Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I am currently saving up for my facial hair removal (I will wait for HRT to increase efficiency and lower the costs). Here are the basic characteristics of my beard:

-Average to low density on the face. Most hairs, apart from the sideburns and sides of the chin, are pale.
-High density on the neck. Almost all hairs are dark brown. My neck hair extends very low and, in the centre, joins my chest hair.

I know this information is not the most complete, but I would like your advice regarding what to do and how much to save.

First, should I go with laser on the darker areas then electrolysis everywhere, or should I just go with electrolysis everywhere, cost-wise?

Second, how many hours a week (in average) will I spend on this?

Third, how many hours total do you reckon I will require? (I know it's hard to say, but please try.)

Fourth, how long should the whole process last?

Fifth, how much, in a percentage, should I expect HRT to reduce my body hair? Should I start saving for hair removal there too? (I am pretty hairy.)

And finally, what should be the final cost, considering I start right after I start HRT?

I would recommend laser for the larger areas that have dark hair, you'll see quicker results and save money. I currently pay $175 per treatment, $150 with my referral discounts. That is for my full face. It takes about 5-15 minutes for the full treatment on my face, the reason it can take as long as 15 minutes is because I'm a wuss, it hurts and I need breaks. I go in every 6 weeks for my laser treatments.

As for the body hair, I think everybody is different. My body hair has reduced in the range of 70-80%, what is left is clear or white. I have a friend who is older (50 years old), she says she's noticed no reduction whatsoever of her body hair, we've been on HRT for about the same length of time.

I can't speak much about the electrolysis since I've have no experience with it.

So one laser treatment covers the whole face ? And how many treatments do you reckon you will need before you are done with your face ?

They recommend on average of 6-9 treatments of the full face to kill off all of the hair. But my neck/beard is clearing out faster than my upper lip and goatee area. After maybe 1 more treatment (5th treatment), I may stop working on my neck / beard.

If you're curious about the results, I made a cool thread about it here (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,97634.msg716404.html#msg716404). The hair's all fall out after about 2-3 weeks.

The single picture for the first treatment was before any of my facial hair fell out. You can see a clear difference between the first and second treatments. Less between the 2nd and 3rd, but the 3rd treatment was another big one that did a lot of damage to my hair.

1. I would go with laser first and do electrolysis on stragglers.  This can be MUCH more cost-efficient.  Good package deals can be easy to find depending on where you live.  I paid $650 for a package of six treatments (full face and neck), and now I pay $50 per session indefinitely because I previously bought a package.

2. Laser will consume about 15 minutes of your time every four weeks, and that 15 minutes clears all dark hairs from the entire face and neck.  But just like electrolysis, it will take a few growth cycles to eliminate the hair, hence the four week between-session wait.

3. It's seriously variable.  Some talk about not needing to shave after 6 treatments, but I still have a ridiculous amount of hair left after 11 treatments.  My technician says she's got me on a higher setting than almost anyone she's worked on, and she's been in the biz for quite some time.  She even does double treatments on my lip for no extra charge and I still have about 50% of the hairs left.  For the record, I didn't start out hairy at all.  Didn't even have sideburns.  I've also heard it's not unusual to go about 20 sessions before lasting results are achieved.  I really don't know what to believe.

4. See #3

5. I've seen absolutely no reduction in thickness or distribution of body hair after six months of HRT, and my endo said not to expect any because reports of hair reduction are overblown... I'm not sure I believe that given how many people talk about it.  All I know is that I've had none, and the only body hair I have is on my lower arms, hands, lower legs, and feet.  HRT has made no dent in this.

6. This is too widely variable based on how your hairs react, what the prices are in your area, etc.


I will say this much though: hair removal pre-HRT was MUCH easier than after.  Laser causes your hairs to shrivel up into little dark clumps below the skin, and where those used to grow out in two or three days pre-HRT, they now take about 10 to 11.  I have yet to find any makeup that even comes close to covering these, but that might also be because I have really dark hair and really pale skin (it's a strange combo).  So for every 10 to 11 days, every four weeks, I want to hide from view.

I wonder why the psychiatrist said it was really stupid to start hair removal before HRT... Perhaps even though it grows back faster, it takes more sessions to disappear?

(That might explain your 20+ sessions, perhaps?)

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 03:50:38 PM
I wonder why the psychiatrist said it was really stupid to start hair removal before HRT... Perhaps even though it grows back faster, it takes more sessions to disappear?

(That might explain your 20+ sessions, perhaps?)

Well, testosterone is what causes the hair to grow on the face. If you are taking HRT, and effectively neutralizing your testosterone the hairs will end up being less resilient. This is the theory that my laser people pitched to me. So in theory HRT will supplement the laser, decreasing the likelihood that the hairs will grow back.

My approach would be to start laser on the face ASAP. I suppose if you were going to spend six months on HRT before going fulltime you could do it then, but you don't want facial hair to hold up going full time if it takes longer.

Everything depends on the speed at which I can get HRT, but I do plan on spending a few months on HRT before going full-time. (I plan going full-time next August and
will probably need to move out to do so).

Ugh, I wish everyone would tell me the same thing.

I agree with Rabbit.

Quote from: Sarah7 on June 26, 2011, 12:15:36 AM
Both gender therapists I've seen said it was better to start laser as soon as possible, as the changes from HRT can become noticeable quickly, and you'll rarely be done with hair removal by the time you want to come out.

This is very true and something to take into account. If you plan on going full time right away, then starting laser as soon as possible isn't a bad idea. But if you feel like you want to let HRT work some before you go full time, then it may not hurt to wait on laser until you start HRT.

It really comes down to preference. If you plan to start HRT in the very near future, I don't think there will be much of a problem starting laser right away. But if you think it may be several months off, it may not hurt to wait.

Hmm, I guess I will wait until I get my endo reference, then. The day I get this will probably be ~2 months apart from my appointment (and, hopefully, prescription),
so I guess this will be a good time to start.

Now how much should I save? Will 1000$ suffice?

Don't overlook that it is not T as such that makes girly bum-fluff (velum-hair) grow into those nasty 4mm deep thick beard roots, it is the T conversion product of DHT (dihydrotestosterone) and also once those roots are established they have a re-growth of 6 times maybe more. Plus those roots are now producing there own DHT independent of your hormone levels even if you run on close to zero T like I do since over a year.

I first had laser to get rid of what I could (dark hair) and now am well into 100 hours plus for electrolysis alone, AND THE STUFF KEEPS GROWING! Like weeds. So BE prepared for the need of *plenty* of patience and $$$.

One reason to take SPIRO (T-blocker) and Finasteride (DHT-blocker) is helping to reduce re-growth and of course save on E.
If I have not shaved for about 3 weeks without plucking and or electrolysis for only one week I still begin to look like Father Xmas' aunty.
I think 350 hrs for electrolysis is actually not too unusual.
It is FDA approved as "permanent" hair removal, never mind some 6x plus re-growth and what not!
Laser is NOT approved as permanent by FDA and my arm-pits confirm their point - still in need of regular waxing. Much finer hair now YES! But still need waxing every 6 - 8 weeks.
Patience and money honey!
Let us know how it goes - always good to have yet another experience.
Axelle

...Omfg? *Headbang* So much money? And here I've saved about 1000$ with months of savings... And I was here, thinking I could actually afford a tracheal save in
a year or two, on top of all that.

*Cold, dry wind of despair.*

ideal image is fda approved, but it was 4000 dollars. It is gaurenteed for life, or until they go out of buisness. They are currently expanding so, we will see.
My skin and hair are perfect for their laser though.

I tried American Laser/  They sold me a package deal and said it would take about 8 appts over two years.  They said my grey hairs would be a problem and might require a few more appts.  They didn't tell me that my grey hairs were too white for their laser.   I did get my shest hair lasered. by someone else.  No package deals  $300 for 3 appts took care of what little there was.  No overcharging from them.  When I get ready for my arms and legs I will call them. 

Mine was Laser

990 dollars for nine sessions with each session happening once every 4 weeks.
Each session covered the entire face and neck

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 11:37:51 PM
Ugh, I wish everyone would tell me the same thing.

no one can tell you the same thing when it comes to hair removal. It is just like HRT. It affects everyone differently. Even electrolysis is different for everyone.

So far Ive seen girls spend as little as 700 dollars on hair removal and i seen someone spend over 12K on it.

Transition can be very expensive but again, costs is very different for everyone.

What may cost me 30K for SRS, hair removal, HRT etc may cost someone else over 110K (I know a girl who spent 110K...ive heard of girls spending more).

However, transguys who want top and bottom SRS alone is looking at 100K at least....thats not including other costs.

Sadly, the costs aren't the same for both genders or for each person

Texas is extremely far away, but thanks for trying.

electrolysis 3000 is awesome if you got the $$$

I was thinking about that route but after consultation, it was about 4500 a session for 3 sessions (13.5K). So i did other inexpensive methods.

However if you have the money for that, it is probably the fastest way of removing the hair!

FWIW there is a local place that I plan on going to that posts it's prices, and they want $960/1140 for the face, female/male, I would assume billing at the male rate and that is 6 sessions, but you get each addition session you need to clear that are @ $50 a session.

I don't see that as too expensive, though it only applies to one area (i.e. if you bought the legs package you only get $50 sessions on your legs after the 6th session, if you also wanted your back you would have to buy the back package), the facial hair is the thing I really care about getting rid of.

There is an American Laser which isn't very reputable (though some swear by them, some hate them I prefer not to take a chance) and a few others locally, but many are pretty inflexible like, you need more sessions you have to buy a whole extra package of sessions.

I failed to read all the answers so I might be repeating some of the information already there.

I started 3 months ago having to visit back every 4-5 weeks. My hair is med light to very light, also I have heard over and over that laser however fancy it sounds is not, I repeat Not a Permanent solution. The heat from the laser suppose to travel down the hair into the root and burn the cavity to destroy its center. Well 50% of time it fails to reach all the way to the bottom. Even though Electrolysis is a direct way of delivering heat to designated root, the root still will regrow for several times before it dies for good. So electrolysis is an ultimate to laser but it costs way more and hurts like hell diminishing in intensity along the way.

I have been told that treatment will last about 2 years with sessions every month, getting shorter in time it takes to work on regrowth area each time you go. With roughly $ 150 per session, and that is considered cheep it will amount to $3600 over two years.

This is as real of a scenario as I can decipher, hope it helps :)

Well, I'm not sure what it does more: help me of cause despair?

In any case, it does inform me. Thank you.

Has anyone tried the No No hair removal system??? I just purchased one & it seems to work?

Quote from: Francis Ann Burgett on June 28, 2011, 05:55:04 AM
Has anyone tried the No No hair removal system??? I just purchased one & it seems to work?

lotsa of people are saying it does not work. On Amazon.com it was rated one star out of 5 based on 100 customer reviews. That's not good.

Also, I googled No No Hair and I got a lotta results of people complaining it's a scam.

if you want an effective laser base hair removal system you can use at home, try Silk'n SensEpil. It even has been FDA approved to use at home with the same effects as professional laser.

Since it is 200 dollars more than that No No (which is a bic lighter with a blade), return your no no and invest 200 dollars more for a really good one.

Thank you so much.

You are right on this NO NO thing, it is just a bic burner, what a waste, I will return it.

Hope other sisters do not also waste their time/$ on this no no thing.

You might want to check out something like Groupon.  I see deals for laser and electrolysis pop up fairly often.

I personally know a girl that waited six months into HRT, had five laser sessions (spending $1k) and has been clear for 6 years. I am sooooo getting her information.

I'm with Inna and what she has to say is all correct in my 1 year plus hair-removal experience.
I have an almost white beard and accumulated MANY years of T (converted into DHT) to be sure.
Had some 6 laser sessions every 2 weeks plus last year.
Then started with electrolysis for all the white stuff. This was before Xmas last year AND I WENT 5 DAYS A WEEK! since in SA it is A LOT cheaper then the $$$ I've seen quoted.
Re-growths in my experience is LOTS and LOTS more then 3 times. I'd say more like 7 times!
To be sure I do not shave anymore since at least 3 month, bless it, but I had no plucking and electrolysis done during my 7 day hospital stint and looked like, I said it before, Father-Xmas' aunty. HORRIBAL.
Now my electrolysist wants a letter from my brain-surgeon that it is save to go on.
Meanwhile I'm plucking for at least 1 hr per day!
The beard hair are thinner and much less painful to pluck for sure, but present almost in full compliment! Most, to all is re-growth and this after having had close the 100 hr electrolysis!
Go figure...
Axelle

The new Tria Laser product seems professional level & identical to laser treatments at a salon.

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 11:37:51 PM
Ugh, I wish everyone would tell me the same thing.

YMMV

I had over 100hrs electrolysis and am far from done, and 6 laser session before that.

Take a calculator and your known cost --- voila, you have some good intermeditate cost.

Easy piecy...

BTW, I do not shave anymore since months, but no treatment for 1 week, and it still starts to look problematic. I also use epilator now 2x / week.

Axelle

Here's what I'm paying for electro. It took about an hour to an hour and quarter to do my upper lip and the bit just underneath the lower lip (not the chin). The first 15 minutes of an appointment cost me $43, and every minute after that is $1. I'm currently planning on going regularly for two hour appointments. So that's $150~ an appointment, which should hopefully get most of what facial hair I have, one of my luckier attributes. I'm assuming it will take 4-6 clearings to get everything on the same growth cycle. At that point it's probably only another 5-7 clearings to have almost now repeat growth. I'm figuring $2000 - $3000 is reasonable for electro for someone with not much facial coverage to begin with.

I pay about $150 per session for my face and neck. After my first session I was pretty much clear on my neck and sides of my face, and it's been that way with routine follow-ups. I haven't really had lasting clearness in my goatee area, but I've only been on a higher setting for the laser since my 3rd treatment and that was the first time I had any shedding in my goatee area. That third session was also when I finally realized what people meant about laser hurting. But it's a good hurt ;). Apparently I can go back for free touch-ups after 3 weeks if there are stubborn areas (which I finally plan to take advantage of). After 6 sessions I will get a discount on any follow-ups. I just had my 4th session a week ago, so I'm still waiting to see how much shedding I get and how long it lasts. The company I go to is called Smooth Solutions.

I have light skin with blond, red, and dark hairs, which all makes a difference in how effective laser will be. They are using the Alexandrite laser, which only works for fair skin, but apparently it can kill more colors of hair than some of the other lasers.

Where you live is going to make a big difference in price, I think.

QuoteYou might want to check out something like Groupon.  I see deals for laser and electrolysis pop up fairly often.

Also this.

I don't want to make you feel bad - it's why I didn't initially mention prices/session.
I pay US$12.00 per 1hr electro session!

I had over 100 sessions already, as I'd mentioned. Some girls are into 350hrs and more, so it is most variable depending on density and regrowth.

But RELAX, we earn MUCH less in SA then you folks - and with an older girl's more established growth there is LOTS more time required to remove this horrid stuff.

Ta, ta,
Axelle

I've not heard of the Silk'n SensEpil before; I may have to give it a try.

I'm 42 and I started transition at 37. I had heavy, heavy facial hair with high density all over the front of my face.

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 10:21:42 AMI know this information is not the most complete, but I would like your advice regarding what to do and how much to save.

--> I have gotten a total of 300 hours of electrolysis at $80 an hour (Los Angeles) from someone very experienced with trans hair removal from the face. So that's $24,000 which is way on the high side. She uses thermolysis/flash blend and I don't have electro scarring. I got three sessions of laser. I bought 6 sessions for $1800 total and they said they'd let me go back for touch ups if needed. In the second session I received 2nd degree (I think) burns on my face. It left a small area of scarring but only I seem to notice it, I dunno. I did that in 6/07 - 9/07. I started electrolysis in 9/07, the same month I started HRT and exactly 10 months before I got FFS/name change and went full time. I had 220 hours going into FFS and was going to electrolysis like once every three weeks for maybe two hours or so.

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 10:21:42 AMFirst, should I go with laser on the darker areas then electrolysis everywhere, or should I just go with electrolysis everywhere, cost-wise?

--> See above

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 10:21:42 AMSecond, how many hours a week (in average) will I spend on this?

--> I did four hours per week for the first two months (clearance at 52 hours where it was growing back super thin), then two hours a week for the next year or so.

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 10:21:42 AMThird, how many hours total do you reckon I will require? (I know it's hard to say, but please try.)

--> It REALLY depends on your hair growth, method of removal (you can get less hours of electro and have level turned up super high and not get regrowth but maybe risk scarring), and some other things like maybe how you respond to HRT. I wouldn't count on HRT having much of an effect on your facial hair. If you get something out of HRT, you'll be happy, but don't count on it! Set your expectations low and be surprised by whatever you get. Like I said, I've had 300 hours of electro and go back like maybe for an hour every 5-6 months to get some strays. Remember with laser, you need a good 8-10 weeks BETWEEN sessions and at LEAST  6- 8 sessions. That will take you out to almost two years. You can't rush hair removal. It grows back months and months later and needs to get zapped again a few times sometimes.

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 10:21:42 AMFourth, how long should the whole process last?

--> Laser sessions were 15-20 minutes for me and electro I'd say like 2 years with two - four hours a session.

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 10:21:42 AMFifth, how much, in a percentage, should I expect HRT to reduce my body hair? Should I start saving for hair removal there too? (I am pretty hairy.)

--> I dunno, HRT, after two years, did significantly change my body hair. I've never had hair removal methods on my body. I epilate my arms and legs and have for years. What grows back when I let it is super light and not dense at all. Maybe pick up an epilator.

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 10:21:42 AMAnd finally, what should be the final cost, considering I start right after I start HRT?

-> This varies, I mean I'd figure laser + electro depending on how much you are paying, maybe like $2,000 for laser and $50 x 120 hours (?) $7,000 for electro = $9,000? TOTAL guess there! Just giving you one person's thoughts :)

Me before any hair removal

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi184.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx153%2Fmeghanandrews%2FPhoto_053006_001.jpg&hash=99d2bd459056679823f7770e96669f9ebaeea6d0)

The link just below this sentence is a fairly graphic photo of my facial burns from my second laser session :(

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x153/meghanandrews/P1000294-1.jpg?t=1312040975 (http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x153/meghanandrews/P1000294-1.jpg?t=1312040975)

I don't think you can see too clearly here, but this is a recent pic but it's on my cam so the quality and zoom aren't there, but no more facial hair, yeah!

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi184.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx153%2Fmeghanandrews%2Fsnapshot.png&hash=233eeac59125bc0dae7b9c973638461eccace618)

Quote from: A on June 25, 2011, 10:21:42 AM
I am currently saving up for my facial hair removal (I will wait for HRT to increase efficiency and lower the costs). Here are the basic characteristics of my beard:

-Average to low density on the face. Most hairs, apart from the sideburns and sides of the chin, are pale.
-High density on the neck. Almost all hairs are dark brown. My neck hair extends very low and, in the centre, joins my chest hair.

I know this information is not the most complete, but I would like your advice regarding what to do and how much to save.

First, should I go with laser on the darker areas then electrolysis everywhere, or should I just go with electrolysis everywhere, cost-wise?

Second, how many hours a week (in average) will I spend on this?

Third, how many hours total do you reckon I will require? (I know it's hard to say, but please try.)

Fourth, how long should the whole process last?

Fifth, how much, in a percentage, should I expect HRT to reduce my body hair? Should I start saving for hair removal there too? (I am pretty hairy.)

And finally, what should be the final cost, considering I start right after I start HRT?

One to four have had really good answers so far, but five is really individual. I wouldn't start saving for hair removal there, though, as if your savings are limited, you probably have more important things to save for. If you can save for it, that would be good. If HRT doesn't do anything with the hairs, then your savings can go to that trachea shave. For me, HRT did very little below the neck. My facial hair growth slowed down by a lot - it's four times slower now - and likewise, that's where my fat changed. My leg hair got really fine, and is definitely not dense or anything at all, but then there's the hair on my chest, tummy, shoulders, upper arms, back, and pretty much everywhere else that doesn't go away (yet?). It's not dark or course, so I can't laser it. But it's everywhere, and it looks like I would either have to get full-body electrolysis, or just go with waxing.

If you want to save for body hair removal, then go for it, but unless your hair is really dark and course, a permanent solution may be impractical.

I'm sorry that nothing can be certain.

Thank you for trying to help. Now I guess I'll start praying a little bit for hair removal being magically covered by the government's insurance. T_T

Back into reality now, I guess I'm pretty much in deep trouble... I currently have about 1500$ put away from a looooot of privation and exceptional work income this summer, but unless I get very lucky with the government's studies help bonus for people with functional problems [ADHD] or somehow find a great medication, I don't expect any income significantly higher than my spendings anytime soon. Unless I'm lucky, I expect to have a little less than 2000$ total at the beginning of next summer. I'd love to work, but my ADHD (and/or other unidentified problem) is currently not being affected by medication much, so I can barely study OR work (and I'm so bad at job searching, too), let alone do both at the same time, whilst making efforts to retain an acceptable life hygiene (chores, paying bills, getting to bed, getting up, etc.)

And I can't go full-time without facial hair removal, since an electric razor is not enough to shave well, and my skin is so sensitive I can't do anything with my face at all and it hurts like hell for almost a week following a wet shave.

And as you all seem to say even if I do save what I need for laser, I will still need a fortune's worth of electrolysis...

...Help? There's got to be a way...

Quote from: A on July 30, 2011, 12:58:26 PM
Thank you for trying to help. Now I guess I'll start praying a little bit for hair removal being magically covered by the government's insurance. T_T

Back into reality now, I guess I'm pretty much in deep trouble... I currently have about 1500$ put away from a looooot of privation and exceptional work income this summer, but unless I get very lucky with the government's studies help bonus for people with functional problems [ADHD] or somehow find a great medication, I don't expect any income significantly higher than my spendings anytime soon. Unless I'm lucky, I expect to have a little less than 2000$ total at the beginning of next summer. I'd love to work, but my ADHD (and/or other unidentified problem) is currently not being affected by medication much, so I can barely study OR work (and I'm so bad at job searching, too), let alone do both at the same time, whilst making efforts to retain an acceptable life hygiene (chores, paying bills, getting to bed, getting up, etc.)

And I can't go full-time without facial hair removal, since an electric razor is not enough to shave well, and my skin is so sensitive I can't do anything with my face at all and it hurts like hell for almost a week following a wet shave.

And as you all seem to say even if I do save what I need for laser, I will still need a fortune's worth of electrolysis...

...Help? There's got to be a way...

did you know its scientifically proven the right diet helps calm ADHD . I am not lying this medical show in south africa that investigates corrupt doctors and one story talked about these ADHD sufferers who just changed their diet and it worked i suggest Google it and try it out  :)

Electrolysis, when done properly, is permanent.  Laser isn't.  That's why there's a finite time on the guarantee.

Instead of saving up the money, you could do electro sessions as you can afford it.  I was paying $80/hr and doing 1-2 hours per week.  Long slow process but it wasn't too hard on the bank account.  Transition (from the time you begin seriously considering it until time you've fully transitioned) can take years.  Hair removal and growth can take years too.  So eliminate the hair you don't want and grow the hair you do.  The sooner, the better.  And if you decide to postpone your transition or just don't do it, it's no big deal.  You'll just be a less hairy guy, and you can cut your hair to whatever length you want.

Meghan..... YOUR EYEBROWS ARE PERFECT!!!! *jealous*

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 30, 2011, 03:59:16 PM
Electrolysis, when done properly, is permanent.  Laser isn't.  That's why there's a finite time on the guarantee.

Instead of saving up the money, you could do electro sessions as you can afford it.  I was paying $80/hr and doing 1-2 hours per week.  Long slow process but it wasn't too hard on the bank account.  Transition (from the time you begin seriously considering it until time you've fully transitioned) can take years.  Hair removal and growth can take years too.  So eliminate the hair you don't want and grow the hair you do.  The sooner, the better.  And if you decide to postpone your transition or just don't do it, it's no big deal.  You'll just be a less hairy guy, and you can cut your hair to whatever length you want.

I've been pretty much decided for more than a year now, so I doubt I would go back. No, actually, I don't doubt I won't. My hair growth is quite underway too.

Laser, uhm... I thought laser was permanent for a part of the treated hairs at least..?

When combined with HRT, the results of laser can be quite significant. Most people would recommend laser to clear out the overall mass, the electrolysis to clear out the stragglers. This can be very cost effective.

Okay, okay, I guess I'm going to stick with laser for a start. If I'm lucky, the remaining hairs should be easy to hide.

As for laser being permanent or not, I suggest reading this thread https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,83615.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,83615.0.html)

rejennyrated makes a good case for laser being considered permanent

Thanks for the link!