Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I was out last Saturday night with my friends from work, and really had it hammered home to me how audacious some people can be when they encounter something that confuses them.

I avoid public toilets when I can, but it got to the point that I really needed to visit the loo or wet my pants, so I slipped discreetly into the Ladies', dashed into the nearest cubicle and had my wee.  Mid-flow, I could hear girls outside the cubicle in a heated debate about my gender:

'Oh my God, has a boy gone in there?'

'Was it a boy?'

'Could it be a boy?'

'It looked like a boy.'

'What should we do?'

'I don't know.  I just don't know.'

I could hear new people entering the loos and being sucked into the debate.  I briefly considered staying in the cubicle for the rest of the night, but it was rather unpleasant in there, so I decided to buck up and exited, crossing quietly to the sink to wash my hands.  As I turned on the tap, a girl approached me and said,

'Excuse me, are you a boy?'

I thought about launching into a monologue about my gender confusion and attempting a definition of the term 'transgender,' but the possibility of being beaten over the head with a sequined handbag seemed high, so I played it safe and said,

'No.  I'm a girl.'

'Oh,' she said.  'That's all right then.'

What I really should have said, and desperately wish I had now, was 'Oh, well fine.  Glad it's all right with you.  I didn't realise you'd been appointed Guardian of the Toilet, Defender of Gender-Specific Space and Lord of All Sex-Appropriate Restroom Facilities.'  That would've been good.  I'll use that next time.

Unbelievably, she then asked,

'But you must be a lesbian, then?'

In hindsight, what I would've been a really good thing to say, was,

'I fail to see the relevance of your question.  You do realise that lesbians urinate in the same way as heterosexual women?'

Instead I just fled.

It's ridiculous, though.

I'm meant to believe that this woman thought a young man had entered the women's toilets, walked through a crowd of women squirting hairspray and arguing about their boyfriends, used a cubicle, came back out into the crowd of women and all this time didn't realise that he wasn't in the men's room?

No.  No no no.  There's no way she could've believed that.  She immediately knew that I was in some way Queer, and she didn't like it, and decided to make a scene about it.

It just gets on my nerves that occasionally, women in public toilets don't think, 'This might be my problem.  It's something I don't quite understand - but perhaps I need to adapt my thinking slightly to cater to this new situation.'  They automatically think, 'How dare this person not conform to my idea of how things are?!  It's just not fair.  I must challenge them!'

Why can't we all just GET ALONG???! ::)

Sounds like you should start using the men's room.

Sounds like she's a skank.

if i passed that well, i'd be using the mens room.

The thing that pisses me off most about this is not only did it concern them enough to debate about it, but the woman had the gall to then say, "Oh, well you must be a lesbian, right?" What the hell? That has absolutely NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. I'm getting to the point in my transition where I might start using men's restrooms and situations like this frighten me.
I'm sorry this happened, Clive. Next time that happens let'em have it!!  ;)

Quote from: Preston on September 08, 2011, 01:25:39 AM
The thing that pisses me off most about this is not only did it concern them enough to debate about it, but the woman had the gall to then say, "Oh, well you must be a lesbian, right?" What the hell? That has absolutely NOTHING to do with ANYTHING.

Sounds like she was trying to embarrass him.

She sounds a total bitch.
And Clive I think the writing is on the wall and it says. You look like a guy, You act like a guy. You are a guy. So use the guys toilets. :laugh:

Good luck in future encounters.
Cindy

People never cease to amaze me. Seriously wonder how multiple people could think any of that was appropriate.

I was at a roadside rest stop once and I usually use the women's toilet at those because the men's can get creepy and I was by myself, so I go in and there's a line (of course, my luck) so I'm standing there trying to not stick out like a sore thumb and this old lady turns around and does a double take. I had my sun glasses on and I heard her kind of whisper to who she was with, but I couldn't hear all of it. Next thing I know, she turns around and says real loud, "Maybe you should take those sun glasses off so you can see you're in the wrong restroom". At that point EVERYONE in the line turns around. I really didn't know what to do or say because I'm just kind of once again shocked at the balls on old ladies, so I just go, "Oh" and walk out. I sucked it up and went into the men's toilet (which was beyond foul) and just ducked into a stall.

Still, I look pretty andro - I mean if I was some big dude with a beard and I walked right into the women's toilets it might be a little different for someone to pipe up and say something, but if gender might be a question it might be best to keep your mouth shut.

Yeah, seriously what everyone else said. But don't be afraid to use the mens restroom. Every guy in there is so afraid of looking gay that they don't look anyone in the face and almost never say anything.

yeah if u pass as a male in the lady loos they talk, but i think it best if u start using the mens, they dont use to loo to talk in there they just go in do their thing then out, no eye contact or any talking ..... i kinda had the same problem long time ago.

It depends a bit on where you are/live and the time of day. But even if you don't pass that well, if you just walk into the men's room and go straight for the stalls, very likely nobody will give you a second glance. If they do and ask you about it (if it's really confronting, then I guess it was the wrong place/time of day) just tell them the girls toilet has a line and you need to take a leak very bad. Even if there's a line, it'll always be a shorter wait.

I was prepared to use that excuse at an event I attented this summer. Especially if I'd run into someone that knows me as a girl, but nobody payed any attention so I didn't need to.

Another option would be (if it's not 'safe' to use the men's room) is to stand in the ladies line anyway and when someone asks, just act embarrassed and shy (which won't be too difficult since you'll probably feel like this a bit anyway) and tell them the stall in the men's room is broken (or maybe not there) and that you're pee-shy. Even if they have someone to ask, you'll be gone so they won't confront you with it.

But apart from that, I know very well what you mean. The girls at school are killing me with their giggles and voiced disbelief when I walk in. And especially (like your discussion going on) the conversations and laughs when you closed the door. As if the bloody thing is soundproof..

Thanks folks :)  Good to hear encouragement about using the Mens' - I am a bit apprehensive though, as although I do frequently get read as a boy in the Ladies' I'm still a little new to passing and self-conscious about whether I pass well enough - though a lot of what you're saying about men's room etiquette and people not really looking at you is reassuring.  My main concern would be explaining to my friends why I'm using the Mens' - I'm not really out to them yet, although I have been dropping subtle hints to one of my best mates at work and I'm sure he must sense the direction I'm heading in, lol.  Also, there'd be the risk of encountering someone who knows me as a woman - I live in a fairly small and close-knit town and as I work in one of the main social 'hot spots' I frequently see people I know on nights out - I'm not sure whether I'm quite ready to explain myself to that many people.

But it's definitely something to think about. 

You can easily explain it to friends, tell them you're sick of the girls acting all childish if you enter 'their' restroom and that you're tired of explaining. My boyfriend and I (both ftm) told our friends that before we came out to them, they understood completely.

That is my fear meeting someone in the men's that knows me that I am not completely out too.  I try to use the men's room in areas where I have little chance of meeting someone I know but you never know.

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on September 07, 2011, 06:29:11 PM
Sounds like she's a skank.

Ahahahahahahaha! Seconded. =\

Quote from: Clive on September 08, 2011, 05:01:27 PM
My main concern would be explaining to my friends why I'm using the Mens' - I'm not really out to them yet
[...]
Also, there'd be the risk of encountering someone who knows me as a woman

This is my worry at the moment. I'm not out to more than a couple of people, and I don't even bind on a daily basis... but I've already had enough toilet awkwardness that I'm considering switching to using the Men's... but then I don't want a different variety of toilet awkwardness. I don't really pass consistently as either male or female at the moment.

Just this past week I had one woman in the Women's turn to me accusingly and look me up and down then sort of narrow her eyes at me like she was just barely "allowing" me to use the Women's toilet.

Then two days later I was heading to the bathroom and some middle aged man sort of held the Men's room door for me (it's a huge heavy door that opens outwards and could have slammed on me if I was going in there, so not as weird as it sounds) and I just shook my head awkwardly then headed down the other fork in the corridor... but then I was too nervous to go in the Women's in case he was looking, so I went around another corner into a sort of broom closet full of buckets, waited a few seconds, and then left the entire building to find another toilet...... yeah, I'm ridiculous, but I don't deal well with unexpected social awkwardness and I was getting kind of panicky.

Thankfully I haven't yet had any outright comments like this thread is supposed to be about... but yeah, obviously not fitting in in the Women's anymore, but worried about being seen entering/leaving the Men's by people who know me!

" but worried about being seen entering/leaving the Men's by people who know me!

Nik,
This is the core of being yourself.
Cindy

using the mens' room should be safe for anyone, even the obviously female, and can easily be explained by urgency and a long line on the other side. no need to out yourself as transsexual even if you meet someone you know, and people who don't know you wouldn't dare ask your reasons

Quote from: Cindy James on September 15, 2011, 03:18:14 AM
" but worried about being seen entering/leaving the Men's by people who know me!

Nik,
This is the core of being yourself.
Cindy

That is true!

I'm mainly worried about people who aren't so much friends as unpleasant gossips who know me who I don't want to give any more ammunition to... e.g. a couple of years ago my ex's sister started a rumour around town that I had AIDS, based on nothing, but a lot of people believed it and possibly still some do. I can't imagine the ridiculous spin she'd put on something like seeing me going into the Men's room, even though there are valid reasons even a cis woman might do that at some point.

That said... sooner or later (hopefully sooner) I will be coming out and they'll all know anyway... so perhaps if I look at it that way it won't seem as frightening.

Quote from: Cindy James on September 08, 2011, 02:32:43 AM
She sounds a total bitch.
And Clive I think the writing is on the wall and it says. You look like a guy, You act like a guy. You are a guy. So use the guys toilets. :laugh:

Good luck in future encounters.
Cindy

^ Cindy speaks the truth.

Agreeing with Arch, too. The girl sounds like she's just one of those types.

I understand why you'd be pissed off though, I had something similar happen back in high school and it had me upset for quite a while.

Quote from: nogoodnik on September 15, 2011, 03:08:14 AM
so I went around another corner into a sort of broom closet full of buckets, waited a few seconds, and then left the entire building to find another toilet......

This sounds eerily like something I might do, LOL!  I suppose, in hindsight, you could've gone in one of the buckets, if you were desperate... ;)

Thanks for the advice, everyone - I'm sure you're right, that lass was something of a poo-head. :-X I'll definitely entertain the idea of using the Mens' far more seriously - as it is, it seems like it would be far less of a chore, a challenge and a drama :)

Yeah, besides the girls never have good contests like "who can stand the farthest away from the urinal and still hit it?"

Wow, can not believe this thread.  Good friend of mine was MTF.  She used men's rest room because she was with her wife.  Two men walked into rest room and saw her.  They walked back out embarrassed and checked restroom sign.  They walked back in and said, "Women have no respect for men." They said nothing to my friend.

She told wife she would never use men's restroom again and if she were with her she could go first and she would use ladies room after she exited.

Sad thing is my friend looks prettier than wife and yes my friend totally passes.

As many have stated if females are questioning you then use male rest room.  Walk in and do not get eye contact with guys.  Do your thing and leave.  Guys are very homophobic and will study your posture and expect you to be confident.
......

Shared this on another thread....  I live as a male but look androgynous from years of hormones... no facial hair, big breasts and androgynous dress.  I walked into a truck stop and there were two lines for rest rooms.  This fat ugly lady in rural town calls out, "Guess it is legal to use a rest room of your choosing."   She knew I was a genetic male and painfully I know it too.   My goodness I was going to use male restroom.

A male trucker saw what was happening and said there was a restroom in back.  Fat lady said is it for girls?  He said no it is for anyone.  I used restroom for truckers.

When I left I stood in front of fat lady still in line and looked at her for about half a second.  She would not give me eye contact.  I saw a pretty lady behind her and smiled at lady.  She smiled back.  I then left.  Frankly I was totally hurt by some inconsiderate fat ugly woman and yes I do not pass but I am prettier than her without facial surgery.
............

Yesterday I went to a group meeting at a large church in a large liberal city.  I was dressed female.  You can tell I am TS but I "kindof" pass.  In fact I look good but just am not pretty. 

I knocked on female rest room and no one answered.  I went in.  When I was leaving restroom I checked if I was O.K. and guess what?  I looked more female than male.  Weird for even me to say.
......................

Another story that I shared.  Went to a group meeting couple years ago dressed as a female and could not use female restroom.  A FTM that was at same meeting entered male restroom and seeing me apologized.  I said it should me me that should apologize.
.........

For me this has never been about using a female restroom or dressing in female clothing.  It is about how I feel.

.................

Wow T does great job on genetic women.  Their voices deepen and they grow beards and they loss their hair.

Use male restroom.  You are not a pervert.  Use male restroom and avoid eye contact with homophobic males in restroom. 

No one will say anything.   

:) Thanks wendy - wow, that lady at the truck stop was incredibly rude!

The rationale behind using the Ladies' was always 'I'd rather get "stick," (as they call it around here) from a lass for looking male in the Ladies' than from a man for looking too female in the Mens',' though from what everyone's said, it seems that I've been making slightly unfair assumptions about guys, lol, and that I might get far less hassle from them...  I suppose I'm anxious because I live in a rather rough area and men in general are simply physically stronger than women - I feel I could put up some semblance of defense against a women if I was physically provoked...  I might sound dramatic, lol, but physical violence isn't uncommon in my area - many of my friends have been beaten up on nights out, occasionally for no discernible reason.

I know.  It's horrific, lol.  I'm trying to move away.

I know I'd use the Mens' if I moved out of town.  Most certainly. 

Too funny.   Nicest transgender folks I have met have been FTM.  They are more sensitive than MTF.  Makes me laugh to see FTM's that use crude language and expect everyone to jump to attention because they are "male".  It is not restroom or clothing.  It is how you feel in your mind.

If you feel it is inappropriate to enter male's restroom then it is because you are sensitive to their feelings.  Males check your posture and your build.  They do not care if you are pretty.  Cut off your hair as hair has biggest impact.

Now I know why MTF's wear hats.  Wow hats forgive evils of T.  Now I need to be able to talk in higher range.  Think I pass when I try but voice does not pass.  T changes voice for FTM's.  My goodness FTM's look handsome and sound male.  I would not know unless they told me.  Feel it in your heart.  If you feel it in your heart then walk with confidence.  Males are very insecure and are good beings.  I always felt all males were females but someone had to get stuck with this assignment.  That is not how they feel but they are very venerable.   I have yet to walk into a female restroom with females inside.  I would cry if some female did to me what she did to you.  How can people be that cruel?

I hope males are not that cruel.

Quote from: Kayla on September 08, 2011, 04:43:31 AM
Yeah, seriously what everyone else said. But don't be afraid to use the mens restroom. Every guy in there is so afraid of looking gay that they don't look anyone in the face and almost never say anything.

True that. It's nearly impossible not to pass in the guy's bathroom as long as you're presenting as male - everyone minds their own business and no one talks.

I agree with most of the earlier posts.

I think that the only situation where you should worry about using the men's room is when you know that there are guys out there who have known you before your transition and who have threatened you before and you KNOW that they're around and have seen you go in alone. Like...a gang of homophobes haha but in that case you could either leave or avoid the situation altogether by using the wheelchair bathroom.

Just sayin'. ~