Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Several years ago my first therapist told me in my first visit after 5 minutes that I will never be a 24 year old cheer leader but if I worked at it I could pass.  That was too funny but had grains of truth.

It bothers me but I actually would like to be pretty  Do other people feel that way.

Is it part of removing male markers or part of self centered condition?

Is it part of being accepted by society?

Is it a desire to have someone attracted to you?

I obsess on pretty thing.  Whatever!  What are your thoughts?

I think almost every girl wants to be "pretty" - or at least what our society deems to be "pretty". You're really no different than any girl, myself included, who wants to be pretty. We work with what we have and make the best of it. Some feel the need to undergo more drastic measures, such as Facial Feminization Surgery (https://www.susans.org/wiki/Facial_feminization_surgery) to achieve this.

You shouldn't feel bad for wanting to be pretty. You're not wrong for wanting it.

I enjoy looking good and wearing nice clothes, but I do those things for myself. It's all about myself and my level of comfort with my body, what other people think isn't much of a consideration beyond my desire to be passable.

As the username indicates, yes. I wanted to be pretty even before I thought about transition.

you read my mind Wendy

Don't all girls want to be pretty?  Eventually I settled for passable, but I would have a hard time believing anyone who said she never wanted to be pretty.

Quote from: Kristi on August 11, 2011, 09:21:50 PM
Don't all girls want to be pretty?  Eventually I settled for passable, but I would have a hard time believing anyone who said she never wanted to be pretty.

I think you're pretty!!!!

I want to be pretty all the time.  Every aspect of me, in every situation.  Yes, that's irrational, but it is what it is.

   Men really don't know what women go through to look pretty.  ::)

Quote from: Forever21Chic on August 11, 2011, 11:34:49 PM

   Men really don't know what women go through to look pretty.  ::)

My crossdressing cousin does XD

Quote from: xxJuliaxx on August 11, 2011, 11:40:37 PM
My crossdressing cousin does XD

   LOL   :laugh:

Sure I'd love to live a pretty, attractive body but by this point I've pretty much accepted that such is impossible, at least in this life. I don't really care too much though. We can't all be models. I'd just like to live in peace.

Quote from: Kristi on August 11, 2011, 09:21:50 PM
Don't all girls want to be pretty?  Eventually I settled for passable, but I would have a hard time believing anyone who said she never wanted to be pretty.

+1

Almost all GGs want to be pretty, some to the point of obsession. I strongly suspect most TGs want that as well; it's really a badge of passing above and beyond female vanity.

When I first consulted doctors in the 70s about this, the internal specialist said, "They found no physical cause, so just accept being a male. Besides, you wouldn't make a very good looking woman." Not only was that mean, it has hurt me more then any other sling or arrow sent my way before or since! It set me back 35 years. And he was wrong - there was a physical cause. I had these god-awful things growing on me warping my body, and I was lacking the right things in me to mold my body correctly. I knew more then that dumb @#$-%^-a-&*()_!

Wanting to be pretty. Well Doctor, you were wrong! I may not be model quality, but I see good looking in the mirror, and that is good enough.

Susan Kay

I know I want to be pretty. I don't care about model-gorgeous, because I know it'll never happen, but I do want to be pretty. I think most women want to be pretty on some level or another. (In my case, I'm shooting for more of a "typical mountain girl in T-shirt and jeans" kind of pretty, but that's probably just a reflection of where I live.  ;D )

Susan - In my opinion, those doctors *were* wrong; even at first glance, I look at your avatar pic and I see a woman.  :)

I actually have a bad day if not looking pretty (of sorts), a flat hair day, eish!

And I have a REALLY good day, when I look as good as can be.
Then I'm VERY pleased and give myself a blow-kiss in the mirror.
It only happens at night. Morning light is just too unkind.

Also "bei Nacht sind alle Katzen grau" -at night all cats look grey- comes to mind.
Night being a sort of kindly equaliser...

Axelle

I want to be pretty :) I'm not sure why... I "think" it has something to do with the entire artist thing? I like creating beautiful things, I wish I were just beautiful too? Oooo maybe I live vicariously through art? :D

It would be nice, but at 57 I'll settle for moderately attractive, stylish and elegant.

Karen.

I know that I'm not going to look like a model at my age but I do my best to look decent  :icon_chick:  I do like to feel pretty though

The way I see it is I want to be able to think "If I was a straight guy I'd totally date myself" which isn't very likely though since I'd have to be shorter and have a cute face but I'll try as hard as I can.

At one time I was obsessed with being pretty. That time would be now! I just know someone is going to come by and call us and this thread shallow!

Quote from: Kristi on August 11, 2011, 09:21:50 PM
Don't all girls want to be pretty?  Eventually I settled for passable, but I would have a hard time believing anyone who said she never wanted to be pretty.

I never cared about trying to get to head-turning or even anything other than average.  I don't want the added attention and headaches that come with the better levels of looks...

And, Kristi...you SHOULD be able to believe me on that given that you know how little effort I put into appearances even for the first time meeting someone...  :police:

Quote from: Tracey on August 12, 2011, 05:57:25 AM
I just know someone is going to come by and call us and this thread shallow!

Too funny!  I always wanted to be pretty even when I was young.  Guess that was why my head had to be shaved and young boys would toss my gloves and hat over tall iron fences of big inner city.  It was bookworm nerdy look.

Quote from: V M on August 12, 2011, 03:40:53 AM
I know that I'm not going to look like a model at my age but I do my best to look decent  :icon_chick:  I do like to feel pretty though

I really have this thing for colors these last few years.  I love bright and bold and flowing and beautiful colors!  Wow I like concept of feeling pretty!  I know I am not pretty but I have purchased nice jewelry and nice expressive clothing. 
........................................................................................

I will take it that a reasonable number of people on this portion of site would like to be pretty to some degree.

I am still married and not out.  (Wonder if "marriage" and "not out" are correlated?  Rhetorical question.) 

Wife informed me that, "Ugly girls do not need to be pretty to be women.   Therefore my feelings are not warranted since I want to be pretty."

My youngest daughter informed me that "Dad you no not want to be a girl!  You just want to be pretty!"

Both wife and daughter are "very" pretty.  I want problem of just being pretty.  Yesterday I dressed in a blue female polo and white female shorts with sterling jewelry , female pansy glasses and light blue female sneakers.  I have a receding hairline and no hair rest of body.  I have pink nails and pink lip gloss.  I wear a sports bra or it hurts  to move too fast.

I met rude people, polite people, and funny people all in one day.  One nurse at doctor's office gave me a T-shirt and told me to submit a picture for a $100 prize.  I told her I bet I would win!

One pen-pal on this site has told me world sees me as humorous gay cross-dresser.    I do not see myself as a humorous gay cross-dresser but that strikes me as funny.

Shame shame on me! Self-centered, shallow and want to be pretty!

Hehe,
such a funny and self-revelatory post surely needs some applause!
Surely some others can not help but feel a bit giggly now also? :-)
Well done!

Axelle
PS: I LOVE pink, no question, nails or otherwise --- and add my nightie!... oh, and aren't we ever so deliciously shallow. Just love it :-)

Quote from: Axélle on August 12, 2011, 10:54:46 AM
Hehe,
such a funny and self-revelatory post surely needs some applause!
Surely some others can not help but feel a bit giggly now also? :-)
Well done!

Axelle
PS: I LOVE pink, no question, nails or otherwise --- and add my nightie!... oh, and aren't we ever so deliciously shallow. Just love it :-)

Yes yes, Im a girl and I want to be pretty, its part of my user name, goes back a long time when my transition was complete, my Dad use to call me ''pretty pink pauline'' Iv spent an absolute forture over the years on clothes, fashion, shoes, hair, nails, skin care and makeup etc all because I want to be pretty, its not an obsession, its a girl thing!
Pauline

Quote from: pretty pauline on August 12, 2011, 06:23:31 PM
Yes yes, Im a girl and I want to be pretty, its part of my user name, goes back a long time when my transition was complete, my Dad use to call me ''pretty pink pauline'' Iv spent an absolute forture over the years on clothes, fashion, shoes, hair, nails, skin care and makeup etc all because I want to be pretty, its not an obsession, its a girl thing!
Pauline

Here's what a "sir" spent on himself:
$6,000 for fixing a cross bite and having Hollywood teeth.
$6000 for removing facial and body hair to become naked mole rat.
$3000 to leave parts bank for future work and beautification.
$3000 for hormones to grow big uns as children call them.
$3000 for doctors to tell me you're different but we love you.
$3000 for androgynous and feminine wardrobe.

That's $24,000 for a sir.  Wonder what it would cost if I was TS?

Said I would never buy a dress! Well I purchased a $50 boring gray stretch dress if I am wrong.

A local surgeon told me could fix nose and brow ridge for $30,000.
I told him computer imaging looks like a pretty male.
He said but earrings would help.

Ah $54,000 and a pair of earrings and I will have a nice nose and good teeth!

Wait a minute!  I still would not be pretty! 

Sorry to disappoint all of you....

I will paint my nails pink and dream.......


Yes confusion leaves when I sleep.
Yes time frozen and I do not weep.

Ah my friend Jack sat across table from me.
Mr. Daniels was smooth, well aged and happy.

I swallow him greedily as I drain him dry.
I still like girls but what's another lie.

But I now look pretty as cloud does grow.
In sleep no one needs to know.

Yes I have dreamed about being pretty but know that passable is all I can hope for.  :(
I love girly pretty things and pink is my favorite color to wear. :)

Quote from: Jillieann on August 13, 2011, 12:09:26 AM
Yes I have dreamed about being pretty but know that passable is all I can hope for.  :(
I love girly pretty things and pink is my favorite color to wear. :)

I think you're pretty!!!!

Thank you for the complement xxJuliaxx.

Here it is not difficult to see women at their 80s wearing lipstick and earrings, together with decorative flowers.

Barbie~~

I want to make myself as pretty and feminine as reasonably possible. Lots of make-up and jewelry and frilly clothes and high heels.
I guess you could say I am obsessed with being pretty. :)

Jennifer

The holy grail of trans condition is passability at almost any cost, such is a desire to be seen as genuine and accepted. Being pretty is more of self awareness to make others focus and appreciate you more than someone average and to tell you the truth who really ever want to be average? I find that vanity had surfaced in my psyche right at the onset of allowing my self to start transition, before it was reserved to my own and lasted only a short while while being in fem. Now it engulfed my entire being 24/7. I believe that female psyche is constructed in such way that vanity is an integral part of presentation in order to attract the best mate. Man do the same however their impressive front is built out of sweat, muscle, and testosterone infested brute force.

Quote from: Jennifer on August 13, 2011, 08:28:44 AM
I want to make myself as pretty and feminine as reasonably possible. Lots of make-up and jewelry and frilly clothes and high heels.
I guess you could say I am obsessed with being pretty. :)

Jennifer

*Looks at avatar* I would have never guessed

But of course! Even when I'm in boy mode I try to be, and people always wonder why... Then I ask them why not? I suppose that's a bit strange coming from someone "presenting" as a boy. ;)

Sorry for a quote!

"We desire to possess a beauty that is worth pursuing, worth fighting for, a beauty that is core to who we truly are. We want beauty that can be seen; beauty that can be felt; beauty that affects others; a beauty all our own to unveil." - Stasi Eldredge

It's imprinted into who we are. :)

Just a couple of random thoughts for contemplation:  What is pretty? What is the opposite of pretty?

Susan Kay

I agree with everyone here, that the desire to look pretty is innate not just in ts women but also ggs.

It is ok to feel this way... but you have to learn how to distinguish what is obsessive and what is normal.
Being a transgirl, our passability is our 'seal of approval and acceptance' by society, and i think that is why many ts women go over board with the surgery. The desire to be accepted drives them to get all these surgeries done to the point that they do it soo much that they become 'synthethic' looking. Now people can do whatever they desire with their bodies.

My point is that ts women like genetic women, have their own imperfections (uniqueness in other words) and we need to learn how to accept them or deal with them. I personally have my own battles with this. I would love to get my brow bone shaved off, my hairline advanced, my hips wider and all. I am learning to accept that perfection is in the eyes of the beholder. I do know i want to get rid of my adams apple, as i find it important in my passibilty. The rest are just obsessions to look pretty.

Also we need to learn to distinguish the difference between passing and looking pretty.

Quote from: Trista T on August 13, 2011, 08:08:42 PM
I agree with everyone here, that the desire to look pretty is innate not just in ts women but also ggs.
Also we need to learn to distinguish the difference between passing and looking pretty.

Dear Trisha,
Many use an Avatar to represent themselves.  Your Avatar is very beautiful.

I attended a pre-conference meeting of TG people.  I heard a couple of older men say "He just looks gay."  They were in lobby and did not know me but knew I was one of "T" people.

I am not paranoid just me.  My TS friend told me I looked flaming gay or Gender Bender.  She asked me if  "was there".  I am confused.  My wife gives me pain reward scenario.  I dressed as a girl and used male restroom.  Older guys in restroom said  I guess "He" was outed."  I asked TS folks and they said girls would not have problem with you.  Oh I a  confused.

Trisha how can you find fault in yourself?  Is Avatar just image of yourself?

Today I dresses in front of wife.   I saw a person in mirror  that looked pretty but not girl.  I looked, in between, without surgery but not ugly.  Just different.  If I were accepted I still would want to make make mind and body coincide!

T o t a l l y  c o n f us e d.

Been there done that and found out i was becoming superficial and was losing my spirituality which meant more to me. So here i am much happier about myself.

Maybe i should write about how we started out spiritual and knew even though we didn't look like the other gender we were so we had a very strong spirituality of our self. However, then after we finish the outer we then can get hung up on it and lose our strong spirituality.

UNDER OUR GENDER / IDENTIIES
....................Queer.............Q
......................U...................U..........U
...............transsExual.............E
.........................Straight...........S
..........................T.....................T..........T
..........................bIsexual.............I
............................O.....................O.........0
.....................lesbiaN.....................N
...............................INGay...............ING

OUR SPIRITS LAY
WITH OUT PREJUDICE

LISTEN TO THE SPIRITS.....HUMAN LIFE IS A DREAM OF THE REAL SPIRITUL WORLD


UPDATE : I STARTED THAT THREAD HERE ==> https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,103616.new.html#new (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,103616.new.html#new)

Occasionally some random person calls me female and an even rarer person does not correct themselves.  I do not see me as male.  However I do not know what it is to be female since I am viewed as male.

I do not plan on killing myself but Jack Daniels is my boyfriend and I am not able to interact with society.

With great effort I can pass but I will never be very pretty.  Maybe someone will find me attractive?  Certainly my soul mate finds me unattractive as she like males and I am a "whatever".

She is ashamed of me and if I do not remove a "female" marker" I can stay home.  She said remove pink finger nail polish or stay home from volunteer assignment.  And today she said take off scarf and wear a tie or stay home from Church.

I am angry.  A day of volunteering is worth less than pink nails.  Going to church is worth less than wearing a scarf.

A free day of volunteer work is unacceptable if you have pink nails or a day at church is worth less than a scarf?

What am I missing?

Why am I so hideous? 

Society is wrong and I told my wife I should divorce you!  She told me that is fine.

Quote from: wendy on August 14, 2011, 05:24:45 PM
Dear Trisha,
Many use an Avatar to represent themselves.  Your Avatar is very beautiful.

I attended a pre-conference meeting of TG people.  I heard a couple of older men say "He just looks gay."  They were in lobby and did not know me but knew I was one of "T" people.

I am not paranoid just me.  My TS friend told me I looked flaming gay or Gender Bender.  She asked me if  "was there".  I am confused.  My wife gives me pain reward scenario.  I dressed as a girl and used male restroom.  Older guys in restroom said  I guess "He" was outed."  I asked TS folks and they said girls would not have problem with you.  Oh I a  confused.

Trisha how can you find fault in yourself?  Is Avatar just image of yourself?

Today I dresses in front of wife.   I saw a person in mirror  that looked pretty but not girl.  I looked, in between, without surgery but not ugly.  Just different.  If I were accepted I still would want to make make mind and body coincide!

T o t a l l y  c o n f us e d.

Yes that's Trista, she is utterly gorgeous.  :)

Quote from: wendy on August 14, 2011, 06:33:12 PM
Occasionally some random person calls me female and an even rarer person does not correct themselves.  I do not see me as male.  However I do not know what it is to be female since I am viewed as male.

I do not plan on killing myself but Jack Daniels is my boyfriend and I am not able to interact with society.

With great effort I can pass but I will never be very pretty.  Maybe someone will find me attractive?  Certainly my soul mate finds me unattractive as she like males and I am a "whatever".

She is ashamed of me and if I do not remove a "female" marker" I can stay home.  She said remove pink finger nail polish or stay home from volunteer assignment.  And today she said take off scarf and wear a tie or stay home from Church.

I am angry.  A day of volunteering is worth less than pink nails.  Going to church is worth less than wearing a scarf.

A free day of volunteer work is unacceptable if you have pink nails or a day at church is worth less than a scarf?

What am I missing?

Why am I so hideous? 

Society is wrong and I told my wife I should divorce you!  She told me that is fine.

Wendy, that sounds awful to have to go through that. I hope I don't step my boundaries when I say that if the person you're married to is unable to accept who you are, then perhaps it's not meant to be. It would be understandable if it's an issue that just takes time, and patience to resolve. However, there is no resolve for being transgendered. I'd have a conversation with her about this if I were you, and again I'm sorry that's how your relationship is. It sounds to me like she either doesn't know, or is in denial.

Wendy,

I guess the only advice I have, and after all, none of us is Dear Abby: Get a divorce - from Jack Daniels!

I believe something else; you will never be pretty until you can look in a mirror and not see hidious. I strongly suspect hidious comes from Jack, as well as other aspects of your life. Pretty must first of all, be self-evident. If you can't see what "pretty" you have, no one else will see it, or look for it. The first rule of passing: Pass to yourself.

Susan Kay

Quote from: Susan Kay on August 15, 2011, 02:49:12 PM
Wendy,

I guess the only advice I have, and after all, none of us is Dear Abby: Get a divorce - from Jack Daniels!

I believe something else; you will never be pretty until you can look in a mirror and not see hidious. I strongly suspect hidious comes from Jack, as well as other aspects of your life. Pretty must first of all, be self-evident. If you can't see what "pretty" you have, no one else will see it, or look for it. The first rule of passing: Pass to yourself.

Susan Kay

Susan it is actually difficult to divorce Jack.

You are also correct in that I am ugly on inside and out.  Trans people also suffer anxiety and depression like rest of world.  My mind has shut down.  My self worth has evaporated.  My wife has become man of house and I am an embarrassment.   I do feel ugly on inside.

Wife did take me shopping yesterday and we got some very pretty female things.  She told me she shops with daughters and does not see them wear it.  She said you can wear these things just never with me and never around my friends at home or work.  Wear these clothes to support groups.

If I could get a good paying job my wife would stay with me but she is not a lesbian.  She will always be my friend whether we divorce or not.  She will never want me to be amorous with her again because she likes men not women.

I now have two issues as Susan stated.  I must figure out how to get on with my life or make myself pretty on inside.  And I must figure out how to address "stuff" because a "whatever" is not doing it for me.

People that are pretty inside radiate beauty.  I saw one MTF have this beautiful smile and I thought she was pretty.  I really enjoyed her company.  Yet on close examination she was rather male looking and other than her hair was not pretty but I found her personality attractive.

........................
Now thread has two beauties both inner beauty and outer beauty.  Actually inner beauty may be more important than outer beauty. 

Wendy,

Hopefully I can be frank with you. Yes, absolutely, it is sometimes extremely hard to divorce Jack or any of his relatives. Mine was Old Weller's 107. I still occasionally miss him after over 25 years, but not enough to seek him out. He eats up little girls.

Whoa! I did not say you were ugly, inside or out. I was referring to your view of you. I do not sense that you are, and it's unfair to think I do.

My wife and I are in very much the same status as you and yours. She has remained with me through transition and SRS, but she in no way is a lesbian. Not only is she not amorous -she does not even want to see my femaleness; seperate bedrooms, etc. But we are still friends. There is still no guarantee we will remain together. The real test was full transition. I most wanted her happiness except I had to transition and wanted that more. That hurt us both exremely much.

Quote Wendy: "I must figure out how to get on with my life or make myself pretty on inside."
No, you must figure out how to get on with your life AND become pretty on the inside. You can't make yourself feel pretty.

Susan Kay

Hi girls,
as I stated somewhere else, AFTER my divorce (and ONLY then!) I could become one of my ex-wife's best friends, now girl-friends.

We can laugh, she shows caring when I'm sick, we phone, she'd put curlers in my hair, spending hours to take knots out of them (after my brain op), invites me to her new home, and makes every effort to accept me for who I am. None is solicited, she's a strong girl and ONLY does what she feels like, always did, um.

Living together, in separate "rooms" would just not have made THAT possible. It needed that SPACE, lots of it, for her to become OK with me and for who I am.

Clinging onto her in a wrong situation (which I could stop) only would have denigrated me more and make her feel repulsed more and more. Want to become more and more pathetic, for her and yourself?... then go carry on.

->-bleeped-<- Jack and his cousins, get a life and show some of the female strength and spirit that we also are born with! Not just that pink girlie mind-set alone.

Axelle

i found that the older i get, my definition of what makes some beautiful changes. we're definately our own worst critics. i used to compare myself to so many others, and say "i just look so abnormal." that went beyond my gender issues. with my crooked ears, and babyish looking face, i was not common by any means. now, i learned to say. "you know what? rare and unique is beautiful." i used to feel bad that i was not the cookie cutter, but now i know i definately don't want to be that. i've learned to like how tall i am, i've learned to like that i'm not skinny, and i've learned to like that i have asperger's. it came to the point where now i know i don't want to be anything other than what i already am. people really are attracted to uniqueness whether they admit it or not.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on August 16, 2011, 01:17:22 AM
i found that the older i get, my definition of what makes some beautiful changes. we're definately our own worst critics. i used to compare myself to so many others, and say "i just look so abnormal." that went beyond my gender issues. with my crooked ears, and babyish looking face, i was not common by any means. now, i learned to say. "you know what? rare and unique is beautiful." i used to feel bad that i was not the cookie cutter, but now i know i definately don't want to be that. i've learned to like how tall i am, i've learned to like that i'm not skinny, and i've learned to like that i have asperger's. it came to the point where now i know i don't want to be anything other than what i already am. people really are attracted to uniqueness whether they admit it or not.

I use my posts to disprove my transgender behavior.  I suffer from highly functional aspergerlike behavior.  I have a strong correlation to aspbergers yet I can cry and make you laugh.  I use my odd behavior to make everyone laugh and I can solve complex business problems that entire teams can not solve.  I make friends very easily and I keep none for a lifetime.

I visited my therapist today.  She asked me if I were TS.  I told her no.  She asked what I was.  I said I might be TG.  She peppered me with questions and finally I told her TG is how you feel and TS is living as a woman.  She said you are playing semantics.   Is it fair you are a TG MTF.  I said yes.

My wife has put up with explosions of anger.  Move a pencil and you can stop me.  She has helped me earn a good living because I can look at things in a different fashion and solve them.  At 18 I taught Calculus to my senior class in high school because teacher was not trained.   At 150 years old I taught freshman high school students integrated math but was "asked to resign" because I have big breasts and dress with some female articles of clothing.  Oops... That is not what they said.  My goodness everyone else thought I was a good teacher.  I wanted to teach and then do one phase each summer towards my transition goal.  Phase 1 would be privates since no one sees them.  Next year I would do face.

I would prefer to be a female with a male face than a male with a female face!  Why?   In short run it helps me cope with life!  If that does not work then I will move forward.  I do not think I can do all surgeries I want at one time.

I now have this boyish look for an old person.  Soft skin and male features with no beard.

If I go get a job as a male then I may be stuck as male for rest of my years.  This is unacceptable.

If I transition then I may never work again.  This is unacceptable.

My therapist suggested I divorce my wife and live at my home so that I can move forward.

Full Moon I want to be pretty as if it will solve rest of my issues.  Do you know transgendered people suffer same conditions that rest of world suffers?  They are just transgendered.

Susan had very large impact on me.  I must solve my internal ugliness first in order to be beautiful on outside.

Today while shopping I overheard pair of men that walked back and forth past me say, " Yes he is transgendered."  I am not paranoid.  People notice and then get back to their business.  I was called "Sir" as I left store.  Lady was very nice but  can't they just say "Have a nice day."  I was dressed androgynous with pink nails and diamond rings, silver bracelet, and silver cross.  I know I look like a male but I do not present male.  Just leave out "Sir".   Just don't dismiss me because I have pink nails and big breasts.  I am a good person.

If everyone accepted me I would still want to be pretty.  However I feel it helps if you are pretty if you have confidence issues.

Of course, i think its part of human behavior to want to be pretty and attractive. I was especially worried about my appearance as a young teenager because in elementary and middle school i was always teased because of any single flaw people could point out mainly my weight, then my clothes. Once i hit puberty and i went to high school i stopped worrying about it and just went out as myself and even when i was a bit chubby i started getting attention from boys and i tell you the first time a boy said i was pretty it was a surreal feeling  :laugh: and even when i was a "goth" girl in school- boys who i never even thought would talk to me much less compliment me- would flirt with me and wanna hang out. Later on in high school i became more feminine and carried myself with a lot of confidence and you can bet people especially guys were attracted to me. I then realized all this time i was my own biggest critic and every flaw that i thought i had or that bothered me was something other people didnt even notice. Once i stopped trying to fit into "beauty standards" i actually started feeling better about myself and started to like everything that made me unique- and i think it's great when a guy likes you for your unique qualities and features other than just your image. I believe once people accept themselves 4 who they are- any obsession with "being pretty" just fades away

*shrugs* I never was.

Im just obsessed with being ME!!!!!

But I guess I am pretty by gothic standards...

Quote from: Forever21Chic on August 11, 2011, 11:34:49 PM

   Men really don't know what women go through to look pretty.  ::)

Umm Yes WE do...Ok well I do...My Gurrl takes 1 1/2 hours just to ghet her eye make-up correctly applied...which I might add...They look sexy-as-hell, when she is done with the two of them....

I enjoy looking good for my Lady...as a f2M...I  have always wished for an  Adonis/Apollo body...my "pecs" now,  are beautiful and, I HAVE abs...

So, yes I do understand what you Ladies go through, because I go through the same just to keep fit...and might I add, the "lot" of you WO-men are very beautiful and attractive...whether YOU think so or not....but hey, again, that's just me ;D

Wendy,
thanks again for sharing some more of your tale.
You mention Aspersers Disease (an Autism spectrum disorder), um.
I lived 19 years with someone that has that --- are you quite sure? The way you post would not suggest that in the least.
In my long experience it has facets of manic-depressive/bi-polar and OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). I guess you would know how that will fit.

What I do want to mention, that your "obsession" with being "pretty" seems like a sort of coping mechanism I am WELL VERSED with. It can become counterproductive, work against you, because one uses one's "exterior" (NOTICEABLY TO MOST ALL AND SUNDRY) to try and overcome the internal insecurities i.e. I AM A GIRL, BUT DO NOT LOOK LIKE ONE.

This can be a lie, like sort of lying to your self.

Axelle

Quote from: madirocks on August 15, 2011, 01:36:08 PM
Wendy, that sounds awful to have to go through that. I hope I don't step my boundaries when I say that if the person you're married to is unable to accept who you are, then perhaps it's not meant to be. It would be understandable if it's an issue that just takes time, and patience to resolve. However, there is no resolve for being transgendered. I'd have a conversation with her about this if I were you, and again I'm sorry that's how your relationship is. It sounds to me like she either doesn't know, or is in denial.

It doesn't sound awful. That's how life works. Different people will always stand out, and they will always draw attention. How would you feel if person you are partners with, would draw so much attention and you would be mocked at? it's not nice, and everyone deserves to be treated properly... If you feel you are a woman - go through transition, but being "whatever" man using nail polish it's just funny and ridicilous. I dont wanna judge, but you surely need to figure out what you need and what you aim at, unless you wanna live as a freakshow full time.

Marelivki,
--- harsh comment yet it rings true.

Sometimes tough-love is the best in such a situation, - to change one's perception.

The point? If you make a clown, funny-man, of yourself on your own it's one thing, drawing a partner into it is actually unfair. Tragic comic.

Not everyone can expect to be so lucky to find complete acceptance along a smooth path of transition.
To make an omelet - you have to break some eggs. Unfortunately.

Axelle
PS: It IS all very sad but imagine what the other party is going through. Tragic.
PPS: Transition ultimately is one VERY selfish act. No one ever asked you to! Such a quandary!

Quote from: marelivki on August 17, 2011, 04:57:14 AM
It doesn't sound awful. That's how life works. Different people will always stand out, and they will always draw attention. How would you feel if person you are partners with, would draw so much attention and you would be mocked at? it's not nice, and everyone deserves to be treated properly... If you feel you are a woman - go through transition, but being "whatever" man using nail polish it's just funny and ridicilous. I dont wanna judge, but you surely need to figure out what you need and what you aim at, unless you wanna live as a freakshow full time.

I think you missed my point ENTIRELY! But it's okay. :) I can understand what you're saying though.

Transition is indeed selfish, but to a certain extent. It's also selfish to be unwilling to accept your significant other being different, and allowing them to continue down a path of what seems to me like self destruction. Is this justifiable for reputation sake? Granted, I said this before more of Wendy's story unfolded, but the idea is still there.

Quote from: Axélle on August 17, 2011, 10:15:21 AM
Not everyone can expect to be so lucky to find complete acceptance along a smooth path of transition.
To make an omelet - you have to break some eggs. Unfortunately.

Irony. You're absolutely right that not everyone can be so lucky. Then, break some eggs along your transition. If they don't accept you then guess what, they shouldn't be your friend. Does that mean that one shouldn't care what people think? Well, to a degree. But only to the extent of "okay, you hate me now for being who I am, I'm moving on."

A marriage is meant to be a bond between two people, with the support of either. Sometimes there are differences, which are understandable, and albeit changes that can be difficult changes are still necessary.

Are we talking about leaving the toilet seat up or dishes in the sink? Nope, those can be talked about and remedied. We're talking about a birth defect that cannot be fixed. Talking about it, and coming up with solutions was my point. And, if there's no agreement on either side well... it's time to move on!

Speaking with a therapist is a great start though.

I think that part of the reason why you feel so "ugly" inside is like what Axelle said, insecurity. It also has to do with hiding your true self. "A woman who is hiding invites others to do the same. 'Don't be vulnerable. Hide yourself.' A woman who makes herself vulnerable and available for intimacy invites others to do the same." You see, a woman's inner beauty comes from being vulnerable to others, secure in themselves, hopeful and not demanding, and offers her kindness and hopefulness to others. She is offering her heart.

I can't know exactly what your wife is going through, Wendy, or her side of the story. But, I will say that destroying yourself because of your significant other is not good at all. Has your wife come to any of your sessions? Maybe it would be good for her to go so she can better understand the situation.

Sorry for the TL;DR!!  :-\

Quote from: marelivki on August 17, 2011, 04:57:14 AM
but being "whatever" man using nail polish it's just funny and ridicilous. I dont wanna judge, but you surely need to figure out what you need and what you aim at, unless you wanna live as a freakshow full time.

A woman can wear a man's clothes but not a man can not wear women's clothes.   I have logic issue in my head.  Years ago women were not accepted by society if they were not "Betty Crocker" image.

You are correct that wife does not need to get ridiculed because of me.  That is why I try to follow her wishes.

I happen to know a number of genetic women that walk like men, dress like men, talk like women, look like women, like other women and are accepted.  Years ago they were not accepted.

Actually I think men should be allowed to explore femininity and not be freaks. 

If a MTF transitioned and did not wear a wig and did not train their voice it would be different.  I know people like that and community talks about them.  They think they are odd but they accept them.  I am odd.

Nature loves diversity and society hates diversity.

..............................

Quote from: Axélle on August 17, 2011, 04:50:57 AM
You mention Aspersers Disease (an Autism spectrum disorder), um.
I lived 19 years with someone that has that --- are you quite sure? The way you post would not suggest that in the least.
In my long experience it has facets of manic-depressive/bi-polar and OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). I guess you would know how that will fit.

......................

Axelle my wife had me tested and treated for manic depressive and bipolar.  I am not those.  I do suffer from OCD.

She also had me tested for a multiple and I am not a multiple.

I do not have Aspergers Syndrom but my wife found what is called highly functional Aspergers.  It is a person that has some valuable skills but suffers many characteristics of Aspergers.  That is first time she has found something that has reasonable correlation.  Engineers and scientists and mathematicians can have highly functional Aspergers.
.......................

Actually I have one therapist that suggested years ago to try different things to help cope.  She said it also allows a person to see if they want to transition.  She suggested try earrings.  Try dressing up and going out. 

Society allows a little more than I thought but not a lot more.

With great effort I would pass.  FFS would help.  I look like a feminized old male in my presentation.

I never expected my wife to stay.  I had a good life with her and would not trade it.  It is difficult to lose everything.

My bad.

As Susan stated we must first repair ourselves from inside.

Quote from: wendy on August 17, 2011, 03:36:06 PM
A woman can wear a man's clothes but not a man can not wear women's clothes.   I have logic issue in my head.  Years ago women were not accepted by society if they were not "Betty Crocker" image.

You are correct that wife does not need to get ridiculed because of me.  That is why I try to follow her wishes.

I happen to know a number of genetic women that walk like men, dress like men, talk like women, look like women, like other women and are accepted.  Years ago they were not accepted.

Actually I think men should be allowed to explore femininity and not be freaks. 

If a MTF transitioned and did not wear a wig and did not train their voice it would be different.  I know people like that and community talks about them.  They think they are odd but they accept them.  I am odd.

Nature loves diversity and society hates diversity.

I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!

I think, as a generalization, that we all want to be attractive in some manner.  Some wish to be so due to societal expectations while others want to be just for themselves.  Unfortunately, American culture places a high emphasis on beauty.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on August 17, 2011, 07:02:34 PM
I think, as a generalization, that we all want to be attractive in some manner.  Some wish to be so due to societal expectations while others want to be just for themselves.  Unfortunately, American culture places a high emphasis on beauty.

Most people want to be attractive and most people like to look young.  Society tends to reserve word "pretty" for females and "handsome" for males.  I've had MTF's tell me I am handsome.  I have also heard FTM's complain because they look pretty.

Had group session this evening with about 40 people of which 10% were FTM.  I dressed as nice as I could.  I had a pretty blouse and capri and comfy mules.  I had my pink nails nice jewelry and my hair was nice.  I got addresses by several friends with my male name.

I saw a beautiful 16 year old in which her parents allowed her to have SRS from a top surgeon.

Chairwoman gave number of good sayings in which I will share one, "If you never yourself to fail then you will never succeed."

If I never try anything because I am so scared of being a freak then I will never transition.

One lady talked about life experiences that she has received being a woman that she would never have experience if she had not transitioned.  Her thoughts were inspirational and I felt a prettiness beyond just how I looked.

Quote from: wendy on August 11, 2011, 06:36:56 PM
It bothers me but I actually would like to be pretty  Do other people feel that way.

I obsess every single day!! I'm concerned every day with how I look and how well I'm dressed etc. I never have enough clothes, or shoes or accessories!!!!! I'm never satisfied with my lack of hips and lower natural waist, and dream daily of having my face fixed or getting a tummy tuck or fat transfer to my hips and butt, or breast augmentation!

Very obsessed! :P

Hayley,
you pretty well summed it up for me too.

Aren't we all in some way or other this way?
Granted if totally immersed in a work-/ income-process, it may well take a backseat --- but I guess only then.

Axelle

Quote from: wendy on August 16, 2011, 06:46:58 PM

If everyone accepted me I would still want to be pretty.  However I feel it helps if you are pretty if you have confidence issues.

Sooner or later you have to accept yourself.  It does not sound to me like you have.  You will never get others to accept you if you don't accept yourself.  I am not making light, this is really hard!  I think we all have days when we have a crisis in this area. 

We want to be gorgeous, we want to look like the magazines say we should all look.  It just ain't happening for the overwhelming majority of people.  Just accepting you are, and then doing the best you can with what you have is the only way you are ever going to be happy.  I do agree that there is a connection between being pretty inside and being pretty outside.

Like I said, we all have problems with confidence.  My newest avatar was me a few days ago with almost no makeup, just a bit of concealer and some (not enough) lipstick.  And yes, I went out to shop like that.  I would never have done that 3 years ago. 

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: Kristi on August 31, 2011, 06:38:17 PM
Sooner or later you have to accept yourself.  It does not sound to me like you have.  You will never get others to accept you if you don't accept yourself.  I am not making light, this is really hard!  I think we all have days when we have a crisis in this area. 

We want to be gorgeous, we want to look like the magazines say we should all look.  It just ain't happening for the overwhelming majority of people.  Just accepting you are, and then doing the best you can with what you have is the only way you are ever going to be happy.  I do agree that there is a connection between being pretty inside and being pretty outside.

Like I said, we all have problems with confidence.  My newest avatar was me a few days ago with almost no makeup, just a bit of concealer and some (not enough) lipstick.  And yes, I went out to shop like that.  I would never have done that 3 years ago. 

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Thank you Kristy.  You were pretty years ago.  You look nice now.
......................

Got my braces off yesterday.  Almost four years.  My teeth look very pretty.  They look great!  :)

Had a group meeting yesterday evening and I wore a pretty greenish turquoise tunic, capri jeans,  Mary Jane shoes, nice sterling jewelry with earrings, rings, bracelets and necklaces, hot pink nails, minimal makeup, white, cap, and turquoise pocket book.  I left my house that way and a neighbor or two saw me but I think they might not have known it was me.  I certainly passed in car.  I made it to group meeting and some young males exploring their gender were very complimentary.

After meeting I visited a TG friend that was down on her luck and took her and her boyfriend out for some fried chicken.  I ordered meals with a "soft sweet male" voice.  Servers were all young blacks and they knew but were real nice.  My TG friend had purple hair for an upcoming sci-fi event this weekend and her boyfriend was unshaven grubby.  I actually felt comfortable.

Weird thing is I "sort of" felt like I passed even though I did not.  My face looks "boyish" instead of like an older woman. 

I need to repair broken stuff inside of me.  I need to be willing to make a mistake.

Quote from: wendy on September 01, 2011, 03:32:33 PM
Thank you Kristy.  You were pretty years ago.  You look nice now.

Well thanks for the compliment....I think.......   Kinda sounds like I am going downhill.  Guess I am at that,  since I will soon be 50.

Quote from: wendy on September 01, 2011, 03:32:33 PM
Got my braces off yesterday.  Almost four years.  My teeth look very pretty.  They look great!  :)

Congratulations!  I remember what a great confidence booster that was!  Enjoy it, sweetie.  Use that positive momentum.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

You've always been pretty Kristi :)

I've never obsessed with being pretty, I knew that wasn't possible but I did my best to look attractive.  However some days I look in the mirror now and I scare myself :)  Age definitely takes its toll on us but what the heck I earned my wrinkles :D

Aww, you are so sweet, Steph.  And are you nuts?? ?? ??  I have seen some smokin pictures of you, girlfriend!

And it is really nice to see you back here! 

Definitely wanted to be "pretty" throughout my life... Though at the time I thought it was really called "handsome", though I later found out that the real name was "pretty".  I remember being around 8, and my Mom's friends were complimenting me about my hair color.  They said they and others would pay thousands for that color and I loved it; but later I realized that what I was idolizing was the femininity and prettiness of my hair and nothing else.  And in reality, I love it. There are a lot of traits like that besides my hair, but I guess that is one I like.  So I guess, yes, I was obsessed with being pretty.

Years ago I was taken aback by a gay male friend of a gay friend commenting: .".. but you have such beautiful wrists..!"
Never really forgot THAT and the way it made me feel SO weird, not really embarrassed though.

Will THAT ever happen again?! I do have my doubts :-)

Since he was into my 'boy-guise' it's not actually a missed opportunity... not by far LOL.

Axelle

Quote from: Kristi on August 31, 2011, 06:38:17 PM
Like I said, we all have problems with confidence.  My newest avatar was me a few days ago with almost no makeup, just a bit of concealer and some (not enough) lipstick.  And yes, I went out to shop like that.  I would never have done that 3 years ago. 

So in other words, you worked up the courage to go out wearing more makeup than I probably wore when you and I did lunch (including the work week prior to whatever day that was)?   :laugh:

Look, the reality is that a majority of women you would see out and about are simply average...period.  The only problems with confidence that should exist is when people overlook that and strive to present an image that is simply NOT them.  Then you get into the whole 'am I wearing too much makeup' or 'should I have worn more.'  Confidence is about attitude and projection...and I am reasonably certain I am not the only one on the board who has more than 20 years in this game who can attest that as you accept the person you are, the more content you can be to simply "be" without trying to meet some contrived standard...

Quote from: Nurse With Wound on August 12, 2011, 04:45:09 AM
The way I see it is I want to be able to think "If I was a straight guy I'd totally date myself" which isn't very likely though since I'd have to be shorter and have a cute face but I'll try as hard as I can.

+1 My thoughts exactly!

i wanna be the prettiest girl on earth, then teach other girls to be just as pretty as me. :) <3  :angel:

and i wanna be a cheerleader it's like what i want to do so much. i seriously wanna join a cheerleading squad! and i wanna make the world a better place. i wanna be an activist!

Quote from: Alyssa Case on September 17, 2011, 12:21:53 PM
i wanna be the prettiest girl on earth, then teach other girls to be just as pretty as me. :) <3  :angel:

if you believe you are, then that's all you really need  :laugh:

Quote from: Alyssa Case on September 17, 2011, 12:28:39 PM
and i wanna be a cheerleader it's like what i want to do so much. i seriously wanna join a cheerleading squad! and i wanna make the world a better place. i wanna be an activist!

Alyssa you can always be an activist.

If you are high school age you might make cheer leading squad.

My daughter's friend from Columbia entered high school as a boy and was on boy's soccer team.  During summer he visited Columbia and had a breast augmentation and came back to school as a girl.  Coach would not let her on soccer team.  She tried out for girl's lacrosse and was not allowed on that team either.  She was allowed on boy's cross country team.  She was a very pretty girl jogging around with a breast augmentation on boy's cross country team.   

She then was part of fashion shows and dancing in high school and did well in those areas.  She lived as a girl at 15 in 2007.

I live in rather liberal big city and she found it difficult in high school.

Maybe I will be an activist one day.

It's not just us. I went in for a follow up visit to my FFS surgeon and they were having "wrinkle free Wednesday". About 35 what I considered nice looking women where there lining up for botox, to dscuss eye lifts etc etc. Most were 20 years younger than me. It's natural to want to look pretty.

I would still do all this even if I ended up an ugly woman but thankfully that wasn't needed :) I don't consider myself "hot" but I do feel I am an attractive woman, that's good enough for me.

At times I obsess about getting rid of any hint at masculinity, but after that I don't spend a lot of time working on it to perfection.

if I were to list all the things I think make me "not pretty" - then lay aside the specific gender things like no breast and the dangly bits and the hair everywhere...

And someone said "I can magically fix ONE of your issues with your appearance" then I'd ask them to take off about 120 pounds and i could work with whatever else I had going or not going for me.

ALL of my "not pretty" issues start first with being way too fat and having - apparently - no ability to conquer that.

Having been part of the Castro guy scene. I was extremely obsessed with being pretty. I think I am now... I want that validation. Even though it isn't that important overall.

I used to be, not so much anymore.