Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey girls i have a deep but not as deep voice as most boys and well i am planning going full time at beginning of 2013 and i want to practice and develop my voice as soon as possible.

Any and all ideas welcome ^^

I went to a local voice coach who works with transwomen. I feel that it saved me a lot of time and frustration. On my own I had already gone down a lot of dead ends. I was totally worth the money I spent and now I have a good voice even before going full time. A number of them work via skype too.

Could you explain how they work and long it took you?

We had somewhere around 12, 1 hour appointments and she charged $65 per visit. I saw her in person. We met every week for a while then every other week. At first she explained what made a feminine sounding voice and the things that I needed to accomplish that. I would try a feminine voice that she would record. I would either read something or just make conservation. She would then have me work on keeping the correct tension in my throat, the right pitch, keeping my jaw loose or not moving my tongue to far forward. We would listen to the recording and see how it sounded and what I could improve. We touched on expressiveness, pitch variation and mannerisms but they just seemed to come together without trying.

The really helpful part was that if I heard something I didn't like she knew what wasn't right and told me what I needed to work on. If something sounded good she knew how I was doing it and could help me keep doing the right things.

Between appointments I would practice and do the exercises she would give me.

I usually showed up right after work so I was always in guy mode but she didn't care. I was added by my female name and treated as a woman the whole time. It was a very positive experience and I feel fully confident in my voice for when I do go full time.

Wow that sounds like a very positive and lovely experience thanks for sharing  :D

Try using a piano, starting somewhere above middle C, and focus on one note at a time.  Hit the note over and over while talking monotone, then go up to the next note, continue doing it until you can't go up anyone, then work your way back down to your starting note.  Then practice going up and down notes with every word, to give you the dynamic inflection that women typically have.  I've helped a lot of people work on their voice, and I trained my own voice doing this... and today I can't sound male if I try.

Last year I went through the same issues.

I researched and google my but off. I tried Andrea Jame's "Finding your Feminine Voice" but it did very little for me.

So I downloaded a free spectrograph software where it measures your pitch. A man's pitch is around 150 hz and a womans is around 200-220 hz.

Then I bought a cheap digital recorder from Target for 15 bucks. A digital recorder wont lie to you and it will play back exactly what you sound like.

Then practice practice practice

I also bought the CDs from Kathe Perez's site to help and that really helped me a lot. Kathe Perez is one of the better voice therapist trainers. She interviewed me last week....ill link it:

http://youtu.be/pNVMMKZE4N4 (http://youtu.be/pNVMMKZE4N4)  <-- Part One
http://youtu.be/Yc-MnWNXEO8 (http://youtu.be/Yc-MnWNXEO8)  <-- Part Two
http://youtu.be/m4OyEAxKI_A (http://youtu.be/m4OyEAxKI_A)   <-- Part Three

But yeah, it takes a lot of practice. So while you practice your pitch on the spectograph then you practice your reflections and your melodic intonations.  If you have any questions PM me

Thanks girls but i am just scared to start because my voice isnt to deep but i never have tried or even know how to heighten my pitch so i think i will try Hannah's idea i mean its expensive but the best way to learn when you dont own a piano and cant do stuff by myself without feeling silly.

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 12, 2011, 02:22:32 PM
Thanks girls but i am just scared to start because my voice isnt to deep but i never have tried or even know how to heighten my pitch so i think i will try Hannah's idea i mean its expensive but the best way to learn when you dont own a piano and cant do stuff by myself without feeling silly.

Its not permanent. You can practice your pitch and then switch back. It only becomes harder once you go fulltime and you are using the voice 24/7.

Plus, training your voice doesn't have to be expensive.

I sound just like a girl and I only spent 50 bucks total on everything....and I never used a piano.

True :D and the sooner i start the sooner i can use it when not at school :D

There is a lot of free stuff on youtube and the net. You really have nothing to lose trying these things. If you aren't making progress or get stuck a voice coach can get you headed in the right direction. I've spoken with many people that have succeed with the various programs. You can always start cheap and get more expensive if you need to.

Very very true

Quote from: Annah on July 12, 2011, 02:25:51 PM
Its not permanent. You can practice your pitch and then switch back. It only becomes harder once you go fulltime and you are using the voice 24/7.

Plus, training your voice doesn't have to be expensive.

I sound just like a girl and I only spent 50 bucks total on everything....and I never used a piano.

Can we hear a recording of your voice?

Edit: Nvm.

I dont even know how to add a picture to a message if you can tell me how to add images and a recording then sure  :D :D :D :D

Quote from: fusion_cannon88 on July 12, 2011, 03:19:42 PM
Can we hear a recording of your voice?

Edit: Nvm.

yeah, i got a length youtube channel.

If you look at the very earliest of my videos you can actually hear my voice progression and how it evolved

Don't worry too much about your voice.  Humans have visual primacy.  If you look like a woman, nobody will notice your voice.  I'm not saying don't work your voice, or it's not important.  I am saying, don't let it be a dealbreaker.

dont waste your time or money on voice coaches or anything else.  just experiment with your voice, go thru different pitches the same way a singer would do.  Once you find it, it's rather easy to keep it 24/7.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 12, 2011, 11:47:03 PM
dont waste your time or money on voice coaches or anything else.  just experiment with your voice, go thru different pitches the same way a singer would do.  Once you find it, it's rather easy to keep it 24/7.

I get frustrated with comments like this. There are transwomen who have achieved good voices that can't maintain them so they seek surgery. I was able to achieve my goal with a voice coach, who is a speech pathologist, where I could not on my own. I did not waste my money. Not everyone has the same goal nor takes the same path.

I agree that trying on your own is a good way to start, it's the way I started but don't discount getting help when you need it.

Put your claws away Hannah i never intended this topic to make anyone annoy anyone  :D :D :-* now then i agree with Hannah because i know someone who has such a deep voice nothing has worked of yet and its been 5 years but anyways anyone got a good place to start with my voice ? Or should i follow a video word for word? :-\

I'm seeing a speech pathologist. I liken it to any field in which professionals practice. I can do my own plumbing, but what takes me hours and hours will usually take a professional a lot less time. There's also the risk that I, through a lack of understanding, actually do damage. I don't like extended analogies, suffice to say some people find success doing it themselves quickly, some take a lot longer than they would had they sought professional help and some develop speech disorders or tend to sound a little forced and unnatural.

That said I'm sure some have sought the help of speech pathologist where they needn't have (so I suppose that would be considered a wate of money) and some have seen speech pathologists who haven't helped but my strong preference would be to seek professional help.

I think voice is paramount to gender, one of the main differentiators between the genders.

Hmmm ok how expensive are these voice people?

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 13, 2011, 09:57:49 AM
I really have to disagree. Passing is neck up - voice and face. If either is off, the chance you'll be clocked goes way way up.

i completely agree and thanks hmmm i will have to see if i can find one in my area who is worth the price

Try to find that part of your voice where it goes from your normal, male sounding voice (modal voice) to that high pitched, cartooney voice (falsetto).  When you're at falsetto, try saying "ahhh" for a second at a time, slowly tightening the top part of your voice.  Next, try moving just the top part of your voice down, without bringing in the bottom part of your voice.  It will feel rather uncomfortable at first, but as you keep doing it, you should be able to hold the voice longer and longer.

Next, when you think you have a decent tone, try talking a bit with that voice.  Try to make sure that your voice doesn't get any lower than around the middle of your voice.  A good way to do it is to have it crackle; like say when you're speaking with your normal voice and you're speaking quietly and low, it will make some kind of crackling noise.  Try to keep that crackle around the middle of your voice instead of the bottom, as eventually.

And after that, record yourself talking, experiment a bit, try to remember the things you tried that you shouldn't do, and just keep working at it.  Also, a good way to practice is to call or skype a friend that knows your transitioning, and just try to speak with a female voice once you have enough confidence. 

Also, I love your avatar!  ^^

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 13, 2011, 09:41:32 AM
Hmmm ok how expensive are these voice people?

My voice instructor was about 80 dollars. But it wasn't face to face.

Quote from: GinaDouglas on July 12, 2011, 11:35:07 PM
Don't worry too much about your voice.  Humans have visual primacy.  If you look like a woman, nobody will notice your voice.  I'm not saying don't work your voice, or it's not important.  I am saying, don't let it be a dealbreaker.

I completely disagree with this. You could look like a super model and soon as you open your mouth:   *clocked*.

The two most important assets to passing, in my opinion is 1. Voice 2. Hair followed by 3. Face

Voice will always be the deal breaker.

If you are borderline passing and if your voice is very feminine they will give you the benefit of the doubt. If you look like Selena Gomez and your voice sounds like Mr Bean, then they will def know. I went with a transfriend of mine to a diner last semester and she was absolutely gorgeous. You would never have known she was born physically male. However, as soon as she started to speak to the waitress, the waitress had this "OMG!" expression. I've seen it time and time again....even in trans chat sites that has the option of video chat.

If you do not want to get clocked or if getting clocked bothers you then voice is one of the most important things to change.

I know girls who don't care if they get clocked and the don't work on their voice. It's their choice.

Quote from: toxicblue on July 13, 2011, 11:45:03 AM
Also, I love your avatar!  ^^

Awwww thanks sweetie

Quote from: Annah on July 13, 2011, 11:51:08 AM
I completely disagree with this. You could look like a super model and soon as you open your mouth:   *clocked*.

Thats true i remember last Halloween i went as a girl and most people said are you a boy or girl i think girl but i aint sure then i spoke and they said oh haha boy right so its true voice is important specially when you are like me trying to remove your past from yourself.

Thats why i started this topic i want to get my voice over and done with so i can not worry  :D :D :D :D :D :D

right. That's what I stated.  Pitch is only one step of many but an important step nevertheless.

i still say save your money and experiment yourself.  if you still need help finding it, i'm sure there are plenty of videos on youtube.

Quote from: Annah on July 13, 2011, 11:51:08 AM
I completely disagree with this. You could look like a super model and soon as you open your mouth:   *clocked*.

The two most important assets to passing, in my opinion is 1. Voice 2. Hair followed by 3. Face

Voice will always be the deal breaker.

that isnt entirely true and I'd have to say I disagree.  Look at Ann Curry on the Today show, she doesnt sound that much different than Jack Nicholson yet nobody doubts shes a woman.  Hair, look at Sinead O'Conner's or lack of....nobody doubts she's a woman.
To me, the most important thing in passing is your own self confidence and level of comfort in your own skin.

Girls no fighting i believe in peace so please Claws away and lets settle on the fact everyone has diffrent preferences ? Okay? hehe  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :-* :-* :-* :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'm not saying that you can sound like the announcer on Laugh-In and still pass.  I'm saying that, when you have the whole package right, a questionable voice is not a deal-breaker.  That is more the case, as you get older, as many women's voices get deeper with age.

It's not really about pitch though.  It's about timbre.  You don't have the right anatomy to hit a women's timbre, so nobody's voice is ever really female, only passably so.  So get over it and get used to it and do your best.

A voice coach, a speech therapist; I'm sure they can help anyone have a better voice.  Like anything else, it's a cost/benefit analysis unique to each individual.

A few other things to consider are:

Other people are more likely to give you away than when you are alone.  Annah, you're not doing your friend any favors by watching how people react to her.  They see you watching them, that makes them suspicious.

Scientific studies indicate that the most common gendering cues are:

At a distance: hip-to-waist ratio

Up close: eyebrows

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 13, 2011, 02:58:33 PM
i still say save your money and experiment yourself.  if you still need help finding it, i'm sure there are plenty of videos on youtube.
that isnt entirely true and I'd have to say I disagree.  Look at Ann Curry on the Today show, she doesnt sound that much different than Jack Nicholson yet nobody doubts shes a woman.  Hair, look at Sinead O'Conner's or lack of....nobody doubts she's a woman.
To me, the most important thing in passing is your own self confidence and level of comfort in your own skin.

Ann Curry doesnt sound like Jack Nicholson lol.  Even low pitch women still sound feminine because of their other reflections, timbre, etc etc.  I am talking about the girls who still talk just like they did prior to transition or the ones who talked "with the infeminate gay male tone."

No one doubts Sinead O Conner is a woman because she also have very feminine features and a feminine voice. Sinead also has a feminine hairline...even when she did have her hair shaven.

Also a bald woman will have her facial features accentuated because those will stand out. A genetically born male who transitions does not have those features, so yes, hair is very important. A transwoman with a high receding forehead will have an easier time getting clocked. A woman with a very masculine voice will have an easier time getting clocked.  It's not my opinion...its factual.

I have never met a transgirl who talked masculine who had a good time passing. 

Quote from: GinaDouglas on July 13, 2011, 03:36:52 PM
A few other things to consider are:

Other people are more likely to give you away than when you are alone.  Annah, you're not doing your friend any favors by watching how people react to her.  They see you watching them, that makes them suspicious.

I didnt go out of my way to make sure people had reacted to her....you have to look at the waitress when you order your meal.

QuoteAt a distance: hip-to-waist ratio

Up close: eyebrows

I agree with this. This is way I usually tell transgirls to stay away from skin tight mini skirts.

Also up close there are many more factors that play than eyebrows...even tho eyebrows is a big part of it.

Ooookkkkaayyyy, Why not! Here is my voice on a video recently recorded. I was talking to my cat, I didn't record it with the intention of really showing it to anybody, but it's a good demonstration of where I got my voice to. I'll see about creating an extensive writeup about the various steps to working on your voice.

Cat Lick Attack!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9HNCpFqCzc#)

WTH is getting clocked?

Quote from: Annah on July 13, 2011, 04:22:34 PM
Ann Curry doesnt sound like Jack Nicholson lol.  Even low pitch women still sound feminine because of their other reflections, timbre, etc etc.  I am talking about the girls who still talk just like they did prior to transition or the ones who talked "with the infeminate gay male tone."

No one doubts Sinead O Conner is a woman because she also have very feminine features and a feminine voice. Sinead also has a feminine hairline...even when she did have her hair shaven.

Also a bald woman will have her facial features accentuated because those will stand out. A genetically born male who transitions does not have those features, so yes, hair is very important. A transwoman with a high receding forehead will have an easier time getting clocked. A woman with a very masculine voice will have an easier time getting clocked.  It's not my opinion...its factual.

I have never met a transgirl who talked masculine who had a good time passing.

we can agree to disagree but it's my opinion that voice then hair is not the key to passing.  its my opinion that first is your level of self confidence.  if you're confident in your ability to pass and you dont doubt yourself, others will not either.  then if anything, your overall general appearance.  We see each other long before we hear each other.
I'm speaking on personal experience.  my own voice is not feminine nor is it masculine.....and i have no problems with passing.

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 13, 2011, 06:49:39 PM
Getting clocked = seen as trans. Another way of saying "being read" or "failing to pass."

guess i get clocked all the time because I make absolutely no secrets about who i am or who i used to be......

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 13, 2011, 06:53:30 PM
guess i get clocked all the time because I make absolutely no secrets about who i am or who i used to be......

It's in reference to strangers would someone know you were trans upon your first meeting or would they think your an ordinary woman until you tell them otherwise.

Passing is important least to me, It's the one very effective defense I have against some very dangerous people. Best chance I have in a job interview to be judged on my caliber not my minority status, It also protects me from the mockery I got before when I was ambiguous in presentation.

I'm lucky on many fronts in regards to this, but it was also hard work voice was my #1 priority. and the effort paid off with me.

Quote from: pebbles on July 13, 2011, 07:01:43 PM
It's in reference to strangers would someone know you were trans upon your first meeting or would they think your an ordinary woman until you tell them otherwise.

Passing is important least to me, It's the one very effective defense I have against some very dangerous people. Best chance I have in a job interview to be judged on my caliber not my minority status, It also protects me from the mockery I got before when I was ambiguous in presentation.

I'm lucky on many fronts in regards to this, but it was also hard work voice was my #1 priority. and the effort paid off with me.

dont get me wrong, passing is important.......but to me, I dont care about what others say, think or do.  I dress, do my hair, nails, toenails, makeup.....everything, I do for me...to make me feel good and better about me, not to try and please anybody else. but that's just me. 

A feminine voice is as important as any other aspect when you're talking about passing and blending in with the public. Most of us are not gifted with the privilege of transitioning early and often times deal with our voices dropping. If we want to blend in with the public, and not get stared at as soon as a word comes out of our mouth, then it is our obligation to adjust ourselves to some amount of "acceptable standard". This includes the overall image you project from your appearance, to your mannerisms to your voice and speech patterns.

Now with that said, you can adjust yourself to an "acceptable standard" and still be unique. In my experience the acceptable standard is actually quite wide and you only need to fit into this standard with the majority of your presentation for the general public to put you on your desired side of the gender binary.

There are a number of things to consider. Your appearance, your mannerisms and your voice. In my experience, you need to meet about 2.5 of these 3 criteria to pass. For instance, if you have a feminine appearance and mannerisms, but you have a manly voice, it's going to be a lot harder to pass; if you are able to work up to at least an androgynous voice, basically to the point to where people can't tell what you are on the phone, then you should be able to pass without much problem. Granted, it's more complicated because each of those 3 points are quite intricate and complex.

---

Your appearance; hair, eyebrows, facial hair, clothing; these are the 4 biggest things you can address to passing based on your appearance.

Long, feminine hair styles really transform the entire face. Big bushy eyebrows are not characteristic of a woman's general appearance. Facial hair, obvious one there. Clothes are VITALLY important, picking clothes that can work with your body, even creating a faux shape can give you the appearance of having hips, even if you don't. Not all clothes work for all people; the certain style you like may not be flattering to your body shape. Tight clothing is often the most difficult to get away with; while clothes that are too baggy kind of makes you look more masculine. Experiment, play around, find your middle ground, when you do find the right article of clothing, it will SCREAM at you when you wear it.

---

Your mannerisms; walk, sit, standing idle, talking with your hands, etc. ; are all subtle (and perhaps not so subtle) queues that people pick up on. Things like avoiding slouching, keeping your legs closed or crossing them over at the knee, walking with shorter strides; these are all small things that can add up. If you walk with large strides and with a heavy foot, you'll look like a guy. Spreading your legs while sitting is a nasty habit that I see a lot of transgirls do.

---

Now we're at the meat of this write-up.
Your VOICE; resonance, pitch, consistency, loudness; 4 things, in order, that are vital to getting a really feminine voice. I'm going to try to explain each of these points as best I can.

Resonance is absolutely, 100%, without a doubt the most important part of your voice. If you raise your pitch without addressing your resonance, you'll just sound like a man with a high pitched voice. 75% of the voice is resonance, or lack thereof, and the rest is pitch and projection (loudness).

It doesn't matter if you have a low voice, some women have lower voices, and you can have a low voice and still sound feminine. There is a certain pure tone that a lot of women have regardless of their pitch and the reason for that is RESONANCE! Okay, so are you tired of me talking about resonance? Tough! Let's talk about how you can fix it!

So to get the resonance you need to sound feminine is to stop talking from your chest, and to start resonating from your head. Sounds easy, right? It is simple, but it isn't necessarily easy. It's hard because getting out of your chest resonance can be quite challenging, and keeping it in your head resonance takes a bit of muscle strength. I know for me, this was the hardest step for me to tackle. Let's talk about how we can get into your head resonance.

A lot of videos and tutorials online may tell you to go into your falsetto and sound like Mickey Mouse, then bring it down, and soften it. That never worked for me. It may work for you, and it's worth giving a try, I'll post some links at the bottom of this write-up for how to do this. For me, getting out of my chest voice involved singing at my upper range. When you do this you'll feel your larynx (Adam's apple) raise up to a higher position in your throat, this is where it needs to be. Another way was to try to sound surprised, think of when someone surprises you with tickets to a concert and you're saying in an excited voice, "Wow, Thank you for the tickets! These are super mega totally cool!!" You may feel your larynx rise when you talk like that, pay attention to this feeling and try to raise the larynx even further to reduce the resonance.

When you try to sing, find someone who is at the upper end of your range but doesn't make you strain too hard or cause your voice to "crack" too much. After a few songs you may feel your voice getting tired, this is normal. What is happening is the muscles which raise your larynx and tighten your vocal chords are weak, and like any other muscle they need to be strengthened. This brings me to my next point.

Practice is vital because it adds much needed strength to your muscles. If you remember, consistency was one of the 4 points I brought up on how to work on your voice. Practice will bring consistency. As you strengthen your muscles, you will also get a higher range because as your muscles get stronger you can pull your vocal chords tighter and get higher pitches, much like a guitar string.

Pitch is an easy part to address. After you tackle resonance, just play with the pitch and get to something that you think sounds good. Be careful not to get too high, because girls are very erratic with the pitch of their voice.  Girls put emphasis on certain words and statements by using pitch variations, while guys tend to project louder while being more monotone. Think of the differences between guys and girls when they say, "What a cute kitty/cat!" Girls will put an emphasis on pitch and it almost sounds like they're singing. While guys tend say it more quickly and to the point, while putting emphasis on certain words like "cute" by saying it louder.

Girl's will also elongate words of the sentence, for instance when saying "What a cute kitty!", girls may elongate the Y at the end of "kitty", so it may sound more like "kittyyyyyy-". This may be a cliché, but it does tend to be true for a lot "standard" girls.

Loudness/Project your voice. Another problem I had for a while was I had a habit of talking a bit too softly. This has a tendency to sound "fake". Just try to talk louder while maintaining your resonance and pitch. It's not too challenging, but it is something you need to be conscious of.

---

I have a few extra tips about your voice.

Record yourself. I know you didn't want to hear this, but it's super important, and it can REALLY help you. I've named a condition that we all feel when we record ourselves, the "Butthole Complex"; because you feel like a butthole when you hear yourself. But it is really really important to do, the reason it's so important is because you need to hear yourself outside of your head. When you talk, your sense of how you sound is flavored because your voice is resonating directly into your ears. Recording yourself is VITAL.

Everything is cute or sad. Lots of "aww"s, girls do it ALL THE TIME. When somebody says something, just say, "awww". If you see a bug clinging to life on your windshield as you drive 85mph down the highway, just say "aww" (and laugh a little because it's funny!).

After a while, when you get adjusted to your new voice and you become accustom to talking in your higher resonance, slightly higher pitch, and projecting your voice, you'll feel your voice sort-of click into place. This is hard to explain, it may have something to do with muscle memory. Once you get to that point, you'll find that you have a new lower range while maintaining this voice, you may not be able to get down to your overall low while in this voice, because this voice has its own unique range. This is something I've personally experienced, but I don't know if many others experience this.

When I try to talk at a lower range while in my preferred voice, my voice cracks and I can't get any lower. It's a different feeling than trying to drop down to my lower range while in falsetto.

Last suggestion I'm going to give is how you can practice talking to strengthen your muscles. I do suggest the use of a spectrogram. This link (http://www.genderlife.com/products-page/setting-up-the-spectrogram) will give you information on where you can get one, how to set it up, and how to use it. The software is free and it can be a valuable tool for training purposes. It can show you where your voice is sitting as far as pitch and it can help keep you at a proper range, because a lot of times your voice drops over extended use.

---

Finally here are the links I said I'd give you.

• CandiFLA Voice 1 (http://youtu.be/zRhit3CGMeA)
• CandiFLA Voice 2 (http://youtu.be/ibJFGRMYPCc)
• CandiFLA Voice 3 (http://youtu.be/qbaj4tIX1kw)
• CandiFLA Voice 4 (http://youtu.be/BaxxEyZBgR4)
• CandiFLA Voice 5 (http://youtu.be/TXoaCCESpec)
• CandiFLA Voice 6 (http://youtu.be/GExTkifIxS4)
• CandiFLA Voice 7 (http://youtu.be/bJZjcKYOQr0)
• CandiFLA Voice 8 (http://youtu.be/9jniOOlVBJg)
• CandiFLA Voice 9 (http://youtu.be/s7qSJ19f_QU)
• CandiFLA Voice 10 (http://youtu.be/EeBwNWETJ5o)
• CandiFLA Voice 11 (http://youtu.be/O8AvdUoGD7g)
• CandiFLA Voice 12 (http://youtu.be/sgP9D3Ki9r8)
• CandiFLA Voice 13 (http://youtu.be/04ONx9lRJPE)
• CandiFLA Voice 14 (http://youtu.be/8nfr5gBFrVs)
• CandiFLA Voice 15 (http://youtu.be/E_vPuOX8fqI)

Karmatic1110 Voice Video (http://youtu.be/ciWIzpW_X20)
This one helped me a lot.


Hope this helps someone, took me a while to put together.

Quote from: Samantharz on July 13, 2011, 09:11:19 PM

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Your appearance; hair, eyebrows, facial hair, clothing; these are the 4 biggest things you can address to passing based on your appearance.

Long, feminine hair styles really transform the entire face. Big bushy eyebrows are not characteristic of a woman's general appearance. Facial hair, obvious one there. Clothes are VITALLY important, picking clothes that can work with your body, even creating a faux shape can give you the appearance of having hips, even if you don't. Not all clothes work for all people; the certain style you like may not be flattering to your body shape. Tight clothing is often the most difficult to get away with; while clothes that are too baggy kind of makes you look more masculine. Experiment, play around, find your middle ground, when you do find the right article of clothing, it will SCREAM at you when you wear it.

---

Your mannerisms; walk, sit, standing idle, talking with your hands, etc. ; are all subtle (and perhaps not so subtle) queues that people pick up on. Things like avoiding slouching, keeping your legs closed or crossing them over at the knee, walking with shorter strides; these are all small things that can add up. If you walk with large strides and with a heavy foot, you'll look like a guy. Spreading your legs while sitting is a nasty habit that I see a lot of transgirls do.

---

Now we're at the meat of this write-up.
Your VOICE; resonance, pitch, consistency, loudness; 4 things, in order, that are vital to getting a really feminine voice. I'm going to try to explain each of these points as best I can.

Resonance is absolutely, 100%, without a doubt the most important part of your voice. If you raise your pitch without addressing your resonance, you'll just sound like a man with a high pitched voice. 75% of the voice is resonance, or lack thereof, and the rest is pitch and projection (loudness).

Ok wow amazing post if i could of given you a reward I so totally would hmm let me see
CLOTHING
That i have covered i mean i have no muscle and well generally have a 'feminine structure" so clothing is no issue the hair stuff i go to a schooll wear boys may not have medium lengh hair so therefore no long hair. and i need to hide me from everyone so eyebrows are bushy.

MANNERISMS
Gosh recently i have worked on this and well gladly i walk up straight never slough unless sad.
sadly hard to break legs wide open but i will!!
i walk in little strides a lot and when i stand still i have always just swayed side to side.
I talk with my hands to the point i dont think about it , it just is natural.
Most of this stuff is becoming natural i think in a few months i couldnt do this stuff like a boy even if i wanted lol

VOICE
I will get there soon like in the next month or so

Make up
Things like this you just must know and i will in time

AND thank you so much girls wow so many posts and every single one helped i am extremely thankful to each of you  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

My problem is my voice varies a lot i can be mistaken for a girl on the phone day to are you the head of the house sir and when i do listen i think i sound funny :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 14, 2011, 09:56:16 AM
And it isn't a mistake. That's who you are.  :)

I know its just the simplest way to explain that situation and lol true and hmmmm i never ever though of it like that you do bring up a great point :D :D :D

Well everyone sounds funny at first. You really need to train your muscles, after a while the sound comes more naturally.

My own method was a mix of what Samantha posted above and singing.  While singing, I kept picking songs that continuously pushed the boundaries of my voice.  And even though my voice is mostly where I want it, I still push it harder.

Then again, I've been a singer my entire life and this was nothing new. :laugh:

Meow at your cat. No seriously. Meow at your cat.

Quote from: Neko on July 14, 2011, 03:25:20 PM
Meow at your cat. No seriously. Meow at your cat.

This is spot on. My voice coach had me do this to get the correct tension in my throat to start with. The "me" part of meow is what you want. Just make sure you keep your jaw loose, hold the tension in your throat. This and pitch was the core of finding my voice. Everything else was refinement.

Quote from: Neko on July 14, 2011, 03:25:20 PM
Meow at your cat. No seriously. Meow at your cat.

Quote from: Hannah_Irene on July 14, 2011, 03:36:40 PM
This is spot on. My voice coach had me do this to get the correct tension in my throat to start with. The "me" part of meow is what you want. Just make sure you keep your jaw loose, hold the tension in your throat. This and pitch was the core of finding my voice. Everything else was refinement.

Very very good tips!

Quote from: Annah on July 13, 2011, 11:51:08 AMI completely disagree with this. You could look like a super model and soon as you open your mouth:   *clocked*.

I approach the membership desk, because apparently you need a Costco card to purchase the food from Costco, which is cash only. Anyway, I'm not particularly trying to pass, or even be perceived female at that particular moment. The gentleman at the counter asks me as I'm waiting for assistance, "Can I help you ma'am." The very second I open my mouth to speak he begins profusely apologizing, thinking he'd used the incorrect pronoun. Of course I told him he, "...got it right." And mimed a big smile in the air.

As Annah has stated, voice is a huge gender cue.

Quote from: Neko on July 14, 2011, 03:25:20 PM
Meow at your cat. No seriously. Meow at your cat.

ニャーーー

Hmm, I seem to be doing something wrong... still a clever trick. :angel:

Haha as i said earlier girls my voice varies like one day i can sound like a girl the next a boy i can't contoll it and people think its weird i agree i go from a highish pitch to deep am it just happens i have tried to controll it but that didnt work i ended up lossing my voice for a day but yea

Quote from: Neko on July 14, 2011, 03:25:20 PM
Meow at your cat. No seriously. Meow at your cat.

I do that everyday but there is over 27 different meow noises i make so could you try be more specific thank you  :D :D :D :D

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/transgender-thailands-got_n_836048.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/transgender-thailands-got_n_836048.html)

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 14, 2011, 09:28:35 AMi go to a schooll wear boys may not have medium lengh hair so therefore no long hair.

...Lolwat? Such sexism in a SCHOOL in 2011? Do they force skirts on women, too?

Quote from: A on July 16, 2011, 02:11:14 AM
...Lolwat? Such sexism in a SCHOOL in 2011? Do they force skirts on women, too?

Boys short hair - Grey pants, white long sleeve collar shirt, tie, blazer, black leather shoes, may not date another boy or act in a manner which promotes dislike to school _ ie be any bit feminine and dont come back to school.

Girls -open collar white shirt, navy skirt, long hair unless given permission to have short hair, may not date a girl, may not wear pants unless winter.

Uh, I meant that as a joke. You're serious? Run away. Is it even legal?

Haha just saying  :D :D :D Catholic church = Zoey cant live  :( :( stupid school haha but yea really i remember a case where a boy asked to take a boy to prom and wasnt allowed to go to it. even if he took a girl because he was gay i mean seriously

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 16, 2011, 04:47:36 AM
Haha just saying  :D :D :D Catholic church = Zoey cant live  :( :( stupid school haha but yea really i remember a case where a boy asked to take a boy to prom and wasnt allowed to go to it. even if he took a girl because he was gay i mean seriously

I'm sorry you have to deal with that Zoey. It's really hard to live in a system that is so strict about gender roles. That's kinda the way it was when I was growing up. Just make sure that you get an education, it wil really help you later on.

Hugs

Hehe i know thanks :)  :D :D gosh i know its off topic but university seeming i am gonna go full time i hope as go to uni should i apply are Zoey or boy me cause i dont want to be sued....

Sue your school for violation of a ton of basic human rights. Then worry about getting sued. :D

Anyway, for your question, no, it is not wise to apply as Zoey unless you have a special arrangement with the university's directors (which is possible, though, given they are understanding). You should get your name officially changed before that.

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 16, 2011, 05:39:30 AM
Hehe i know thanks :)  :D :D gosh i know its off topic but university seeming i am gonna go full time i hope as go to uni should i apply are Zoey or boy me cause i dont want to be sued....

Unless you have your name officially changed and documents to support this, it will not be wise to apply under your girl name.  You probably won't be sued but it can cause problems with the admin process and student loans declined if the names on the documents don't match... its not worth the trouble.

Thanks girls and do i have to wait for SRS to change my official gender?

It depends on the country. In Canada, you just need a doctor to approve it for you. Gender marker (M/F) has to wait until SRS, though.

Quote from: A on July 16, 2011, 08:34:36 AM
It depends on the country. In Canada, you just need a doctor to approve it for you. Gender marker (M/F) has to wait until SRS, though.

Gender marker? You mean if a doctor says yip your a girl now you still cant tick your female?

Yup! A doctor's authorization is sufficient to get a female name, but the government won't recognise your gender until SRS. A bit weird, but it's not so bad, actually. You don't use the gender marker a lot or show it to people, and according to the experiences i have read, things go relatively well, usually. Then after 1 year of RLE, you're good for SRS and you can change the marker.

But this is only Canada. It varies between countries. Some countries change everything you want on one go, some don't even require your doctor's input, and some will require you to pay for a lawsuit to prove that you are female and should be given those changes, and a few don't even permit it unless you have a 100% proved physical anomaly. And it even varies between states in the US, I think.

Well as far as i know south Africa has the worlds best constitution for humans rights so i might be able to do it in one go  :D :D :D :D :D but then again i really hope so i couldn't imagine having to stay in the boys dorms at university :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

A your are very helpful thanks

Simple choice: choose an university whose dorms are mixed. Solved. Haha.

To know about your country's specifics, skim through the government's websites. There's probably an organism you can get information from that has the responsibility of those kinds of things. You can call and they'll give you all the info you want.

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 16, 2011, 10:58:18 AM
This is the relevant law for South Africa on gender change: http://www.info.gov.za/view/DownloadFileAction?id=68026 (http://www.info.gov.za/view/DownloadFileAction?id=68026)

Says that a "person whose sexual characteristics have been altered by surgical or medical treatment" can apply for altering their gender marker. I assume that means you can do it after a certain amount of time on HRT or after SRS. You should see if your prescribing doctor knows when you can do it. You also need a statement from a second medical doctor who will confirm the changes to your body.

This is the form to change your name: http://www.home-affairs.gov.za/PDF/civic/bi-85.pdf (http://www.home-affairs.gov.za/PDF/civic/bi-85.pdf) . There don't seem to be any requirements, though you do have to pay to do it. Probably would want to contact the Department of Home Affairs to check.

Quebec* It's a little different in each province.

Haha sorry pc wont open them but lol just like my country to make me pay for a name change lol ,you obviously dont live here because you would know better than to wait 45 min for them to answer your call then redirect you to the wrong department and by the 3rd hour of this we just give up.

But thank you

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 16, 2011, 11:38:31 AM
Sounds pretty much the same as it is here. The wonders of bureaucracy!

I guess you are having problems with the pdfs? If you go get Acrobat Reader that might fix it: http://get.adobe.com/uk/reader/otherversions/ (http://get.adobe.com/uk/reader/otherversions/)

Here is the website, so you can at least see the requirements, etc. http://www.home-affairs.gov.za/Amendments%20in%20IDBirth%20certificates.html (http://www.home-affairs.gov.za/Amendments%20in%20IDBirth%20certificates.html) .

And no problem. :)

Haha and thanks!! your to great  :D :D :D