more openly.  OK, this is kinda too open, but ....  Your neighbor who works at the bank likes to be spanked, the school principal likes water sports once in a while.  The big stud like to be a sissy, and little skinny girls are dominatrixs.  You wouldn't know it to look at them, but that nice couple down the street didn't put a rec room in the basement, they built a dungeon.  Lot's of wives have got a vibrator in the nightstand rigged to plug into the washing machine so they can put 220 on they money, honey, while thier husbands have at least a terabyte of midget porn on the hard drive.

Anything, and everything can be sexual.  Rule 34.  And somewhere, someone likes it.