Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Friday night Sandy and I went out to a TG friendly bar.  I hadn't been there in quite a while and hoped to meet up with some old friends.  Sandy met a guy there who was enamoured with her and she spent a lot of time with him.  He later came up to me and asked if I was okay with me talking to her.  I said as long as she doesn't object I certainly don't.

The next day Sandy tells me the guy said to her he knew I was a woman.  "I kind of peeked down her blouse and checked her butt out.  She's a woman."  Well I was totally flattered!  I must have asked her half a dozen times, "Now, what did he say again?"  ;D

Last night we stopped at a burrito place to get a take out.  One of the cooks in back looked right at me and smiled, not flirtatiously.  On the drive home Sandy mentioned how the guy clocked us, totally.  All the wind left my sails.

To get such a flattering comment then follow it with such an obvious read really bummed me out.  Just when I'm convinced I can be stealth this happens.   :(

I'm realistic.  I know I have male markers I will be able to do nothing about.  But when I'm out doing everyday things I never get a "read" look and I've found myself more comfortable because of that.  Then this happens and it sets me back.  It's not a major setback by any means.  I'm not depressed or anything, just a little bummed out.

Okay, I'm done whining now.

Julie

Yeah I understand.  I can get down in the dumps if I even suspect I was read (which I think happens somewhat regularly).

Melissa

I'll bet you get read regularly alright... as female. I can't imagine anyone mistaking you as male.

Karen Lyn

Quote from: KarenLyn on February 18, 2007, 12:44:35 PM
I'll bet you get read regularly alright... as female. I can't imagine anyone mistaking you as male.

Karen Lyn

Of course a lot of people see me as female since I'm fulltime.  I meant read as TS.

Melissa

To be read as TS they'd have to be thinking you used to be a man. I don't see it happening hon.

Karen Lyn     :icon_female:

Quote from: KarenLyn on February 18, 2007, 04:29:10 PM
To be read as TS they'd have to be thinking you used to be a man. I don't see it happening hon.

Thanks Karen. :)

Melissa

To all three of you. Don't worry about it. What I see in your pictures are three wonderful women. Have fun and don't worry about what others think. They don't know and you are not going to tell them.
Sheila

Quote from: Sheila on February 18, 2007, 04:49:19 PM
To all three of you. Don't worry about it. What I see in your pictures are three wonderful women. Have fun and don't worry about what others think. They don't know and you are not going to tell them.
Sheila

What she said!

Quote from: Sheila on February 18, 2007, 04:49:19 PM
To all three of you. Don't worry about it. What I see in your pictures are three wonderful women.

Make that 4 now. ;)

Melissa

Hey there Julie, don't fret it happens now and then.  It's a little blow to the old ego, try to draw something positive from the encounter such as what could have tipped them off, was it something you said, something you did, body language etc.  Don't dwell on the negative.

Chat later hon.

Steph

Quote from: Steph on February 18, 2007, 05:51:59 PM
what could have tipped them off, was it something you said, something you did, body language etc. 

Steph

Maybe ordering one of their "football sized" burritos gave me away!  :laugh:

Julie

Quote from: Julie Marie on February 18, 2007, 06:55:57 PM
Maybe ordering one of their "football sized" burritos gave me away!  :laugh:

Julie

Did you eat it all?

Melissa

I hate the term clocked. Call me old fashioned read works best for me....

Quote from: Steph on February 18, 2007, 05:51:59 PM
Hey there Julie, don't fret it happens now and then.  It's a little blow to the old ego, try to draw something positive from the encounter such as what could have tipped them off, was it something you said, something you did, body language etc.  Don't dwell on the negative.

Chat later hon.

Steph

Sounds fair to me I think no matter what you do some people are just super tuned in and they just read you when most people just see a woman.

When I feel this has happened to me I do what Steph suggested and use it to turn up the volume and work harder towards totally passing. If im not feeling that energetic I try to ACCEPT IT for what it is a fact of life here or there.


Smiles for you
Kristina 

Quote from: Julie Marie on February 18, 2007, 12:13:13 PM
Last night we stopped at a burrito place to get a take out.  One of the cooks in back looked right at me and smiled, not flirtatiously.  On the drive home Sandy mentioned how the guy clocked us, totally.  All the wind left my sails.

Awl, well hey, are you SURE that was an obvious read? I mean heck, a guy could be smiling at you, or maybe he was smiling at something someone just said, or a joke he just remembered, or... ?

Kate

Quote from: Kate on February 18, 2007, 09:41:42 PM

Quote from: Julie Marie on February 18, 2007, 12:13:13 PM
Last night we stopped at a burrito place to get a take out.  One of the cooks in back looked right at me and smiled, not flirtatiously.  On the drive home Sandy mentioned how the guy clocked us, totally.  All the wind left my sails.

Awl, well hey, are you SURE that was an obvious read? I mean heck, a guy could be smiling at you, or maybe he was smiling at something someone just said, or a joke he just remembered, or... ?

Kate

true thats a bit vague. Good point!

Kristina

The thing is, sometimes you don't pass well and people wonder.  There will come a time when you might get an odd look, but rarely will you get clocked.  There is great diversity and people are used to that.  Most people can't put all the clues together when there are obvious feminine traits.

Don a worry aboud it.  Be happy.

Chin up!

Cindi

I try not to be too paranoid but small things can still set me off, like today in the IT department I was trying to get something sorted out and the woman at the desk asked annother woman walking past "could you give us a hand with a problem she's having" now because they had thick scottish accents the different between she and he not a big one and I thought they said he at first.


More and more i'm slowly letting go of things like that, like I used to sort of emmerse myself in social awareness to see who was looking at me who maybe read me ect and it's just not worth the fuss, I stopped because people just stopped reading me but I wish I stopped earlier as it's just not worth the angst.

QuoteFriday night Sandy and I went out to a TG friendly bar.  I hadn't been there in quite a while and hoped to meet up with some old friends.  Sandy met a guy there who was enamoured with her and she spent a lot of time with him.  He later came up to me and asked if I was okay with me talking to her.  I said as long as she doesn't object I certainly don't.

The next day Sandy tells me the guy said to her he knew I was a woman.  "I kind of peeked down her blouse and checked her butt out.  She's a woman."  Well I was totally flattered!  I must have asked her half a dozen times, "Now, what did he say again?" 

Actually, just by this statment, any of us would have already been read from the very begining. If we are going to TG, or TS freindly places, then that means the people there are used to seeing TS's or what not. Also just the fact that a guy might "confirm" with our friends, or his freinds that we were "a woman" is further eveidence that he was already turned on towards suspicion to any woman that he meets that night, so he knew that TS's would probbly be there that night. Just becuase we might win a "suspicion" game, doesn't mean that we should assume that we won a "stealth" game, which is another reason why I don't like that term stealth, it infers hiding or something. Passing as a woman is totally different than Being a woman, and Living as a female, as opposed to living as a Passable transsexual. Which there is nothing wrong that if thats the path a person chooses and the way someone wants to live.

But if we are wanting to be females, live women's lives, and "pass" as who we are, than "TG" freindly places is not the places that we need to look for validation. These are just places that we may occasionaly win the suspicion games, but we are not passing the "life" game in places like this. Natal woman don't have to pass confirmation assements in their daily lives, to be validated as females, so neaither should we. 

I can go out to eat with my parents, or go shopping in WalMart with my mom, or go to a teenage laden malt shop at night, or go on a date with my boyfriend anytime, or go to work, and never be taken for anything other than the girl I am. However, I can go to the Bann Sirri in BKK, or I can go to the local TS freindly Club, or to my electrolgist and be Read imeadiatly, or at the very least be suspected. All beit I will pass the "suspicion" game, and it will prolly be agreed upon that I am "stealth" or at the least a very passable and pretty TS girl, but I won't be read as just an everday no need to explain female, and in my mind this is not validation of anything, no matter how good or bad I look. 

Also I would just like to point out that I am not saying anything about having to be "beautiful". or "pretty" to pass. Its just about being female, and living as a girl, or a woman, and this has nothing to do with being pretty. I would anyday rather be an ugly girl that never gets noticed, than to be a gorgeous transsexual that lives "stealth" and passes the suspicion test for validation.

we can all get read or suspected no matter of our physical presence. This depends on our lifestyle, the type of life we live, the vibe we send out, the places we go, the people we hang out with, and the way we feel about ourselves. A lot of the times, we get ourselves read. A lot of the times we are our own worst enemy's, we confirm suspicon by the life we lead, or by the feelings we have of ourselves, or from the places that we seek validation.

Our validation and confirmation is best when it comes from annoymus third party prespective, from average jane doe in the world worrying about her own life. This is where we need to put ourselves, and just disappear into the woodwork, forgeting how to even read ourselves, validating ourselves in the process, in our own lives.

-pass-

Julie,

So sorry that happened to you.  As has been said, no way to know if your perceptions were right or not.  But let's say they were.  OK, have a good cry and if you need a good shoulder, here's mine.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fus.i1.yimg.com%2Fus.yimg.com%2Fi%2Fmesg%2Femoticons%2F60.gif&hash=35bfda1961b5ea06f1ed7dbd07c4a1d6d860a480)

Now that being said, please know that you are one of my favorite people on here.  I love to look at your avatar and wish I could look as good as you do.  You're gorgeous, girl!  I would suspect that may have been what drew the stare.

Peace,
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

To the best of my knowledge, I have never been read. I've been outed on three occasions accidently, but since going stealth last August I have never had a missed pronoun, a problem in a dressing room, a weird look or anything else.

QuoteI would anyday rather be an ugly girl that never gets noticed, than to be a gorgeous transsexual that lives "stealth" and passes the suspicion test for validation.

I don't understand. What's wrong with feeling validation in always passing? This is a verification of the success in the gender role.

Bri

Quote from: Kristi on February 19, 2007, 10:28:01 AM
I love to look at your avatar and wish I could look as good as you do.

:eusa_eh:  Kristi, you're joking, right?  I think your self perception needs a little work.

Melissa

Quote from: passiflora on February 19, 2007, 09:42:10 AM
Actually, just by this statment, any of us would have already been read from the very begining. If we are going to TG, or TS freindly places, then that means the people there are used to seeing TS's or what not. Also just the fact that a guy might "confirm" with our friends, or his freinds that we were "a woman" is further eveidence that he was already turned on towards suspicion to any woman that he meets that night, so he knew that TS's would probbly be there that night. Just becuase we might win a "suspicion" game, doesn't mean that we should assume that we won a "stealth" game

Actually, the way I see it is if the guy is already expecting to run into TGs and still reads you as a woman, that's an even better validation because he's looking for you to be TG but hasn't found any evidence.  And he already knew Sandy was TG so that would further create suspicions I was too.  And still he saw me as a woman.  I'll take that over passing someplace they aren't looking for me to be TG.

Julie

Quote from: Kristi on February 19, 2007, 10:28:01 AM
Julie,

So sorry that happened to you.  As has been said, no way to know if your perceptions were right or not.  But let's say they were.  OK, have a good cry and if you need a good shoulder, here's mine.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fus.i1.yimg.com%2Fus.yimg.com%2Fi%2Fmesg%2Femoticons%2F60.gif&hash=35bfda1961b5ea06f1ed7dbd07c4a1d6d860a480)

Now that being said, please know that you are one of my favorite people on here.  I love to look at your avatar and wish I could look as good as you do.  You're gorgeous, girl!  I would suspect that may have been what drew the stare.

Peace,
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

That's very sweet of you Kristi but I've got nothing on you.  You are a doll!

Julie

QuoteAnd still he saw me as a woman

But course he did, becuase thats what you are and thats what you look like. Which was the only point I was trying to make is that ultimatly we should'nt need this type of validation, that we will jut be.

I was also just trying to let you know, that your being read probbally had nothing to do with your look or appearance, that in certain places and situations we can all be read by default, which is why a lot of us slowly start moving away from places like that and we change our lifestyles and stuff so that we are not in those situations. And I was also just trying to make a point of oppion that eventually in our lives, the ultimate validation is when we no longer have to have validation of our gender, when its not even a second thought, and when the insecurities of there even being a second thought or a sense of suspicion are gone.

-pass- 

Quote from: Julie Marie on February 19, 2007, 11:50:07 AM
That's very sweet of you Kristi but I've got nothing on you.  You are a doll!
Julie

Well the kindness is much appreciated, both Julie and Melissa.  (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.com%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Flove%2F11_4_127v_1_.gif&hash=2eea7ba8f852ad85425ea84d0a6d19e64bfaa91a)

Let me put ito words what I've been working on.  I have come to believe that the most important part of validation is that we first validate ourselves.  If we are looking for anything external to do it for us, we are bound for failure.  There is always someone who will not like what we are, and it may have nothing at all to do with TG issues.  However, when we are able to look into the mirror and validate ourselves, there comes a confidence which will necessarily filter down to every other aspect of our being.  This inner strength and beauty will be what is noticed by those around us.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857) Kristi

Pass, I spend too much time in macho land (I work construction) and I fell back into an old mindset.  When Sandy's friend made that comment I soared.  For a moment I felt bullet proof.  Then when we are in a straight place and some guy gives me "that look" (okay maybe it was a hit and not a read) I let it get to me.

I know what you're saying about situations too.  I read that when two or more TSs go out together the odds of being read increase proportionally and I believe that.  No matter, it's water under the bridge now.  I don't let those kinds of things bother me for long. 

Kristi, you are right about validation, it has to come from within.  Since coming out of denial I've been working on just being me, letting it happen, not forcing it.  And when I just let it flow I don't need outward validation.  I know who I am and if someone has a problem with it, it's their problem, not mine.

I've got half a century of brainwashing to undo so I know it's not going to be as simple as flipping a switch.  But when you get those moments when someone let's you KNOW (as opposed to wondering) it's pretty neat and I don't have a problem letting myself revel in it.

Julie

QuotePass, I spend too much time in macho land (I work construction) and I fell back into an old mindset.  When Sandy's friend made that comment I soared.  For a moment I felt bullet proof.  Then when we are in a straight place and some guy gives me "that look" (okay maybe it was a hit and not a read) I let it get to me.

Its easy to do, but you just have to do the ole new york thing "forget about it"  ;)

and of course it was hit

smiles,
-pass-

Quote from: Julie Marie on February 18, 2007, 06:55:57 PM

Quote from: Steph on February 18, 2007, 05:51:59 PM
what could have tipped them off, was it something you said, something you did, body language etc. 

Steph

Maybe ordering one of their "football sized" burritos gave me away!  :laugh:

Julie

Personally I think I got read first.  I'm over six feet with my heels on so either I was Alison Channey http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005049/ (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005049/) or transgendered...

But no matter.  Neither of us ordered girly food maybe that did it!  Next time I'm ordering a salad with ranch dressing...  Nah, that ain't going to fly either!

-Sandy (I really did like West Wing and Finding Nemo!)

Maybe ordering the burrito and splitting it and then a salad. You can always go home and pig out. LOL
Sheila

Quote from: Sheila on February 19, 2007, 02:41:31 PM
Maybe ordering the burrito and splitting it and then a salad. You can always go home and pig out. LOL
Sheila

Yeah and next time, refrain from ordering big mugs of beer and singing "I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK"

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: Kristi on February 19, 2007, 03:01:56 PM
Yeah and next time, refrain from ordering big mugs of beer and singing "I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK"

ROFLMAO!!! :D

Melissa

I don't see what the issue is here, I see a group of women having a conversation they have no business entertaining...but some entertaining conversation none-the-less!

BTW, EFB? I used to eat there several times a week when I lived in Chitown, I just love those football size burritos! It is girly food if you keep your pinkies extended.

Kelly

Uh, calories? Hello?

Bri

Quote from: Brianna on February 19, 2007, 09:44:24 PM
Uh, calories? Hello?

Bri

It's okay as long as you have Lite beer with it.

Quote from: Brianna on February 19, 2007, 09:44:24 PM
Uh, calories? Hello?

Bri

Hey, it's only a few thousand!  And if you spread it over a week it won't make you spread out.

Julie

This is what I used to look like when I ate like that.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.axint.net%2Fconniep%2Ffat.jpg&hash=44eb9a4b9d62ed2fe41d2394a6b6410157f2b964)

No, no, no, no no!

Gods.

Bri, anorexically

ROFLMFAO!

Thank you for that...BTW, did you dye your hair? There's, something, I don't no, different...can't quite put my finger on it.

That is me, actually, Kelly. No joke. It was in 2003. Man losing that weight was hard - but I needed to do it to transition.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmembers.axint.net%2Fconniep%2Ffat.jpg&hash=44eb9a4b9d62ed2fe41d2394a6b6410157f2b964)

268 pounds down to 145 pounds.

Bri

Wow, I started out at 268 too! I thought 200 was doing good, I am 6'5" though.

Gee Bri,

That is a big transformation.

I am putting on weight now I am not doing any running. I am still swimming and ridding but since I have trouble keeping my exercise at a threashold pace I am not burning fat  >:(.

Alice

Quote from: Kristi on February 19, 2007, 03:01:56 PM
Yeah and next time, refrain from ordering big mugs of beer and singing "I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK"
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

You realize, of course, I now HAVE to do that!  I can be such a brat sometimes!  I'll wait until Julie has a mouthful of food... (note to self, when doing this really stupid thing... DUCK!)

-Sandy (Don't tell Julie, ok?)

Maud, you look HORRIBLE as a boy! Eeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww. Gods. Don't show me that again.

Bri

Quote from: Brianna on February 20, 2007, 06:20:24 PM
Maud, you lookED HORRIBLE as a boy! Eeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwww. Gods. Don't show me that again. 

Bri

Never again.

I'm gonna karma smite you for freaking me out. ;)

bri

But, Maud, as a girl..   :o Prettiness.   :D

I must confess; I'm a reader. Not that I consciously look at everyone to find out who and what they are, but I'm having panic-problems, so I look at everyone independently anyway.
Thing is: When stumbling upon someone who had a sex change, I... Well, am intrigued*, want to talk, but I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, so I usually shyly smile and get out. I mean; I allways make eyecontact, so these people know I've 'seen,' but.. Well, I don't want to hurt anyone.
So if any of you got a weird stare from a shy long, red haired young man in the Netherlands: I'm sorry!

*And a bit jealous. But hey; having me made female doesn't change anything for me, so that doesn't work.

Quote from: Kassandra on February 20, 2007, 05:06:07 PM
-Sandy (Don't tell Julie, ok?)

Your secret is safe with me!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palomides.net%2Fimages%2Fsmiles%2Fmonkes.gif&hash=beb8156d2fc7f55892e2855018576110f56bef9d)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi