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Church Leaders Threaten to "Remove" Anyone Who Supports SB 48

By Lucas Grindley|Posted on Advocate.com September 03, 2011 12:03:32 PM ET

http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/09/03/Church_Leaders_Threaten_to_Remove_Anyone_Who_Supports_SB_48/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AdvocatecomDailyNews+%28Advocate.com+Daily+News%29 (http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/09/03/Church_Leaders_Threaten_to_Remove_Anyone_Who_Supports_SB_48/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AdvocatecomDailyNews+%28Advocate.com+Daily+News%29)

Proponents of repealing a California law that requires schools to teach LGBT history met at church earlier this week, and kicked any opponents off the property, KTLA news reports.

Another example of the Xtain Taliban trying to control the country.  It isn't good caring Christian people doing this, it is those who wish to take over America.

Kia Ora,

::) That's not very Christian of them...Where's the love ?

Metta Zenda :)

I guess it doesn't bother me too much since I'd never go to one of their churches anyway, but them trying to claim that it isn't hate is simply a lie.

Sorry, but I saw a documentary on how the Mormons managed to get Prop.8 through in CA. I have no love of Christianity I despise their efforts to push their agenda on others, telling you god hates you but it's okay that they are cheating on their spouses, or the priest chastising gays, lesbians and transsexuals as Satan worshiping so and so's while he thinks it's okay to moleste a quior boy after mass!

The Mormons got Prop. 8 passed by Propganda and money that it got by making it's members almost bankrupt. I hope we can win this time.

Quote from: Keaira on September 03, 2011, 11:44:26 PM
Sorry, but I saw a documentary on how the Mormons managed to get Prop.8 through in CA. I have no love of Christianity I despise their efforts to push their agenda on others, telling you god hates you but it's okay that they are cheating on their spouses, or the priest chastising gays, lesbians and transsexuals as Satan worshiping so and so's while he thinks it's okay to moleste a quior boy after mass!

The Mormons got Prop. 8 passed by Propganda and money that it got by making it's members almost bankrupt. I hope we can win this time.

I hate these people call themselves Christians :(((

The IRS has rules about this sort of public stand and tax-exempt status.

Quote from: Stephe on September 04, 2011, 02:04:34 AM
I hate these people call themselves Christians :(((

Me too >:(

Quote from: Lisbeth on September 04, 2011, 03:37:39 PM
The IRS has rules about this sort of public stand and tax-exempt status.

That is an interesting point.. THAT might be a way to fight this sort of thing?

The IRS has rules about this sort of public stand and tax-exempt status.

No they don't.  They have explicit rules (often violated) about using tax-exempt monies for political campaigns, that is, electoral politics that works to elect people of one party or another to political office.  This is none of that.  This is a ballot measure, it's non-partisian, it elects no-one, and as such it's always been considered to be fair game for one and all to participate in.

The Mormons got Prop. 8 passed by Propganda and money that it got by making it's members almost bankrupt.

Almost bankrupt Mormons? Wait, you're serious?  Let me laugh harder then.  It's going to take a lot more than printing up a bunch of signs and making telephone trees to bankrupt the CoJCoLDS and/or it's followers.  A LOT more. 

And, to be sure the Mormons were heavily against it.  They raised a lot of money (because they have a lot of money) and they did great political groundwork/legwork getting things organized (because they tend to be very organized and hard working people).  So too did the Catholics, perhaps even more.  Again they raised a lot of money (because it's the richest institution on earth, that's why - they also have quite the fan club, over a billion Catholics around the world, they have access to money too) and did a lot of organizing/groundwork/legwork because they've been at it for centuries now, and the're damn good at it.  They have walked this fine line since the 1840s in New York, and when you learn it like that, you really learn it good.

But aside from the Hispanic communities and areas who were really the deciding factor in the Prop 8 vote, no doubt about it, (and who didn't need the Catholic Church to tell them they didn't like gay marriage, nope) the most solidly pro-8 vote came from the (for obvious reasons) record turn-out in African-American communities, who don't have many Mormons, or Catholics, running around in them.

So, it's totally unfair to blame this on the Mormons, or the Catholics, or both.  Or even churches in general, yeah they were in the mix - a big part of it to be sure (and why not?, they do have an interest in the issue), but just dumping the rather large victory on them isn't going to win next time either.  It needs to be seen as a whole.  There was a lot of opposition - which the anti-8 side completely ignored in their rush to the victory party - and yeah, some of it was religious in nature, but there are still serious cultural problems with Gay Marriage in some groups, and those reasons are sometimes completely divorced from religion.



THAT might be a way to fight this sort of thing?
Oh, so your lawyer is going to go up against the buildings and buildings (floor upon floor upon floor, really) of lawyers that the CoJCoLDS has?  Or up against the Catholic Church, that which preserved The Law for all those centuries and still teaches every priest Cannon Law?  You're going up against not just buildings full of lawyers, and the fact that every damn priest is trained in the law to a degree, but you're going to toss in Georgetown, Loyola, and Notre Dame (and many others) law schools into the fight against you too.  And if they know one thing, its' that they can flat-out outlast you.  All they have to do is keep it going, you'll die sooner or later.  So, its' proven to be pretty hard to go up against these Church things, particularly the Catholic one.  But it seems to me, lots of people - up to and including the Federal Government - has gone after the CoJCoLDS and got whopped by them.  So they are no easy mark either.

And my guess is that at this very time all those lawyers they are working trying to get those statues invalidated, as they (the church) are a 'person' just as much as Standard Oil is a 'person', and money is speech, and speech is free, so why can't they support specific candidates?

Quote from: tekla on September 05, 2011, 08:19:14 AM


THAT might be a way to fight this sort of thing?
Oh, so your lawyer is going to go up against the buildings and buildings (floor upon floor upon floor, really) of lawyers that the CoJCoLDS has?

Who said anything about lawyers or my lawyers? And I guess you missed the word might... Is there something in the weather making people so quick to jump on other people this weekend??

Quote from: tekla on September 05, 2011, 08:19:14 AM

Let me laugh harder then. 

Laugh all you want, I dont care. I'm married, and I dont live in California nor could you pay me enough to live there.

I was just trying to point out that making it simplistic helps no one.  On the other hand, this is the case that is going to settle the law.  No minor point.

Quote from: tekla on September 06, 2011, 06:35:34 AM
I was just trying to point out that making it simplistic helps no one.  On the other hand, this is the case that is going to settle the law.  No minor point.

What bothers me about all of this is: Why is the majority voting on the civil rights of a minority? Did they have a popular vote to desegregate? Or to change the laws about inner racial marriage? Of course not because in both cases at the time it likely would have failed. I don't get what's different about same sex marriage.

Homophobia from christian faiths continues to make the news and this will eventually be their undoing.  Being a bigot is no longer socially acceptable and homophobia is generally seen as bigotry.  You'd think the christian leaders would be seeing the light by now.  I guess not.

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 06, 2011, 11:45:43 AM
Homophobia from christian faiths continues to make the news and this will eventually be their undoing.  Being a bigot is no longer socially acceptable and homophobia is generally seen as bigotry.  You'd think the christian leaders would be seeing the light by now.  I guess not.

They don't. I'm a member/ordained Elder of a progressive Presbyterian - USA church and right now this denomination is dealing with a recent change to the rules where people in a same sex relationship can be ordained to preach. Our church was happy this passed but there is a group of big churches than are now threatening to leave the denomination over this. They claim "It's not about this issue" but they decided to leave because "The denomination is moving in a direction we don't like" and this is all that changed. And while my church is very loving and accepting of anyone, as a TG person going to larger gatherings I have felt hostility from a few of the other church leaders. I guess they missed where Jesus tells people to love each other?

But one thing too, Christianity isn't the only homophobic religion. I don't thing Muslims or Jewish faiths accept it either do they?

Many of the Jewish sects are gay friendly and there are a couple of sects in Islam who are gay friendly too. The three middle eastern religions (Judaism, Christianity,Muslim) have many sects against gays and some in favor.

There's many many religions who are indifferent....it doesn't matter in their faith walk.

Church leaders should not tell others how to think. That's each person's choice. I'm a Christian and I see no harm in teaching students about LGBBT history. I've heard the same flack when African-American studies were introduced on college campuses. Women studies faced the same scrutiny. Kicking someone out because they don't think like they do reeks of cultural Christianity, which I detest.

Quote from: gennee on September 07, 2011, 10:54:05 AM
Church leaders should not tell others how to think. That's each person's choice. I'm a Christian and I see no harm in teaching students about LGBBT history. I've heard the same flack when African-American studies were introduced on college campuses. Women studies faced the same scrutiny. Kicking someone out because they don't think like they do reeks of cultural Christianity, which I detest.

Right, this is history repeating itself. The Presbyterian Church split over women being allowed to preach, they are threatening the same thing over Gays being given this right..

I'm not all that sure why schisms are such a bad thing, otherwise you'd all be Catholic.

Quote from: tekla on September 07, 2011, 12:05:31 PM
I'm not all that sure why schisms are such a bad thing, otherwise you'd all be Catholic.

You mean Ancient Polytheistic.

Funny how the earliest religions believe in several gods, many of them female.  Then the modern religions came along and killed them, including all the female ones.  I guess as in battle, so too in religion, might makes right.

Schism has one more good point, the resulting new pieces are smaller and weaker than the parent organization, hate each other, and are still smarting badly enough that they don't trust other schismatics.  Divide and stonker!! 

Quote from: tekla on September 05, 2011, 08:19:14 AM
They have walked this fine line since the 1840s in New York, and when you learn it like that,  you really learn it good.

Ah heritage :) No way to be both proud of a people and confused by their success like being born Irish Protestant. [/ducks out of the room]

Well most of the mid-century immigrants were overwhelming catholic, yet, that didn't matter much, as signs like "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" didn't have a religious requirement.  And, in the 'melting pot' there was a lot less of the catholic vs. protestant in America and far more of an association with a 'mythical' Ireland.  It's like a lot of areas have an Indian/Pakistani section/area.  Where in the old country they were bitter enemies, over here (where we can't tell the difference anyway, and really don't care to) they have far more in common than what separated them in the past.

Quote from: Stephe on September 06, 2011, 08:46:08 AM
What bothers me about all of this is: Why is the majority voting on the civil rights of a minority? Did they have a popular vote to desegregate? Or to change the laws about inner racial marriage? Of course not because in both cases at the time it likely would have failed. I don't get what's different about same sex marriage.

Nobody's right should EVER be put up to a vote.