Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Kia Ora,

::) Before coming to terms with my "condition" I fell in love got married and "fathered" four children, then Mother Nature said "It's time"....

Now some trans-women have never been sexual with another women, some have been in relationships with women but couldn't bring themselves to "Do It"...Others like myself have had "Intimate Relationships" with other women, but the pull to be who we are eventually takes control and we finally have no option but to transition...

I now view my past relationship has a 'pseudo' lesbian one-that is, un-be-known to my ex I saw myself has a "male acting  woman" if that makes sense...

However, I also feel I've always been asexual, which does not mean that in the past I didn't participate in sexual acts, it's more so I was not driven by sex...And now fully transitioned I've fully embraced my asexuality...being truly comfortable in my own skin...

So just out of interest would I [or for that matter any other post op or post transitioned women who've "fathered" children ] be considered "Less of a women" because of our sexual past ?
[Not that will matter much to me either way-I'm content with my life as it is and fortunate enough to have a loving relationship with all of my children]

Metta Zenda :)
   

There is no less or more, there is just "is".
-M

Hi Zenda, greetings from the West Island.

Not at all. I have managed to help bring two wonderful kids into the world, and feel that given the biological limitations, it was as close as I could get to having them myself.  At the time they were born, and when they were babies I felt particularly maternal now that I look back.

I have realised that all my sexual experiences with women were really psuedo-lesbian, with me wanting to experience what they were feeling.  Actually, "fathering" children could be viewed as the ultimate lesbian fantasy, if you look at it from the perspective of being a woman yourself, as well as your partner.

I say, enjoy your kids, and have fun with the rest of your life.  I intend to. Hopefully you will get to enjoy being a Grandmother further down the track. I am looking forward to that too.

Karen

No

No way.  I have also fathered two children with whom I still have a good relationship, does that make me anyless of a woman, no it definitely does not.  You could say it makes us more of a woman as we have been able to experience maternal instincts and the joys of raising children.  Did I enjoy the sex at the time, not particularly as I was never a very sexual person however never for one second have I regretted having children.

Quote from: justmeinoz on August 29, 2011, 01:53:28 AM

I say, enjoy your kids, and have fun with the rest of your life.  I intend to. Hopefully you will get to enjoy being a Grandmother further down the track. I am looking forward to that too.

Karen

Grandmother.... one day but not just yet I'm still a young spring chicken... :D

For some of us the drive to precreate is stronger then the need to transition.

I was unable to transition until I finaly came out of denial about being sterile.

I never had a child but I did put in all the required work to have a child....so if that makes me less of a woman then so be it.

I don't like any philosophy that pretends to quantify manhood or womanhood.  It invariably descends into people using their personal standards to judge or prejudge others.  Manhood & womanhood are unquantifiable, in my opinion, except in personal, subjective, terms.

I fathered two fine children because that's what happens when you follow the role traditional culture demands of us.  I don't regret their existence for a minute.  It doesn't make me any less of a woman at all.  There is no kind of "purity" test for femininity.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

I have four children by two different women.  They were conceived in my despite attempts to be male.  I would never regret my kids.  I am glad that they are here.

Am I less a woman for being their father?   No.  No more than if I was their Mother.  I am their parent, period.

Hell no.

Just because I've fathered to children doesn't make me any less of a woman, as far as my gender identity goes.

My daughter alternates between calling me "Connie" and "dad." I will always be her father and her brother's father. I see no problem in this, nor any reason for shame. I actually like the idea of being a woman and being called dad. It's queering gender, and I'm cool with that.

Quote from: Zenda on August 29, 2011, 12:21:41 AMSo just out of interest would I [or for that matter any other post op or post transitioned women who've "fathered" children ] be considered "Less of a women" because of our sexual past ?

I'll just say I never personally had children and leave it at that.   However, my Surgeon, Dr. McGinn, "fathered" 2 lovely twins with her partner just last year, using sperm banked 10 years previously when she first transitioned.  In fact, the twins were only 2 weeks old when I had my surgery last year, yet she was there for me every single time I needed her.  She was even on the Oprah Winfrey show as "The Mom Who Fathered Her Own Children" (http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Real-Life-Modern-Family).  She is an amazing woman.

But like Emelye said, I don't think you can quantify parenthood.  You do what you think is right at the time.  There are ratbag parents of both sexes, just as there are good parents.  My father was an ogre.  It probably would have done him good to take a little estrogen.

I dont think so either.
Mom or Dad, its the quality of the parenting and the love you give them that counts.

(And yes, a new name on the forum, I messed up the old one and couldn't find a way to contact the admins)

The only things that can make people 'less than' are in their own heads.

Quote from: FairyGirl on August 29, 2011, 03:20:25 PM
I'll just say I never personally had children and leave it at that.   However, my Surgeon, Dr. McGinn, "fathered" 2 lovely twins with her partner just last year, using sperm banked 10 years previously when she first transitioned.  In fact, the twins were only 2 weeks old when I had my surgery last year, yet she was there for me every single time I needed her.  She was even on the Oprah Winfrey show as "The Mom Who Fathered Her Own Children" (http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Real-Life-Modern-Family).  She is an amazing woman.

I draw much inspiration from Dr McGinn in this regard having some sperm popsicles in the freezer and hoping for more children in the next year or two.

Currently having an 18-month old daughter, the conversation raised in this thread is very close to my heart.  A reason I did not transition earlier in life (I started and stopped hormones at 21 and at 25) was because of my desire to have children.  Now that I have a child (now 32 years old) I have found my need to transition unbearable.  Perhaps this was not the unexpected outcome, but I have been surprised by it (and my wife is another story......)

I am not only a father but the grandfather of 4 and have another grand on the way.
Does that make me any less of a women? No.
And I love and cherish all of them.

I think there's a lot more womanhood in raising children than bearing them. Most females can give birth; it takes someone special to be a mother.

Quote from: Lisbeth on August 30, 2011, 11:31:26 AM
Most females can give birth; it takes someone special to be a mother.

That was the theme of a Mother's Day sermon that inspired my son to give me my first Mother's Day present this year.

And the opposite too, lots and lots of sperm donors, 'baby-daddies' in American slang, but very few fathers.

For me, it is a big resounding no.

I feel blessed to have fathered three awesome children. If I had a chance to go back in time I would have done the same thing.

I feel no less or no more of a woman for fathering my kiddos.

that's mostly just another way of asking if transwomen are "less of a woman" having lived life as a boy, man, or whatever they may do in their life in the gender role of male. i would say definately not. it's just something different about that persons life, but it doesn't mean they are any less of who they feel themselves to be. i learn that when i stop trying to live my life to be "more of a woman," i'm much happier. i would rather be happy than pacing around trying to figure out how to be "the best woman i can be."

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on August 30, 2011, 11:38:43 AM
Most females can give birth; it takes someone special to be a mother.

That was the theme of a Mother's Day sermon that inspired my son to give me my first Mother's Day present this year.

*a warm hug to a good Mom*

Thanks, Lisbeth.

I have not seen my son in 7 years, and it kills me every day.  This is a tough road we travel!

Jenna Renee
:'(

Quote from: Jenna Renee on September 06, 2011, 05:17:46 PM
I have not seen my son in 7 years, and it kills me every day.  This is a tough road we travel!

Kia Ora JR,

::) I know of other trans-women who are in a similar position to yourself and my heart goes out to both you and them...

It truly is a tough road we travel ! And sadly for some like yourself it's even tougher...

Metta Zenda :)

Oh my! Isn't this an appropriate topic, du jour! Zenda has opened Pandora's box I fear though.

In certain circles, yes, you are less of a woman and quite blatantly, you are not a woman at all and never will be! To be sure, that is not my opinion. It is the opinion of an elitist subset of transsexuals ("Early Transitioning" transsexuals, or ET), and they fit right in there with the religious fundamentalists. Strange bed-fellows, for certain!

For them - the ETs - they cannot and never will accept nor understand how you as a Late Transitioner, or LT could marry, father children, and suddenly "presto-chango, BAMM!" become a woman!

In my humble opinion, it's actually best not to go into the question of validation of who you are at the risk of inviting these whako's to harangue you till doomsday about what they see as a bastardization of womanhood!

If you know that you are a woman, then you are! If you know that you are a man, then you are! I you have to ask......uh-ohh; you're in trouble because they're-a-comin' after ya!

Don't let others dictate who you are by their definition. They DO NOT own the definition!

The issues that keep us LTs from making the proper adjustment to our lives at an earlier age are many and varied. The fact that we were able to hold off what we didn't understand about ourselves early on is not an invalidating issue, but only a different coping mechanism that betrayed us later in life.

If you are an ET, I think it's wonderful that you were able to be complete so young. I believe you should be proud and full of honor in enjoying a more satisfied sense of self.

If you are an LT, I think you can hold your head up and accept proudly manhood, or womanhood from a slightly different perspective. All the while, enjoying (hopefully) a knowledge of experiences more from both sides of the gender binary.


Dawn

Honey how about that...

there be ALWAYS one 'top' and one 'bottom'. And as life goes... things do change. Don't we know it all :-)

I dearly love my son and so I do my ex, to have him carried and brought into this life. That, I could not, not in this life anyway, is something that made me go through quite some heavy GID sessions, I'm lots better now.

I do think, that by now, I'm some more at peace. WE JUST CAN'T HAVE IT ALL, now can we?

Oh, yes you DO look fantabulous, make this old girl plain week in the knees :-)

Axelle

Re: Are trans-women "less of a woman" if they've "fathered" a child/children ?

Are cis woman less of a woman because they can't get pregnant or don't wear make up or aren't beautiful or don't pretend they are stupid when they talk to guys ? Of course not.  so people should stop the irrational judging of themselves like there's a how-female/male-am-I scale they have to step on every day 

Many women born women feel less about themselves if they were unable to have children.

It doesn't mean they are less. I understand what you are saying but the title said 'Are trans-women less... not Is it okay to feel less... if you know what I mean.  I would never say to someone that they shouldn't feel how they feel.

Billy Polo,

* so people should stop the irrational judging of themselves... *

Honey, at least 50% of our BEING, - at least, is in fact irrational. I could write a small book just about THAT.

Next, it's those shoulds, shalls, shan'ts, shouldn'ts... and on. They're all based on some lofty ideal, yet most, if not all of us, are not ever ready for the 'lofty'.

We cry, we feel guilt, loss, emotional pain, we are actually very much more emotional beings than what most of us would LIKE to accept.

Due to this, we DO feel the lesser for it, just as any natal woman, that wants to have a baby and can not.
Why? I personally think it has to do with our DNA, and if we for some reason can not fulfil the role given to us by nature, we feel much the lesser for it.
Like a male that can not fulfil his role as a provider? One pretty sad being too.

It needs for us, to grow beyond these 'nature's basics' to feel worthy again, after our failure to reproduce, making us feel 'unworthy'.

The work-around for some more lucky MtFs is, that in fact they found a surrogate in the female they had married, I did.
Yet - it STILL remains only the second option, a substitute for the REAL thing.

It's one world of a difference to have YOUR baby in YOUR tummy, talk to it whilst it is growing securely inside your own life.
Nothing will be able to replace that, including the pain and the sweat when you gave birth to it.

Food for thought...
Axelle

I was desperate to prove to myself and the world I was a manly macho kinda guy.
So I literally tried to F*** myself into manhood.
I slept with every woman I could in a desperate attempt to be a man to the world and prove it to myself.
Didn't work. Not at all.

Sex does not make a man.

One of my cisgender friends was getting drunk with me one day and she blurted out that she would love to have a willy for a day and she would go try it out on her best friend. I was rather stunned at this statement and I was like 'you would have sex like a guy if you had a dick?'. And she looked at me like I grew a second head and then replied 'duh, yes I would. Thats what they are for'.
That exchange kinda tweeked my mellon and changed my perspective.

Even if I want to be the sperm donor, I'd still be the mother.

i'm really not worried about the ability to give birth or not in terms of my "womanhood." heck, i feel so indifferent to the male genitals between my legs, that it's just something i don't hold personal to my gender. thinking about it, i'm starting to feel like having kids is a gift i'm missing out on since i've definately lost all my fertility now, but i don't relate it to being "less of a woman."