Susan's Place Transgender Resources

What do you think determines your sex? 
I can think of three answers which would be: 1. genetics, 2. brain orientation, 3. how you live. 

1. Legally your physical appearance or genetics determines which sex you put on your drivers license.

2. However the center of your person is your mind or brain.  Therefore your mind could think you are a female but your physical body looks like a male.  You could consider yourself a female but as long as you act like a male then society will consider you a male.  I read that only 1 person in 100 has a brain sex that is opposite of the genetic sex.  I think the number might be higher because a male that acts like a female is treated brutally as a child and quickly learns to mask their differences.

3.  Finally a person that is born a male can live as the opposite sex their mind tells them they are without regard to physical and mental harm from society.  This person might have a stronger preference within their brain or maybe is mentally tougher.

I think a male with a female brain that lives as a male is a male. 
I think a male with a female brain that lives as a female is a female.

What do you think? I am interested in comments from all age groups but it would be nice to read comments from a few older people since I am as old as Abraham or should I say Sarah?

Well, my brain deturmins my gender....  I am female, thats all there is to it....  Genetics would be flawed because youd have to perform a chromosone test and DNA test on every person to find out what they geneticaly are...  (There are lots of people out there with IS conditions and some dont even know they have it)  People assume that if you appear male your geneticaly male and thats totaly false  *shrugs*

Best way Ive found to describe how I am.....   Im female, I just happen to suffer an extreem birth defect... thats all there is to it.  :)

Legally in the UK sex is determined by the sex registered at birth on your birth certificate. The law now allows TS to change this so long as they meet certain criteria.

The perception of other people is very important, as they will determine what sex you are by how you look, communicate and act.

As LynnER has pointed out genetically Chromsomes will determine you sex (XX/XY) but there are a great number of variations that give rise to intersex conditions or androgen sensitivity syndrome.

For me... it is how I think, act and behave.

Buffy

It seems that there are so many ways to look at it.. behavior, external genitalia, emotional expression, internal-mind life, so many others. Of course, it's possible to have mixtures.. that's why we are here on this site! I think that it's a mistake to regard these as fixed. Things change. I certainly have in so many ways. We are all evolving, becoming. Gender concepts have utility, but also dangers. They reflect a way of looking at things that is necessarily limited. True ultimate reality is probably very different than we look at things.
ok, /philosophizing off
:)

i believe you're talking about [physical sex] since you didn't use the word [gender], correct?
physical sex is determined by gametes.  gametes are sex cells from the parents which determine the [physical sex] of the child]. [the male] is the actual parent who's gametes [determine the sex]. the female produces gametes with only X sex chromosomes. the male produces gametes with either an X or a Y sex chromosome. when the male and female gametes join, the cell formed will have a [full set] of chromosomes. it will get and X from the female and either X or Y from the male. [XX] makes a [female] child, [XY] makes a [male] child.

I'm curious why you think someone with a female brain living as a guy is still a guy. I lived as a female for several years, but... I wasn't. Maybe I don't understand.

Quote from: Wendy on February 09, 2007, 01:13:42 PM
I think a male with a female brain that lives as a male is a male. 
I think a male with a female brain that lives as a female is a female.

What do you think? I am interested in comments from all age groups but it would be nice to read comments from a few older people since I am as old as Abraham or should I say Sarah?

This is just my opinion BTW....and I agree with you.  I know I will get "hell" for saying this but that is how things work in the real world.

Quote from: Tinkerbell on February 10, 2007, 12:28:17 AM
...unfortunately we form part of this society whether we like it or not.  Society has its own views on how a woman is supposed to behave, talk, dress, act, walk...etc.  Some people who consider themselves transgender will say things such as "I am a woman regardless of how I look or act".  However, I have always considered myself a very realistic person....and IMO....if anyone wants to be accepted and respected as a female in our society, one must look and act as a female; otherwise, no one is going to take us seriously...and least of all...no one is going to respect us and accept us as what we are, women.


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

Additionally, IMO, I can consider myself to be many things, but the question always arises...do other people see me, accept me, respect me as what I consider myself?...do I present as I consider myself?


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

I don't know exactly what determines your sex, but I know that I know that my sex wasn't comfortable to me until I changed.  After a lot of water over the bridge, I am still convinced that I made the right choice, the surgery.  but my right choice took me through another woman who loves me and cannot accdept  me as a women.  My choice is ondce again to go forward or not.
Pkease dion't expect miracles for yuorselves.  You have much to solve and hard times to gain, and you may not gain, but iet will be hard anyway, and very painful.
Now, I love a woman again, and made a mistake perhaps to marry her because I I am still a transexual.
I will always love to dress up as long as I live. 
and I think I deceived my wife into thinking I could change.  I would love to be able to change, but I think I cannot
I am very afraid.

Thoughts from a GG, I hope they are welcome...

I was raised with only boys around me. Not even a female cousin on either side.

I identify with males easily however I do not feel masculine or want to be a male. I identify with them because I spent the better part of my life observing them and cohabitating with them.

I am very very femine in appearance (most days lol) however I love many male skewed hobbies like football. Is football a gender sport? Only to those that play professionally.

I think our surrounding influences have little to do with the gender we determine ourselves to be. I do however believe our surrounding influeneces create a chasm in how WE ourselves feel about our gender.

I believe the "soul" is key in this. Our "soul" is who we really are. The body is merely a vessel or even better an animation vehicle for the soul.

Not sure if that made any sense at all but...

Togetherwecan: I think you've raised a valid point, but for this point to be valid, we have to determine what a soul is.
Now, for me, a soul is thoughts, emotions. Chemical reactions and electrical signals in the brain. A brain is merely a computer; it's the signals and reactions that make thoughts, emotions, instincts; that is a soul.
For instance: The male hemispheres aren't as well connected as the female hemispheres, which makes verbal communication less important to a male than it is, overall, to a female, while males often do not understand why females simply don't pick up their non-verbal communication, which plays a much bigger part in male communication than it usually does in female communication. Men don't speak as much, because they're usually not that good in expressing themselves verbally, but make up with this in body-language. (This not meant in any sexual way, but more as full-fledged way of communication.)

However, males, with a male brain, can still think female. It is possible for a male to be very much proficient with verbal expression. I myself love to write, debate, pun around, gossip, chatter.. It's real heaven if I do so with women. However, I have no problems whatsoever understanding male communication. How entire conversations can simply be held with a stare and a shrug, a cocking of the head, a raise of the lip, relaxing or tensing of certain muscles. And there's a beauty in that, too.
Likewise, I know women who are also completely compatible with 'male' language aswell as 'female' language. Yet, these women consider themselves fully female. (While I have to admit I consider myself both male and female.)
Men usually have better insight in distance, pressure, forces, rotation.. Technical stuff. But that isn't to say a woman cannot be just as good in that area. Woman are usually better in debate, let's face it. but that doesn't mean men can't do just as well. Men are usually better in cooperating. But this is only because women can be very aggressively competitive. There's no reason woman couldn't do just as well, really. Woman are often better authors. Yet, men can do just as well. (The reason men are often more successful at this is not that they are better, but because there's some social stigma that woman should stick to writing and reading books about romance. However, I've read a lot of female authors that simply blew my head away.)

So.. Do these inborn knacks determine our gender, while someone of the other gender may, in some cases given time, be equally good at it?
Yes, there are physical differences. Men envy women because they cannot be physically pregnant. Women envy men because men are physically stronger, heal faster and can take more damage. (This is simply an example; it of course does not apply to everyone.)
But do these differences determine our gender?

I think we are what we feel we are, rather than what others think we are. An MTF before having had the nescessary adjustments going to an interview in a male outfit is no more a male than that person is after she had help. She's a woman, regardless how she looks, in my opinion. She just has to get the chance to physically look more like a woman. And then: Is being a woman all about having breasts and not having a pair of socks down your pants? Or is it really in your head?
Yes, it does help to have the opposite sex brain when you're TS. But then again; a brain is just a jelly-like computer. A physical thing. A part of the body. While the pulses and chemicals residing there concern you as a person. Yes, an opposite sex brain does improve on these chemicals and signals. But truth be told: They can be there without.
I myself.. Well, I think I have a male brain. Never had it tested, though I have an extremely small hat-size. ;)
I do, however, have extremely high quantities of both estrogen and testosteron (And adrenaline, but that's something else) in my blood. Constantly. An overactive hypophyse? could well be. I'm planning on having my brain-functions tested soon, anyway.
...But this is getting off-topic... Sorry, lack of concentration.. *blushes*

Anyway; I think you are who you feel. And if part of the who you feel means you do not feel the gender you are, then you're not the right gender.

Quote"Plumming! You always assume sex is about plumming, Fitz! But it isn't; it's about love. Yes, I love you. Yes, I long for you. You know that, I know that. But we both know it's never going to be, because you worry about plumming."
-The Fool, The Tawny Man Trilogy, Robin Hobb.

I agree with all and disagree with all..
strangely i am in the mood where i wished i was a dog or something not even human!
there is little i can do with my situation but to roll with the flow and do the best i can for now!
sort of like the Zen stuff..
Man is not measured by the length of his cord but rather the thickness of it..

r

I think the answer depends on the context in which one's gender is viewed.  In a forum like this, people's sex is generally determined with how they identify, but like tinkerbell said, in day to day lives, it has to do with how we look and act.

Melissa

Wow thanks for the varied and interesting replies!

Dryad felt a man that thinks like a woman and dresses like a man is a woman.  Whereas Tink felt society has its own perception of what behavior defines a woman and if you look and act like a man then society considers you a male regardless of what you consider yourself.

In fact most of the people that know me on this site consider me a female since I was born with a female brain in a male body.  However society says I am a male.

Some individuals live with the gender defined by their brain even under ridicule, while others conform to the gender defined by society.  I do remember entering college and the guys talked about things that guys do.  Actually I had not done the things that guys do because I was not a guy.  Shortly thereafter I did start doing guy things and it felt unusual.

Togetherwecan stated our environment has "little to do with the gender we determine ourselves to be."  I agree with this comment but I do think society can play a significant role in the gender we express.

I can appreciate Ruthie's dilemma.  For now it is easier to wear my guy face.

How big an influence do hormones have on the gender of the brain over time? 

There are some very good arguments, finished with a good question. Does hrt change mind set with body, so does that help other beleave your true gender

Quote from: Wendy on March 13, 2007, 03:00:03 PM
How big an influence do hormones have on the gender of the brain over time? 

A HUGE influence.  More than you could imagine.  I know I still have a long ways to go with the changes, but I have talked to others much further along than me about this subject.

Melissa

Quote from: Wendy on March 13, 2007, 03:00:03 PM
How big an influence do hormones have on the gender of the brain over time?  

It is a huge impact on the brain, Wendy; and the longer you are hormones, the more obvious the changes are.  Literally your brain becomes feminized and you  begin to develop feelings, emotions, and needs usually associated with females.  If I compare myself with the person I used to be before HRT/transition; there is absolutely no comparison, for "they" are two completely different people. ;)

tink :icon_chick:

I am truly blessed to find people that understand what I struggle to say.

Lucy this site is where I try to understand what it means to be transgendered.  I share my thoughts with no one outside of this site.  In fact it is difficult for me to understand and accept me.

Melissa I have read a number of your posts and am impressed at the maturity you have reached in such  a short time!

Tinkerbell somehow you read between the lines.  When I talk about what determines your sex/gender I am talking about a host of issues, especially what gender society assigns to you.  When I was young I was a happy female.  By the time I was 18 hormones and society was transforming me into a male.  By the time I was 25 I performed and looked like a male.  I actually learned from other males to become a male.  Is that weird?

Two years of female hormones has done little to transform my outward appearance.  My strength has decreased but my physical measurements are similar to two years ago.  My disposition is much calmer and more passive.  In fact I am too passive.  However if I do not take female hormones for a day my mood swing is ultra sensitive and will I bite anyone and anything.

People still call me sir... boobs and all.  The following observation is rather funny. Women keep staring at my boobs and it makes me uncomfortable.  Women used to look me in the eyes but now they gaze straight ahead and look at my boobs.  I wear an undershirt and an extra large button down shirt to hide my boobs.  Men never gaze at my boobs but occasional slap me on the chest as a greeting.  Ooch that hurts!

I have a female brain in a male body that looks and acts like a male and prefers to be a female.   

To make things more complicated my mind's eye sees me different than I physically look.  I was 18 years old when I realized I had a male anatomy.   As I get older I look less and less like my mind's eye sees me.

If I can not pass my own critical eyes to look like a female then how can I expect others to accept me as a female?

Wendy,

I have not got the same problems as you but also use this site to find out why and how I can get better. Like you said this is the only place I can go to talk about Gender issues. I am and was born male but I have a female mind, I am trapped and I am trying to get theropy with the NHS, who are taking there time.

I come here to try and figure out what I want in life. HRT, SRS, FFS or just theropy. I really dont know any more the GID is awfull but my friends here at susans place are a really great help.

I hope you get your awnsers soon wendy

Luv Lucy

I think the sexual identity comes very early, from what others say, like, I've felt I'm a woman from childhood.  I know that's my experience.  Maybe it could be that we are born with a female brain in a male body.  Still, I think there has to be some "imprinting" process very early that allows the feminine side to emerge.  I'm not saying that it's a conscious plan to feminize a boy baby, but the right kind of social context  has to be present.

Lucy this site is a great place to talk and share.  I find that I can relate to some stories and not others.  This is the only place I have been able to share transgender issues without being an outcast.  However I deny being a transgender to myself.  I also sexually prefer woman which really complicates things if I continue on a path to try to be what my mind  prefers me to be.

I have taken a number of on-line tests which half the time categorize me as transexual and the other half the time categorize me as a she-male.  I am not sure what is a she-male.
.............

Dara Marie I am not sure if the imprinting process concept explains my behavior at a young age.  My mom accepted me as me.  I played games with the girls before I was old enough to go to school.  My best buddy was my younger sister (one year younger) and she played the doctor.  I was very happy.  When I entered public school the boys loved to take my stuff and make me cry.  I was a pretty boy.  My dad cut off my nice curly dark blond hair and gave me a crew cut.  He wanted me to go to school and fight.  I started to learn to "act like a boy" but I hated to fight.  I also disliked all contact sports.   My dad was an ex-Marine.  I would think I should be Macho-Man instead of Minnie Mouse?

............

Speaking of Macho-man I did see a public broadcasting show regarding sexual identity and found that some very masculine looking men responded to situations as the norm for the female population and vice-versa for some feminine looking women.  The whole thing of what determines your gender identity is far more complex than I imagined!

A she-male is... Well, a person with both breasts and male genitalia. (Penis and scrotum.) Generally feminine.
As opposed to hermaphrodites, people who are born with two physical genders, she-males recieve surgery to become she-male. That basically sums it up.

Just a question, concerning other people and your gender:
If your neighbour thinks you're an ->-bleeped-<-, does that make you an ->-bleeped-<-? If the government thinks you're a number; is that what you are? A number? If your senile parents mix you up with their other children; are you your siblings?

If a loony would be convinced you are a rock, then does that make you a rock?

Why, then, does it make any difference what gender the world thinks you are?

Quote from: Wendy on March 14, 2007, 06:23:16 PM
I am not sure what is a she-male.

Oh wow, there's a term from the past!  ;D ::) ;)

Perhaps you would be interested in reading this thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,9851.0.html) or maybe this one. (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,9831.msg70457)

shhhh :eusa_shhh: you didn't hear them from me though!  ;D

*Tink hides quickly*

tink :icon_chick:

Tink and Dryad thank you very much for your responses. 

Tink I am not an effeminate gay male or a Hollywood porn star so that I do not fit that definition.  However I still have male parts.

Dryad your comments are very thought provoking and I had to read them several things to understand them.

I have learned that we are part male and part female.  I am very sensitive and can cry at a Wedding and probably have more empathy for people than many females.  On the flip side I am right brain dominant (3 of 4 lefties are male) and can write poetry, cook fantastic meals, and see the results of a complex project in my head before the project is started.

I have not dismissed your arguments on a person being a girl even if that person has the anatomy of a boy and is viewed by others as being a boy.

I can tell you I do care what people think.  I am also scared what people can do to you (i.e. a boss can fire you for being different).  I do on many occasions come to the support of other people but I have trouble defending myself.

I am not a trend setter and do try to fit in.   I think I have blocked out all my cross-gender events from my mind.  Many of them are very extreme. 

I have tried so hard to be a boy.  (That is making me cry! Maybe too many females hormones.)

Dryad I am not sure of your comment and will continue to think about it.  I have convinced many people that I am male and I may have been able to fool me. Perception is reality.

Thanks again.

   

Quote from: Katia on February 09, 2007, 03:19:12 PM
i believe you're talking about [physical sex] since you didn't use the word [gender], correct?
physical sex is determined by gametes.  gametes are sex cells from the parents which determine the [physical sex] of the child]. [the male] is the actual parent who's gametes [determine the sex]. the female produces gametes with only X sex chromosomes. the male produces gametes with either an X or a Y sex chromosome. when the male and female gametes join, the cell formed will have a [full set] of chromosomes. it will get and X from the female and either X or Y from the male. [XX] makes a [female] child, [XY] makes a [male] child.

Unless of course you have an anomalous genetic make up. There are cases of XXY, XXXY(Klinefelter's Syndrome), XXY and XXX(Turner's syndrome).  Mosaicism also manifests in other combinations each responsible for different birth defects not the least of which may be IS.

Karen Lyn

Kiera you made me laugh and Karen Lyn I loved the story about your speeding ticket.

...........
I removed my gender from my profile because I confused people with a male gender and a female picture.

I remain am confused of my own gender but I am a genetic XY. 

My argument is if you look like a male, act like a male, are a genetic male,  society perceives you as a male but you think you are a female then you are a male.  Dryad made some strong arguments to the contrary concluding that you would be a female.  Dryad raised the following question:

Quote from: Dryad on March 15, 2007, 08:28:29 PM
Why, then, does it make any difference what gender the world thinks you are?

My answer would be, "Because I said so!"   This argument is used by all women when I am winning a debate and it automatically means I go directly to jail and do not pass go.  However if I win the argument with this answer then I prove Dryad correct since only females can use this answer.

Maybe this is the answer:
If I get SRS then I probably will lose many individuals that are important to me, any means of earning a living, and involvement in the church.  (God understands but most people do not.)

However Melissa and Tink also made good points:

Quote from: Melissa on February 24, 2007, 09:11:41 PM
I think the answer depends on the context in which one's gender is viewed.  In a forum like this, people's sex is generally determined with how they identify, but like tinkerbell said, in day to day lives, it has to do with how we look and act.

I close with a little satire and irony which will strengthen Dylan's argument.

A teenage girl said: "You have less eyebrows than me!" Truly this is embarrassing when said to an xy.  For now this xy will not dress with a dress but with a loose button down shirt.  A tight button down shirt would have the teenage girl asking more embarrassing questions.