Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Kind of a rant, but at work I'm the only genetic female and unfortunately I'm short, small, and have rather feminine features.  I recently decided to cut my hair much more intentionally masculine, I cut my eyelashes shorter cause they made me look very feminine, and drop my voice lower than nec natural and yet 40 year old men still call me "hon" "sweetie" "sweatheart" "babe" etc.  I'm not a violent guy, but seriously, wtf?  I wouldn't be cool with it if I identified as female and since I don't I just feel even more pissed off and embarassed about it esp since I don't know how to pass better.  The only indication that I'm sort of passing at all is the dirty/weird looks I've been getting from some of our wonderful customers...but they probably think I'm a butch lesbian, and I am neither.

Sorry, it's just been a really long f-ing day of this.   :P Anyone else have any stories of mass irritation?

I make sure to stamp this one out before it can even get started. >:(

Look them directly in the eye, and tell them it's not okay to call you those things. 'I have a name, call me by it, or don't call me anything' is a good one. You don't have to give yourself away to do this, just tell them those kind of names are inappropriate, and you're offended by them. If after that they don't stop, tell them they can drop it, or face workplace harassment charges for inappropriate conduct.

It's definitely not okay, even if you were female it still wouldn't be okay, and the fact that you're not just makes the comments even more damaging. Put a stop to it before it drives you mad. :)

I'm with Max,

Even if you were female those comments would mount to sexual harassment. They are totally inappropriate in a working environment with the possible exception of a strip club. And even there they are incorrect. Can you report this to management HR etc?

Cindy 

Thanks both of you  :)

Thanks Max, I've actually been debating doing that cause it has been driving me pretty nuts lately.  Glad to not feel like I'm making something out of nothing.

Cindy: I can't really cause it's a mom and pop kinda restaurant work place so if I'm working with my boss he's usually in the kitchen area and can't do much and otherwise I'm working with coworkers who aren't really in a position to.  But thanks for the advice.  :)

Yeah no worries. :) I know what I said might have sounded harsh, but with something like this you have to be firm for your words to have any kind of effect. And no, definitely not making something out of nothing. :)

i think you should try to pass better as a whole and if you post some pictures i could help you with that.

Honest and probably a stupid question....
How is this sexual harassment?  Or any other type of harassment?

if you don't feel like doing anything drastic about it, the easiest thing would be to simply not understand they're talking to you whenever they use pet names that you don't like. in the end they'll get used to saying your name if they want your attention

Quote from: Taka on July 17, 2011, 05:57:29 PM
if you don't feel like doing anything drastic about it, the easiest thing would be to simply not understand they're talking to you whenever they use pet names that you don't like. in the end they'll get used to saying your name if they want your attention

How many restaurants do you go into where you know the waitress by name? Very few for me.

In order for harassment charges to stick, you have to tell them to stop and make a formal complaint. That is hard to do with people off the street unless they are a regular customer.

Quote from: Sharky on July 17, 2011, 05:55:57 PM
Honest and probably a stupid question....
How is this sexual harassment?  Or any other type of harassment?

Calling people a derogatory or sexual based name is sexual harassment. A male calling a female secretary, babe is sexual harassment. It is demeaning and uncalled for.  Certainly in Australia you will be done like toast. There have been a number of high profile cases were executives have been sued for millions for sexual comments to female staff. And not asking for F etc. Just inappropriate comments.

Cindy

Yup, I agree with Cindy, you'd get roasted here for that. I have never been called any of these things by customers or collegues, except for one time when a very elderly gentleman called me 'darling'. It's the general consensus that it's rude to call someone by these kinds of names, and yes, in the workforce it is definitely enough to class as sexual harassment.

Quote from: LordKAT on July 17, 2011, 10:13:35 PM
How many restaurants do you go into where you know the waitress by name? Very few for me.

if that's the biggest problem, it would help if the coworkers and regular customers use his real name. acting homophobic instead of harassed might also be an idea. most guys wouldn't like to be hit on with pet names for a female, would they? so just look like you seriously doubt their sexual orientation

Quote from: MaxAloysius on July 18, 2011, 03:03:14 AM
Yup, I agree with Cindy, you'd get roasted here for that. I have never been called any of these things by customers or collegues, except for one time when a very elderly gentleman called me 'darling'. It's the general consensus that it's rude to call someone by these kinds of names, and yes, in the workforce it is definitely enough to class as sexual harassment.

I would make exceptions for the elderly customer, being called darling or dear by a pensioner is OK by me  :laugh:. If a male colleague says, babe you look hot today can you do this typing sweety. I'd cut his balls off and make him eat them without extra BBQ sauce. >:-). And if anyone even got close to saying something to me in my professional life they would be fired on the spot. Fortunately, I am the boss, I have also lambasted females for being rude to guys, same thing. Respect is a two way street.

Cindy

you can do what i do (i still have a pretty high voice and i answer phones at my neighbors pizza shop) anytime they say babe or honey or anything like that i just simply say i hope you mean sir, not only does it catch them off gaurd but also a lot of older men are homophobic so no they think they just hit on another guy. it is so funny even in person their faces are priceless.

Thanks to everyone so far for their input.  Yeah, it's really just from customers and I find it harassing but since it's from people off the street, like LordKat said, legally there's not really anything I could, or would, really do about it.  Haha in the case of my coworkers I have absolutely no problems telling them were to stick it esp since my little bro also works with me. 

I like your suggestion Drew, esp since a lot of these guys seem to be pretty homophobic/"other"-phobic.  I live in central New Jersey (let me clarify 90% of the males and females out here are nothing like the ppl from 'Jersey Shore'), and generally speaking it's a pretty liberal and safe place, the area I live is relatively safe for GLBTQ etc, but I live in one of the conservative areas and there's a lot of older guys that feel they have the right to be over familiar and somewhat "claiming" of anything younger and female (apparently even if they don't identify as such) so yeah it's not just the words per se but the whole attitude etc cause despite there being a counter between us sometimes the creepy ones are leaning over it so much that I have to back up.  Idk, I don't like receiving it for multiple reasons, but it's also just not a way I would treat a woman.

I'm not out at work yet and it's a small place, so I may not be able to correct them with sir, but I'm gonna try to find something that'll work for me.  Or just say screw it and let everyone deal with their possible discomfort  :D

Quote from: Windmill on July 18, 2011, 10:52:07 PM
Thanks to everyone so far for their input.  Yeah, it's really just from customers and I find it harassing but since it's from people off the street, like LordKat said, legally there's not really anything I could, or would, really do about it.  Haha in the case of my coworkers I have absolutely no problems telling them were to stick it esp since my little bro also works with me. 

I like your suggestion Drew, esp since a lot of these guys seem to be pretty homophobic/"other"-phobic.  I live in central New Jersey (let me clarify 90% of the males and females out here are nothing like the ppl from 'Jersey Shore'), and generally speaking it's a pretty liberal and safe place, the area I live is relatively safe for GLBTQ etc, but I live in one of the conservative areas and there's a lot of older guys that feel they have the right to be over familiar and somewhat "claiming" of anything younger and female (apparently even if they don't identify as such) so yeah it's not just the words per se but the whole attitude etc cause despite there being a counter between us sometimes the creepy ones are leaning over it so much that I have to back up.  Idk, I don't like receiving it for multiple reasons, but it's also just not a way I would treat a woman.

I'm not out at work yet and it's a small place, so I may not be able to correct them with sir, but I'm gonna try to find something that'll work for me.  Or just say screw it and let everyone deal with their possible discomfort  :D

i live right outside jersey and it is nothing like jersey shore that beach is like 45 min from my house and it is so different than how they make it seem.

you can always just say id perfer it if you called me by my name that is what my coworker does, when they say baby or babe or anyhting she says well my name is jen and id rather you call me that i feel like it is better for the work place that way and she just smiles, personally i like working with her cuz shes gorgeous so i just stay in the back like a loser haha

Quote from: drew:) on July 18, 2011, 11:25:55 PM
i live right outside jersey and it is nothing like jersey shore that beach is like 45 min from my house and it is so different than how they make it seem.

you can always just say id perfer it if you called me by my name that is what my coworker does, when they say baby or babe or anyhting she says well my name is jen and id rather you call me that i feel like it is better for the work place that way and she just smiles, personally i like working with her cuz shes gorgeous so i just stay in the back like a loser haha

Haha, my coworkers and I like to make fun of the ones (when they leave) that look like they just popped right out of the show.  And yeah, that's a good idea, I think a lot of it is just me having to swallow my irritation cause it's a really small place physically so my coworkers will pretty much overhear and question me about whatever I say andI work with ppl from high school and their friends haha and they're idiots   :P  Sorry, I'm just being a whiner.  Haha and staying in the back does not equal loser, in my job we all fight for that position...I just always get shoved to working with customers because I'm the only one that doesn't publicly lose their cool with ->-bleeped-<-s.  I wish I had a gorgeous coworker  ;) but c'est la vie.  :)

Quote from: Cindy James on July 18, 2011, 02:42:18 AM
Calling people a derogatory or sexual based name is sexual harassment. A male calling a female secretary, babe is sexual harassment. It is demeaning and uncalled for.  Certainly in Australia you will be done like toast. There have been a number of high profile cases were executives have been sued for millions for sexual comments to female staff. And not asking for F etc. Just inappropriate comments.

Cindy

What if it's not in a sexual based way? Is using the names mentioned always considered derogatory or demeaning in Australia? Im from the Philly area and New Jersey. Both men and women say these things all the time here.

Quote from: Sharky on July 22, 2011, 09:54:51 PM
What if it's not in a sexual based way? Is using the names mentioned always considered derogatory or demeaning in Australia? Im from the Philly area and New Jersey. Both men and women say these things all the time here.

Hey, I'm from/in New Jersey myself.  From what I've learned from a couple college classes on the subject (human sexuality and business class when my business exec prof got started on a rant) basically sexual harassment (in a workplace setting) consitutes anything of a remotely sexual nature that makes someone feel uncomfortable, which, from my understanding would be consisting of remarks/jokes/names/groping/etc from coworker to coworker, boss to employee, vice versa and so on.  I know it sounds really vague, but apparently it really is that vague...which why it, unfortunately, can be an easily abused accusation (i.e. my prof was informed by lawyers/harassment teachers at his office that if he happened to say a sexually based joke in the work place to another coworker in a quiet tone that he assumed no one else could hear if another coworker happened to overhear this joke and was offended they could claim they were sexually harassed if they really wanted to).  Basically it's vague enough that someone only has to prove that they feel they are being harassed in a way that is pertaining to anything sexual, the key word being 'feel'.  So calling someone 'babe' 'hon' 'sweetheart' in a way perceived as a come on or in an unwanted fashion could be sexual harassment in a workplace , but it'd prob be a complaint to h.r. or something, idk.  In my workplace it's super creepy customers that do this, and it's obviously sexual and really ->-bleeped-<-ing annoying, haha when it's not sexual I don't notice/don't care, I don't know if you've got super creepers near you, but in my part of NJ apparently the super creeps of all ages like to come into where I work, but customers only, so no sexual harassment, if it was coworkers it would be.  Sorry for the long windedness rant that that was/  :P

QuoteWhat if it's not in a sexual based way? Is using the names mentioned always considered derogatory or demeaning in Australia? Im from the Philly area and New Jersey. Both men and women say these things all the time here.

Generally speaking in a workplace yes. People who are familiar with you, and who have this kind of relationship with you can call you these names, but it's not acceptable in a working environment.

What Max said.

There is a place for close friends to use sexually based pet names. It is called home. At work we are professional people, and anything that lowers that professional approach is to be stopped. Ok I call my lover 'sweetie' at work, what does that allow others to call him?

If  I tell my secretary that her push up bra is really enhancing, what message does that give her co-workers?

It is called respect.

Respect is what makes people of different genders, religion. colour, ethnic background, etc get on together.

'Well hi cutie pie, you sure do my eyes good ' Is not respectful.

Babe get me a coffee is not respectful.

If it is in a persons job description then, " Miss Allen, can you please arrange for three coffees in the board room please. Thank you" When they arrive. 'Thank you Miss Allen, that was very kind of you'

Do you see the difference? And not just board room that was to empathise 

Cindy