Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Trans Does Not Mean Gay

July 2, 2011. 6:38 pm
Posted by: Jillian Page

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2011/07/02/trans-does-not-mean-gay-gender-identity-vs-sexual-orientation/ (http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2011/07/02/trans-does-not-mean-gay-gender-identity-vs-sexual-orientation/)

In an earlier post, I wondered about the "B" in LGBT. But sometimes, I wonder about the "T" as well. As do many trans people. Indeed, many trans people would rather not see the "T" associated with LGB.

[...]

Which is all to say that trans people walk a very distinct path. I'm happy that GLB organizations like GLAAD are helping us, but ultimately, we stand alone — both as a group and as individuals. We encounter problems unique to trans folks: our "coming out" experience is entirely different. And trans people have a long, long way to go before we will have the sort of acceptance that gays and lesbians are experiencing today. Many people, including some gays and lesbians, still see us as "too strange."

Agreed one is not the same as the other, but most people just don't get it...  :(

my mom understands the difference logically, but emotionally she throws all these non-conformatives in the same bag, "people she has trouble understanding and accepting, and wouldn't want in her family". just asked her about her thoughts on transsexuality today, and first thing she did was liken it to homosexuality... guess i won't ever even try to come out to her, she can live in her safe little "heterosexual" box for as long as she likes, i won't be the one to try and drag her out to face reality

...nor does orange mean apple.  From everything I can gather, the initial misinformation that was poured into the minds of the mainstream was trans is gay but gay isn't always trans.  The idea a crossdresser is heterosexual and happily married and willfully monogamous was utter nonsense back then.  A lot of people still believe that today.  If a man puts on a dress, he has to be gay, whether he admits it or not.

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 03, 2011, 01:42:06 PM
...nor does orange mean apple.  From everything I can gather, the initial misinformation that was poured into the minds of the mainstream was trans is gay but gay isn't always trans.  The idea a crossdresser is heterosexual and happily married and willfully monogamous was utter nonsense back then.  A lot of people still believe that today.  If a man puts on a dress, he has to be gay, whether he admits it or not.

Beisexual and lesbian transwomen are a myth don't you know that. We are all just gay men in dress's. (Think I wear a dress about once every few months at most...)

  My whole family knows that trans does not mean gay!  I got a few gay bashers in my extended family.  They accepted me for what I am.  I love them all!
  Joelene

Kia Ora,

::) I just wonder what would have happened if the trail blazing trans[those stonewallers that battled for both gay and trans rights-remember back then it was seen as just "gay" rights] had never hung out in gay bars and clubs...Would the general public see transsexual people[especially in the US] in a different light ?

::) On a personal level I'm not worried about the whole trans-verses gay thing...I have both gay and trans-friends and treat them just the same that is as :icon_hug: "people" :icon_hug:

Metta Zenda :)

Possibly part of the reason most common folks don't understand the difference is because the gay and lesbian community is all they know about

While the gay and lesbian community was taking issue and standing up for equal rights the trans community was and still is arguing over terms and other more trans than thou stuff

Really? the way i hear it (and this from the unity crowd) is that back in the good old days we were all one and the debate over terms is very recent.

Since i myself am very recent, in terms of coming out, still under 2 years, I can't really say on that.

-----------------------------------

I do know that there are various places i post online where gay posters will occasionally say "I don't get the trannies either"

but the gay people i know IRL have been my biggest supporters.

As for "normal" folks - probably the #1 question I've gotten across the board: "So, does this mean you like guys now?"

My wife STILL makes a point of saying in one form or another at least once every couple of weeks "Really, you're just gay"

There's a distinctive difference between the gay man who does drag and a trans person.  And, based on personal conversations I have had, that's something that surprises a lot of people.  But "back in the day" most of the "trans people" you saw or read about were gay men in drag.  It's only been in recent years the more common transgender person is seen and/or heard and the bulk of them are TS.  What separates the women from the boys is the desire to have GRS.  The gay men into drag I've spoken to shriek in horror at even the mention of losing their boy parts.

This is something a lot of people get wrong.  Some, even when you inform them, just can't wrap their heads around it.  It's that contrary to what they learned.  But then again, an awful lot of people don't even want to think about altering their genitals.

Part of the problem is that we're still recovering from decades of "trans" meaning "transvestite" in most people's minds, before "cross dresser" and "transsexual/transgender" became more common terms, so it's only recently that "trans" hasn't automatically implied clothing rather than gender. So a lot of people still just think (without thinking):

man who likes to dress as a woman --> effeminate --> gay
rather than
clothing/gender --> no indication of sexual orientation

It's quite a new concept for a lot of people that gender and sexuality are distinct things. I mean, if some of the gender "professionals" around the world are still baulking at the idea that not everyone who transitions wants to end up as a stereotypical heterosexual, then it's a stretch to expect the less-informed world at large to get it, without some help.

I consider myself fortunate to be (for want of a better word) bisexual, because most people can get their heads around the idea that this works for whatever gender you are.

Maybe the world's population will one day have a collective cup of tea and a good lie down. But I'm not hopeful. Maybe the article should be repeated monthly for eternity.

Maybe because the gay community wants to stand up and stand out for who they are and are happy with who they are inside and out, they can't quite understand. But in the transgender community we are looking to quietly fit in and just be who we are inside and trying to look how we feel. I for one would be happy to fly under the radar and just be. I for one, have no desire to be with a man in this incarnation, after SRS.... maybe... if i ever get that far.

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 04, 2011, 05:17:45 AM
There's a distinctive difference between the gay man who does drag and a trans person.  And, based on personal conversations I have had, that's something that surprises a lot of people.  But "back in the day" most of the "trans people" you saw or read about were gay men in drag.  It's only been in recent years the more common transgender person is seen and/or heard and the bulk of them are TS.  What separates the women from the boys is the desire to have GRS.  The gay men into drag I've spoken to shriek in horror at even the mention of losing their boy parts.

This is something a lot of people get wrong.  Some, even when you inform them, just can't wrap their heads around it.  It's that contrary to what they learned.  But then again, an awful lot of people don't even want to think about altering their genitals.

Indeed. I had a conversation Saturday with a gay man - one I've known for years but only at a distance. He did drag back in the day (though I didn't know it then) and in the last couple of years has traded the "twink" look for full on female presentation on a daily basis.

We were, so to speak, comparing notes and i asked him if he was trans too and he didn't even know what the term meant, so I said "you would be fully female if you could?" and he said "oh my god NO!"

but it definitely occurs to me that the average person on the street sees HIM as the "standard issue" transsexual more than me.

Quote from: Padma on July 04, 2011, 06:04:26 AM

It's quite a new concept for a lot of people that gender and sexuality are distinct things. I mean, if some of the gender "professionals" around the world are still baulking at the idea that not everyone who transitions wants to end up as a stereotypical heterosexual, then it's a stretch to expect the less-informed world at large to get it, without some help.

Same conversation I referenced above - my gay friend had to be told twice or three times in the conversation that wanting to be female said nothing one way or the other about who i wanted to have sex with or be attractive to.

I was kind of shocked at how little he knew given that he was a man sitting there in female clothing.

Quote from: Valeriedances on July 04, 2011, 06:20:20 AM
Respectfully, it is not an argument over terms. Not at all.

It is an argument over self determination. The right to transition and be known as simply a man or woman. That transition has an exit clause, which was always the intent of SRS.

It is an argument that some folks are not gay, and that some folks are binary identified, not variant.

It is an argument because the transgender and gay communities do not recognize those folks. But insist that once a trans person, always a trans person.

It is an argument because some have taken the transsexual story of transition and its terminology and have confused the public over what transition means. And because their numbers are larger that is what the public perceives.

We have issues. But it is not over terms.

Well said.