Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Something happening in my close proximity (not me...) MtF "status" is being -modified- into being... intersexed... (the lie)

Now there is a proposal of marriage. The groom being an officer, which will not make things any easier, - my take. There is this code of conduct, fiancee must pass muster with superior officer(s), etc. etc.

If all goes well... will it?
Then good luck to the new family --- if NOT, it has the potential to destroy the grooms career, right? He will be made laughing stock of fellow officers --- the MAN that was taken in by a "lady-boy" oh my, I can just see it.

That be some burden to put on an SO... and onto oneself at the same time?

Anyone to chip in on this one?

Axelle

Not unheard of...and very closely mirrors a recent high profile case in Texas.  The medical history ONLY became an issue when a spouse died and a money-grubbing whore, I mean ex-wife, decided to get the in-laws to play along with the litigation. 

HOWEVER, it is also critical to remember that SOME M2F's ARE intersexed as that term is used by the medical community...and beyond that, it is THEIR life, so how they present their histories is really nobody elses business.

Hm Ann, interesting take.
In this case I do know that the bride is AMAB, and the medical records, IF they be made available would show just that.

The more interesting point may be, that some would consider to be transsexual is "like" being intersexed i.e. you BRAIN is "intersexed"?

That might be a "novel" legal way of looking at it?

If all goes well, and I do hope that for my friend, it be no issue.
But --- given the situation that he could be black-marked, not promoted or worse made imposible to maintain his carrier, the law might get involved - VERY likely.
In fact it might be a reason to anull the marriage, come to think of it, yes?

Axelle

Quote from: Axélle on August 18, 2011, 09:51:54 AM
If all goes well, and I do hope that for my friend, it be no issue.
But --- given the situation that he could be black-marked, not promoted or worse made imposible to maintain his carrier, the law might get involved - VERY likely.
In fact it might be a reason to anull the marriage, come to think of it, yes?

who knows...annulments are based on the law in a particular jurisdiction. 

But, as noted, it isn't YOUR business, MY business or ANYONE ELSE'S business what story they spin...it is THEIR life, let them handle it as they CHOOSE.  To do anything else is to engage in nothing more than salacious gossip...

Fair enough, I'm just concerned about a friend. No one to speak to either.

It was me holding her hand in hospital, suggesting to come clear in this situation and she did as much as seemed "passable"/possible.
In fact isn't it a kind of scenario a lot of us could wind up in?

Axelle
PS: Letting someone you care for, drive off with loose wheel nuts? --- you might be forgiven to bring it up?

ive seen many trans refer to themselves as Intersex or try to get testing done for intersex because for some, it is a lot easier to digest being intersex than transsexual. Some girls I know who get tests results back that shows they are not intersex will say the tests were done wrong.

I know in my area there a lot of girls who want to be known as intersex. In my opinion, if you're not intersex then it's going to be ok! As Ann said, I see this also rise up when it comes to legal cases.

I think when the world becomes more acceptable, we will see less trans people incorrectly diagnosing themselves as intersex

It seems a strange thing the world over, that intersex is so much more acceptable then transsexual?

So many people still seem to think the latter is some sort cross-dressing variety show number (TV?), as to -ONLY- having some mixed up plumbing, oh shame, being so much more OK.

Though I'm not at all clear yet, whether claiming to be intersex and you not, be a cause for "Arglistige Hintergehung" (German law) something like -Fraudulent deceiving- in the case of marriage.

Axelle

Quote from: Annah on August 18, 2011, 10:21:56 AM
ive seen many trans refer to themselves as Intersex or try to get testing done for intersex because for some, it is a lot easier to digest being intersex than transsexual. Some girls I know who get tests results back that shows they are not intersex will say the tests were done wrong.

I've often thought of getting tested for a certain intersex condition given the sheer number of physical characteristics I possess (even moreso when I was nearly 200 pounds because of a reaction to a stomach acid medication).  But then I wonder what on earth that would accomplish.  I'd know, yes, but would that change anything about my self-image?  I'm comfortable with who and what I am, and that's really all I need.

Maybe someday, if I had enough disposable income to frivolously throw a couple thousand dollars around, I'd do the test in order to satisfy my curiosity.  But for now, I simply go on living this life the only way I know how.

Quote from: Axélle on August 18, 2011, 10:37:03 AM
So many people still seem to think the latter is some sort cross-dressing variety show number (TV?), as to -ONLY- having some mixed up plumbing, oh shame, being so much more OK.

Such is the net result when people insist on lumping transsexuals under the same 'transgender' umbrella as the drag queens and cross-dressers...

QuoteThough I'm not at all clear yet, whether claiming to be intersex and you not, be a cause for "Arglistige Hintergehung" (German law) something like -Fraudulent deceiving- in the case of marriage.

If the parties to the marriage both know what is going on, there is no fraud that can be alleged *AND SUSTAINED*. 

Quote from: Axélle on August 18, 2011, 10:37:03 AM
It seems a strange thing the world over, that intersex is so much more acceptable then transsexual?

So many people still seem to think the latter is some sort cross-dressing variety show number (TV?), as to -ONLY- having some mixed up plumbing, oh shame, being so much more OK.

Though I'm not at all clear yet, whether claiming to be intersex and you not, be a cause for "Arglistige Hintergehung" (German law) something like -Fraudulent deceiving- in the case of marriage.

Axelle

I think it has a lot to do with acceptance. The word "transsexual" is a lot harder to digest than "intersex." Also, people feel that being intersex you literally had no choice in how you were born. It just is what it is. Whereas some people feel that it is a choice being transsexual.

Now of course, we do not think it is a choice but when trans present themselves as intersex when they know they are not intersex, it is more of a feeling to be more validly accepted.

I think IS vs.  TS has more to do with self-acceptance then anything else.  I wonder how many IS women have faced the same rejections as TS women when they disclose their medical history to a potential partner?

Ann,
If the parties to the marriage both know what is going on, there is no fraud that can be alleged *AND SUSTAINED*. 

And if they not? That being the "lie" portion of the OP.

As in the case of declaring yourself intersex and you are not?

The other party could/would have cause, finding out accidentally or otherwise, for "Fraudulent deceiving" or what ever the US term would be.

A similar case, presenting as natal female getting married, and being pre- or non-op --- OR post-op?!

It happened before, also visa versa.

Axelle

If the SPOUSE did not know, then there would likely be a basis for an annulment.  But again, that depends on the jurisdiction...

In the case I was referring to, the spouse WAS aware of the history prior to the marriage.  And IMO, that makes it a situation to be addressed between the two consenting adults...