Susan's Place Transgender Resources

We talk alot about how we feel, and that's important but... How do you wish you were viewed? Male? Female? Androgyn? Other entirely? Just curious.
I know how I am seen...fem. Butch fem sometimes...but decidedly fem. I wish more folks knew about androgyns and saw me as such...but that's yet to be the case. Or..male one day and female the next. That'd work for me too. There's balance in that.
How 'bout you?

I'd like to be seen as cute - I have a quote which sums up what qualities cute has that I aspire to,

"Cuteness is distinct from beauty, researchers say, emphasising rounded over sculptured, soft over refined, clumsy over quick. Beauty attracts admiration and demands a pedestal; cuteness attracts affection and demands a lap. Beauty is rare and brutal, despoiled by a single pimple. Cuteness is commonplace and generous, content on occasion to cosegregate with homeliness."

  - Can't attribute it I'm afraid.

Now, cuteness is generally seem as a feminine trait and when I am in an envying mood I envy women their bodies much more than men, but it's their cuteness I envy, not their femaleness.

I just want to be seen and heard as what I am, an older woman.

My husband (FTM) says he was going for studly but has to be satified with 'cute old curmudgeon'.

Robyn

I would love to actually be recognized as what I am, non binary gender, but society seems to be stuck in two. A second best would be to be seen as a woman...

Z

A lot of times, I want to be seen either as cute or as an androgynous/feminine guy. I love it when people can't tell my sex, and when they do finally go one way or the other, I prefer they see me as male. It bothers me a lot to be seen as female -- physically painful at times. Androgyny is fantastic and male is perfect.

Sometimes it depends on my company. I'm mostly friends with feminine people. With girls, I get annoyed when they see me as a girl, but I don't mind being seen as feminine. Although I'm starting to dislike being out as gay, because so few understand panromanticism and therefore don't view me as a potential date. With guys, I don't like being seen as female, and I get uncomfortable being feminine. It seems like femininity makes it harder for them to see you as male. But, I prefer the company of feminine individuals. It feels more freeing at times -- although a healthy dose of masculinity never hurt.

I don't particularly care how I am seen.
Usually, I have to depend on people telling me whether I'm a boy or a girl this day.
Some days I wear makeup and lipstick and I dress extremely fem, and I still get called a guy.
And then I go out with no attempt at beautify, And then I get called a girl.

Some days I go out all though, hardcore rocker style, and people call me "lady"
Some days I dress so gay, tight pants and spagethi tops, and people call me "bro".

Some other times, though, it does fit. I'm lovin' it.

Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on July 18, 2011, 08:05:12 AM
I don't particularly care how I am seen.
Usually, I have to depend on people telling me whether I'm a boy or a girl this day.
Some days I wear makeup and lipstick and I dress extremely fem, and I still get called a guy.

Based on your profile pic, I just don't get how someone could see you as a boy!

Z

Quote from: Zythyra on July 18, 2011, 09:55:07 AM
Based on your profile pic, I just don't get how someone could see you as a boy!

Z

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Zadkiel/2011-05-11-193358.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Zadkiel/2011-05-11-193358.jpg)
It takes more effort to appear in a certain way, than it is to appear as natural.

I love that quote Pica Pica, and cute is certainly something I like to be considered as. I also understand the envying of general female cuteness.

people who are older than me call me cute. people around my age often seem unable to find suiting words to describe me as my personality is much less girly than my feminine body might suggest, but some say i'm nice. and those who know me are the only ones who seem to have realized i'm actually a closet sadist, they wouldn't ever call me cute

and how do i want to be seen? awesome would be best, but i don't think i can live up to that. anything would be good really, as long as i'm not seen as a female = sexual object / natural bottom. actually i wouldn't like to be seen as any specific gender role, don't know what that leaves me with

I wish I could be seen as dual regarding gender - but people insist on seeing me as either a wall-flower (all relatives except my parents and sister which I came out to) or as a plain lesbian (colleagues).

Now, I finally want to adopt a masculine role, either as butch-lesbian or as a gay boy (as I'm into both  ;D) - so I'm going to dress and act manly and let society guess which one they see every new day, hehe.

Greets,
Alex

Hi Zaida

quote:I don't particularly care how I am seen.
Usually, I have to depend on people telling me whether I'm a boy or a girl this day.
Some days I wear makeup and lipstick and I dress extremely fem, and I still get called a guy.

Now that I have seen the other pic, just like Zythyra I don't understand how can anybody see you as a boy, I just don't get it, your face is so feminine.
I hope I'm not offending you but I can only see you as a girl and a pretty one too.

hugs
Annette

Quote from: annette on July 18, 2011, 06:05:38 PM
Hi Zaida

Now that I have seen the other pic, just like Zythyra I don't understand how can anybody see you as a boy, I just don't get it, your face is so feminine.
I hope I'm not offending you but I can only see you as a girl and a pretty one too.

hugs
Annette

Your quoting is strange.
And you can't see me as a girl because a) you don't have much familiarity with the genetic variations of the local area (i.e. méxico) b) you are projecting a wish upon me, c) it's a hand-picked picture which I supose shows the most fem side I could get, as I usually delete the pictures which scream "boy". d) pixels. e) I happen to have an outie, and people sometimes can tell, regardless my half-arsed efforts. f) My attitude changes a lot depending upon the day of the month, so I sometimes may look "fem" but act like the manliest man. Perks of androgyny.

I hope that helps you understanding.

Quote from: i on July 19, 2011, 12:51:02 AM
How do I wish to be seen? Very little if at all anymore. There are to many people hiding behind facades just to ->-bleeped-<- with peoples heads.
I won't play that game, I'm grown up. I'm not a childish 20something. Want my advice? To fricken bad.
Opinion with something to back it up with? To fricken bad.
You know who you are, and so do I.
Later, if at all
Ativan

if someone is bothering you, you should report it to the mods, and ignore that person, instead of get all passive-agressive.
Just sayin'

*tiptoes around previous subject*  Okay then...

I'm most often seen as a girl, which, when I'm actually trying to be a girl, is fine.

But if I'm trying to look/act masculine and I'm seen as a girl, it bothers me.  Hopefully the more I work on my voice, and my self-confidence with my mannerisms, the less that will happen.

I like being seen as 'a slightly effeminate male.'  That's just my style.  And I seem to be getting pretty good at it, and I'm getting to that place where I pass much easier.

And I love it when people can't tell.  Not because of the whole, "I'm messing with their heads," thing, I just...sometimes like being seen as 'neutral' on the gender spectrum. 

And if I'm going for 'neutral,' then I don't mind being called either boy or girl, I'll answer to both.  And it feels like if people just can't tell, then I don't have to worry about passing so much.  I can do whatever mannerisms I feel like at that moment, and it works out. 

I can also switch back and forth between roles easier that way, because my clothes aren't the gender, I am.  The clothes are just a tool in helping me express that gender.

Quote from: Taka on July 18, 2011, 01:25:46 PM
and those who know me are the only ones who seem to have realized i'm actually a closet sadist, they wouldn't ever call me cute.

I happen to think sadists are adorable.   :P  I think when I'm dominating, I pull off 'the cute sadist' concept well.  And my fiance doesn't complain either, when I give him permission to talk.   >:-)

Quote from: Taka on July 18, 2011, 01:25:46 PM
and how do i want to be seen? awesome would be best, but i don't think i can live up to that. anything would be good really, as long as i'm not seen as a female = sexual object / natural bottom. actually i wouldn't like to be seen as any specific gender role, don't know what that leaves me with

I see you as awesome, if that's any consolation.   :) I can relate to not wanting to be objectified either.  But I've had people objectify me when I'm crossdressing and being 'male' too, so I don't think there's much avoiding it.   :-\

And based on what you've said here, I'd personally see you as 3rd gender, but that's just me.

I prefer to be seen as ambiguous. an amalgamation of genders. Cute would be nice too.

I am me and wish to be seen as such I'm happy with anything except "Normal Male"
most People don't realise that not everyone is Male or Female so I get seen as "What the F***", "man in a dress".  I Like being seen as "WtF"
Most people say nothing so I guess I'm just accepted although I don't know how they see me.
I present as Me with a full beard, breasts, female clothes  pink and purple socks (one of each) and pretty sandal shoes sometimes with lipstick ,eye shadow and/or nail polish.
I sometimes get asked about the odd socks and I reply "I wouldn't want anyone to think I was normal" which generally gets a laugh as that Is the least of what makes me look different.  but it is something people can ask about without  them thinking they might be offensive.
When In "queer safe places" I sometimes get she/her from people who don't know me and that is better then he.

Quote from: Sage on July 19, 2011, 12:34:42 PM
And if I'm going for 'neutral,' then I don't mind being called either boy or girl, I'll answer to both.  And it feels like if people just can't tell, then I don't have to worry about passing so much.  I can do whatever mannerisms I feel like at that moment, and it works out.

that would pretty much be the ideal situation for me, if my gender is underspecified that means it can change shape according to context

Quote from: Sage on July 19, 2011, 12:43:26 PM
I happen to think sadists are adorable.   :P  I think when I'm dominating, I pull off 'the cute sadist' concept well.  And my fiance doesn't complain either, when I give him permission to talk.   >:-)

aww, that really is adorable. sadists can be deadly cute, as long as they just realize i'm badder. now i really want my own fiance, sadly the last person i fell in love with wasn't interested in romance *sigh* heart-break without even going out with the person

and yay! +1 person who thinks i'm awesome, now i just need to go out there and get some more..
but that 3rd gender thing, don't you think i could change it to 0th or 666th or something? "3rd" sounds so inferior to the binaries

actually, how do you even define 3rd gender..?

Gender has no meaning or value if it is counterfeit.
Counterfeit gender is just a game, a trick, an amusement,
an act, a fraud, a deception, an imitation, artificial, bogus.

Be yourself, not a gender.
Being yourself is effortless and genuine.
Being yourself is REAL, not counterfeit.
In being yourself, in behaving in a manner which is natural to you,
whatever gender you are becomes self-evident.

-Emerald

Quote from: Taka on July 19, 2011, 02:17:06 PM
now i really want my own fiance, sadly the last person i fell in love with wasn't interested in romance *sigh* heart-break without even going out with the person

I totally know what you mean.  I had a lot of those before I met the one who I call 'my cute and fuzzy panda bear.'   :P  Some of those previous loves I still think about and the pain, though small and but a shadow of its previous form, is still there, and maybe always will be.

Quote from: Taka on July 19, 2011, 02:17:06 PM
but that 3rd gender thing, don't you think i could change it to 0th or 666th or something? "3rd" sounds so inferior to the binaries

I think the number 3 is the best number in the world.   ;D  So coming from me, it'd be a compliment!

Quote from: Taka on July 19, 2011, 02:17:06 PM
actually, how do you even define 3rd gender..?

Umm...how to describe it...well, the idea of '3rd gender' made sense to me a few minutes ago, but some upsetting stuff just temporarily scrambled my brain, I'd have to get back to you on that.   ???  I'm going to guess 'in-between'?  Something like that?  Maybe?   :P

Hi Zaida

I'm not projecting a wish upon you.
I am only reacting on what you show to the forum, nothing more, nothing less.
But, i understand that you don't want to hear such comments, even when the intention is good, so i won't say anything about it anymore.

Annette

Quote from: Sage on July 19, 2011, 02:29:37 PM
I totally know what you mean.  I had a lot of those before I met the one who I call 'my cute and fuzzy panda bear.'   :P  Some of those previous loves I still think about and the pain, though small and but a shadow of its previous form, is still there, and maybe always will be.

ah, the pain. i have more than one unrequited love story, and the feelings still linger. i'm now emotionally ready for romance again, wanna find someone else. but i think i'll wait until i figure out what to do about gender issues. i wouldn't wanna start any relationship as something that isn't really me

Quote from: Sage on July 19, 2011, 02:29:37 PM
I think the number 3 is the best number in the world.   ;D  So coming from me, it'd be a compliment!

then i'll take it as a compliment :3

Quote from: Sage on July 19, 2011, 02:29:37 PM
Umm...how to describe it...well, the idea of '3rd gender' made sense to me a few minutes ago, but some upsetting stuff just temporarily scrambled my brain, I'd have to get back to you on that.   ???  I'm going to guess 'in-between'?  Something like that?  Maybe?   :P

your definition works. it's pretty much what i thought when i read your post, but the wiki also include some definitions i don't like so i had to ask

I wish to be seen as myself.  Most of the time that means hoping that people see past my female body and just treat me as a person with no prejudices in their head of how I'm going to act simply because of how I look.  But, I don't know that that's very realistic.

Whenever I was trying to attract a guy, I'd present as more feminine than usual.  I like straight men, I can't help it, it's how I'm wired, and from what I'd seen it always seemed like the girly girls got the guy, so I tried emulating that whenever I'd get a serious crush.

I'd also present rather female whenever I was trying to make a good impression at a job interview.  That's one of the very few cases where I'll wear makeup. The main reason for trying so hard for interviews, however, was not an intent to look female but to look older and I wasn't sure how else to go about it.

I also presented female when I picked up my boyfriend from the airport the first time I actually met him.  He'd seen me in my everyday state several times before over cam, but for some reason I wanted to try hard to look what I thought would be "attractive."  But he's always telling me I look beautiful no matter what I'm wearing... he's probably one of the few I can say looks straight past everything else to who I am.  That's how I'm wishing everyone could see me.

I guess that's what it boils down to for me, though.  I want to seem attractive to those I'm trying to attract and don't know much better than to go for female.

Otherwise, it's t-shirts, jeans, shorts, the random polo shirt, and sometimes unkempt hair, lol.

Quote from: sunny-side on July 19, 2011, 04:39:05 PM
he's probably one of the few I can say looks straight past everything else to who I am.  That's how I'm wishing everyone could see me.

People would be more apt to do just that if androgynes behaved within the social agreements of what good behavior is.
Doing things that are designed to just ->-bleeped-<- with peoples heads acomplishes nothing but a bad impression of all Non-Binary people.

Need to screw up somebodies psyche? how about leaving it to just close friends and family. It's immature in the real world.

And its not just a specific group, but it is something that late teens to early 20's seem to find so funny.

->-bleeped-<-ing up someones Psyche for your own personal pleasure is at the least, cruel. Go slap a kitten around or beat your dog with a stick.
You get the same results.

In order for non-binaries to be accepted, we need to be impressive first.
We have to be just a little bit better.

Ativan, Stratovan, Flotsam, and now just simply... i

I have never intentionally behaved differently in order to mess with other people's heads, and I'm not sure that I like that assumption.  I'm generally just a nondescript person that everyone just refers to as "ma'am" or "miss" without even the slightest pause.  I don't think most would even pause to think that I'm anything other than female and it's only those who get to know me who might accept something else of me.  Apparently it's hard to see much past the c-cups and long hair and that was all I was asking for.

I'm sorry....I took something you wrote and took it out of context for some others. Crap, I never even thought about you taking it that way
A Thousand apologies, I'm so sorry. It was very self center of me.
Ativan, And who I am.

It's alright, Ativan.  I can tell that something is certainly bothering you over the shock value approach that some people seem to be enjoying.  I was just worried that you were lumping me into that and I've been anything but shocking for most of my life.

I think that the people in that age group you listed try to do something shocking regardless of what they identify as or how they go about it because they are finally able to assert themselves as individuals... and they just take it too far.  I see it as a part of growing up, and when they get backlash from it, they'll settle down again for the most part.   There is a lot of value in trying out different things to figure out what feels right for you, but I agree that we've got to try to be a bit more respectful of others as we do so.

Thank You for understanding. And thank you for understanding what the point was I was making. There were a few posts that looked as if they were going to run into that, ''who can I really mess up, contest''. I'm sensitive to it probably because I'm in my fifties now, but I still remember those days of freaking people just for the sake of being a freak. 60's-70's stuff.

Binary Transgenders have an extremely hard road ahead for exceptance, ours might be harder. But honestly, If people could get used to the fact that there are non-binaries out there, and I think it would be easier because we look more like them, then there is a hope that all genders, irregardless of what it consists of to be accepted in this world.

Quote from: Robyn on July 18, 2011, 12:32:45 AM
I just want to be seen and heard as what I am, an older woman.

My husband (FTM) says he was going for studly but has to be satified with 'cute old curmudgeon'.

Robyn

Always love your posts Robyn  :)  You are awesome

I turn 50 this Oct. which may be a drop in the bucket to some but a big deal to me... I like to be seen as myself also, an aging woman who is still a bit hip, feisty and sexy and does it all with a bit of class  :icon_chick:

Just realized my posting could be misread, too - I'm not into f***ing peoples mind either.
Sorry, if that upset anyone.
What I wanted to say was: I think, if you get to that point, which you pointed out, and are confident enough about your own identity (ambiguous in my case) - it won't matter to you that much anymore, as which gender people see you.
I'm just content with whatever they will call me now, as long as it isn't anything straight - and this is simply me being myself.

Well, okay, I have to admit I like to play "guess my gender" with strangers, waiting how they will refer to me.
Most of the time people just seem to avoid gendered words with me, though, I don't know if that's out of embarrassment or care.
And I like to learn how they see me today, as I've totally no clue what complete strangers think about my first impression (look, voice, gestures, etc.) - and can't ask them about that ofc.
Therefore sorry again, if you think, someone could misunderstand it.

Greets, Alex

Edits: appendixed and improved

I'd like to be seen as intriguing, mysterious, creative, sensitive, joyful.  A touch of beauty.  Divine spark.  Cute is good.  Strong and capable are also good.

Oh, which gender?  I'd love for people to see that I'm nonbinary, to wear my heart on my sleeve and have it be recognized.  Too bad there aren't widely recognized obvious markers for it, the way there are for male and female.  I will seriously squee if someone ever looks at me and sees a nonbinary person, instead of a guy who dresses funny and may be a bit femme.

How I don't want to be seen:  "sissy" (I'm not weak).  Crossdresser (not that I am opposed to it in others, but it's not me, and the line is fuzzy enough to be kind of vexing.)  "Trap" (I really don't like that kind of transphobic attitutude; my gender expression is not an attempt to deceive anyone, actually the opposite).  Fashion-challenged (guilty as charged, but I'm trying to learn).

What doesn't bother me:  guy (I look like one, identified as one for 39.5 years, and mostly dress like one).  Gay (I'm not, but it doesn't offend me).  Weird (guilty as charged).

I'd like to be seen in three dimensions.

Quote from: i on July 19, 2011, 08:02:51 PM
There were a few posts that looked as if they were going to run into that, ''who can I really mess up, contest''.

i hope i wasn't taken that way. but if i were, then i just want to clarify that i'd never want to mess with other people's heads. no matter how i look or what i wear i'll still only be myself, i've long since given up on acting a gender role that isn't me. and my freakier sides are some that i generally never show the rest of society, i'll only reveal those to people whom i (think i can) trust

Taka...be genuine. I'm not saying you havn't been, and it's very hard to do online sometimes. There is more of you to know, it should be genuine.
This should be the place were you have the freedom to be who you are. Take advantage. The funny odd things said by some, are funny and meant to be that. But, they are usually up front, at leastyou will figure them out. I advised new people here to go and look at peoples old posta and get an idea of who they are. Just click on there name and then choose posts. It will amaze you at some of the thoughts on subjects that people have. It is worth the time to get to know your neihbors here, and to be genuine so they can get to know you. Just do it.......

i

i'm too lazy to look up everything the people around here write. but i do from time to time if someone seems interesting

i also try my best to be genuine. not too easy, i looked at some of my own former posts at a different forum, and i can't believe the person a was only a few months ago. i know i meant every word i wrote, but i couldn't imagine writing the same thing right now. then again, in a few days i might be back to that point where it is natural to think like i did those months ago

all i can do is hope that people won't misunderstand me on those days when the world looks pitch black to me and i become very cynical about it. those who know me well (does unfortunately not include my mom) understand me and recognize the meaning behind my words, but i've met too many who are put off by the way i express myself on those days and judge me by that one "wrong" word i used

Be tolerant with what you receive and be careful with what you give.

The whole internet was built with that thinking.

If they were genuine at the time, but now look weird, it's because the situation that made you genuine in that way has changed.
You can only hope for the best.
And it seems pretty common that Androgyn's are not understood, they can't see the world as you do.
And there's the fact that a higher percentage of Androgyn's have a higher yet different IQ, as in Freak'n Genius.
Quote:

"Most genius is acceptable because it can be stated in such a way that it can be understood to whatever degree of intelligence it is being used at.

Freak'n genius always run the risk of sounding like just so much bull->-bleeped-<- because Freak'n is a level that is hard for some to work with."

i

careful with what you give..? i thought the internet was invented so secrets could be shared more easily? wasn't it a military invention?

but you're right. i've come into really weird situations because of one single wrong word, not necessarily written by me. like that time (somewhere else) when a guy was offended on my behalf by something another guy wrote in my defense. a ridiculous situation created by a single word, but understandable perhaps, if i say that word was a label..

Quote from: i on July 20, 2011, 04:42:03 PM
If they were genuine at the time, but now look weird, it's because the situation that made you genuine in that way has changed.
You can only hope for the best.

i don't know if it's the situation which has changed, it's more likely to be my gender or maybe entire personality walking in circles or maybe a digit eight shape between states that seem like total opposites even to me when seeing it form a different angle. all of it is undeniably me, but it looks like it's too much to include all at the same time

loved that quote about freak'n genius. people often have trouble following my reasoning, some because they can't accept anything other than what the text books from their school days say, others because i'm just too weird for them to follow

"Be strict in what you send and tolerant in what you receive."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_Principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_Principle)

There, I looked the quote.

And I don't know what mil secrets have to do with anything, but it was made by DARPA and uni friends to send data back and forth.

Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on July 20, 2011, 05:45:32 PM
"Be strict in what you send and tolerant in what you receive."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_Principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_Principle)

There, I looked the quote.

And I don't know what mil secrets have to do with anything, but it was made by DARPA and uni friends to send data back and forth.

when i read "conservative" i finally understood what was meant

and i didin't really say "military secrets", but i thought that if it's a military invention, there should have been a purpose of also sharing sensitive information, what other data would darpa want to send back and forth?

scientific data originally.
And pictures of cats.

*eyes icanhascheezburger* ...then we haven't moved very far, lol.

That quote does seem to hold some water, though, as far as the way that people do seem to react over the internet.

funny how a quote that was originally meant for code sent between computer can also be applied to words sent between humans

Even more hilarious is how derailed a thread can get  :laugh:

I wish to be seen as the cute kid on the left, who has a cute friend on the right, in your avatar picture.

I want to be seen as cute, clever, pretty, and strong.

In a perfect world, I'd be seen as something other than a girl or boy. I'm sure I'm seen right now as a weird somewhat butch girl with a buzzcut, but that's inaccurate. I love being mistaken for a boy, because it means that someone sees something in me that isn't just a girl.

I'll settle for just causing confusion in regards to my gender. It's okay; it confuses me too sometimes.

Quote from: ZaidaZadkiel on July 20, 2011, 06:17:21 PM
scientific data originally.
And pictures of cats.

Originally it was just the Dept of Defence, it was slowly spread out to Uni's and colleges, but highly restricted to DOD projects.
I used to use the internet before the WWW was released. I don't recall any cats, but that doesn't mean that the DOD wasn't trying to make killing machines out of them.

I either want to confuse the heck out of people or be seen as male. Either one works for me.

As someone who had been.

In my bikini with a bottom rap sarong, strolling about a beach town

This week I am at, probably for the last time, the big annual gathering of my temple.  I've been going for 14 years. Many of the folks there know I'm identifying as androgyne now.  One said today that I was pretty, and another settled for groovy, and a couple people just said I was looking good.  I'll take any of those, especially because I really just feel tired and stressed.

I wish that people wouldn't try to stick a label on me, and judge me simply by who I am, rather than what they think I should be. I don't want my gender (or even sexuality) to have to do with anything.

Quote from: Raige on August 02, 2011, 09:34:01 PM
I wish that people wouldn't try to stick a label on me, and judge me simply by who I am.

But how are they going to begin to comprehend, assimilate and understand who you are without tentatively placing you in various categories, groups and subgroups?

They could observe without expectations rather than make assumptions or categorizations.

Quote from: Raige on August 03, 2011, 03:38:15 PM
They could observe without expectations rather than make assumptions or categorizations.

To do that is to become constantly confused, lost and frightened of the world. Do you observe every individual person freshly or do you see the guy in the suit and think "he'll grab a seat on the train and put his briefcase on the other one"? I'm sure you don't imagine every old lady (for example) to be a potential mugger, millionaire philanthropist or what-have-ye.

The fact remains that it's a normal and healthy human function to assume and categorise, to use that information to make predictions - I know that the red man is shining - so I should not cross the road because I'll get run over. You don't have to learn that at every individual crossing you come to.

As it is impossible not to assume and categorise, what is really wanted is that people are ready and free to change and modify our categorisations - and to be honest people will only do that if they get to know you (until they become your friend and then you are just 'Raige' and so a category all of your own) but to expect strangers to put all this mental investment in you when they may never see you again - is unfair and unlikely.

Now, I'd also like it if gender was not one of the first categorisations that people make, or at the very least that there was enough awareness of the bendiness of those categorisations, that it's not so clean cut as either/or but while it is commonly supposed to be as easy as either/or, it'll be one of the first assumptions and generalisations made. Ever played Guess Who? The smart player always asks the gender first - it's easy, and people will always do what is easy.

Good point. I wasn't saying it isn't a common occurrence or understandable to categorize, but I try not to have expectations, myself. I want people to try, is all. Mostly because the expectations or assumptions that people have made is very very off concerning me. I have talked to people who at first had assumed things that couldn't be farther from the truth because they have thought I was like other people they had met.

 Mostly because the expectations or assumptions that people have made is very very off concerning me. I have talked to people who at first had assumed things that couldn't be farther from the truth because they have thought I was like other people they had met.

This, this is the kind of thing that drives me bats... "Well so and so blah blah blah" ... I'm not so and so  :P

Quote from: V M on August 03, 2011, 05:36:15 PM
Mostly because the expectations or assumptions that people have made is very very off concerning me. I have talked to people who at first had assumed things that couldn't be farther from the truth because they have thought I was like other people they had met.

This, this is the kind of thing that drives me bats... "Well so and so blah blah blah" ... I'm not so and so  :P

Oh, yeah, I hate that too ><;

My ex was especially terrible at that.  He'd sometimes compare me to his ex-girlfriends ("so and so liked this/that/the other") or just women in general.  I always wondered where he was getting the ideas in his head about women in general, but he kept doing things because "women like this sort of thing."  ..I hate that.

Hi,

How do i wish to be seen ,

Ill change that word to accept or accepted ,

Im accepted first as a person . & then as a woman of difference, & that says no matter how im seen or dressed   make's  little difference because i'm known & knowable. or i allow others in to my life,

So to be seen is  to be accepted , not for what you are not  , for who you are.

...noeleena...

On a genderspectrum:  An androgynous/feminine person , sadly I'm mostly seen as a androgynous/gay male (My birthsex). I'm not settling for that, even though I am good at pulling it off...it's a dread and an incomplete picture

As a human being: Colourful


Also (for the derailers) ...Mudkipz..

Sometimes I just wish to be seen. Like when important ->-bleeped-<- is being discussed and everyone has an opinion about whats best or they think they are the expert because thats what they do for a living so I should just follow their advice and I'm going but..but..but and it's like I become invisible, opinion invalid, Non-creditialed people out of the room.  But it's my liiiiiiiiifffffee.   :P

At the end of the day, I would wish to be seen as just me. Not Vi (the name my boyfriend gave me, works well) the guy, not Vi the girl. Just Vi.

Concerning appearance, though, I do have some interest in looking a little more feminine. Right now, I look like my genetic sex, quite male. Honestly, I don't mind it too much, but I think some changes to the wardrobe will eventually be in order. Also, I am in the process of letting my hair grow out, and seeing how that works for me.

At the end of the day, I would wish to be seen as just me. Not Vi (the name my boyfriend gave me, works well) the guy, not Vi the girl. Just Vi.

Can you describe what I would see if I saw just Vi.

Quote from: espo on August 08, 2011, 10:32:35 AM
Sometimes I just wish to be seen. Like when important ->-bleeped-<- is being discussed and everyone has an opinion about whats best or they think they are the expert because thats what they do for a living so I should just follow their advice and I'm going but..but..but and it's like I become invisible, opinion invalid, Non-creditialed people out of the room.  But it's my liiiiiiiiifffffee.   :P

Is it always 25 to 8? or 7:35? I usually just walk out of the room laughing, cause I just know something is wrong with 99.9875% of all discussions. If anyone asks, I just say you'll find out. then when it doesn't go as thought, I just remind them they forgot to ask me. And walk away again. If everything does work out, they won't even realize they didn't ask you, anyways. They will be to busy thinking how smart they are. But, you always have to bring something of value to the discussion to be a participant.

Quote from: espo on August 09, 2011, 07:18:11 PM
At the end of the day, I would wish to be seen as just me. Not Vi (the name my boyfriend gave me, works well) the guy, not Vi the girl. Just Vi.

Can you describe what I would see if I saw just Vi.

An empty white room with me standing in the middle of it.

2035hrs  Sir!

only once a day? I'd rather have the twice a day version. Remember, military intelligence is an oxymoron. (Not that I'm not....)

Oops, that should be 1935hrs  lol  I agree with the twice a day version

Nice catch!...   the sun was in my eyes....

Ativan

7:39 your time