Susan's Place Transgender Resources

It's not rare to see a television show get details of transsexualism very wrong. Sex and the City did it. Daytime television regularly does it. But the South Park transsexual episode that was on today was hands down the worst representation of our issues I have ever seen.

It's one thing to be ignorant. It's another to be intolerant. But to be actually hostile, dismissive and pejorative about a well established medical condition is just very wrong to me.

There is a lot about transition that can be laughed at - even with an edge. But to actively dismissive of the legitimacy of this just feeds a popular and ignorant sterotype. Shows like this are not without consequence to people's lives.

Brilala

Is this theh one where the kid's dad wanted to be a dolphin, so he had surgery to become one?  And the little kid was made into an NBA basketball player that couldn't play because his knees wouldn't work?

Those guys attack everyone.  I figure if they are attacking us, they've hit the bottom of the barrel and looking for new material.  Most of their material is disgusting at best.  Fortunately, right wing conservatives don't look to South Park for inspiration, they've been fried up and served over and over on the series.

My opinion remains "consider the source".

Cindi

When that particular South Park first aired, I came pretty close to tears...I had yet to tell my family that I was ts, and my brother is a big South Park fan, which had me thinking "Oh, great, now this will be his image of transsexuals when I finally tell him?"  (Fortunately, it wasn't, although he hasn't exactly been supportive of me...we don't actually talk anymore.  Don't get me wrong, he is my brother, and of course I love him.  We are just far too different people to really get along.  Perhaps some day in the future we may start talking again, but for now, I'll go my way and he can go his.)

South Park?  Oh yes, I remember putting  South Park where it belonged, in a dumpster with all the garbage I have tossed during my life...

tinkerbell :icon_chick:

I am sorry but South Park is perhaps the best show on television. Matt Stone's and Trey Parker's commentary through the show is usually spot on especially when it comes to stupid fads (World of Warcraft and Guitar Hero) and politics. I actually find the episode when Mr. Garrison goes through gender reassignment to be pretty hilarious. Sometimes people just need to lighten up a bit and not take life so seriously.

I second that kristin.  South Park offends everyone they poke fun at about every issue you can think of.  I think you have to take it with a grain of salt.

Audrey

South Park is hit and miss.  I figure that bumheads who get their information from it can't be educated for real anyway.   

Smart people can watch it and laugh or curse.  Dopes can watch it and think they are smarter for having done so.

    I'm offended by it, but I don't care they did it.  I'm beginning to think the writers aren't really too smart.  Sometimes clever, but not very smart.

South Park can be hilarious. I remember thinking "this is really funny, I wonder how I will feel when they attack me in the show?" It didn't matter, they are equal opportunity humorists. I haven't watched South Park in years and years, but you just have to know where that kind of thing fits into your life.

When I first saw the episode, I felt a bit offended. Then I remembered, why should I be upset with this episode when I have laughed with so many in the past at the expense of others in different episodes? Of course we know Mr(s). Garrison is not the greatest representation of the TS community so why bother with it? They give EVERYONE a hassle about everything in this world, and other worlds for that matter....just their style....it was due to happen eventually....I'm over it, and still get a kick out of the show...Beside I need a sense of humor to get through this crazy world.

Christine

It is my opinion that south park sucks. I watched it at one time but it got old once the quality of the show went down. As far as the episode with Garrison's sex change goes I saw it as a very bland episode regardless of the topic. I certainly wasn't offended by it because come on, its a stupid TV show, man. Its not like its a documentary or something.  Anyone who would watch that show to be "educated"  ::) on any subject is obviously a fool.

Though perhaps lacking the awesomeness of the episode where Cartman fakes Tourette syndrome, or the one about San Francisco and its layer of Smug - it wasn't bad.  If you don't like it, turn it off, watch something else or just go outside and play.  Its a cartoon, one that pretty much makes fun of everyone.  Isn't there enough going on in reality that a cartoon is that important?

If they can't make me interested within 5 minutes or less, it's turned off.

South Park ended for me waaaaay back when Mr. Stinky got introduced as a major character.

I was always more of a Simpsons gal anyway.

There have been two episodes regarding Mrs Garrison directly, To be honest they take light of everyone in life including themselves, you may find it offensive but it was meant that way...

Also Mrs Garrison is a main charecter which to me is rather flattering.. makes me think about the writers and what goes through there head.

I like South Park when I watch it.  It's generally one of the better written shows on television.  Really good satire.  And I agree, with a show like that you can't all of a sudden get upset when your group gets attacked.  They go after everybody.  That's how comedy works.  Particularly satire.

I miss you Bri  :(

tink :icon_chick:

I miss her too Tink.....

... and for that matter.....

Cindi

Quote from: lady amarant on February 12, 2008, 04:03:54 PM
South Park ended for me waaaaay back when Mr. Stinky got introduced as a major character.

I was always more of a Simpsons gal anyway.

don't get me started on the simpsons. According to me the simpsons died about 8 seasons ago when Conan O'Brien quit as a writer. Ever since then the simpsons have never been the same.

Quote from: tekla on February 12, 2008, 02:38:51 PM
Though perhaps lacking the awesomeness of the episode where Cartman fakes Tourette syndrome, or the one about San Francisco and its layer of Smug - it wasn't bad.  If you don't like it, turn it off, watch something else or just go outside and play.  Its a cartoon, one that pretty much makes fun of everyone.  Isn't there enough going on in reality that a cartoon is that important?

I loved the San Francisco Smug episode!  There was a bit of truth in it or it wouldn't have worked.  I haven't seen the transsexual episode but I really want to now.  Ya gotta be able to laugh at yourself once in awhile.  The writers step on everyone's toes so why would our nicely painted ones be any different?

The Fab Five from Queer Eye for the Straight Guy were alien Crab People..... turned all men into metro-sexuals

The show was a hoot.   Not to be taken seriously, but as a TG it was hilarious.  All the men were at first complimented for taking tie to look better.... but eventually they were spending more time in front of the mirror than their wives.

ROFLMAO!!!

Anyway not to be taken seriously, just what happens when you push a stereotype to the extreme.   I particularly enjoyed the World of Warcraft episode.

Daisy

I'm an open minded person I love South Park and I remember that episode. I thought it was funny I didn't take it personal but the episodes I sometimes take personal are the ones where they make fun of or mock christianity

They've certainly learned how to push everyone's buttons.

C

I still miss you, Bri  :icon_sadblinky:

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Cindi Jones on May 24, 2008, 01:46:54 AM
They've certainly learned how to push everyone's buttons.

C

I agree.  I've seen only 4 episodes of Southpark, my favourite was the World of Warcraft one.  That was not offensive in any way and WOW players will identify with their addiction to the game and have a laugh. 

I saw the Mrs Garrison has a new vagina episode just a few weeks ago, it was silly and offensive, but the episode about Tourette's syndrome was as well.  It offends everyone on every level, I just hope people don't watch it and go yeah that's right, Mr so and so wants to be a dolphin, lets give him gills and a fin etc.  you get the picture.  I think it is suppose to be making fun of the people who actually think that way, that everything is so black and white, but sometimes the message isn't really that clear, I don't understand what they are trying to say.  Pure entertainment, I don't think so.

Its very far from pure entertainment.  About the only 'pure' entertainment I have ever been a part of is the most basic circus stuff.  And, even then, when you raise all that to the level of either Ringling Brothers or Cirque du Soleil, you are going to get a some sort of message as a part of the overall script. 

Its comedy, and since the Greeks (which is as far back as we can trace any of this) comedy was always a way to get that things that might otherwise be hard to approach.  It's the jester who can make fun of the king, and in so doing, all are able to join in.  In 411 BCE Greece, Aristophanes could not have attacked the institution of the army directly, so he did it in in a roundabout way in Lysistrata.

Matt and Trey, following in the footsteps of Matt Groening, Jay Ward (who's Rocky and Bullwinkle is still a good sent up on the cold war) and the big man himself, William M. Gaines, who's Mad taught a few generations how to do it, are using satire and irony as a way of examining Society writ large.  They have got much better at it over time.  The Simpsons started out good, faded for a while, and then came back strong again, but Matt&Trey have come to it far more gradually, but in some ways, much better.  Because the kids can't really understand the adults try - and fail, to explain in every episode.  And, like The Emporor's New Clothes, its the kids who get to say the one thing everyone it thinking.  So, for the Tourette's one can be summed up with the kid who watches Cartman swear at the teacher who then praises him and says "He said XXXX, that's cool" and the other overriding though is found in in Kyle's comment that "isn't anyone responsible for anything anymore besides me?" 

Though the message of "if you can say anything you want, you will sooner or later say something you regret" is pretty funny too.

the ones where they make fun of or mock christianity  They do, but they have gone after the Mormon's too, and no religion seems to take it as much as Scientology does. 

I know South Park and other shows along with it's kind of humor (like Family Guy) may seem like they're not even funny because they make fun of things that are sensitive to some people but I think the show is more for the open-minded. I mean, they dwell on subjects that shouldn't be made fun of but I think they just mean to make it funny just for humor I dn't think they're personally attacking anybody of a certain group or anything. Maybe I don't see the picture, but I can find humor i na lot of things.

I think that the Mormon episode was so funny because from a doctrinal and historical viewpoint, their presentation was right on the mark.  It varied very little from the pamphlets and lessons their missionaries distribute. 

I enjoy most of the SP episodes for the very reasons Tekla outlined.  The "potty" episodes, I pass on.

The TS episode was worth watching not because they were right, but because it portrays how many people (including Matt anf Trey) view our medical status.  They just don't get it and probably never will.

C

Ech... South Park... If you get past the shock value, what's funny? The original "Sprit of Christmas" clip was hilarious, but by the end of the first season they descended to bathroom humor and bashing every group that appeared on the pop-culture radar through the most obvious stereotypes possible. They might be "saying what everyone is thinking," but they do it so badly. Would it kill them to say something original, just once in a while? I wish that show would just die so I wouldn't have to hear references to it anymore.

Family Guy -- now that's a whole different story!

I still have not met a person who doesn't enjoy Family Guy. No matter what that show talks about I'm always rolling on the floor laughing (almost literally sometimes)  that show is to hilarious for me.

That reminds me of the time I was trapped in a phone booth with Dick Cheney.

I wasn't really offended, myself. I laughed. Everything about South Park is well, how stupid people are. I think they were not just poking fun at transfolk, but also the dumb people who can't understand transfolk. I'd say South Park is far more aggressive towards gays, but those episodes made me laugh too.

I think bashing on South Park is over done. I like it when they make these 8 year old kids do stupid/crazy things, like when Eric gave Kyle AIDS. It was rude and offensive, but for some reason, hilarious to think of cartoon kids doing that. Also the episode where Eric killed this one kid's parents and fed it to him in chili. Really offensive stuff. But for some reason, funny to me. I guess I have a pretty rude sense of humor sometimes. And because it isn't real, I feel like it's okay to laugh.

Quote from: Rebis on May 29, 2008, 08:03:27 PM
That reminds me of the time I was trapped in a phone booth with Dick Cheney.

That's ... hot.  :embarrassed:

Quote from: Elwood on May 29, 2008, 09:07:43 PMEverything about South Park is well, how stupid people are.

Dingdingdingding!!!

(That's why I don't like it; it's not because it's offensive.)

Quote from: Elwood on May 29, 2008, 09:07:43 PM
I wasn't really offended, myself. I laughed. Everything about South Park is well, how stupid people are. I think they were not just poking fun at transfolk, but also the dumb people who can't understand transfolk. I'd say South Park is far more aggressive towards gays, but those episodes made me laugh too.

I think bashing on South Park is over done. I like it when they make these 8 year old kids do stupid/crazy things, like when Eric gave Kyle AIDS. It was rude and offensive, but for some reason, hilarious to think of cartoon kids doing that. Also the episode where Eric killed this one kid's parents and fed it to him in chili. Really offensive stuff. But for some reason, funny to me. I guess I have a pretty rude sense of humor sometimes. And because it isn't real, I feel like it's okay to laugh.

Yah that's mostly what I wanted to say

What's funny about the AIDS episode, and it's very, very funny... is that Kyle gets the exactly the same punishment for punching Cartman as Cartman gets for giving Kyle AIDS.  It's a pretty funny comment - and all too true - on the inability of the current society to make any rational judgment between any and all acts.

Quote from: tekla on May 30, 2008, 08:10:41 PMWhat's funny about the AIDS episode, and it's very, very funny... is that Kyle gets the exactly the same punishment for punching Cartman as Cartman gets for giving Kyle AIDS.  It's a pretty funny comment - and all too true - on the inability of the current society to make any rational judgment between any and all acts.

It's true! It's happened to me. I got punished for wearing a tank top to school just as bad as the kid who smoked pot behind the main office!

So what if I wanna show off my arms! There's nothing sexual about SHOULDERS.

Maybe the teacher thought I was hot, then remembered that I'm a "girl."

a) I don't see where being a 'girl' would stop the teacher, I read the news.  (no matter what sex the teacher is)

b) of course wearing a tank top is equal to smoking pot, which is equal to shooting heroin I'm sure, which is also the same punishment for wearing a shirt with a sexually charged saying, because they are all the same thing.  Glad I could clear that up for you.

My, aren't you aggressive?

If a BOY was wearing that same shirt, he might not get in trouble for "indecent exposure." That was MY point.

Quote from: tekla on May 30, 2008, 08:10:41 PM
What's funny about the AIDS episode, and it's very, very funny... is that Kyle gets the exactly the same punishment for punching Cartman as Cartman gets for giving Kyle AIDS.  It's a pretty funny comment - and all too true - on the inability of the current society to make any rational judgment between any and all acts.

Meh.

I find my reaction to the show to be something like your post: "Aha, they're making a clever jab at the hypocrisy of society in its tendency to ______, and it's very funny because of the wild hyperbole and construction-paper-style animation." The trouble is that I never actually laugh. If I want poorly written juvenile animation, the Aqua Teen Hunger Force kicks Cartman's ass any day of the week.

>:D >:D >:D

Well, there's no accounting for taste. Cheers,

~Alyssa

What's funnier than five people watching South Park who get it?  Six people watching it, one of whom does not get it.

And Aqua Teen Hunger Force (a cardboard cut out if there ever was one) is not even close to Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law. 

Quote from: tekla on May 30, 2008, 08:53:22 PM
What's funnier than five people watching South Park who get it?  Six people watching it, one of whom does not get it.

I do what I can. ;)

QuoteAnd Aqua Teen Hunger Force (a cardboard cut out if there ever was one) is not even close to Harvey Birdman Attorney at Law. 

Oh, indeed, the animation on ATHF is thoroughly abysmal. Adult Swim pretty much rocks all around. It's the hearty, vitamin-B-rich yeast paste scraped from the bottom of the long-fermenting barrel of television beer.

Adult Swim pretty much rocks all around. It's the hearty, vitamin-B-rich yeast paste scraped from the bottom of the long-fermenting barrel of television beer.

At least for all the pot smokers who are up watching cartoons at ten PM.

omg I love Harvery Birdman xD

That episode you are not supposed to take the trans person as an example of an actual transsexual.

If you watch the show throughout the seasons, Mr. Garrison is well known for being ignorant and racist, and indecisive of his own identity. First he wants mexicans out of south park, then he is homosexual, then he wants a nose job, then he is a transexual, then he is an extremist christian, then he is a violent atheist, then he is a man again.

Mr. Garrison is the manifestation of discrimination and ignorance. He is to be learned from his actions, and not his preaching. South Park is saying DONT BE THIS PERSON! They are not saying THIS PERSON IS CORRECT!



Also, that last line in the episode was priceless! "Well get an aids test thomson cuz your wife's a dude, ->-bleeped-<-got!"

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 31, 2008, 12:56:17 AM
That episode you are not supposed to take the trans person as an example of an actual transsexual.

If you watch the show throughout the seasons, Mr. Garrison is well known for being ignorant and racist, and indecisive of his own identity. First he wants mexicans out of south park, then he is homosexual, then he wants a nose job, then he is a transexual, then he is an extremist christian, then he is a violent atheist, then he is a man again.

Mr. Garrison is the manifestation of discrimination and ignorance. He is to be learned from his actions, and not his preaching. South Park is saying DONT BE THIS PERSON! They are not saying THIS PERSON IS CORRECT!



Also, that last line in the episode was priceless! "Well get an aids test thomson cuz your wife's a dude, ->-bleeped-<-got!"

Thanks Gracie  :), that explained alot about Mr Garrison, he must be the embodiment of all the fundies out there.  I only saw that episode concerning him and I was kinda wondering what stance they (Sthpk creators) were taking on transfolks.  Probably not watching enough episodes makes it more confusing.

Quote from: buttercup on May 31, 2008, 01:02:04 AM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 31, 2008, 12:56:17 AM
That episode you are not supposed to take the trans person as an example of an actual transsexual.

If you watch the show throughout the seasons, Mr. Garrison is well known for being ignorant and racist, and indecisive of his own identity. First he wants mexicans out of south park, then he is homosexual, then he wants a nose job, then he is a transexual, then he is an extremist christian, then he is a violent atheist, then he is a man again.

Mr. Garrison is the manifestation of discrimination and ignorance. He is to be learned from his actions, and not his preaching. South Park is saying DONT BE THIS PERSON! They are not saying THIS PERSON IS CORRECT!



Also, that last line in the episode was priceless! "Well get an aids test thomson cuz your wife's a dude, ->-bleeped-<-got!"

Thanks Gracie  :), that explained alot about Mr Garrison, he must be the embodiment of all the fundies out there.  I only saw that episode concerning him and I was kinda wondering what stance they (Sthpk creators) were taking on transfolks.  Probably not watching enough episodes makes it more confusing.

Lol I've been watching south park for as long as I can remember and there is definitely a pattern.

True there is a pattern with Garrison (I watched the show from 99 to 06 by the way). Oh and the show is still lame.  ;D  (i was just being a bit of a brat with that last part.)

I think most people who watch south park are uniformed kids who think its funny to ridicule others

Quote from: kim_plumbobs on December 23, 2008, 07:53:53 AM
I think most people who watch south park are uniformed kids who think its funny to ridicule others

I'll be sure to pass that on to the folks I know who are 30+ with PHDs and love South Park.  ;)

Oh. South Park. It is here too. Generally it just despises all that is possible. I have never looked it really. Just read about. Total rubbish.

Quote from: goingdown on December 23, 2008, 02:47:30 PM
I have never looked it really. Just read about. Total rubbish.

Chocolate tastes bad. I've never actually tasted it, but I've read that it does. It's total rubbish.

I have seen parts of the episodes sometimes. The opinion comes always from that.

If South Park was not offending people then I'm sure Matt and Trey would be major bummed out. 

Quote from: goingdown on December 23, 2008, 02:51:36 PM
I have seen parts of the episodes sometimes. The opinion comes always from that.

And seeing a fragment of something is enough to form a solid opinion of it?
"Hi, I didn't read the whole book for my book report. I only read a few random pages and I didn't like them. So the book is crap. End of review."

How do you expect to understand the context of the scenes you watched if you didn't view the whole episode?

Quote from: tekla on December 23, 2008, 02:53:36 PM
If South Park was not offending people then I'm sure Matt and Trey would be major bummed out.

They actually did an episode about that, interestingly enough.  ;)

But is it as funny as the Michael Jackson molesting all of them, or Hillary Clinton's vagina episode.  That stuff was way over the edge, just when we thought they had run out of ideas.

Quote from: tekla on December 23, 2008, 02:59:49 PM
Hillary Clinton's vagina episode.

The snuke.
*ROFLS*
P.S. The episode wasn't about her vagina, FYI - it was about sensationalising terrorism and hysterical whistle-blowing. It was very Crucible.

Anytime you have a cartoon Hillary Clinton, with lots of vagina references, with lots of cartoon kids around her all referencing her vagina, its what people will remember.  I doubt that most people got the subtext of the Tourette episode either, at least the first time they saw it.  Everyone was so busy laughing you had to watch it again to get the half of the jokes you missed the first time cause you couldn't hear them.

I watch South Park.  The interesting thing is that, when I was in third grade [I think the show had just come out the year before or something] there was a kid in my class who watched it and quoted from it all the time, and my mom was appalled that a third grader was watching a show like that, so I was appalled, too, and assumed South Park was a crappy show only watched by juvenile delinquents.  I never watched an episode until high school, at which point I discovered it was actually quite funny. :D

Sometimes there are episodes that make me a little sad, like the one where Garrison became a lesbian and there were all these dyke jokes floating around.  But I can't get all angry and upset about it because South Park makes fun of everyone.  Equal opportunity offensiveness, if you can dish it out then you should be able to take it.  So even if I'm offended by certain episodes, I can still enjoy South Park. :) My favorite episode is when Tom Cruise was trapped in the closet.. aaaaaahhhhhh... ;D Never fails to crack me up. ;D

Quote from: tekla on December 23, 2008, 03:08:44 PM
Anytime you have a cartoon Hillary Clinton, with lots of vagina references, with lots of cartoon kids around her all referencing her vagina, its what people will remember.

...
And?
Doesn't change what the episode was about.

QuoteI doubt that most people got the subtext of the Tourette episode either, at least the first time they saw it.  Everyone was so busy laughing you had to watch it again to get the half of the jokes you missed the first time cause you couldn't hear them.

Try headphones.

Oh I watch that stuff with other people, its a social deal at work and all.  And the Clinton episode had just as much to do with the amount of BS in our political system and the campaigns as terrorism.  Turns out that often Matt and Trey have a bunch of stuff they are talking about, not just a topic sentence.  Its a cartoon, not a school essay.

Quote from: tekla on December 23, 2008, 03:19:29 PM
Its a cartoon, not a school essay.

Wait, wut???/

It's always about MONEY!  they do it for the dollar, they're trying to attract a wider audience so they can get better ratings.

Heres the equation:

wider audience=better ratings=$$$$$$$

Not really a southpark fan myself but it has brought me to tears of laughter more than once. I think the point of the show is to be over-the-top and offensive toward literally everyone, not to be taken seriously.

Quote from: riotgrrl101 on June 09, 2009, 05:16:45 PMI think the point of the show is to be over-the-top and offensive toward literally everyone, not to be taken seriously.

Precisely. That's why I don't watch it. See, I usually look for a show to be funny, which South Park stopped being for me after about two seasons, max. The original Spirit of Christmas viral video, from back in '97, before that phrase existed, was pure comedic gold, though.

But what's wrong with trying to step outside of culture and think about it in a "serious" manner, regardless the subject matter? (As long as you can still enjoy it if it doesn't suck, that is.)

Apparently US soldiers tortured Saddam Hussein by making him watch the South Park movie time and time again (he's Satan's gay lover for anyone who missed it.) And they presented Matt and Trey with an autograph from him, heh.

To me, in life, you have to either laugh or cry about bad things. Part of humor is to chop things up into manageable, not as scary chunks. Other people just appreciate black humor. Some people have to accept black humor in order to meet their comedic affirmative action quotas.

Oh, I love black humor. But only when it contains both parts (that is, the "black AND "humor" parts), plus a modicum of creativity. I'm not sure you could even describe SP as an attempt at "black humor" -- more barrel-scraping juvenile toilet humor, which can also be good , as long as it has the "humor" and "creativity" parts. SP = fail.

I have to agree, South Park got old pretty quick, as do most of the shows of that type, such as Family Guy.

I think this is the best episode of south park i've ever seen.  gave me a serious case of 'oh no they didn't...  but oh yes they did... and so well!'