Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Im really thinking about it. I really don't know what to do :(
My like doctor person said i can be on anti-androgen's in about 3 weeks maybe a month so that's ok, but oestrogen may take 3 months or longer :(

he said i could wait between 3 and 6 months with my legal name change and everything and then get oestrogen  or pay for 6 counselling sessions to speed it up, but that will cost a lot like probs about £1000.
I could do the longer one but self-med at the same time and it would be cheaper :/

IT NOT FAIR !!!!!!  i don't even need counselling and the only reason i cant have it now is because i don't have some stupid deed poll to prove my name change URGH

What do you think ?

a very angry Salisha x x

I wouldn't chance it, it could make things worse for you in the long run. A big concern being your health.

Be patient.

~hugs~

I advise self-medicating only if you really know what you are doing and you have no choice.

For me it sounds like you have the change of geting into HRT while waiting a few months. I do self-medicate, but I am nearly graduated in medicine and there is zero chance I could find a doctor to help me. Things are tougher for TGs in certain countries.

If I had some doctor/therapist telling me to wait (if I understand the situation right?), I'd contemplate the same thing (and I am, although my limitations are different in nature).  Honestly though it's probably better for you to wait.  A few months is nothing compared to the payout and I'm thinking you'll do better with actual prescribed hormones rather than self-medicating.  It's your choice though.  If you do self-medicate, tell me how it goes! :)

-Annetta


Edited for language

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)


8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:

A. Advocating for or against a specific medication or combinations of medications for personal gain is strictly prohibited.
B. Discussing the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription, and self medication without a doctors care is prohibited.
C. Discussing dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.

We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.


I think you should try to be patient  :)  While you're waiting, maybe look over the Site Terms of Service and rules to live by

the best and safest way is to stick with the doctor's guidelines, there is no rush and they take it slow for a reason - if you do go it alone your really are alone -

Remember too that the real enemy here is testosterone.  Getting on an anti-androgen right away will at least stop T's negative effects on your body while you wait out the time for estrogen.  And if you're going through a regimented national health system, you don't want to jeopardize your chances of being a prime candidate for further treatment!

I know it's tough to hear this right now, but some day you will be able to look back and smile because you made it. :)  Take the several months to prepare as much as possible for the life ahead of you.

I am disappointed with the replies in this thread.

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 04, 2011, 06:53:45 PM
I am disappointed with the replies in this thread.

That's incredibly ambiguous of you.  :-\


As far as self medicating, don't do it. Hormones are ridiculous in the strength of their effect on your bodies chemistry and basic function. Furthermore they can have catastrophic side effects that require regular monitoring. For instance, Estradiol can cause blood clots, which can lead to death, a rather undesirable outcome of HRT. Oh, and you'll end up paying way way WAY to much money for them. Right now I pay a grand total of $14 for my months dose of Estradiol and Spiro. That's with insurance mind you, it would be about $40-50 without any coverage at Costco. However, I also live on the west coast. On the east coast I was paying a grand total of $8 without insurance at my local Wegmans, some how they have a special prescription deal with the pharmaceutical companies for generics. This is, of course, all inside the States. As I understand things are much less expensive over seas. A girl I knew from uni was paying $300~ month to self medicate, if that gives you any idea of the silliness.

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 04, 2011, 06:53:45 PM
I am disappointed with the replies in this thread.

Honestly?  In a sense, I am too.  I realize that there is a reason medical professions have the jobs they do, but with so many unwilling to prescribe hormones (I have to travel two hours to my doctor for six-month blood tests, and I live in a 2-million-inhabitant metropolis), it's often impractically difficult to obtain official sanction to take them.

I didn't need a doctor to tell me I was suffering from GID, and that hormones were the solution.

For many, it's more affordable to move straight to medication, as well: doctors aren't cheap.  Hormones, if you read up a little bit, aren't dangerous to self-administer, and it can only help one's case if one is later fully transitioned, seeking a prescription, such to the point where the normally requisite therapy would be unnecessary.

My advice?  If you feel you need them for your continued well-being, and no one is about to prescribe them, get them.

Quote from: Rebekah with a K-A-H on September 04, 2011, 08:04:14 PM
Honestly?  In a sense, I am too.  I realize that there is a reason medical professions have the jobs they do, but with so many unwilling to prescribe hormones (I have to travel two hours to my doctor for six-month blood tests, and I live in a 2-million-inhabitant metropolis), it's often impractically difficult to obtain official sanction to take them.

I didn't need a doctor to tell me I was suffering from GID, and that hormones were the solution.

For many, it's more affordable to move straight to medication, as well: doctors aren't cheap.  Hormones, if you read up a little bit, aren't dangerous to self-administer, and it can only help one's case if one is later fully transitioned, seeking a prescription, such to the point where the normally requisite therapy would be unnecessary.

My advice?  If you feel you need them for your continued well-being, and no one is about to prescribe them, get them.

Unless you are able to arrange regular blood work, both to check levels and LFT's, and you can read and understand the results don't do it.. You'll have no idea of your levels, and so will be inclined to go for a larger dose.. This larger dose may not be needed, but you'll only know if you can see the levels.. Theses are also the main reasons for the blood work..

Quote from: V M on September 04, 2011, 06:08:19 PM
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)


8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:

A. Advocating for or against a specific medication or combinations of medications for personal gain is strictly prohibited.
B. Discussing the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription, and self medication without a doctors care is prohibited.
C. Discussing dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.

We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision.

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I think you should try to be patient  :)  While you're waiting, maybe look over the Site Terms of Service and rules to live by

Yes we all know talking about those things is verboten. We don't need to talk about them, anyone who can punch letters into a Google search box can get all that information, it's not hard to find.

As far as it being illegal, there are a lot of things that are illegal, but that doesn't necessarily make them wrong. And there are quite a few things that are legal, but that doesn't necessarily make them right. Not everything is black and white. Laws should only be followed if it makes sense to do so. I don't feel guilty one bit for breaking bad laws.

I don't personally have anything against self medicating if you have no other choice. I don't condone it, but I think in some cases it may be necessary. If I lived in a place where I couldn't get them legally, I'd get them illegally. if I lived in a place where I couldn't find anyone to treat me, I'd treat myself. But only as a last resort.

And for the love of Bob, you can't overdo it. More is not necessarily better.... do it as safely as possible.. 

For those of you who don't like my point of view on self medicating, I'd like to point out that what I've just said doesn't violate any of the rules that VM just posted. And I don't think anyone should do it if they have access to medical professionals who are willing to treat them. But given the choice of a miserable, suicidal existence, or getting the hormones that I NEED illegally... I'd choose the latter.

Quote from: salisha on September 04, 2011, 03:46:24 PM
Im really thinking about it. I really don't know what to do :(
My like doctor person said i can be on anti-androgen's in about 3 weeks maybe a month so that's ok, but oestrogen may take 3 months or longer :(

he said i could wait between 3 and 6 months with my legal name change and everything and then get oestrogen  or pay for 6 counselling sessions to speed it up, but that will cost a lot like probs about £1000.
I could do the longer one but self-med at the same time and it would be cheaper :/

IT NOT FAIR !!!!!!  i don't even need counselling and the only reason i cant have it now is because i don't have some stupid deed poll to prove my name change URGH

What do you think ?

a very angry Salisha x x

in your case, you have a doctor willing to treat you. You might just want to start on the anti-androgens now and wait it out. Much safer that way, and cheaper if it's going to be covered by insurance...  or since you posted a monetary figure in pounds, I'm assuming you're in the UK... and all transition-related care is covered by the NHS isn't it?

I know it feels like you need hormones NOW NOW NOW, but honestly you'll get them soon enough... start the anti-androgens (which will likely make you feel a lot better right away), concentrate on other things like hair removal (if you need it) and other transition related things, and before you know it you'll have your hormones. Trust me, I felt the same way... but soon enough you'll look back and realize you've been on hormones a year, two years, five years, ten years, and that few months you had to wait for them is insignificant. A few months is NOTHING... a blink of an eye in the greater scheme of things.. If you stay busy the time will pass so fast, you'll wonder where it went.

What veronika said.

I will state again, I self-medicate because I CANT find a doctor to help me. No psychiatrist to referall me even. I found a online gender therapist, but guess what, even though she is a WPATH member, the doctors here in Brazil refuse to regonize her referall. Why? The gender therapist profession doesn't exists in Brazil.  In addition, this countries laws are so weird that even though I can't get a prescription, I can buy the hormones legally without one.

So, it is the stone age here. There are a few specialized medical services that prescribe HRT and do the follow up of patients up to GRS but for research purposes only. That means I'd have to follow their guidelines and if things wen't wrong, I'd have no reassurance.

So, self-medding is not bad for me, it is good. It is the only way, and know what, since I went full time I have not looked back.

For those of you who are self medicating, do you get your levels checked? What tests do you ask for and how much does that cost?

Thanks,
Jennifer

I am self medicating on a low dosage because where i live it is almost impossible to aquire a script for hrt without 50hs of psychotherapy and 1 year rlt- yes without hormones. It stabilised me a great deal, took the edge off my depression, something no antidepressant i have been on over the years could ever do. And it takes a great deal of pressure out of the system. So, works for me.
However, if i lived somewhere where i just have to wait 1 to three months with no more hassle and hoops to jump through, self medicating would not even cross my mind. It is imho simply not necessary.
Just my 0.02€.

Quote from: Jennifer on September 04, 2011, 10:28:29 PM
For those of you who are self medicating, do you get your levels checked? What tests do you ask for and how much does that cost?

Thanks,
Jennifer

i plan to do so this week. I'll ask for liver enzymes and t-levels. Should be covered by my insurance. Yes, thats my country. Therapeutic stone age, leading personell of nazi killing facilities teaching psychiatry and serving as expert witnesses up to the late eighties, but good coverage.

So sorry about the doctor making you wait so long.  Right now, I'm sure it must feel like a lifetime away.  Very soon after my 14th birthday, I ordered anti-androgens online and took them for about a year.  However, my parents figured out about the anti-androgens and made sure I never received any more money from them.  They took me to a few therapists and the therapists made me wait until I was 17 to start taking anti-androgens.  It truly did feel like hell on earth for those years.  Then they made me wait another year to start estrogen after that.

Since you do have a willing doctor, it seems like the best option to wait, you know?  It's nice that you are going to get what you need, but it's hard to be patient when you're so close that you can taste the delicious taste of victory!  You are done puberty, right?  I hope you are!  Because, if not, then it's truly a moral dilemma about what to do with self-medicating and puberty and stuff.  Best of luck to you.  Stay strong.

I felt relatively the same way, once. Your doctor seems to be willing to work with you, at least. Do not take this for granted (this is one of the people who may write you a letter for surgery). Show them that you take your health seriously and try to follow their advice. HRT is different for everyone, unique for each individual, and produces different results in every case.

Drugs flown in from elsewhere are not to be trusted.

edit: do they write letters for surgery in the UK?

My advice, get on the anti androgens and wait it out. If you're like me just getting on spiro (or whatever you get) made me a different person and in a GOOD way.

I too would take the AA's. These alone made a pretty significant change in my body over time (I took them for about a year before estrogen). Many doctors will want to put you on AA's first and then start estrogen later anyway.

Three months is nothing, if you have the AA's you'll be in a very good spot biologically to start estrogen I'd think. It's not worth the risk to self-medicate and then turn a potentially friendly doctor against you. Unfortunately in this world it's much harder down the road if you don't have a doctor on your side (but people do do it, I just think if you have this path you should consider working with this doctor. I would, and I did.)

I was in the same 'Versuchs-Camp' as "Versuchsanordnung" = Test setup :-)

1 YEAR! of RLE before HRT, plain nuts! And NOT negotiable.

Welcome to SoC interpretations.

Guess what I did? Yes, exactly.
Eventually I did convince my the new found GP to GIVE me a prescription. Med-aid covers 1 blood test / year. That is THE best private version (I had then).

I think A LOT has to do with doctors being so afraid just to have THEIR backs covered, because of law-suits.  The patient now is second, just a willing pay object.

I asked my 'gatekeeper' and he confirmed just that, also he has no problem taking as much money as he can.
No more Hippocratic oath, be cynical and take it from where you can. Buy your own wine farm, best 4x4 ML, the list goes on, lets have some more of those 'patients'.

NO exception, and all is covered by SoC interpretation. Great!
Pay or go away.

My personal experience.

Also 'gatekeepers' (psychiatrists only!) are covered by med-aid, - councillors, gender therapists (psychologist) are not.
OK, 2 session / year.

Welcome to the world,
Axelle

As others have said self medicating is not the best solution to ones problem.  However, due to ones circumstances self medicating maybe the only solution until one can gain the appropriate medicines legally.

V M is correct in pointing out the Terms of Service (TOS), because this thread could easily violate these rules.  However Veronika is also correct in her post where she says and I quote:

Quote from: VeronikaFTHYes we all know talking about those things is verboten. We don't need to talk about them, anyone who can punch letters into a Google search box can get all that information, it's not hard to find.

As far as it being illegal, there are a lot of things that are illegal, but that doesn't necessarily make them wrong. And there are quite a few things that are legal, but that doesn't necessarily make them right. Not everything is black and white. Laws should only be followed if it makes sense to do so. I don't feel guilty one bit for breaking bad laws.

I don't personally have anything against self medicating if you have no other choice. I don't condone it, but I think in some cases it may be necessary. If I lived in a place where I couldn't get them legally, I'd get them illegally. if I lived in a place where I couldn't find anyone to treat me, I'd treat myself. But only as a last resort.

And for the love of Bob, you can't overdo it. More is not necessarily better.... do it as safely as possible.. 

For those of you who don't like my point of view on self medicating, I'd like to point out that what I've just said doesn't violate any of the rules that VM just posted. And I don't think anyone should do it if they have access to medical professionals who are willing to treat them. But given the choice of a miserable, suicidal existence, or getting the hormones that I NEED illegally... I'd choose the latter.

in your case, you have a doctor willing to treat you. You might just want to start on the anti-androgens now and wait it out. Much safer that way, and cheaper if it's going to be covered by insurance...  or since you posted a monetary figure in pounds, I'm assuming you're in the UK... and all transition-related care is covered by the NHS isn't it?

I know it feels like you need hormones NOW NOW NOW, but honestly you'll get them soon enough... start the anti-androgens (which will likely make you feel a lot better right away), concentrate on other things like hair removal (if you need it) and other transition related things, and before you know it you'll have your hormones. Trust me, I felt the same way... but soon enough you'll look back and realize you've been on hormones a year, two years, five years, ten years, and that few months you had to wait for them is insignificant. A few months is NOTHING... a blink of an eye in the greater scheme of things.. If you stay busy the time will pass so fast, you'll wonder where it went.

So the best solution is to wait it out and get the anti-androgen's in about 3 or 4 weeks as the doctor said and if further delays are encountered then find another doctor.  In the mean time find things that you can do like removal of hair or even practice makeup.  You will be suprised that if you are very busy, time flies and all of a sudden your next appointment is upon you.  I should know, I had to wait two years for my surgery, however, I was working full time and literally I did not have time to scratch myself.

Hedge your bets by making appointments with the NHS (although this way takes a lot longer) so that you can get your hormones from the NHS later on and your name will be down should you decide to go ahead with surgery.  At the same time, pursue the private route (this is often the quicker way) to obtain your hormones if you have the money to do so.  However in this day and age especially in England you will more than likely need to see 'therapists' to get them.

Salisha why not get your name changed?  It would save a lot of hassle from occurring later on and you would be able to get your hormones straight away.  I agree with you I also thought I never needed counseling and I only did it so that I could get my letters for my surgery.  I'm lucky enough that I never had to do any therapy sessions to get my hormones.  I went to a doctor and I got them straight away, but that was 23 years ago and things were different then.  I do find it strange you would have to show them a change of name to get hormones.  Is this just your local doctor requesting this or one of your psychiatrists?

Only you can decide how you go about achieving what you want, we can only offer advice and our opinions.  Take care and look after yourself and let us know what happens.

Warmest regards
Sarah B

Ordering Hormones Online does not mean it's illegal. I can find several websites that will have a licensed doctor write a prescription for you, and that's as legal as it needs to be to ship them. That doesn't mean it's safe. Being safe is a whole other story. But as for legality, it's not necessarily illegal.

Quote from: Jennifer on September 04, 2011, 10:28:29 PM
For those of you who are self medicating, do you get your levels checked? What tests do you ask for and how much does that cost?

Thanks,
Jennifer

£100 for 3 months least thats the case with me. I'm forbidden from saying alot on this matter.
I'm in the UK I started taking HRT nearly 2 years ago doctors still haven't helped me. I have no regrets about my course of action.

Following their sick excuse for care I would be dead.

Of course if your gonna self med make sure you know what a low dose is. what a high dose is. How much T your LIKLEY to have. to at least approximate how much T you have.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IA5nokOFh84/R2wl7PSgg6I/AAAAAAAAAxI/5b7_3TYlco0/s400/testosterone+fig.gif (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IA5nokOFh84/R2wl7PSgg6I/AAAAAAAAAxI/5b7_3TYlco0/s400/testosterone+fig.gif)

25ish is the peak at T levels (high) so 19 = 45 in T level approximation (moderate dose needed)

Do you have Male pattern baldness would you consider yourself hairy in compairison to your peers are you short stocky figure are you tall and broad.

If your hairy, Short, starting to go bald then your likley to have a high T level. If your hairless tall and gangly then you have Low T.

start your dose low let your liver gain a tolorence and familiarity the dose I'm on now would probably kill me if I'd jumped straight at it.

Know the side effects, And why they happen I'm lucky I'm a biologist here so I'm lucky.
If your ankles swell up your kidneys arn't clearing water properly. dangerous warning sign about hormone blockers.
If you get painful cramps in your legs you might have a minor blood clot in a small Warning sign about estrogen.
If you can check your Heart rate and blood pressure Low blood pressure and a weak slow heart is a sign of potassium poisioning. hormone blocker sign.
Spontanious lactation migranes and difficulty focusing your eyes is hyperprolactimia and your pituitary swelling up warning sign.

I disagree with sarah B it's pointless to even fight facial and body hair without your T level begin supressed. It's just not a battle that can be won. its Like fighting the tide.

Going back to the original premise...

Why is it that you can't get a name change?
I thought it was pretty easy to get one in the UK.

The hrt that I bought came from Germany as the packaging and guidance notes were all in German.  I bought them online from a company with London offices.

I would like to get on legal hormones but I am very wary of doctors.   Other things that make me uncomfortable with the so-called legitimate route are (1)There is a sense of asking for permission from authority, and as I am an anarchist that doesn't sit very well with me.   (2) I know what I am and going to a gender therapist does somewhat imply that you are not entirely sure of what you are and you what them to define you.   (3) I have never been comfortable with the fetishisation of medicine and the doctor worship that is prevalent in our community.   (4) That last point leads on to this point.   Haven't you noticed that getting the medical community involved implies as sort of parent-child relationship?    The doctors get to decide who you are and what course of medical treatment, if any, is suitable for you.  You are the child asking for help and they are cast as the wise adult who knows best.  If you don't give the textbook replies to their questions you run the risk of being labelled a fetishist.  If you decide to go along with their definition of transsexuality/->-bleeped-<- completely, then you risk being seen as being passive and having stereotypical views of women and femininity.   Another point to consider is that if you lie to them and say 'yes I am attracted to men', ' I am a woman in a man's body', and they discover your deception, you will be labelled as manipulative and deceptive and nothing that you say will be taking at face-value.

I dislike and distrust the medical profession.  I won't go to them like a little girl and ask their permission for anything: 'please sir, define me because I can't do that for myself.   And besides kind doctor sir, if I have a diagnosis from you everyone will NOW have to believe that I really am a woman because (power mad, theory-driven) doctors(Priests, Proselytisers and Dogmatists)in white coats have assessed me and found me to be a bona-fide GID sufferer.'     Do you really want to humiliate yourself like that?

Some doctors are like that (because some people are like that, and doctors are people). But some are decent and supportive and open. I've experienced both, and on the whole more of the good ones than the bad ones. I agree that it's hard to shake off the "visiting the headmaster's office" state of mind when going to a doctor (and it runs deeper the older you are, because us oldsters had it more strongly conditioned into us that specialists are minor deities), but I've found more recently that when I go in with the idea that they're interested in helping me, they much more often just do.

I'm just offering this for balance, and I include my recent experiences with gender psychiatrists and therapists in this.

Quote from: Padma on September 05, 2011, 05:17:04 PM
Some doctors are like that (because some people are like that, and doctors are people). But some are decent and supportive and open. I've experienced both, and on the whole more of the good ones than the bad ones. I agree that it's hard to shake off the "visiting the headmaster's office" state of mind when going to a doctor (and it runs deeper the older you are, because us oldsters had it more strongly conditioned into us that specialists are minor deities), but I've found more recently that when I go in with the idea that they're interested in helping me, they much more often just do.

I'm just offering this for balance, and I include my recent experiences with gender psychiatrists and therapists in this.

My doctor and my FFS (nose fem) surgeon have been great. They listen to my feedback and pretty much do what I feel is right. We explored a lot of options trying to resolve my medical issues with HRT and he was open for trying about anything. The surgeon was the same way exploring what options I have and in the end let ME decide what I wanted it to look like etc.

<rant> BUT I had to see a therapist for a letter for HRT and THAT was insulting. Like this other girl said, I know what I am, I had been livng full time for over a year and still had to go to like 4 visits over a 2 month period. When I was honest and told her on the first visit "This feels like me having to get your permission for HRT", she turned pissy and she started Exploring that this feeling of permission stems from my dead mother, who has been dead over 5 years. WTF?? Finally on the last session I refused to talk about gender and started talking about my church and my social life etc and at the end she finally said, "So I guess you would like a letter"... All it did was cost me $400 and waste 2 months of my time..</rant>

Speaking of gender therapists, psychiatrists etc.   Do you think that male therapists etc have a different view of GID than female ones?   What I mean is do men have culturally conditioned stereotypical views of what it is to be female.  E.g if you go into see them wearing a nice floral dress and noticeable but still discreet make-up, and you talk about 'always being attracted to men' and you appear rather unassertive, emotional and non-threatening to masculine authority.   Would a man be more likely to diagnose you as suffering from a GID than a woman?
  Let us say that you went to see a female therapist dressed and acting exactly as a above.  Do you think that a woman might see your nice dress not as a symbol of conventional femininity but as a reflection of your fashion sense?   As for those behaviours and attitudes listed above: unassertiveness, being 'emotional', and appearing non-threatening.  I think that a woman would not view such behaviour attitudes in a negative light.  What might well appear to a man as 'unassertiveness', could very well be seen as thoughtfulness, and consideration for others.   As for being emotional a female therapist would very likely see that as 'being in touch with your emotions' and a very good thing and a sign of intelligence and maturity.   As women are a good deal less interested in status and hierarchy, they are much more willing to tolerate awkward questions without seeing them as challenges to their authority.

If I did go and see a gender therapist then I would much prefer to see a woman as I could talk to her much more easily and fluidly than I could with a man.   

know the risks, weigh your options.

Make an informed decision.

I took a huge risk by self medicating, and I have only now just begun with an endo, or actually a biomedical HR specialist. However I told her that for me, blood clots and strokes meant nothing compared to the fact that I was going to decapitate myself with a shotgun if I didnt start immediately.

I am not telling you what to do. I am simply saying in my case, it was the only option.  Even to this day there is fear of clotting and strokes, but like I told my therapist, my doctor, and my spouse. I would rather die from a stroke or blood clot then continue living as I was. Some may say, that I could transition without hormones. Well, I sya, I am not you, and while we are very similar, and we share many of the same feelings and fears, we are not identical, and each of us has our own path to walk. Each of which begins in its own  unique way, and also ends in its own way.

Whatever you decide to do,read, inform yourself, and be prepared to deal with the consequences of your actions. Any institution that thinks they know whats best for you, even more so that you do, is guilty of extreme oppression at the most personal level.

I understand the whole idea of committment and making sure this is what you want, but for most of us, this is not anything new. This is something we have lived with and for the most part, know, most of our lives. 

Anyways, whatever you choose, dont let hrt nazis scare you off this site, or away from a dr's care.  If it really is dangerous, then they have to help you, its their oath. Also, this site can be a very helpful resource when your emotions begin to bounce....

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 05, 2011, 05:56:44 PM
Speaking of gender therapists, psychiatrists etc.   Do you think that male therapists etc have a different view of GID than female ones?   

The one I saw was a post op TS so I thought she might understand? I was wrong :P I wonder now if a cis therapist might have been a better option?

Here is information about changing your name here in Scotland.

" Change of Name

If a person wishes to be known by a different name they are entitled to change their name at any time.  They can change their forename and/or surname, add names or rearrange their existing names.  In Scotland there is no set legal procedure that they must follow in order to change a name.  They can simply start using the new name.

Transsexual people usually permanently change their name once they have reached the stage in their transition where they are living full-time as the gender which matches their gender identity (i.e. the opposite gender to that which they were labelled at birth).  This is often before they have started hormone treatment or had any surgery.

Some other transgender people who do not intend to transition might also permanently change their name, often to a gender neutral androgynous name.  Alternatively, they may use a different name just among friends – in a similar way as the many non-trans people who use a shortened version of a longer name among friends.  It is perfectly legal for any transgender person to use two different names (as long as they are not doing so to defraud anyone) and to have some documents in each name.

There are some circumstances, such as applying for a passport or getting a bank account switched into their new name, when written evidence of the change of name is likely to be required.  This evidence could take the form of a letter from a professional person (for example their doctor), a statutory declaration or a deed poll.  The easiest and cheapest method is a statutory declaration (see below for an example). A practising solicitor, notary public, or other officer of a court authorised by law to administer an oath, needs to witness them signing it.  They should also ask the solicitor or notary public to make several certified photocopies for them.  The cost should be less than ten pounds.

Example Statutory Declaration for Change of Name

I [insert full new name] formerly known as [insert full old name]
and permanently residing at  [insert full home address]
do solemnly and sincerely declare that:

1. I absolutely and entirely renounce, relinquish and abandon the use of my former name of [insert full old name] and assume, adopt and determine to take and use from the date hereof the name of [insert full new name] in substitution for my former name of [insert full old name];

2. I shall at all times hereafter in all records, deeds and other writings and in all actions and proceedings, as in all dealings and transactions and on all occasions whatsoever, use and subscribe the said name of [insert full new name] as my name in substitution for my former name of [insert full old name] so relinquished as aforesaid to the intent that I may hereafter be called, known or distinguished not by the former name of [insert full old name] but by the name of [insert full new name] only;

3. I authorise and require all persons at all times to designate, describe and address me by the name of [insert full new name];

AND I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835.

Declared at _________________ on this __ day of ______ 20____ before _________________, a solicitor/notary public/other officer of the court empowered to administer oaths.

Signed:   _______________________ [insert full new name]
(Former signature of former name: ____________________)

Signature of person administering oath: ________________________________
Name of person administering oath:____________________________________

I can't understand why folks are so impatient and willing to take unnecessary risks, that may jeopardize transition.  Why do you care about how long it takes, 1, 2, 3 , 4, 5 years.  I find it amazing that folks can be so short sighted "I want it now", "Why should I have to follow rules".  "Why should I wait", "I don't trust Dr's".  Give it a break.  HRT is only a part of transition, and some would say unnecessary.  Good things coming to those who wait, comes to mind.  One thing is for sure when it comes time for SRS/GRS the surgeon will have a whole bunch of stuff he/she expects their patients to follow and guess what folks... If you don't comply, you ain't getting the surgery.

Yes it can drive folks to distraction, but really you are talking about your future.

@Steph Because five years are five lost years.

I wanted it because I am reaching my 30's and I didn't want to do SRS after I was 40. Without any prescription help in the horizon, I began on my own. In addition, dysphoria was seriously handicapping my happiness and my development at university. I also want to graduate as a woman.

In my opinion HRT is necessary for my transition. My self-medicating is not going to stop me from getting SRS because there are ways around it and for me, specially, I will be able to prescribe myself after I graduate.

I hope this reply helps you to understand.

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 05, 2011, 05:05:44 PM
I would like to get on legal hormones but I am very wary of doctors.   Other things that make me uncomfortable with the so-called legitimate route are (1)There is a sense of asking for permission from authority, and as I am an anarchist that doesn't sit very well with me.   (2) I know what I am and going to a gender therapist does somewhat imply that you are not entirely sure of what you are and you what them to define you.   (3) I have never been comfortable with the fetishisation of medicine and the doctor worship that is prevalent in our community.   (4) That last point leads on to this point.   Haven't you noticed that getting the medical community involved implies as sort of parent-child relationship?    The doctors get to decide who you are and what course of medical treatment, if any, is suitable for you.  You are the child asking for help and they are cast as the wise adult who knows best.  If you don't give the textbook replies to their questions you run the risk of being labelled a fetishist.  If you decide to go along with their definition of transsexuality/->-bleeped-<- completely, then you risk being seen as being passive and having stereotypical views of women and femininity.   Another point to consider is that if you lie to them and say 'yes I am attracted to men', ' I am a woman in a man's body', and they discover your deception, you will be labelled as manipulative and deceptive and nothing that you say will be taking at face-value.

I dislike and distrust the medical profession.  I won't go to them like a little girl and ask their permission for anything: 'please sir, define me because I can't do that for myself.   And besides kind doctor sir, if I have a diagnosis from you everyone will NOW have to believe that I really am a woman because (power mad, theory-driven) doctors(Priests, Proselytisers and Dogmatists)in white coats have assessed me and found me to be a bona-fide GID sufferer.'     Do you really want to humiliate yourself like that?

I went the therapy route, knowing who I was going in.. But then, having grown up in a medical family and having doctor's and specialists as family friends, means that I don''t see them as some kind of demi-god.. They are simply people with a specialist education.. My therapist was more interested in making sure my life was ready for transition and that I had some support, than he was in talking about my gender issues. Sure, it came up, but it was never a major part of our conversations.. After the requisite (for here) number of sessions, he had no issue referring me on to a gynaecologist for my hormones.. All in all, took about 4 months.. No begging or grovelling required at any point..  Nor do I have a real diagnosis of any kind, at least not that I've seen or been told. My referral simply stated that I was 'suitable for hormonal reassignment.'

Quote from: Steph on September 05, 2011, 07:37:59 PM
I can't understand why folks are so impatient and willing to take unnecessary risks, that may jeopardize transition.  Why do you care about how long it takes, 1, 2, 3 , 4, 5 years.

Because those years can be the difference between life and death in some cases.  They are seriously life altering periods of time.  It has nothing to do with being impatient or being short-sighted.  It *IS* about wanting the medical condition fixed and fixed NOW, not later. 

QuoteOne thing is for sure when it comes time for SRS/GRS the surgeon will have a whole bunch of stuff he/she expects their patients to follow and guess what folks... If you don't comply, you ain't getting the surgery.

Maybe things are different now than when I had surgery, but getting on the schedule for surgery was the easiest part of the process.  Fortunatley back then, they didn't require letters be from a so-called gender specialist.  If they had credentials issued by the State, their signature on a letter was enough...and as a result, one of mine actually came through a professor of mine.

QuoteYes it can drive folks to distraction, but really you are talking about your future.

And so now you hopefully can see why delays are intolerable and unnecessary.  I lost close to five years due to medical short-sightedness that existed in the so-called community when I was 17.  That was a quarter of my life at the time, pissed away trying to play by the rules.  I still find that to be unacceptable. 

As long as one is aware of the risks and knows how to get to a local lab for blood draws, then I say go for the self-medding if there are no other reasonable options...

Quote from: Bird on September 05, 2011, 08:08:30 PM
@Steph Because five years are five lost years.

I wanted it because I am reaching my 30's and I didn't want to do SRS after I was 40. Without any prescription help in the horizon, I began on my own. In addition, dysphoria was seriously handicapping my happiness and my development at university. I also want to graduate as a woman.

In my opinion HRT is necessary for my transition. My self-medicating is not going to stop me from getting SRS because there are ways around it and for me, specially, I will be able to prescribe myself after I graduate.

I hope this reply helps you to understand.

I understand completely.  I endured as all those here.  5 years isn't such a long time when compared to a life of suffering and the rest of your life in happiness.  There is so much to be done with regards to transition that there will be times when it will seem as though it's not long enough.

I didn't say that it will take five years those are just numbers I included, as everyones time is/can be different.  Mine was 3 years start to finish, not so long.

I have done without a doc for years, low doses and subtle changes. but on may last blood test they found my liver enzymes are elevated, i don't drink much - none right now. the hormones may or may not be a factor, but.... after these years I'm hoping i didn't do any damage.  :-\

I met with a therapist and told her in the first 5 minutes that I was on HRT already and that I would continues to self medicate until a doctor prescribed the HRT. She completely understood and asked me if I would see a doc about it and I said "of course". I made appt with doc and got what I wanted on the first visit.

The only thing I can say is that if you aren't ready to walk into a doctors office or a therapist's office and say, "Hi, I'm trans. Can you help me?", then maybe you aren't ready to do this. I do have to say that for me, I wanted to do 2-3 months of HRT and see how I felt before I did that. I basically wanted to use HRT as a self diagnostic tool to prove to myself what I thought I already knew. My first T test was under 20ng/ml s oI definately wasnt under the influence of T when I asked for help.

Quote from: BillieTex on September 05, 2011, 08:58:19 PM
I have done without a doc for years, low doses and subtle changes. but on may last blood test they found my liver enzymes are elevated, i don't drink much - none right now. the hormones may or may not be a factor, but.... after these years I'm hoping i didn't do any damage.  :-\

How high was your ALT? There are a few things that can cause it to rise. Monitoring prolactin is probably one of the biggest things to watch for along with ALT.

goto http://www.thelesbiantherapist.com/ (http://www.thelesbiantherapist.com/)  michelle is wonderful. Online skype sessions for 1hr intervals. She will issue your HRT letter with all compliance. Been a godsend for me.....

Hi Pebbles

You said:

Quote from: pebbles on September 05, 2011, 05:00:12 AMI disagree with sarah B it's pointless to even fight facial and body hair without your T level begin suppressed. It's just not a battle that can be won. its Like fighting the tide.

To a certain extent I would agree with you.  However, you don't have to be on hormones for electrolysis to work, because electrolysis kills the follicle, although the same follicle might need several treatments depending on the growth cycle.  So having your testosterone levels reduced probably helps to a certain extent,  for example reducing the growth rate, density, colour or even the thickness of the hair.

Existing facial hair may only be slightly affected by anti-androgen's depending on the age of the individual, genetics or ethnicity of the person.  Those taking anti-androgen's may have better results with electrolysis or laser hair removal than those who are not.  However, I have not seen any studies done in regards to this issue.  If testosterone levels are within the female range then new facial hairs will not grow, if one is still young enough.

Warm regards
Sarah B

Waiting additional YEARS on getting your homones are additional YEARS that testosterone can destroy your body. At age 15, I was androgynous with a full head of hair and no hair on my body. At age 20, I had a receding hairline, facial hair AND body hair. That's why waiting 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 years is a big deal. Sure when your 40, most of the damage that will be done is already done. But when your in your young 20s, additional years can greatly alter things.

  These are harder times.  It is hard to get consistent answers of HRT regimen from doctor to doctor as seen by the anecdotal stories I've read here on Susan's.  Many types of estrogen, T blockers, etc have their own effects and side effects.  Elective therapy and elective surgery is getting harder to get in these times in the US due to doctor shortages. 
  My story is not only GID but the Demosthenes's sword of prostate cancer.  This cancer kills only 15-17% of men who have it.  The rest die of other age related problems.  The last doctor I went to did not want to diagnose cancer of any kind until I got insurance.  I did get insurance, but in the second month, it was worthless for that and I was not notified of the change in the plan.  A waste of money for one on a fixed income. 
  I had enough and started medicating myself.  The prostate PSA went way down and my GID anxiety has dropped.  But, I've been on HRT only 9 1/2 months.  Who knows what the outcome would be on month 12 or to month 36 of this regimen in my body.  Due to my age and situation, I am willing to take the risk as others in my age group with various other ailments.   
  Wether or not your script and therapist are legit, this is dangerous monkey business, not only to your health sandpoint, but to your social status which can cause a negative feedback.  Both of those have been known to be deadly and maiming.  Be careful!
  Joelene

To be honest, I get somewhat bothered by people who have the resources and means to go about HRT the "legal" way but are too impatient

If you have the resources and means, do it the right way and don't complain... There are many who can barely make ends meet and are struggling to begin with let alone throw in regular Dr. visits and tests and such

I do not condone self medicating, but I can understand why some people do it... Just don't let impatient behavior be the reasoning behind it

Hi Steph

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with what you said

Quote from: StephI can't understand why folks are so impatient and willing to take unnecessary risks, that may jeopardize transition.

When I had my epiphany nearly 23 years ago, I was (and I'm still am) a very patient person.  I virtually knew absolutely nothing about the process.   When I got my second letter from my psychiatrist, he virtually made me wait another 9 months before I could have my surgery.  I would have had my surgery straight away and with out any counseling and I still would not have thought twice about the ramifications.  So in fact I was patient, I had to wait 2 years.

However that is irrelevant, its not about being impatient, because it is imperative that one is allowed to change unimpeded because of the ramifications resulting from the medical condition.  Yes, one does need to consult the doctors to obtain good advice about what to do, however when they place unnecessary obstacles in ones path then one is bound to find alternative means of achieving what one wants and if that means taking unnecessary risks then so be it.

Quote from: StephWhy do you care about how long it takes, 1, 2, 3 , 4, 5 years.

Just like Ann Onymous and Samantharz, I did not want to waste another moment of my life, I wanted to function just like any other female and for 30 years of not being able to do just that was long enough in that sense.  In addition I had 15 years of testosterone damaging my body.  I have seen what it has done to my brothers and thank my lucky stars that I was able to get my hormones straight away.

Quote from: StephI find it amazing that folks can be so short sighted "I want it now", "Why should I have to follow rules".  "Why should I wait", "I don't trust Dr's".  Give it a break.

Absolutely not, humans have been pushing the boundaries of knowledge since time immemorial and they have been doing it with the questions you have mentioned above.  Just because a doctor, surgeon or psychiatrist said this is what it is, does not necessarily mean what they say is correct.  If there is a significant amount of legitimate dispute among the experts within a given subject area, then it will fallacious to make an Appeal to Authority.

Quote from: StephHRT is only a part of transition, and some would say unnecessary.

HRT is absolutely necessary to treat our medical condition, teenagers need it to prevent the wrong sex characteristics from developing.  Those that are transitioning need HRT to prevent the current hormones from producing the effects that they are currently doing to the body.  For those that are post op,  hormones are essential because the human body needs hormones to be able to function properly.  Not taking hormones will result in health issues that are a lot more serious than the risks of taking the hormones one needs.  I know, because I had health issues because I was not taking my hormones.  I would seriously question somebody who said, "that HRT is unnecessary".

Quote from: StephOne thing is for sure when it comes time for SRS/GRS the surgeon will have a whole bunch of stuff he/she expects their patients to follow and guess what folks... If you don't comply, you ain't getting the surgery.

Yes  you are right, however the requirements from surgeons is very limited in a sense.  Minimum of one surgery letter in some cases, usually two, (I had 3 letters),  blood tests and may be one or two other requirements depending upon the surgeon.  These conditions are not as onerous as the requirements that are required from some doctors and therapists.  In my case it was just letters and blood work.  Which I think was reasonable.

Quote from: StephYes it can drive folks to distraction, but really you are talking about your future.

Yes you are right, it is about my future.  It's my body, my life and it was what I always wanted.  I never thought about what I was doing once, let alone twice.  As Ann said, I also find it totally abhorrent that certain members of our society or conditions can dictate on how we should live our lives.  You only have to read some of the posts in this thread to see what is happening to some of the members that run up against these restrictions.

Warmest regards
Sarah B

Quote from: Sarah B on September 06, 2011, 07:06:15 AM
Hi Steph

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with what you said

When I had my epiphany nearly 23 years ago, I was (and I'm still am) a very patient person.  I virtually knew absolutely nothing about the process.   When I got my second letter from my psychiatrist, he virtually made me wait another 9 months before I could have my surgery.  I would have had my surgery straight away and with out any counseling and I still would not have thought twice about the ramifications.  So in fact I was patient, I had to wait 2 years.

However that is irrelevant, its not about being impatient, because it is imperative that one is allowed to change unimpeded because of the ramifications resulting from the medical condition.  Yes, one does need to consult the doctors to obtain good advice about what to do, however when they place unnecessary obstacles in ones path then one is bound to find alternative means of achieving what one wants and if that means taking unnecessary risks then so be it.

Just like Ann Onymous and Samantharz, I did not want to waste another moment of my life, I wanted to function just like any other female and for 30 years of not being able to do just that was long enough in that sense.  In addition I had 15 years of testosterone damaging my body.  I have seen what it has done to my brothers and thank my lucky stars that I was able to get my hormones straight away.

Absolutely not, humans have been pushing the boundaries of knowledge since time immemorial and they have been doing it with the questions you have mentioned above.  Just because a doctor, surgeon or psychiatrist said this is what it is, does not necessarily mean what they say is correct.  If there is a significant amount of legitimate dispute among the experts within a given subject area, then it will fallacious to make an Appeal to Authority.

HRT is absolutely necessary to treat our medical condition, teenagers need it to prevent the wrong sex characteristics from developing.  Those that are transitioning need HRT to prevent the current hormones from producing the effects that they are currently doing to the body.  For those that are post op,  hormones are essential because the human body needs hormones to be able to function properly.  Not taking hormones will result in health issues that are a lot more serious than the risks of taking the hormones one needs.  I know, because I had health issues because I was not taking my hormones.  I would seriously question somebody who said, "that HRT is unnecessary".

Yes  you are right, however the requirements from surgeons is very limited in a sense.  Minimum of one surgery letter in some cases, usually two, (I had 3 letters),  blood tests and may be one or two other requirements depending upon the surgeon.  These conditions are not as onerous as the requirements that are required from some doctors and therapists.  In my case it was just letters and blood work.  Which I think was reasonable.

Yes you are right, it is about my future.  It's my body, my life and it was what I always wanted.  I never thought about what I was doing once, let alone twice.  As Ann said, I also find it totally abhorrent that certain members of our society or conditions can dictate on how we should live our lives.  You only have to read some of the posts in this thread to see what is happening to some of the members that run up against these restrictions.

Warmest regards
Sarah B

And I think we'll continue to disagree, but that's what this is all about, each of us has reasons for doing what we do, and we'll rationalize those reasons come hell or high water.

I guess it maybe comes down to "Why should I care", why should I give a damn about what others do?  Maybe we should revisit the policy here at Susan's on self medication, after all the subject comes up every time something is not happening fast enough for someone, and the arguments for and against are virtually the same every time the issue comes up.

So maybe Susan's/staff should start a new resource section dealing with self medication; how to obtain hormones, the recommended doses to get one going, tips on how to detect signs of trouble, etc, etc.  I imagine that there are quite a few folks here who are experts on this and based on their own results and experience, would be able to help those seeking self medication by providing sound tips and advice.  Hey how about a topic for the Wiki.

Ah but I jest...

It would be interesting to see whether the self-med camp tended to be comprised of the younger crowd with the 'let the doctor's timeline run its course' crowd being the late-in-life transsexuals.

Oh, and my support for those who elect to self-med comes as a long-term post-op who did not self-med only because of the difficulty in doing so 25-30 years ago.  I was scared to drive across the border to Mexico and there was no such thing as ordering over the internet since, well, the internet didn't exist.  Fortunately I did find an endo that believed in the use of 'informed consent' which helped overcome the other obstacles the 'gender specialists' kept putting forth... 

Using a doctor is usually the best way to go but there are few doctors willing to truely educate themselves on treating us so they often don't know much more than we do. Even endocrinologist don't really know that much about medical transitioning. I doubt that it's even brought up in their training. Their primary focus is anything but transsexuals. Make sure you are educated in all this because NO ONE is going to be an advocate for you except yourself.

Even so called "HRT specialist" that are supposed to be specialists in trans medicine are not always the most knowledgeable. They often get into a rythem of prescribing the same protocal for everyone and don't want to deviate from what they are used to. I find it odd that protocals from the so called "experts", can vary by as much as 100%! If you are going to go through the developement that a teenager goes through, you need the hormone levels of a teenager. I bet FTM's really get shortchanged on the amount of T that is prescribed since the docs want to give guys with low T, just enough T to keep them at the low end of NORMAL which can vary about 300%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Estradiol_during_menstrual_cycle.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Estradiol_during_menstrual_cycle.png)



Docs are not gods and their biggest value in todays information age is their access to tests and pharmacies. Do your own homework and DEMAND appropriate treatment!!!

Quote from: Steph on September 06, 2011, 09:12:30 AM
And I think we'll continue to disagree, but that's what this is all about, each of us has reasons for doing what we do, and we'll rationalize those reasons come hell or high water.

I guess it maybe comes down to "Why should I care", why should I give a damn about what others do?  Maybe we should revisit the policy here at Susan's on self medication, after all the subject comes up every time something is not happening fast enough for someone, and the arguments for and against are virtually the same every time the issue comes up.

So maybe Susan's/staff should start a new resource section dealing with self medication; how to obtain hormones, the recommended doses to get one going, tips on how to detect signs of trouble, etc, etc.  I imagine that there are quite a few folks here who are experts on this and based on their own results and experience, would be able to help those seeking self medication by providing sound tips and advice.  Hey how about a topic for the Wiki.

Ah but I jest...

I think that would be a great "harm reduction" strategy but I don't see it happening here. I think it should be openly discussed where people have a better chance of getting good information rather than being left to the wolves on the wide open net.

Please do it the right way. With a doctor, you will get blood tests, lab work, etc to make sure it is very effective dosages ...and, not to mention, safer.

People who say self medicating is fine is simply not true. I can give you names of three girls who stroked out from self medicating.

Also, it is MUCH cheaper to go through a doc. 4 dollars  per 3 month supply of AA and 4 dollars per 3 month for estrogen through the right way versus about 250 bucks for three months the wrong way.

Quote from: Annah on September 06, 2011, 09:53:34 AM
Also, it is MUCH cheaper to go through a doc. 4 dollars  per 3 month supply of AA and 4 dollars per 3 month for estrogen through the right way versus about 250 bucks for three months the wrong way.

Not entirely true. Perhaps if you have insurance. But for my doctor visit it's $450 for the visit + blood work. Whereas, as you mentioned, about $210 to order them online.

When I began transition, I did self medicate.  But eventually I found a doctor to monitor and prescript HRT.  I have been under a doctors care since then.  Many do start self medicating, but you do it at your own risk.

Advise:  Find a doctor and do it right.  Don't take your health for granted.

Quote from: Annah on September 06, 2011, 09:53:34 AM
Please do it the right way. With a doctor, you will get blood tests, lab work, etc to make sure it is very effective dosages ...and, not to mention, safer.

you presume that those who self-med are not capable of getting blood work performed...there are several places where I can order up any test I want and have a draw done close to the office.  The results would never make it into my medical file if I choose not to disclose to the doctor, which also means the insurance company never sees them  (which, as an aside, was the route I took for the keryotype and related testing). 

Not only is this an option for those without insurance, it also works for those of us who rarely GO to a doctor and thus don't hit deductibles in a given year...it has been close to a decade since I hit my deductible.  Oh, and I can still get reimbursed through a medical savings account for the lab work, which ultimately means it costs me less to get my own bloodwork than to pay the doc to have someone do the draw and saves me the inconvenience of going to their office...

Quote from: Annah on September 06, 2011, 09:53:34 AM
Please do it the right way. With a doctor, you will get blood tests, lab work, etc to make sure it is very effective dosages ...and, not to mention, safer.

People who say self medicating is fine is simply not true. I can give you names of three girls who stroked out from self medicating.

Also, it is MUCH cheaper to go through a doc. 4 dollars  per 3 month supply of AA and 4 dollars per 3 month for estrogen through the right way versus about 250 bucks for three months the wrong way.

I can also find countless links on people that have major problems from doing stupid stuff like silicone injections. If done with common sense and a lot of research, the risks are minimal. I guess a big problem with self medicating is that the average IQ is 100 which means over half of the population has a 100 IQ or less and probably doesn't have the mental horsepower to do this sort of thing. So do we make rules and place major obstacles for everyone because some people screwed it up? I don't think so.  I don't agree with the FDA or anyone else, restricting any medication unless there is a risk of a greater societal harm including the overuse of antibiotics creating super bugs or great potential for addiction or abuse.

Every situation differs. Whats easy for one may not be another. I started it by self med, however now I do have a therapist and an endo. I know what HRT did for me as far as liking me for a change. Good luck............

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 06, 2011, 10:46:42 AM
you presume that those who self-med are not capable of getting blood work performed...there are several places where I can order up any test I want and have a draw done close to the office. 

Many girls i talk to who do self medicate have told me they never bother with blood work. The person who self medicates with blood work or doctor's interpretations is much more rarer than those girls who do self medicate without the bloodwork.

One girl asked me why 200mg of estrogen was so expensive and how come they could not find spiro in 4 mg tablets.

I'm sorry. I will always be in the camp that self medicating is unhealthy. I wont change that. But I wont think less of anyone who does self medicate.

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 06, 2011, 10:46:42 AM
you presume that those who self-med are not capable of getting blood work performed...there are several places where I can order up any test I want and have a draw done close to the office.  The results would never make it into my medical file if I choose not to disclose to the doctor, which also means the insurance company never sees them 

You just hit on something key that a lot of people working for a big companies who supply their insurance don't understand. Right now I have no health insurance, I pay for everything out of pocket. Going to therapy and being diagnosed with a mental DISORDER. Anyone who has a hormone letter, also has a letter in their medical history stating they have gender identity DISORDER.

Now I don't know how many of you have tried to GET personal insurance when you have been diagnosed with a mental condition? Good luck with that... That's one of the first questions they ask. So even people that are covered now, if they lose their jobs and end up somewhere where they have to self insure, they are in for a rude surprise. Oh and try not telling them and see what they do if you have a big medical problem, they WILL find this diagnosis, say you lied and deny your claims. Even if it has nothing to do with the problem you are having.

The HRT isn't a problem it's the metal DISORDER part that is an issue.

Quote from: JessicaH on September 06, 2011, 09:47:35 AM
I think that would be a great "harm reduction" strategy but I don't see it happening here. I think it should be openly discussed where people have a better chance of getting good information rather than being left to the wolves on the wide open net.

And I have seen some REALLY bad advice about self medication in online forums. I think it's easy enough to find a reputable sites that explain basic starting doses and what to expect. I also agree you have to educate yourself. My Doc has been doing this for years but he never explained to watch my potassium intake while on spiro nor has he ever checked it. I watch what I eat so assume it's not a problem.

Basically someone who is stupid about self medication will likely be stupid about it even "supervised".

@JessicaH

Here in Brazil TG issues are not brought up during a doctors graduation and the endo's I visted had no knowledge about it at all. So no, it is not usually bought up during a endo's training. The only way it would be, is if the endo did their residency at a hospital that had GRS surgeries or had a personal interest on the issue.

Actually, I'd be very surprised if there were no knowledgeable endo's in Brazil.. All we need, as far as hormone treatment goes, is a modified form of HRT as given the menopausal women.. A gynaecologist should also be educated in the area.. But don't be fooled in to believeing that none of them have a clue..

Hormonal Reassignment is not black magic.. The only part of it that is a little on the 'magical' side is dosage, but then again, this is similar to prescribing for menopause.. As far as them saying they have no knowledge or experience, that could simply be a lack of insurance cover or even an ethical choice on behalf of the doctor..

I'm a medicine student and I know there is no education here regarding HRT in medical school from experience. The endo's don't receive training on it at their residency.

They do receive training for post-menopausal women yup, but not for HRT and transition. I'm stating a fact.

Quote from: Bird on September 06, 2011, 06:06:59 PM
I'm a medicine student and I know there is no education here regarding HRT in medical school from experience. The endo's don't receive training on it at their residency.

They do receive training for post-menopausal women yup, but not for HRT and transition. I'm stating a fact.

I'll refer back to my comment about insurance and personal choice.. It's not hard to acquire the knowledge required - most have the basics.. I know of a doctor here in Australia, who is also a family friend, I asked him about the possibility of him being my treating gyno.. He declined, it's not covered by his insurance - but he was able to tell me what sort of regimen I should expect. His only speciality is being a gyno...

Quote from: kelly_aus on September 06, 2011, 05:54:15 PM
Actually, I'd be very surprised if there were no knowledgeable endo's in Brazil.. All we need, as far as hormone treatment goes, is a modified form of HRT as given the menopausal women.. A gynaecologist should also be educated in the area.. But don't be fooled in to believeing that none of them have a clue..

Hormonal Reassignment is not black magic.. The only part of it that is a little on the 'magical' side is dosage, but then again, this is similar to prescribing for menopause.. As far as them saying they have no knowledge or experience, that could simply be a lack of insurance cover or even an ethical choice on behalf of the doctor..

I must disagree. There is a HUGE difference in the HRT needs of a perimenopausal woman and someone who wants to change a male body to a female body. If youa are only getting treated for menopause then you are really getting short changed!

Yes Kelly, it is not hard to acquire the knowledge :( This is the part that saddens me the most, I wish they went and tried to acquire the knowledge.

Wow i did not expect so many replies

I would love you comment to each of you but like there's got to be over 30 people who have commented so that might take a while.

For the time being i will get onto the anti-androgen's quick as i am still in puberty, i've only been in it for about 2 years and testosterone is doing bad stuff to me !!!!

i have booked an appointment with my GP for a blood test to give to the doctor in london and i might bring up the self-med thing to my GP and see what she thinks :/

Thanks for all the replies, it helped me a lot reading them :)

Salisha x x

Quote from: salisha on September 07, 2011, 05:55:03 PM

For the time being i will get onto the anti-androgen's quick as i am still in puberty, i've only been in it for about 2 years and testosterone is doing bad stuff to me !!!!

Yes at your age AA will do wonders :)

Quote from: Stephe on September 07, 2011, 08:39:34 PM
Yes at your age AA will do wonders :)

Yes, you may look like that you was never a boy! 
 
  Me, I finally found a transgender friendly doctor that has openings.  Appointment on Monday!  That Quick!  The other doctors I've contacted have at least a 6 month waiting list for new patients or on one medical program.  Finally!
  Joelene :)

Quote from: Joelene9 on September 07, 2011, 09:02:19 PM
  Me, I finally found a transgender friendly doctor that has openings.  Appointment on Monday! 

Congratz!

Quote from: salisha on September 04, 2011, 03:46:24 PM
Im really thinking about it. I really don't know what to do :(
My like doctor person said i can be on anti-androgen's in about 3 weeks maybe a month so that's ok, but oestrogen may take 3 months or longer :(

he said i could wait between 3 and 6 months with my legal name change and everything and then get oestrogen  or pay for 6 counselling sessions to speed it up, but that will cost a lot like probs about £1000.
I could do the longer one but self-med at the same time and it would be cheaper :/

IT NOT FAIR !!!!!!  i don't even need counselling and the only reason i cant have it now is because i don't have some stupid deed poll to prove my name change URGH

What do you think ?

a very angry Salisha x x

Interesting position your in.  I was going to say the doctor was unreasonable, but then I saw your post that your 2 years into puberty. I self medicated hormones at 16yo as it was the only real option for me at the time. I had already had a few changes due to puberty and starting early prevented me from getting more masculine and also stopped facial hair. Not sure my view is the best even though I felt the same way as you did, I was in a totally different situation, so all I can say is since you are seeing someone you should just keep pushing the issue and mention the urgency that you face with having changes happen that can not be reversed if you are not on medications sooner.

I have had to self medicate because the clinic I used to go to shut down because of lack of funding so I did not have a choice , I had a prescription from a doctor but it ran out, and the nearest alternative is about 300 miles away. I see a therapist every two weeks , and see a doctor like every 6 months or so, but I have to pay out of pocket cause I don't have insurance anymore, so I am limited on how many times I can go. I would only say do it if you had to other options.  Stay Safe.

I am only doing this because I have no other option, not because I want to go against a doctors advisement, you should listen to the doctor they know what they are doing , and as long as your are on AAs you will be fine. plus your body produces small amounts of Estrogen so it will allow that to take over some.

but in a few months you can press the doctor to get your on Estrogen.

just stay where u are n wait it out. u WILL b the girl u desire VERY SOON.

Quote from: JennaNicole on September 08, 2011, 02:26:06 AM
I had already had a few changes due to puberty and starting early prevented me from getting more masculine and also stopped facial hair.

Yes if I had got even just on AA at your age it would have made this a lot easier....