Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Two of my closest friends are gay men. One of them is a Drag Queen whom has given me a ton of good makeup advise. Even though they both know i am on HRT and have a date set for

SRS i recieve absolutely no emotional backing from theses two. For instance i made an off handed comment the other day something to the point of "I will be glad when the laser sessions

are done i hate using beard cover and soo much foundation." To which i got the reply "All cross dressers have to deal with that, get over it". I have tried many times to explain to them the

difference but they dont seem to want to hear it. I have noticed down at the club we all goto that the gay men are little to non accepting. While lesbians and straight women applaud me for

my courage to come out and be myself. I know i dont pass very well but i am constantly evolving with only being 8 weeks full time i have a long way to go.

I guess i was just wondering if anyone else has had experience in this matter.

   Yes, Gays do seem to be less accepting of us.  I had a boyfriend that dropped me when I started HRT last year.  He says he isn't interested in girl or a guy with breasts.   I have heard of other stories of Gays wanting nothing to do with TG.   I even heard that they (not all, I am sure) won't have anything to do with bisexuals.  On the other hand I know a few that are tolerant of TGs. 

Quote from: mandyh92 on October 23, 2011, 10:33:05 PM
"I will be glad when the laser sessions are done i hate using beard cover and soo much foundation." To which i got the reply "All cross dressers have to deal with that, get over it"

I can't really comment on the gay community much, but I've seen this kind of behavior often within society in general.  There are quite a few ignorant people out there who will belittle the problems of others when they either can't relate, or have more success in that area.  They don't get it, so they think it couldn't be a real problem.  To provide a few examples, mocking/trivializing those with eating disorders, the addicted, the depressed, and the suicidal for their perceived weaknesses and failings isn't all that uncommon.

I was part of gay culture for 10 years. It's very much a hyper masculine culture, gay men wonder why a "man" would want to mutilate himself. Dressing as a female and starting hormones is fine, but getting rid of the penis bothers many of them.

I wouldn't say that gay men are less accepting, but they don't understand transsexuals.

* ... getting rid of the penis bothers many of them.

I wouldn't say that gay men are less accepting, but they don't understand transsexuals. *

My experience exactly, thank you.
Gay males are 'accepting' of sorts as I found, but at the same time are REALLY not interested in our 'stuff'.
There is ZERO attraction, and it is (male - male) attraction that keeps those folks interested in general.

Girls are more attracted to other girls gg or tg, for friendship and companionship not really sexual, at least initially? That sort of emo does not generally ring any bells with a gay males.

My 2 cents,
Axelle

PS: sex with a gay male I had ('mercy ->-bleeped-<-', well) left 'the girl inside' REALLY bored...
Good for him I knew, but boring for me (I was still pre-op then).
So don't worry, it mostly cuts both ways...

Some gay men think trans people make them look bad.  Trying to establish themselves as "normal," they do not like the often misrepresented MTF as a "gay man" represent them.

I've had good relationships with gay men, but they are not all that interested in us.  I had a gay guy I was friends with at work who I developed a crush on.  He figured it out eventually and told me, that as much as he liked me as a person, he could only see me as a girl despite my history.

Quote from: Donna Elaine on October 23, 2011, 10:48:56 PM
   Yes, Gays do seem to be less accepting of us.  I had a boyfriend that dropped me when I started HRT last year.  He says he isn't interested in girl or a guy with breasts.   I have heard of other stories of Gays wanting nothing to do with TG.   I even heard that they (not all, I am sure) won't have anything to do with bisexuals.  On the other hand I know a few that are tolerant of TGs.

Well He**, as a bisexual trans woman I'm out in the cold here, aren't I?

I have a billion gay man friends. I hook up with gay bi men...

But how they view us? It varies. Obiviously my ex is supportive but still sees me as a gay boy who looks like a girl.

from my experiences, gay men responds to transsexual issues just like every member of society. You have those who are utterly supportive of us. You have those who are just indifferent and you have those who do not like us.

It's just part of the human condition and ignorance.

I go to a Seminary where I would conservatively say that 60% of the men on campus are gay. Many of them are some of my closet friends. None of the gay men that I go to school at is against transsexuals.

Also, from my church and the non profits I volunteer at, gay men have been very nice.

You can say this same argument with Lesbians too. You got some that hate us (Womyn born womyn) and some that are indifferent and some that loves us.

Quote from: Axélle on October 23, 2011, 11:44:28 PM
Girls are more attracted to other girls gg or tg, for friendship and companionship not really sexual, at least initially? That sort of emo does not generally ring any bells with a gay males.

I agree with this observation completely. Gay men who do not enjoy the company of women, do not have female friends, do not partake in pastimes that women might, do not relate with women in the slightest.  A former employer of mine, who was gay and hired primarily gay staff, set a lot of this straight for me.  At that time I was a long haired, beardless, hetero male, and he had pointed out my looks and that I was far too feminine to be attractive for the click of men that he associated with. 

Beyond just intimacy with gay men, I also found that they didn't want to "get to know you" unless there was a reason behind it. This behavior I found no different than in any homophobic "mind yourself, don't ask any questions lest you seem gay" outlook, defining daily activities for hetero men.

In the world of straight men doing things with other straight men, it is the activity, and not how everyone is feeling about that activity, that matters.  There is no reason to really discuss fine details about the happenings of daily events, because they don't really care about how you feel each moment of the day.  I've not seen deviation from this in the way that manly gay men conduct themselves. They don't have a desire to know more than we are fellow LGBT and are interested in the same rights, and since we aren't their "type" no need to know us unless we enjoy the same hobbies and are necessary for its enjoyment, as you would expect one straight man to view another man.

This is obviously not true about the more effeminate gay males, as they can probably relate to you better than some GG's.

When it comes to the gay men who are accept us as sexual partners, my usual experience is that they do not enjoy flaccid genitals and obviously we have that issue if on HRT or have had any surgeries. We are by that limited in what we can do, even if we wanted to (which many of us don't, and would like to forget is possible).  The above mentioned manly gay men also commonly state that vaginas are ugly, and is probably a mental image they endure every time you remind them of your future plans.

Gay men will clock you easily. They are so conditioned to spotting ts people due to the large DQ community and that many of them do drag.

That being said, a smart T girl has a few drag queen friends. If you want honest critiques on how you dress, makeup, and present yourself...you will keep them around. That is my opinion though.

Quote from: Morrigan on October 24, 2011, 12:13:34 AM
I agree with this observation completely. Gay men who do not enjoy the company of women, do not have female friends, do not partake in pastimes that women might, do not relate with women in the slightest.  A former employer of mine, who was gay and hired primarily gay staff, set a lot of this straight for me.  At that time I was a long haired, beardless, hetero male, and he had pointed out my looks and that I was far too feminine to be attractive for the click of men that he associated with. 

This is an incorrect statement to the extreme.

I was a gay man and I had nothing but female friends. I was closer with them than they were with each other. I was the stereotypical gay best friend who went shopping with them. I was a femme too... I wore makeup, plucked my eyebrows, and wore tight clothes.

I was a gay man for 10 years. I know them extremely well... But yeah, very few men can pull of long hair. I hated it on men back then and I hate it on them now. I liked stereotypical acting guys, but god forbid any of them got into my makeup.

But lots of gay men do not like men who resemble metalheads... Which based on your description is how you looked before. I still prefer men to be prim, clean cut, and although I enjoy heavy metal... Most of the men are repulsive.

Some gay men are nice, others (most) not so much

It is hard for many to understand why we don't just live as gay men and why we would want to replace one of the main focuses of their attraction for something they find unappealing

I've noticed when I would go to a gay bar in younger days, when I presented as male I got strong drinks and treated nicely, when I dressed (even on Halloween) I was treated as less than

I also noticed that trans women would be disallowed to enter or even thrown out for any silly reason

I mostly distinctly remember a group of three couples that had arrived by limousine for New Years being denied because the gals were trans women

I quit going there

Its funny the gay men can only see us as females and once we disclose to straight men 9 time out of 10 they can only see us as male.  Ha. Actually not that funny.

Many gay men don't don't care for the strait crossdressers that that make a point of telling the world (shouting from the rooftops) they are strait, can't stand people even thinking they they aren't strait as if being gay it something horrible, then going to gay clubs for "safety" when they want to go out but never supporting(or actively opposing) gay rights or any gay causes and being vocal about separating the "T" from GBLT.

Crossdressing would still be a crime in many places if it weren't for gays fighting for your rights, so some do feel a bit spit on lately from a segment of the crossdressing community.
It's not a matter of gays not liking crossdressers or transgender individuals.

Quote from: amanda barber on October 24, 2011, 02:49:34 AM
Many gay men don't don't care for the strait crossdressers that that make a point of telling the world (shouting from the rooftops) they are strait, can't stand people even thinking they they aren't strait as if being gay it something horrible, then going to gay clubs for "safety" when they want to go out but never supporting(or actively opposing) gay rights or any gay causes and being vocal about separating the "T" from GBLT.

Crossdressing would still be a crime in many places if it weren't for gays fighting for your rights, so some do feel a bit spit on lately from a segment of the crossdressing community.
It's not a matter of gays not liking crossdressers or transgender individuals.

I've met so many crossdressers who were freaked out over my boyfriend and I.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 01:57:06 AM
This is an incorrect statement to the extreme.

I was a gay man and I had nothing but female friends. I was closer with them than they were with each other. I was the stereotypical gay best friend who went shopping with them. I was a femme too... I wore makeup, plucked my eyebrows, and wore tight clothes.

Copy Pasta incoming: [Only the] Gay men who DO NOT enjoy the company of women, DO NOT have female friends, DO NOT partake in pastimes that women might, [Then They] DO NOT relate with women in the slightest.

My point was absolutely not to say that all gay men were this way, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion unless you read what I typed wrong. I am referring to a specific type, and that is those who DO NOT associate with women in any way. I have no reason to say that gay men as a whole do not associate with GG's or MTF's, as I know some personally who do.

Quote from: Morrigan on October 24, 2011, 11:39:35 AM
Copy Pasta incoming: [Only the] Gay men who DO NOT enjoy the company of women, DO NOT have female friends, DO NOT partake in pastimes that women might, [Then They] DO NOT relate with women in the slightest.

My point was absolutely not to say that all gay men were this way, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion unless you read what I typed wrong. I am referring to a specific type, and that is those who DO NOT associate with women in any way. I have no reason to say that gay men as a whole do not associate with GG's or MTF's, as I know some personally who do.

To give Masha the benefit of the doubt, I read your post the same why she did.

The way you wrote it gave me the impression that you thought this was the general belief of gay men. In the prior post you did not have {only the} so it gave me the impression you were encompassing gay men in general.

QUESTION: Why one earth do we care so much about gay-men's acceptance of us in first place?!

Some may become friends, some may not care for us, right? Some in deed you will loose as friends as you move on into transition, that is VERY probable as much as is with hetero cis-male friends and cis-females. We do know all this by now, or?

Will they (gay-males) want to get into an intimate relationship with us being pre- or post-op MtF on HRT? I REALLY don't think so at all. So --- why fret?

I do not talk about non-op / non HRT, and if you wish Lady-boy images. THAT be pretty much a different issue in deed. And guess what? THAT... we do know as well, and who likes those folks... no need to tell I should guess ;-)

So? Enjoy life's variety best you can,
Axelle

Quote from: Axélle on October 24, 2011, 12:13:28 PM
QUESTION: Why one earth do we care so much about gay-men's acceptance of us in first place?!

Some may become friends, some may not care for us, right? Some in deed you will loose as friends as you move on into transition, that is VERY probable as much as is with hetero cis-male friends and cis-females. We do know all this by now, or?

Will they (gay-males) want to get into an intimate relationship with us being pre- or post-op MtF on HRT? I REALLY don't think so at all. So --- why fret?

I do not talk about non-op / non HRT, and if you wish Lady-boy images. THAT be pretty much a different issue in deed. And guess what? THAT... we do know as well, and who likes those folks... no need to tell I should guess ;-)

So? Enjoy life's variety best you can,
Axelle

I believe the OP wrote it in desire to ask if gay men accepts us in terms of friendships and just to accept us in general...not in relations of love and sex. It is a basic human desire to not be hated or looked down upon by anyone.

Quote from: Axélle on October 24, 2011, 12:13:28 PM
QUESTION: Why one earth do we care so much about gay-men's acceptance of us in first place?!

Some may become friends, some may not care for us, right? Some in deed you will loose as friends as you move on into transition, that is VERY probable as much as is with hetero cis-male friends and cis-females. We do know all this by now, or?

Will they (gay-males) want to get into an intimate relationship with us being pre- or post-op MtF on HRT? I REALLY don't think so at all. So --- why fret?

I do not talk about non-op / non HRT, and if you wish Lady-boy images. THAT be pretty much a different issue in deed. And guess what? THAT... we do know as well, and who likes those folks... no need to tell I should guess ;-)

So? Enjoy life's variety best you can,
Axelle

I have no intention of srs and my former lover, Dustin was into the fact that I used to be a pretty gay boy who was now a pretty girl. He loved my boobs, we were very intimate with each other, etc

But for all intents. He was a gay man.... What people don't realize is that a lot of gay men are into ts's.. Obviously, they don't see them as women. They see them as extreme femmes. But really it's a change of perspective. There are plenty of homosexual mtf ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s.

I know several gay men who dress up in drag and do their b/fs.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 23, 2011, 11:24:52 PM. . . getting rid of the penis bothers many of them.

I wouldn't say that gay men are less accepting, but they don't understand transsexuals.

I would *ditto* that; it's not so much a question of "accepting".... As much as I've had gay friends and adore them to death they're simply not interested sexually in anybody *sans penis* that cannot reciprocate in the momasculineine, traditionally Greek or Roman fashion!

I mean isn't that the whole point, definition of "gay boy" in the first place? And which leaves us more classic, "straight" MtF's in the rather sorry position of havin to *compete* with ordinary gg's for the attentions of otherwise "non-perverted", religiously heterosexual males!

Quote from: Annah on October 23, 2011, 11:58:03 PM
from my experiences, gay men responds to transsexual issues just like every member of society. You have those who are utterly supportive of us. You have those who are just indifferent and you have those who do not like us.

It's just part of the human condition and ignorance.

I go to a Seminary where I would conservatively say that 60% of the men on campus are gay. Many of them are some of my closet friends. None of the gay men that I go to school at is against transsexuals.

Also, from my church and the non profits I volunteer at, gay men have been very nice.

You can say this same argument with Lesbians too. You got some that hate us (Womyn born womyn) and some that are indifferent and some that loves us.

Oh so your still in the closet Hmmmm ohhhh  :o    ???    ::)


wow 60% are gay ... oh my .. those poor straight ones who are going for serious reasons must be in shock with all those gay men offering to help tutor  :D

Quote from: Axélle on October 24, 2011, 12:13:28 PM


Will they (gay-males) want to get into an intimate relationship with us being pre- or post-op MtF on HRT? I REALLY don't think so at all. So --- why fret?

My man did.
that relationship has lasted a long time.

Quote from: Kiera on October 24, 2011, 02:54:01 PM
I would *ditto* that; it's not so much a question of "accepting".... As much as I've had gay friends and adore them to death they're simply not interested sexually in anybody *sans penis* that cannot reciprocate in the momasculineine, traditionally Greek or Roman fashion!

I mean isn't that the whole point, definition of "gay boy" in the first place? And which leaves us more classic, "straight" MtF's in the rather sorry position of havin to *compete* with ordinary gg's for the attentions of otherwise "non-perverted", religiously heterosexual males!

Well I am keeping my penis. So I dont' really care either way what the guy is... I get along well with bi gay men who are into femmes. But there's a much more positive dynamic with hetero men.

the real truth of gay men disliking TS might eb Greens 50 - Dr Green had fifty young boys brought to him as being too fmeinine and wanting to twirl about in pretty dresses ar 4/5/6 year olds but none of these chose to go for sex chnage or live female and all ebcame gay guys who then got very angry/upset when reminded about their infant drag kid years.

so perhaps thee is a lot of internalised shame with gay gays about their early crossdressing?
then again as gays worship penises that hate us for getting rid of ours - and for wanting to find a nice straight guy as a partner.

Quote from: lilacwoman on October 24, 2011, 03:58:43 PM

then again as gays worship penises that hate us for getting rid of ours - and for wanting to find a nice straight guy as a partner.

Not really. My ex boyfriend and I used to have sex with women... He had two children with his hag. I slept with my  hag and her older sister. We slept with plenty of women and men, even though him and I were 75% gay. But transwomen were a definite NO back then, because he didn't understand them....much less the attraction to them.

But there is a definite sense of betraying the manhood, which goes well beyond srs.

There is an obvious shallow side to the gay community, when the term they use for female partners is "->-bleeped-<- Hag". There are so many things that it seems these gay men have already contemplated and decided what they like and don't like. It would seem that we're better off taking our chances with straight or bi men (ideally Bi-curious!), who are less likely to discuss these things with each other and create "Brotherhoods", which may even have some guidelines of conduct, enacting a sort of social justice?

Straight people are as a norm, uncomfortable with TGs, but aren't very likely to tell everyone about it. That, to me, makes it more of an individual decision to befriend a TG individual, or not to. Something decided on your own like this is less likely to have the ignorant interference involved with peer groups. Beyond certain church groups, straight people don't often talk about ->-bleeped-<-, while a gay group of friends are more likely to have discussed it and have a collective opinion on them.

Quote from: Morrigan on October 24, 2011, 06:16:49 PM
There is an obvious shallow side to the gay community, when the term they use for female partners is "->-bleeped-<- Hag". There are so many things that it seems these gay men have already contemplated and decided what they like and don't like.

Again, you've never lived in a gay community. I am from the Castro in SF and I lived with my ->-bleeped-<- hag for a month. She was one of my best friends. Along with every other girl I was friends with.

So please don't comment on the shallowness of the gay community if you've never actually been there.

My opinions don't come from the SF area, so my experiences may vary from those in such a place. I wasn't criticizing how anyone treats women, but whoever keyed that phrase didn't know or didn't care that it might be wildly offensive in a good many states, or other countries for that matter...I always forget these are international forums.

I find the term ->-bleeped-<- Hag to be rather quite offensive  >:(  If anyone ever used that term to describe me there would be a pretty darn good chance they'ed get their fanny kicked and be on my poo list for all eternity

Quote from: Morrigan on October 24, 2011, 07:34:29 PM
My opinions don't come from the SF area, so my experiences may vary from those in such a place. I wasn't criticizing how anyone treats women, but whoever keyed that phrase didn't know or didn't care that it might be wildly offensive in a good many states, or other countries for that matter...I always forget these are international forums.

You mean Gay men? Thats who coined that phrase. Gay men did. So you can take it up with that community if you're offended by what they call their cheerleaders.

->-bleeped-<- hags- normally plain looking girls with great personality who are a homosexual male's companion

Fruitfly- A gorgeous girl who is the homosexual males companion.

I've never actually had this problem. All but one of the gay men I've met have been very kind to me and very understanding. I've only met two gay men that I did not like, and they were very obnoxious people to begin with. The rest kept calling me strong (I usually don't think of myself as strong), and expressed sorrow that the world is so dark for transsexuals right now.

Maybe it's different in the USA?

Quote from: Amazon D on October 24, 2011, 03:15:08 PM

Oh so your still in the closet Hmmmm ohhhh  :o    ???    ::)


wow 60% are gay ... oh my .. those poor straight ones who are going for serious reasons must be in shock with all those gay men offering to help tutor  :D

oops, that's one heckuva typo. 

Yeah it's about 60%. Poor straight guys have a miserable time here.....as a lot of the girls who go here are lesbian.

Quote from: V M on October 24, 2011, 08:12:36 PM
I find the term ->-bleeped-<- Hag to be rather quite offensive  >:(  If anyone ever used that term to describe me there would be a pretty darn good chance they'ed get their fanny kicked and be on my poo list for all eternity

the phrase "->-bleeped-<- hag" is actually a pretty non offensive term here. They've been using it for years and have been calling each other that.

If someone did get offended by being called a ->-bleeped-<-hag in this area that means they haven't been near the gay community for too long.

Same with the term "Queer." Here, it is a term that just describes everyone in the LGBTQIA Spectrum and is accepted and a proud term. Elsewhere, people see it as a term familiar with "->-bleeped-<-*ot."

Quote from: Sailor_Saturn on October 24, 2011, 09:42:42 PM
I've never actually had this problem. All but one of the gay men I've met have been very kind to me and very understanding. I've only met two gay men that I did not like, and they were very obnoxious people to begin with. The rest kept calling me strong (I usually don't think of myself as strong), and expressed sorrow that the world is so dark for transsexuals right now.

Maybe it's different in the USA?

Thats how it is in the USA too, when you actually interact with the community instead of doing what so many do and just make claims about how people think or feel from afar.

Quote from: Annah on October 24, 2011, 11:24:52 PM
the phrase "->-bleeped-<- hag" is actually a pretty non offensive term here. They've been using it for years and have been calling each other that.

If someone did get offended by being called a ->-bleeped-<-hag in this area that means they haven't been near the gay community for too long.

Same with the term "Queer." Here, it is a term that just describes everyone in the LGBTQIA Spectrum and is accepted and a proud term. Elsewhere, people see it as a term familiar with "->-bleeped-<-*ot."

I don't really care who started it and/or if it's the hip catch term, I find it disrespectful and demeaning... Kinda like saying Bitch Whore is a term of endearment  :P

Kinda the same feel as someone saying "Yo, you's is my skank bitch whore sees... Like that yo"

Sorry, that's just how I feel