Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hope you dont mind
but the thing just catch my mind,

I thought many FTMs dont do bottom surgery, either because they feel confortable enought in what they got, or that the surgery result
will give a bad result, personally. I dont mind so much but I guess the surgery also generally to bad for my taste and if they where better there would have been a bigger chance I would do it.

I just wonder if it would be the same for mtf,
would you option of the bottom surgery chance if the result wasn't that good,
or if it was more complicated?

If the outcome was "very bad" and with a lot more complications, I probably wouldn't do it.

FTM bottom surgery results are not all bad.  The results what is right for the people that get the surgery. 

I have no plans for srs at all.

As if a surgical represenation of whats in my pants defines me. It doesn't.

i fully support others following their dreams.

Having worked in medical science I am aware that any surgery entails a degree of risk.  If SRS was something I thought was not going to be worth it, I would just have an orchi and leave it at that.  That way I would at least be able to reduce my E dosage and tucking wouldn't be an issue. 
My situation would be no worse than that faced by the transmen here.

Karen.

Quote from: justmeinoz on October 26, 2011, 09:13:08 PM
My situation would be no worse than that faced by the transmen here.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that.  There are men here who have had meta and some who have had phallo. 

My hatred for my genitals was lifelong. Once I knew it was possible to remove it and it was something even I could have (not just the rich and famous), I did everything within my means to get rid of it. I was on a mission and nothing was going to stop me. Not family, not employer, not spouse, not children ...nothing. I gave up everything and did it openly saying this is me, if you dont like it ...too bad, this is something I need. I was willing to die for it. When I walked into that operating room and allowed them to make me unconscious I knew I was doing the right thing, even if I never awoke. Those were my last thoughts as I fell asleep. Contentment. I was going to die happy.

If the only possibility was a nullification, it would have been better than having that thing there. It disgusted me beyond sanity.

Fortunately, that is not the case and I have a functional vagina. The relief, happiness and pleasure is immeasurable.

I do not understand why any woman would not want a vagina for their life, for both themselves and their lovers. When a man reaches down and his hand finds its way to that silky place igniting both of our passion, there is nothing like it. When he is inside me and my body arches up to his and I look up at him and see the smile of pleasure and ecstasy on his face, there is nothing like it. But each of us have to make that decision for ourselves.

Was I lucky? No, I made it happen. It took me 51 years, but I made it happen. Nothing on earth was going to stop me.

* ... if you dont like it ...too bad, this is something I need. I was willing to die for it. When I walked into that operating room and allowed them to make me unconscious I knew I was doing the right thing, even if I never awoke. Those were my last thoughts as I fell asleep. Contentment. I was going to die happy. *

This pretty much sums up my own situation.
I said: "... and if it's the LAST thing I'll do, I will do it! [SRS]"

Please recall I had open heart surgery just bit more then one year before, and brain surgery some 4 month prior to SRS.
This may give you some idea how serious I did feel about it. I have not regretted a minute of it after SRS :-) I'm very content.

If I knew me to be totally mutilated - I can't say what I have decided.
I do have my aesthetics - and to look worse then before? I just can't say.
As it turn out I'm very satisfied with my results, so all the rest be pure speculation now.

Axelle

Quote from: Andy8715 on October 26, 2011, 09:26:02 PM
I'm not really sure what you mean by that.  There are men here who have had meta and some who have had phallo.

sure there are ftm who do the surgerys,
but as I see it it seam more common that mtf do the surgery/want to do the surgery than ftm do.
I think its because that mtf results on that part often turn out better and less complicated, at least that mainly the reason for the people I head who didnt want to have bottom surgery that the reason for it was they wasnt satified with it, or thought it where to risky or hard to get.

Natkat,
it REALLY is a relevant question to ask I think, and in this case better asked by an AFAB as yourself.
Any one MtF post-op would have been pretty well roughed up by now over it. I'm quite certain.
At least so in my experience, so thank you for that.
Posting it in the MtF forum also will have helped I'm certain. Idealists and exceptionalists, YMMV.

I have a thought that 'practicability & feasibility' of the FtM bottom surgery is not all there is to it.
Maybe FtM in general have less [hate] issues with their genitalia then MtF with theirs?
I really think so, as there is nothing much visible to get hung about [pun intended].

Also remember the [hate] issue for FtM seems far more the case with breasts [VISIBLE!], and so mastectomy is much more THE first required step - as it is a 'give away' much as male genitalia is for MtFs. As soon as one gets to wear a swimming costume and similar situation or even a lot of other female wear such as leggings often will show that 'extra skin' down there.

Just my notion on the subject,
Axelle

I'd pass. I have no problem with my genitals as they are now; transition for me was about the rest of my body more than that. The source of my body dysphoria was (and is) my face and chest (I had gynecomastia. At 140 lbs, it was pretty clear those weren't pecs under my shirt). I'm still looking forward to taking care of the former, and I am sooo glad I didn't take care of the latter last year when I was pricing out male mastectomy.

I am still comfortable using my penis. Sex for me is about fun and sharing something intense with a partner. The reason I want SRS is simply because I want a vagina more than my penis. Since it can't be used for reproduction (and I've already banked all the sperm I'll ever bother with), my only concern with SRS is whether or not it does what I need to for sex. So I describe SRS as a want and not a need, but with a very clear caveat:

When I started transition, that, too, was a want and not a need. I decided I wanted this for myself and decided to do something about it. It was only after I started that I realized just how deep my need for it really ran; I had been in denial so long it was comfortable again but I wasn't happy. I can't say whether the same will happen for SRS. It may very well be that in the back of my mind this is a more powerful need than I am willing to acknowledge simply to avoid the depression over my economic situation.

Shrug.

But if it didn't do what I needed it to do and was overly complicated and risky to boot? Hell no. Not worth it. Orchie, yes; the less T the better. Vaginoplasty? Not worth it; my drive may be lower, but I definitely still enjoy sex way too much to want to lose the capacity completely.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 26, 2011, 01:21:14 PM
I have no plans for srs at all.

As if a surgical represenation of whats in my pants defines me. It doesn't.

i fully support others following their dreams.

I'm curious why you have no plans for SRS/GRS/GCS?  is it fear of going under? finances?

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 04:56:12 PM
I'm curious why you have no plans for SRS/GRS/GCS?  is it fear of going under? finances?

SRS/Gras isn't a cure for transsexualism and I am more than my sum of parts. I am not gonna drop 20-50k for something only me and some man can see. My transition was never about my genitals. Plus, I love my penis. It is what god gave me.

If you don't approve...I don't care.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 05:10:57 PM
SRS/Gras isn't a cure for transsexualism and I am more than my sum of parts. I am not gonna drop 20-50k for something only me and some man can see. My transition was never about my genitals. Plus, I love my penis. It is what god gave me.

If you don't approve...I don't care.

hola! no need to go on the defensive, I was just wondering......I love your penis to...I got the perfect receptacle for it! lol

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 05:14:25 PM
hola! no need to go on the defensive, I was just wondering......I love your penis to...I got the perfect receptacle for it! lol

Yeah, I am not a lesbian.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 05:17:58 PM
Yeah, I am not a lesbian.

oh, now I'm confused.....u mind elaborating upon that thought?

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 05:20:13 PM
oh, now I'm confused.....u mind elaborating upon that thought?

If I put my penis in your receptacle that would make me a lez. I'm only a college/spring break lez and even then it's with cis.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 05:25:46 PM
If I put my penis in your receptacle that would make me a lez. I'm only a college/spring break lez and even then it's with cis.

whoa.......now I'm really confused.............

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 05:30:21 PM
whoa.......now I'm really confused.............

Why?

not really confusing if you think about it. She's a non op heterosexual woman.

Quote from: Annah on October 27, 2011, 05:43:07 PM
not really confusing if you think about it. She's a non op heterosexual woman.

Thank you Annah.

Quote from: Joandelynn on October 27, 2011, 05:50:27 PM
Seriously, why are non-ops even posting in this thread? The question is not about you, it's about those that do need the surgery.

Color me valid.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 05:31:33 PM
Why?

if you dont stick your penis in a vagina, then I'm wondering where that you do stick it (assuming you do somewhere)......help me out here

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 05:54:35 PM
if you dont stick your penis in a vagina, then I'm wondering where that you do stick it (assuming you do somewhere)......help me out here

See definition of "anal sex"

Quote from: Joandelynn on October 27, 2011, 05:50:27 PM
Seriously, why are non-ops even posting in this thread? The question is not about you, it's about those that do need the surgery.

Look at the last option of the poll. That gives non ops validity to post here.

Quote from: Annah on October 27, 2011, 05:59:29 PM
Look at the last option of the poll. That gives non ops validity to post here.

which are you annah? nonop/preop/postop?  if i recall correctly, you commented a few months ago that you were having surgery with mcginn in a few weeks......

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 05:57:30 PM
See definition of "anal sex"

anal sex?  with who if you dont mind me asking.....male or female...

Quote from: Joandelynn on October 27, 2011, 05:50:27 PM
Seriously, why are non-ops even posting in this thread? The question is not about you, it's about those that do need the surgery.

Quote from: Annah on October 27, 2011, 05:59:29 PM
Look at the last option of the poll. That gives non ops validity to post here.

I agree with Annah, and this is topic is in an "open" area, MTF Transexual Talk, not Post Op, open to all to post.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 06:05:47 PM
anal sex?  with who if you dont mind me asking.....male or female...

cisMen.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 06:17:36 PM
cisMen.

oh......per my conversation with mod arch, here is my take, which according to him is not a violation of the tos and I know I'll get attacked and slandered but I'm going to say it:
If I/, meaning me and solely me, had a penis, had no intention of ever having it removed, if I engaged in anal sex with another man, then I, would not consider myself to be a woman, in fact I would consider myself to be a crossdressing gay man and not a woman.

the following is a quote from Arch during our conversation:
It is one thing to say that YOU would not consider yourself a woman if you wanted to keep your penis, and another thing entirely to say that someone ELSE who wants to keep her penis is a man.

Quote from: Joandelynn on October 27, 2011, 06:23:14 PM
Yeah, well, the "surgery doesn't define" me trolling has once again destroyed a (very interesting) thread. Geez, like nobody saw that one coming.

Why can't you just click the 4th option and then keep silent if you don't want the surgery? Is it really that hard to keep quiet about the fact that you want to keep your penis, or are you so proud of it that everyone needs to know about it all the time?

Penis pride, hun  :)... Why should i have to be silent? Didn't you read the "color me valid" comment earlier. There are many different types of TS's.... Preops, non ops, post ops... I think there's more, but for now...there's 3 types.

If you're anti penis, you know what? Thats fine with me. Cuz you're not me. You'll never be me. Cuz you're you, that's why.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 06:26:54 PM
oh......per my conversation with mod arch, here is my take, which according to him is not a violation of the tos and I know I'll get attacked and slandered but I'm going to say it:
If I/, meaning me and solely me, had a penis, had no intention of ever having it removed, if I engaged in anal sex with another man, then I, would not consider myself to be a woman, in fact I would consider myself to be a crossdressing gay man and not a woman.

the following is a quote from Arch during our conversation:
It is one thing to say that YOU would not consider yourself a woman if you wanted to keep your penis, and another thing entirely to say that someone ELSE who wants to keep her penis is a man.

Oh...you tried to trap me!

Fail.

And btw, voice your opinion and I don't care. I don't care if I am not a woman in your eyes... And I have a preference for cisMen. Not hatin, just know what I like.

You can click the block feature anytime you want hun.

Lets keep this friendly folks.  We have gone far enough with the current posts and its time to start over from the beginning.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 06:29:56 PM
Oh...you tried to trap me!

Fail.

And btw, voice your opinion and I don't care. I don't care if I am not a woman in your eyes... And I have a preference for cisMen. Not hatin, just know what I like.

You can click the block feature anytime you want hun.

no, not true at all..........I'm just trying to gain a better understanding, that's all

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 06:32:19 PM
no, not true at all..........I'm just trying to gain a better understanding, that's all

PM, add me on fb....anywhere else, I will discuss it with you. Just not here.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 06:27:26 PM
Penis pride, hun  :)... Why should i have to be silent? Didn't you read the "color me valid" comment earlier. There are many different types of TS's.... Preops, non ops, post ops... I think there's more, but for now...there's 3 types.

If you're anti penis, you know what? Thats fine with me. Cuz you're not me. You'll never be me. Cuz you're you, that's why.

since the thread is "now if we talk bottom surgery", lets take it to a Freudian level, you love your penis and want to keep it, but why do you love your penis?  if you wanna reply via PM, that's fine.  I dont know you so I'm certainly not going to look you up on FB

Does a GG using a strap-on make her less valid as a woman? for that matter does a post-op have to be ashamed of using one on her GG SO,
as is widely known that MTF lesbians are very common. What does activity in private change about someone's gender?

Pre-op/non-op women have enough hateful things said about them already, there is no need to stir up more trouble for them.

Quote from: Natkat on October 26, 2011, 12:51:03 PM
Hope you dont mind
but the thing just catch my mind,

I thought many FTMs dont do bottom surgery, either because they feel confortable enought in what they got, or that the surgery result
will give a bad result, personally. I dont mind so much but I guess the surgery also generally to bad for my taste and if they where better there would have been a bigger chance I would do it.

I just wonder if it would be the same for mtf,
would you option of the bottom surgery chance if the result wasn't that good,
or if it was more complicated?

Quote from: Sarah Louise on October 27, 2011, 06:30:49 PM
Lets keep this friendly folks.  We have gone far enough with the current posts and its time to start over from the beginning.

Everyone take a deep breath...exhale...

SJ

Quote from: Valeriedoeswcs on October 27, 2011, 05:35:27 AM
My hatred for my genitals was lifelong. Once I knew it was possible to remove it and it was something even I could have (not just the rich and famous), I did everything within my means to get rid of it. I was on a mission and nothing was going to stop me. Not family, not employer, not spouse, not children ...nothing. I gave up everything and did it openly saying this is me, if you dont like it ...too bad, this is something I need. I was willing to die for it. When I walked into that operating room and allowed them to make me unconscious I knew I was doing the right thing, even if I never awoke. Those were my last thoughts as I fell asleep. Contentment. I was going to die happy.

If the only possibility was a nullification, it would have been better than having that thing there. It disgusted me beyond sanity.

Fortunately, that is not the case and I have a functional vagina. The relief, happiness and pleasure is immeasurable.

I do not understand why any woman would not want a vagina for their life, for both themselves and their lovers. When a man reaches down and his hand finds its way to that silky place igniting both of our passion, there is nothing like it. When he is inside me and my body arches up to his and I look up at him and see the smile of pleasure and ecstasy on his face, there is nothing like it. But each of us have to make that decision for ourselves.

Was I lucky? No, I made it happen. It took me 51 years, but I made it happen. Nothing on earth was going to stop me.

I concur with this 100%......

Quote from: Natkat on October 26, 2011, 12:51:03 PM
Hope you dont mind
but the thing just catch my mind,

I thought many FTMs dont do bottom surgery, either because they feel confortable enought in what they got, or that the surgery result
will give a bad result, personally. I dont mind so much but I guess the surgery also generally to bad for my taste and if they where better there would have been a bigger chance I would do it.

I just wonder if it would be the same for mtf,
would you option of the bottom surgery chance if the result wasn't that good,
or if it was more complicated?

No one should have any misunderstanding that MtF SRS is a simple procedure, it is a very complex surgery requiring much expertise. Only a few surgeons perform it. And there are some very serious complications. People die from SRS. I am not making that up. I for one had a terrible tear and other long term complications.

That said, I was in Montreal with a guy who had a phalloplasty and his body unfortunately rejected his penis. It was heartbreaking for everyone. He went through so much pain. We all did. All the women there were in pain and so were the guys. We all have to appreciate what we go through to correct our bodies. When you witness what people go through first hand, those are sacred, awe moments. I will never forget those brothers and sisters that went through that time with me.

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 06:04:24 PM
which are you annah? nonop/preop/postop?  if i recall correctly, you commented a few months ago that you were having surgery with mcginn in a few weeks......

Actually Jamie. That poll wasn't added in. It was called "none of your  business what my medical background is" selection. Isn't also uncanny how everything lately has been turned into "what defines a woman" regardless of the topic subject.  Seriously, a new forum section should be labeled that so they can post that until their hearts are content and we don't have to see it.

And keep your personal attacks to yourself. No one's impressed. Trust me.

Quote from: Annah on October 27, 2011, 09:18:53 PM
Actually Jamie. That poll wasn't added in. It was called "none of your  business what my medical background is" selection. Isn't also uncanny how everything lately has been turned into "what defines a woman" regardless of the topic subject.  Seriously, a new forum section should be labeled that so they can post that until their hearts are content and we don't have to see it.

And keep your personal attacks to yourself. No one's impressed. Trust me.

wasnt attacking, was asking, but point taken, sorry it fell through...dont give up

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 09:36:38 PM
wasnt attacking, was asking, but point taken, sorry it fell through...dont give up

Why does it matter what you think I am? Am I hurting you? No.

we all know that there are 2 different terms, "gender" and "sex."
gender is loosely defined as a plethora or variety of different characteristics used to distinguish male and female.
sex is loosely defined as a species ability to reproduce and what gametes are produced, either ova (an egg) or sperm, or in some cases, both.  in the absence of those reproductive organs, ovaries or testes, sex is then loosely based on genitalia.
Now, I have not misgendered anyone on this site.  I certainly agree that if your outward appearance and other characteristics are characteristic of the gender you claim, you are who you say you are and I fully concur.....for sex and gender are completely different.  In that regard, yes your gender is female.

where I have trouble understanding and comprehending.....and asking help for is how some can claim a sex (not gender) that is opposite their reproductive organs or genitalia and no desire for correction?  can anyone help me understand this concept so that i may be able to formulate a better opinion?

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 10:11:57 PM
we all know that there are 2 different terms, "gender" and "sex."
gender is loosely defined as a plethora or variety of different characteristics used to distinguish male and female.
sex is loosely defined as a species ability to reproduce and what gametes are produced, either ova (an egg) or sperm, or in some cases, both.  in the absence of those reproductive organs, ovaries or testes, sex is then loosely based on genitalia.
Now, I have not misgendered anyone on this site.  I certainly agree that if your outward appearance and other characteristics are characteristic of the gender you claim, you are who you say you are and I fully concur.....for sex and gender are completely different.  In that regard, yes your gender is female.

where I have trouble understanding and comprehending.....and asking help for is how some can claim a sex (not gender) that is opposite their reproductive organs or genitalia and no desire for correction?  can anyone help me understand this concept so that i may be able to formulate a better opinion?

I guess I am male to you!

Seriously, you're beating a dead horse here.

lol i like my penis lol



lol still a chick.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 27, 2011, 10:15:44 PM
I guess I am male to you!

Seriously, you're beating a dead horse here.

I'm pretty sure I've never made that statement, I'm asking for an answer to a question

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on October 27, 2011, 10:22:13 PM
I'm pretty sure I've never made that statement, I'm asking for an answer to a question

And I've declined to comment. Respect that.

i respect it, I'll start a new topic and see if others are willing to answer it.........give me credit, I'm trying, right?

Valeriedances;
I didnt knew so, if the result are equal then im sorry,
I just thought since it seam more common that mtf make it done, and since I hear stuff like, that its able to get orgasm that way where as ftm you can choose between very small one and fellings or a normal size and not much felling.. stuff like that, but if my information is incorrect then I apoligyze.
--
for everyone please dont go fight to much over this,
this thread wasnt to discuss sexualety or gender, but simple a wondering felling why more mtf than ftm made the bottom surgery, as I see it.
everything ells beside that topic is kinda irrelevant here.

also non-postup can post on threat as well, or even take it from the other view.
as long as it dosent go offtopic.

and please, dont go over with the not real woman or man fighting, it dosent really belongs to this forum.
thanks now back to topic.

    I'm kind of scared to post on this forum anymore....i don't wanna be bombarded with personal attacks for my opinion.  :icon_nervious:  I'll just say if there were a big chance i'd have complications from the surgery then i would probably pass on it. I do want bottom surgery but it does not define me in any way shape or form & that is my own opinion.


 

Everyone ignored my post.

Probably because they knew that trying to convince me i'm not a lady would be pointless.

I voted: im not planning on getting the surgery anyway / other

because i'm happy with my junk.

I voted Depends on how bad  but i think it'd have to be really bad for me to pass on it. I consider myself bisexual but i definitely prefer men over women.   

Quote from: Rukia87xo on October 28, 2011, 08:08:34 PM

    I'm kind of scared to post on this forum anymore....i don't wanna be bombarded with personal attacks for my opinion.  :icon_nervious:  I'll just say if there were a big chance i'd have complications from the surgery then i would probably pass on it. I do want bottom surgery but it does not define me in any way shape or form & that is my own opinion.

I understand the frustration, but don't let anyone try to change or stop you from who you are because of your opinion. You are who you are and no one has the power to take that from you.

I suppose so... but it's generally a given that you should at least try to find a doctor who is somewhere in the "best of the best" of doctors to do your surgery and, at that, a doctor that specializes in this kind of surgery. You don't want a newbie working on you... I don't care WHAT his credentials say!

Like, for me, I am mostly just scared of the idea of having surgery period -- of any kind, really. *But at the same time*, I can't imagine using what I have now for anything other than going to the bathroom and it's just plain confusing and weird to have thoughts of someone loving parts of you that you don't even have! So, yes, I choose surgery. :-\

Quote from: JoeyD on October 28, 2011, 08:14:22 PM
Everyone ignored my post.

Probably because they knew that trying to convince me i'm not a lady would be pointless.

I voted: im not planning on getting the surgery anyway / other

because i'm happy with my junk.

That makes two of us.

Looking for more validation yet, will it ever end?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck.... you know then.

Take care.

Axelle

PS: some notions you can shout from the roof tops and nobody will listen, guess why?

.... Well now I ask stupid but is it like a tabuu for girls not to remove there part?
I dont think its for ftm not to have bottom surgery so just asking..

Quote from: Natkat on October 29, 2011, 09:55:03 AM
.... Well now I ask stupid but is it like a tabuu for girls not to remove there part?

It depends on the trans you are asking. But for the most part, it is what it is. I wouldn't say it's taboo. I dated a non op. She was no different to me than a Cis woman I dated.

For a few, they would say it's taboo...well, you saw it here earlier this week.

"Girl" meaning?   gg or tg or what ever "girl" may mean around this place of late.

It has become a VERY ambiguous term here lately and smited for being ever so binary :-)

So, what are we looking at in the department of 'girl parts'?

Breasts, vaginas, ovaries, womb? Pretty much the wrong guess on this part (MtF) of the site.
So then are you talking about penis, scrotum and testes when referring to "girl parts' over here?

Confusing, eh :-)

Thanks for an interesting question Natkat, which ever way it turns out to be meant.
Would you elaborate for us please.

:-)
Axelle

Natkat is asking if it is taboo if a transgirl does not remove her penis.

Quote from: JoeyD on October 28, 2011, 08:14:22 PM
Everyone ignored my post.

Probably because they knew that trying to convince me i'm not a lady would be pointless.

I voted: im not planning on getting the surgery anyway / other

because i'm happy with my junk.

There will perhaps always exist those ignorant ones who will seek to engage in 'othering' tactics;
those so arrogant as to even believe they have a right to determine another's internal sense of Self in their stead.
~And Yet You Are Still Your Self, Still A Girl; I Recognize That, And So Does Every Rational Person Here, Joey.  :)

For consideration, I would like to put forth a quaint notion; and that is this: *Ahem* ...If a female identifies as a female, she IS a female. ;D ~La Fin.
I find this to be a very simple truth, and one quite easy for even a child to grasp; but then again, I don't go around judging others. :P

Edit: Oh yeah... And for the record, I am a future post-op ~ not that it matters, or makes me any more of a girl than I already am (or more of a woman than anyone else).

Quote from: Axélle on October 29, 2011, 07:39:41 AM
Looking for more validation yet, will it ever end?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck.... you know then.

What do you mean?  That a person can never be a woman as long as they have a penis?

Quote from: Andy8715 on October 29, 2011, 10:52:44 AM
What do you mean?  That a person can never be a woman as long as they have a penis?

not entirely sure what she means. She did post it in quite a couple threads. One can certainly get the assumption that is what she means.

Then again she has stated this back in August, "Sorry to say, you seem too genital bound. Ever figured out that most of sex is in the brain?"

So unless she changed her stance or viewpoints in the last two months then I am not entirely sure what she means.

Maybe she'll explain it?

Do you see a penis on a duck? Well I don't.

So what do I mean?!

If you present as female (walk like duck), act as female (quack as duck), and look a female (look like duck), you will be taken as female (must be a duck), um.

Some here sure just do not present or act like a female yet claiming to be female... never mind the looks in some avatars, that really says precious little about the person in actual fact.

That's what I mean, easy peacy, yes?

Axelle

PS: thanks for clarifying that girl-parts over here are now penis, scrotum, and testes... never stop learning, um.
PPS: Wondering now what my parts will be here?
Guy-parts, um - vulva, vagina and breasts, oh yes?

PPPS: Now I see why Jamie changed her gender to male before being asked to depart.
She now is a dude, and me too, -  ->-bleeped-<-, girls you do blow my mind :-) Giggle

Honestly, I've opened up to not putting a gender label on genitalia.
It may be hurtful to some post-ops who feel like they got SRS for no reason, but it's only fair.

A penis is a penis.
A vagina is a vagina.

Forget what you heard in health class.

::)

Quote from: Axélle on October 29, 2011, 11:22:33 AM
Some here sure just do not present or act like a female yet claiming to female... never mind the looks in some avatars, that really says precious little about the person in actual fact.

So you can tell if a transgirl here is really a female or not based on their forum postings on the internet?

Honey has it EVER crossed your mind that someone else other than YOU may form and hold an opinion?

If not... welcome to the world.

What's it say? "PC endangered - no spin zone"

If you want to call a duck a chicken, you formed an opinion - mostly shared by many, though it still is your opinion based on your perception. Nietzsche will help here in case of question.

Food for thought? - Not all things ARE equal, as some are more equal :-)

Also I'm NOT part of the Idealist, Exeptionalist school of thought as is your side of the globe, still.
I grew up in the wrong part of the world for that, hum.

Axelle

I'm all for opinions.

It's when someone takes their own opinions and try to make them as a condition for others to follow that I have an issue with

But that topic has been beaten into a bloodied pile of gelatin. I have no desire to go back to it.

Good girl Annah :-)

all that seems left here is to get either more bitchy or more philosophical about.

Lastly, another first?
Opinions tend to be polarizing it is the very nature of them. Otherwise they just some sort of comments, and ever so often on the PC, = very save side.

I like: "Say what you think, and think what what you say" (not always the winning card though :-)

Believe it or not,
Axelle

If I could change me sex on my birth certificate without getting it, then I'd probably not get SRS.

I'd prefer to get the surgery, because what's down there reminds me of my unfortunate association with maleness, and because it will make it easier on my partner when I get together for them. I'm bi, so if I date a guy or a girl, (assuming they're straight and lesbian, respectively) both of them would not prefer a penis.

for me it wouldnt matter.  I detested what I had and would prefer death over living the rest of my life without changes

I'm non-op, both by choice and partially circumstance. I don't have health insurance/coverage, and don't have the financial resources to afford possible complications of major surgery. I also don't want risk of being non-orgasmic. It's more important to me to be socially perceived as the gender I am than to have surgery. That's what works for me at this time. If something different works for you, I respect everyone's paths in how we each deal with gender dysphoria.

Z

Quote from: JoeyD on October 29, 2011, 11:25:55 AM
Honestly, I've opened up to not putting a gender label on genitalia.
It may be hurtful to some post-ops who feel like they got SRS for no reason, but it's only fair.

A penis is a penis.
A vagina is a vagina.

Forget what you heard in health class.

::)

A SRS vagina= penis.

It's a surgically altered penis in a vagina configuration. As long as people realize this, they'll be fine. But when it comes to the appearance of gender and lookin female down there...then it's essential.

Much apologies for reminding people of the reality of SRS.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 30, 2011, 03:49:32 PM
A SRS vagina= penis.

It's a surgically altered penis in a vagina configuration. As long as people realize this, they'll be fine. But when it comes to the appearance of gender and lookin female down there...then it's essential.

Much apologies for reminding people of the reality of SRS.

is this view one that is opinion or fact?  if it's fact can you provide the source?

Quote from: rock chick on October 30, 2011, 04:14:01 PM
is this view one that is opinion or fact?  if it's fact can you provide the source?

*facepalm*

Are you friggin ballin me? They modify the penis to have the appearance of a vagina.

Fact...did you like not know that? The penis is used in a vaginaplasty. It doesn't magically become a vagina!

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 30, 2011, 04:17:03 PM
*facepalm*

Are you friggin ballin me? They modify the penis to have the appearance of a vagina.

Fact...did you like not know that? The penis is used in a vaginaplasty. It doesn't magically become a vagina!

yes i know that the penis is used to create a vagina, but an "inny" is technically not an "outy"

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 30, 2011, 04:17:03 PM
It doesn't magically become a vagina!

  It's not magic it's just weird science!!  :icon_evil_laugh:

oh lordy here we go again.

Quote from: Joandelynn on October 30, 2011, 04:31:16 PM
No problem, that's why we come  to transgender forums, right? To be constantly rubbed in the face that we will never be real women. "See, those are the cisgenders, you will never be like them."  ::)

Why the hell would I be doing that?

Color you missing my point completely.

You're a woman inside and thats what counts. Gender is between the ears, not between the legs.

Quote from: Annah on October 30, 2011, 04:33:14 PM
oh lordy here we go again.

   Does it ever end?!?!  :eusa_wall:

A reminder:

Quote
15. Items under discussion shall be confined to the subject matter at hand, members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack.

Quote from: Joandelynn on October 30, 2011, 04:42:44 PM
Like it ever stopped...

I thought this was a support forum? How the hell can you call saying that a neovagina is still a penis supportive? There are people that would kill themselves if they couldn't get rid of their penis, do you have any idea how much saying something like that can hurt people?

I don't blindly support anyone and furthermore, if you are transgender you need a firm grounding in reality when it comes to HRT, passing, srs, etc.

Well a neovagina comes from the penis doesn't it? I can graft a shark fin on my dog and he's not a shark.

I am not hating here. But really, if people criticize me for not having the surgery...I should remind what srs really is. I mean we should all not be oblivious to the facts.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 30, 2011, 04:48:47 PM
I don't blindly support anyone and furthermore, if you are transgender you need a firm grounding in reality when it comes to HRT, passing, srs, etc.

Well a neovagina comes from the penis doesn't it? I can graft a shark fin on my dog and he's not a shark.

I am not hating here. But really, if people criticize me for not having the surgery...I should remind what srs really is. I mean we should all not be oblivious to the facts.

I've never criticized you, hell I dont even know you lol.  i dont think anyone should be criticizing anyone for their life choices and decisions nor should we be judging.  I mean, hell LGBT includes everyone, right? 

I voted: depends on how bad...

If it meant having to dilate 3-5 times a day for the rest of my life, I doubt I do it.
If it meant having to have the operation in 2-3 parts, I would most likely still get it.
If it meant having less depth, down to 3 inches or so... I would most likely still get it.  I think I'm a lesbian anyway.
If it meant having a result that looks ugly / nothing like a cis-female vagina, I doubt I'd do it.

Certain things are a lot worse than others.  If the rest of my life were impacted in such a way that I'm reminded I'm trans on a daily basis, I probably wouldn't do the surgery.  Even with how good our surgery is now, I'm very tempted to wait for that buccal cell procedure if it means I wouldn't have to dilate for my entire life.

Quote from: Joandelynn on October 30, 2011, 04:55:04 PM
You are wrong. What is between my ears was put there by nature with a reason, to control the rest of my body. It is a myth that gender identity and sex are independent things.

One's brain is also the thing that gets one thinking when someone was born that maybe that person was not born in the right gender.

One's brain is also responsible for someone's sexual attraction towards a gender or groups of genders. Or no sexual attraction towards any gender(s).

The brain is also responsible for guiding one towards the steps to feel comfortable with his or her gender presentation. The brain is also responsible for the feeling of gender dysphoria so many of us suffer from.

I would not disregard the brain so quickly. It's responsible for many things.

Quote from: AmySmiles on October 30, 2011, 04:54:02 PM
I voted: depends on how bad...

If it meant having to dilate 3-5 times a day for the rest of my life, I doubt I do it.

Yeah same here, i've been reading alot of post-op threads about dilating & it sounds like a pain in the ass to do and not to mention extremely painful.

QuoteIf it meant having a result that looks ugly / nothing like a cis-female vagina, I doubt I'd do it.

Lol i think vagina's in general look ugly....yet despite that i still want one.  :D

Quote from: Rukia87xo on October 30, 2011, 05:04:12 PM

Lol i think vagina's in general look ugly....yet despite that i still want one.  :D

Georgia O'Keeffe would disagree with you LOL :P

makes no difference to me, i did what i had to do for me but what i did for me is not what is for everybody and having said that, arent we all the same?  i fully support anyone and their decision   :) :) :)

Quote from: rock chick on October 30, 2011, 04:53:22 PM
I've never criticized you, hell I dont even know you lol.  i dont think anyone should be criticizing anyone for their life choices and decisions nor should we be judging.  I mean, hell LGBT includes everyone, right?

How does LGB even relate here?

Quote from: rock chick on October 30, 2011, 05:11:32 PM
makes no difference to me, i did what i had to do for me but what i did for me is not what is for everybody and having said that, arent we all the same?  i fully support anyone and their decision   :) :) :)

Then stop shooting down non ops. I know who you are.

If post ops are gonna criticize non ops, they need to know what srs really entails... If you see a penis and a srs vagina as relative. There is no argument and we are as valid as you.

As for you personally...LEAVE ME ALONE!

Before SRS, I was bound and determined to have it done no matter what. What an adventure it's turned out to be since then! If I had to do it over again.... I guess I would do it, but not without a lot of hesitation.

Obviously people without srs seems to know all about it.
It's like teaching someone how to swim without being into the water yourself.

Quote from: annette on October 30, 2011, 07:12:09 PM
Obviously people without srs seems to know all about it.
It's like teaching someone how to swim without being into the water yourself.

Umm, the information is out there. I can read and learn. It isn't some arcane knowledge or anything like that.

You aren't better than anyone else because you have srs.

Hey Masha, why the hypersensitive reaction?
I never said that.
These are your words, I'm not feeling any better or worse than anyone else.
It's a matter of fact I'm just a simple human, with the good things and faults of any other human, no doubt about that.
But reading a book about learning to swim doesn't mean you can swim.
Reading a book how to become a surgeon doesn't mean you know all about it.

Take a deep breath, relax a little and don't be angry, that's a waste of energy.

Quote from: annette on October 30, 2011, 07:45:42 PM
Hey Masha, why the hypersensitive reaction?
I never said that.
These are your words, I'm not feeling any better or worse than anyone else.
It's a matter of fact I'm just a simple human, with the good things and faults of any other human, no doubt about that.
But reading a book about learning to swim doesn't mean you can swim.
Reading a book how to become a surgeon doesn't mean you know all about it.

Take a deep breath, relax a little and don't be angry, that's a waste of energy.

I am not angry. Just stating facts...

What facts, dear?

Quote from: annette on October 30, 2011, 07:55:05 PM
What facts, dear?

A vaginoplasty is still technically a penis as srs uses the penis to create a vagina.

I didn't pull that fact out of my butt.

Hahaha, a penis without the corpus cavernosum.
At least I can go into the womens locker room with my hahaha penis.

You have made my day with your facts honey.
Keep on studying, you will get there. lol

Quote from: annette on October 30, 2011, 07:12:09 PM
Obviously people without srs seems to know all about it.
It's like teaching someone how to swim without being into the water yourself.

There are those people who do not need to experience SRS to know they are the gender they identify with. That was in no way an attack on pre non or post or anything else in the spectrum. It's just that there are those who do not need the experience of SRS to feel the way they feel.

One can be a marine micro biologist without being a deep sea diver.

Quote from: annette link=topic=108806.msg822291#msg822291 datimg]http://e=1320023103]
Hahaha, a penis without the corpus cavernosum.
At least I can go into the womens locker room with my hahaha penis.

You have made my day with your facts honey.
Keep on studying, you will get there. lol\

Oh another later transitioner, right? You know everything don't cha...well here's a diagram for you.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash2%2F33724_160889683933665_100000379048523_367873_3626424_n.jpg&hash=0f22462edf295216101ce6f65288c6569972f0fe)

I'm detecting hints of bitter resentment here towards the surgery in general, though. It's fine if you don't want it but it's not particularly nice to put down others for wanting it or having it. It's not a bad thing, you know, to get the surgery.

I don't know, just an observation.

Quote from: The Passage on October 30, 2011, 08:17:25 PM
I'm detecting hints of bitter resentment here towards the surgery in general, though. It's fine if you don't want it but it's not particularly nice to put down others for wanting it or having it. It's not a bad thing, you know, to get the surgery.

I don't know, just an observation.

I don't care what people do. But I am no less of a female because I love my penis.

Quote from: Annah on October 30, 2011, 08:11:50 PM
There are those people who do not need to experience SRS to know they are the gender they identify with. That was in no way an attack on pre non or post or anything else in the spectrum. It's just that there are those who do not need the experience of SRS to feel the way they feel.

One can be a marine micro biologist without being a deep sea diver.

Well Annah, those people do have my respect, everyone must live the life he or she wanted to live, no question about that.
Pretending to know all about srs without ever having srs is just another thing, it sounds a bit ridiculous in my ears.
BTW no one is a deep sea diver by reading the books, that will be a case of drowning

Quote from: annette on October 30, 2011, 08:20:46 PM
Well Annah, those people do have my respect, everyone must live the life he or she wanted to live, no question about that.
Pretending to know all about srs without ever having srs is just another thing, it sounds a bit ridiculous in my ears.
BTW no one is a deep sea diver by reading the books, that will be a case of drowning

Typical late transitioner comments.

Are you an SRS surgeon? Nope. Well then...

I can look up info on srs on the net...and get all the facts I need. I got the facts and am keeping my penis. Call me a man or whatever... I don't care.

i think we all need to be a little more "delicate" because arguments can arise with SRS> NON or NON>SRS if we are not careful (as they have been for the last week and a half); either of those arguments speaks against the equality and cohesion among all trans people.

SRS is a miracle of transition. Non ops are a miracle of transition. Pre Ops are a miracle of transition. The entire transgender umbrella is a miracle unto itself in this day in age.

I think we should focus on the blessings that has come our way to see society slowly, but surely, becoming more use to the idea of Gender Expression.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 30, 2011, 08:20:28 PM
I don't care what people do. But I am no less of a female because I love my penis.

Okay, so why is it such a big deal? What is the purpose of the argument? If you need to make a statement about where you are and how content you are, over and over again, then perhaps you're really trying to say that this is where you *think* you are but that you're unsure about some things.

If you browse the forums a bit, you'll find the cause of this.  There are a select few
individuals which happen to be post-op, that continue to state that they are
the epitome of womanhood, while the non-ops will never reach that status, as
women have vaginas.

Meanwhile, the non-ops insist than women can have penises, because its
not the genitals that define gender.

The resentment is for people who demand that the surgery is necessary for
complete transition, not for the operation itself.

For the record, I plan to get SRS when I am at that point and can afford it.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 30, 2011, 07:57:20 PM
A vaginoplasty is still technically a penis as srs uses the penis to create a vagina.

I didn't pull that fact out of my butt.

I don't care what you pull out of your butt, as I find the vision of that, and the other parts of your post quite offensive.

While it is true that male genitals are used to create the vagina, only certain parts are used, not the entire male apparatus.

Have you had SRS, have you experienced having a vagina, have experienced a man inserting his cock into your vagina, have you experienced a man ejaculating into your vagina?  Oh wait a second you don't have one do you, why is that?

I can assure you that my OBGYN, my MD, and they assure me that I do have a vagina and attests to this in the medical reports she produces.  Oh and for the record my husband definitely know that I have a vagina.

Please do not insult the women here who have endured the agony of GID, and ecstasy of GRS/SRS. 

Just because you may love your penis doesn't give the right to belittle and insult those who were diagnosed with GID and have been cured with the recommended and appropriate medical treatment.

Quote from: Morrigan on October 30, 2011, 08:26:54 PM
If you browse the forums a bit, you'll find the cause of this.  There are a select few
individuals which happen to be post-op, that continue to state that they are
the epitome of womanhood, while the non-ops will never reach that status, as
women have vaginas.

Meanwhile, the non-ops insist than women can have penises, because its
not the genitals that define gender.

The resentment is for people who demand that the surgery is necessary for
complete transition, not for the operation itself.

For the record, I plan to get SRS when I am at that point and can afford it.

^ +1

Hopefully the forums will settle down to a gentle roar now with those few people now gone.

Quote from: Steph on October 30, 2011, 08:28:30 PM

Just because you may love your penis doesn't give the right to belittle and insult those who were diagnosed with GID and have been cured with the recommended and appropriate medical treatment.

Hey I wasn't even saying that.

Maybe I should keep my comments/opinions to myself?

Masha dear, you didn't follow my advice about the deep breath and relax a little.

You are making things up, I never called you a man, apparently you call yourself a man, these are again your words not mine.

You're right, I am not an srs surgeon, I work on the OR occasionally but after 27 years of being post op I do have experiences about the possibilities with srs.

These possibilities are great, I don't take this out of my butt either, I don't need my butt for that. lol

I will stop my interfearing in this discussion, you won't listen, so be a female and love your penis, I don't care

Quote from: Wonder woman on October 30, 2011, 08:35:00 PM
Maybe I should keep my comments/opinions to myself?

welcome back (x5 now I think)

@Annette

So your surgery was successful in bringing you happiness?  I think you have every right to feel the way u do

Quote from: Wonder woman on October 30, 2011, 08:42:17 PM
@Annette

So your surgery was successful in bringing you happiness?  I think you have every right to feel the way u do

why do you keep coming back after ban after ban? I mean, if I was banned I would use that time to self reflect on the issues that I did that caused that to happened. I guess I am trying to figure why you keep on making alts.

@steph good points
@mahsa I'm a little confused
@annah who u referring 2?

Quote from: Wonder woman on October 30, 2011, 08:58:36 PM
@steph good points
@mahsa I'm a little confused
@annah who u referring 2?

I'm referring to you.

Zombie Queen = Symbolizes someone coming back from the Dead (i.e., a Ban)

Aphrodite = for whatever purposes

Rock Star = taken from Padma's comment about how she liked the Rock Star from one of her comic characters. She made several public announcements about your previous alts being banned. So now you are using things in her posts.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,107652.msg821320.html#msg821320 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,107652.msg821320.html#msg821320)

Wonder Woman = From the same thread where "Rock Star" came from.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,107652.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,107652.0.html) reply #2

I've been a moderator for 7 years at a prior site. Long enough to follow the traits of someone who has been banned but does not accept it.

Quote from: Wonder woman on October 30, 2011, 08:58:36 PM

@mahsa I'm a little confused

Oh well. Don't talk to me.

I'm not talking I'm typing lol
Not sure I'm understanding your views nada personal amiga

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on October 30, 2011, 08:31:36 PM
Hey I wasn't even saying that.

Oh you weren't saying that technically our vaginas are penises.  Well since we're technical... Technically speaking there are only males and females, males having penises and females having vaginas.

Locked!