Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Well seriously.

Aside from you feeling anwkward with not passing, does it really matters to you and why?

I mean this with things that are really important, such as career or being harassed. I am realising I don't pass 100% and am beginning to gauge people's reactions better now that I am used to going out en femme. I know some folks notice and if you go to a workplace, it is only a matter of time before word spreads, unless if you went through surgical procedures, started HRT on puberty or have been on it for a long ass time. I think nearly all of us went full time before passing always was a reality

Most people I meet don't seen to give a rat's ass about my past if they notice and from the stuff I read here on the forums, Brazil seens to be incredibly transgender friendly. Lack of doctor support aside, things work. I spoke with my superiors about my future and they all agree I wouldn't have any problems even if I didn't pass at all, and since I have many feminine features I should be fine.

So it is like, more a matter of delivering a package that is well put together more than passing 100%. I could have some male stuff on me as long as I don't have a full beard, as a example. Then for the rest, I guess, what is important is BEING confident. Acting confident is not enough. Once those two things are meet, what is the importance of passing all the time? Ins't passing overrated? As long as I can do my job and am not harassed, I don't care about passing, it is pointless.

In a zen buddhist way of thinking, not caring about passing also helps us with passing. Today I was acessing a patient  and he was a person with a lot of anxiety, he also had come in with his nephew. It would be ideal if he was alone for this kind of thing since he had a psychiatric problem, but we were in a general practice environment at public health care so the consultation went with her in my office. Anyway, since I'm under the supervision of a male doctor and am not a graduated doctor yet, and since all nouns in portuguese have female and male counterparts, the patient's companion keep saying she wanted to ask the doctor(male) for this and that medication. I had no way to know if she was referring to me or to my superior.

This is a situation I coud have went "oh my god, I was clocked, and at work". But for once I processed a different line of thought. I thought I was a girl, and if she was referring to me she would be saying doctor(female). So I told her "You are in consultation with me, and if you want to discuss exams or medications you have to do so with me". To this, the patient told his nephew "Yes, we are not in consultation with Dr. Random Name, we are with her"

So what I mean is, I don't pass 100% by looks, absolutely not, but it seens to me that dropping this issue just lets me pass a lot more often. I could have so not passed in that situation because of something that person said, but then all of sudden I realised it was just my self-steem issue playing tricks on me.

Girls, what exactly is passing and why is it so important? Why do we care so much about it? Why can't we be proud of being TG and just BE the women we are, even if we are clocked?

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 09:53:09 AM
Aside from you feeling anwkward with not passing, does it really matters to you and why?

[snip]

Girls, what exactly is passing and why is it so important? Why do we care so much about it? Why can't we be proud of being TG and just BE the women we are, even if we are clocked?

a few things, from heavy to light...

1) some of were NEVER 'TG' and it really is frustrating to continue to see people choosing to ignore that issue, especially in a forum for "transsexual talk."

2) why restrict the discussion just to the women?  Are the men on the board left aside in this discussion?  I know you posted in the M2F section but  I am reasonably sure they are equally as concerned with the subject...

3) on a lighter side and to answer the question, one need only go back to the old Andre Agassi line of "image IS everything."  I forget which camera company he pimped in that campaign but it became his catch phrase for a period of time during the pinnacle of his career.

It is VERY important to me to pass when I socially transition. I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone on this site or anywhere else but I'm transitioning to become a woman, not a TG or anything in between.  I have a long ways yet to go on this journey and my view may change along the way but I will not accept anything short of passing 100%. I respect others views and in no way would ever impose that standard on anyone but myself. Could I be setting myself up for a hard fall? Absolutely.  If I have to work 80 hours a week for a few years to afford the means to meet my goal, so be it.

On a lighter note, I was in was walking through Wal-Mart yesterday thinking that todays's ciswomen sure are making it easier for us to blend in.!

@Ann

I thought TG means Transgender, which is a better term than transsexual since it focuses on gender, i'm sorry :)

@Jess

But aren't you a woman already?
I'm asking because the concept of transitioning to be a woman is fairly weird to me. I think all transgendered women are women, no matter how we look like. Same for the guys.

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 11:00:27 AM
@Ann

I thought TG means Transgender, which is a better term than transsexual since it focuses on gender, i'm sorry :)

I KNOW *what* TG stood for...some of us do not buy into the umbrella concept.  I also do not concur that it is a better term.  I never WAS and never WILL BE transgendered.  Many others feel the same (as evidenced by the many threads lately on the subject). 

I did not change my gender...what was changed was the sexual characteristics (and my diagnosis was also associated with a TRANSSEXUAL condition). 

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 16, 2011, 10:00:15 AM

2) why restrict the discussion just to the women?  Are the men on the board left aside in this discussion?  I know you posted in the M2F section but  I am reasonably sure they are equally as concerned with the subject...

Well, since I was invited...  :laugh:
I think the issue of passing can be different for men and women. When I was clocked, I wasn't clocked as trans but just as 'female'. I was taken for a female, albeit one in male clothes. And enough girls have masculine names that even that doesn't do much if you just look like a butch female. Whereas because of clothing differences, the world can usually see that a less passable woman is living as a woman.  Until I passed, no one knew I was even trying to.  :laugh: YMMV and all that.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm suggesting it's easier for the ladies, by any means... Just that 'passing' is a little different. I was 'she' to the world until I passed. I don't know whether I would have been okay with not passing if people still used male pronouns and the like. I think if your gender is being recognized by the public despite passability issues and you're comfortable with that, more power to you.  :)

Well to me it is very important to do whatevr u can do to pass. For me the more I see me as a woman, the more confident I feel.
For yrs I denied myself of the truth. Now I have excepted and quite ok with being TG. But passing is important to me. I remember
a doc/special I saw once, a surgeon that does FFS made a statement that if someone knocks at the door early n da morning, u put ur robe on and answer the door with no makeup on u will still be greeted as maam....Thats my goal!!

Saving my $ for whatever is needed............Christy

I completely agree with Jessica, and have those exact same thoughts when walking through Wal-Mart ;)

Christy's "robe" analogy is pretty much my own standard also when it comes to specifics, though I would add that I'd like to be able to go to a beach in a bikini or mow the lawn in a sports bra and not get clocked.

It's not passing that matters, it's BEING that matters.

BEING is the Ultimate goal.

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 09:53:09 AM


Most people I meet don't seen to give a rat's ass about my past if they notice and from the stuff I read here on the forums, Brazil seens to be incredibly transgender friendly.

Are you in Brazil? Or, are you brazilian? I'm from there, and I can assure you that that country is FAR AWAY from being trans friendly.

Backing to the topic, being passable is also about being respected. What I try to say that for the majority of humans is very hard to accept that "some women have penises, some men don't" as said by Julia Serano. Depending where you are, 1 little thing that might point you out as being TS/TG will make people calling you with wrong pronouns (specially among brazilians - even though you keep referring yourself as woman and have introduced yourself as a woman), or even changing attitude towards you.

I am a woman, and wants to be seen and treated as such. Whatever it means, since I am also a bit far from the stereotypical girly girl thing)

Flavia

While being happy with yourself is the most important thing of all, it's only natural to view passing as a major goal in transitioning. Humans are social animals, and the approval of others is a huge part of our nature. So while having personal peace is important, it would be fighting nature to not at least be the tiniest bit concerned with passing.

Quote from: Ann Onymous on September 16, 2011, 11:12:02 AM
I KNOW *what* TG stood for...some of us do not buy into the umbrella concept.  I also do not concur that it is a better term.  I never WAS and never WILL BE transgendered.  Many others feel the same (as evidenced by the many threads lately on the subject). 

I did not change my gender...what was changed was the sexual characteristics (and my diagnosis was also associated with a TRANSSEXUAL condition).

Alright! I'm sick and tired of this pointless bickering over TG vs TS. When you all get marginalized and driven back into the closet because you couldn't cooperate, don't blame me. Goodbye everyone.

Nothing like getting off topic... ::)

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 09:53:09 AM
Well seriously.

Aside from you feeling anwkward with not passing, does it really matters to you and why?

  Yes, it matters to me. I don't have any problems passing BUT if i did i just don't know how i could do this. I mean yeah at the end of the day you're yourself and feel great and that's all that matters but if you can't leave your house without being laughed and starred at then whats the point? Those ts women that don't pass what so ever and still manage to put on a smile and walk out the door everyday...those women are my hero's.

Not caring about passing would make it a hell of a lot easier on the wallet. I mean, pre-op HRT, FFS, clothes, Make-Up... all of that could be rendered obsolete. Just SRS and post-op HRT seems a lot more affordable. Heck, you could even let go of that and convince yourself that there's at least one biological girl in the world born and living with a penis, so why should you get rid of yours? But then you realise you're back to where you started, and the only thing different is that you've started referring to yourself as a "she" rather than a "he". It makes you happy but everyone around you thinks you're deluded. Doesn't sound like a nice position to be in.

@Flavia

I'm Brazilian and am transitioning at a brazilian university.

Didn't read the whole text because I'm feeling lazy, but for me, it really is important to pass. I want to be as female as possible, and part of that is to be regarded as 110% female by everyone.

But really, this is all depending on the individual. Some are quite all right with absolutely NOT passing, and if they're happy, then it's good.

Well it is important to me too, I do post pictures in the Do I pass thread after all! I just don't think it is the center of my transition. I mean, even if I didn't pass at all, I would still transition.

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 02:55:48 PM
@Flavia

I'm Brazilian and am transitioning at a brazilian university.

Honestly, Im really glad so far you had few problems transitioning at the university in Brazil. One of the reasons that made me transition late in life was exactly the trans/homophobia among my classmates and later during my residency period... Most of people I have problems nowadays regarding pronouns or being treated as male are with the brazilians abroad, which makes me avoid them as much as I can (and this is because I have been full time 2 years!)

I'm going too much off topic here, so better stop, but I really hope the reality you are facing is the normal behavior  nowadays in Terra Brasilis :)

@Missf

Sent ya a PM so we can discuss our lil land :) If you don't mind.

Arrrh....Passing Phase: That's the awkward stage of transition. Are you a him or a her?  What do I call you??? 

Sure after spending $65K on my transition and someone calls me he....I'm pissed....at myself!  That means I need to work on something harder.

Just wait to you get into the "Validation Phase".  When you get to the this stage you totally forget the awkward passing phase.

Validation for me this week, mentoring a company in Indianapolis for the week, they had no idea about my transition, the waiters in restaurants pulling out the chair for you, handed the menu first and ordering first....and totally my favorite having the door held open for you.   Gotta love the southern hospitality in Indianapolis!!!

Jamie

Quote from: Lisbeth on September 16, 2011, 01:28:22 PM
Alright! I'm sick and tired of this pointless bickering over TG vs TS. When you all get marginalized and driven back into the closet because you couldn't cooperate, don't blame me. Goodbye everyone.

here's what i did, i used the ignore feature. i know who those people are, and i think you do as well.

*anyway, if passing truly matters or not is kind of a mystery. i remember before i even started transition, i was so desperate to just be female. i set the bar really low for myself, and i said "i don't care if i live as an ugly female, i just want to be able to wake up in the morning knowing i am one." when i progressed through transition, i noticed putting more pressure on myself to be more and more attractive as i liked in myself. the thing is, there's so much prejudice, that if some people just find out you are transsexual, they will do terrible things. gwen araujo was very beautiful, and that didn't stop her from getting murdered. it makes you think.

You bet it matters!

"passing" is like the holy grail for transitioning transsexuals. Some people will want to attain it at any cost, and some people just don't give a crap. If you're one that doesn't care what people thinks and your free and proud, then just live it up. There isn't anything wrong with living like that; but for some - like me - it's a frightening prospect to live in a world where I don't/can't pass.

If you don't pass then you're not a woman. Well, you probably are but people outside of the LGBT community won't see you as such. Sad but true. That's why me and so many other transgendered women want to pass.

If you want to keep your sanity, avoid harassment, ridicule, finger pointing, humiliation etc. well passing really matters.  However if you don't mind being seen as a man in a dress then it probably doesn't.

Any TS in transition, and especially if they intend to have a successful RLT/RLE prior to surgery should be very concerned about passing.

Right at this point in time, I'm not so fussed, I'm happy living my life as me.. But I know that as time goes by passing will become more important to me.. I'm a woman, I want the world to see me as one. As that's a little impractical right, I'll do what I can and take it as it comes..

Do random strangers point and laugh? Rarely, and if I happen to notice, I just give them a polite smile and go on with my business..

Do I pass 100%? No idea but I haven't been called sir or he in almost a year except for occasional "slips" from people who knew me for years before, which I understand. I honestly think much of that is due to me getting relaxed talking with them and my voice slipping back to being more male sounding out of my laziness. Something I'm going to work on with a voice therapist.. I think they feel worse about it than I do when it happens. :P

Back on topic, I have never focused on passing, but I do want to look nice and appear to be female. I am not going to be crushed if I am read either. I also have never really experienced this "harassment, ridicule, finger pointing, humiliation" either. Maybe it's like this in other places? IDK, I travel quite a bit and still not seen this.

I honestly feel for the people who have this "Pass 100% or I'll die" mentality and I thank God I don't feel -that- strongly about it. I do make an effort to pass, not going to pretend I don't, but it's not the focus of my life. I don't agree you have to pass 100% on close inspection to be a woman, maybe some people believe you do. At my age of transition, it would be unrealistic to put that on myself as a requirement. If I pass on casual inspection, that works for me.

I still believe a LOT of passing has to do with self confidence. Some of it's appearance for sure but a lot of it comes from within. I do know my GID doesn't bother me anymore and I am VERY happy. If I required myself to pass 100% I'd still be unhappy and not sure I would ever be happy. 

Last thought on this, I know two different TS's who are OBCESSED with passing, have had 100K+ of surgery and plan more. I'm not sure they can ever get to the place I'm at right now. Their GID isn't resolvable due to this obsession and I believe they likely don't pass mainly because they don't think they do. I think people need to mix in a bit of reality when they are setting goals for themselves or they are doomed to staying depressed for the rest of their lives. I do the best I can and after that, just accept the rest.

Quote from: Stephe on September 16, 2011, 10:34:07 PM
Do I pass 100%? No idea but I haven't been called sir or he in almost a year except for occasional "slips" from people who knew me for years before, which I understand. I honestly think much of that is due to me getting relaxed talking with them and my voice slipping back to being more male sounding out of my laziness. Something I'm going to work on with a voice therapist.. I think they feel worse about it than I do when it happens. :P

Back on topic, I have never focused on passing, but I do want to look nice and appear to be female. I am not going to be crushed if I am read either. I also have never really experienced this "harassment, ridicule, finger pointing, humiliation" either. Maybe it's like this in other places? IDK, I travel quite a bit and still not seen this.

I honestly feel for the people who have this "Pass 100% or I'll die" mentality and I thank God I don't feel -that- strongly about it. I do make an effort to pass, not going to pretend I don't, but it's not the focus of my life. I don't agree you have to pass 100% on close inspection to be a woman, maybe some people believe you do. At my age of transition, it would be unrealistic to put that on myself as a requirement. If I pass on casual inspection, that works for me.

I still believe a LOT of passing has to do with self confidence. Some of it's appearance for sure but a lot of it comes from within. I do know my GID doesn't bother me anymore and I am VERY happy. If I required myself to pass 100% I'd still be unhappy and not sure I would ever be happy. 

Last thought on this, I know two different TS's who are OBCESSED with passing, have had 100K+ of surgery and plan more. I'm not sure they can ever get to the place I'm at right now. Their GID isn't resolvable due to this obsession and I believe they likely don't pass mainly because they don't think they do. I think people need to mix in a bit of reality when they are setting goals for themselves or they are doomed to staying depressed for the rest of their lives. I do the best I can and after that, just accept the rest.

But if you feel this way I'm not sure I understand the reason you had FFS if it was not to improve your appearance?  You did say way back in March 2011 that it was scheduled for the end of May.

Just sounds a little contradictory to me, but I could be wrong.

Quote from: Steph on September 16, 2011, 11:02:59 PM
But if you feel this way I'm not sure I understand the reason you had FFS if it was not to improve your appearance?  You did say way back in March 2011 that it was scheduled for the end of May.

Just sounds a little contradictory to me, but I could be wrong.

I did say "I do make an effort to pass, not going to pretend I don't" :) It ended up being postponed till late august and I'm VERY glad I did it. I do feel it made a big difference in my ability to "pass on casual inspection" plus I just look better. It was a HUGE boost to my self confidence as well.  I finally feel like my GID has been cured, I see a woman now in the mirror even without makeup where I didn't before. If I do nothing else, I am happy now where I am at with this. There was a lot more FFS surgery I could have done that I elected not too and glad I didn't. I can see small details that some MAJOR invasive surgery could fix, for me I'm not looking to erase any hint of my past.

But I guess the point I was trying to make is: do I pass 100%? I don't feel I do completely but I'm also not going to die if I am read. I see this as the difference from wanting to pass lets say 95% and needing to pass 100%. Does that make sense? I am going for further voice therapy and not sure what else I might do after that. Again I'm not going to pretend this isn't about trying to pass better, I just feel I am realistic about my ability to be 100% without question passable. And being happy that I have gotten to this point with everything.

I don't know if I previously answered this post, but yes. It matters.


Ah, why? Because I have a name badge that says Emma on it. I see a doctor that would like to see progress, I hate waking up in the morning and doing the "gender reset..." I need to feel comfortable.

That's why it matters.

Quote from: Stephe on September 16, 2011, 11:22:09 PM
I did say "I do make an effort to pass, not going to pretend I don't" :) It ended up being postponed till late august and I'm VERY glad I did it. I do feel it made a big difference in my ability to "pass on casual inspection" plus I just look better. It was a HUGE boost to my self confidence as well.  I finally feel like my GID has been cured, I see a woman now in the mirror even without makeup where I didn't before. If I do nothing else, I am happy now where I am at with this. There was a lot more FFS surgery I could have done that I elected not too and glad I didn't. I can see small details that some MAJOR invasive surgery could fix, for me I'm not looking to erase any hint of my past.

But I guess the point I was trying to make is: do I pass 100%? I don't feel I do completely but I'm also not going to die if I am read. I see this as the difference from wanting to pass lets say 95% and needing to pass 100%. Does that make sense? I am going for further voice therapy and not sure what else I might do after that. Again I'm not going to pretend this isn't about trying to pass better, I just feel I am realistic about my ability to be 100% without question passable. And being happy that I have gotten to this point with everything.

Wow if your avatar is your current one, you recovered very nicely and very quickly I might add.  I can see why you don't have to worry about passing.  If it's a pre-ffs avatar I can't see why you needed FFS you look wonderful.  I know if I had FFS and was read I would just die, especially after spending all that money to improve my looks.  Was it expensive, and where did you get it done?

Quote from: Steph on September 16, 2011, 11:32:57 PM
Wow if your avatar is your current one, you recovered very nicely and very quickly I might add.  I can see why you don't have to worry about passing.  If it's a pre-ffs avatar I can't see why you needed FFS you look wonderful.  Was it expensive, and where did you get it done?

TY for the confidence boosting compliment :) I am of the school of thought that passing is 95% from the neck up.

That picture was one week post op.  Looks even better as time passes. All I had done was he feminized my nose. We agreed to leave the bone part alone, narrowed the nostrils (tucked them in from the sides) and narrowed cartilage from mid point to tip from the front view. He gave the profile a convex curve and angled the tip up instead of drooping. That added space between my nose and lips which made my mouth more centered between my nose and chin. That helped my chin a lot and also this made my eyes seem larger. Super happy with the results considering how little was really changed.

The worst part of it was recovering from the 2 hours of GA this required. I felt dizzy and weak for a couple of weeks, feel fine now. Only was on prescription pain meds for about a day post op. MUCH less painful than say wisdom tooth removal. No nose cast or packing, just taped to hold it up until external stitches came out 5 days post op. Took about 10-14 days for irritating inside the nose stitches to dissolve and fall out. It's still healing (but no pain whatsoever) and he said won't see the -close to final results- till 3 months post op (90% swelling gone etc), a year to completely finish healing.

It was done by Dr Lincenburg at http://www.gaplasticsurg.com/ (http://www.gaplasticsurg.com/) for total cost, including surgeon, all pre-post op visits, hospital fees and anesthesia of ~$5,000 USD. He is VERY friendly/sympathetic to trans patients and the whole staff is very friendly/helpful. I don't think he does the major saw your skull open type FFS surgery but he mentioned he could do a trachael shave or shave down my brow bone, neither are pronounced on me. He initially suggested doing chin reduction, lip lift and plumping/filling but I wanted to just do the nose and glad I did. I don't doubt this other would possibly help but don't feel I really needed it.

But as you said earlier, obviously I care about how I look and wanted to improve my passability.  I probably pass 99% of the time on casual inspection now (was maybe 85-90% before?) but it's still more like 90% when interacting/chatting for a while with someone. Don't really know for sure if they read me or not because no one ever starts calling me sir or acts weird.. Occasionally someone gives me the "I admire your courage, you looks great" which is nice to hear but I could live with them keeping it to themselves :P  The comment I get much more often is "You have a great smile" :))) I only pass about 70% of the time on the phone so I feel working on my voice will improve the interacting passing from 90% back to the 99% casual figure.

But I hope I have made my point that my wanting to pass is different than needing to pass 100%? Getting from 99% to 100% takes a LOT and some people just can't pull it off. If they need to pass 100% yet can't, they will never cure their GID and be happy with themselves. I've known people like that and I feel for them. I feel lucky I can accept less than perfection :))

Quote from: Stephe on September 17, 2011, 12:19:05 AM

...  I am of the school of thought that passing is 95% from the neck up.

...

Well Stephe it would seem that passing does really matter to you.

Quote from: Steph on September 17, 2011, 12:27:05 AM
Well Stephe it would seem that passing does really matter to you.

Of course it does. I never said it doesn't matter or I make no effort to. Maybe I'm not expressing myself well.

The point I've been trying to make is I don't -need- to pass 100% of the time to be happy. I sure wouldn't mind if I did but if I don't pass from time to time, it's not going to end my world.

I read people saying things like "I will not accept anything short of passing 100%". That might not be possible for some people and to accept only perfection is going to be setting yourself up for disappointment. Yes some people can pull this off and more power to em. Nothing wrong with striving for it. For me, I am trying to be realistic and accept what I get from reasonable means. I am VERY happy with my life right now but if I required 100% stealth passability to be happy, I would still be searching for peace. I also get that some people need that to be happy, I feel I am lucky I don't.

Quote from: Bird on September 16, 2011, 09:53:09 AM
Well seriously.

Aside from you feeling anwkward with not passing, does it really matters to you and why?

I mean this with things that are really important, such as career or being harassed. I am realising I don't pass 100% and am beginning to gauge people's reactions better now that I am used to going out en femme. I know some folks notice and if you go to a workplace, it is only a matter of time before word spreads, unless if you went through surgical procedures, started HRT on puberty or have been on it for a long ass time. I think nearly all of us went full time before passing always was a reality

Most people I meet don't seen to give a rat's ass about my past if they notice and from the stuff I read here on the forums, Brazil seens to be incredibly transgender friendly. Lack of doctor support aside, things work. I spoke with my superiors about my future and they all agree I wouldn't have any problems even if I didn't pass at all, and since I have many feminine features I should be fine.

So it is like, more a matter of delivering a package that is well put together more than passing 100%. I could have some male stuff on me as long as I don't have a full beard, as a example. Then for the rest, I guess, what is important is BEING confident. Acting confident is not enough. Once those two things are meet, what is the importance of passing all the time? Ins't passing overrated? As long as I can do my job and am not harassed, I don't care about passing, it is pointless.

In a zen buddhist way of thinking, not caring about passing also helps us with passing. Today I was acessing a patient  and he was a person with a lot of anxiety, he also had come in with his nephew. It would be ideal if he was alone for this kind of thing since he had a psychiatric problem, but we were in a general practice environment at public health care so the consultation went with her in my office. Anyway, since I'm under the supervision of a male doctor and am not a graduated doctor yet, and since all nouns in portuguese have female and male counterparts, the patient's companion keep saying she wanted to ask the doctor(male) for this and that medication. I had no way to know if she was referring to me or to my superior.

This is a situation I coud have went "oh my god, I was clocked, and at work". But for once I processed a different line of thought. I thought I was a girl, and if she was referring to me she would be saying doctor(female). So I told her "You are in consultation with me, and if you want to discuss exams or medications you have to do so with me". To this, the patient told his nephew "Yes, we are not in consultation with Dr. Random Name, we are with her"

So what I mean is, I don't pass 100% by looks, absolutely not, but it seens to me that dropping this issue just lets me pass a lot more often. I could have so not passed in that situation because of something that person said, but then all of sudden I realised it was just my self-steem issue playing tricks on me.

Girls, what exactly is passing and why is it so important? Why do we care so much about it? Why can't we be proud of being TG and just BE the women we are, even if we are clocked?

Hola Bird,

::) To 'blend in' and be treated as your affirmed gender is I believe the wish of 'all' those born with a transsexual condition [I use the term transsexual condition so has not to confuse this with  the trans-androgynous and gender queer  members who for whatever reason have no wish to 'blend-in' in the same way those with-or who have suffered from the 'transsexual-condition] ...


However I think the most important thing for all trans-people is 'self acceptance'...Once one as mastered the art of 'self-acceptance' they can work on developing coping skills should they be unfortunate enough [once fully transitioned] to find their wish not coming true...

Just my thoughts ...But I could be wrong...

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Zenda on September 17, 2011, 01:25:44 AM
To 'blend in' and be treated as your affirmed gender is I believe the wish of 'all' those born with a transsexual condition

However I think the most important thing for all trans-people is 'self acceptance'...Once one as mastered the art of 'self-acceptance' they can work on developing coping skills should they be unfortunate enough [once fully transitioned] to find their wish not coming true...

Very true. I feel once you have accepted yourself, the details of passing can be worked out. Sorta like if you aren't self conscious then these details aren't as obvious. For me, I do better at dealing with things one at a time too instead of trying to shotgun the whole mess. It's less overwhelming that way. I think a lot of the depression comes from being overwhelmed, EVERYTHING can't be resolved in a day.

But I also did live through a phase of being an obvious gender queer and it is nicer to be on the other side of that phase (for me). I honestly believe though living full time as a gender queer thickened my skin about this so now IF I am read I don't panic. I was read 100% of the time and didn't die or get mauled, being read once a week or so is nothing :P   If I can go about my daily life knowing EVERYONE is going to read me as a TG 100% of the time, the idea of "only" passing 90 or 99% of the time doesn't create a "OMG what are they gonna do!!" response. I know from my past experience they aren't gonna do anything.

I'm learning a lot from your posts Stephe, thank you for sharing.

U R soo right Stephe....Self respect and confidence is huge. I go out practically every day, and some days my confidence is not where I want it to be. I know the more u feel u pass, the more confidence u have. For me anyway. A yr and half on HRT, and I still
have my times.
The great thing with me is I do like me now, when there was a time, I didnt....
Hugs to all.........Christy

You're basically saying that it doesn't matter if you have some male traits, but then you specifically point out that you could not have a beard. What makes a beard different than an extremely prominent brow bone that practically looks like an antler ( ex. - http://www.trailer-clip.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Conan-the-Barbarian.jpg (http://www.trailer-clip.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Conan-the-Barbarian.jpg) ), or a nose so huge and Rhinophymous that it'd be impossible to find on a female face (ex. - http://findreallove.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/huge-nose.jpg (http://findreallove.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/huge-nose.jpg) ), or a jawline so extremely square and rugged that Fred Flinstone would pass better? (ex. - http://www.rockaroundthecock.com/pics/perfectguyz/pgross/ross1.jpg (http://www.rockaroundthecock.com/pics/perfectguyz/pgross/ross1.jpg) )

Because I have every single one of those traits in exact form that I just provided examples to, and when you actually have those types of traits all on one extremely androgenic face, you actually learn how difficult it is to function in society as a woman when no amount of primping or posturing can make your face look like an "equal picture". Forget ever being beautiful, I can't even create an overall "together" image without looking like one of those burly drag queens; I hate that type of look. I get so much more discrimination than most here do, especially at my age where passing is the difference between having friends and a social life or not, and I'd love anyone to live a day in my shoes. Compared to such masculine facial features like mine, a beard is quite female.

It's why it's utterly stupid for anyone to stand against FFS, it's the exact same thing as shaving. If anyone is against FFS, they should prove it by not shaving; hair is "natural", after all. If someone can shave hair follicles off their face, then I can shave bone off mine! Basically, Transpeople who already pass well (and have mostly female features) swear up and down that confidence is all it takes, but I have never heard a non-passing Trans say this. Every single time, it's always a person who, by many standards, is able to convey womanly emotions with a softer, brighter face. All the ugly Trans stay couped up indoors or just don't have a social life, or are so old that it's the age where men and women start looking alike anyway, and I don't know, I'd love to meet one very young, extremely burly MTF who swears "I'm confident and that's why no one has ever discriminated against me."

Quote from: RhinoP on September 20, 2011, 11:57:59 AM

It's why it's utterly stupid for anyone to stand against FFS, it's the exact same thing as shaving. If anyone is against FFS, they should prove it by not shaving; hair is "natural", after all. If someone can shave hair follicles off their face, then I can shave bone off mine! Basically, Transpeople who already pass well (and have mostly female features) swear up and down that confidence is all it takes, but I have never heard a non-passing Trans say this.

A) At least I'm not saying FFS is bad, I had some myself.

B) As far as I know all it takes to get FFS is money, no SOC required.

c) You can have a very fem face but without self confidence you still won't pass.