Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey there everyone,

So after getting out of a two year relationship with my girlfriend I have begun dating again. Thus far, it has all been very casual, but I met someone recently who I think I might really be interested in. He is funny, quirky, athletic, and creative. We have been on two dates so far, and haven't done anything sexual yet, so I can tell he is respectful and willing to adhere to my boundaries. We also both have the same sense of humor and enjoy similar movies. All seems good so far, right?

As much as I have said before that I am confident in disclosing my trans status, the thought of it still does scare me a bit. Granted, I pass pretty well, and I am post-op, so it isn't urgent that I tell him, but I do not want to start off a possible relationship by being dishonest. He mentioned he has gay friends and actually complimented a worker at the coffee shop we went to who was wearing a "Legalize Gay" shirt, so I feel that he is pretty open-minded. But I am scared that me being trans is kind of a big bomb to drop this early on. But I haven't been in the early stages of dating (especially with a man) for quite a while. Any advice? We are going on our third date this week it looks like. Should I bring it up then or wait a few more dates?

-AV

Quote from: AndromedaVox on October 31, 2011, 09:13:46 AM
Hey there everyone,

So after getting out of a two year relationship with my girlfriend I have begun dating again. Thus far, it has all been very casual, but I met someone recently who I think I might really be interested in. He is funny, quirky, athletic, and creative. We have been on two dates so far, and haven't done anything sexual yet, so I can tell he is respectful and willing to adhere to my boundaries. We also both have the same sense of humor and enjoy similar movies. All seems good so far, right?

As much as I have said before that I am confident in disclosing my trans status, the thought of it still does scare me a bit. Granted, I pass pretty well, and I am post-op, so it isn't urgent that I tell him, but I do not want to start off a possible relationship by being dishonest. He mentioned he has gay friends and actually complimented a worker at the coffee shop we went to who was wearing a "Legalize Gay" shirt, so I feel that he is pretty open-minded. But I am scared that me being trans is kind of a big bomb to drop this early on. But I haven't been in the early stages of dating (especially with a man) for quite a while. Any advice? We are going on our third date this week it looks like. Should I bring it up then or wait a few more dates?

-AV

I would say wait. In my opinion, two dates isn't enough time to let him get to know you more. I would go on a few more dates and when you really feel things might go up a level, disclose it then. I think as long as you're not doing anything sexual with him you are okay. Just my two cents.

I'm with Jen on this.  Two dates is only enough to know there probably will be a third.  There's no way either of you know each other and you certainly can't tell he will be okay with your past just because he hasn't shown any signs of homophobia.

You have to remember, the first few dates are always about putting your best on for the new interest.  It's all about show.  So all you two know about each other is how you are when at your best. 

For me, if I was totally passable and I knew none of my friends and family would divulge my past, I'd wait a very long time to discuss my past.  I may not ever do it.  And if marriage entered the discussion, I would say I can't have kids and leave it at that.

The reason I say this is I would want to be seen as a woman, not a woman with a past.  It would be no different than a former prostitute turning her life around or someone who had something in their past that would cause others to think less of them.  What's the point of talking about it?  To show you've had challenges and overcome them?  Not if you can be stigmatized because of it.

Your past was not a choice.  Your birth gender was a birth defect that has been fixed.  Why bring your medical history into the relationship when the problem has been resolved?  But, that's just me.

Thanks for your advice. I think I am in agreement with both of you, Jen and Julie, in saying that it is too early to have this discussion of a very personal part of my life.

However, I must say I wholeheartedly disagree about the whole "never telling" paradigm. I can't possibly see how I could have a close, intimate relationship with someone who didn't know of my past. Regardless of the fact that the problem has been fixed, being trans has shaped who I am as a person. I have grown wiser, stronger and more mature as a result of my transition, and I don't believe I could even consider being in a serious relationship with someone, let alone marrying them, if I did not feel that they accepted me as a woman regardless of my past.

However, I am also a cancer survivor, and don't plan to discuss that aspect of my life with a guy until the relationship got serious/I felt comfortable enough doing so. At this point, after two dates, I am not comfortable discussing my cancer or my transition, so I think I will wait on both of those conversations. Who knows if this will even turn into a relationship, after all.

I always disclose right away, and I always get rejected right away. I'd rather be alone than with someone who can't see me for who I am inside.

Quote from: AndromedaVox on October 31, 2011, 12:56:07 PM
I must say I wholeheartedly disagree about the whole "never telling" paradigm.

I'm with you on this one. I wouldn't feel comfortable as well. And if you ask men, I think most would say if it wasn't disclosed to them that they would feel deceived. And no matter how passable you are, your secret may come out one way or another and if it does, you don't know how they will react. Sure, they could take it well and stay with you. But what if the reaction is the complete opposite and your life becomes in danger? It's not worth it in my opinion.

Quote from: Lily on October 31, 2011, 01:35:23 PM
I always disclose right away, and I always get rejected right away. I'd rather be alone than with someone who can't see me for who I am inside.

By disclosing right away, you're not giving them a chance to see you for who you are inside. Once you tell some guys, they're no longer trying to get to know you. You just scared them away. But if they get to know you first and see how much of great person you are, when you disclose they may think you're not so bad after all. :P

Agreed, Jen. I think there's definitely a kind of art to disclosing. You want the person to see you for who you are beyond being trans at first, so you can make sure A) they like you for who you are and B) they are worth your time. But I could never be in a relationship with someone who doesn't know. Hell, I can't even have a close friendship with someone who doesn't know.

I wonder, if anyone has taken the time to study "how" coming out to someone effects their opinion.

I hadn't given it a ton of thought, but a simple one: "I was born a boy" vs. "I was born a man".

I'm not inferring that straight men are pedophiles, but I think the two would offer even if slightly,
different mental images to those in doubt.

If you said you were once a boy, that infers that you transitioned young, implying an androgynous,
innocent self-image, and their first thought might be one of compassion. On the other hand, even if
more accurate, saying you were once a man, what might be their first thought could be "Wow, this
cute thing was once a hairy man-beast of throbbing testosterone".

I imagine most straight men would take more than just that. I feel however, that there are a lot of unsure
guys out there that are on the line already, but that first impression strikes a spot in their morals.

I never say I was born a boy or born a man. That's because no one is "born a man", since that is something you grow up to be, and technically I never was a man since I transitioned at the age of 14. Secondly, I never identified as a boy, so I don't say that either.

I know it's cliche but I usually go with "born in the wrong body" or "born physically male".

Quote from: AndromedaVox on November 01, 2011, 08:07:44 AM
I never say I was born a boy or born a man. That's because no one is "born a man", since that is something you grow up to be, and technically I never was a man since I transitioned at the age of 14. Secondly, I never identified as a boy, so I don't say that either.

I know it's cliche but I usually go with "born in the wrong body" or "born physically male".

+1

Quote from: JenJen2011 on October 31, 2011, 01:41:08 PM
And if you ask men, I think most would say if it wasn't disclosed to them that they would feel deceived.

And I would ask, "Why do you feel that's being deceived?  What is is about my past that affects who I am today or who I am inside?"

I think the whole deception thing is an offshoot of the idea we are not genuine and should therefore divulge our birth gender so any prospective partner "knows what they are getting into."  And I think there's also an element of guilt involved, for some at least. 

If your birth gender is so important to someone they would end the relationship because it didn't fit their expectations, then they are not worth pursuing.

I agree with Jen here..take your time. Telling to early might scare him away whereas if you wait you get to know each other better and if he is really starting to like who you are he may be better at accepting it. I can very much understand why you would tell him as it is part of who you are and is nothing to be ashamed of...but you sure know that. I think you are a great and caring person and one day you will find mr right. Good luck.


Sweetie

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 01, 2011, 12:01:15 PM
And I would ask, "Why do you feel that's being deceived?  What is is about my past that affects who I am today or who I am inside?"

Guys just wanna know this stuff.

QuoteI think the whole deception thing is an offshoot of the idea we are not genuine and should therefore divulge our birth gender so any prospective partner "knows what they are getting into."  And I think there's also an element of guilt involved, for some at least.

We are genuinely women but not genetically so. What if he asks you why can't you have children? What will your answer be? If you don't mention your past, then you're hiding something which is lying. That would be more the reason to feel deceived if/when they find out the truth.

QuoteIf your birth gender is so important to someone they would end the relationship because it didn't fit their expectations, then they are not worth pursuing.

And trust me, it is very important to many men.


This is just my opinion. For those who want to hide it and keep it a secret, that's fine. But I think we should disclose at some point before committing to something serious, mainly for our safety and secondly because it's an honest thing to do. Guys will appreciate that much more than them finding out by other means.

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 01, 2011, 12:01:15 PM
And I would ask, "Why do you feel that's being deceived?  What is is about my past that affects who I am today or who I am inside?"

I think the whole deception thing is an offshoot of the idea we are not genuine and should therefore divulge our birth gender so any prospective partner "knows what they are getting into."  And I think there's also an element of guilt involved, for some at least. 

If your birth gender is so important to someone they would end the relationship because it didn't fit their expectations, then they are not worth pursuing.

I can't possibly see how this is a plausible option for any healthy relationship. Granted, I think every transwoman has the right to tell or not tell anyone else, but from the standpoint of wanting an honest and healthy relationship I can't see how it would be possible to not mention my past.

Do I just re-write the first 18 years of my life to exclude the trans thing? How do I explain dilation? What if he asks to see pictures of me as a kid? What do I tell my family to say when he asks for embarrassing childhood stories?

So the point I'm making is not telling itself I don't believe is deception, but keeping up the facade of being a cisgendered woman involves much deception as you absolutely cannot have a true, fulfilling relationship with a person who doesn't know who you are. And being trans is a part of who I am. I'm proud of that, and would much rather be alone than devote all my energy to keeping my medical history under the rug.

Also, for reference, I have told 3 of the people I've dated that I'm trans so far. All of them reacted with "cool. you're still hot. I don't care."

Just sayin' :)

Quote from: sweetie87 on November 01, 2011, 12:26:46 PM
I agree with Jen here..take your time. Telling to early might scare him away whereas if you wait you get to know each other better and if he is really starting to like who you are he may be better at accepting it. I can very much understand why you would tell him as it is part of who you are and is nothing to be ashamed of...but you sure know that. I think you are a great and caring person and one day you will find mr right. Good luck.


Sweetie

You hit the nail on the head. Thank you! (I still don't know how to give a +1...but if I could I'd give you one!)

AV

Quote from: AndromedaVox on November 02, 2011, 09:14:53 AM(I still don't know how to give a +1...but if I could I'd give you one!)

Click on the green thumbs up under the person you want to give a +1. Put in your reason for applause and click continue. And that's it.

Quote from: JenJen2011 on November 01, 2011, 12:54:20 PM
Guys just wanna know this stuff.

They also wanna know how many dates and how much money they have to spend before you'll go to bed with them.  No self respecting woman would ever tell them that just because they wanna know.

The single element of wanting to know isn't enough for me.  I know guys very well.  I worked in a "man's world" - construction - for decades.  Until recently it was a world where men could say and do anything they wanted without fear of repercussion.  And they act VERY differently when there's no one watching, especially women.  Most are homophobes, almost all are transphobes.  And I can guarantee you the reason most want to know your past is so they know who to avoid.

Of the men who have shown an interest in me, all of the ones who knew my past were bi or wanted "something new" or had some kinky urge they wanted to satisfy.  It was very sexual to them and they treat you more like a sex toy than a person.  That is a very different experience from the men who don't known my past.  They treat me like I see men treat GGs.  It's a completely different experience.

I really don't have any personal conflict here because I'm not interested in men, at all.  That doesn't stop them from coming on to me or expressing interest and thus the experiences I noted above.

But, to each their own.  Since my personal experience tells me that disclosure changes everything, I choose not to disclose.  Let them figure it out.  And by that time, maybe they will know you well enough not to run for the door.

Quote from: Julie Marie on November 02, 2011, 10:10:51 AM

But, to each their own.  Since my personal experience tells me that disclosure changes everything, I choose not to disclose.  Let them figure it out.  And by that time, maybe they will know you well enough not to run for the door.

That is absolutely your right, so I respect that. It saddens me that your experience leads you to believe that all men are transphobes (or almost all). I think in this day and age, that is changing. I think if a person loves another person truly, stuff like trans status doesn't matter. Maybe it is a rare man who will be okay with me being trans. But I'm going to find him. Or her, for that matter. :)