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im sorry im just super tired, super stressed and just... but ill try to ask the question as simple as i can

does anyone know if taking hormones can change your sexual preference?

my doctor told me, the gender theraphist that i may be so solid that im not interested in guys but somewhere down the road if i go on with this i might, coz it will cause some changes in my brain. upto the point before i took these, it was like that, my stand i mean... im not into men, im into women exclusively. now im on it for a few months now like4 months? ONLY. im just on estro and spiro come on. and i just dont understand. as the days go by im losing more and more interest in women and im just getting more interested in men, which just started pretty recently.

im just so confused on what is going on in me. and for some reason i dont know why too but emotions seem to hit me significantly harder now so thats making it worse for me. im in a relationship and... its not with a guy. and i dont know what to think and say. im just getting any advice any info just anything from anyone. i just ... i dont know, i dont want to want men but im having hard time controlling myself.

thanks in advance. sorry if that was a bit messy

Here is a post that was posted on the FTM board yesterday talking about this subject.  https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,104459.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,104459.0.html)

alright i read the post though im not sure if i should post/reply there it seems to be on the FtM section and we do take different kinds right? I mean last i heard all you take there is testosterone. on our end we take testosterone blockers, you know ive always wondered why theres no such things as estrogen blockers or if there is why you dont take em there.

but ok ill tell my story there too in case it helps

Well, I'll tell you what...a lot of our sexual preferences is based on how we perceive ourselves. As we go through a huge transition where a lot of things about our physical appearance and mental self-image change, our sexual preferences can evolve with us, in a way.

Sometimes our orientation is so permanently etched into our neurons, that it pretty much remains the same in spite of transitioning. A lot of people that I've talked to, though, find that sexual orientation becomes more nebulous as time goes on. Most of the people in my local support group have described themselves post-transition as pansexual or bisexual, at the least.

But sometimes these things remain the same. We're all constantly evolving as people, whether we're transitioning or not. Transitioning just gives us a new perspective on things, and you can find out a lot about yourself that you might have hidden otherwise.

Quote from: gantz on August 27, 2011, 01:18:49 AM
does anyone know if taking hormones can change your sexual preference?

I am of teh opinion that any changes in orientation are not because of HRT but rather that the individual chooses to explore that which they previously did not, whether due to internal or societal pressures. 

I can tell you that mine did NOT change...I have ALWAYS identified (as long as identification of a choice of prospective partner has existed) as a lesbian.  That goes back to middle school when one first begins to recognize sexual attractions.  And being in Houston during that era, I had a broad exposure in the media to many things gay and lesbian...so I definitely knew the difference between straight and gay/lesbian back then.  Straight girls were never really the objects of my desire and I usually had a pretty good read on who was and was not lesbian...although that was likely honed by beginning to hit the lesbian bars by the time I was 14 or 15. 

Now 30 years later and a good chunk of that post-operative, nothing has changed...I still have no romantic interest in guys and, quite frankly, don't care to socialize around many of them.  I've just run into too many close to the house who get a little too touchy-feely once they have a few adult beverages in them...it is as if the alcohol makes them forget that lesbian means they have no shot at getting me in bed.   

Quote from: Ann Onymous on August 29, 2011, 03:16:14 PM
I am of teh opinion that any changes in orientation are not because of HRT but rather that the individual chooses to explore that which they previously did not, whether due to internal or societal pressures. 

Quoted for truth. I totally agree.

Transitioning is such a powerfully introspective way to understand more about yourself.

so from what you two have been like saying its not the hormones per se that its just me...

i dont know if im in some denial. but it is a fact as well that my appearance HAS changed and the attention and the kind of attention that i get has ALSO changed. like earlier this neighbor here has been like asking me if he can help me like 4 freakin times. that would never have happened in my past. sometimes i wonder if its the guys that im getting attracted to or the treatment. its possible right? i mean i willl admit, ive never ever had gotten this KIND of attention before. i mean girls dont run to you and act nice and... well atleast not tome its always me running to them and kissing their ass etc...

but last night... i kissed a guy for the first time in my freakin life. i dont know what to think right now anymore. it cant be attention coz i already got the attention i think at that point it was just freakin lust. but then that would mean i do ... actually uhm... want guys now really???

im almost 30 ok. this just started a couple of months ago. til then i never even had any thoughts about men. if it was like a deeply seeded desire or thought, shouldnt i have i dont know... it wouldve peeked at atleast one occasion right but it never did. now im wondering if im jsut going flat out nuts. hahahahahahahah

but maybe... it is true. that it might be me taht simply changed howi dont know. i wish i can find out uhm...

I'm going to have to wholeheartedly disagree with those people who have said HRT has nothing to do with sexual preference. I think it's a "Your Mileage May Vary" type of thing. For me, I've never been attracted to men. I've tried to keep an open mind, but the idea just... filled me with revulsion. I took hormones when I was 22 (illegally; very much the wrong way), and after being on them for about a month, I noticed that I was finding men a lot more attractive. I thought to myself, "Okay, I must be bisexual." When I stopped taking the hormones, that just went away. I never even thought about it until years later when I was on hormones again (this time the right way), and about a month into hormones, I started getting really boy-crazy. I've always been attracted to women. I enjoyed having sex with women. Hell, I miss having sex with women. However, now, I just don't find them attractive at all. Like, there's just nothing there. Oh, but men? Mrawr! God, makes me flustered just thinking about it!

Gantz, I do not agree totality agree with the posters above.
Hrt does help to rewire your brain.
Before hrt I wanted sex with my wife all the time.
Now that I am on it I'm not intrested in sex and am so happy to just have a deep friendship with her.
Many mtfs who start hrt loose there sex drive at least for awhile.
I am glad that mine is gone. Now I am so much calmer and can enter into real relationships without having the sex thing get in the way.
But I am also noticing that some guy are cute.
So who know how I will feel in the future?
Gantz, I would be careful if I were you and not get in any serious relationship just yet.
But there is nothing wrong with exploring the changes.

well my doc has told me something about your brain being rewired or something.

so OK its not jsut me then. then im not going crazy here.

i wonder if itll be the same thing too for me if i stop taking it. i dont intend to though but thats useful info for people out there. i mean lets assume it is true that preference has some direct tie to the hormones we take... lets say one person gets into a relationship with someone and get really dead serious (maybe even to the point of leaving their wife or husband) then one day stops taking it and everything just changes thats... that sounds like a really big deal i guess, youd like wake up again wanting something completely different. I think that can drive some people nuts you know

but yeah jill, youre right. me in this state, im not in good form to get into something serious. ill just hurt myself and others. i dont know. well thats wht seems to be what i ought to do. i just hope i can control myself and do what i ought to do and not lose into well... whatever this is.

I think, definitely, it depends on the person more than anything. That I do agree with.

I think that's pretty much a constant when it comes to anything HRT-related. :)

Quote from: mechakitty on August 29, 2011, 09:49:45 PM
I think, definitely, it depends on the person more than anything. That I do agree with.

I think that's pretty much a constant when it comes to anything HRT-related. :)

In other words... YMMV  ;)

Yepyep. :D

I think it is a combination of becoming comfortable with your identity and untangling the unconscious confusion of sexuality with gender, and HRT affecting the brain. 

Hormones are powerful but all the anecdoial evidence on here seems to indicate it definitely is one of those YMMV things. 

I had a lot of trouble working out what my true orientation was prior to starting to transition, but am now comfortable with the fact that I am totally uninterested in men, and although I did enjoy the experiences I did have, cannot visualise doing such again.  The idea just will not form in my brain, unlike when I was first questioning my sexuality. I was able to imagine sex with a man or a woman then, but not now.

Karen.

I think some people's orientation wanders anyway. So I have months at a time where I'm more into women, or more into men, or more into celibacy... just fancying who you fancy at the time without making a career out of it feels quite nice, once you get used to it :D. It may be a stable thing, and it may not - and it may be affected by hormones, and it may not. Fun watching it, whatever.

Padma, I just flapped in the wind, went around in a circle and ended up where I started. Seem to be a lot more set in direction now.
Karen.

Cool :) - I like to think of myself as gently oscillating these days rather than flapping ;D - but there were years of running away in all directions at once before it settled down.

I think it's entirely possible for hormones to 'change' your orientation, but I think it's one of those things that varies from person to person..  My orientation didn't change at all.. Men before, Men after.. What kind of man has changed though..

Yeah, I haven't even started on hormones yet, and alongside my awakening femaleness, I've reoriented from emo boys towards plumbers (when it comes to men...) - I still fall for wiry lesbians, but then I always have ::).

most straight girls here have a tradie high on their list of things to look for in a bloke, so fancying a plumber makes sense to me Padma. ;)
The wiry lesbians are probably all carpenters too! ::)

Quote from: justmeinoz on August 30, 2011, 03:24:23 AM
I think it is a combination of becoming comfortable with your identity and untangling the unconscious confusion of sexuality with gender, and HRT affecting the brain. 

Hormones are powerful but all the anecdoial evidence on here seems to indicate it definitely is one of those YMMV things. 

I had a lot of trouble working out what my true orientation was prior to starting to transition, but am now comfortable with the fact that I am totally uninterested in men, and although I did enjoy the experiences I did have, cannot visualise doing such again.  The idea just will not form in my brain, unlike when I was first questioning my sexuality. I was able to imagine sex with a man or a woman then, but not now.

Karen.

If this was your experience, I believe you. I'm not questioning it.

For me, there wasn't any questioning of sexuality. I was into women, now I am into men. Simple as that.

To Original Poster:
The potential for changing sexual orientation varies in the way everything else with hormones does. Boobs grow different, hair, muscle definition, emotions, everything. I think it's good to know that the potential is there, but it'd be hard to gauge whether or not it would affect you in the same way.

so ... its like getting a person drunk? in the sense that different people will do different things? like some get horny, confrontational, emo, sing, silent, just pass out immediately etc?

i wonder if, its the current state of our bodies and heads by the time that we do take the hormones that does determine the effect. from what your saying here and there it sounds like it. sounds pretty hard to predetermine the potential changes then... i guess for us youll never really know until you take it?

well, i guess like audrey, for me it did just change, and only, after i started on the theraphy.

sorry i just woke up, my heads a complete buzz right now.

I could never imagine!  I was married to a pretty girl and never thought twice about guys, but I knew I had to begin HRT.  About 3 months later my wife left me and I began to have this urge to have a man in my mouth.  I'm still not happy with my progress, but I can say that girls do nothing for me now.  I can't explain why, but now all I need is a good man!   

I can't say my preference changed, but the mental freedom that came from resolving my gender issues gave me the ability to open up to what I'd repressed my entire life: that I liked guys.  I dated girls for their company, but hated (!!!) the idea of sleeping with them or having sex.  I fooled myself into thinking I was merely "sensitive" and "civilized" but the truth was that I didn't like girls sexually.

I'm so relieved not to have to keep up that charade anymore!

I have changed, I guess or maybe just let myself be who I really am. I have never been with a man before, but now after a couple months on hormones I barely look at women but I find myself extremely attracted to men, good looking men that is. Fat, old, and balding doesn't do anything for me but but I think that is true for most genetic women too.  :laugh:

Sex with women for me was mostly an unpleasant experience that I never really enjoyed and pretty much avoided it, which can be hazardous to the health of your marriage as was my case.

Yeah i used to like women and now I like men.

I'm afraid I don't buy all this stuff about seeing yourself differently and being restrained by social norms. I spent a good chunk of my life as a male trying to be gay but I just couldn't get into guys at all. There were no constraints - my parents encouraged me to try men; I had an uncle and aunt in same-sex relationships... it was normal from my childhood. I just wasn't interested in men until I started oestrogen and now i'm turned off by the thought of being with a woman.

Essentially it's what happens to YOU that matters. If you have an existing partner it might cause problems but if not you're free to be what you want to be at any given time. Enjoy.

Quote from: Cassie on September 04, 2011, 04:57:01 AM
Yeah i used to like women and now I like men.

I'm afraid I don't buy all this stuff about seeing yourself differently and being restrained by social norms. I spent a good chunk of my life as a male trying to be gay but I just couldn't get into guys at all. There were no constraints - my parents encouraged me to try men; I had an uncle and aunt in same-sex relationships... it was normal from my childhood. I just wasn't interested in men until I started oestrogen and now i'm turned off by the thought of being with a woman.

Essentially it's what happens to YOU that matters. If you have an existing partner it might cause problems but if not you're free to be what you want to be at any given time. Enjoy.

The bolded part is what brings it all back to inate wiring from birth...rare is the instance where you find someone who just wakes up one morning and DECIDED to be gay or lesbian.  If one is not wired for a gay relationship, it won't happen...and that would make the bolded portion make perfect sense- as a guy, you had no interest in being with other guys.  Similarly, as a woman, you have no apparent interest in dating women.

That is not dissimilar from what I have described in other posts- it was not women in general that I was interested in from my earliest years of romantic interest but rather the lesbian of the species.  Had no interest whatsoever in dating guys of either hetero or homosexual orientation.  And nothing about HRT has changed any of that...

I had an interesting experience at the weekend that has definitely confirmed that I am now 100% Dyke!

I was at a party and late in the evening when we had all had a few, or several, two bi women were having sex on a sofa, and I found it a real turn on.  If one of them had been a guy though,  I know I would have had to leave, or more probably thrown up.  That definitely would not have been the case pre-HRT.

Karen. 

Well on that score call my gay, I liked girls since EVER I can recall.
My first '.... dive' having been at ~ age 4 ! Hello :-)
Yes, and naughty me I did like it too.

But now wait a minute... wasn't it: Girls for friends, guys for sex?

Always provided there is 'availability' um,
Axelle

My first "school girl crush on a straight girl" actually happened this year, just before I went full-time, so I got to enjoy it as a sexually aware adult.
I knew it would go nowhere,  that if I acted on it I would ruin a great friendship, and it was short lived.  It was an enjoyable experience though, and I guess she will always have a special place in my heart.  If she ever does decide to bat for our team I'll be giving her a call.
I don't dislike men either Axelle, but just can't relate to them as anything other than a friend now.
Karen

Karen,
when I say: "Girls for friends, guys for sex" There is a catch... guys are scary, as scary as they are for a younger woman - I think.

Maybe that, if handled well makes for great sex?
Say Mr. Big in "Sex and the City"? Yummy!!!

We all want to be ravished (somehow) but, you got to get practice, even in being ravished.

Now guys for friends? ? ? Booooring............ unless we want to talk General Motors, fishing, sex (the male version), and why your boat motor doesn't start ------- oh, really?
Nah, not really.

Time out for that stuff, uhm :-) YMMV
Axelle
PS: Girly sex is save, save, save, .... until you get your heart broken, of course

Quote from: Axélle on September 05, 2011, 08:38:54 AM
Well on that score call my gay, I liked girls since EVER I can recall.

It was not just a liking of girls in general...it was the affinity for the lesbian of the species.  I could be friends with straight girls (hey, it was Houston...we had a LOT of exposure to the whole gay/lesbian thing long before much of the country got mainstream) but they never stirred anything for me from an emotional standpoint.

Hm,

'straight' girls do start girl-on-girl relationships, that may become intimate.
Then you ask them --- they still think they straight, well sort of :-)

I'm not hung on what some may term a "diesel-dyke", THAT... just too far out.
More into lipstick lesbians. YMMV

Trouble with these --- if of child bearing age, they often then STILL want a baby, and run off with some dude. Now THAT can hurt badly for sure.

Life, what else to say...
Axelle

Honey,
I'm not doing a WHAT IF here. I have seen it more then once.
Very butch lesbian will find it a lot more difficult, due to the lower male attraction factor.
All quite normal, um.
Also affectional attractions may change over time, whether you do like the idea or not.

No idea what is offensive in that --- since married guys with or with out kids also may find a gay male partner is the better match after some time.

No need to get offended, it's life, that's all.

Axelle

Quote from: Axélle on September 05, 2011, 11:00:38 AM
Hm,

'straight' girls do start girl-on-girl relationships, that may become intimate.
Then you ask them --- they still think they straight, well sort of :-)

not in high school, at least not in my era...this was back before Newsweek and the other rags made the cover story about "bi" being one of the new cool things.  You were either lesbian or not...there was no middle ground. 

QuoteMore into lipstick lesbians. YMMV

Trouble with these --- if of child bearing age, they often then STILL want a baby, and run off with some dude. Now THAT can hurt badly for sure.

As Sarah so rightly chastised you, the above IS offensive.  I know plenty of lesbian women who elected to have kids by way of IVF (in fact, I have a gold-star friend who has two kids that way that her insurance paid for the IVF procedures for her partner).  And an even greater number who have no maternal instinct.  Of those that do have a maternal instinct, it DOES NOT mean they are going to run off to shack up with some man.  Have there been lesbians who left a relationship for someone of the other sex?  Sure, but it is far from a regular occurrence...and given that the lesbian community has been MY community for 30 years, I would say that I have some significant measure of insight into how things tend to work.   

And your follow-up response to Sarah was equally appalling.  It clearly demonstrates that you have no real clue about the lesbian community other than to try and apply the few stereotypes that you might have heard somewhere.   

Quote from: Axélle on September 05, 2011, 09:47:48 AM
We all want to be ravished (somehow) but, you got to get practice, even in being ravished.

:o :o >:-) >:-)

well adding things, i guess its not just preference too unless im being stupid to think this but... the feelings out of things seem to have changed as well. kissing a guy back then, the thought was like vomit inducing now i actually find it more pleasurable than kissing a girl, or more like it - better than any i have ever had - and it cant be just because its new, hey i had my first time with girls too obviously right. now it feels icky to kiss a girl somehow. maybe its possible the things im taking are causing some rewiring my head if thats the case, and maybe for me im just less resistant to it while others are more resistant.

i somehow find it hard to think that the change is also just coz im playing for the other team now. coz before taking these hormones i was already doing that real life deal. it cant be coz of how people interact with me, coz that also has not changed - and i dont look any better too.

i only know of two lesbians in my life. one has lived like so ever since i can remember and i just heard one day she left her lesbian lover and ran off with a guy or something, shes the lipstick type if thats what you call them. the other, shes the other type i dont kow what theyre called, and sometimes i do wonder if shes like this coz she really likes women or that she just feels no guy would want her. i dont know how i got that impression on her. well, im pretty sure on that one it was notttt due to hormones though since neither have taken any. well, thats as far as waht i know i guess... dont think i can make any manner of conclusion there since theres just 2 for me.

Just a small added reference to the ALL knowing around here...

I was married to a BI, come lesbian with plenty of lesbian friends, that being some 28 years back! And ALSO long before being BI was being 'fashionable' as you call it.

So you just go call me an ignorant  sexist, and * ... have no real clue about the lesbian community other than to try and apply the few stereotypes that you might have heard somewhere.   *

I f**ing well LIVED it!

You sure give me some practice in getting flamed - thank you!

Shame on you!

Axelle
PS: * Generalizing to millions of people is going to lead to errors in judgment. *
Now isn't that just what your are doing also, right now? Unless you know the other 1 million you referred to? All of us can ONLY come from what we happen to have experienced, - and THAT ALSO applies to someone like you. Believe it or NOT!

Truce, everybody?  Let's all just take a deep breath, visualize a happy moment, and get back to the topic at hand. :)  Pretty please?

Quote from: Zoë Natasha on September 02, 2011, 05:54:13 PM
I can't say my preference changed, but the mental freedom that came from resolving my gender issues gave me the ability to open up to what I'd repressed my entire life: that I liked guys.  I dated girls for their company, but hated (!!!) the idea of sleeping with them or having sex.  I fooled myself into thinking I was merely "sensitive" and "civilized" but the truth was that I didn't like girls sexually.

I'm so relieved not to have to keep up that charade anymore!

This is exactly me.  The only difference is that going through that made it so I don't really trust what my brain says about my sexuality.  Like I totally convinced myself that I liked girls, but kissing? Blech! Sex? Quadruple blech!  Ewww!  Naked girls?  Yawn..  Shopping?  Talking?  Being best friends?  Oh yes, I love her.  If my brain was able to do that, I just can't trust it when it tells me I like guys now.  That fluttery stomach feeling they give me, I don't trust that either lol.  I'm waiting to see how that first kiss from a man makes me feel before I say anything about my sexuality. 

Slight digression, not feeling social pressure to date girls has been one of the huge side-benefits of coming out/starting transition.

Sarah,
truce.

"We do not see things they way they are, - we see things the way WE are"
And BTW, I have NO issue to apply this also to myself.

Also no need to apologize for me, I beg you! That's just so downright patronizing to the oldest female on the block. Wow, girl, take a deep breath as was suggested.
I'm grown up enough at 65, to know when that is needed. And then I'm quite capable to do it myself.

@Jen,
* I'm waiting to see how that first kiss from a man makes me feel before I say anything about my sexuality. 

... not feeling social pressure to date girls has been one of the huge side-benefits of coming out/starting transition. *

Thanks for that input, it also speaks for me, quite easily :-)

How did Bob Marley sing it? "No woman, no pain..." he he.

That's got something to it, eh
Axelle

I'm just starting a relationship with a woman (I'm off to see her today for the first time since we admitted being into each other :)) and she knows I'm transitioning, but I've no idea how this is going to work. On paper, she can relate to me as "becoming a woman", and she's bi, but I suspect the reality will be more challenging for both of us, if we get seriously involved. In my mind, we're starting a lesbian relationship, and in hers? Going to need a lot of talking as well as the "other stuff" :D.

Funny - I was planning on not being sexually active while I was going through this transition, but as people plan, the gods giggle... when you meet the right person, stuff just starts happening. But I find myself both wanting a man in my life, and at the same time acknowledging that the kind of man I want may not exist. I'm more and more physically attracted to very masculine men, and more and more turned off by those same men's personalities! It's all good - one partner at a time is complex enough.

You can join the line of us lesbians who'd go straight for Sean Connery, then Padma. :laugh:  Hope you have a great date.

I'm off to see a counsellor this afternoon to get over my fears of being rejected by other women because of the genital difference.  I hadn't planned on socialising until after SRS, but it's just been too bloody lonely for too many years.  Friends are great, but we all need someone special too. Will post if there is anything worthwhile to come out of it.

Karen.

Although my orentation is still pointed toward women, I have found that the what attracts me to people is  has  changed, these days I am more attracted to a person's personalty and how nice they are , rather then attraction based on appearance. Although it is still that way, based on looks , personalty plays a part in it to. this started to change to be more like this, once I started taking hormones a little over a year ago,  I feel what it is the Estrogen is changing the way my brain is wired and my feels toward people are now much more complex, as I feel my brain is getting a lot more female. I don't always understand all of my feelings and why I have them, I just accept that it is because I am a woman and I am still relativityly young.

Quotethese days I am more attracted to a person's personalty and how nice they are , rather then attraction based on appearance.

Me too. Appearance could turn me on before hrt but now it's just a ho hum with out a good personalty. ;)

Honestly I don't think HRT changed my sexual orientation that much apart from making me feel  more at ease with my sexuality. Always been attracted to strong women but for me it's all about being wanted, that sounds awful I know. Never, ever have I made the first move. I just like the way women look and the way their minds work, virtually all my friends are women and I feel unease around men although I've been with a couple who at the time I was hopelessly in love with. Is that denial or is it just that I can't live with them because they infuriate me and so end up in relationships with women?