Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Many people post here saying that they want to be 'treated like a woman' or 'like a female'.   What does this mean to you and aside from being addressed as 'Miss', or people referring to you as 'she' and 'her' how can you tell that you are being treated as a woman?

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 24, 2011, 06:01:13 PM
Many people post here saying that they want to be 'treated like a woman' or 'like a female'.   What does this mean to you and aside from being addressed as 'Miss', or people referring to you as 'she' and 'her' how can you tell that you are being treated as a woman?

Interesting question, not sure there's a specific answer. I notice it sometimes with men when they are nice and treat one with care and warmth and it feels good. Think in psychological terms the 'transfert' that occurs is different in some way although how I don't know. When they are sweet like that then the thought passes that I've made a mistake going with women but then you meet the next one and realise it was an anomaly. (joke)

Men sometimes smile at me in the street and women in shops call me 'love'.   

They can be nice and I've got dragged in in a major way a couple of times many years ago but came to the conclusion that it was more about my gender issues than really being into men. Only happens with straight men and it still gets me and my brain takes over and turns me into an idiot. Even also stopped counselling a couple of times because of getting major crushes and not being able to handle it. Wouldn't ever do counselling with a man again, would either hate him or the opposite.

Being seen and recognized as female. Especially being seen by other women as one of them, and not as an outsider, and having them include me in the things they do.

Honestly, it's just a given that in almost all societies around the world, girls are the ones who, 99% of the time, are treated with more delicacy, politeness, and romantic emotions/physical contact, and society obviously has different expectations of women than men, mainly in the career industry and when it comes to what is "supposed" to cause that person pain (ex. society doesn't react as badly when a man gets raped). To me, all of these things are positives that my innate personality requires; I am a delicate, health-challenged person who likes being the flower in the relationship, the person that receives cuddling, care, and a man to look after me. I did not have a loving family growing up; I have to be the dependent one, not the brawny man who has to take care of the girl that I actually want to be.

You could say "Well, a gay relationship could work like that, and you could be the bottom." - Yes, I identified as gay once, and I was most definately the bottom, but gay men are never, ever totally straight acting. The only guys I have truly ever fallen in love with are the straight men who, because they like females and female identity, are naturally more controlling, demanding, hardworking, and independant. Gay guys, no matter how straight they want to act, all end up being a bunch of flowers, and many of them are plain ugly. I don't really find anything attractive about gay culture and I've never wanted to be a part of it. I don't want to settle with being gay just so that I can find a man. I want straight men (and society) to see me as a woman. It means I definatly want to be a stealth Trans no matter what it takes.

Also, and this breaches into popularity and beauty, but upon transitioning into a woman, I also want to be very pretty, and in that respect, I want to be treated with instant respect, admiration, and sexual arousal by society at large, as I do have a that personality I believe deserves an attractive outside representation. I also want to be an actress and writer, something that I can only confidently do with a female appearance; I do not want to be a man to the media world or to play manly, burly roles that do not at all reflect my personality and soul. I simply wouldn't be able to do this without transitioning, no professional producer or casting director would hire me; many have already fired me.

Quote from: RhinoP on September 25, 2011, 06:19:39 PM
Honestly, it's just a given that in almost all societies around the world, girls are the ones who, 99% of the time, are treated with more delicacy, politeness, and romantic emotions/physical contact, and society obviously has different expectations of women than men.

With the utmost respect I would very strongly disagree there, I've lived in non western societies in the so called developing world and would say that women can be, and indeed often are, treated appallingly. I've also been married twice to women from East Africa and South East Asia and have witnessed it first hand. Men are treated with a respect that no woman can ever hope to achieve. The world is more than the US and Western Europe, not I hasten to add, that women are treated well there either.

To me it means being Left alone when I go where the other girls go, and being allowed to do what they do.Other than that, I'm good.

Quote from: Princess of Hearts on September 24, 2011, 06:01:13 PM
Many people post here saying that they want to be 'treated like a woman' or 'like a female'.   What does this mean to you and aside from being addressed as 'Miss', or people referring to you as 'she' and 'her' how can you tell that you are being treated as a woman?

An example: a friend of mine invited me to a closed Facebook group that was set up with the express intent of women having a place to vent without doing so in public which would start drama. almost everything said their is highly female centric (what jerks men can be, how hard it is to find a good bra, etc) and everyone in the group is cis but me.

Several of them know I'm trans, I'm not sure all do - but i participate fully in the threads and am loved and appreciated as "one of the girls" and the group leader is willing to toss anyone who objects to me being there.

It is MARVELOUS!

If I could get that in real time consistently - where the behavior of women in my presence is exactly what it would be if they were in the company of a ciswoman (for good or ill) then that's enough.

If guys treat me exactly like they would a ciswoman, that's gravy (as an aside, I've noticed about myself that sometimes I have a hard time letting them do so - the habits of a lifetime make it difficult for me to graciously accept a door opened for me or some such)

Quote from: RhinoP on September 25, 2011, 06:19:39 PM

You could say "Well, a gay relationship could work like that, and you could be the bottom." - Yes, I identified as gay once, and I was most definately the bottom, but gay men are never, ever totally straight acting. The only guys I have truly ever fallen in love with are the straight men who, because they like females and female identity, are naturally more controlling, demanding, hardworking, and independant. Gay guys, no matter how straight they want to act, all end up being a bunch of flowers, and many of them are plain ugly. I don't really find anything attractive about gay culture and I've never wanted to be a part of it. I don't want to settle with being gay just so that I can find a man. I want straight men (and society) to see me as a woman. It means I definatly want to be a stealth Trans no matter what it takes.

As a former gay man, no one cared when I got bashed or anything else. Kind of ironic the men who would have called me ->-bleeped-<-got and threw rocks at me are the kind of guys who would go, "She's hot" now.

I couldn't even trust other gay men. Thats how bad it has gotten, no matter how beautiful many of the men are...Many of them are self absorbed and shallow.

Passing privilege is a double-edged sword.  I don't actually like being treated "like a woman".  I like being treated like a person, and passing as a female.

(I also enjoy crossdressing, though, so on those occasions I like passing as a male.  Not as easy these days, though.)

I love it when a man opens a door for me or gets me a drink. That's things the protocol requires, a matter of being polite. But on the other hand, women starting to chat about makeup and stuff, asking me where I got things from. That's when I feel like being accepted and passing.

The downside of being treated like a woman is when cavemen whistle when you walk by. From my experience you can't have one without the other.

Quote from: Aileen on September 26, 2011, 03:02:10 AM
I love it when a man opens a door for me or gets me a drink. That's things the protocol requires, a matter of being polite. But on the other hand, women starting to chat about makeup and stuff, asking me where I got things from. That's when I feel like being accepted and passing.

The downside of being treated like a woman is when cavemen whistle when you walk by. From my experience you can't have one without the other.

Heh.  This is where dressing to impress the lesbian community nets you an advantage. ;D

While I'm generally very circumspect and sometimes even antipathetic towards those who would try to pigeonhole me into acting in accordance with stereotypical gender roles, I do derive pleasure from social scenarios in which I am treated as a female by other females.

I did observe that there's a difference between being accepted by women and being treated like one...

Quote from: Aileen on September 26, 2011, 03:16:31 AM
I did observe that there's a difference between being accepted by women and being treated like one...

Absolutely.  When I first came out to some of my friends, they were happy to talk to me about boys or makeup (neither of which I wanted to hear about, though I feigned interest because I felt validated, sort of) but when it came to using the proper pronouns and name, people struggled.

'Course, I'm in college and none of them are my friends anymore, so that's not much of an issue.

A friend of mine introduced me to her belly dancers group and I did open up to them. Acceptance was great and they did even try to see me as a girl. Finally after coming out with a female voice did cause the second step to happen, seeing me as a woman. They even insisted on celebrating that day as my birthday... (which is why they refer to me as their youngest member - even if I am not)

I can't tell why it happened that way, but I wouldn't want things to change.

Quote from: Aileen on September 26, 2011, 03:29:07 AM
A friend of mine introduced me to her belly dancers group and I did open up to them. Acceptance was great and they did even try to see me as a girl. Finally after coming out with a female voice did cause the second step to happen, seeing me as a woman. They even insisted on celebrating that day as my birthday... (which is why they refer to me as their youngest member - even if I am not)

I can't tell why it happened that way, but I wouldn't want things to change.

That's cool.  I definitely feel like women, on the whole, make a greater effort with seeing or at least treating trans women as women (though of course generalizations are naturally bound to have many exceptions, e.g. MWMF), so I'm glad you had the opportunity to open up and be accepted.

Well... the lack of figure requires padding. And the lack of tissue on belly dancers clothes requires tricks. Opening up before they discover is definitively more healthy :)

I have a very ambivalent relationship with padding.  On one hand, my boobs are tiny.  In principle, I'm okay with that, but I also feel that padding and push-ups help me stay stealth, without any questions whatsoever from others (because otherwise my shoulders don't have appropriate-sized boobs to draw attention away).

Also, it gives me something to complain about to other girls, so then we can commiserate about boobs.  Nothing like a conversation bemoaning breasts to make you feel ridiculously girly.

I don't really care for being treated "like a woman" (in terms of chivalry, etc.), but I'm sick of people expecting certain personality traits because of what's between my legs and being disappointed by the real me.  No one was particularly surprised (other than family) when I came out, and now it seems much easier for my behavior to go unnoticed and for me to be seen as "normal" by my friends.

Men stereotypically holding a door open for me annoys me.
That Sir Walter Raleigh stuff can go in the garbage as far as I'm concerned.
I think holding a door open for a group is a polite thing and anyone can do it.

On the other hand, something I do appreciate is that men don't use a death-grip business handshake on me.

Quote from: RhinoP on September 25, 2011, 06:19:39 PM
- but gay men are never, ever totally straight acting. The only guys I have truly ever fallen in love with are the straight men who, because they like females and female identity, are naturally more controlling, demanding, hardworking, and independant. Gay guys, no matter how straight they want to act, all end up being a bunch of flowers, and many of them are plain ugly. I don't really find anything attractive about gay culture and I've never wanted to be a part of it. I don't want to settle with being gay just so that I can find a man.

See, here's the thing.
This right there is a load of prejudiced nonsense.

The only thing that makes a gay man gay is that he only feels emotionally and sexually attracted to other men.
That's it.
Sexuality is not "behaviour". You can't "act" gay  or "act" straight.
Sexuality is not "personality".
Sexuality is not taste in clothes, or music, or food.

Yes, there are stereotypes.
Yes, there are "feminine" gay men out there and the hyper-feminine is the stereotype.
That doesn't mean that gay = feminine it means that these gay men are "feminine".

There are masculine gay men out there.
That doesn't mean they're "acting straight" it means that these gay men are "masculine".

Then there's just the simple fact that sexuality isn't white and black.
There aren't just "100% gay", "100% straight" and then bi guys perfectly in the middle.

The sweeping generalization that if you're attracted to men, especially if you are one, makes you a delicate flower is rubbish.
Similarly, the sweeping generalization that if you're a man who's attracted to women that you won't have any delicate parts, that you won't have any need for being taken care of, that you will always, and without fail, be "the strong one", is equally rubbishy.

Men are human beings.
Human beings have emotions, needs and frailties.
Regardless of whether or not they like to have sexual and emotional relationships with men, women, both or neither.
Don't want to deal with human weaknesses? Don't want to hold someone while they cry?
Don't want to have to ever, at all, in any way, take care of your partner?
Tough luck... even "sex toys" need maintenance.