Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey sorry to offend anyone

But most MTF websites are filled with images of girls well in such clothing the first thought that comes to mind is prostitute i mean pride is all good and stuff but be humble to i dont get they they must wear such mini dresses i can see the bulge in the panties and in such slutty posses i cant help but feel sorry for their parents. Am i wrong to think this again to if i am offend any ladies out there i just wanna know why these ladies do that?

I know what you mean... no I don't know why they do it either. :/

I read that they are transvestites who did it so long they just decided to become girls but they arent actually girls like us but maybe thats wrong i dont know thats why i am asking ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Not having seen many other sites, I can only offer guesses...but for some reason it seems that A LOT of MTF's tend not to dress appropriately either when they first come out or when they transition.  One of the common excuses has always been 'well we never got to wear this stuff when we were younger' which, of course misses the whole point of melding into the community by wearing age-appropriate clothing. 

Beyond that, cannot offer the first reason that remotely makes sense other than they are attention-whores who don't drawing focus to them and their situation...

On the other hand there are no shortages of WBW who wear the slut look almost like a uniform.

Purely possible but they arent giving us a bad name and by that i mean when we come out people think we like that and i have had that happen it took me a while to explain it to the person but sadly i still lost them . :embarrassed:

They can't give you a bad name unless you let them speak for you, and I don't see where they are trying to to speak for anyone else, much less everyone else.

i dont like em as it paints a bad picture about us.......which is why I always dress very professionally

When ever i cross dress i dress as i will when i am full time i dont have those slutty fetishes so i am confused why they do but i guess everyone is allowed to their style

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 13, 2011, 02:09:02 PM
But most MTF websites are filled with images of girls well in such clothing the first thought that comes to mind is prostitute

You mean the ones we see on Springer or in the supermarket tabloids?

A couple of years ago Julie and I popped in at the Be-All, mostly out of curiosity.  We went to the bar to get a drink but it was empty.  About an hour later the girls started pouring in.  We found out they were all coming back from the dinner finale.  Some girls were dressed like my grandmother, some were dressed very nicely and some were dressed like hookers.  One was about 50 yrs. old, wore this denim micro-mini and muffin top that beautifully exposed her beer belly.  And she flittered around the bar like a social butterfly but when she bent down to pick something up...  :o

But, you know what?  I look at old pics of me and I either laugh or completely deny it was ever me.  I didn't do the slut look but I sure needed lessons in how to dress. 

I dont think i will have that issue because i have a good fashion sense my friends want me to go into fashion and i would love to but it just is to unpredictable and i would die not being able to get my hormones. But still girls we need a reason for why they do it?

Unfortunately, the more fashion forward you are today they more rediculous you will look in 10 years when you look back!  lol

Quote from: JessicaH on July 13, 2011, 03:28:49 PM
Unfortunately, the more fashion forward you are today they more rediculous you will look in 10 years when you look back!  lol

the trick is to pick a style that transcends all fashion trends

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 13, 2011, 03:06:33 PM
You mean the ones we see on Springer or in the supermarket tabloids?

A couple of years ago Julie and I popped in at the Be-All, mostly out of curiosity.  We went to the bar to get a drink but it was empty.  About an hour later the girls started pouring in.  We found out they were all coming back from the dinner finale.  Some girls were dressed like my grandmother, some were dressed very nicely and some were dressed like hookers.  One was about 50 yrs. old, wore this denim micro-mini and muffin top that beautifully exposed her beer belly.  And she flittered around the bar like a social butterfly but when she bent down to pick something up...  :o

But, you know what?  I look at old pics of me and I either laugh or completely deny it was ever me.  I didn't do the slut look but I sure needed lessons in how to dress.

i wish the springer show never existed!

go into fashion

The notion, style, execution, design, planning and sales of 'Slut' have always been part of the rag trade.

There's a huge, messed-up undertow in our culture of "dressing to look available is how to be desirable."

So it's hardly surprising that a lot of trans women and cross dressers want to emulate that, given that the pop star/film star/catwalk crew marketing that fashion are a lot of people's role models for how you're supposed to look, to be a desirable woman.

Could be they are only selling the clothes that people want to buy.  To you it might scream 'available' but to them it just seems sexy and fun. 

We're talking about a spectrum, of course, so both are possible.

As a society (here in the usa) the word 'modesty' is seldom used anymore and many people just don't have any idea about it-just watch the tv and you will see how social 'mores' have changed. To a degree I have always been a bit shy and my mother taught me what modesty means. I try to emulate her because she really is a beautiful woman who grew up having almost nothing of her own and now she has 'style' but doesn't flaunt her attributes. I think it has a lot to do with how secure/insecure someone is.

But on the other hand, if I were 'smokin hot' and my face/cranial profile were a bit different-who knows if one of the slutty ones might have been me!

Randi 8)

it isn't prideful, not to me. it is just an old bad stereotype that is still carried over today. it represents the struggles of transwomen from many years ago who have ended up running away, living on the streets becoming prostitutes/strippers, because there was simply no other option for them. it pretty much highlights women as second class beings, but has turned into a fashion statement by some. it just makes it hard, because transsexuals would still get categorized as unclassy, crude, immoral, and many other words.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 13, 2011, 03:53:01 PM
i wish the springer show never existed!

jerry springer is about as realistic as the easter bunny.

I have known a couple of 'people' who were on 'The Jerry Springer Show' and they were paid to follow the script-idiots all if you ask me.

Randi

Honestly, anyone who has anything against dressing slutty is doing so out of jealousy. That's literally what it is, the jealousy is the root of the "Oh, that makes our culture look bad.", "Oh, that goes against my religion.", "Oh, I'm too humble and mature for that." No, if everyone here was hotter and sluttier, we'd all be a lot more financially better off. Industries that involve sexual appeal (acting, music, adult entertainment, prostitution, clothing modeling, marketing, ect ect), are by fact the highest paying industries in the country, which causes folks to be a heck of a lot more jealous. Who wouldn't be jealous of an attractive woman who also makes more money than some of us?

And then, "being humble" is the result of spending thousands of dollars to go to college and get into debt, only discover that the sleezebag who's doing pornos just because she's hot actually makes more money than you do at working at an account firm. There's really just such a pattern to it.

However, I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just not a fan of negative attitudes toward anything, I believe that people of any identity can dress as slutty as they want to if that's what makes them happy. There's no real psychological condition or syndrome behind it, it's a form of expression that, quite frankly, tends to make money, tends to get you a lot of sex, and tends to make you have a pretty huge social life. Now, as with any lifestyle, there's possible ramifications of being a flashy, sexual person, but there's ramifications of driving a car; driving a car almost killed me once and managed to injure my face severely to the point of reconstruction, being slutty never has.

It's all about bravery.  Seeing someone who passes as the other gender AND wants to flaunt herself...leaves a very optimistic image.  They're not afraid to look sexy, and in fact dare to do so deliberately.
---I think it's a pretty horrible way to find yourself to look up to someone, (it's about being yourself, not being super-attractive, right?) but I think that's what goes through the minds of the people congratulating.  Also, passing's relative.  If a person refuses to acknowledge apparent masculinity (because they think they won't be able to pass if they see transgenders and don't think they're passing) then it's relatively easier to pass even if you botch things up like on some of those slut piccies.

They're also happy to see it pulled off well, which similarly, is about the viewer as well as the viewed.

Edit: slight clarification and added last segment

Quote from: RhinoP on July 13, 2011, 07:56:09 PM
Honestly, anyone who has anything against dressing slutty is doing so out of jealousy. That's literally what it is, the jealousy is the root of the "Oh, that makes our culture look bad.", "Oh, that goes against my religion.", "Oh, I'm too humble and mature for that." No, if everyone here was hotter and sluttier, we'd all be a lot more financially better off. Industries that involve sexual appeal (acting, music, adult entertainment, prostitution, clothing modeling, marketing, ect ect), are by fact the highest paying industries in the country, which causes folks to be a heck of a lot more jealous. Who wouldn't be jealous of an attractive woman who also makes more money than some of us?

And then, "being humble" is the result of spending thousands of dollars to go to college and get into debt, only discover that the sleezebag who's doing pornos just because she's hot actually makes more money than you do at working at an account firm. There's really just such a pattern to it.

However, I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just not a fan of negative attitudes toward anything, I believe that people of any identity can dress as slutty as they want to if that's what makes them happy. There's no real psychological condition or syndrome behind it, it's a form of expression that, quite frankly, tends to make money, tends to get you a lot of sex, and tends to make you have a pretty huge social life. Now, as with any lifestyle, there's possible ramifications of being a flashy, sexual person, but there's ramifications of driving a car; driving a car almost killed me once and managed to injure my face severely to the point of reconstruction, being slutty never has.

you mean like a "hoochie mama?".....no thank you  :)

Quote from: FullMoon19 on July 13, 2011, 06:13:53 PM
jerry springer is about as realistic as the easter bunny.

I think you are seriously underestimating the merits of the Easter Bunny.  Oh wait, that's not right.  What I meant to say is:  you are seriously overestimating the merits of Jerry Springer.

One eras 'cool young kids' become tomorrow's "Hey Kids, get off of my lawn!" old men and women.

In olden days a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking,
But now, God knows,
Anything Goes.

Quote from: tekla on July 13, 2011, 11:05:41 PM
In olden days a glimpse of stocking
Was looked on as something shocking,
But now, God knows,
Anything Goes.

One of my favorite songs!! ;D

  They just have too much pride and they go overboard!  It is also the times that we live in. 
  10 years ago I tried to find a size 16 girls outfit for my special niece's birthday.  As I was going through the racks, I saw the little girl stuff in the smaller sizes, but whe I got to size 12, they turned into the "Brittany Spears" stuff only at the big name stores!  My niece's body has been distorted by her condition and is in a wheelchair with a drug pump implanted to keep down her seizures.  She'll never communicate or do anything a normal girl would do.  I finally found a couple of outfits at an Old Navy store.  I was wondering that are we pushing the little girls too early? 
  My sister said she has had the same problem finding stuff for her.
  Joelene

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 13, 2011, 02:09:02 PM
Hey sorry to offend anyone

But most MTF websites are filled with images of girls well in such clothing the first thought that comes to mind is prostitute i mean pride is all good and stuff but be humble to i dont get they they must wear such mini dresses i can see the bulge in the panties and in such slutty posses i cant help but feel sorry for their parents. Am i wrong to think this again to if i am offend any ladies out there i just wanna know why these ladies do that?

No dear, you are not offending anyone  :)  You are asking a legitimate question

Yes, there are trans folks like that and there is no shortage of smutty sites on the web
Yes, I do find them bothersome because I feel that they misrepresent the trans community... At least they don't represent the part of the trans community that I am interested in
Are they my problem? No

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 13, 2011, 02:09:02 PM
Hey sorry to offend anyone

But most MTF websites are filled with images of girls well in such clothing the first thought that comes to mind is prostitute i mean pride is all good and stuff but be humble to i dont get they they must wear such mini dresses i can see the bulge in the panties and in such slutty posses i cant help but feel sorry for their parents. Am i wrong to think this again to if i am offend any ladies out there i just wanna know why these ladies do that?

Oh, please. Do you have a facebook account? Get over yourself. Also, calling people prostitutes as though it's a bad thing isn't really nice, especially in a community that produces a disproportionate number of prostitutes and other sex workers (i.e., trans and other queer people).

Next time you have a question that you feel the need to prefix by saying "Dont want to offened any ladies but..." perhaps you should think of why it is you think the question is so offensive, and there you will have your answer.

Quote from: AbracaDebra on July 13, 2011, 05:39:28 PM
Thanks Sarah, and I thought I knew them all.  I've always used the term bio male or bio female.  :)

Screw that. I was born an infant, just like most people I know. I've met a few people who were born at age 40, but only a few. Also, I'm biological. Yup, 100% bio-female here. Oh, right, there are the dental fillings, but everything else is pure biology.

You're talking about [cis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender)) women and men, correct?

Look girls i never meant that i thought they were disgusting or anything i was curious to why i did it and all of you have answered that so thank you but i must disagree with some stuff like the fact i must be jealous of them please! i can fit into anything and i am sorry but people who cannot tell they are wearing stuff 10 sizes to small i couldnt even consider being like them. Then again another point it was fashion and they might of had to become prostitutes but then post those images surely you must feel shame for what you had to do to survive i mean go to any transsexual website that allows anyone to post i dare you and look at date s posted i have seen some of them been put up last year... Secondly do you really believe that prostitutes can afford to post on websites? Thirdly i can bet not one of you would want to flaunt what you were sadly given from birth. even though i still play my life as a boy i hide that i wouldnt dare where a dress so tight and short it may as well be called a loose sports bra. Again not intended to offend anyone sorry if this topic lead to that.

there could be many reasons - , my ex was a dancer for 4 years , the porn industry offers one thing that can comprimise a persons morals faster than greased lighting .. money. with the right look you can make money hand over fist. at the risk of never being taken seriously .
ive done a webcomic ( non porn )  and it had a decent readership small but there . i did one "porn comic " ( digital art no real people )  sold it though a web site and it sold 100 copys over night i should proably make more given how tight my budget is , but i digress , i suspect these people thrive on "being clocked" or the attention they recieve good and bad. my ex loved the money and the attention even though she never did anything more than dance down to a g-string , also a lot of these girls you see in ads and pics arent "real" they are actual females part of the time "packing" or have the pics altered if they are MTF then they are most likely pre op or never intend to have SRS they fall into the Exotic catagory .. anyway i just woke up and am rambling .. ill shut up now .. :o

LOve your avatar by the way Centcomm01

True true everyone has their reasons i suppose there is no such thing as a generalized reason.

thank you Zoey .. i like her too she fits my general outlook quite well and well i love her shoes :Snrks:.. now if the evil overlord up there had given me the same body /looks as her i would be a happy kitten!!!  love yours too

Hehe thanks

And i so agree killer heels!! I want a pair  :D :D :D

Though they do remind me of what we are talking about but only diff i could and would rock them because they suit my age thats why its not ironic i love something that i am questioning

Going through all the previous posts I miss the most OBVIOUS thing.

This *mostly* applies to older TGs but I have seen very "forward" like dressed 23 year olds too.

1) Once we go on E (HRT) the jig is up, and we go through second puberty.

2) Most girls (self included) LOVE to dress according to the feel of the day, right? It's a girlie/women/female thing. Of course going to work will restrict you quite a bit --- normally.

3) Going through puberty will make you feel a  bit (a lot?) hot (over-sexed), and your actual age does not factor into this FEELING. Now you want to dance more (even at 60+!!), and do all the other *foolish* teenage stuff, heels, mini, tight blouses and let it all hang out. That's what you see. Penned up sexual energy looking for an outlet - any outlet.

4) Thankfully this time passes far quicker then for any WBW (woman born woman) teeny, and when looking back, having done some REALLY fast growing up, most of us looked eh - well, over the top?

It's a pretty natural thing unless you be having a very repressed second puberty --- which sucks also.
Greetings,
Axelle

lucky girl .. *glare* * grins * oh to able to do those ages over again. i have somewhat of a fixation with shoes. on sl im called the shoe queen ( when im not called the prim nazi )
    its too bad my body is literally a cylinder im a perfect 39 / 39 / 39 AUUGH!!! on a 5'8" frame ... hoping that boobs and hrt might change that some along with rigorus excersise - before i made this choice i began not really caring about my body .. i pretty much dispised it and damage from paxil caused wieght gain and slowed down my metabloism and the list goes on .. according to my ex my legs are the best part of me so ill work with that .. still floundering with clothing that looks decent with my frame and doesnt look rediculous

Quote from: Axelle on July 14, 2011, 10:00:06 AM
Going through all the previous posts I miss the most OBVIOUS thing.

This *mostly* applies to older TGs but I have seen very "forward" like dressed 23 year olds too.

1) Once we go on E (HRT) the jig is up, and we go through second puberty.

2) Most girls (self included) LOVE to dress according to the feel of the day, right? It's a girlie/women/female thing. Of course going to work will restrict you quite a bit --- normally.

3) Going through puberty will make you feel a  bit (a lot?) hot (over-sexed), and your actual age does not factor into this FEELING. Now you want to dance more (even at 60+!!), and do all the other *foolish* teenage stuff, heels, mini, tight blouses and let it all hang out. That's what you see. Penned up sexual energy looking for an outlet - any outlet.

4) Thankfully this time passes far quicker then for any WBW (woman born woman) teeny, and when looking back, having done some REALLY fast growing up, most of us looked eh - well, over the top?

It's a pretty natural thing unless you be having a very repressed second puberty --- which sucks also.
Greetings,
Axelle

Hmmmm i agree i mean i have random thoughts and stuff like that i think you have actually brought a very very influential point into our like gossipy chat

Stare back vigorously

Haha i am called a sociopath because i have little compassion for what happens to boys and when is hurt i just glare at him. I dont know why its just fun. Now then we may have these random thoughts on how we want to dress and we have the human right to the freedom of expression but surely this also gives us the responsibility to express ourselves in a more family age restriction when posting images on a website that Young MTF's look at for guidance i remember being 10 and seeing those images and being completely worried i would become like that a 'SLut"

Quote from: LightBulbs on July 14, 2011, 01:40:02 PM
Because people here are really that jealous of the 50-odd, wrinkly, sunburnt, figureless, hyper-masculine "trans-women" who take half-naked pix of themselves in slutty outfits on flikr while getting a bunch of comments from pervy old men with very bad tastes.  ::)

I think your right but being a meani and sound like a "typical" male just saying that kind of comment annoys me

Well every sexist male i know says the same insulting words about older women and i did not start this topic for people who want to insult others so please dont post in my topics if your just gonna be a jerk. Every one is allowed to their opinion as long as you dont insult others with it.

i saw a trans float in philly pride where all these trans girls who had breast augmentations were dancing on the float flashing their breasts to everyone. The only reason why they didnt get arrested is because they had tassles on their nipples.

It was a very embarrassing site to see as I was in that parade a few spots down. I was like "Jesus, that is embarrassing"

See so pride to one person is embarrassment to another? or am i wrong to deduce that from all these comments?

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 14, 2011, 02:06:17 PM
See so pride to one person is embarrassment to another? or am i wrong to deduce that from all these comments?

I think you are right with that notion. What could be considered prideful to some is an embrassment to another.

Like for me, i would think it would be embarrassing to show your Vay jay jay on a parade float because you are prideful of your surgery.

I would be proud of my surgery too but you wont see me hiking up my skirt to show my world to everyone. It's just embarrassing and too eccentric for my tastes. Same rule applies for flashing your boobs to strangers.

Quote from: Annah on July 14, 2011, 02:11:42 PM
I think you are right with that notion. What could be considered prideful to some is an embrassment to another.

Like for me, i would think it would be embarrassing to show your Vay jay jay on a parade float because you are prideful of your surgery.

I would be proud of my surgery too but you wont see me hiking up my skirt to show my world to everyone. It's just embarrassing and too eccentric for my tastes. Same rule applies for flashing your boobs to strangers.

I think you just made the best summary of the whole topic thanks a lot Annah! :-* :-* :D :D :D :D

Quote from: RhinoP on July 13, 2011, 07:56:09 PM
Honestly, anyone who has anything against dressing slutty is doing so out of jealousy. That's literally what it is, the jealousy is the root of the "Oh, that makes our culture look bad.

Trust me, sweety. I am not jealous of this:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.peopleofwalmart.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F05%2F1402.jpg&hash=16d4204a07b9ad8ddfd7cbba9c81c19aa671386b)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft3.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcSgpl515xuMcfUwpfhFVPtZOHeacqIBjAHEzbvC2xw_ASln41rlZA&hash=02dbfbf6bc1e747a9f4990fd4a89308011455c5f)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.peopleofwalmart.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F05%2F1405.jpg&hash=3b5cff6fb555b33fdaaf78398a0f6d3a7459f9a8)

Quote from: Annah on July 14, 2011, 02:22:29 PM
Trust me, sweety. I am not jealous of this:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.peopleofwalmart.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F05%2F1402.jpg&hash=16d4204a07b9ad8ddfd7cbba9c81c19aa671386b)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft3.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcSgpl515xuMcfUwpfhFVPtZOHeacqIBjAHEzbvC2xw_ASln41rlZA&hash=02dbfbf6bc1e747a9f4990fd4a89308011455c5f)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.peopleofwalmart.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F05%2F1405.jpg&hash=3b5cff6fb555b33fdaaf78398a0f6d3a7459f9a8)

OMG and i thought you couldnt make me laugh more!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

snickers at the pix anna put up .. i just want to dress normally .. nice..simple .. not go all drag queen ROFL

Yeah, how dare they be unusual!  I'm ashamed to be associated with their ilk!  Their gender issues don't count! (am I getting it right?)

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 13, 2011, 02:09:02 PM
Hey sorry to offend anyone

But most MTF websites are filled with images of girls well in such clothing the first thought that comes to mind is prostitute i mean pride is all good and stuff but be humble to i dont get they they must wear such mini dresses i can see the bulge in the panties and in such slutty posses i cant help but feel sorry for their parents. Am i wrong to think this again to if i am offend any ladies out there i just wanna know why these ladies do that?

They are just exploring their femininity like any young woman would. Most girls go crazy when they are first introduced to make-up and clothes, just look at any group of teenage girls at a party. Just like girls become women and grow out of dressing that way so too do MTFs develop a more conservative style over time.

They are just exploring their identity. It wouldn't be my style but I have never been one for mad club parties and flashy colourful clothes. I have always been more conservative and serious. But I imagine I too will go through changes in my style as my female sides takes over and matures and developes.

Of course, if they are TV, then it is a different issue as TVs view themselves as men who dress for fun. But, with regard to MTFs once they are tired of the party they will tone it down.

Quote from: niamh on July 15, 2011, 11:10:28 AM
They are just exploring their femininity like any young woman would. Most girls go crazy when they are first introduced to make-up and clothes, just look at any group of teenage girls at a party. Just like girls become women and grow out of dressing that way so too do MTFs develop a more conservative style over time.

They are just exploring their identity. It wouldn't be my style but I have never been one for mad club parties and flashy colourful clothes. I have always been more conservative and serious. But I imagine I too will go through changes in my style as my female sides takes over and matures and developes.

Of course, if they are TV, then it is a different issue as TVs view themselves as men who dress for fun. But, with regard to MTFs once they are tired of the party they will tone it down.

Quote from: Kori on July 15, 2011, 11:02:07 AM
Yeah, how dare they be unusual!  I'm ashamed to be associated with their ilk!  Their gender issues don't count! (am I getting it right?)

Look i never meant it like that i am simply saying have your fun dress how you want but dont spam your images so much that when you type transsexual into google the first image that pops up is a girl dressed as a prostitute giving the complete wrong impression of us girls. People can do what they want i dont mind until they begin to over do it. We are all allowed to explore that is a given but girls you can not say that image of a not yet transitioning MTF in cloths to small and to reviling( in a kind of prostitute fashion) will do any good helping a Young and confused girl trying to discover herself? It is more likely to cause her to transition late because it caused her to much panic and fear.

But these are just my opinions

Looking back on my own life and seeing older pics of friends I think we all go through an attire related puberty.  And the older you are when you transition, the more out of style you can look as you work through this puberty.  Pre-transition I wore polo shirts most of the time, even at work on a construction site.  For bottoms it was either jeans or Dockers for pants and shorts when the weather and/or event permitted.

When I look back on my CD days (those days when I believed I'd never transition) there were times when I looked... well let's just say I had a bad hair day all over my body.  I wore too much makeup, like many teen girls do.  I wasn't very good with my hair (wig), like many teen girls.  I wore things too young for my age, as if I was a teenager.  But I missed growing up a teenage girl and turning into a 20 and 30 something woman.  It was like I had to experience the different stages before I could move to the next, even if it was just a day or so.

This particular puberty is on hyper-speed, at least it was for me.  Every picture I saw of me compelled me to make changes.  Somehow the mirror lies to us but pictures don't.  And with each change I moved through my puberty.  Today I'm right back where I was pre-transition, casual, comfortable clothing except it's female clothing and cut accordingly.  Put me in shorts and a T-shirt or tank top and sandals and I'm happy as a clam.

With real CDs (those who don't want to transition) the puberty time can be lengthened considerably depending on how much "dress up" time they get.  When I went to the 2004 Be All (still believing I was a CD) I met a lot of people who said that was the only time they got to dress up ALL YEAR!  It's pretty hard to make adjustments in your attire if you can only do it once a year.

But that's just two factions of the spectrum.  There are some who are into drag, some into achieving a shock value and some who just don't give a damn and wear whatever they like.  And that seems to be where the photographers like to focus and what the media likes to report.  "OMG!!!" sells a lot more than "Isn't that nice?"

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 13, 2011, 02:45:12 PM
i dont like em as it paints a bad picture about us.......which is why I always dress very professionally

So do natal females that wear those slutty clothes paint a bad picture of "professionally dressed" females as well? You do realize those clothes were not created for the sole purpose of being worn by cross dressers right?

How about all the born females in porn movies? Do you think born females feel that negatively reflects on them? Highly doubt it.

Just because some trans people are "drag queens" or others are into the slut look, doesn't affect me or my life. Unless of course I also did it as well.

Quote from: Stephe on July 15, 2011, 11:47:35 AM
So do natal females that wear those slutty clothes paint a bad picture of "professionally dressed" females as well?

badly dressed natal females that dresses slutty that are role models paints a bad picture in impressionable minds of teenagers.

Likewise, transfemales that dresses slutty paints a bad picture on impressionable people who already know very little about us.

When many of us (transmen and women) work in an environment where we are fulltime in our preferred gender and where our presentation is vital to how successful our interaction with our clients is, we must always be able show the public that we are not the stereotypical transpeople who wear latex micro miniskirts, thighhighs, and 5 inch stiletto heels. Because it is true that the average uneducated person (in regards to transsexual/->-bleeped-<-) views us as those who get dressed up in women's underwear and pantyhose as fetish.....many do not see us as who we truly are. When they see a transgender person dressed as a prostitute or if they see us on flicker doing wide open pantyhose leg shots or they see us in ->-bleeped-<- porn, that stereotype only strengthens.

So it does matter to a degree. It may not be important to you, but to those of us where are public image is our financial bread butter it is very important.

Transgender condition encompasses all spectrum of trans behavior. From crossdresser to full on transsexual woman, and then from highly educated, intellectuals to mere simple, down on luck folks. You will see everything, from well groomed, well mannered to slutty, even disgusting images all under trans, lady/boy, ect.
This is the reality, transgender community is just that community like any other, full of color and diversity, however tough we should learn to embrace it as it is, and be proud of being you, that often is hard within it self not to mention whole community.

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 15, 2011, 04:22:52 PM
The first image I get from google for "transsexual" is of Kim Petras, who is adorable and is hardly dressed in revealing clothing.

When I type in "transsexual" the first image I get is a girl with a black bra pushed down so you can see her nipples.

I got a listing of dating and porno sites and of coarse Wikipedia and the Free dictionary was there with their ideals of what transsexuals are  :P

When I googled 'transsexual' I got (amongst other things) this headline:

Susan Sarandon Vomited On By A Transsexual

Ah, journalism...

Quote from: Sarah7 on July 15, 2011, 04:22:52 PM
The first image I get from google for "transsexual" is of Kim Petras, who is adorable and is hardly dressed in revealing clothing. Not that I'd personally care either way.

All depends see i did it years ago it also depends on google settings and it doesnt matter gosh look agreed any one can be who they want but dont spam yourself on websites is all i am saying. And i really only started this topic because i commented on a picture saying shes dressed very slutty and then people swore and stuff and told me its pride and i wanted to see everyone opinion on that and well i have  :D and simply put not everyone thinks that is pride.

Quote from: Annah on July 15, 2011, 01:34:50 PM
badly dressed natal females that dresses slutty that are role models paints a bad picture in impressionable minds of teenagers.

Likewise, transfemales that dresses slutty paints a bad picture on impressionable people who already know very little about us.

How do these two relate whatsoever? So if some women dress slutty that means teenagers then believe ALL women are slutty? I think most are smarter than this. Maybe YOU think it is OK to try to control other people's behavior but I sure don't. People can and will do what they want and you and this other person whining about it aren't gonna change anything. If anything it sounds like BOTH of you only want to HIDE that you are trans from the world and so why would you even care?

Quote from: Annah on July 15, 2011, 06:16:48 PM
When I type in "transsexual" the first image I get is a girl with a black bra pushed down so you can see her nipples.

http://www.google.com/search?q=transsexual&hl=en&biw=1920&bih=1080&prmd=ivnslb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=9qQhToy1JdK5tgeHsu23Aw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CCIQ_AUoAQ (http://www.google.com/search?q=transsexual&hl=en&biw=1920&bih=1080&prmd=ivnslb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=9qQhToy1JdK5tgeHsu23Aw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CCIQ_AUoAQ)

Maybe you can post the link you used to find slutty porn shot as first hit in images? Mine shows what looks to me like a variety of "normal" women..

STOP IT STOP FIGHTING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I started this to find out are slutty t-girls being prideful and if so why are born women slutty and not prideful when dressed like that. now ladies please just answer that rather then fighting over something you will never agree apon and i would have been the reason for a few lovely ladies to hate each other and i dont want that so please just answer the topics title, 75 posts and no real answer yet just fight after fight after another fight sheesh. wheres the love????????????????

i remember the first time i was searching for a serious support site for transsexuals, and i had to scroll through alot of "->-bleeped-<- hookups." the moral of the story is, if a site uses the words "->-bleeped-<- or ->-bleeped-<-," it is going to involve degrading and a lack of respect.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on July 16, 2011, 11:25:14 AM
i remember the first time i was searching for a serious support site for transsexuals, and i had to scroll through alot of "->-bleeped-<- hookups." the moral of the story is, if a site uses the words "->-bleeped-<- or ->-bleeped-<-," it is going to involve degrading and a lack of respect.

Finally a good  none argumentative comment thank you.

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 16, 2011, 11:27:34 AM
Finally a good  none argumentative comment thank you.

your welcome. personally, i really don't believe in being argumentative anymore. being argumentative indicates an insecurity with ones own standpoint. what i say just is what it is whether you love it or hate it.

Girls i put up a poll please vote and lets finish up this topic  :D :D :D :D :D

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 16, 2011, 09:59:52 AM
I started this to find out are slutty t-girls being prideful and if so why are born women slutty and not prideful when dressed like that.

You assume if a born woman dresses slutty she is not "prideful" or is ashamed of looking that way. I think if a -person- dresses slutty she wants to appear to be slutty and it's just that simple. I don't see any difference between a slutty dressed trans woman and a slutty dressed born woman.

Quote from: Stephe on July 16, 2011, 09:47:45 AM
How do these two relate whatsoever? So if some women dress slutty that means teenagers then believe ALL women are slutty? I think most are smarter than this. Maybe YOU think it is OK to try to control other people's behavior but I sure don't. People can and will do what they want and you and this other person whining about it aren't gonna change anything. If anything it sounds like BOTH of you only want to HIDE that you are trans from the world and so why would you even care?

people are impressionable....especially towards people who are stereotyped. It's a fact.

Also you are not qualified nor do you know me enought to make an accusation that I "hide" that i am trans from the world.

1. I speak at human sexuality classes in colleges about trans sexuality and gender
2. I intern at a church who knows i am transsexual
3. I am class councilwoman of my seminary on Diversity
4. I am part of the HRC where I represent transgender/transsexuals at their functions and parties

So don't lecture me about hiding. But you seem to personally attack anyone who disagrees with you. I will not stoop to that level.

Please, everyone, let's just calm down and take a deep breath. :)  Life is good, birds are still pretty, the sky is still blue, and that's what really matters!  That and staying on-topic, which we're decidedly off of now. :laugh:

wow yea i agree there with zoe we all need to calm down and take a deep breath. also if a girl (trans or born) want to dress slutty let them all they are doing is expressing their self you think when they put on those cloths they are thinking they want to put an image out there for everyone or are they just thinking hey i wanna be alittle free and frisky today. and you cant say you havent done it atleast once even me. there is days i have dresses (as you put it slutty or prideful) free and frisky. yes normally i wear jeans and a shirt but there are days i wanna put on my tight mini leather skirt with net stocking and heels and black bra with a pink net top (yes i will agree it does look alittle slutty when i do but i am just expressing the way i feel that day plus alot of my more slutty cloths are very comfe)

Quote from: drkiara on July 16, 2011, 08:16:10 PM
and you cant say you havent done it atleast once even me.

That is a negatory. I appreciate your response and I really do value your opinion. However, when you stated "and you cant say you havent done it at least once.." furthers my argument that it is a stereotypical observation that all transsexuals have done this.....even a fellow transsexual thinks it!

I don't dress like that. I also do not personally judge anyone who does or who does it as a fetish; however, if I am going to be honest with myself, I have to say those who do that in public (outside or websites) like that further lays down a foundation of stereotypical behavior that all transsexuals have done it at least once.

As one poster said, some females of all shapes and sizes has dressed like that and it hasn't hurt anyone. Well, transsexuals have that stereotype branded on us right now that we dress like this. We are already at a disadvantage.

Think of it like this: imagine you are Muslim (or if you are ..then think about this)....how would you respond to your other Muslim friends if they run around doing things that only strengthen a stereotypical response from an ignorant person outside of that faith? Or what about the black culture? or the Gay culture?

My point is: when we already have a stereotypical agenda against us from the start, dressing up exactly like the stereotypical beliefs an ignorant person conceives of us in the first place will only make it harder for us to try to break that stereotypical belief that we all dress like that. The same for a Muslim family trying to convey to their neighbors that they are of peace and love or to a Black couple trying to convince their neigbors that they are indeed educated people.

Stereotypes are a bad and dangerous thing. In my opinion, we shouldn't be feeding it..at least out in public.

ok going along with my statemeant "and you cant say you havent done it atleast once even me." you have never gotten all dressed up like that for say halloween or to go to a club or something yes personally i wear jeans and a shirt i would say about 95% of the time as yes there is a degree where alot of ppl have taken it to far

Quote from: Laura91 on July 16, 2011, 09:37:33 PM
For Halloween 1990, my "costume" was a just a flannel shirt, T shirt and jeans. When one guy asked me "what are you supposed to be?" I smiled and said "I'm a psychotic killer but I look like everyone else".

I have a weird sense of humor.

LMAO!!  That sounds like the time I went to see my friends (around Halloween time) and they decided they wanted to go to a goth club.  Turns out it was the club's costume night and I wasn't wearing anything because we had no plans to go anywhere.  So when we got to the club, I stole a huge cluster of colorful balloons from the club's decorations, tied them to my head, and said I was Carmen Miranda. ;D

Quote from: drkiara on July 16, 2011, 09:23:19 PM
ok going along with my statemeant "and you cant say you havent done it atleast once even me." you have never gotten all dressed up like that for say halloween or to go to a club or something yes personally i wear jeans and a shirt i would say about 95% of the time as yes there is a degree where alot of ppl have taken it to far

even for halloween i never dressed up in a short tight micro miniskirt, thigh highs (where you can see the top band) or huge stiletto heels. Im sorry. I never done that. If you did, more power to ya!

Quote from: drkiara on July 16, 2011, 08:16:10 PM
wow yea i agree there with zoe we all need to calm down and take a deep breath. also if a girl (trans or born) want to dress slutty let them all they are doing is expressing their self you think when they put on those cloths they are thinking they want to put an image out there for everyone or are they just thinking hey i wanna be alittle free and frisky today. and you cant say you havent done it atleast once even me. there is days i have dresses (as you put it slutty or prideful) free and frisky. yes normally i wear jeans and a shirt but there are days i wanna put on my tight mini leather skirt with net stocking and heels and black bra with a pink net top (yes i will agree it does look alittle slutty when i do but i am just expressing the way i feel that day plus alot of my more slutty cloths are very comfe)

Uh no my worst was being Tinkerbell but my skirt went below my knees i have never dressed sluttty in my life ! :D :D :D (Haha some what amazed that didnt alert my my mom)


And come now only ten votes? really ladies you wont help me :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( meanizzzzz :D :D :D :D :D

OK, so an attempt at a vaguely sensible response......I think the issue is that proportionally, there are more TS girls flaunting what theyve got compared to natal females, simply because the amount of TS is an extremely small compared to the number of natural girls out there.  Therefore, the overwhelming perception is of TSs being either a ->-bleeped-<- or TV....which pretty much all of us on here completely disagree with.  If you also add to the mix that the majority of TSs who pass and just want to get on with life dont put themselves on the internet and go into relative stealth mode, then the problem of TS representation on the internet only increases.

When it comes to TVs, my view is that they dress to put a certain persona on, and as its normally sexually driven, that persona is normally dressed in something tarty that most of us wouldnt want to be seen in.  Have I ever gone out dressed slutily....no....can i see why some girls do it.....yes....but we all must live in the normal world where we cant be arsed with makeup for a day or just want to throw some jeans on and go to the shops, and personally Id love to see what those girls dress like for the rest of the week.

One final thought....Ive been to a fair few TV and TS clubs to try and meet new people, and to be honest I feel massively awkward in there, simply as Im normally the one in jeans and a top rather than a stupidly small dress and ridiculously high heels.  It took me a while to realise that this is because I wasnt going out to be someone else for the night like most of the people in there....I was going out just to be myself.....and as soon as I realised that....TG friendly places really lost their appeal.

Ill now duck in the corner and wait for the missiles to fly back about that little rant!  Ps, I voted!x

Quote from: SarahH on July 17, 2011, 08:09:34 AM
OK, so an attempt at a vaguely sensible response......I think the issue is that proportionally, there are more TS girls flaunting what theyve got compared to natal females, simply because the amount of TS is an extremely small compared to the number of natural girls out there.  Therefore, the overwhelming perception is of TSs being either a ->-bleeped-<- or TV....which pretty much all of us on here completely disagree with.  If you also add to the mix that the majority of TSs who pass and just want to get on with life dont put themselves on the internet and go into relative stealth mode, then the problem of TS representation on the internet only increases.

When it comes to TVs, my view is that they dress to put a certain persona on, and as its normally sexually driven, that persona is normally dressed in something tarty that most of us wouldnt want to be seen in.  Have I ever gone out dressed slutily....no....can i see why some girls do it.....yes....but we all must live in the normal world where we cant be arsed with makeup for a day or just want to throw some jeans on and go to the shops, and personally Id love to see what those girls dress like for the rest of the week.

One final thought....Ive been to a fair few TV and TS clubs to try and meet new people, and to be honest I feel massively awkward in there, simply as Im normally the one in jeans and a top rather than a stupidly small dress and ridiculously high heels.  It took me a while to realise that this is because I wasnt going out to be someone else for the night like most of the people in there....I was going out just to be myself.....and as soon as I realised that....TG friendly places really lost their appeal.

Ill now duck in the corner and wait for the missiles to fly back about that little rant!  Ps, I voted!x

Mwa thanks i love your whole post i will send air kisses instead of missiles if you dont mind :D :D :-* :-* :-*

Really, you all use the slut word like it's a bad thing or something.  As a general rule, most of the sluts, (TS/TG and regular girls) I know are pretty happy people.  People you like to invite to parties.  People who come to your parties and wake up there the next afternoon.   In coming to grips with all of this gender stuff it it not surprising to find you have an inner slut who needs to be unleashed. 

And it's not 'pride' per se.  It's open defiance.  But defiance is often a huge step on the road to pride.

Slut pride!  We are claiming it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk)

Quote from: tekla on July 17, 2011, 09:24:41 AM
Really, you all use the slut word like it's a bad thing or something.  As a general rule, most of the sluts, (TS/TG and regular girls) I know are pretty happy people.  People you like to invite to parties.  People who come to your parties and wake up there the next afternoon.   In coming to grips with all of this gender stuff it it not surprising to find you have an inner slut who needs to be unleashed. 

And it's not 'pride' per se.  It's open defiance.  But defiance is often a huge step on the road to pride.

Slut pride!  We are claiming it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk)

INNER SLUT??????????????? wow thats new but sorry the closest part of me to a slut is the fact i wear a bra lol sorry but being slutty isnt being defiant because first of all men secretly dream of girls like that(i think not to sure dont go google this now to) which therefore equals they are simply falling into a role men set for them.

Feel free to fight this because i am not to sure on it myself but i am pretty sure they arent being defiant.

first of all men secretly dream of girls like that

That would be the worst kept secret ever then.  It's not a secret, it's a cultural standard.  It's several icons.

Quote from: tekla on July 17, 2011, 10:48:58 AM
first of all men secretly dream of girls like that

That would be the worst kept secret ever then.  It's not a secret, it's a cultural standard.  It's several icons.

There no single shred of defiance but rather a full and complete submission to males!! which makes them even more sad to begin with!!

Quote from: tekla on July 13, 2011, 02:23:08 PM
On the other hand there are no shortages of WBW who wear the slut look almost like a uniform.

I agre with Tekla it looks awful in almost all females. I think a young pretty woman, or a middle age woman with a good body can pull something like that for a nigh-out clubbing, but not for "marchin on" in a shopping mal a saturday afternoon.

Dress your age, dress for the task at hand.

Kate D

I also detest that "midday" casual outfit that most wasp woman wear, you know the khaki pants half way down the ankle, one size to big, with a kangaroo pouch-hanging-in-their-rear.

Kate D

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 17, 2011, 10:57:44 AM
There no single shred of defiance but rather a full and complete submission to males!! which makes them even more sad to begin with!!

Women often dress for other women. And I'm not talking lesbians either. Dressing to showcase their assets is one way women compete against each other, whether males are around or not. Women notice other women's clothing far more than men do. And they judge each others' bodies with a far keener and harsher eye than men do as well. So, we can't blame all this on 'submission to males'. A woman in slutty attire may just be asserting her dominance to other females as the hottest woman in the room. And that is defiance.

Had to mention that I just finished last months edition of ALLURE magazine, arguably one on the arbiters of American fashion.  Cover and major article on Fergie, from the Black Eyed Peas.  The fashion layouts had her in black leather rompers, and various undies by the absolute top designers.  Admittedly, she can carry it off.  When they do a spread like that, they usually include a page with maybe 20 photos, showing that persons fashion evolution.  The photos often start at childhood.  Underneath each is a caption by that person on what she did, or did not like about hair and outfit, and how she changed in the future.  It is an evolution.  The people profiled, of course, have the money and time to do it right.  Usually they also have experienced eyes helping them go for a cohesive look that presents a particular view.  An artistic expression meant to align with a particular public or demographic.  Professionals dress to express a particular view also, and dress accordingly or risk business failure. The slutty Trans maybe advertising her wares to the typical male, or just letting loose from her job in a corporate cubicle.  Freedom means putting up with transgenders, Westboro Baptist Church, or badly dressed people.  Otherwise we're not free.  And a big group would like to take away YOU'RE freedoms no matter how conservatively you dress. 

The demographic that reads Allure is such that I doubt few will go out and buy leather rompers.  But it is one aspect of the stereotypical female sexuality, whether you appreciate it or not.  Whore in the bedroom: Betty Crocker in the kitchen.  Might I also point out that Fergie makes millions and gets to sleep with Josh Duhamel.  Bet she doesn't wear flannel nightgowns when she does. 

I guess it all depends on you inner image of yourself and how you want it to project it.

I have no inner slut at all, a mischievous coquettish girl at best. I am a lady, a professional lady. Business attire and casual sport for work, casual (jeans and T-shirts) for home an running errands, cocktail dresses for a nigh out or a social party. All in good taste, not to tight not too short, not too much make up, etc. Since I am tall (5 10) 3 inch heels is as high as I would go.

In any situation I will avoid any contact with "slutty-looking" females, but that is just me.

Kate D

Yay topic has over 100 posts wow lol now true true

Quote from: kate durcal on July 17, 2011, 12:04:48 PM
I guess it all depends on you inner image of yourself and how you want it to project it.

I have no inner slut at all, a mischievous coquettish girl at best. I am a lady, a professional lady. Business attire and casual sport for work, casual (jeans and T-shirts) for home an running errands, cocktail dresses for a nigh out or a social party. All in good taste, not to tight not too short, not too much make up, etc. Since I am tall (5 10) 3 inch heels is as high as I would go.

In any situation I will avoid any contact with "slutty-looking" females, but that is just me.

Kate D

I definately agree with you there, Kate.  I guess this topic emphasises the fact that TG/TS is the only thing MOST of us have in common.  Trans people and members here are going to range from no class to high class and dirt poor to rich. There is no way you can instill class into those that don't have it and it is really just a waste of time.

I really don't care what other TG/TS do or how they dress. If they have managed to make it to adulthood without employable skills, who am I to put them down for what they have to do to make a living. It's not what I would do but I also have alot of other options and resources that I'm sure others don't have.

Yeesh... talk about a highly judgemental thread both ways...  Just because someone dresses like that or whatever that way has nothing to do with income, class, whatever.  So so judgemental.... Not everyone was born into a super special spot for money or an eduction either.  Yeeesh.

Quote from: JessicaH on July 17, 2011, 01:34:34 PM
I really don't care what other TG/TS do or how they dress. If they have managed to make it to adulthood without employable skills, who am I to put them down for what they have to do to make a living. It's not what I would do but I also have alot of other options and resources that I'm sure others don't have.

I agree with you Jessica H, and at the end of the day I do not care what anybody wears or does for a living.

I have 2 daughter and I have made every effort to rise them to be financially and emotionally independent Ladies. I did the same for my sons.

Personally, I do not buy any excuses as why people do not acquire a descent way to earn a living. I was thrown out at age 13 in a country where social safety nets were not existant. I did a lot of menail jobs and I survive and made the best of "the cards" life have dealt to me. I endure many hardships and made many sacrifices to forge up.

I see many disadvantage kids who take advantages of the many opportunities the local and federal government has to offer (in the USA) and make something out themselves without resorting to prostitution or crime. So, while I do not care what they ware, I will not condone illegal behaviour

Kate D

sadly final results of poll are it mainly embarrasses you therefore it is not pride thank you to all that actually voted

If it embarrasses you how the hell is it someone else's problem or fault?

hey i am simply quoting the most voted for option i never voted for it by the way and its not my fault people think that telka

I think it emotion behind it,

if your not used to go out as a woman, or man, by dressing and looking as a atractive one would be great felling. it kinda give you something if your used to hide your body and not minding yourself that your can reflect yourself in a way who mach your gender and seam very atravtice. you feel sexy, and pretty in a way you might not feel otherwise, and you might be complimented and get happy. specially if you look sexy pervert guys will compliment you.

I feel thats the main reason why people do so,
beside that fashion and what looks good on you is something you learn,
everyone got to find there own style, and if your not used to dress up in women clothes you wont nessesary know how to do it so it looks the best. I dont think ftm got big risk for looking sluttish since guy clothes are more covering, but much women clothes can be..

I think after going out for a time you will getting used to it, you will notice more what kind of clothes your into, and you will know what looks good on you or what you can wear. of corse this is diffrent from people to people, but you will find your style.

I think many transpeople including myself, didnt look that great when we first came out,
trying to much, cutting the hair to short even if i could pass with long hair, or buying the clothe too tight so on.. so on.. but we all need to start somewhere..

I hope it make sence..

Hmmm,  I am a bit shy at times but then again I can swing toward the other end and be very outgoing sometimes too. I had a religious family and was taught to be modest by my mother. But there were times that I would want to strut my stuff, so to speak. I have a nice shapely body (imho) but my face has been ravaged by testosterone and I am very self conscious of it.

I am trying to find balance between two extremes of dress styles and it has little to do with sexuality-I'm just complicated! I have never been embarrassed to be around those who dress this way-being a rock musician I would want to be around them and have done gigs dressed that way "and we all had a real good time". It all depends upon who you are trying to appeal to.

"I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I'm wearing women's panties..." Sorry we were talking about dressing like a slut. I guess even a lumberjack has to go his/her own way.

Randi 8)

I have the fashion sense of a tree stump. My first night out will be jeans/blouse w/flats ............I have been called by some of my employes as fashion challenged.

Thanks for all the votes girls  :D :D :D :D :D
not exactly a happy ending life's never a fairytale anyways.

Don't you think these women get judged enough for how they look and what they wear without you ladies piling on? Don't you think all women have to deal with quite enough judgment without hearing it from their sisters?

Navigating the double-standard-ridden minefield of female sexuality and attractiveness, through all the mixed messages and the millions of ways to be "wrong," isn't easy. "Just sexy enough but not too sexy" is a small target, and the way to hit it varies with a woman's age, physical appearance, and social milieu. And a lot of trans people have a lot of trouble seeing ourselves accurately the way others see us; just look at your own "Do I Pass" thread for confirmation. It's no wonder that some trans women struggle to balance everything, especially in a culture that hypersexualizes, degrades, and dehumanizes you. As it does all women, but you more so.

I'm amazed by the lack of compassion. I'm amazed that you think how these women present themselves reflects on you, when what it really reflects is social attitudes toward trans women. It is not your fault, and it is not their fault, that trans women are hypersexualized and degraded. Oppression is never the victim's fault. Even if some victims play along with their oppressors to survive and get their needs met.

I wouldn't call it "prideful" but there's "slutty" cisgirls too so it's only natural that you'll get transgirls like that. After all we are all just girls and our personalities come in all variables.

No matter how they are labeled, all general labeling comes from society and society is conditioned by older generations who were conditioned by generations older than them.  That's why it takes so long for large group of people to change.  Even the baby boomers, who revolted, demonstrated against and stood in general opposition to their parents generation (first generation to win the war against their parents), fell back into the mold once they reached their 30s & 40s.

So however we see people, we will always be influenced by our upbringing, and it's very difficult to escape that completely.

In my limited experiece in going to trans friendly places, I can usually pick out the M2F TS pretty quick because they are usually dressed much more conservatively than the cross dressers and drag queens. But if it's an appropriate place to get a little freaky and that's what you want to do, have some fun with it and live a little. Just realize that if you have a beer gut and just look like a man in a dress, "most" people are not going to find that sexy at all, no matter how sexy YOU feel.

My opinions are based on what I feel is appropriate for me and I don't really care what others do or if they make a fool of themselves. We don't live in a vacuum and all actions come with a reaction. If you don't want to get laughed at , don't dress like a clown.  By the same token, many of you may thik I dress like a prude or totally lack a sense of fasion!  lol

I love you all, even if I think you dress funny...   :-*

Quote from: kyril on July 20, 2011, 08:38:06 AM
Don't you think these women get judged enough for how they look and what they wear without you ladies piling on? Don't you think all women have to deal with quite enough judgment without hearing it from their sisters?

Kyril, it's not like they are forced to dress that way. If you wear a micro mini skirt where people can see your junk if you bend over the slightest or sit down, people are going to comment....transsexual or cisgendered.

Everyone has a choice and everyone knows the social ramifications that may result in dressing like that. No one put a gun to their head and made them dress like that.  In my opinion, it is poor fashion sense. Not a forced condition.

QuoteNavigating the double-standard-ridden minefield of female sexuality and attractiveness, through all the mixed messages and the millions of ways to be "wrong," isn't easy. "Just sexy enough but not too sexy" is a small target, and the way to hit it varies with a woman's age, physical appearance, and social milieu. And a lot of trans people have a lot of trouble seeing ourselves accurately the way others see us; just look at your own "Do I Pass" thread for confirmation. It's no wonder that some trans women struggle to balance everything, especially in a culture that hypersexualizes, degrades, and dehumanizes you. As it does all women, but you more so.

Of course it is mixed messages. People want to dress sexy but for many of us there is a way to tastefully dress sexy. One can dress sexy without dressing slutty.

This isn't just a transsexual issue but it is also with cis gendered girls as well.

It also goes with transmen and cisgendered men too. Not too many people like the look of their pants halfway down their thighs with their boxers showing. It isn't attractive nor is it sexy.

QuoteI'm amazed by the lack of compassion. I'm amazed that you think how these women present themselves reflects on you, when what it really reflects is social attitudes toward trans women. It is not your fault, and it is not their fault, that trans women are hypersexualized and degraded. Oppression is never the victim's fault. Even if some victims play along with their oppressors to survive and get their needs met.

One can show compassion by telling another girl they don't look so good in that or it makes them look slutty. The uncompassionate thing to do is to let them dress like that with the end results of people pointing and staring.

Quote from: Valeriedances on July 20, 2011, 04:30:15 PM
Great point Annah. I'm always asking my roommate how do I look. Not because I just want to hear that I'm pretty, but whether I've made some major clothing or grooming mistake. I do want to hear I look great, but I want it to be true. And if I look slutty, I hope she has the nerve to tell me before I walk out the door.

Honesty hurts, but it can be done compassionately.

Exactly.

My ex boyfriend lives next door to me on campus at school and while we broke up we are still very good friends.  I always go to him to ask how I look...like do I look fine, am I crossing a type of line, am I looking trashy. He's very honest and he has always given me wonderful advice.

I would question a friend who kept on saying "you look fine" when you know they are just saying it....its kinda like asking your boyfriend how your hair looks and while he is watching a football game, he says "its fine." lol

I value friendship and their honesty that goes with it.  They certainly can provide you with a more realistic perspective on things.

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 20, 2011, 08:52:44 AM
Excuse me Your annoying first of all because you simply havent read every post god in everyone i have stated i am asking a question god you annoy me you just scream at me when all i am doing is telling the poll results i know your sad and lonely but dont take it out me take it out on yourself god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you really cared you would of read through 111 messages of fights and the odd one me asking people not to fight or be mean and i can beat in any topic you have ever started you havent moderated how the people are using it have you? well i have and so i am simply giving feed back on how people answered my question you annoying pest ! I hate men who try to act all justified when they dont even know whats going on seriously next time you want to verbally attack me at least have just cause.

Sorry, but I'm with Kyril here for the most part.  He brought up a slew of excellent counterpoints, some of which I agree with, others of which I don't.  But to respond with an irrelevant screed like that is disrespectful and doesn't add anything to the conversation.  The fact of the matter is, women are judged and scrutinized for their choice in clothing, whether cis or trans, and judgment from within our community on top of whatever external objectification and sexualisation is really unconscionable.  I do think that certain fashion choices are unwise and perhaps inappropriate, but the correct response isn't judgment but education.  There are ways of aiding someone to make better choices in that regard; calling them slutty isn't one of them.
However, I will make the point that for such a small community like transsexuals, and trans women specifically, negative press and stereotypes are easily applied to the group at large when most people have almost no contact with us. The solution, though, isn't to alienate and judge and criticize them. Trans women are indeed hypersexualized and objectified beyond the normal for women in general, and in that sense, the mere thread title and introductory post are intrinsically offensive.
Thanks for saying what I've wanted to say and have been hesitant to, Kyril. I always find your input astute and thought-provoking.

I have a friend who visits me fairly regularly, he's kinda like having a younger brother... I'll ask his opinions regarding various outfits and dresses and such... He is rather honest and doesn't try to flatter me and his reasoning and advise as to what's workin' for me or not is usually rather sensible... Not always what I want to hear... But sensible

He did tell me that my selections and ability to coordinate outfits has greatly improved over the past couple of years  :)

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 20, 2011, 08:52:44 AM
Excuse me Your annoying first of all because you simply havent read every post god in everyone i have stated i am asking a question god you annoy me you just scream at me when all i am doing is telling the poll results i know your sad and lonely but dont take it out me take it out on yourself god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you really cared you would of read through 111 messages of fights and the odd one me asking people not to fight or be mean and i can beat in any topic you have ever started you havent moderated how the people are using it have you? well i have and so i am simply giving feed back on how people answered my question you annoying pest ! I hate men who try to act all justified when they dont even know whats going on seriously next time you want to verbally attack me at least have just cause.

No offence, but I think maybe you're a bit confused and overreacting to Kyril's comments there kiddo  :)

Quote from: V M on July 20, 2011, 05:01:34 PM
I have a friend who visits me fairly regularly, he's kinda like having a younger brother... I'll ask his opinions regarding various outfits and dresses and such... He is rather honest and doesn't try to flatter me and his reasoning and advise as to what's workin' for me or not is usually rather sensible... Not always what I want to hear... But sensible

He did tell me that my selections and ability to coordinate outfits has greatly improved over the past couple of years  :)
No offence, but I think maybe you're a bit confused and overreacting to Kyril's comments there kiddo  :)

HMM maybe ok fine no problem then i am sorry for over reacting Kyril i might of miss understood your comment and took it as an insult again sorry hopefully wont happen again :D :D

Well the one point at which the internet mirrors real life is that everyone has an opinion, and you (no matter who you are) are going to find most of them wrong.

Stereotype of m2f transsexual or transgender here (S. Korea) is far different. The first and the most influential m2f transgender has been Ha Ri Su. You can google her. Most people here first heard about and learned the term transgender from her. A problem is that people here expect that "transgender women have to be prettier than WBW" or whatever. The image is far from slut.

I tend to understand slutty fashions of m2f transgender. WBW could express their inner desire at their teens or 20s, but many transgender people just start and learn about women's fashion at their later 30s or early 40s. They do not have enough time to catch up. They should hurry up, and the expression tends to be very strong. I also tend to wear slutty fashion items compared with WBW here. I enjoy the attention from both women and men, but I prefer women's gaze.

In my case, I can fully wear women's dress once to twice in a month. Mostly I wear very dully women's clothes with binded hair.

Barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on July 21, 2011, 06:29:12 AM
Stereotype of m2f transsexual or transgender here (S. Korea) is far different. The first and the most influential m2f transgender has been Ha Ri Su. You can google her. Most people here first heard about and learned the term transgender from her. A problem is that people here expect that "transgender women have to be prettier than WBW" or whatever. The image is far from slut.

I tend to understand slutty fashions of m2f transgender. WBW could express their inner desire at their teens or 20s, but many transgender people just start and learn about women's fashion at their later 30s or early 40s. They do not have enough time to catch up. They should hurry up, and the expression tends to be very strong. I also tend to wear slutty fashion items compared with WBW here. I enjoy the attention from both women and men, but I prefer women's gaze.

In my case, I can fully wear women's dress once to twice in a month. Mostly I wear very dully women's clothes with binded hair.

Barbie~~

I admit she beautiful, talented and a icon but why is she the most influential? I mean she might be due to the fact she is a pop singer but so is Kim so why is the most influential? Just curious on this one :D :D would you mind to pm or post about her i mean i have researched her but i  truly dont see what makes her anymore special than one of us other than being famous :D thanks ( sorry i know this sounds rude but its not meant to be just so you know)

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 21, 2011, 06:44:07 AM
I admit she beautiful, talented and a icon but why is she the most influential? I mean she might be due to the fact she is a pop singer but so is Kim so why is the most influential? Just curious on this one :D :D would you mind to pm or post about her i mean i have researched her but i  truly dont see what makes her anymore special than one of us other than being famous :D thanks ( sorry i know this sounds rude but its not meant to be just so you know)

In the early 1990s, even gay was a kind of taboo here, and most people had not heard about transgender or transsexualism. Ha Ri Su became "Hot Issue" because Advertisement companies hired her to promote sales of cosmetics. She became an icon for gender minority. There is an archived article from the washington post: http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=97043 (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=97043)

Barbie~~

Quote from: tekla on July 21, 2011, 12:04:27 AM
Well the one point at which the internet mirrors real life is that everyone has an opinion, and you (no matter who you are) are going to find most of them wrong.

Wait, are you saying the Internet is NOT real life?

OK I watched this thred go on for awhile and have said nothing but I can't hold my tounge....

First the thred title starts off don't want to offend. If you have to preface a statement that you do not wish to be offensive....you are admiting that the topic is offensive. As such it never should have been posted.

Second....Slut. That is a shameing word. A control word that is loaded with value judgements. By what right do any of us label the activities or actions of anouther 'sluty'? Slut is a word that says, 'my values and morals trump yours'.
Female sexuality and sexual power are not valued in this society. Women who like sex and enjoy it are labeled sluts. Women who wear clothing that reveals too much of that dreadful female flesh are sluts. Slut is an asault on female sexuality and therefore females.

As long as no one is being harmed there should be no discussion of anouther persons attire or mode of socializing, and we sure as hell should not be firing off words like slut.

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I'd like to point out also that it is very hard to just jump into the world of the adult woman when one didn't have the chance to experiment and learn as a young girl. Many young teens experiment with their look as they learn to navigate the 'the double-standard-ridden minefield of female sexuality and attractiveness'*. Cisgirls get many years to learn through trial and error not afforded to trans women. Some trans women seem to go through the same too short skirts and too much makeup phase a lot of 14 year old girls go through. They just didn't get to do it earlier.


*Thanks, Kyril. :)

Quote from: Forum Admin on July 21, 2011, 09:39:13 AM
... Cisgirls get many years to learn through trial and error not afforded to trans women. Some trans women seem to go through the same too short skirts and too much makeup phase a lot of 14 year old girls go through. They just didn't get to do it earlier.

Kyril, you put it in a NUTSHELL, thank you!

It is exactly as you point out things went with me, not a question.

It is of course practically forgiven at a very young age --- far less so when being older going through the same "symptoms".

Axelle

Quote from: AbracaDebra on July 13, 2011, 05:39:28 PM
Thanks Sarah, and I thought I knew them all.  I've always used the term bio male or bio female.  :)

Debra, WBM don't see us as women. They are for Women born as women only. Hence the Womyn with a y. It's a feminist movement that basically excludes us from womanhood. It's definitely not just any bio-female. :P

Quote from: Annah on July 14, 2011, 02:11:42 PM
Same rule applies for flashing your boobs to strangers.

Unless you're at Mardi Gras!! :)

Quote from: barbie on July 21, 2011, 07:11:25 AM
In the early 1990s, even gay was a kind of taboo here, and most people had not heard about transgender or transsexualism. Ha Ri Su became "Hot Issue" because Advertisement companies hired her to promote sales of cosmetics. She became an icon for gender minority. There is an archived article from the washington post: http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=97043 (http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=97043)

Barbie~~

thanks and i like her because my Taiwanese friends say because Of Ha Ri Su that i am a girl  :D :D :D :D :D  and that does make her pretty amazing.

Edit: i say their race because i love them all to bits and they are proud of who they are plus i dont want them to be associated with my other racist/sexist friends :D :D

Quote from: Axélle on July 21, 2011, 09:48:13 AM
Kyril, you put it in a NUTSHELL, thank you!

It is exactly as you point out things went with me, not a question.

It is of course practically forgiven at a very young age --- far less so when being older going through the same "symptoms".

Axelle

I can't really buy in to that argument. Even if you are only 21 years old, you should have the maturity, intelligence and judgement of a 21 year old. It's pretty easy to look around at women your age and KNOW what is considered appropriate in your society. It's not a matter of right or wrong but there ARE reprecussions to how we present ourselves to the world. If you dress like a street thug, people assume you are a street thug or share their characteristics. If you dress like a hooker, people are going to afford you the respect that you have demanded.

The thread IS about opinions and like it or not we all have one.  If you like to present yourself in a way that most of society finds distasteful , then you SHOULD know know the prevailing and differing opinions.  You have to balance what you "like" to wear and how you want to be viewed. Most of my life I had dress a certain way to be taken serious in what I was doing. Sometimes it meant an expensive suit and  a tie when it was 100 degrees or a all black uniform with long pants and sleeves when I'd have much prefered shorts, fipflops and a t-shirt.

Quote from: JessicaH on July 21, 2011, 10:58:20 AM
I can't really buy in to that argument. Even if you are only 21 years old, you should have the maturity, intelligence and judgement of a 21 year old. It's pretty easy to look around at women your age and KNOW what is considered appropriate in your society. It's not a matter of right or wrong but there ARE reprecussions to how we present ourselves to the world. If you dress like a street thug, people assume you are a street thug or share their characteristics. If you dress like a hooker, people are going to afford you the respect that you have demanded.

The thread IS about opinions and like it or not we all have one.  If you like to present yourself in a way that most of society finds distasteful , then you SHOULD know know the prevailing and differing opinions.  You have to balance what you "like" to wear and how you want to be viewed. Most of my life I had dress a certain way to be taken serious in what I was doing. Sometimes it meant an expensive suit and  a tie when it was 100 degrees or a all black uniform with long pants and sleeves when I'd have much prefered shorts, fipflops and a t-shirt.

dont you just love it when another person knows more about your own thread YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!!! :D :D

Quote from: JessicaH on July 21, 2011, 10:58:20 AM
I can't really buy in to that argument. Even if you are only 21 years old, you should have the maturity, intelligence and judgement of a 21 year old.

Perhaps, but a 21 year old trans woman normally doesn't have the experience of a 21 year old cis woman. Though she may be a mature adult in most ways, there are some things she simply won't know without years of lived experience as a woman. While so much of being a woman is innate, there is much that is social and learned that one simply can't get without being perceived as a woman (and as a cis woman at that). And a lot of that has to do with experience of gauging reactions to how one presents and dresses. Every aspect of a woman's appearance is scrutinized; cis women have had ample time to live and learn through reactions of others. Trans women early in transition have not.
If some trans women have gotten this down early, that's great. Others need time to learn just as many cis women do.

First off, everytime I read this thread the soundtrack in my head is playing this, Valley Girl accent and all.

Oh, my, god. Becky, look at her butt.
It is so big. *scoff* She looks like,
one of those rap guys' girlfriends.
But, y'know, who understands those rap guys? *scoff*
They only talk to her, because,
she looks like a total prostitute, 'kay?
I mean, her butt, is just so big. *scoff*
I can't believe it's just so round, it's like,
out there, I mean - gross. Look!
She's just so ... black!


All of this is in the eye of the beholder.  Cultural differences, socio-economic differences, climate all tend to factor in.  You can look like a slut in NYC in the winter wearing a huge amount of clothing, while someone strolling San Diego in next to nothing is being modest.  I'm absolutely certain the bar for what it takes to be a slut is a lot higher in LA than Omaha.  There is an entire Latina range of dressing like this that makes almost all other girls look absolutely frumpy in comparison.  Those women can make the Queen of the Angels sigh.  They don't think they are sluts -and will pretty much kick your ass if you call them that - they think they are young, hot and sexy.  Does it drive the boys crazy?  Hell yeah, that a huge part of the fun.  But culturally speaking in Santa Rosa or East LA they are not dressing out of the mainstream for women of that age at all.  It's just that your fashion sense is not nearly that exciting.

Plus - and at first I wasn't going to go here, but WTF - just because you BUY some stuff does not make you the person.  Wearing the shirt does not make you the band or the team.  I could go out and buy a  real authentic Hope Solo Team USA Soccer Jersey.  It does not make me Hope Solo.  It does not even make me a better goalie.  Hell, it doesn't even change the fact that I don't know the first thing about even playing soccer.  It doesn't put me on the USA Women's Team to buy it.  It doesn't make me a woman to buy it or wear it, and its not even proof of being an American since we'd sell the jerseys to anyone.   

Likewise you can go to Hot Topic or whatever consumer-approved rebellion store you like and buy all the band shirts for the latest set of poseurs with bad hair instruments that are way too good for them and some 'edgy' name thought up by a marketing department somewhere.  It does not make you hip.  It only make Hot Topic $20 richer.

I wouldn't confuse some girl walking down the street in a Pablo Sandoval Giant's baseball jersey with a World Series winning 237 pound Venezuelan infielder.  Neither would you.

I'd go so far as to say that a whole lot of the slutty dress is done by 'nice' girls who are trying to spice up their otherwise dull, drab and boring life.  It manufactured excitement sold to people who can't manufacture any excitement on their own.  You can say all you want about what kind of image they project when they are out strutting Broadway on Saturday night, but when the weekend is done, they are back in business drag and at their desk come Monday morning.

Because what exactly is the difference between a hot slut ready to hit the bright lights and big city like she owns the very pavement she's struttin' down and Marian the Librarian on her way home, because home is the only places she ever goes?  20 minutes on the bus.  I see girls all the time get on the bus in San Rafael, and change their clothes, do their makeup (and Hot Slut colors are made by the same cosmetic companies that make Good Girl colors) do the hair, take the glasses off, put the contacts in and volia!  Hot to trot.  And it works the same in reverse.  The hair goes up into some tight wrap on the back of the head, the make up comes off, the uniforms go on and the contacts come out and the glasses go back on and it's Good Morning Little Schoolgirl.

The entire thing is most likely a reverse deal anyway so that those that dress for sex the most are having the least, while the people who don't look like anything at all are having porno sex every day.  I'm pretty sure - because I'm listening to their conversation intently - that those girls on the bus are good girls.  They just like looking bad once in a while. 

(Here's where I'm going to get in trouble)  While not so good looking women often view this as exploitation, pretty girls know it as power.  Pretty girls rule the world in their own way.  At least they usually get their own way, which is pretty much what ruling the world comes down to in the end anyway.  Yeah, sure it's true that: Oh, she's just showing off her boobs in that fancy Victoria's Secret bra to get out of paying the $50 bar tab she's going to drink her way through tonight.

And...?


Some trans women seem to go through the same too short skirts and too much makeup phase a lot of 14 year old girls go through.

Some, perhaps, but not all.  That sounds like a cop-out to me.  I don't think that most girls go through that.  Only the ones that want to.

The first time you do it when you like 13 or so might be an 'experiment' but every single time after that you know damn well what you are doing or you're a total idiot.  And, like Dolly Parton (who should know) has said: It takes a lot of money to dress this cheap.  The hot slut clothing is way more expensive than the dull, boring, everyday frump look straight out of the Ross store.  You're not casually, almost by accident, buying a skin tight leather mini skirt for a few hundred bucks.  I'm also pretty sure that the first time every girl tried to walk out of the house dressed like that their mom or dad - or both - let them have a big pile of their fashion advice concluding with: 'no daughter of mine is going out in public dressed like that!'  Hence changing clothes on the bus. 


The Big Thing

That someone else is doing something only reflects on you if you let it, or if the other person is incredibly stupid.  And since you can't do anything about the second, all you have to do is hold up your end of the first part.  Do not let it reflect on you. 

It sounds a whole lot like (because it is exactly like) blaming other people for your problems.  That other people are, or are not, doing something does not reflect on you until you join them in it.

Quote from: Forum Admin on July 21, 2011, 11:53:34 AM
Perhaps, but a 21 year old trans woman normally doesn't have the experience of a 21 year old cis woman. Though she may be a mature adult in most ways, there are some things she simply won't know without years of lived experience as a woman. While so much of being a woman is innate, there is much that is social and learned that one simply can't get without being perceived as a woman (and as a cis woman at that). And a lot of that has to do with experience of gauging reactions to how one presents and dresses. Every aspect of a woman's appearance is scrutinized; cis women have had ample time to live and learn through reactions of others. Trans women early in transition have not.
If some trans women have gotten this down early, that's great. Others need time to learn just as many cis women do.

but its not impossible. i mean sure i cant apply make-up yet but i have the fashion sense of a teenage girl and i can dress perfectly for my age. Its not hard to be fashion forward if you are interested in womens' fashion and want to look your best. Yes its a generalization to assume that any 21 year old can dress right but all it takes is a shopping day with a friend to fix that  :) :) :P :P

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 21, 2011, 12:31:37 PM
but its not impossible. i mean sure i cant apply make-up yet but i have the fashion sense of a teenage girl and i can dress perfectly for my age. Its not hard to be fashion forward if you are interested in womens' fashion and want to look your best. Yes its a generalization to assume that any 21 year old can dress right but all it takes is a shopping day with a friend to fix that  :) :) :P :P

Maybe for some. But seeing as most women's fashion is flattering to the teenage girl, how do you know if you'd know to dress as an older woman? You're lucky enough to have the opportunity to experiment while young; how would you feel if you had to bypass this stage?

QuoteSome trans women seem to go through the same too short skirts and too much makeup phase a lot of 14 year old girls go through.

Some, perhaps, but not all.  That sounds like a cop-out to me.  I don't think that most girls go through that.  Only the ones that want to.

I didn't say all. But a lot of girls start experimenting with dress the second they get tits. Sure, they want to. But, it's a normal part of learning and testing limits.  Girls discover they are sexually attractive and learn how to harness that. There are many girls who go through this stage at 13 and go on to dress like librarians at 21. My point is that trans women are subject to this too, just at a later age.

Regardless, this thread does read like nail polish on a high school girls' restroom. Girls will always be quick to label anyone a slut that looks or dresses too good.

Quote from: Forum Admin on July 21, 2011, 01:16:51 PM
Maybe for some. But seeing as most women's fashion is flattering to the teenage girl, how do you know if you'd know to dress as an older woman? You're lucky enough to have the opportunity to experiment while young; how would you feel if you had to bypass this stage?

well seeming i will go full when i finish school so when i am 18 i think i will just evolve my fashion as i age :D :D PLUS i never go shopping with a friend so i dont think i could get away with a fashion crime  ;)

Quote from: Forum Admin on July 21, 2011, 01:16:51 PM
Maybe for some. But seeing as most women's fashion is flattering to the teenage girl, how do you know if you'd know to dress as an older woman? You're lucky enough to have the opportunity to experiment while young; how would you feel if you had to bypass this stage?

not all young girls dress in micro mini skirts, halter tops and thigh highs. This is what I am talking about.

I work in the Junior dept at JC Penney (teenage girl section) and the vast majority of the clothing there are very cute without giving that slutty appearance. We have more jeans and jean selections in the junior dept than the mens, boys, and young mens combined. Teenage girls are wearing lotsa jeans or cute skirts (not to be mistaken for the ultra short skirts). Our tops we sell are also very cute and we very rarely sell tight tops that show a midriff. We have them but since they do not sell a whole lot we do not carry a lot. This means that girls just don't dress promiscuously enough to warrant paying vendors to stock them. It just isn't desirable for them to buy it. It's not in style either.

Also, me being 37 years old, the first thing I thought about was how not to look like a 14 year old girl. I walked around the mall and viewed women in their 20s and 30s and get the general contemporary fashion sense. Saying that an older woman (trans) doesn't know how to dress so they wear the short mini skirts and thigh highs where you can visibly see the top band just tells me they aren't really paying attention to their age groupings.

QuoteI didn't say all. But a lot of girls start experimenting with dress the second they get tits. Sure, they want to. But, it's a normal part of learning and testing limits.  Girls discover they are sexually attractive and learn how to harness that. There are many girls who go through this stage at 13 and go on to dress like librarians at 21. My point is that trans women are subject to this too, just at a later age.

I have to disagree with this. Many young girls dress like that because of their age and their current maturity level. Also, younger teenage girls are more succeptable to peer pressure of dating, looking sexy, etc. Its why they coined them the rebellious years.

When you are older, cisgendered girl or transgirl, you can control your ability to fall into those type of pitfalls because you have the mentality to know better.  Teenage boys and teenage girls has a vastly different mentality than an adult woman and an adult man...well, ideally. If a 40 year old woman goes around acting like a 12 year old, they are considered socially awkward. It certainly is not the norm.

As a woman I have cute clothing and I have very nice clothing and I have shorter skirts, but I know not to wear a micro mini because not only is it silly in my age grouping but it is also silly to wear in public. It screams "look at me, I need attention."

QuoteRegardless, this thread does read like nail polish on a high school girls' restroom. Girls will always be quick to label anyone a slut that looks or dresses too good.

There is a difference between looking good and cute and fashionably knowledgeable and dressing like you are going to a Rocky Horror Picture Show.

And in the end, isn't this all about conformity?

"Be an individual!"
"March to the tune of a different drummer!"
"Be yourself!"

As long as you walk, talk, act, dress and think like everyone else.

I think its about expression a pg13 restriction :P

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 22, 2011, 06:58:52 AM
And in the end, isn't this all about conformity?

"Be an individual!"
"March to the tune of a different drummer!"
"Be yourself!"

As long as you walk, talk, act, dress and think like everyone else.

Exactly. A LOT of what I see on these forums relates to introverted people not being accepting that some people are simply not like them. We are not all scared to death for someone to notice us, we don't all care if we "blend into the wallpaper". I actually do dress mostly conservatively but I don't think like "well most women wear jeans and a T shirt so that's what I wear". I have NEVER followed what the current fashion or colors are. I love jean skirts and they aren't that popular right now, too bad :P My best friend is totally into the 60's hippy girl look (and yes she is a natal female), so what?  She looks cool to me. All this "look at what other women wear so you can be invisible" is maybe how SOME people's personality dictates them be, but not everyone and it doesn't reflect one way or the other on those people.

I wear jeans and tshirts or a blouse most the time.
When I do dress up I keep it muted and pretty. I never aim for hot. (doubt I could pull it off anyways)

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 22, 2011, 06:58:52 AM
And in the end, isn't this all about conformity?

"Be an individual!"
"March to the tune of a different drummer!"
"Be yourself!"

As long as you walk, talk, act, dress and think like everyone else.

You are being to up tight ;) look we all have opinions yes ??? ??? and well simply put arguing or insulting their opinion is well a waste of time because they wont sudden go yea your right because you want them to :D They will just fight back and that will keep making this thread fly even more out of control and i dont think that needs to happen.
So is it ok if i ask put your opinion but dont make fun of others?


PS: saying a some up of others posts but making fun of what they say is lame  :D :D please dont it brings out claws and causes scratches to form.

Quote from: Stephe on July 22, 2011, 09:35:05 AM
Exactly. A LOT of what I see on these forums relates to introverted people not being accepting that some people are simply not like them. We are not all scared to death for someone to notice us, we don't all care if we "blend into the wallpaper". I actually do dress mostly conservatively but I don't think like "well most women wear jeans and a T shirt so that's what I wear". I have NEVER followed what the current fashion or colors are. I love jean skirts and they aren't that popular right now, too bad :P My best friend is totally into the 60's hippy girl look (and yes she is a natal female), so what?  She looks cool to me. All this "look at what other women wear so you can be invisible" is maybe how SOME people's personality dictates them be, but not everyone and it doesn't reflect one way or the other on those people.

Well said.

Well, I just wear what I feel like wearing, I don't think it is too flashy, I mean I am not that flashy of a person, but if the right mood struck me I might wear something I consider embarrassing. But, that is also sort of fun in it's own right. I do tend to enjoy gothic fashion, but less of the skin tight PVC club wear more of the casual stuff.

I will say though, I have a bit of an aversion to jeans, I just feel they are a bit overdone. Granted, I do own several pairs, but I mean I would much rather wear a skirt, or a dress or some sort of non blue jean pants than them.

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 22, 2011, 11:01:44 AM
You are being to up tight ;) look we all have opinions yes ??? ??? and well simply put arguing or insulting their opinion is well a waste of time because they wont sudden go yea your right because you want them to :D They will just fight back and that will keep making this thread fly even more out of control and i dont think that needs to happen.
So is it ok if i ask put your opinion but dont make fun of others?


PS: saying a some up of others posts but making fun of what they say is lame  :D :D please dont it brings out claws and causes scratches to form.

I really don't know how to respond to that except to say you've taken what I said and twisted it terribly.  Wherever those emotions or intentions came from, they didn't come from me.  If you're looking for a fight, you'll have to go elsewhere.

I have been living in high-waisted shorts most of this summer, even though it hasn't been very warm.   There are people who would think these shorts potentially slutty.    I don't think that they are at all.    I have denim shorts and very dressy shorts, besides my mother would never allow me to look 'slutty' in a million years.    She can tell the difference between youthful clothes and slutty clothes.

If you look at the women's sectios at Asos, the look these days isn't slutty but sort of innocent pre-teen.   There are certain 'looks' that I wouldn't wear like short floral dresses with young girl knee-socks teamed with heeled sandals.   On second thought maybe this is a slutty look as this look does have Lolita overtones.      One person's  youthful innocent playfulness when expressed in clothes may often be another's slutty clothes.

I wonder if the so-called slutty clothes in shops isn't what the manufacters want to see being sold?     Or what they think that their customers will want.   I read in one of my mother's magazines about a woman who wanted  to buy some baby clothes for her friend's  baby daughter.   She went to several shops and all the shops had only blue for boys or pink and in her words a 'sickly yellow' for girls.    She wrote to the head office of the biggest chain and received a letter saying that these where the colours that their customers seemed to want.    That reminded me of Henry Ford's famous choice 'You can have a car in any colour as long as it is black'

Has anyone defined what exactly is meant by the term slutty?    One of my mother's friends thinks that genetic girls who wear hoop earrings are slutty - she uses another term.   My mother hates seeing girls chewing gum she thinks that is really 'common' and ill-bred.

I think it is often an opinion based term that is often misused

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.asos.com%2Finv%2Fmedia%2F5%2F6%2F4%2F0%2F1390465%2Fgrey%2Fimage1xl.jpg&hash=e5cab90455a1b3714cc1aa07869d8379525de55d)


Some might think that this was a 'slutty' look.    Let me deconstruct it(see if you agree).    Lots of young women these days are plagued with doubts about themselves.    Are they pretty, are they as grown-up as their friends seem to be?    Many people looking at a girl dressed like this would think 'that girl is trying too hard to attract boys'.   It may seem so at first glance, but I see in this picture a shy, insecure girl trying to appear grown-up and sophisticated.    While she would like a nice boyfriend she would be horrified I assure you if she thought that people thought that she was a slut!   She is trying to look like a worldly woman, someone a boy would find attractive.   Her head is filled with thoughts of romance - long walks along the beach, holding hands, spending hours talking about personal things: she is not thinking about sex.    Sex grows out of love for women.   Men can sleep with women that they barely know.   Only women with very low self-esteem would consider doing that.

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on July 22, 2011, 07:55:41 PM
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Some might think that this was a 'slutty' look.    Let me deconstruct it(see if you agree).    Lots of young women these days are plagued with doubts about themselves.    Are they pretty, are they as grown-up as their friends seem to be?    Many people looking at a girl dressed like this would think 'that girl is trying too hard to attract boys'.   It may seem so at first glance, but I see in this picture a shy, insecure girl trying to appear grown-up and sophisticated.    While she would like a nice boyfriend she would be horrified I assure you if she thought that people thought that she was a slut!   She is trying to look like a worldly woman, someone a boy would find attractive.   Her head is filled with thoughts of romance - long walks along the beach, holding hands, spending hours talking about personal things: she is not thinking about sex.    Sex grows out of love for women.   Men can sleep with women that they barely know.   Only women with very low self-esteem would consider doing that.

    I dress like that, I buy most of my clothes from forever21  :D

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on July 22, 2011, 07:55:41 PM
Some might think that this was a 'slutty' look.    Let me deconstruct it(see if you agree).    Lots of young women these days are plagued with doubts about themselves.    Are they pretty, are they as grown-up as their friends seem to be?    Many people looking at a girl dressed like this would think 'that girl is trying too hard to attract boys'.   It may seem so at first glance, but I see in this picture a shy, insecure girl trying to appear grown-up and sophisticated.    While she would like a nice boyfriend she would be horrified I assure you if she thought that people thought that she was a slut!   She is trying to look like a worldly woman, someone a boy would find attractive.   Her head is filled with thoughts of romance - long walks along the beach, holding hands, spending hours talking about personal things: she is not thinking about sex.    Sex grows out of love for women.   Men can sleep with women that they barely know.   Only women with very low self-esteem would consider doing that.

Those last two sentences represent the double standard I could never comprehend.  One reason why I never dated or gotten VD.   
  Yes!  Women have those doubts these days because of the expectations put on them in the environment they live in now.  They are bombarded with those movies, commercials, fashion shows and the other things that show a version of an 'ideal' woman.  They starve, get Botox, do plastic surgery, etc to get that way.  These causing major health problems down the road.  This is why I mentioned trying to get an outfit for my special niece on an earlier post in this thread.   They expected little girls to buy Brittany Spears style clothing back then.  I also seen this with a few TG women as well. 
  Joelene

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 22, 2011, 05:34:14 PM
I really don't know how to respond to that except to say you've taken what I said and twisted it terribly.  Wherever those emotions or intentions came from, they didn't come from me.  If you're looking for a fight, you'll have to go elsewhere.

:-\ :-\ Sorry that is then a situation where i have completely misunderstood your message sorry  :) :) I honestly thought it meant how i described it sorry :-X :-X :-X

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on July 22, 2011, 07:55:41 PM
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Some might think that this was a 'slutty' look.    Let me deconstruct it(see if you agree).    Lots of young women these days are plagued with doubts about themselves.    Are they pretty, are they as grown-up as their friends seem to be?    Many people looking at a girl dressed like this would think 'that girl is trying too hard to attract boys'.   It may seem so at first glance, but I see in this picture a shy, insecure girl trying to appear grown-up and sophisticated.    While she would like a nice boyfriend she would be horrified I assure you if she thought that people thought that she was a slut!   She is trying to look like a worldly woman, someone a boy would find attractive.   Her head is filled with thoughts of romance - long walks along the beach, holding hands, spending hours talking about personal things: she is not thinking about sex.    Sex grows out of love for women.   Men can sleep with women that they barely know.   Only women with very low self-esteem would consider doing that.

Hmmm and my thread evolves again from women in children cloths to modern fashion true some might say that is a slutty form of dressing i never thought of it like that  :P. Hmm 1 big difference to how i describe a slut though. To me a slut is someone who wears such tight and small cloths i can see their panties. to me that seems like what every teen to 20s girl with a slim body wears to a beach but again thats just my opinion. :D



I am glad to see the poll is no longer that most of you get embarrassed  :D :D :D :D common girls vote away that answers lead!!!!!!!!!!!

she does not look slutty to me

Kate D

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on July 22, 2011, 07:55:41 PM
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Some might think that this was a 'slutty' look.    Let me deconstruct it(see if you agree).    Lots of young women these days are plagued with doubts about themselves.    Are they pretty, are they as grown-up as their friends seem to be?    Many people looking at a girl dressed like this would think 'that girl is trying too hard to attract boys'.   It may seem so at first glance, but I see in this picture a shy, insecure girl trying to appear grown-up and sophisticated.    While she would like a nice boyfriend she would be horrified I assure you if she thought that people thought that she was a slut!   She is trying to look like a worldly woman, someone a boy would find attractive.   Her head is filled with thoughts of romance - long walks along the beach, holding hands, spending hours talking about personal things: she is not thinking about sex.    Sex grows out of love for women.   Men can sleep with women that they barely know.   Only women with very low self-esteem would consider doing that.

That's not slutty.

This is considered slutty to me:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.spunkycash.com%2F643-300-300.jpg&hash=b372792376e385cdb869aadcc43b02f0a27634eb)
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Quote from: Annah on July 23, 2011, 09:13:34 AM
That's not slutty.

This is considered slutty to me:
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(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcSN0rTxo2mHgGnJkMuDsnT5W0G5JBk0nlPLtC6ui-zNSeppO8zT&hash=907067261e65647e773953a54e457d0ab689808e)

Thats slutty hands down

See, I wouldn't wear either outfit, but it really doesn't bother me that other people do. I guess, I feel it just doesn't effect me much if other people do.

I wouldn't be caught dead in public in an outfit like that. However....
There are situations when such attire may be appropriate. Swingers clubs, raunchy parties and seducing ones lover behind clossed doors, come to mind imediatly.
But in the general public!?!?!??
Not a chance in hell.

People wear what they like.

"I" might not like it, "I" might never wear that type of clothing, but "I" am not them.

As for being the "next rape victim" that issue has been fought in court many times.  What a person wears, Does Not give anyone else the right to violate that person.

Lets move on and give this topic a rest.

That rape coment was uncalled for.

I have been raped.
Maybe it was my fault because I didn't keep my door properly locked?

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 23, 2011, 09:50:28 AM
Sadly people do but dont fight me on this saying its their choice! Anyone else see a next raped victim in those photos?

How DARE you? I'm a survivor of rape, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one on these boards. You are victim-blaming in the most horrifying way.

When I was raped, I'd just gotten off work, and I was wearing this:
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/chapter3/FemaleEnlisted/FE_Working/Pages/Coveralls.aspx (http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/chapter3/FemaleEnlisted/FE_Working/Pages/Coveralls.aspx)

Is that too slutty for you? Is it my fault that I was raped? Is it? Should I have been wearing a burkha?

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 23, 2011, 09:50:28 AM
Sadly people do but dont fight me on this saying its their choice! Anyone else see a next raped victim in those photos?

What is wrong with you? O.o

IT IS THEIR CHOICE!!

I'm not going to even go into the enticing rape comment...

I think you will all be happy to know i requested to be banned from Susan's place i am sorry for that comment i wasnt thinking and as soon as the  admin is online i will be gone thank you for all the help

Sorry sorry sorry
Bye love Zoey

I agree. In rape, the only person at fault is the assaulter.

Saying a girl is wrong for wearing the clothes she wants, is like saying a man is wrong for wearing the clothes he wants. People have the basic human right to free expression. A woman can wear slutty clothes, just the same as a man can wear a dress. The general public may find it shocking, but it's still their right to do so.

Edit:
There is no reason to leave Susan's :P

Just apologize, mean it sincerely, and move on. If people want to stay mad it's their problem. You admitted your mistake and you apologized.

Quote from: Samantharz on July 23, 2011, 11:18:04 AM

There is no reason to leave Susan's :P

Just apologize, mean it sincerely, and move on. If people want to stay mad it's their problem. You admitted your mistake and you apologized.

Agreed.

LilKittyCatZoey,
hey hon, so that was not PC what you said and we are all learning the ropes.
I hope you can stay on as far as I go. If that is not PC, too bad.

It is terrible having been raped, the ultimate disempowering experience as it can take years to get over it, if at all.

Yet were I'm concerned, to have some awareness of what may trigger such events is not a bad thing ever. This does not only go for dress, but also the places and people we might mix with.

Yet, if all is said IT STILL CAN HAPPEN AND IT IS VERY HORRIBLE --- UNTHINKABLE.

So, it is a VERY touchy subject as we just have seen once again...

'nough said... else I'd be the next one to get flamed.

Give this girl a chance please, girls and boys

Axelle

Well i am really sorry but either way i will be removed from susans i have only been here 2 weeks already been warned and smited so i will just leave and prevent anymore issues  :) I am not one who enjoys being mean or ever being considered so i will just leave you all alone and prevent anymore fights

Swallow you hurt pride hon, the first step in real learning.
WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES (include me)
Axelle

Quote from: cynthialee on July 23, 2011, 10:13:02 AM
That rape coment was uncalled for.

I have been raped.
Maybe it was my fault because I didn't keep my door properly locked?

I think you read that response wrong, sweety. She was stating that it is never the victim's fault no matter what....even the clothing.


ohh wait...were you talking about kitty's post? sorry~

The term 'slutty' could be described as 'trying much too hard to attract male attention.'

Poor lil kitty  She should come back.

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on July 23, 2011, 06:43:18 PM
Poor lil kitty  She should come back.

Yes.

The top picture is nicely slutty, the second one is just sad and scary.

2 weeks already been warned and smited
Yeah, just take it as a signal that you really are saying something.  And all of life is going to be that way, no one is universally popular all of the time.  Not even me.

Quote from: kyril on July 23, 2011, 10:14:51 AM
How DARE you? I'm a survivor of rape, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one on these boards. You are victim-blaming in the most horrifying way.

When I was raped, I'd just gotten off work, and I was wearing this:
http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/chapter3/FemaleEnlisted/FE_Working/Pages/Coveralls.aspx (http://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/chapter3/FemaleEnlisted/FE_Working/Pages/Coveralls.aspx)

Is that too slutty for you? Is it my fault that I was raped? Is it? Should I have been wearing a burkha?

Plz calm down. I understand you're upset, but Zoey didn't mean any harm.

Allow Kyril his anger.

Allow any of us who have been raped to express our anger at the offensive post in question.

Rape is never justified and victim blaming is never a good idea.

  I think it would be quite difficult for Kyril about this.  When I was in (early 70's), the female enlisted had their own uniform and only a few were attached to reefer and oiler ships by '74.  The younger male enlisted and a certain married E-6 I knew were always hitting on them.  On a base teeming with testosterone, they were the 'Belles of the Ball' despite the lousy dungaree uniforms and the clunky Boondocker boots we all had to wear.  I saw this firsthand.  Rapes were usually not reported.  I only found about the rapes many years later at a hearing in Washington.  I remember two of the women that testified.  This investigation was after the hotshot carrier pilots got it in the wringer from the '91 Tailhook Association Symposium scandal.
  The women were still called WAVES from the old WWII designation back then.  It is not the type of dress, it is the attitude of the male(s) present.  I left all women alone during my tour, a fly on the wall.  Hugs to Kyril.
  Joelene

Tailhook Scandal: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/navy/tailhook/91.html (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/navy/tailhook/91.html)

Zoey, don't cancel your membership over a disagreement. Learn from it and go on but don't run away. Let's all just try to remember that we are adults, keep a civil tone, and not attack each other verbally-we will never agree on everything.

And you aren't the first person here to be warned or reprimanded in some way. Susan removed my 'rep privileges' because she thought I was using it incorrectly-I totally disagree with her but it's her website and she can do what she wants to-I can't. Sure it hurt my feelings but I let my thoughts be known, posted what I did so everybody would know, and stayed here. This has been my home for almost two years and I am not going anywhere for now. Just refrain from personal verbal attacks and you will be fine.

Everybody else-Zoey is young and learning fast-try not to beat her up for her indiscretions-& she did apologize. Yes there are many here who have been sexually assaulted in some way-myself included but lets move on and let her retain some measure of dignity while we can.

Randi

the only thing that i laugh at are the mtf's that go WAY overboard with procedures. Example, lips that would keep them af,oat in a flood, or hips as big as a horses, and boobs that are grotesquely way to big. Oh yeah i forgot the cheek implants that will make anyone look like they are related to little chuckie. I have had no surgeries and everything that I have has been developed using hormones (through a drt, not black market) and when a man sees my body unclothed, it never fails, he is mesmerized by its beauty. Other than that, the "act" is also overboard, but it is a free country. Just my opinion ::)

mtf's that go WAY overboard with procedures.

Of course you live in LA.  You don't need to find an mtf for that.  Plenty of all kinds of people in LA doing that.

Quote from: tekla on July 24, 2011, 10:35:37 AM
mtf's that go WAY overboard with procedures.

Of course you live in LA.  You don't need to find an mtf for that.  Plenty of all kinds of people in LA doing that.

QFT

I know cis girls that have had more plastic surgery than the average trans person will ever have.

yeah yeah yeah whatever. cis women usually dont gets lips that make them look like a fish, etc etc etc.

i can tell that yall are going to make this into something it isnt

let me put it this way, over exaggerating is my point here. i dont mind seeing someone enhance, but to over exagerrat is ridiculous, in my opinion

ridiculous, in my opinion

True, unless that's the look you're going for.  And many are, or at least let's give them the benefit of the doubt and hope so.  Like I said earlier, the difference between Sally Slut and Nancy NiceGirl is about 20 minutes.

I dress fairly conservatively at work... it being a business and all.

If I go out to a bar or go out with some friends, you can bet I don't wear the same thing I wear at work. It's designed to 1)Look good 2)  Look hot and 3) to attract guys.

Here's the thing, every other girl in the place will be wearing the same sort of thing.

Do our modes of dress make all of us slutty? No.
If I were to pick up a different guy every night and sleep with them would that make me slutty? Probably.

Hmmm surely we can not just assume every girl in a tight dress is a slut but someone who dresses to look slutty is a slut. ::) ::) ::)

Some nights I wish to look innocent and sweet, and other nights I don't. All depends on how I feel.  ::) ::) ::)

i've made many mistakes here, but i ended up deleting accounts and then coming back in a new identity. it was just for alot of immature things. i've been coming here since i was about 14, and i didn't apply myself to anything at the time. during then, i pretty much gave up on myself. i had very narrow horrizons, and i came here as more of just a fun thing to do. looking back, i know i've grown alot since then, and i needed people to be there for me more than anything, but i chose not to admit that. i have a bad habit of looking at alot of things as dented cars that i need to replace for something new. if zoey wants to leave, that is her choice, but i have empathy for her, because i've quit at many things.

Hello there sorry i know my apology is some what late and may have lost meaning but i am sorry about the rape comment i had a really bad day and wasnt thinking straight. I did end up deleting my account but thanks to Susan i was able to get reinstated. I am sorry i never meant any harm by what i said, i know it was wrong and thats why i deleted it as soon as i  realized. again i am sorry to have hurt or offend any of you.
Sincerely zoey

Zoey, good girls :-)

Yeah, some lessons may be easier the others, so long we learn and grow (self included).

Put it down to low E if you wish? It REALLY can bring out stuff at times. In all fairness, to be "open" about oneselves thoughts, AND be PC at the same time can be a challenge --- and not just for you alone.

Welcome back girl,
Axelle

there are various choices we can make when it comes to presenting ourselves:

1. a hoochie mama
2. a slutty prostitute
3. business like and professional
4. a little bit of class

I say to each their own but we need to be classy

Quote from: Axélle on July 25, 2011, 06:10:46 AM
Zoey, good girls :-)

Yeah, some lessons may be easier the others, so long we learn and grow (self included).

Put it down to low E if you wish? It REALLY can bring out stuff at times. In all fairness, to be "open" about oneselves thoughts, AND be PC at the same time can be a challenge --- and not just for you alone.

Welcome back girl,
Axelle

No judging but i did cry after being attack for my comment though i have always cried easily thats why generally i am a nice girl  :D and i did deserve the attack

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 25, 2011, 09:16:45 AM
there are various choices we can make when it comes to presenting ourselves:

1. a hoochie mama
2. a slutty prostitute
3. business like and professional
4. a little bit of class

I say to each their own but we need to be classy

haha love the hoochie mama one lol

*lick*

someone who dresses to look slutty is a slut

One is a fashion choice the other is an ongoing set of behaviors.  The first is easy to change, the second not so much - if you would even want to.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on July 25, 2011, 10:51:10 AM
*lick*

lol love your avatar and dodge your lick!  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on July 25, 2011, 09:16:45 AM
there are various choices we can make when it comes to presenting ourselves:

1. a hoochie mama
2. a slutty prostitute
3. business like and professional
4. a little bit of class

I say to each their own but we need to be classy

"Business like and professional".   My mother has to dress formally and conservatively all day at work.   This means dark skirt suits or dark formal trousers with a crisp tailor blouse - white or pale pink.    My mother can't wait to get out of this 'uniform' as she calls it.  At the weekend she likes to slouch about the house dressed very casually.   You should try wearing a black pinstripe skirt and jacket with black tights, black shoes and black handbag on a Summer's day like my mother.    I wear shorts and bare legs, though I do sometimes wear 40 denier black opaque tights with my denim shorts.

1. a hoochie mama
2. a slutty prostitute
3. business like and professional
4. a little bit of class


Look at those choices.  It seems that according to the author of that pos,t women can be divided into under-dressed shameless flirts, $2.00 prostitutes and the Grand Duchess Lavinia Fergiana Morticia DeVere  Dowager Duchess of Snobland.    :laugh:   Just look about you and see all the different types of women that there are.   You won't see many floosies, nymphomaniacs, stuffy office matrons and Empresses.   You will see young girls and young women just being young.  You are much more likely to see frumpy down-trodden, underpaid, world-weary office drones than your so-called classy lady.  Many women have husbands and children and cannot afford $50.00 pantyhose and $500 shoes, or a $1000 handbag.

there are various choices we can make when it comes to presenting ourselves:

1. a hoochie mama
2. a slutty prostitute
3. business like and professional
4. a little bit of class

Where is 'total slob' on that list?  Where is the ever-fit look of constant workout clothes?  Or the jeans/t-shirt/hoodie look?  Or women in uniform (army, cops, Catholic schoolgirls)?  Seems kind of limited.

Quote from: tekla on July 25, 2011, 04:43:00 PM
Where is the ever-fit look of constant workout clothes?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_zczA6WMQtZ0%2FTUQ7kccUPxI%2FAAAAAAAAABE%2Fw8EUwNscTH4%2Fs1600%2Ffashion_disaster2.jpg&hash=f0849435392c3af2cd9ecf2daeddb3a2188962e4)

Well considering what most people look like at that age all I can say is, you go!

Quote from: tekla on July 25, 2011, 04:43:00 PM
there are various choices we can make when it comes to presenting ourselves:

1. a hoochie mama
2. a slutty prostitute
3. business like and professional
4. a little bit of class

Where is 'total slob' on that list?  Where is the ever-fit look of constant workout clothes?  Or the jeans/t-shirt/hoodie look?  Or women in uniform (army, cops, Catholic schoolgirls)?  Seems kind of limited.

Lol catholic school girls. May i just say i have seen more catholic school girls pass out than anyone from any other stereotype and yay over 200 posts to this thread people your all amazing  :D :D

The best thing about Catholic Schoolgirls, even better than the uniforms, or the fact that usually they tend to be at least semi-articulate & well read (and I'm not having any sort of relationship, much less a sexual one with anyone who does not have lots of books in their house), nope, the very best thing about them is that because they grew up Catholic in Catholic School sex will always be dirty to them.  And dirty sex is the best sex you can get for love or money.

This seems to me like the instances when people (mainly feminists) say that dressing slutty, stripping or being a "adult film star" is empowering to women. I dont see any of that as empowering- to me its more like counter productive.  All of that stuff is just more distasteful than anything but slutty women mtf or otherwise are a dime a dozen

Tekla,
Gotta find some Catholic Schoolgirls! Dirty sex ever sounding so promising. LOL

Unfortunately I ONLY went to a protestant boarding school and yes I know, we only second best, ->-bleeped-<-e! :-)

Still the earlier in transition and the earlier into HRT, the sluttier one feels like to dress. The whole dirty spiel, wiggle your booty in 4" (5"?) heels --- heya, it's sooo nice.
Going shopping like that or to my GP, eh, even we have SOME dress sense early on.
And then, every GG is coming down on you because you look like a hooker or hootchie cootchie mama.

Never got me any ripped net-stocking though --- my loss, I know. Oh hell.

Axelle

And then, every GG is coming down on you because you look like a hooker or hootchie cootchie mama.
Only because their boyfriends are paying more attention to you then they are to them.

Yeah, I see you found out too, um.

GG jealousy of TG, because we more likely to "hang out of the bus".
Gosh they need to give you 1001 reasons why the dress in rubber clogs, loose jeans and saggy t-shirts.
Sore feet, saggy ass, droopy boobs, bad bra, and in major need of comfort, heehee.

Too funny,
Axelle

I work at a major rock and roll venue in one of Rock and Roll's flagship cities.  It's a city with a huge rave culture and all that goes with that.  It's a city with a huge public above-ground, not underground, pansexual kink culture.  A city that is considered one of the most diverse, liberal, gay, rich, sophisticated, cosmopolitan cities in the world.  Most of the anti-comments on this thread read like hicks from the sticks who saw something on TV once.  If they really knew what all these women who I see constantly were really wearing I'm pretty sure they'd have a heart attack.  And that's the 'nice girls'. 

Well that's L.A. for you.

Now lets check say Boise ID... and we'd have a better match, or?

When I was wearing my hem line to short for my shrink (normal mini, not really pussy pelmet) he gave me a big freak on.

What you said, I tried to explain (a bit kinder though), and was told to go (in this case Jo'burg Sandton) and find a shrink there. Like ->-bleeped-<- off then already.

Self must also be lacking some major dose of conservatism for the place I stay these days.

Can't always get what you want... um.

Axelle

Quote from: Julie Marie on July 25, 2011, 05:36:23 PM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_zczA6WMQtZ0%2FTUQ7kccUPxI%2FAAAAAAAAABE%2Fw8EUwNscTH4%2Fs1600%2Ffashion_disaster2.jpg&hash=f0849435392c3af2cd9ecf2daeddb3a2188962e4)

That is Sir Jimmy Saville a well known British Disc Jockey and television presenter.

"When I was wearing my hem line to short for my shrink (normal mini, not really pussy pelmet) he gave me a big freak on."


They tell what to wear?!!!    Well that is the medical profession for you and psychiatrists in particular, they treat you as a mental patient until you have proved otherwise.     If you go to a shrink expect to be shrunk.  Go to a doctor and you will be given pills and surgery.  Go to a priest and he will say 'your going to hell unless you bow down before the might of the Catholic Church.'   Call out an electrician and he will say 'haw missis yur whole hoose neeeds rewiring say it does.'

"When I was wearing my hem line to short for my shrink (normal mini, not really pussy pelmet) he gave me a big freak on."


To be serious for a moment, psychiatrists that deal with gender issues want to see what sort of a woman you think you are.    Dress like a university first year at 60 and you will be classified as a fetishistic transvestite.   However, if you go all prim and proper, he will write ' patient has unrealistic views of what a woman should be.'    That is why I do my own thing, I don't require anyone's approval - well except my mother's - and I don't scare the horses.

LA?  Oh god no, I live in SF.  No one in the world get to compete with LA in this kind of stuff.  LA is where Brittney Spears can wear a micro-mini and get out of a limo in such a way that we don't just get to find out what color her panties are, we're all (because it's LA it's being photographed for posterity) finding out in detail when the last time she shaved the beaver is and it's looking like it was just a few hours ago.  No where else can compete with LA in this kind of stuff.

@Tekla, the way you sounded SO spunky, and into that fab environment just meant -- L.A. José ! :-)

So it's SF, 'k...
LA's a big spread, and SF has soul --- or some such, yes?

In my finding, the many times I was there in the late 90s and early 2000, it gave me a more benign pic. Though I stayed mostly out in the valley, Cupertino, Mountain View, Santa Cruz even and such.

Maybe I missed the night live scene?
LA daily life = night live.
Like bring it on honey, and shake your booty. :-)

So, you would have some tuned-in shrinks there I guess (SF) ?

What @Princes is saying though - is SO true.
My type was the "gate-keeper" type, and he felt I wanted to pass through the Pearly Gates to feminity. He is male homosexual, no less, wanting to be St. Peter? OMG?!
I could never shake the idea he'd some issues with females, GG or TG.
An absolute control freak.
Must have offended him with my dress code more then once, like "unrealistic ideas about womanhood"... ->-bleeped-<-!!!!!!!!!
Once I tuned into his expectations I started to pass his gate... "overcoming my obstacles!" him being the obstacle as he pointed out after me questioning: "What obstacles?!"

That's just a reminder how VERY necessary dress code becomes when you need to get something you NEED!

So, don't show your hold-ups honey, down with that hem line. Max 2" heels, AND go LIGHT on the make up, lest interviewing for a place in hooker street.

Life's a bitch --- where did I put that chocolate, dang???!!

Axelle

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on July 26, 2011, 04:57:35 PM
To be serious for a moment, psychiatrists that deal with gender issues want to see what sort of a woman you think you are.    Dress like a university first year at 60 and you will be classified as a fetishistic transvestite.   However, if you go all prim and proper, he will write ' patient has unrealistic views of what a woman should be.'    That is why I do my own thing, I don't require anyone's approval - well except my mother's - and I don't scare the horses.

I think every therapist is different when it comes to this issue.

For example, what I wore to my therapist was what I was wearing that day. I didn't really dress for the appointment but I do dress "conservatively."

I cannot read into my therapists mind but I believe because I presented nicely and was usually in a good mood when I visited her, I got my letters fairly quickly. HRT in one month and SRS letter in 6  months (I had already been living fulltime as Annah before I saw her).

My motto is, if the therapist has unrealistic expectations on how a trans should dress and even dressing conservatively is offensive to the therapist then you need to find another. If there are no others in your area there are a lot of certified therapists and psychs who will do phone consultations and make it count as if you were face to face and many of them do financial sliding scales based on your income.

Removed due to unnecessary fighting over it

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 27, 2011, 11:56:50 PM
The nice thing is you dont need to be full time for your letters  :D :D like me 4 months and i got both  :D

you got SRS letters without being fulltime and in 4 months??? To be honest, you are the first girl I met ever that accomplished that because WPATH requires full time experience to be eligible for SRS.  I thought you stated in an earlier thread you are just starting the transition?

You also stated you are 17 .


These are the requirements of getting SRS letters (Per WPATH on their website):

Eligibility Criteria. These minimum eligibility criteria for various genital surgeries equally
apply to biologic males and females seeking genital surgery. They are:
1. Legal age of majority in the patient's nation;
2. Usually 12 months of continuous hormonal therapy for those without a medical
contraindication
3. 12 months of successful continuous full time real-life experience. Periods of returning to
the original gender may indicate ambivalence about proceeding and generally should not
be used to fulfill this criterion;
4. If required by the mental health professional, regular responsible participation in
psychotherapy throughout the real-life experience at a frequency determined jointly by
the patient and the mental health professional. Psychotherapy per se is not an absolute
eligibility criterion for surgery;
5. Demonstrable knowledge of the cost, required lengths of hospitalizations, likely
complications, and post surgical rehabilitation requirements of various surgical
approaches;
6. Awareness of different competent surgeons.

removed due to causing of aggressive comments.

you think this is porn? (LOL)
Pattaya Pattaya (Beautiful ->-bleeped-<-s) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1VHtKmJqLU#)

Extra

Stutty clothes are the better of summer xD

*  South africa has a very open constitution dont ask me how but i was examined by some of the head gender therapists in my country and took countless tests. i have the letter its just not valid till i go full time     but i still have it and yip been on puberty blockers since feb and e since june. *

1) The "open constitution" has nothing at all to do with any of that, sorry. Recall, WAPTH is internationally recognised by surgeons.

2) * by some of the head gender therapists * ? Really, please don't tell that was Dr. Franco Colin, psychiatrist in Pretoria!
Then you do use the plural... there is only that one!
He the ONLY gatekeeper for Steve Biko Academic Hospital gender-clinic.
There was Dr. Levinson, now long retired who was gatekeeper for Dr. Ladas who has not done any SRS for over 10 years. He decided to stop. Had too may problems. What you relate sounds not right to me at all.
Also, Colin INSISTS on 1 year with him on RLE, R450-00 for 15min. First consultation R 980 for 50min. Must see at least every month, and he does NOT prescribe HRT at all.
Have no idea who you where seeing... to call some of the head gender therapists...

3) You may have gotten AA but not really E.
Dr. Colin is not usurped by ANY psychiatrists! They all scared to touch that "hot iron" GRS. There were plenty issues with come backs not so long ago.

4) Lastly there is Prof. Lindeque, head of gynaecology at Steve Biko. AND I KNOW FIRST HAND HE DOES NOT ACCEPT ANY OTHER "LETTERS" FROM ANY OTHER THEN DR. COLIN.

So.... I don't know what your "letter" has cost you, but even if you take it to Thailand they will not very likely except it under the current given circumstances. My best guess.

If that sounds like a "dumper" for you right now, you BETTER do your full time 1 year RLE and HRT lest you be disappointed later on. Just my take, there are REASONS.

I know we are all impatient (include me) but I accept there are good reasons to follow WAPTH "rules/guidelines".
And BTW, SA follows very closely what is done in the UK, it has nothing to do with our constitution.
So don't mess with your health all I shall say.

Axelle

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 28, 2011, 07:11:25 AM
  South africa has a very open constitution dont ask me how but i was examined by some of the head gender therapists in my country and took countless tests. i have the letter its just not valid till i go full time  :D :D :D but i still have it and yip been on puberty blockers since feb and e since june.

WPATH is international and South Africa also follows it.

So I don't still understand how you got SRS letters without doing the Real Life Experience first or even started to transition yet (except for taking AA).

smells bovine feces.....

Lets move on so i notice that again the embarrasses me option in the poll takes the lead.... have we all gone mad!!!!

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 28, 2011, 10:22:24 AM
Lets move on so i notice that again the embarrasses me option in the poll takes the lead.... have we all gone mad!!!!

I dont think we went crazy...its just that when you say you got your srs letters without transitioning first, you're gonna get some backlash from it.

Quote from: Annah on July 28, 2011, 10:29:45 AM
I dont think we went crazy...its just that when you say you got your srs letters without transitioning first, you're gonna get some backlash from it.

moving on ..... i hope you voted Annah  :P :P

Quote from: Narela on July 28, 2011, 07:25:42 AM
you think this is porn? (LOL)
Pattaya Pattaya (Beautiful ->-bleeped-<-s) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1VHtKmJqLU#)

Extra

Stutty clothes are the better of summer xD

WHY WOULD YOU POST A THREAD TO SOMETHING YOU THINK IS PORN??????????????????????????????? SERIOUSLY ??????????? WHY!!!

I am pretty sure Narela did not think it was porn and was just fishing to see if anyone would bite the troll bait.

Quote from: cynthialee on July 28, 2011, 12:13:35 PM
I am pretty sure Narela did not think it was porn and was just fishing to see if anyone would bite the troll bait.

Still posting a thread to porn on my topic is sooo not cool :( :(

It's not porn. I think the point was "I bet you think this is porn too don't you?" kind of sarcastically. when it is just a bunch of girls dressed up in a revealing way.

i'm starting to find this thread pretty comical. i've already done what i was supposed to do, and vote, but it's been such a conflict the whole way through.

Oh, it's been that funny since the beginning.  Really someone in a Catholic HS in a very conservative country has a way different outlook than, say, girls in LA.

Quote from: cynthialee on July 28, 2011, 12:13:35 PM
I am pretty sure Narela did not think it was porn and was just fishing to see if anyone would bite the troll bait.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motifake.com%2Fimage%2Fdemotivational-poster%2F0903%2Fepic-face-palm-face-palm-demotivational-poster-1236742013.jpg&hash=2b2db6432e9e24d5e749411f4a60f3b7d347c064)

Quote from: Da Monkey on July 28, 2011, 12:52:09 PM
It's not porn. I think the point was "I bet you think this is porn too don't you?" kind of sarcastically. when it is just a bunch of girls dressed up in a revealing way.

Exactly  >:-)

I wouldnt know my cell phone cant play utube  :D :D

Did I miss something? I didn't see any porno images-just some girls in pretty clothes. We are not the ones who are mad-the rest of the world is mad and we are the link to sanity-I think-therefore I am!

Try not to take the responses so seriously Zoey, you will be much happier if you can let them just bounce off into the distance.

Randi

Honestly the girls I would call that wouldn't give a hoot what I or anyone else thinks-period. They think they are very hot & sexy and are quick to tell me, you, & the rest of the world to go ____ themselves: not trying to be difficult for you-I'm just sayin'.

lol, nice one Narela!

seeming i cant watch the video i will have to take the fact all of you say they just girls in cloths :D :D ok but he call it porn?

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 29, 2011, 03:11:35 AM
seeming i cant watch the video i will have to take the fact all of you say they just girls in cloths :D :D ok but he call it porn?

The message was only for you
Read this first http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm) 
 

Quote from: Narela on July 28, 2011, 07:25:42 AM
you think this is porn? (LOL)
Pattaya Pattaya (Beautiful ->-bleeped-<-s) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1VHtKmJqLU#)

Extra

Stutty clothes are the better of summer xD

Quote from: LilKittyCatZoey on July 29, 2011, 03:11:35 AM
ok but he call it porn?

~RoadToTrista~ you were right, i gonna change my avatar XD