Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I can't help but notice there are a lot of girls here who seem proud of not wearing makeup. What is the logic in that?

In my opinion, most ciswomen need makeup(minimal) to even look good when they leave the house in the morning. Add to that contouring/highlighting can change an andro face into a femme face. It is a trick employed by drag queens, which I feel could be useful here. You do nude eye instead of cut creases and you won't look like a drag queen. It's all in moderation. But not wearing makeup, makes you immediately clockable IMO...facial prettiness aside.

So why wouldn't people here wear cosmetics? Is it because they don't know how? Are they merely waiting for the effects of HRT to kick in? I knew I waited almost 15 months in to kick up my makeup...But I was very much into the "zero phase" prototype stage of the early transition. I didn't have a feminine mother or sister encouraging me to dress differently. My therapist had advised me not to get hair extensions and do crazy makeup to avoid looking like a "stereotypical trans"...she was so wrong.

Truth is, all women need some form of makeup to look good. Unless you are swimming or hiking, there is NO REASON not to wear it.

Enlighten me.

I have always preferred a no make-up look on a  girl no matter what. to me there's a real allure to just being completely natural.
not that make-up cant look good, quite the contrary, I also have a soft spot to really well done eye make-up.

I think anyone who doesn't want to wear make-up is probably just being themselves and not worrying/caring about passing. which Is admirable and I envy it. you gotta live life for yourself. and if they prefer it there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

as for me I do need it when I am attempting to pass and so I use it for such times. It is my wish that someday I will not need it and it will become a choice more than a requirement.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 03:21:09 PM
Truth is My opinion is, all women need some form of makeup to look good. Unless you are swimming or hiking, there is NO REASON not to wear it.

Fixed that for you.  Maybe they don't want to?  Not all girls feel the need to in order to be attractive. 

Quote from: Eve of Chaos on October 24, 2011, 03:29:03 PM
I have always preferred a no make-up look on a  girl no matter what. to me there's a real allure to just being completely natural.
not that make-up cant look good, quite the contrary, I also have a soft spot to really well done eye make-up.

I think anyone who doesn't want to wear make-up is probably just being themselves and not worrying/caring about passing. which Is admirable and I envy it. you gotta live life for yourself. and if they prefer it there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

as for me I do need it when I am attempting to pass and so I use it for such times. It is my wish that someday I will not need it and it will become a choice more than a requirement.

But isn't part of being a girl wearing makeup? every single woman I know wears it. Of course, I work in cosmetics.

   It's simple really, most ts women don't know how to apply makeup, sad but true.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 03:32:53 PM
But isn't part of being a girl wearing makeup? every single woman I know wears it. Of course, I work in cosmetics.

That's a gender stereotype.  Most women I know don't wear make-up.  Their skin is actually better than most people that wear make-up all the time. 

id say most girls do. but A lot of girls I hang around dont use any. and when they do its extremely elaborated. not used to blend.

i also know some girls who would never ever be seen without make-up. not even to their closest friends and family.

really its a preference, and although most girls  use it everyday saying that It is part of being a girl can be viewed as sexist to some.

just because a lot of people agree on an opinion doesn't make it a fact. that's whats key to remember.

Quote from: Rukia87xo on October 24, 2011, 03:37:02 PM
   It's simple really, most ts women don't know how to apply makeup, sad but true.

Or dress....

I looked back at the photos when I first started and I was like, "Glenn was so right, I needed a complete tear down"

Quote from: Andy8715 on October 24, 2011, 03:37:54 PM

That's a gender stereotype.  Most women I know don't wear make-up.  Their skin is actually better than most people that wear make-up all the time.

Not usually. I live in SF and yeesh, go from the artsy Mission district to the Marina. Big difference in style and makeup. I associate no makeup with khaffiyahs, birkenstocks, and corduroys. Even hipster girls wear some makeup..

Well I want to be part of the binary. Most women wear makeup. Ever wonder why fashion magazines show newest styles?

Isn't that stuff itchy and cause pores? I think I would look just fine without make up.

Quote from: Andy8715 on October 24, 2011, 03:37:54 PM
That's a gender stereotype.  Most women I know don't wear make-up.

Nor do most of the one's I know.

   Look the truth of the matter is that alot of cisgendered women don't wear makeup because they don't need to. They were born female, with female facial features thus they don't need to wear makeup as much as say a ts women would need to hide those male facial features with makeup.



   That is why some ts women get FFS so they don't have to wear makeup, or atleast not so much of it.  :D

it all depends on how lucky the person is?
nice skin and small fem face and no need for makeup while a rougher skin and testo'd male features do benefit from the camouflage of makeup.
I'm still having electrolysis and the awful scars and burn marks need heavy maekup
luckily in my town and office lots of other women like makeup so its no problem.

Because it actually heightens my dysphoria. Every time I pick up the brush I'm reminded "I do this to pass, I won't stand a chance otherwise."

I actually do wear makeup, blended and matched well enough to make it look like I wear none.

Meh. I wear it cuz I want to. I definitely want to project the whole, "I am from California. I go to the beach. I take tequila shots all night long and listen to dance music non stop" image.

I don't actually wear that much... Just as much as any other girl around here which is how it looks in the photo. I wear it cuz it makes me feel great... Just some foundation with contour, powder, and eye liner with minimal shadow.

But I experiment. I've always wanted to be like this... I grew up watching BH 90210, Melrose Place, Dynasty, baywatch and watching "House of style".

Most of the women I know wear little to no make up.

The only time most gals around here wear the stuff is when they are going out for an evening on the town or headed to church.

Personaly I do not wear any make up most the time. If I do put it on ussualy I will only do a lite amount of eyeliner and some lipstick.
Every once and awhile I will doll up and do a complete face and wear something cute...but there better be a steak or a lobster salad in my future for all that trouble.
;)

*puts flame shield on*  Umm...i agree with mahsa, ts girls should experiment with makeup more, it does help you pass.  :icon_yes:

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 03:21:09 PM
I can't help but notice there are a lot of girls here who seem proud of not wearing makeup. What is the logic in that?

In my opinion, most ciswomen need makeup(minimal) to even look good when they leave the house in the morning. Add to that contouring/highlighting can change an andro face into a femme face. It is a trick employed by drag queens, which I feel could be useful here. You do nude eye instead of cut creases and you won't look like a drag queen. It's all in moderation. But not wearing makeup, makes you immediately clockable IMO...facial prettiness aside.

So why wouldn't people here wear cosmetics? Is it because they don't know how? Are they merely waiting for the effects of HRT to kick in? I knew I waited almost 15 months in to kick up my makeup...But I was very much into the "zero phase" prototype stage of the early transition. I didn't have a feminine mother or sister encouraging me to dress differently. My therapist had advised me not to get hair extensions and do crazy makeup to avoid looking like a "stereotypical trans"...she was so wrong.

Truth is, all women need some form of makeup to look good. Unless you are swimming or hiking, there is NO REASON not to wear it.

Enlighten me.

Because the double standard it perpetuates is sexist, simple as that.  The expectation that women must 'pretty themselves up' for others, not only through their dress, which must be at once concealing but alluring (but not too much of either), but also through makeup and mannerisms, is a patently corrupt relic of a patriarchal system.

Unless you're using it to help you pass, there's no need for makeup, though people who want to wear it can run wild, I guess?  I dunno, they're not my type. 

Basically, you're telling me that I'm ugly, and worse, male, as I am and that I need an artificial coating over my face to look halfway decent?  <not allowed> that.

For the record, my sister is way into cosmetics and she has tried several times to get me into it.  But guess what?  I've got no interest, no patience, no time to doll myself up for whatever males decide that I'm ogle-worthy material, and most importantly no stomach for the people that tell me I'm committing some grave social faux pas by forgoing it.  Maybe you need it for your own confidence?  Knock yourself out.  But don't presume to tell me what I "need to look good".  That's insulting.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 03:32:53 PM
But isn't part of being a girl wearing makeup? every single woman I know wears it. Of course, I work in cosmetics.

And here, my dear, is where we learn that the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

Quote from: Eve of Chaos on October 24, 2011, 03:29:03 PM
I have always preferred a no make-up look on a  girl no matter what. to me there's a real allure to just being completely natural.
not that make-up cant look good, quite the contrary, I also have a soft spot to really well done eye make-up.

I think anyone who doesn't want to wear make-up is probably just being themselves and not worrying/caring about passing. which Is admirable and I envy it. you gotta live life for yourself. and if they prefer it there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

as for me I do need it when I am attempting to pass and so I use it for such times. It is my wish that someday I will not need it and it will become a choice more than a requirement.

Hey look!  Someone saying something reasonable.  Keep doing what you're doing.

Mahsa, I find a lot of your posts funny, insightful, and interesting, but this one rubs me the wrong way.  You're making a lot of assumptions, advocating a position ("all women need makeup no matter what", implying those who don't risk being seen as men) that is inflammatory and offensive, and also totally siccing a black marker all over the freedom for all women, not just cis women, to express gender or sexual nonconformity in pretty much any way they want.  I'm talking dykes, butches, bois, genderqueers, gender->-bleeped-<-ers, and any number of identities that might fall under the umbrella of female.  Any of them that identify as women are no less women than cis heterosexual girls who are makeup designers, femme trans lesbians that love overdoing it, or intersexed female-identified people with conventional gender presentation, and they don't need to put chemicals on their face to reach that state of equivalency.

blah blah disclaimer about not identifying as a woman or girl yet answering to this because i identify as female and as such feel that the question, being posed in the mtf forum, is inclusive of me

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 03:32:53 PM
But isn't part of being a girl wearing makeup? every single woman I know wears it. Of course, I work in cosmetics.

Lol no?

Look into the statistics of makeup usage... it is kind of disgusting. Feeling like you need to always have your natural skin covered because you don't naturally match magazine ads? You think that is healthy? o.O

My mother and both my sisters very very rarely wear makeup (like at very special occasions maybe).

"Part of being a girl wearing makeup"??? Omg, that is so wrong on so many levels :| Well, looks like the cosmetic industry and the mass marketing is working at least?

Quote from: Rabbit on October 24, 2011, 04:08:33 PM

"Part of being a girl wearing makeup"??? Omg, that is so wrong on so many levels :| Well, looks like the cosmetic industry and the mass marketing is working at least?

Maybe it's different in your community. I am from a large ethnic community, and I myself am ethnic(half Persian). Ethnic women tend to wear more makeup than their Anglo counterparts. Men want their women to look like trophies...and I totally support that.

But for me, it makes sense...I like to go out to clubs, fancy restaurants, the gym, etc

I'm from the south and no one in my family wears makeup.
Some consider wearing eyeliner 'just enough'

It's a little silly lol.


Is someone gonna have the balls to say that most transgirls who haven't had FFS don't exactly look the prettiest when they're natural?
Or is that just gonna be me?

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 04:13:01 PM
I myself am ethnic(half Persian). Ethnic women tend to wear more makeup than their Anglo counterparts.

It's funny you say that because where I'm from it's mostly white women that wear all the make up and women of a certain ethnicity (African American) who don't wear any make-up. 

I would def shy away from saying "ethnic women" if I were you because there are so so many ethnicitys that could mean and not all of them are into make-up.

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 04:16:42 PM
Is someone gonna have the balls to say that most transgirls who haven't had FFS don't exactly look the prettiest when they're natural?

You could say the same about most cis women. 

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 04:13:01 PM
Maybe it's different in your community. I am from a large ethnic community, and I myself am ethnic(half Persian). Ethnic women tend to wear more makeup than their Anglo counterparts. Men want their women to look like trophies...and I totally support that.

But for me, it makes sense...I like to go out to clubs, fancy restaurants, the gym, etc

More baseless anecdotal assumptions and more non sequitur references to "dressing up".

Also, hi, "ethnic" female reporting in.  This is what she looks like without makeup:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc7%2F316527_209283665805041_100001702277069_546399_1095475956_n.jpg&hash=cd683cbe9d22fb527d1352b1baca31cefa244a6a)

You could say the same about most cis women.


And that's true.
But they pass as women.

That's what I'm trying to get at.
It's not a vanity thing.

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 04:16:42 PM
Is someone gonna have the balls to say that most transgirls who haven't had FFS don't exactly look the prettiest when they're natural?
Or is that just gonna be me?

Having seen several people without makeup here, on youtube, etc... I agree. I mean imagine this guy transitioning without wearing any makeup...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com%2Fimages01%2F2%2F819ebeceed15ba97b3dc9cd0970db7cf%2Fl.jpg&hash=7828091833f810e89dce3279e1090ce1ed38742e)

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 04:16:42 PM
Is someone gonna have the balls to say that most transgirls who haven't had FFS don't exactly look the prettiest when they're natural?
Or is that just gonna be me?

   Joey let me chime in for a min. I don't know why everyone here is so against makeup or why they're flaming the OP. Personally i luv wearing makeup and experimenting with it, maybe it's just different personality's.


     I think it's funny how you guys are saying most women don't wear makeup yet the makeup industry is booming, someone is buying that makeup?  ;)

Not trying to be mean but it's a good example haha.

Secondhand embarrassment, much.

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 04:22:13 PM
You could say the same about most cis women.


And that's true.
But they pass as women.

That's what I'm trying to get at.
It's not a vanity thing.

Maybe that's saying more about rigid, imperiously prescribed social expectations about beauty, mm?

Also, something I didn't catch.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 04:13:01 PM
Men want their women to look like trophies...and I totally support that.

Please tell me you're joking.  Please don't make me do this.

Quote from: Rukia87xo on October 24, 2011, 04:24:05 PM

   Joey let me chime in for a min. I don't know why everyone here is so against makeup or why they're flaming the OP. Personally i luv wearing makeup and experimenting with it, maybe it's just different personality's.


     I think it's funny how you guys are saying most women don't wear makeup yet the makeup industry is booming, someone is buying that makeup?  ;)

When did "flaming" become a synonym for "call out on intolerant belief"?

I'm saying nothing about whether women, cis or trans or whatever, do or don't buy makeup.  I'm saying it's wrong to say "all women need to wear makeup", "ethnic women wear lots of makeup", or "women should dress up like trophies for men" because they're inflammatory and insulting to those of us who don't have a strictly heteronormative, binaristic set of gender and sexual identities and expressions.

Quote from: Wonderdyke on October 24, 2011, 04:18:44 PM
Also, hi, "ethnic" female reporting in.  This is what she looks like without makeup:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc7%2F316527_209283665805041_100001702277069_546399_1095475956_n.jpg&hash=cd683cbe9d22fb527d1352b1baca31cefa244a6a)

  Wonderdyke, i think you look great without any makeup but you've had full FFS so you shouldn't use yourself as an example...just my opinion  :P

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 04:23:05 PM
Having seen several people without makeup here, on youtube, etc... I agree. I mean imagine this guy transitioning without wearing any makeup...

With the attitude you are showing "women must wear make-up to be pretty rawr" it's not hard to imagine why some girls have problems going out in public without make-up on even if they hate wearing it.

Quote from: Wonderdyke on October 24, 2011, 04:06:37 PM

Mahsa, I find a lot of your posts funny, insightful, and interesting, but this one rubs me the wrong way.  You're making a lot of assumptions, advocating a position ("all women need makeup no matter what", implying those who don't risk being seen as men) that is inflammatory and offensive, and also totally siccing a black marker all over the freedom for all women, not just cis women, to express gender or sexual nonconformity in pretty much any way they want.  I'm talking dykes, butches, bois, genderqueers, gender->-bleeped-<-ers, and any number of identities that might fall under the umbrella of female.  Any of them that identify as women are no less women than cis heterosexual girls who are makeup designers, femme trans lesbians that love overdoing it, or intersexed female-identified people with conventional gender presentation, and they don't need to put chemicals on their face to reach that state of equivalency.

blah blah disclaimer about not identifying as a woman or girl yet answering to this because i identify as female and as such feel that the question, being posed in the mtf forum, is inclusive of me

Well I support the different identities thing completely. Perhaps I went about addressing this subject the wrong way. Most of my friends are gay men who work in fashion and I suppose i am used to them critiquing every woman for being simple looking. I think that definitely carried over transition wise.

Wonderdyke, i think you look great without any makeup but you've had full FFS so you shouldn't use yourself as an example...just my opinion

That's what I was thinking too.

It's cheating and only making those who haven't had FFS(like me xD) feel worse lol.
This isn't imposing on a board for cis-women who don't need makeup and don't have to worry about people thinking they're "men".
It's a board for trans-women :P

kind of a big difference.
be realistic.

  Let the debate begin!!  :D

Quote from: Rukia87xo on October 24, 2011, 04:31:15 PM

  Wonderdyke, i think you look great without any makeup but you've had full FFS so you shouldn't use yourself as an example...just my opinion  :P

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 04:34:15 PM
Wonderdyke, i think you look great without any makeup but you've had full FFS so you shouldn't use yourself as an example...just my opinion

That's what I was thinking too.

It's cheating and only making those who haven't had FFS(like me xD) feel worse lol.
This isn't imposing on a board for cis-women who don't need makeup and don't have to worry about people thinking they're "men".
It's a board for trans-women :P

kind of a big difference.
be realistic.

While you are both skilled flatterers ( :D ), the way you phrase that suggests that there's a difference in the way that cis women and trans women should behave.  Aren't they both women?  Shouldn't they both be allowed to decide "screw it, I don't want to wear makeup today" or "hmm, this makeup looks good, I'll try it"?

There's a difference between makeup for passing and makeup for pleasure, and though they may sometimes intersect, the explicit statement from the OP is that all women require makeup to look good.

(And the looking good/passing privilege dichotomy is a WHOLE other can of worms that I don't want to get into, for fear of straying off topic and of ranting for miles.)

I am no mans trophy.
I am not on this earth for the visual pleasure of men.
I am not going to make myself a target for the males of our society to oogle.

If my natural beauty and bright soul are not pretty enough for a man then he can go jump in a lake and take his patriarchal opinions with him.

If and I mean IF I wear make up it is for me and my spouse.

Having to rely on make up to look feminine is a crutch I don't need or want.

And as for the man shown...give him HRT for 3 months, a few hours of electro and laser and he would be down right cute without a drop of make up.

Lol this kinda reminds me of an episode of Seinfeld lol.
Meets someone he finds very attractive they end up in
bed.  In the morning he wakes and sees what she looks
like without makeup and gets scared lol.

Not to change the subject lol :D

But where is the fun if you have to have makeup on . . .

Quote from: Wonderdyke on October 24, 2011, 04:42:22 PM
While you are both skilled flatterers ( :D ), the way you phrase that suggests that there's a difference in the way that cis women and trans women should behave.  Aren't they both women?  Shouldn't they both be allowed to decide "screw it, I don't want to wear makeup today" or "hmm, this makeup looks good, I'll try it"?

There's a difference between makeup for passing and makeup for pleasure, and though they may sometimes intersect, the explicit statement from the OP is that all women require makeup to look good.

(And the looking good/passing privilege dichotomy is a WHOLE other can of worms that I don't want to get into, for fear of straying off topic and of ranting for miles.)

    I don't agree with her saying that all women require makeup to look good but i do agree with her that trans women should practice makeup alot more, it can def increase your passing factor lol. I think most trans women don't like wearing makeup cuz for them it's hard to apply, cisgendered women grow up learning how to apply makeup so it's not a big deal for them. I've been practicing makeup for about a year now and i still have trouble with it, it takes alot time & practice but it can be a life saver for some.

   *Sips on juice box*

Yeah, don't flame on Mahsa for her opinions, it's just how she grew up lol.

but i do agree with her that trans women should practice makeup alot more, it can def increase your passing factor lol.

+1
hehe i've never done that before.

I am going to preface everything I say by noting that I do wear makeup, and love the creativity that makeup allows. Ever since I began transitioning, makeup gave me such freedom in allowing me to play around and be creative, and see a sort of mini-transition occur before my eyes. Mahsa, I see where you are coming from, but I have to say I disagree with you completely on this.

I honestly think that more transwomen don't pass because of trying too hard, rather than not trying enough. I know this from experience. When I first went full time, I wore pink lipstick, eyeliner, eyeshadow and foundation every day for a while. Not only did this cause me to be late to school, but it actually hurt me in terms of passing. Wearing too much makeup will draw attention to you and possibly accentuate more masculine aspects of your face. It wasn't until I began getting tired of spending hours on makeup every day that I realized I actually looked softer, and more feminine with less or no makeup.

That being said, I think there is a happy medium. There are days I wear no makeup because of time constraints, but when I do, a little foundation, some eyeliner on the top of the eyelid and a bit of mascara does wonders for me (and using lip balm instead of gloss or lipstick). It helps me look fresher and more awake, yet it is subtle enough that it doesn't look overdone and retains the soft look that I aim for.  I don't do this to pass, because I think I pass fine without makeup, but I do it because it is flattering and natural, and not overdone.

But to be honest, I would take no makeup than too much any day in terms of trying to look more feminine. Being confident in how you look without makeup is a lot better than feeling as though you have to rely on it. Makeup should accentuate your femininity, not be a crutch for it.

Makeup is a personal decision.  No one has the right to say that you should, or shouldn't wear it.

Around the house my wife never wears makeup, but if she needs to go to the store for "anything" no matter how short of a trip, she will put on her makeup.  That's her decision, her right, every girls right.

I'm pretty much the same, I don't wear makeup around the house, but if I'm going out, I will put on light makeup.  My decision, my right, I do it for myself, not for those who see me.

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 05:03:05 PM
+1
hehe i've never done that before.

    :icon_tenisclap:

  Lol where is my + 1 woman?!?!  :D

  Lol where is my + 1 woman?!?!

xD I kinda forgot...


Around the house my wife never wears makeup, but if she needs to go to the store for "anything" no matter how short of a trip, she will put on her makeup.  That's her decision, her right, every girls right.

I don't wear makeup around the house either, it's nice to relax.
But if I go out presenting as female, i'd rather not embarrass myself and look a mess by not wearing it.

I hate that I'm getting the vibe that people who are pro-makeup are seen as horrible and unrealistic on this site.

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 05:12:06 PM

I hate that I'm getting the vibe that people who are pro-makeup are seen as horrible and unrealistic on this site.

I blame me.

I'm a a da** troublemaker, see what I've done?

I blame me.
Shut your damn pretty face.

It's others :P
whom i'm not gonna name.
because thats rude.
and I'm not a rude person.

Excessive periods are necessary.

i need to throw my opinion in here. a lot of women dont need makeup,especailly those who are very young, thats very much true. however, for ts women, MOST DO.  so for a ts woman that doesnt pass who still doesnt wear makeup which might help her pass either gives the idea that she doesnt care about her appearance or doesnt care about passing. for that person maybe thats okay, but i disagree. I think it really hurts the ts women who are trying to pass and assimilate into society as a girl. by not doing what you can to pass, its almost like acting like you want to flaunt your ts status, which most of us do not at all. even when i was a boy i was wearing makeupcuz it made me feel better about my appearance. do i need makeup now ? nah i dont think so all the time, but i wear it cuz it makes me more confident as a girl and it makes me feel more attractive, which in turn helps me pass. who wouldnt want that ??? and i rarely see girls my age ( twenty five  to thirty ) without some sort of makeup on their face, and my job is to blend in, so i do what other girls my age are doing, which in turn is wearing makeup most of the time.

oh just to add to this a little bit more. gg's dont have alot of the issues that ts women do wiyth thier face. by the time we get to twenty-five, wever been shaving our faces for 6-7 and for some for 10 years already. that causes alot of damage to the face that women dont have to deal with. to think that you can go around without covering that damage up is almost laughable, cuz for some its one of the tings tat makes you instantly clockable. genetic girls have smooth, soft faces. even the ones that have hair dont have the rough skin that comes from shaving. just saying , that stuff needs to be covered

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 05:18:24 PM

Shut your damn pretty face.

:D /blushes

If there happens to be a personal development, we're (the staff) here.

I grew up with a bunch of sisters, and had a drag queen boyfriend when I was 14-15.

I have been doing my make up since I was a kid. (granted it was in the privacy of my bedroom) I think I have had plenty of practice.

Wow, skeery serious arguments over face paint. Okay.

I happen to prefer not wearing makeup, at the moment. That may change. Who knows. Who cares? It's makeup.

Well, imma go brush my androgynous hair, put on a men's button-up, my men's green cloth jacket (that amusingly says "New Boy" across the back), and my unisex hi-top black converse, cause I need to go out now. Yes, all that is a luxury of my passability. But try not to forget that there are a lot of different folks at Susan's with a variety of identities and goals.

Just an aside: Mahsa, you do realize that most of those andro girls you are drooling over have nothing on their faces but skin and moisturizer?

I don't wear make up much at all.. If I'm going out to some kind of event, sure I'll do a little work around the eyes and add some lipstick.. But day to day? I'll rarely if ever wear it.. And to those who say it 'required'? My comment is this, in the last month or so the only people that have called me he, sir or anything else vaguely male are family members - most of whom immediately correct themselves..

As I've mentioned previously, I'm Dior trained when it comes to make up. So a lack of skill is not an issue for me.. I just don't like the feeling of having my whole face covered, many women in my age group (in my location) don't bother on a day to day basis.. I also work in a kitchen, where the heat and humidity tends to make it slide clean off anyway - despite the use of fixers, etc..

I could go on and on about how saying we all need to conform to stereotypes is wrong, but I'd be wasting my time around here..

Quote from: angelfaced on October 24, 2011, 05:21:00 PM
i need to throw my opinion in here. a lot of women dont need makeup,especailly those who are very young, thats very much true. however, for ts women, MOST DO.  so for a ts woman that doesnt pass who still doesnt wear makeup which might help her pass either gives the idea that she doesnt care about her appearance or doesnt care about passing. for that person maybe thats okay, but i disagree. I think it really hurts the ts women who are trying to pass and assimilate into society as a girl. by not doing what you can to pass, its almost like acting like you want to flaunt your ts status, which most of us do not at all. even when i was a boy i was wearing makeupcuz it made me feel better about my appearance. do i need makeup now ? nah i dont think so all the time, but i wear it cuz it makes me more confident as a girl and it makes me feel more attractive, which in turn helps me pass. who wouldnt want that ??? and i rarely see girls my age ( twenty five  to thirty ) without some sort of makeup on their face, and my job is to blend in, so i do what other girls my age are doing, which in turn is wearing makeup most of the time.

oh just to add to this a little bit more. gg's dont have alot of the issues that ts women do wiyth thier face. by the time we get to twenty-five, wever been shaving our faces for 6-7 and for some for 10 years already. that causes alot of damage to the face that women dont have to deal with. to think that you can go around without covering that damage up is almost laughable, cuz for some its one of the tings tat makes you instantly clockable. genetic girls have smooth, soft faces. even the ones that have hair dont have the rough skin that comes from shaving. just saying , that stuff needs to be covered

Wow.. that's just so wrong I don't know where to start.. If wearing make up makes you feel good, by all means do it - but don't tell me I need to..  And don't tell me I'm trying to flaunt anything or hurt any body.. I'm just getting on with my life..

I have a nice soft face, (after a proper shave) so much so that the GG's in my family have expressed some jealousy about my skin.. I've never had rough skin, mostly because I recognised from a young age how bad for the skin shaving was and took steps the help and improve it..

My final comment is that broad generalisations and enforcement of gender stereotypes is wrong..

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 05:12:06 PM
  Lol where is my + 1 woman?!?!

xD I kinda forgot...


Around the house my wife never wears makeup, but if she needs to go to the store for "anything" no matter how short of a trip, she will put on her makeup.  That's her decision, her right, every girls right.

I don't wear makeup around the house either, it's nice to relax.
But if I go out presenting as female, i'd rather not embarrass myself and look a mess by not wearing it.

I hate that I'm getting the vibe that people who are pro-makeup are seen as horrible and unrealistic on this site.

+1... People want to justify what they can't do or don't want to do. It's a matter of different opinion.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 03:21:09 PM
I can't help but notice there are a lot of girls here who seem proud of not wearing makeup. What is the logic in that?

I never go out into public without makeup.  My partner Julie is the same way.  For her, it's a religion!  But I have seen some T-girls out in public with no makeup and I'm afraid to say they out themselves by doing so.  However, these same women make little effort with their voices too.  To each their own, I guess.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 03:21:09 PM
Truth is, all women need some form of makeup to look good. Unless you are swimming or hiking, there is NO REASON not to wear it.

Enlighten me.

I really, really, really don't like this sentiment and am honestly surprised to hear it from a woman.  ALL WOMEN?  Seriously?!?  I think people would see more of women's natural beauty if we as a society didn't create a false sense of beauty through our make up products, surgeries, clothing styles, etc and objectify them all the time.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 04:13:01 PM
Men want their women to look like trophies...and I totally support that.

And this trophy idea is exactly what I'm talking about.  Thanks for buying into women's continued objectification.  We should be working to change such ideas not be embracing them.

ALL WOMEN!?!?  Sheesh, this blows my mind.

For the record, during my transition I rarely ever wore make up and passed.  It was a luxury I know not all can afford, but I had no problem attracting guys and dating.  I saved wearing make up for special occasions so that I could look really stunning when I wanted to.

after reading the entire thread, I came to the conclusion that this thread is really nothing more than both sides of the argument (make or no makeup) putting down each other for doing makeup or not doing makeup.

It's either, none of the girls I know wear makeup and makeup is silly because _________ (sexist, unhealthy, hiding who they are, only ugly people wear it).

Or

All of the girls I know wear makeup and not wearing makeup is silly because _________ (you wont pass, you wont look as good, its not normal).

In all honesty, both arguments are F****D up.



it's that time of the month for me....i get brutally honest

:/
Natural beauty lol

It's not real.

As with so many of the conversations that go on here, neither side is interested in "hearing" what the other side has to say.

Agree to disagree folks and leave it at that.

We all are going to live our life as we feel is right for us, and that is what "is right".

Quote from: brIAnna (interalia) on October 24, 2011, 06:00:43 PM

For the record, during my transition I rarely ever wore make up and passed.  It was a luxury I know not all can afford, but I had no problem attracting guys and dating.  I saved wearing make up for special occasions so that I could look really stunning when I wanted to.

I've never had a problem attracting men since I started. But its really what kind of guy persues you. Obiviously I am aiming for surfers, military, jocks, bros, club guys...Not men who go to the renfair and play D&D

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 06:05:16 PM
:/
Natural beauty lol

It's not real.

It is a shame people have been so desensitized by the "manufactured" beauty of women to recognize natural beauty.

Quote from: brIAnna (interalia) on October 24, 2011, 06:11:16 PM
It is a shame people have been so desensitized by the "manufactured" beauty of women to recognize natural beauty.

Natural beauty like what? Give examples.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on October 24, 2011, 06:07:06 PM
As with so many of the conversations that go on here, neither side is interested in "hearing" what the other side has to say.

Quote from: Annah on October 24, 2011, 06:04:46 PM


It's either, none of the girls I know wear makeup and makeup is silly because _________ (sexist, unhealthy, hiding who they are, only ugly people wear it).

Or

All of the girls I know wear makeup and not wearing makeup is silly because _________ (you wont pass, you wont look as good, its not normal).

In all honesty, both arguments are F****D up.

Nooooooooooo.
lol.
that's not it at all.


I understand that people have a right to not wear cosmetics.
I'm not trying to make anyone "conform"

I was just saying that natural beauty is a gimmick and the truth is that hardly any of us who haven't had any surgeries look decent with out makeup on.

Quote from: JoeyD on October 24, 2011, 06:19:02 PM



Nooooooooooo.
lol.
that's not it at all.


I understand that people have a right to not wear cosmetics.
I'm not trying to make anyone "conform"

I was just saying that natural beauty is a gimmick and the truth is that hardly any of us who haven't had any surgeries look decent with out makeup on.

that's what Im reading when I am looking at all of these posts and it wasn't directed at you :)  Just the thread in general

Quote from: Annah on October 24, 2011, 06:20:51 PM
that's what Im reading when I am looking at all of these posts and it wasn't directed at you :)  Just the thread in general

Oh.
Well that's why I'm on "Team Joey"

Player count: 1


I don't wanna be put on a side.
:o

Quote from: AndromedaVox on October 24, 2011, 05:04:47 PM

Wearing too much makeup will draw attention to you and possibly accentuate more masculine aspects of your face.

Either way your face is going to be masculine, no amount of makeup is going to change that for some people.... It's knowing how to to properly use makeup. Contouring your face so it looks natural...

But hell, if anyone has seen my before pics...there isn't that much of a difference... I do contour my nose, but my nose has always been smaller. I emphasize my eyes because men love girls with pretty eyes.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 06:18:15 PM
Natural beauty like what? Give examples.

Honestly is it even possible I could give an example that would make any difference?  Anything I share it would be said "she would look better with make up".  While that might be true, it isn't true that a person doesn't look good just because they don't wear it.  I don't know where I'd get images of girls without make up.

We have been told how women *should* look our whole lives with representations of that in our media.  The problem is that those representations do not represent REAL women - maybe 1%.  If we adjust our standards of beauty to only the most beautiful then we do our 99% a great disservice and judge them to an impossible standard.  Make up is not bad in my mind, but to say a woman cannot look good without it is evidence of this 1% bias.

That same bias is responsible for the extreme awareness of self that most women face daily putting so much excessive energy and value over their appearance.  It contributes to higher levels of depression in girls over boys in developmental years as well.  It is largely responsible for the disproportionate number of eating disorders among women compared to men.  We should not expect women, or anyone for that matter, to be held to an impossible standard to be 'acceptable'.

Do I believe natural beauty exists?  Absolutely. I see it daily. Could I prove it to you? I imagine not.

Quote from: brIAnna (interalia) on October 24, 2011, 06:28:01 PM
We have been told how women *should* look our whole lives with representations of that in our media.  The problem is that those representations do not represent REAL women - maybe 1%.  If we adjust our standards of beauty to only the most beautiful then we do our 99% a great disservice and judge them to an impossible standard.  Make up is not bad in my mind, but to say a woman cannot look good without it is evidence of this 1% bias.

Real women like the ones who wear birkenstocks and look like Mad Max extras? I see them all the time around SF... I think boring.

Are you getting on the Occupy stuff in this thread what with the 99% and 1%? Stay on topic.

Everyone is beautiful. Most men like me because I look like an everyday girl... But I choose to conform to mainstram ideas cuz thats just what I do and it is what attracts men.

Do I believe natural beauty exists?  Absolutely. I see it daily. Could I prove it to you? I imagine not.

Hey, you might be seeing their personalities, not their faces.
Imagine if these people were mean-spirited and very rude.

Their "natural beauty" would die out.

I see a woman in birkenstocks, no make up and flanel and I am drawn to her.
I see a woman in high heels sporting a Tammy Fae face and I am repulsed.

Not everyone holds the same standards of beauty.

  Oh my gosh......k i think both sides (make or no make) have proven their points. In my opinion makeup is a good thing, but you need to find that balance not too much but not too little. Makeup isn't bad trust me...it's your friend!   :-*

Quote from: cynthialee on October 24, 2011, 06:52:28 PM

I see a woman in high heels sporting a Tammy Fae face and I am repulsed.

Because when I said makeup should be tried out more, I obviously implied we all had to look like Tammy Fae.
v____________________v

I'd be repulsed too lol.
"qurl wut u doin wit yo face?"

Each has their place. :)  For the day-to-day:  a good, subtle, makeup job will help you pass better... but a bad or overdone makeup job will make it more difficult to pass.  The trick is finding that happy medium.  I think if you had to err on one side, too little makeup is far better than too much.

Most of the time I don't wear any, but that's because I tend to sweat some off and look gross down here in Florida.  I also don't always care to spend the time putting it on, especially before work in the morning if I had to hit the snooze button a few times.

However, if I'm going out for dinner or it's nice outside I'll usually wear some just to look a little better.  It's a personal choice.  A little bit of makeup in the right places can go a LONG way and doesn't take more than 10-15 mins.

Quote from: Rukia87xo on October 24, 2011, 06:59:13 PM
  Oh my gosh......k i think both sides (make or no make) have proven their points. In my opinion makeup is a good thing, but you need to find that balance not too much but not too little. Makeup isn't bad trust me...it's your friend!   :-*

I don't think it's bad, lol, I just find it annoying that ppl say I won't pass or I'll be hideous or whatever if I don't wear it. I would wear it for if I was like going out all dressed up or something.

I don't care who does and doesn't wear makeup. It's a personal decision. To each their own.

As for me, when I go out I wear makeup 99% of the time. Light makeup to work and heavier makeup when I go out to a bar or nightclub. When I'm home chilling, I wear makeup 0% of the time. I don't like going out without makeup. Maybe I'm use to it. It just makes me feel more comfortable in my skin.

I'm not surprised that this topic finally came up, especially since Miki and I have talked about it in the past. I know this subject can be touchy, it is for any woman, trans or cis. I think when it comes down to it, if you want to wear make up, then do so. But do it for you. I love makeup and how I can be creative with it, but I only do it for me.

I do agree with Miki in the sense that makeup can help someone pass, but not only that, but it can help tighten a look, or bring out features that are already there. And Amy put it well, in the sense that you need to find that middle ground. This is why I encourage all of us simply to go out and learn and experiement. Do I want to have to wear makeup every day of my life, and to simpy pass? ->-bleeped-<- NO. BUT! I do want to learn how to look my best, and then go from there.

And I think that is really the crux of what Miki is getting at. If we are going to go through such a metamorphic change, then we might as well do it right. I want to learn to look my best and most polish for when I want to, for whatever reason I choose. Transition is about taking control of our lives and being our all.

Quote from: cynthialee on October 24, 2011, 06:52:28 PM
I see a woman in birkenstocks, no make up and flanel and I am drawn to her.

Yikes, I put lemon in my eyes and take tequila shots.

Quote from: A_Dresden_Doll on October 24, 2011, 08:43:55 PM
I'm not surprised that this topic finally came up, especially since Miki and I have talked about it in the past. I know this subject can be touchy, it is for any woman, trans or cis. I think when it comes down to it, if you want to wear make up, then do so. But do it for you. I love makeup and how I can be creative with it, but I only do it for me.

I do agree with Miki in the sense that makeup can help someone pass, but not only that, but it can help tighten a look, or bring out features that are already there. And Amy put it well, in the sense that you need to find that middle ground. This is why I encourage all of us simply to go out and learn and experiement. Do I want to have to wear makeup every day of my life, and to simpy pass? <not allowed> NO. BUT! I do want to learn how to look my best, and then go from there.

And I think that is really the crux of what Miki is getting at. If we are going to go through such a metamorphic change, then we might as well do it right. I want to learn to look my best and most polish for when I want to, for whatever reason I choose. Transition is about taking control of our lives and being our all.

Who is Miki?

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 09:17:35 PM
Yikes, I put lemon in my eyes and take tequila shots.

Well I was raised by a dyke mom and all her friends were the more natual types with body hair and no make up.
So my standards of what I find attractive in women is definatly diferant than the standards of the consumption bassed society.

Quote from: cynthialee on October 24, 2011, 09:35:56 PM
Well I was raised by a dyke mom and all her friends were the more natual types with body hair and no make up.
So my standards of what I find attractive in women is definatly diferant than the standards of the consumption bassed society.

My Mom is a dyke too. Let's be friends.

I don't wear some kinds of makeup because it's a real pain to remove. I already have full eyelashes, so I don't WANT or NEED to wear mascara. It's painful and damaging to take that crap off, so I don't wear it. Eyeshadow comes right off, so I go ahead and use it. Lipstick? Same deal, though I don't like the way it feels on my lips so I prefer to go without. Blush is no big deal, so if I need it I'll use it.

I occasionally need to feel pretty and "girly" and dressed up, but mostly I like to just wear BDU pants and a tank top and hit the baseball diamond. I'm an Army brat, and I revel in it.

**admits she has had a tube of lipstick in her front pocket for months**

Loreal colour riche 703 cranberry

Yes I do on occasion wear some make up. I am not 100% oppossed to make up just wearing a full face of war paint day in and day out.

Quote from: cynthialee on October 24, 2011, 10:10:44 PM
**admits she has had a tube of lipstick in her front pocket for months**

Loreal colour riche 703 cranberry

Yes I do on occasion wear some make up. I am not 100% oppossed to make up just wearing a full face of war paint day in and day out.

Do you date men?

Since I found out I was HIV+ I have not sought out a man.

Also I am married to Sevan. Granted we are technically open... but I haven't taken advantage of that in the last 5 years.

If I knew a nice guy who was ok with my HIV status and understood that condoms are a must 100% of the time, I might be intriqued by the prospect.


Why would you want to know that?

over time, cosmetics can do more harm to the skin than good.  personally, I've done many chemical peels to remove damaged skin from the sun, use skin bleaching cream as well as Rx strength retin a from my anesthetist.  This regimen, along with moisturizer (which is essential for good skin) has done wonders for my complexion.  I no longer need to apply foundation.  I've had permanent eyeliner as well.  So for me, the only "real" cosmetics I wear are eyeshadow (only sometimes) and lip color........I love big pouty lips!

wb Jamie

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 03:21:09 PM
Truth is, all women need some form of makeup to look good. Unless you are swimming or hiking, there is NO REASON not to wear it.

Enlighten me.

I disagree.  I find my SO and a lot of other women quite attractive without any, though both of us wear some once in a while.  There's a great reason not to, though.  If they don't like it or the way it looks, they don't have to.

Quote from: cynthialee on October 24, 2011, 10:38:08 PM
Why would you want to know that?

DUH!!! you'll never ever get a man if you don't paint your face!!!

omg this whole "if you wear makeup, you're stupid" and "if you don't wear makeup, you're stupid" is actually getting this thread nowhere.

How about if the makeup wearers respects those who do not wear makeup and the non makeup wearers respects those who do wear makeup?

I'm just not as obsessed with make up as I use to be and it kinda depends on what's going on... Sure, I like to get prettied up from time to time when the occasion calls for it, but for everyday it's not really a necessity

thanks annah. 
i think, and it's only my opinion, that wearing makeup is at the sole discretion of the wearer.  sometimes, it's gives us a feeling of feeling of feminine, other times is nothing but a pain in the ass, especially with cleansing and getting that ->-bleeped-<- out of our pores.  but, the decision to wear or not to wear makeup should only be for ourselves.....if we like what we see in the mirror it raises our confidence.  some only feel confident with makeup, others feel confident with minimal makeup and others feel confident without makeup

Quote from: Andy8715 on October 24, 2011, 11:13:32 PM
DUH!!! you'll never ever get a man if you don't paint your face!!!

Well maybe she's trying to attract a different kind of guy.

Quote from: cynthialee on October 24, 2011, 10:38:08 PM


Also I am married to Sevan.

Who is Sevan? Does he kick it here?

Well tell Sevan I said "Hello"

My answer to first post. I don't no how to put it on right still need help with it. Don't know many tomboys that do. Just maybe a little in the future I will have it down. New at it.

I love love love makeup! BUT, it seems everytime I go out without it everyman on the planet notices me and is the sweetest man on earth.. Seriously I get smiles and waves, and men open doors for me. I have to check to make sure my boobs aren't hanging out ;)

Quote from: Tyler on October 25, 2011, 12:23:23 AM
I love love love makeup! BUT, it seems everytime I go out without it everyman on the planet notices me and is the sweetest man on earth.. Seriously I get smiles and waves, and men open doors for me. ;)

Yeah, I notice I get more positive attention without it  :)

Quote from: V M on October 25, 2011, 12:43:23 AM
Yeah, I notice I get more positive attention without it  :)

Is that you in the avatar pic?

Quote from: Eve of Chaos on October 24, 2011, 03:29:03 PM

I think anyone who doesn't want to wear make-up is probably just being themselves and not worrying/caring about passing. which Is admirable and I envy it. you gotta live life for yourself. and if they prefer it there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

^ BAM!  :)
also , i read the first last couple of posts and i hate how we've turned to putting on make up so we can be looking good for men and not for ourselves. nothing is for ourselves, it's all for other people so we pass for them. i think trans women need to remove that poisonous stress and embrace the beauty of being ourselves. if you like to wear make up, don't do it because you think it makes you look more like a women. You are a woman, do it because it makes you feel pretty. if you feel pretty without make up, then you don't need it.

There are many reasons I don't wear much make-up, if any.
1. My arsenal of make-up is eyeliner, mascara and eye shadow. This is about the only area that wont make my face look like it's melting off in my day to day job. I work around molten plastic.

2. I can't afford to get anything else right now because I am saving for a vehicle. It's going to be a little tough if I have to cycle to work in the snow.

3. Yep, lack of practice.  Because of the first two issues, I haven't used much make-up.

4. It is a pain in the butt finding the right make-up that you like and look good in. And I just don't have the time. I wish I did. I was even given a copy of 'Making Faces' as a gift. But I have too much going on at once.

I used to be pretty hardcore about doing the whole deal every day before I left the house, but after a while I realized how much time I was spending on it and it seemed unnecessary.

Currently for "everyday", I just stick to:
-Under-eye concealer for dark circles if they're there (this really goes a long way in making you look younger and not tired and all around healthier)
-Lip gloss

And if it's something special, or I know I'll be seeing someone I want to impress, I add eye shadow (usually something sparkly), perfume, and flat-iron the most unruly parts of my hair

Past that I'd just prefer to be natural, but I can understand others' viewpoints. Ultimately I think it's up to the person to decide for themselves how far they want to take it, and how often.

Quote from: Torn1990 on October 25, 2011, 12:59:08 AM
...i read the first last couple of posts and i hate how we've turned to putting on make up so we can be looking good for men and not for ourselves...

I suspect a lot of women (trans or otherwise) wear the makeup they wear not so much to attract men, but because of peer pressure - women are often pretty anxious about how other women perceive them.

One reason that doesn't bother me is that the kind of women I associate most with (and am attracted to) are coincidentally also not that fussed about makeup :).

I love makeup, my problem is that I am still learning and haven't found a foundation that I like yet.  I am very fair with pink undertones and have sensitive skin that can redden very easily.  I also have very dry skin. I do not care for a heavy caked look but a sheer dewy look but still good coverage that is very blendable. I recently just tried Bare Minerals, yuck did not care for it, maybe it works better on girls with oilier skin. It made me look powdery and more dry

Problem is it just gets expensive to try things, so I end up not doing anything.  Thinking of trying Make Up Forever HD foundation but its pretty pricey, read nothing but good things about it though.

My cis-wife never wears make-up on a normal day. She only wears a little foundation, mascara and eye-liner on the rare occasion that we go out. I wouldn't say all cis-women wear it. I know women who don't wear it and ones that do during their normal day and, to be honest, the women that don't look nicer.

Quote from: Rukia87xo on October 24, 2011, 03:37:02 PM
   It's simple really, most ts women don't know how to apply makeup, sad but true.

Most women I see who wear make-up also don't know how to use it. The worst offenders look like clowns.

Quote from: Padma on October 25, 2011, 03:02:02 AM
One reason that doesn't bother me is that the kind of women I associate most with (and am attracted to) are coincidentally also not that fussed about makeup :).

Ditto. The women I hang out with have other things to discuss. The topic of clothes and make-up never comes up.

Sevan is my spouse and one of the androgynes here on susans.
So in a way I have a husband and a wife in one spouse.

:)

Ze doesn't wear make up hardly ever and got me without the stuff when I was a 'guy'.

I am gender fluid / non-op and I wear makeup regardless of which gender I am presenting as.  I do it as a means of self-expression, as a way of displaying my artistic talent, and because I just enjoy it. 

Wearing makeup because you feel like you have to is stupid.  Not wearing makeup because you feel the need to resist gender stereotypes or patriarchal male society or whatever other BS reasons is equally stupid.  Both are reactions based on external influence.  Why not just be yourself?  Wear makeup if you like it, go natural if you don't.

This---^.

Something I rail against a bit is feeling like other trans women automatically assume I must want advice on makeup, because "naturally we all want to wear it". I never really liked it much on other people, so why would I like it on me? It's not part of the Official Trans Woman's Uniform, it's just something you either like or don't.

Quote from: Sadie on October 25, 2011, 03:03:06 AM
I love makeup, my problem is that I am still learning and haven't found a foundation that I like yet.  I am very fair with pink undertones and have sensitive skin that can redden very easily.  I also have very dry skin. I do not care for a heavy caked look but a sheer dewy look but still good coverage that is very blendable. I recently just tried Bare Minerals, yuck did not care for it, maybe it works better on girls with oilier skin. It made me look powdery and more dry

Problem is it just gets expensive to try things, so I end up not doing anything.  Thinking of trying Make Up Forever HD foundation but its pretty pricey, read nothing but good things about it though.

I highly recommend clinique 'even better' foundation, its very lightweight yet still has good coverage.  I am a redhead with very fair skin, cool / pink undertones and I wear the lightest shade.

If you go to any department store they will give you samples and help you find the right shade for your skin =)

MUF HD foundation is good but it is a bit heavy for daytime wear, in my opinion.. the clinique 'even better' is much more natural looking yet it can be layered and blended to give very high coverage when you want that, its also cheaper and more readily available than MUF. 

Quote from: shoegaze on October 25, 2011, 09:29:26 AM
Not wearing makeup because you feel the need to resist gender stereotypes or patriarchal male society or whatever other BS reasons is equally stupid.  Both are reactions based on external influence.  Why not just be yourself?  Wear makeup if you like it, go natural if you don't.

Ya, okay. You live with my family and then say that. Sometimes reactions based on external influences make a lot of sense. I have just, just started to get them used to the idea of me being an andro tomboy. Makeup would undo my hard work in minutes. I am not experimenting until I can move. Too dangerous. :P

We make our decisions based on a necessary combination of our own desires and an awareness of the environment in which we're living. It makes sense to me not to experiment if that's going to cause more trouble than you're happy to handle, that's just sensible self-protection.

Quote from: shoegaze on October 25, 2011, 09:41:48 AM
I highly recommend clinique 'even better' foundation, its very lightweight yet still has good coverage.  I am a redhead with very fair skin, cool / pink undertones and I wear the lightest shade.

If you go to any department store they will give you samples and help you find the right shade for your skin =)

MUF HD foundation is good but it is a bit heavy for daytime wear, in my opinion.. the clinique 'even better' is much more natural looking yet it can be layered and blended to give very high coverage when you want that, its also cheaper and more readily available than MUF.

Thanks for tip I'll check it out.  :)

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 03:21:09 PM
I can't help but notice there are a lot of girls here who seem proud of not wearing makeup. What is the logic in that?

In my opinion, most ciswomen need makeup(minimal) to even look good when they leave the house in the morning. Add to that contouring/highlighting can change an andro face into a femme face. It is a trick employed by drag queens, which I feel could be useful here. You do nude eye instead of cut creases and you won't look like a drag queen. It's all in moderation. But not wearing makeup, makes you immediately clockable IMO...facial prettiness aside.

So why wouldn't people here wear cosmetics? Is it because they don't know how? Are they merely waiting for the effects of HRT to kick in? I knew I waited almost 15 months in to kick up my makeup...But I was very much into the "zero phase" prototype stage of the early transition. I didn't have a feminine mother or sister encouraging me to dress differently. My therapist had advised me not to get hair extensions and do crazy makeup to avoid looking like a "stereotypical trans"...she was so wrong.

Truth is, all women need some form of makeup to look good. Unless you are swimming or hiking, there is NO REASON not to wear it.

Enlighten me.

For a lot of Male to Female transsexuals make up (especially too much make up) can highlight the male features far more than a little make up or no make up. I used to wear far more make up in the beginning but realise it was more negetive than positive. The best way for me is a clear complexion and moisturise regularly. If you apply a little make up or none at all it's far more effective. 

Quote from: Annah on October 24, 2011, 06:04:46 PM
after reading the entire thread, I came to the conclusion that this thread is really nothing more than both sides of the argument (make or no makeup) putting down each other for doing makeup or not doing makeup.

It's either, none of the girls I know wear makeup and makeup is silly because _________ (sexist, unhealthy, hiding who they are, only ugly people wear it).

Or

All of the girls I know wear makeup and not wearing makeup is silly because _________ (you wont pass, you wont look as good, its not normal).

In all honesty, both arguments are F****D up.



it's that time of the month for me....i get brutally honest

No No No silly!  :-* I love all the idiots who don't wear makeup! Joking Joking.. To each is to own in my opinion, I like make up sometimes, and sometimes I don't!

I don't mind people wanting to wear it, but I do mind people wanting me to. It's like passive smoking :).

Quote from: Padma on October 25, 2011, 03:02:02 AM
I suspect a lot of women (trans or otherwise) wear the makeup they wear not so much to attract men, but because of peer pressure - women are often pretty anxious about how other women perceive them.

One reason that doesn't bother me is that the kind of women I associate most with (and am attracted to) are coincidentally also not that fussed about makeup :).

Very true...... except for red lipstick (that's definitely for the guys,lol)  :angel:

the biggest problem with makeup is that most dont know how to apply it or wear it.  people wanna plaster that ->-bleeped-<- on their face like they were in Kiss!  the trick is to compliment what you have to work with and using the right tones and shades. 

Quote from: Hermione01 on October 25, 2011, 06:57:13 PM
Very true...... except for red lipstick (that's definitely for the guys,lol)  :angel:

...maybe - and then only if the women are straight :). I notice this discussion often assumes women (trans or otherwise) are attracted to men in the first place, and care about whether they're attractive to men ;D.

I find some irony in the fact that this thread was still pulled up on my iPod when my dear wife surprised me with a book that contains eyeshadow and instructions on how to apply it for a more 'natural' look. I'm supposed to learn this technique and not the ' hit by a paint truck' technique. To me this is an absolutely huge step for her. And I love her even more for taking it. ^_^

Quote from: Keaira on October 26, 2011, 01:51:18 AM
I find some irony in the fact that this thread was still pulled up on my iPod when my dear wife surprised me with a book that contains eyeshadow and instructions on how to apply it for a more 'natural' look. I'm supposed to learn this technique and not the ' hit by a paint truck' technique. To me this is an absolutely huge step for her. And I love her even more for taking it. ^_^

read that magical tome!

Oh I will, trust me. And I will practice. :D

Oh, and since I'm not the only one who needs practice, the book my wife got me was from:
http://www.eyeslipsface.com/elf//beauty-school/beauty_school_beauty_manual_eye_manuals (http://www.eyeslipsface.com/elf//beauty-school/beauty_school_beauty_manual_eye_manuals)

I have no idea. At least I totally can't understand it. I want to wear makeup because I want to be as pretty as I can. Just because people expect that of women doesn't make it a bad thing. Like, hello, welcome to humanity, expecting superficial things of people is what everybody does in the first place. At least it's something I actually want. I think it's even kind of rude to act like all women do it just because people expect them to and not because maybe they just like being able to make little changes and improvements to their appearance.

Like, imagine if men acted outraged about nice cars just because other people judge men by how much money they have. "No, I refuse to want nice cars!" Did you ever hear a man say that?  ::)

In the end, it is perfectly normal and feminine to want to be pretty. Just because people expect women to be pretty doesn't change that or make it somehow bad. Expecations are totally unrelated to the issue.

Quote from: Keaira on October 26, 2011, 01:51:18 AM
I find some irony in the fact that this thread was still pulled up on my iPod when my dear wife surprised me with a book that contains eyeshadow and instructions on how to apply it for a more 'natural' look. I'm supposed to learn this technique and not the ' hit by a paint truck' technique. To me this is an absolutely huge step for her. And I love her even more for taking it. ^_^

I love her more for taking it too!

Congratz <3

Hmm...alot of blanket statements bein made here. Some wear just the right amount of makeup, some hardly none, while others way too much, so in that aspect..I think its a general overall preference as to how much or if they want to apply it.  Yeah, with some, it wouldnt be a bad idea to put some on, while others dont really need it, especially if they are just going to the grocer or to get a snack.  It all depends on the confidence of the person.       

I dont wear it because I dont need it other than some lip color from time to time

I only wear really light makeup. I don't really know why; it's just an aesthetic preference. :P I always thought my mom wore way too much blush and eyeshadow when I was a kid, so maybe I learned to be a minimalist due to her example. After my FFS or something, perhaps I'll experiment with different looks more.

I tend to take the same route (and I think for the same reason). My mom was a pretty woman but I remember always thinking that she chose the most garish shades for lipstick and wore way too much blush, lol. (Now I don't wear any blush at all, ever, and use light pink lipstick.)

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 25, 2011, 07:09:32 PM
the biggest problem with makeup is that most dont know how to apply it or wear it.  people wanna plaster that ->-bleeped-<- on their face like they were in Kiss!  the trick is to compliment what you have to work with and using the right tones and shades.

Easier said than done. I think most of us go at least two decades of our lives without makeup so we're obviously not going to wake up one day and all of a sudden be experts. It takes practice, practice, practice. That is why some of us look like clowns in the beginning.

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 26, 2011, 05:55:47 AM
I tend to take the same route (and I think for the same reason). My mom was a pretty woman but I remember always thinking that she chose the most garish shades for lipstick and wore way too much blush, lol. (Now I don't wear any blush at all, ever, and use light pink lipstick.)

Lol, I identify with everything you've just said... :laugh: ~I'm permanently scarred for life and can't wear blush either. Besides, I think fair, clear skin can be even more striking; more girls should rock their paleness. Definitely love pink lipstick; but I also have dry lips and a serious lip balm addiction.

My mom would overdo the blue eyeshadow, wear this atrocious red lip stick, and put on way, way too much blush. I would tell her all the time that she was wearing way too much makeup, and that she looked better with less; but I just never got through to her. :P Thankfully though, she did take some of my advice when it came to clothing. It's a little funny now that I think about it—I mean, here I was, just a kid (*supposedly a boy*) at the time and I intrinsically knew more about makeup and fashion than a woman of xx years.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 03:35:32 AM
I dont wear it because I dont need it other than some lip color from time to time

in your last account you stated you had your eyebrows tattooed and your lip color tattooed:

Quote from: Jamie Nicolei have both permanent eyeliner and lipcolor......makeup is perfect all day and all night long.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,102531.20.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,102531.20.html) reply #29

Annah, you would make such a great private investigator. LOL.

Quote from: JenJen2011 on October 26, 2011, 07:58:16 AM
Easier said than done. I think most of us go at least two decades of our lives without makeup so we're obviously not going to wake up one day and all of a sudden be experts. It takes practice, practice, practice. That is why some of us look like clowns in the beginning.

   Exactly, I think this is the point the OP was trying to get across in that ts women should practice makeup weather they need it or not. Once you learn the basic's then applying it becomes a breeze!  ;)

Quote from: Akashiya Moka on October 26, 2011, 08:39:22 AM
Definitely love pink lipstick; but I also have dry lips and a serious lip balm addiction.

You can get tinted lip balm. For example: http://www.burtsbees.ca/natural-products/lips-lip-balms/tinted-lip-balm.html (http://www.burtsbees.ca/natural-products/lips-lip-balms/tinted-lip-balm.html)

I know every girl is different. For me, I really enjoy it. As far as practice, its like anything else, the more u do it, the better u get.
There was a time it would take me a long time to do my face, but now I can shower,do my face and hair and get get dressed tween an hr and hr and half. Wearing make-up is a choice, for me its just part of my daily routine. Like my wife, she doesnt go out without
it., and she is gorgeous with or w/out...

Quote from: Rukia87xo on October 26, 2011, 11:16:48 AM
   Exactly, I think this is the point the OP was trying to get across in that ts women should practice makeup weather they need it or not. Once you learn the basic's then applying it becomes a breeze!  ;)

I think this is why so many people disagreed. Not every GG wears make-up why should every TG woman be told to? If everyone was so rational we wouldn't need democracy.

Quote from: Annah on October 26, 2011, 09:16:35 AM
in your last account you stated you had your eyebrows tattooed and your lip color tattooed:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,102531.20.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,102531.20.html) reply #29

is that considered makeup?  it's a tattoo....for the sake of argument, is my tramp stamp or hibiscus tattoo on the top of my foot considered makeup?

Quote from: Rukia87xo on October 26, 2011, 11:16:48 AM

   Exactly, I think this is the point the OP was trying to get across in that ts women should practice makeup weather they need it or not. Once you learn the basic's then applying it becomes a breeze!  ;)

Why?  not all cis women know how to put on makeup.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:53:41 PM
is that considered makeup?  it's a tattoo....for the sake of argument, is my tramp stamp or hibiscus tattoo on the top of my foot considered makeup?

I do believe so.  It's make-up.  Permanent or not it's make-up.  Which you got under the impression that it would be seen as make-up and not as a tattoo.

Quote from: Andy8715 on October 26, 2011, 12:56:19 PM
I do believe so.  It's make-up.  Permanent or not it's make-up.  Which you got under the impression that it would be seen as make-up and not as a tattoo.

so by that thought, my other tattoos would be considered makeup?

Quote from: Andy8715 on October 26, 2011, 12:56:19 PM
I do believe so.  It's make-up.  Permanent or not it's make-up.  Which you got under the impression that it would be seen as make-up and not as a tattoo.

I believe they call this...

Hoist on yer own petard.

:D

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:59:30 PM
so by that thought, my other tattoos would be considered makeup?

No.  You got permanent make-up.  MAKE-UP is the key word here.  You got it for it to be seen as make-up.

Quote from: Andy8715 on October 26, 2011, 01:01:58 PM
No.  You got permanent make-up.  MAKE-UP is the key word here.  You got it for it to be seen as make-up.

I had it done so I wouldnt have to put on "makeup" (eyeliner) everyday.....

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 01:07:44 PM
I had it done so I wouldnt have to put on "makeup" (eyeliner) everyday.....

Got pics?

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 12:53:41 PM
is that considered makeup?  it's a tattoo....for the sake of argument, is my tramp stamp or hibiscus tattoo on the top of my foot considered makeup?

yeah it is considered makeup. You are accentuating details to certain areas on your face. Makeup with powders and liquids are just a non permanent way of doing it.

But yes, tattoos to accentuate the eyebrows is like eyebrow liner to accentuate the eyebrows. Tattoo eyeliner is like liquid eyeliner and tattooed lip color is like lipstick or gloss. The only difference is, one is permanent and the other is not.

Quote from: Annah on October 26, 2011, 01:13:55 PM
yeah it is considered makeup. You are accentuating details to certain areas on your face. Makeup with powders and liquids are just a non permanent way of doing it.

But yes, tattoos to accentuate the eyebrows is like eyebrow liner to accentuate the eyebrows. Tattoo eyeliner is like liquid eyeliner and tattooed lip color is like lipstick or gloss. The only difference is, one is permanent and the other is not.

I like the idea of giving my face a rest. I don't look that much different without makeup..

If someone wants to do it, then thats cool.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 26, 2011, 01:09:21 PM
Got pics?

yeah, why?

in all honesty, the majority of women dont wear makeup everyday.  if you wanna look at the target audience for companies like covergirl, loreal, revlon, etc, its teenage girls.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 01:24:33 PM
in all honesty, the majority of women dont wear makeup everyday.  if you wanna look at the target audience for companies like covergirl, loreal, revlon, etc, its teenage girls.

Got the statistics/proof for that statement?

I am only going by what I see and I serve lots of women in cosmetics. None of them are teenage girls.. 20-45

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 26, 2011, 01:31:45 PM
Got the statistics/proof for that statement?

I am only going by what I see and I serve lots of women in cosmetics. None of them are teenage girls.. 20-45

i'm gonna take an asumption that you work at a cosmetics counter in a department store?  if you want the statitstics, just look at a cosmetic commercial.......very very few target middle age to older women.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 01:38:28 PM
i'm gonna take an asumption that you work at a cosmetics counter in a department store?  if you want the statitstics, just look at a cosmetic commercial.......very very few target middle age to older women.

Well yeah. But women at 40+ still wear makeup.

ok, so here goes for the trolls..........i dont need foundation so I dont wear it, I dont need eyeshadow so I dont wear it, I dont need eyeliner because it's tattoo'd, I dont need blush so I dont wear it, I dont need lipcolor because it's tattoo'd but I do wear lip color on top from time to time..........

Makeup is a pain to learn. I've been doing makeup regularly for six months or so (when I started dressing as a girl regularly) and it's still an annoying process of trial and error. Yesterday it took me nearly twenty minutes just to apply eyeliner the way I wanted to. It's easy to see why some people would give up on it.

lovin the retaliatory reputation provided by some members!!

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 04:34:20 PM
lovin the retaliatory reputation provided by some members!!

Yes, dear. You have been smoted, dealt a heavy blow. The smiters are showing their displeasure at your opinion. Not a very christian act.

Quote from: Valeriedoeswcs on October 26, 2011, 04:44:13 PM
Yes, dear. You have been smoted, dealt a heavy blow. The smiters are showing their displeasure at your opinion. Not a very christian act.

what did tekkla say before?  something about playing god instead of just studying god?  i saw that somewhere, I gotta look for it lol

this thread is about makeup. Not about Christianity. If you want to discuss the interpretative methods of Christianity, there is a forum for that.

Quote from: Andy8715 on October 26, 2011, 12:55:17 PM
Why?  not all cis women know how to put on makeup.

Your joking right? lol  :D

I couldnt quote a comment because the topic was locked, so I copied and pasted:  comment from annah in the "how tall are you guys" thread yesterday at 10:36am :
"Your trollish comments have no effect on me. I know who I am. I love my physical and spiritual body. You using this passive aggressive attempt of trolling is kinda fruitless. I don't care if you say I do not pass. I already found you out to be a chronic lier so I already learned to not take you seriously."

now apparently, annah can use the term "troll" and variations of, and it's ok but if another member uses the term "troll" then that warrants a smite......yes, I'm calling you out on this one, you cant have a dual standard!

Come on folks, this is a thread about wearing makeup.  Lets get back on topic.

No more name calling this thread is close to being locked.

I wear makeup to work, to my date last night, just about everywhereother than when exercising. It covers my blemishes, makes my skin tone look marvelous and my eyes sexy. I love it.

I especially love sheisedo cream to powder foundation.

Quote from: Valeriedoeswcs on October 26, 2011, 05:12:40 PM
I wear makeup to work, to my date last night, just about everywhereother than when exercising. It covers my blemishes, makes my skin tone look marvelous and my eyes sexy. I love it.

have you ever tried prescription strength bleaching cream or retin a?

No I haven't, but I do have a facial treatment from Nuskin that has a hand-held galvanic device for making skin look wonderful. Going to use it tonight.

Some jobs really kinda demand that a girl wear the stuff.

As I am disabled I do not work anymore. But if I did I would not wear the stuff to work.
I am was a profesional line cook.

Make up won't last an hour in that environment. I have seen the cooks line ruin a waitress's makeup in a few minutes as she stops into discuss the meals she has ordered with the cook.

i have a lot of freckles and was my main reason for using foundation.  so what I did was many chemical peels and at the advice of my esthetitician, started using the bleaching cream and retin a........no more freckles, no more blemishes a nice clean complexion..........however, i do need to use a high spf sunscreen when outside to prevent freckles from reappearing

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 26, 2011, 01:38:28 PM
if you want the statitstics, just look at a cosmetic commercial.......very very few target middle age to older women.

~That's because they don't really need to; older women are already hooked by then.... :P Everyone knows the big money is in the (much larger) anti-aging market, and makeup is a large part of that. The industry is always trying to reach the younger generations so they can turn them into lifelong product junkies too—and perpetuate their very successful business model indefinitely.

I'm a gg (or whatever you want to call me), and I have worn make up since my teens.  I don't know, as someone else here said, I like to look pretty and my best for myself and how it makes me feel.  I take pride in my appearance and keep my weight down and refuse to "let myself go".  Some people actually look better without make up, so know yourself, and do what's best for you. I know in some respects this seems shallow, but really if you feel good about how you look, your self-esteem is higher.  I try my best at everything I do, whether it's work or hobbies or sports.  So, I think looking your best when out and about is similar. When I see unkempt, sloppy, fat people, I wonder what they're thinking, and that they must not feel good about themselves.  Looks are very important to men who are looking to date.  I know it's not necessarily right or fair, but it's pretty much a fact.  I have a friend who is overweight, and dresses very sloppily and doesn't wear make up, and she is trying to meet a man, a lifetime partner.  She is on a dating site and doesn't have a picture up front, so she gets a few bites, due to her profile and wonderful personality, but when she sends them a picture, they disappear. Fair? Absolutely not. Realistic? Absolutely.  Physical attraction is a big part of romance, and no one is shallow if they simply are not physically attracted to a person, despite their wonderful personalities.  You can't help it if you're not feeling it.   A person wants, needs to be attracted to their romantic partner. I do think you can become attracted to a person, due to their personality and other characteristics, but why not give yourself a better chance.  It's so hard to find a romantic partner, that you should give yourself every chance possible.

Quote from: sonopoly on October 27, 2011, 03:51:27 PM
I'm a gg (or whatever you want to call me), and I have worn make up since my teens.  I don't know, as someone else here said, I like to look pretty and my best for myself and how it makes me feel.  I take pride in my appearance and keep my weight down and refuse to "let myself go". 

[/b]

This +1 and ftw. I don't think a lot of transwomen look good without makeup personally. It's the same as GGs...

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 04:22:43 PM
[/b]

This +1 and ftw. I don't think a lot of transwomen look good without makeup personally. It's the same as GGs...

This is your opinion and you are entitled to it.. Just don't tell people they must all agree with and follow your opinion..

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 27, 2011, 05:12:17 PM
This is your opinion and you are entitled to it.. Just don't tell people they must all agree with and follow your opinion..

When did I ever say that? I simply expressed my opinion.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 24, 2011, 03:21:09 PM
I can't help but notice there are a lot of girls here who seem proud of not wearing makeup. What is the logic in that?

In my opinion, most ciswomen need makeup(minimal) to even look good when they leave the house in the morning. Add to that contouring/highlighting can change an andro face into a femme face. It is a trick employed by drag queens, which I feel could be useful here. You do nude eye instead of cut creases and you won't look like a drag queen. It's all in moderation. But not wearing makeup, makes you immediately clockable IMO...facial prettiness aside.

So why wouldn't people here wear cosmetics? Is it because they don't know how? Are they merely waiting for the effects of HRT to kick in? I knew I waited almost 15 months in to kick up my makeup...But I was very much into the "zero phase" prototype stage of the early transition. I didn't have a feminine mother or sister encouraging me to dress differently. My therapist had advised me not to get hair extensions and do crazy makeup to avoid looking like a "stereotypical trans"...she was so wrong.

Truth is, all women need some form of makeup to look good. Unless you are swimming or hiking, there is NO REASON not to wear it.

Enlighten me.

Re read your own OP... Especially the line that starts with 'Truth is..'

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 27, 2011, 05:38:42 PM
Re read your own OP... Especially the line that starts with 'Truth is..'

Bleh. Not gonna argue with you... It's not worth it.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 05:47:02 PM
Bleh. Not gonna argue with you... It's not worth it.

Aww, why not? You've argued with everyone who didn't agree with your opinion..

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 27, 2011, 06:30:48 PM
Aww, why not? You've argued with everyone who didn't agree with your opinion..

Discoke shark decides which arguments are worth fighting.

Hurray, a white flag! Mahsa we applaud your humility.

  Lol i think you guys are taking what she said a little to seriously.   :laugh:

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 27, 2011, 05:38:42 PM
Re read your own OP... Especially the line that starts with 'Truth is..'

All I read was her opinion.

The reality is that a lot of ts need FFS due to their masculine facial bone structures. Makeup alone can sort of help feminize the harsh features a bit. Even then many times we just end up looking like men with makeup on. But it can help if you know how to apply it correctly. And you should if your goal is to look more female. I think that was Mahsa's point.

Quote from: JenJen2011 on October 27, 2011, 07:10:01 PM
All I read was her opinion.

The reality is that a lot of ts need FFS due to their masculine facial bone structures. Makeup alone can sort of help feminize the harsh features a bit. Even then many times we just end up looking like men with makeup on. But it can help if you know how to apply it correctly. And you should if your goal is to look more female. I think that was Mahsa's point.

  + 1

Quote from: cynthialee on October 26, 2011, 05:19:55 PM
Some jobs really kinda demand that a girl wear the stuff.

As I am disabled I do not work anymore. But if I did I would not wear the stuff to work.
I am was a profesional line cook.

Make up won't last an hour in that environment. I have seen the cooks line ruin a waitress's makeup in a few minutes as she stops into discuss the meals she has ordered with the cook.

If someone complains you arent wearing the right makeup, you could always stab them with that spear in your avatars hand.

 :D

Quote from: Akashiya Moka on October 26, 2011, 11:53:20 PM
~That's because they don't really need to; older women are already hooked by then.... :P Everyone knows the big money is in the (much larger) anti-aging market, and makeup is a large part of that. The industry is always trying to reach the younger generations so they can turn them into lifelong product junkies too—and perpetuate their very successful business model indefinitely.

you're correct, anti aging products are the bigger market.  I just turned 45 this year.  in my avatar pic, I'm wearing covergirl lipcolor, and a brown shade of eyeshadow.  eyeliner is tattoo'd and I dont wear foundation or blush.  I moisturize 2x daily with neutrogena.........with all the anti aging stuff I use (1% Rx Retin A, and 6% hydroquinone (skin bleach) I dont need alot of makeup because my skin cells have a good turnover rate on my face thus giving me nice shiny youthful skin.
I've had my lips tattoo'd with brown color as well but I still use lipcolor sometimes

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 08:37:01 PM
you're correct, anti aging products are the bigger market.  I just turned 45 this year.  in my avatar pic, I'm wearing covergirl lipcolor, and a brown shade of eyeshadow.  eyeliner is tattoo'd and I dont wear foundation or blush.  I moisturize 2x daily with neutrogena.........with all the anti aging stuff I use (1% Rx Retin A, and 6% hydroquinone (skin bleach) I dont need alot of makeup because my skin cells have a good turnover rate on my face thus giving me nice shiny youthful skin.
I've had my lips tattoo'd with brown color as well but I still use lipcolor sometimes

You look beautiful Jamie.

Lips tattooed? that is so interesting. I will have to learn more about that.

Quote from: Morrigan on October 27, 2011, 06:58:37 PM
Hurray, a white flag! Mahsa we applaud your humility.

Yeah...you wish.   ::)

Quote from: JenJen2011 on October 27, 2011, 07:10:01 PM
All I read was her opinion.

The reality is that a lot of ts need FFS due to their masculine facial bone structures. Makeup alone can sort of help feminize the harsh features a bit. Even then many times we just end up looking like men with makeup on. But it can help if you know how to apply it correctly. And you should if your goal is to look more female. I think that was Mahsa's point.

JenJen...thank you!

Quote from: JenJen2011 on October 27, 2011, 07:10:01 PM
All I read was her opinion.

Quote from: MahsaTruth is, all women need some form of makeup to look good. Unless you are swimming or hiking, there is NO REASON not to wear it

When you make sweeping generalizations and call it "the truth," you imply that everyone who disagrees is wrong.

By the way, it's the same way of operating that perpetuates misinformation and bigotry against minorities (like trans people).

Quote from: Valeriedoeswcs on October 27, 2011, 08:57:54 PM
You look beautiful Jamie.

Lips tattooed? that is so interesting. I will have to learn more about that.

yeah, permanent cosmetics! lol.....my lips were so swollen afterwards I looked like a damn blowfish!

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on October 27, 2011, 11:05:15 PM
When you make sweeping generalizations and call it "the truth," you imply that everyone who disagrees is wrong.

By the way, it's the same way of operating that perpetuates misinformation and bigotry against minorities (like trans people).

And young people, especially, are very susceptible to these generalizations and learn to internalize those beliefs themselves, thus allowing the misinformation to curdle within another generation.

I am a small, petite person with a high voice and usually I get treated as a women with just shaving. How ever, since I am 49 years old,most of the time I fell the need for a little concealer on my upper lip and chin and blend it in. Any further make-up tends to show my pores or have a fake texture. If I'm going somewhere, I'll use eye shadow and pink lipstick. Lipstick though,seams to accent the lines in my lips,and I have much better results with cherry chap stick or more feminine varieties of chap stick such as creamy or outra.

I tend to avoid makeup for two reasons:

1) It doesn't make the difference between whether I am read as male or female

2) Shaving daily makes makeup a painful experience. Not worth it until the hair removal is done.