Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So, I was at a theme park the other day having an awesome day and passing all the time...

I wasn't feeling any dysphoria like I normally do, because I was too busy being terrified of heights on the rollercoasters etc (in a good way).

And then this dude walks by with his shirt in his hand instead of on him.

Whaaaaam back down to Dysphoria and Awfulness Land.

He continued to (accidentally, of course) spoil my ENTIRE day. I mean, yes, it was a hot day, but there were hundreds of people there and he was the only person who found the need to strip.

The worst thing was, I know many many cis females with smaller chests than him. His torso was serious moob land.

Can you go up to people and tell them to put a shirt on?

And am I the only one who feels like this?

That makes me dysphoric too. Last year in gym class, my class was outside running laps on the track and the Lacross team was out there without there shirts on and some of the boys in my gym class took their shirts off and I just wanted to jump off a cliff knowing that I'll probably never be able to do that. I think it should be illegal for ANYONE to take their shirts off.

Doesn't bother me. Where I am all people are allowed to be topless in public spaces.

LOL, no because at some point in my life I will probably have a hairy set of moobs. Feel free to avert your eyes if you don't like.

Quote from: Nygeel on September 04, 2011, 05:10:25 PM
Doesn't bother me. Where I am all people are allowed to be topless in public spaces.

What, even female-bodied people?

Quote from: akitokitoast on September 04, 2011, 05:13:17 PM
What, even female-bodied people?

Yep. In fact there was a trans person who was assigned female and didn't have top surgery at a march near me in June shirtless.

Well...
It would set me off some, last summer, when I'd walk down a street and see topless guys mowing their lawns....

but now that I've got my top surgery I'd probably vehemently fight for my right to take my shirt off!

Not because I want to rub it in yer faces, but because... well.. it's bloody hot sometimes!

Hope you don't mind an MTF chiming in on this one, but I've always felt it should be an all-or-none proposition.  And frankly, I'd rather see it be all instead of none, because that leaves it up to personal discretion and comfort level (I'm all for harmless freedoms being granted rather than taken away).

I would personally never go out topless.  When I still presented as male I had a bit of gynecomastia until I got super skinny.  And yet, even as a skinny boy with nothing to hide, I felt bound to keep them in my shirt.  It's been like that my entire life.  Even when I was 7 years old, I refused to go out in public without a shirt on.  See?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theforestatnight.com%2Fkidpics%2F1985%252004%2520San%2520Diego%2520Beach%2520Friends.jpg&hash=5ebae700b50646971aa7b60c19e4414c000c56bb)

(Yes, that's me in the half-shirt, playing with girls as I always did) :laugh:

When I'm out and about it doesn't bug me so much but when I am at home and my uncle is sitting out back with his shirt off it really bothers me because he does that a lot during the summer and it just reminds me that I still have to wear 3 layers (binder, shirt, overshirt) to feel remotely comfortable at all with my chest.

It actually gets me mad because it's like oh yeah, I'm dying here in the heat and you can just take your shirt off. He even tells me it's nothing to be jealous of because it isn't so great. Like yeah right for you it isn't. Try wearing all of this in the heat and then tell me that  ::)

Quote from: xAndrewx on September 04, 2011, 07:33:10 PM
When I'm out and about it doesn't bug me so much but when I am at home and my uncle is sitting out back with his shirt off it really bothers me because he does that a lot during the summer and it just reminds me that I still have to wear 3 layers (binder, shirt, overshirt) to feel remotely comfortable at all with my chest.

It actually gets me mad because it's like oh yeah, I'm dying here in the heat and you can just take your shirt off. He even tells me it's nothing to be jealous of because it isn't so great. Like yeah right for you it isn't. Try wearing all of this in the heat and then tell me that  ::)

I feel that way too. I also have to layer quite a bit in the Florida heat. I don't think it should be made illegal. It just makes me want to save up for surgery quicker and to be honest, with the scars I doubt I'd go out topless unless I had chest hair (eww) or a tattoo to cover it up.

i actually dont mind it its like a this is what you will look like in the future kind of thing.

My step dad is around the house 100% of the time shirtless. Sometimes it really gets me down, other times it gets me that much more excited for top surgery, depends on how im feeling that day.

I also think people shouldn't go around topless, regardless of gender. I can see making an exception if it's a beach or pool or something, but I think it is kinda gross to see an old fat guy going down the street on a motorcycle with no shirt on. Besides looking bad, it's asking for skin cancer in this Florida sun. Even if the person is young and fit, I still think it is a little indecent. It doesn't seem alot to me to just put a shirt on. A loose white shirt will actually be cooler than half naked anyway.

Wow, that all seems mostly repressive.

I will fight until death for your right to rotate as many degrees as it takes to look the other way :).

Not that I mean to invalidate anyone's dysphoria, but I think we all have enough experience of abrogation of rights not to want to wish that on anyone else, surely. I have no wish to live in a culture that legislates against "ugliness", for example, thanks very much.

Everyone in Cali gets a free, never-ending, pass, as we have 840 miles of coastline, and some 500 beaches.  So technically we're all on our way to the beach (or coming home from it).  Actually, 54% of American's live within 50 miles of the Coast.  So just about everyone is on their way to the beach.

I think anyone should be able to go topless anytime they feel like  :)

You know if you want to walk around naked, I could care less.  I've been around it in several situations as people on the West Coast love to get naked.  There are nude beaches, naked bike rides, people taking their clothes off and laying in the sun.  Mostly it's silly like the people at the Dead show who were naked and using Hula-Hoops, ok, that was REAL silly.  At any rate...Naked people are the LEAST threatening things in the world. 

Nude Hula Hooping sounds kinda fun  :laugh:

I like to think of it as 'Extreame H²' - all the kids are doing it now.

Well, admittedly, I would prob. wear a bikini, maybe a sarong, some kinda shoes/sandals and maybe a cute hat and I'd have to have a pink or purple Hula Hoop

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.turtleislandimports.com%2Fimages%2Fproduct%2Flarge%2FSG-300-Ppl-Dfn.jpg&hash=b6f708663e97c3066a4bcef849caac1555c3b4c9)

Where I live it isn't illegal for people assigned female at birth to go topless in public. In fact, it's not even technically illegal to be naked in public as long as there is no sexual intent to it.

That said, I don't go topless in public because I've not had top surgery yet, and because I have a lot of dysphoria around my chest. But just because I have dysphoria, does not mean that I feel entitled to go ->-bleeped-<-ting on other people's parade. That's a bit selfish, imo. I fully support everyone being able to be topless in public if they choose to, even if I don't feel comfortable going topless without surgery, or even if I find topless people triggering as far as my own dysphoria (which I'm fairly certain will go away once I've got top surgery). I fully intend on being one of those topless individuals the minute I have surgery. We need less prohibitive laws as far as body-positivity, not more prohibition. The human body isn't something to be ashamed of. I might not want to walk around naked myself, but if other people want to, more power to them.

And (all?) the MtFs say-  AMEN.

It's no issue in most of Europe... :-)

Axelle

i think this is just me but I don't think we should make anything illegal because it makes us depressed or it may kick in our dysphoria.

Before I transitioned I used any type of feelings as a catalyst to achieve what was bringing me down in terms of gender presentation.

I would love to walk around topless - and I find that it does trigger my dysphoria. For example, on my way to work today I was driving along and singing to my driving playlist (I have a REALLY long drive to work) and at a stoplight I glanced out my window and a man was walking by with a very full beard and no shirt on, both of which triggered my dysphoria. It was a very long drive this morning. Happy mood ready to take on the day destroyed, I was put into a rather unpleasant state of mind.

But that's not the point. The point is that although it does trigger my dysphoria, I would never make a law against toplessness.

Mostly because I fully intend to do exactly what that man this morning did: walk around shirtless. And with a huge beard (haha).

Quote from: Berserk on September 05, 2011, 12:36:58 PMBut just because I have dysphoria, does not mean that I feel entitled to go ->-bleeped-<-ting on other people's parade. That's a bit selfish, imo.

I kind of feel this way too. I mean, yeah, it makes me burn with envy every time I see a jock with no top on. But I'll probably still feel that way when I'm post-op just because I probably won't have washboard abs or pecs.

But I tell you, as soon as I grow some hair on my chest, my shirt's coming off. I have a small enough chest - I look like a bad case of gynecomastia. My nipples really aren't even that big, just big for a "normal" guy. And lots of guys have it. Yeah, it may be slightly unattractive, but it gets hot in the summer.

Besides, in Ontario, I'm pretty sure it's still legal for women to go topless too. At the risk of sounding like a pervert, I wish more women would feel more confident and proud of their bodies and rights. There's no reason to let men have all the glory.

Quote from: Synkronic on September 05, 2011, 01:14:12 PM
Besides, in Ontario, I'm pretty sure it's still legal for women to go topless too. At the risk of sounding like a pervert, I wish more women would feel more confident and proud of their bodies and rights. There's no reason to let men have all the glory.

Agreed, in a weird way.

Whenever I go to dorney park I feel jealus of all the other girls that have breasts. But of course they have to remain covered so I dont know what im talking about.

Anywho passing a law agianst toplessness seems a bit unethical to me.

QuoteNude Hula Hooping sounds kinda fun

I might pay to see that.


No, I have no desire to take away anybody else's right to bare ams... or chests.

Quote from: bojangles on September 05, 2011, 05:22:13 PM
No, I have no desire to take away anybody else's right to bare ams... or chests.

Or bare breasts  ;D

Quote from: Synkronic on September 05, 2011, 01:14:12 PM

Besides, in Ontario, I'm pretty sure it's still legal for women to go topless too. At the risk of sounding like a pervert, I wish more women would feel more confident and proud of their bodies and rights. There's no reason to let men have all the glory.

Yes here in Ontario it's quite legal for us women to topless in public.  I remember when the law was first passed folks expected there to be an abundance of bare breasts everywhere. However it didn't happen, leaving many men disappointed :D and grandmothers relieved :D

I go topless fairly often, but one should use discretion all the same.

Quote from: Steph on September 05, 2011, 07:56:11 PM
Yes here in Ontario it's quite legal for us women to topless in public.  I remember when the law was first passed folks expected there to be an abundance of bare breasts everywhere. However it didn't happen, leaving many men disappointed :D and grandmothers relieved :D

I go topless fairly often, but one should use discretion all the same.

I think its fine to go outside topless. I was raised to believe that men and women should be equal.

Quote from: tekla on September 05, 2011, 08:27:42 AM
  At any rate...Naked people are the LEAST threatening things in the world.

Yes, Robot Unicorn Nazis are the real threat.

Although I can relate to the jealously part, I think all people should be allowed to go top-less.  Honestly, I think public nudity should be legal for everyone, all the time.  I would prefer to remain fully-clothed, but that doesn't mean other people should have to do the same.

I think eather everyone should be able to walk around shirtless or no one should. That is only fair.

I don't mind being shirtless around people that respect me as male and treat me as such. The only real reason I would keep my shirt on is the fact that people might think I am a woman. Other than that my chest does not bother me. To me it just looks like really round pecs, the only thing wrong with them is that others may missgender me.

I'm actually rather shy about going topless  :icon_redface:  Even long before transitioning I didn't like to take my shirt off in public  :-\   
When "the guys" would choose up teams, they would often play whatever game 'Shirts VS Skins'  :P  All the other guys would just take their shirts off like no big deal, My dysphoria would kick in and I'd be scared to death

It doesn't bother me when others go topless though

Kohdy - What part of Canada are you talking about?????

I wanna move there =P

I think the laws regarding male vs. female toplessness are ridiculous. Male and female breasts are EXACTLY. THE. SAME. Just one usually has more adipose and glanduler tissue than the other. And even then it's just a "usually". For example, a woman can be an A cup and a man with gynecomastia could have a C cup. Why is it then, that the woman has to cover up even though the man has bigger boobs? It makes absolutely no sense. Breasts are not sexual organs. They are apocrine glands, similar to sweat glands. It's oppressive and unfair that women are sexualized for having breasts but men are not. I fully support topfree equality and I believe women should have the right to go topless just like men can.

Quote from: TheAetherealMeadow on September 06, 2011, 02:45:18 PM
I think the laws regarding male vs. female toplessness are ridiculous. Male and female breasts are EXACTLY. THE. SAME. Just one usually has more adipose and glanduler tissue than the other. And even then it's just a "usually". For example, a woman can be an A cup and a man with gynecomastia could have a C cup. Why is it then, that the woman has to cover up even though the man has bigger boobs? It makes absolutely no sense. Breasts are not sexual organs. They are apocrine glands, similar to sweat glands. It's oppressive and unfair that women are sexualized for having breasts but men are not. I fully support topfree equality and I believe women should have the right to go topless just like men can.

+1

I don't think we should limit someones ability to express freedoms with their body in front of others just because of other people's insecurity. Although I agree, i can actually become irritated by people who seem to be able to remove their shirt and walk around like it's nothing, but it truly is nothing. It's the human body. Clothes are socially applied, but since when are social pressures supposed to run our lives? I think through these types of things and have dialogues with myself when i have issue, because my initial reaction is usually my own problem and not someone else.

As we slide into cooler fall temperatures, I'm noticing something: my body is now claustrophobic!  WTF are these long pants?  Where are my sandals?  Long sleeves?  Noooo!!!

Considering I didn't bare an inch of flesh for 12 years of my life, I sure got used to skimpy summer clothes in a hurry.

the only time seeing a guy without a shirt on really gets to me is when its my brother.  He's like 6'2" and kinda muscle-y with a somewhat hairy chest, and Gah!  He annoys me, because hes my brother, and I can't help but think "I could have looked like that if I was born male".  Seeing other other guys shirtless doesn't really bother me. Sometimes I even enjoy the eye candy.

There are times where I forget to put on a shirt when I leave my room. I think when I have a furry chest I'll go outside without any top surgery. Eff the haters.

I don't get any dsyphoria from seeing guys topless. I think they're lucky in the summer but I don't care, I prefer having my shirt on.

If anything we need a law that allows girls to walk around topless however that's another issue all together. Actually I do believe you can walk shirtless in NYC if you're a girl..

Quote from: kyle_lawrence on September 06, 2011, 08:37:45 PM
the only time seeing a guy without a shirt on really gets to me is when its my brother.  He's like 6'2" and kinda muscle-y with a somewhat hairy chest, and Gah!  He annoys me, because hes my brother, and I can't help but think "I could have looked like that if I was born male".  Seeing other other guys shirtless doesn't really bother me. Sometimes I even enjoy the eye candy.

I can totally relate! My sister is absolutely gorgeous. She has a curvy figure, feminine and youthful facial features, etc. and it makes me feel so jealous. I can't help but look at her and think how I could have been so pretty if I was cis (or if I had started HRT before testosterone puberty). The "could have been" and "should have been" thoughts are the worst ones.

But then again, I think one advantage I've gained with having some ugly features is that it's helped me develop a great sense of style and helped me become very good at make-up. If I was as pretty as my sister, there's a chance I might not be as good with clothes, make-up and stuff as I am since I would use it less and therefore have less practice with it. I actually think "fake beauty" is the only legitimate form of beauty, since unlike natural beauty, it takes skill, talent, creativity, and effort to achieve it. It takes no effort to be born with a pretty face, therefore it shouldn't deserve as much credit as beautiful hair, clothes, nails, and make-up. Unfortunately, most of the world doesn't think the same way I do.

NO!

too many laws for too many things as it stands.

Axelle

Quote from: Kohdy on September 06, 2011, 08:44:31 PM
Ontario I believe, correct me if I'm wrong though. At least I get to visit my Canadian relatives once a year.  :P

And yeah I do have dual citizenship, but it doesn't do jack right now because 1) I legally changed my name in the US and not in Canada (not sure how to go about that) and 2) I live in the US so I have to live in a country that doesn't have shirtless gender equality.  ::)

Actually, it's not only Ontario (though I'm Ontarian). According to federal law it is not illegal to be naked/topless in Canada unless the intent is sexual (masturbating in public/making sexual advances etc).