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Title: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: Shana A on July 04, 2011, 07:34:42 AM
Post by: Shana A on July 04, 2011, 07:34:42 AM
Saturday, July 02, 2011
A critical opportunity in transgender research
By Angus "Andrea" Grieve-Smith
http://transgroupblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/critical-opportunity-in-transgender.html (http://transgroupblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/critical-opportunity-in-transgender.html)
The Department of Health and Human Services has just made a big announcement: they will begin collecting data on LGBT issues, including transgender issues. The goal is to document disparities in health care, as well as plain old disparities in health, so that they can be addressed in the future. The plan is to have two roundtables on "gender identity data collection" with "key experts" this summer and fall, and then the "Data Council" will present a strategy next spring. The department will also collect public comment in various ways, one being through a website called regulations.gov, which is currently down.
If done right, this could be a tremendous help to understanding transgender issues. "The first step is to make sure we are asking the right questions," HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told the Washington Post. "Sound data collection takes careful planning to ensure that accurate and actionable data is being recorded." As I've written before, current research on transgender feelings and actions is severely hampered by the lack of any kind of representative sample. Just to give you a quick sense, here are ten very basic questions that nobody knows the answer to:
A critical opportunity in transgender research
By Angus "Andrea" Grieve-Smith
http://transgroupblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/critical-opportunity-in-transgender.html (http://transgroupblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/critical-opportunity-in-transgender.html)
The Department of Health and Human Services has just made a big announcement: they will begin collecting data on LGBT issues, including transgender issues. The goal is to document disparities in health care, as well as plain old disparities in health, so that they can be addressed in the future. The plan is to have two roundtables on "gender identity data collection" with "key experts" this summer and fall, and then the "Data Council" will present a strategy next spring. The department will also collect public comment in various ways, one being through a website called regulations.gov, which is currently down.
If done right, this could be a tremendous help to understanding transgender issues. "The first step is to make sure we are asking the right questions," HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told the Washington Post. "Sound data collection takes careful planning to ensure that accurate and actionable data is being recorded." As I've written before, current research on transgender feelings and actions is severely hampered by the lack of any kind of representative sample. Just to give you a quick sense, here are ten very basic questions that nobody knows the answer to:
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: kate durcal on July 04, 2011, 11:28:03 AM
Post by: kate durcal on July 04, 2011, 11:28:03 AM
and the 10 questions are:.........??
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: Padma on July 04, 2011, 11:39:03 AM
Post by: Padma on July 04, 2011, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: kate durcal on July 04, 2011, 11:28:03 AM
and the 10 questions are:.........??
Click on the link for the full article, but the 10 questions are:
How many transgender people are there?
How common are the various transgender thoughts, feelings and beliefs?
How common are transgender actions like cross-dressing, body modifications, and "soft mods" like shaving?
How common are transgender name and pronoun changes?
How common are part-time cross-living and full time transition?
How often are sexual activities part of transgender activities?
How common are diseases and destructive habits among transgender populations?
How many transgender people are in long-term relationships?
How often are various subgroups targeted by violence and discrimination?
How satisfied are transsexuals twenty, thirty or forty years post-transition?
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: LordKAT on July 04, 2011, 11:40:08 AM
Post by: LordKAT on July 04, 2011, 11:40:08 AM
How many transgender people are there?
How common are the various transgender thoughts, feelings and beliefs?
How common are transgender actions like cross-dressing, body modifications, and "soft mods" like shaving?
How common are transgender name and pronoun changes?
How common are part-time cross-living and full time transition?
How often are sexual activities part of transgender activities?
And this matters why? Sexual activities are human (and other species) not just transgender.
How common are diseases and destructive habits among transgender populations?
My issue with this wording is that some say cross dressing is destructive while others do not making 'destructive' a matter of opinion.
How many transgender people are in long-term relationships?
How often are various subgroups targeted by violence and discrimination?
How satisfied are transsexuals twenty, thirty or forty years post-transition?
Good luck finding many who are satisfied and willing to out themselves for a survey. Skewed results will happen I think.
How common are the various transgender thoughts, feelings and beliefs?
How common are transgender actions like cross-dressing, body modifications, and "soft mods" like shaving?
How common are transgender name and pronoun changes?
How common are part-time cross-living and full time transition?
How often are sexual activities part of transgender activities?
And this matters why? Sexual activities are human (and other species) not just transgender.
How common are diseases and destructive habits among transgender populations?
My issue with this wording is that some say cross dressing is destructive while others do not making 'destructive' a matter of opinion.
How many transgender people are in long-term relationships?
How often are various subgroups targeted by violence and discrimination?
How satisfied are transsexuals twenty, thirty or forty years post-transition?
Good luck finding many who are satisfied and willing to out themselves for a survey. Skewed results will happen I think.
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: Padma on July 04, 2011, 11:45:16 AM
Post by: Padma on July 04, 2011, 11:45:16 AM
How often are sexual activities part of transgender activities?
I was just in the middle of posting a "what on earth??" response when you beat me to it.
I was just in the middle of posting a "what on earth??" response when you beat me to it.
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: grvsmth on July 30, 2011, 03:29:19 PM
Post by: grvsmth on July 30, 2011, 03:29:19 PM
Thanks for linking to my post! The deadline for commenting to the government on the data collection process is Monday.
I don't think cross-dressing is destructive; what I meant by "destructive habits" are things that I think most of us would agree on, like drug abuse, unprotected sex, and cutting.
With regard to sexual activities, of course most people have sexual activities. But for some people, the only time they engage in transgender activities, it is overtly sexual, such as cross-dressing for masturbation, to pick up sexual partners or to enhance their sexual pleasure. For others, sex is a relatively small component of their transgender activities. I'm interested in knowing what patterns there are in connecting sex with transgender activities. The question I wrote may not be the best way to put it, but I wasn't putting that out as a survey.
It may be hard to find satisfied long-term post-transition transsexuals who are willing to discuss their experience, but even if it proves to be impossible to know the answer to the question, that doesn't mean we shouldn't consider the question.
If any of you have thoughts about what data you'd like to see, please let me know.
I don't think cross-dressing is destructive; what I meant by "destructive habits" are things that I think most of us would agree on, like drug abuse, unprotected sex, and cutting.
With regard to sexual activities, of course most people have sexual activities. But for some people, the only time they engage in transgender activities, it is overtly sexual, such as cross-dressing for masturbation, to pick up sexual partners or to enhance their sexual pleasure. For others, sex is a relatively small component of their transgender activities. I'm interested in knowing what patterns there are in connecting sex with transgender activities. The question I wrote may not be the best way to put it, but I wasn't putting that out as a survey.
It may be hard to find satisfied long-term post-transition transsexuals who are willing to discuss their experience, but even if it proves to be impossible to know the answer to the question, that doesn't mean we shouldn't consider the question.
If any of you have thoughts about what data you'd like to see, please let me know.
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: spacial on July 31, 2011, 06:23:25 AM
Post by: spacial on July 31, 2011, 06:23:25 AM
Mr. Smith.
Your enquiries are laudable if their purpose is as you seem to believe and say. But this sentence:
tends to indicate that you have disturbing preconceptions. Mainly concerning sexual motivations.
If I may, I will attempt to illustrate the point.
There is a norm in human relationships, namely that which pertains to the majority, generally. It tends to go under the term, heterosexuality. Men and women, seek out relationships with the opposite sex, quite spontaneously. Their motivations include a number of emotional needs, which include sex but also social. Otherwise, any contact between men and women would be sex then they go their separate ways.
Indeed, in any cross gender relationship, any 'normal' relationship, the sexual motive becomes increasingly less significant. What tends to become more and more significant is the mutual emotional validations they give to each other. The reinforcing of self-esteem. The complimenting of minds and ideas.
In almost every 'normal' relationship, sexual contact becomes less and less important, less frequent. The joke, that people get married to stop having sex, while a little rye, contains a grain of truth.
Now some people, find they prefer relationships with partners of the same sex. The relationships, in the long term are almost identical, complimenting of minds and ideas, reinforcing self-esteem. The emphasis upon sex is from outside observers, usually along with often preposterous and invariably impertinent notions of what sort of sexual contact they might have.
The insecurities, the continual affirmation of sexual identity that is associated with homosexual couples, often inaccurately, are created by the insecurity the couple will generally feel, living such an unconventional relationship, within a community of couples in 'normal' relationships. The anticipation of having to deal with hostility from some who may take it upon themselves to attack what is seen as abnormal, is threatening. It's like living in a house which you continually suspect, is going to fall down. Even though it never does.
That insecurity is normal, of course. It will take a big leap in social evolution before any resolution.
People who seek to change their gender do so because they feel uncomfortable in relationships and in their relationship with society, from the perspective of their given gender. (I appreciate that some transgender people make passionate claims about how they had no choice. While not wishing to undermine these noble sentiments, given the historical evidence of the perpetuating examples of transgender people, such passions are self deceiving). But the presumption that their motivations are sexual are to dismiss the entire venture into a sexual fetish, done for gratification of a sexual desire. That is clearly and self evidently, untrue. The motivation people people who actively seek to alter the perception society has of their gender and so the position they will assume in society, is based upon a similar and complex attempt to integrate into greater society in a manner more compatible with their feelings and conscience.
Do you understand?
The list of questions you seek to pose are based upon the assumption, however unconscionably, that transgender is a fetish. It isn't. It's an attempt to adapt the physical presentation to fit in with the social aspirations.
There will be many examples of transgender people people who are, ultimately unsuccessful in achieving their social objectives. But the problem for these people are the same as for any individual who seeks to alter their life prospects with an affirmative act, that their expect ions were unrealistic.
I have a niece who returned to university and eventually gained a masters degree. After some time, she eventually decided to return to the office work she was doing before.
I appreciate that many transgender people don't seem to have that choice. If you think about it, no-one does. The man who comes out as gay, will always be known as the guy who use to be a bit, you know?. The woman who gets a tattoo.
If the social service issues need to be examined, it is how those expressing transgender notions need to be supported, if at all. Both while proceeding toward that goal and how they will deal with it, once the physical goal has been achieved.
For professionals to claim they have post-op transgender patients who deeply regret their decision is evidence of their failure. Large, I suggest, based upon their assumptions that the physical transformation could be the ultimate goal.
So, the first question I suggest, should be, what, if any, interventions should be made for people expressing transgender notions? How should these be designed? To what extend should those health professionals see it as their responsibility to intervene and potentially prevent someone from transition?
Any sexual motivations seem to be, frankly, gratuitous.
Your enquiries are laudable if their purpose is as you seem to believe and say. But this sentence:
QuoteUnfortunately, transgender research is dominated by two camps, the pathologists who make unfounded generalizations based on case studies of their own patients, and the social service providers who make unfounded generalizations based on service recipients,
tends to indicate that you have disturbing preconceptions. Mainly concerning sexual motivations.
If I may, I will attempt to illustrate the point.
There is a norm in human relationships, namely that which pertains to the majority, generally. It tends to go under the term, heterosexuality. Men and women, seek out relationships with the opposite sex, quite spontaneously. Their motivations include a number of emotional needs, which include sex but also social. Otherwise, any contact between men and women would be sex then they go their separate ways.
Indeed, in any cross gender relationship, any 'normal' relationship, the sexual motive becomes increasingly less significant. What tends to become more and more significant is the mutual emotional validations they give to each other. The reinforcing of self-esteem. The complimenting of minds and ideas.
In almost every 'normal' relationship, sexual contact becomes less and less important, less frequent. The joke, that people get married to stop having sex, while a little rye, contains a grain of truth.
Now some people, find they prefer relationships with partners of the same sex. The relationships, in the long term are almost identical, complimenting of minds and ideas, reinforcing self-esteem. The emphasis upon sex is from outside observers, usually along with often preposterous and invariably impertinent notions of what sort of sexual contact they might have.
The insecurities, the continual affirmation of sexual identity that is associated with homosexual couples, often inaccurately, are created by the insecurity the couple will generally feel, living such an unconventional relationship, within a community of couples in 'normal' relationships. The anticipation of having to deal with hostility from some who may take it upon themselves to attack what is seen as abnormal, is threatening. It's like living in a house which you continually suspect, is going to fall down. Even though it never does.
That insecurity is normal, of course. It will take a big leap in social evolution before any resolution.
People who seek to change their gender do so because they feel uncomfortable in relationships and in their relationship with society, from the perspective of their given gender. (I appreciate that some transgender people make passionate claims about how they had no choice. While not wishing to undermine these noble sentiments, given the historical evidence of the perpetuating examples of transgender people, such passions are self deceiving). But the presumption that their motivations are sexual are to dismiss the entire venture into a sexual fetish, done for gratification of a sexual desire. That is clearly and self evidently, untrue. The motivation people people who actively seek to alter the perception society has of their gender and so the position they will assume in society, is based upon a similar and complex attempt to integrate into greater society in a manner more compatible with their feelings and conscience.
Do you understand?
The list of questions you seek to pose are based upon the assumption, however unconscionably, that transgender is a fetish. It isn't. It's an attempt to adapt the physical presentation to fit in with the social aspirations.
There will be many examples of transgender people people who are, ultimately unsuccessful in achieving their social objectives. But the problem for these people are the same as for any individual who seeks to alter their life prospects with an affirmative act, that their expect ions were unrealistic.
I have a niece who returned to university and eventually gained a masters degree. After some time, she eventually decided to return to the office work she was doing before.
I appreciate that many transgender people don't seem to have that choice. If you think about it, no-one does. The man who comes out as gay, will always be known as the guy who use to be a bit, you know?. The woman who gets a tattoo.
If the social service issues need to be examined, it is how those expressing transgender notions need to be supported, if at all. Both while proceeding toward that goal and how they will deal with it, once the physical goal has been achieved.
For professionals to claim they have post-op transgender patients who deeply regret their decision is evidence of their failure. Large, I suggest, based upon their assumptions that the physical transformation could be the ultimate goal.
So, the first question I suggest, should be, what, if any, interventions should be made for people expressing transgender notions? How should these be designed? To what extend should those health professionals see it as their responsibility to intervene and potentially prevent someone from transition?
Any sexual motivations seem to be, frankly, gratuitous.
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: Annah on July 31, 2011, 07:54:48 AM
Post by: Annah on July 31, 2011, 07:54:48 AM
Quote from: Padma on July 04, 2011, 11:45:16 AM
How often are sexual activities part of transgender activities?
I was just in the middle of posting a "what on earth??" response when you beat me to it.
That question is more than likely geared toward those who crossdress just for sex or masturbation. In which case, there are those who in our spectrum who does only that.
I believe the research is designed for all spectrum but i could be wrong.
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: Annah on July 31, 2011, 08:00:07 AM
Post by: Annah on July 31, 2011, 08:00:07 AM
Quote from: spacial on July 31, 2011, 06:23:25 AM
Mr. Smith.
Your enquiries are laudable if their purpose is as you seem to believe and say. But this sentence:
,
tends to indicate that you have disturbing preconceptions. Mainly concerning sexual motivations.......
Any sexual motivations seem to be, frankly, gratuitous.
Spatial, I think you are preaching to the choir with him.
He mentioned how transgender studies has unfortunately grouped transgender people into two categories. He wasn't saying that he grouped transgender into two categories.
This thread has been an interesting observation so far. I can now see why people who aren't transgender are so intimidated about us or keep their distance. The transgender MTF people are probably the most easiest offended group I have personally encountered; second from conservative religion.
It's like someone "from the outside" has to get the language "just right" in order to be taken seriously, and the ironic thing is, we as a transgender people argue among ourselves over getting the language "just right."
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: Lisbeth on July 31, 2011, 08:11:07 AM
Post by: Lisbeth on July 31, 2011, 08:11:07 AM
Quote from: spacial on July 31, 2011, 06:23:25 AMYour conclusion is unwarranted based on the evidence. I saw nothing in the questions to suggest what you are saying.
The list of questions you seek to pose are based upon the assumption, however unconscionably, that transgender is a fetish.
"How often are sexual activities part of transgender activities?"
In fact I see the question as a very positive thing when combined with this statement: "pathologists who make unfounded generalizations based on case studies of their own patients." The two together take direct aim at the idea some have that we all have ->-bleeped-<-. Blanchard may have demonstrated that ->-bleeped-<- exists, but he can no way tell us how common or rare it is. With HHS involved, we may finally get the DSM straightened out.
These questions are our opportunity. With good answers to them...
QuoteWe can finally lay to rest that stupid "1 in 30,000" number.
How many transgender people are there?
QuoteWe can finally get a breakdown on the numbers of CD vs TS vs DQ vs unicorns.
How common are the various transgender thoughts, feelings and beliefs?
How common are transgender actions like cross-dressing, body modifications, and "soft mods" like shaving?
How common are transgender name and pronoun changes?
How common are part-time cross-living and full time transition?
QuoteWe can challenge the Blanchard's of the DSM world.
How often are sexual activities part of transgender activities?
QuoteWe can know what GID has really cost us.
How common are diseases and destructive habits among transgender populations?
How many transgender people are in long-term relationships?
How often are various subgroups targeted by violence and discrimination?
QuoteAnd we can have a tool to fight the right-wing ex-->-bleeped-<- movement.
How satisfied are transsexuals twenty, thirty or forty years post-transition?
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: regan on July 31, 2011, 08:56:23 AM
Post by: regan on July 31, 2011, 08:56:23 AM
Quote from: Annah on July 31, 2011, 07:54:48 AM
That question is more than likely geared toward those who crossdress just for sex or masturbation. In which case, there are those who in our spectrum who does only that.
I believe the research is designed for all spectrum but i could be wrong.
I got the impression that they're quite possibly trying to disprove TG/TS behaviors as part of a sexual fettish. That if their theory is correct, the research will prove that sex as a motivation for TS/TG behaviors is actually quite low. On the other hand, it may also be to segregate the health and psychological needs of the fettishist from the non-fettishist and use the data to provide appropriate healthcare for all.
Realistically, health care needs for Trans vs. Cis males and females are going to be different. From the MtF perspective, we have parts that ciswomen don't have and we're lacking lacking some of their parts as well. As the age of transition, and first HRT, and first surgical procedures have been dropping faster and faster there are health care issues that need to be explored. When long term HRT for an MtF who transitioned at 50, might only have been 30 years (give or take), what are the issues now that it could be 60 years or more? Why is it that no news show has profiled a young MtF transitioner past the age of 10 which leads me to my next question what are the health (medical and psychological) concerns when your first milestone was going full time in first grade? Should the diagnosis (CD vs TG) limit the access to medical services (limited HRT, various cosmetic surgeries without the intent of full genital surgery or even full time living)?
These are important questions that need to be explored. That's the impression I got from all of the questions.
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: kate durcal on July 31, 2011, 09:39:19 AM
Post by: kate durcal on July 31, 2011, 09:39:19 AM
Quote from: regan on July 31, 2011, 08:56:23 AM
I got the impression that they're quite possibly trying to disprove TG/TS behaviors as part of a sexual fettish. That if their theory is correct, the research will prove that sex as a motivation for TS/TG behaviors is actually quite low. On the other hand, it may also be to segregate the health and psychological needs of the fettishist from the non-fettishist and use the data to provide appropriate healthcare for all.
Realistically, health care needs for Trans vs. Cis males and females are going to be different. From the MtF perspective, we have parts that ciswomen don't have and we're lacking lacking some of their parts as well. As the age of transition, and first HRT, and first surgical procedures have been dropping faster and faster there are health care issues that need to be explored. When long term HRT for an MtF who transitioned at 50, might only have been 30 years (give or take), what are the issues now that it could be 60 years or more? Why is it that no news show has profiled a young MtF transitioner past the age of 10 which leads me to my next question what are the health (medical and psychological) concerns when your first milestone was going full time in first grade? Should the diagnosis (CD vs TG) limit the access to medical services (limited HRT, various cosmetic surgeries without the intent of full genital surgery or even full time living)?
These are important questions that need to be explored. That's the impression I got from all of the questions.
Well said Regan, and if I may add. This medical effort should help with the RLE, and with gender identity protective legislation, such as ENDA.
Kate D
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: Ann Onymous on July 31, 2011, 11:18:12 AM
Post by: Ann Onymous on July 31, 2011, 11:18:12 AM
Quote from: grvsmth on July 30, 2011, 03:29:19 PM
It may be hard to find satisfied long-term post-transition transsexuals who are willing to discuss their experience, but even if it proves to be impossible to know the answer to the question, that doesn't mean we shouldn't consider the question.
If any of you have thoughts about what data you'd like to see, please let me know.
I am one of those long-term individuals who has had life in order for a few decades now (and is also what one would generally consider 'stealth' or 'woodworked'), but I refuse to participate in ANY survey that insists on using the insipid 'transgender' term. I am not now nor was I EVER a person who found that term to be applicable to their life experience...
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: spacial on July 31, 2011, 01:32:04 PM
Post by: spacial on July 31, 2011, 01:32:04 PM
Quote from: Lisbeth on July 31, 2011, 08:11:07 AM
Your conclusion is unwarranted based on the evidence. I saw nothing in the questions to suggest what you are saying.
Well, that's very sad.
But I just can't be bothered arguing with you. Tea anyone?
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: kate durcal on July 31, 2011, 02:19:27 PM
Post by: kate durcal on July 31, 2011, 02:19:27 PM
Quote from: spacial on July 31, 2011, 01:32:04 PM
Well, that's very sad.
But I just can't be bothered arguing with you. Tea anyone?
High Tea! Count me in dear!
Kate D
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: spacial on August 01, 2011, 12:49:16 AM
Post by: spacial on August 01, 2011, 12:49:16 AM
Quote from: kate durcal on July 31, 2011, 02:19:27 PM
High Tea! Count me in dear!
Kate D
Indeed.
These DoH's tend to be pretty self assured. Such a wasted opportunity if they play to the tittilation crowd.
It does suggest the medics are not yet ready to back down though. I was, frankly surprised that they had given in this easily.
Title: Re: A critical opportunity in transgender research
Post by: Lisbeth on August 01, 2011, 06:14:33 AM
Post by: Lisbeth on August 01, 2011, 06:14:33 AM
Quote from: spacial on July 31, 2011, 01:32:04 PM
Well, that's very sad.
But I just can't be bothered arguing with you. Tea anyone?
*shrug* Your loss. Don't want to challenge your assumptions?