Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Now, now, I know there are no such as "gendered" interests - after all they are what society have encouraged males and females to adopt. That is why I said "typically gendered" :) and I know there are guys out there with "female" hobbies and vice versa!

With that disclaimer :

Do you find that your interests and hobbies as a male have changed or remained after you have transitioned to being female?

For me, I was a huge geek (largely influenced by living with 3 older brothers growing up) - I love fantasy, comic books, video games, etc. But once I started transitioning, I find myself slowly losing interest in those typically male interests. However, I still love to play video games (Fantasy role playing games, not sports or shoot'em down types).

I ve found myself more and more interseted in typically feminine things, such as shopping, makeovers, reading romance books, flowers, etc...

YES! Before I would watch and play sports but now I cant stand them at all

I used to like doing Math, but now, I'm bad at it!!!  No, just kidding.  I still like Math.

I don't find myself necessarily uninterested in previous hobbies and such, but I have adapted new ones to my life which I find much more interesting, that are feminine in nature (based upon society).

I used to be interested in hunting and fishing, but not anymore. I think the main reason, however, is just that I'm a little to squeamish.

I still love FPS games, though. Oh, yeah. I like ones and zeros exploding.

It's only natural to see a certain degree of change. After all, "male" and "female" activities, whilst heavily exaggerated by society, come from natural, most probably hormonal, tendencies. That, and by getting closer to your true self, you kinda unconsciously want to explore those previously "kinda forbidden" areas, right?

Sounds amazing, somehow.

Nope, I still like girly things.

  Yes & no. I still play video games although not as much anymore and i still watch anime! I still luv rafting in the summer time with friends only difference is i get to wear a bikini or a tankini even!   :D


  I really get into romantic comedies now more then before and i'm finally able to express my passion for baking!  :icon_joy:

Football.  And I think it's an important thing we can learn from.  I loved playing football.  In Detroit, we played pick-up games of tackle football with no pads allowed but knee and elbow pads, no helmets.  There were always games on weekends at a dozen or so high school fields.  The people I hung with thought organized football with refs and pads and helmets were for pussies.

I could always watch any football game, and be interested in it.  I winced at big hits and felt exhilarated on big plays.  The teams I liked (Lions, Wolverines, Raiders), I felt like I was in the game.  I played fantasy football, and really liked it.

After a year on hormones, I couldn't care less about fantasy football.  After two years, I found televised games boring.  After three years, I didn't even watch the Super Bowl.  Now, I barely follow the Lions, and don't care about anything else.  And I am sure the Lions-thing is only because they are the only hometown team that has not won a championship in my lifetime, and only won one playoff game.  I'd say I don't care about them as a football team, they are just the ultimate hopeless-underdog.

My theory is that testosterone stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system, and estrogen represses it.  In layman's terms, a man can feel what he observes on the football field, as if he was in the game.  But women do not experience that, and I believe that is the direct result of the effect of hormones on the brain.

Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on November 21, 2011, 01:10:47 PM
I used to like doing Math, but now, I'm bad at it!!!  No, just kidding.  I still like Math.

I don't like it now, but maybe for a long time I confused "being good at it" with "liking it". I'm not sure...

Nope!  Still like fast cars, guns and other girly things!

Quote from: Jen-Jen on November 22, 2011, 04:20:16 AM
Nope!  Still like fast cars, guns and other girly things!

Guns??

As far as I'm concerned: still the same interests, fashion, elegance, beauty, flowers, potted plants, home making....

Quote from: Dahlia on November 22, 2011, 04:43:45 AM
Guns??

yup guns! What? They are girly right? I think so. I mean what kind of guy doesn't find a girl with a gun sexy?

Quote from: apple pie on November 22, 2011, 02:12:58 AM
I don't like it now, but maybe for a long time I confused "being good at it" with "liking it". I'm not sure...

I did the same with computers for a very long time. I've always been good at fixing them and all that stuff, and thought it was something I liked.
Then when I went to college for IT, I realized I was only just good at it, but actually hated it beyond just doing what's needed to keep things going for myself.

But as far as the things go that I actually like, I don't think they have and will change that much. I've always liked "girly" things, and I'm sure I'll discover some new hobbies that I didn't attempt before because it wasn't "manly enough", but as far as losing interests ... I doubt it.

Quote from: Jen-Jen on November 22, 2011, 06:02:15 AM
yup guns! What? ...

+1

I am still heavily into guns, military, LE, etc.

Quote from: Jen-Jen on November 22, 2011, 06:02:15 AM
yup guns! What? They are girly right? I think so. I mean what kind of guy doesn't find a girl with a gun sexy?

That doesn't make something girly... unless you're like, a misogynist, I guess.

Only boyish interest I have is gaming, and I still kept it  ;D I beat guys in streetfighter and tekken

I don't really think about it much. I like the things I like... I suppose I'm slightly more on the feminine side of things if we are stereotyping. But I've always been like that. And just cause I like historical romances doesn't mean I can't still like martial arts or rollerblading or international politics. I don't feel like picking a "side" is much fun. I take the same attitude towards interests that I do for clothing - if I like it it's for girls, regardless of what the label says.

I just do what I like. I never think "is this something girls would do?," I just do stuff because I enjoy it.

Makes me wonder.....a feminine looking and acting FTM, in transition or post transition... who's really into beauty, fashion and is a hairdresser by profession...or runs a nailsalon for instance....or a beautyparlor.....and yet claims he's  a'100% man' ....does such an FTM exist?

As a counterpart for MTF's who are into gunplay, baseball, fast cars, computers, militairy etc?

I've never ever heard of such a FTM, let alone met one in person.

Oh, and forget about the 'penis thing', there are born men with  micropenises.

I've never met any, but nothing in theory is against the possibility, so I think they most probably exist. This is part of why the concept of gender identity is extremely hard to grasp entirely, even for transgendered individuals.

Quote from: stldrmgrl on November 22, 2011, 09:02:20 AM
+1

I am still heavily into guns, military, LE, etc.

Thats awesome! i don't see anything wrong with that, and i know some CIS girls that are heavily into it too!

Quote from: pretty on November 22, 2011, 11:53:56 AM
That doesn't make something girly... unless you're like, a misogynist, I guess.

I didnt say it did! I meant it more like " besides what guy doesn't find a girl with a gun sexy?"  just as a funny statement.  I think a pink gun is pretty girly! maybe even a little too girly for me! haha or not!

Misogyny: is the hatred or dislike of women or girls, a person  who  mistrusts, or mistreats women. literally translates into "woman hater."
Commonly used to describe men who hate women!    UH NO! NOT ME AT ALL! wow, why would you say this? I am very girly and love women. what makes likeing guns turn to this?, why does it make me a misogynist?

Quote from: Lily on November 22, 2011, 01:11:19 PM
I just do what I like. I never think "is this something girls would do?," I just do stuff because I enjoy it.

exactly! well put!

Quote from: Jen-Jen on November 22, 2011, 06:02:15 AM
yup guns! What? They are girly right? I think so. I mean what kind of guy doesn't find a girl with a gun sexy?

LOL!  ;D

Quote from: Dahlia on November 22, 2011, 03:20:26 PM
Makes me wonder.....a feminine looking and acting FTM, in transition or post transition... who's really into beauty, fashion and is a hairdresser by profession...or runs a nailsalon for instance....or a beautyparlor.....and yet claims he's  a'100% man' ....does such an FTM exist?

As a counterpart for MTF's who are into gunplay, baseball, fast cars, computers, militairy etc?

I've never ever heard of such a FTM, let alone met one in person.

Oh, and forget about the 'penis thing', there are born men with  micropenises.

My roomies actually had a discussion about that the other day - we argued about what constituted a "man" and "woman".... I asked if a FTM who is into "female hobbies" is any less man than a natal male with "female hobbies."

I was listening to metal in my dates car tonight.

I was a femmie boy...so I guess I don't know how much they changed. I used to read comic books, lost interest...lost interest in video games...still into collecting kinda sorta.

I still like some stuff... But more girly overall. Rather spend my money on comic books since alcohol is pretty much for any bar I go to/

Quote from: heatherrose on November 23, 2011, 01:44:50 AM

And other girly things like Big Rigs....

I love big rigs especially the ones with dual chrome stacks, chrome grills and bumpers! I am a classic Peterbuilt or Frieghtliner kinda girl my self.  Gotta love the sound of the airhorns and diesel engine.

Quote from: Jen-Jen on November 23, 2011, 02:55:35 AM
I love big rigs especially the ones with dual chrome stacks, chrome grills and bumpers! I am a classic Peterbuilt or Frieghtliner kinda girl my self.  Gotta love the sound of the airhorns and diesel engine.

You should write advertisements for gay events, cuz that just turned me on. Especially those chrome stacks and grills :)

Quote from: Jen-Jen on November 23, 2011, 02:55:35 AM
I love big rigs especially the ones with dual chrome stacks, chrome grills and bumpers! I am a classic Peterbuilt or Frieghtliner kinda girl my self.  Gotta love the sound of the airhorns and diesel engine.

Good Lord, that might just make you a fem-tran-butch-diesel-dyke... he he

Quote from: Axélle on November 23, 2011, 03:05:19 AM
Good Lord, that might just make you a fem-tran-butch-diesel-dyke... he he

Hardly. I'm really into men's chests and men.

"Butch" does not apply to Elle.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 23, 2011, 02:56:32 AM
You should write advertisements for gay events, cuz that just turned me on. Especially those chrome stacks and grills :)

lol.. thanks Elle, nice to know I can turn you on! ;)

Quote from: Axélle on November 23, 2011, 03:05:19 AM
Good Lord, that might just make you a fem-tran-butch-diesel-dyke... he he

Thats it!  I always wondered what catagory I fell into. (Being sarcastic)haha .. wow! Thanks Axelle.  Every thing but the butch part would be correct. I'm good with Fem-Tran-Diesel-Dyke! :)

Quote from: Jen-Jen on November 23, 2011, 03:28:22 AM
lol.. thanks Elle, nice to know I can turn you on! ;)

Thats it!  I always wondered what catagory I fell into. (Being sarcastic)haha .. wow! Thanks Axelle.  Every thing but the butch part would be correct. I'm good with Fem-Tran-Diesel-Dyke! :)

You like girls? Learn something new everyday  I guess.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 23, 2011, 03:53:05 AM
You like girls? Learn something new everyday  I guess.

yes I'm into girls. Is that a surprise? You sound surprised, what did you think and why?

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 22, 2011, 11:55:14 PM
My roomies actually had a discussion about that the other day - we argued about what constituted a "man" and "woman".... I asked if a FTM who is into "female hobbies" is any less man than a natal male with "female hobbies."

I don't think you should just go assuming that that natal male with "female hobbies" has a strong male identity.

Quote from: Jen-Jen on November 23, 2011, 04:00:38 AM
yes I'm into girls. Is that a surprise? You sound surprised, what did you think and why?

Well, most women like guys so it's not that weird to be surprised someone is a lesbian  ;)

Quote from: pretty on November 23, 2011, 04:02:54 AM
I don't think you should just go assuming that that natal male with "female hobbies" has a strong male identity.

Well, most women like guys so it's not that weird to be surprised someone is a lesbian  ;)

Well it's more common in the trans community. I think we have more lezzies here... Now me, I just spent the last 20 minutes watching boys kissing, looking at boys chests/faces, and thinking about hitting gay bars and hookin up with more bisexual boys. Nothing is hotter than two men going at it.

The taste of young bisexual guy last night has turned my energy and sex drive into overdrive...My sex drive may not "function" but I am still turned on heavily by the same things.

Oddly, I still feel like a woman...despite the fact that Carnivale is happening in Brazil at the moment.

Quote from: pretty on November 23, 2011, 04:02:54 AM
Well, most women like guys so it's not that weird to be surprised someone is a lesbian  ;)

Well I am not total Lez, I mean I'm into Chris Evans! Yumm!

Quote from: Lynn on November 22, 2011, 06:36:59 AM
I did the same with computers for a very long time. I've always been good at fixing them and all that stuff, and thought it was something I liked.
Then when I went to college for IT, I realized I was only just good at it, but actually hated it beyond just doing what's needed to keep things going for myself.

Yeah, I can definitely say that Math is not just a thing that I'm good at (partly because I'm not very good at it), but a thing I like.  I once made a spreadsheet that calculated the differences between the differences in area from one n-sided regular polygon (with a length from center to corner of 1) to the next, from a triangle, up to some thousands of sides, to examine the development of π as one moves from basic, rational polygons toward the irrational perfect circle... for fun.

Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on November 23, 2011, 12:09:33 PM
Yeah, I can definitely say that Math is not just a thing that I'm good at (partly because I'm not very good at it), but a thing I like.  I once made a spreadsheet that calculated the differences between the differences in area from one n-sided regular polygon (with a length from center to corner of 1) to the next, from a triangle, up to some thousands of sides, to examine the development of π as one moves from basic, rational polygons toward the irrational perfect circle... for fun.

Going off-topic :P buuuut...
You like pi? You must get what that thing is saying below my user name :D ("apple/(113/355) (to 6 d.p.)")
And also my favourite way to calculate pi is this...
Since 4 arctan 1/5 - arctan 1/239 = pi/4, one can just then plug 1/5 and 1/239 into arctan x = x - x^3/3 + x^5/5 - x^7/7 + ...
Gives you heaps of decimal places only after a few terms!
I like it because it's relatively simple, and also generates the decimal places of pi really rapidly...

So I guess I like some of the math stuff too. But the stuff I actually was studying, I hated most of it.

Actually, I don't get it.  I noticed it because it's numbers, but I still don't understand how 113/355 relates to π.  And as far as calculating, like I said, I'm not good.  I actually don't even get what you're doing there with arctan (I remember the term from Trig, but don't get what's going on with your formulas).  I just did what I could easily to see the underlying Mathematical structure of the shapes evolving.

Oh, but I have won the Chicago Nerd Social Club π-Off for two consecutive years now, with only 42 digits memorized.  Next year, I'm getting to 65 and quitting.  After all, 65 digits of π are enough to calculate the circumference of a circle of diameter equal to the largest estimate of the size of the known Universe to an accuracy of the Planck length.  It's fair to say I'll never need any more digits and any pattern that can be expected to be found by calculating trillions of digits would be entirely arbitrary, based on its being calculated in base 10.

"An apple pie; the number π; I studied you in Math class and did all my work, but never got your digits" from Apple Trees by Ozma

"I may be a sorry case, but I don't write jokes in base 13." - Douglas Adams, on 6 times 9 equaling 42

Quote from: apple pie on November 23, 2011, 12:18:49 PM
Going off-topic :P buuuut...
You like pi? You must get what that thing is saying below my user name :D ("apple/(113/355) (to 6 d.p.)")
And also my favourite way to calculate pi is this...
Since 4 arctan 1/5 - arctan 1/239 = pi/4, one can just then plug 1/5 and 1/239 into arctan x = x - x^3/3 + x^5/5 - x^7/7 + ...
Gives you heaps of decimal places only after a few terms!
I like it because it's relatively simple, and also generates the decimal places of pi really rapidly...

So I guess I like some of the math stuff too. But the stuff I actually was studying, I hated most of it.

I hate Taylor/Maclaurin polynomials. They take up so much paper...

I was pretty okay at math but to be honest I don't miss it. It is useful but most of it is not very fun to me.  :)

(stopping it has nothing to do with transition though)

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 22, 2011, 11:55:14 PM
My roomies actually had a discussion about that the other day - we argued about what constituted a "man" and "woman".... I asked if a FTM who is into "female hobbies" is any less man than a natal male with "female hobbies."

But still..... I would love to see and hear a FTM equavalent who's painting his long nails, doing his long, girly hair and putting on make up while claiming to be as much as a man as a natal man.

More then enough MTF's who behave very masculine, including very masculine interests....and claim they're 100% women....much to my amazement....but the other way around?
Do FTM's like that really exist? That would be the ultimate male emancipation, wouldn't it?

Quote from: Dahlia on November 23, 2011, 03:21:30 PM
But still..... I would love to see and hear a FTM equavalent who's painting his nails, doing his long, girly hair and putting on make up while claiming to be as much as a man as a natal man.

More then enough MTF's who behave very masculine, including very masculine interests....and claim they're 100% women....much to my amazement....but the other way around? Do FTM's like that really exist?

Yes, and I'm not naming names but at least one or two exists in the FTM forum. I see your point but I think it's the wrong analogy to make, for other reasons...

But I don't really understand this thread, why is everyone here into such hyper-masculine things? I'm really not trying to be offensive but I don't even know many cis males that are manly enough to be into big trucks, guns, power tools and military.  :o

Quote from: pretty on November 23, 2011, 03:33:50 PM
Yes, and I'm not naming names but at least one or two exists in the FTM forum. I see your point but I think it's the wrong analogy to make, for other reasons...

But I don't really understand this thread, why is everyone here into such hyper-masculine things? I'm really not trying to be offensive but I don't even know many cis males that are manly enough to be into big trucks, guns, power tools and military.  :o

[/i]
+1!

I'd say because for a lot of people they get into hyper masculine things to make the trans feelings go away. For those cis males it may just be that they never tried to get into things like guns and trucks and whatnot, so they don't know if they like it.
For the ladies here, they did get into that to appear more masculine, and they actually liked the activities even though it didn't make any of the feelings go away.

That's just speculation of course.

Quote from: pretty on November 23, 2011, 03:33:50 PM
... why is everyone here into such hyper-masculine things? I'm really not trying to be offensive but I don't even know many cis males that are manly enough to be into big trucks, guns, power tools and military.  :o

I had a rather blunt response to this judgmental statement, but instead I respectfully decline to share it, to avoid off topic posts.  Just keep in mind that women enjoy shooting guns, women serve in the military, women are law enforcement officers; women, just as "hyper-masculine" men, put their lives on the line every single day.  Gender is irrelevant when speaking in terms of why some of us have interests in what we do.

I'm sorry, but this wasn't a judgemental statement, I think. At least, not from pretty. It's a legitimate question, isn't it? It's a fact that military service, guns and such are masculine things. Does practicing that activity make a person more male? Not at all, and thinking so is what's wrong.

In my mind, the masculine/feminine character of an activity is strictly determined by the proportion of males/females practicing it, and the average opinion general society has of them. Judgement, of sorts, but the judgement of society in general. And it does not in any way imply the speaker shares it. The judgement of society is a fact, and however good or bad it is, I think it's appropriate to discuss it.

I don't think you should be angry at her like you seem to be. Did you misunderstand her intentions?

The "definition" of the concept of a masculine/feminine activity aside, I think pretty is on to something. MTF transsexuals like us were often forced, in one way or another, to assume a male role, and encouraged, to various degrees, to partake in activities deemed as male. Natal women, on the other hand, tend to be discouraged from those activities. Since people's interests are always influenced to some degree by people's opinions and preferences, as well as their own experience, that would explain a higher rate of male activity practice in MTFs than in cisgendered females.

Also, many of us, at some point, tried hard to be male in denial or to make sure they weren't guys, or were forced into "manning up" activities by family or friends that did not approve. As a result of such a situation, they might have tried things they weren't all that motivated to do, like joining a gun shooting club, which they, or their family considered manly. Then, even if it were a typically masculine activity and they were girls, trying it was liking it, and it stayed. In a way, maybe trans women have tried a statistically higher number of manly activities as most men (since those probably don't force themselves in manly things just because they are manly as much), and thus practice those activities more.

There's another possibility that it would be an effect of difference: a transsexual girl might feel she is already out of the field of normality, or has been "hardened" by obstacles, and thus would not care as much as the average person about doing something unpopular in girls just because she likes it.

Oh, and all of those "facts" are from my own mind, so they could very well be wrong.

Quote from: A on November 23, 2011, 06:06:17 PM
I'm sorry, but this wasn't a judgemental statement, I think. At least, not from pretty. It's a legitimate question, isn't it? It's a fact that military service, guns and such are masculine things. Does practicing that activity make a person more male? Not at all, and thinking so is what's wrong.

In my mind, the masculine/feminine character of an activity is strictly determined by the proportion of males/females practicing it, and the average opinion general society has of them. Judgement, of sorts, but the judgement of society in general. And it does not in any way imply the speaker shares it. The judgement of society is a fact, and however good or bad it is, I think it's appropriate to discuss it.

I don't think you should be angry at her like you seem to be. Did you misunderstand her intentions?

The "definition" of the concept of a masculine/feminine activity aside, I think pretty is on to something. MTF transsexuals like us were often forced, in one way or another, to assume a male role, and encouraged, to various degrees, to partake in activities deemed as male. Natal women, on the other hand, tend to be discouraged from those activities. Since people's interests are always influenced to some degree by people's opinions and preferences, as well as their own experience, that would explain a higher rate of male activity practice in MTFs than in cisgendered females.

Also, many of us, at some point, tried hard to be male in denial or to make sure they weren't guys, or were forced into "manning up" activities by family or friends that did not approve. As a result of such a situation, they might have tried things they weren't all that motivated to do, like joining a gun shooting club, which they, or their family considered manly. Then, even if it were a typically masculine activity and they were girls, trying it was liking it, and it stayed. In a way, maybe trans women have tried a statistically higher number of manly activities as most men (since those probably don't force themselves in manly things just because they are manly as much), and thus practice those activities more.

There's another possibility that it would be an effect of difference: a transsexual girl might feel she is already out of the field of normality, or has been "hardened" by obstacles, and thus would not care as much as the average person about doing something unpopular in girls just because she likes it.

Oh, and all of those "facts" are from my own mind, so they could very well be wrong.

I appreciate and respect your point of view.  Being my post was the cause of this, I apologize.  However, I do not wish to indulge myself in a debate of opinion, as there is no factual conclusion.  Though, if you wish to discuss further through private message, I have no objections.  As a parting statement and to clarify your interpretation, I am not angry at anyone.

Oh, looks like I'm the one who misunderstood.

Quote from: A on November 23, 2011, 06:21:00 PM
Oh, looks like I'm the one who misunderstood.

No worries, I see the logic in your assumption :)

Quote from: apple pie on November 23, 2011, 12:18:49 PM
Going off-topic :P buuuut...
You like pi? You must get what that thing is saying below my user name :D ("apple/(113/355) (to 6 d.p.)")
And also my favourite way to calculate pi is this...
Since 4 arctan 1/5 - arctan 1/239 = pi/4, one can just then plug 1/5 and 1/239 into arctan x = x - x^3/3 + x^5/5 - x^7/7 + ...
Gives you heaps of decimal places only after a few terms!
I like it because it's relatively simple, and also generates the decimal places of pi really rapidly...

So I guess I like some of the math stuff too. But the stuff I actually was studying, I hated most of it.

I smell taylor series =0

Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on November 23, 2011, 01:47:40 PM
Actually, I don't get it.  I noticed it because it's numbers, but I still don't understand how 113/355 relates to π.  And as far as calculating, like I said, I'm not good.  I actually don't even get what you're doing there with arctan (I remember the term from Trig, but don't get what's going on with your formulas).  I just did what I could easily to see the underlying Mathematical structure of the shapes evolving.

Oh, but I have won the Chicago Nerd Social Club π-Off for two consecutive years now, with only 42 digits memorized.  Next year, I'm getting to 65 and quitting.  After all, 65 digits of π are enough to calculate the circumference of a circle of diameter equal to the largest estimate of the size of the known Universe to an accuracy of the Planck length.  It's fair to say I'll never need any more digits and any pattern that can be expected to be found by calculating trillions of digits would be entirely arbitrary, based on its being calculated in base 10.

"An apple pie; the number π; I studied you in Math class and did all my work, but never got your digits" from Apple Trees by Ozma

"I may be a sorry case, but I don't write jokes in base 13." - Douglas Adams, on 6 times 9 equaling 42

apple / (113 / 355) = apple * (355 / 113) = apple * 3.14159292... which is an apple pie to 6 decimal places :P (but I thought the fraction looked nicer if i arranged it as 113355)
I never intended to memorize the digits of pi, but one day in secondary 3, I was bored in maths class and my textbook had 50 digits of pi on one page, so I memorized all of them... that's all I still know though! (but I was far from the only one who knew pi digits around me, so no nerd awards for me...)
About the formulae stuff, I'll explain in a PM ;) otherwise this is turning into a math thread!

I was a troublemaker then and I'm a troublemaker now. Even more so as I can get away with crap now.

I used to be into playing fantasy baseball and football.  I liked watching ball games  on TV.  I coached little league baseball.  Sort out a collection of sports cards.  These are the things I noticed that I am losing/ lost interest in doing.  I still love to go bowling and reading.

Great topic! This really got me to take a good look at myself.
I seem to be losing interest in all of my hyper-masculine activities and spend most of my free time exploring more feminine related things.

Jennifer

Quote from: Venus-Castina on November 23, 2011, 04:45:26 PM


They do exist, 2 of my friends don't want to loose their "feminine" likes. They sometimes wear a skirt out, wear make-up, et cetera. It has caused some difficulties with other transgenders and with therapists who strongly believe in a strickt gender differentiation of style.

Wow, they sound amazing. :)

Quote from: Venus-Castina on November 23, 2011, 04:45:26 PM


They do exist, 2 of my friends don't want to loose their "feminine" likes. They sometimes wear a skirt out, wear make-up, et cetera. [b]It has caused some difficulties with other transgenders and with therapists who strongly believe in a strickt gender differentiation of style.

How strange?? Because very masculine acting mtf's who are heavily into masculine things AND behave masculine almost seem to be mainstream in the MTF community.
While trying to sell it off as 'emancipation'......
And of course 'no less woman than a born woman'....being agreed with by the most part of the (internet) MTF community and probably  their therapists...

So why wouldn't  a FTM wearing a skirt and make up etc wouldn't be 'a guy thing to do' then? (think of straight TV's for instance or gay DQ's)

Quote from: Dahlia on November 29, 2011, 03:54:21 AM
How strange?? Because very masculine acting mtf's who are heavily into masculine things AND behave masculine almost seem to be mainstream in the MTF community.
While trying to sell it off as 'emancipation'......
And of course 'no less woman than a born woman'....being agreed with by the most part of the (internet) MTF community and probably  their therapists...

So why wouldn't  a FTM wearing a skirt and make up etc wouldn't be 'a guy thing to do' then? (think of straight TV's for instance or gay DQ's)

You are conflating two entirely unrelated things. Trans women who present a non-femme appearance are EXTREMELY rare, to the point of practically being a myth as far as most people are concerned. Yes, there happen to be a few on Susan's, which is very unusual. Placing interests and behaviour in the same group with presentation is, well, silly. Cause they don't go together.

I'm one of those very few who is non-femme in presentation; however, I don't have particularly masculine interests or behaviour. Actually my behaviour - the way I move, walk, talk, sit, etc. - is more than a little feminine.

Personally, I've always liked girly things, with the exception of motorcycles and cars (but that's girly too right??). I don't think my interests will change in the least, prior to transition.

Quote from: Dahlia on November 29, 2011, 03:54:21 AM
How strange?? Because very masculine acting mtf's who are heavily into masculine things AND behave masculine almost seem to be mainstream in the MTF community.

+1

Well just because someone wants to look feminine doesn't mean the appearance matches the personality. I've said it before and I'll say it again, transition is largely about appearances. When I think of how similar male and females are in behavior, I largely am doing this for my appearance and nothing else. It's not like I sit around and think, "wow, I am female..." it's like the boy me now but prettier...

I remember my therapy group was largely a bunch of people who used to present as masculine men having a lot of trouble living as females. Their appearances aside(which IMO wasn't good), I wondered why they were doing this. Ironically, they lived successfully as males at one time and most were part time. They were Information technology types, Serving in the military, etc it seemed they were more into the fantasy of being a woman than actually living as one. I wasn't never masculine growing up, it was really hard for me to behave like a man. I even told a few of them, "I had dated flaming gay men who were more feminine than you"

Growing up I had always hung out with the girls and been the "gay best friend". It wasn't hard for me to live in girl world...

   Yes, i like dance video games now. I was at my sisters house yesterday and my nephews (5 & 6) were both playing Just Dance 2 and were busting out complicated moves to songs from artists like Soulja Boy and Justin Bieber etc. I couldn't believe how good they were, it was probably one of the most adorable sights i've ever witnessed. 


   I bought Just Dance 3 today for xbox and me & my roomate absolutely luv playing it!  ;D

Wait, are dance games a typically gendered activity?  I don't feel like there's ever been one gender more dominant than another playing DDR, though I think I've only ever seen guys do that thing where they grab onto the bar on the back and use their feet like fingers to clear really hard songs.  That's always so lame to me.  Of all games to be concerned about winning over having fun...

Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on November 29, 2011, 07:43:03 PM
Wait, are dance games a typically gendered activity?

    Yeah sorta, you don't see many guys dancing (straight men think it's gay lol) unless it's to impress a girl or something.   

    I used play more guyish video games like fps type of games.  :icon_userfriendly:

Quote from: Rukia87xo on November 29, 2011, 11:32:46 PM

    Yeah sorta, you don't see many guys dancing (straight men think it's gay lol) unless it's to impress a girl or something.   

Hey I was a gay and I used to dance before...

you don't see many guys dancing (straight men think it's gay

You are aware that Mikhail Baryshnikov got with more women then any 10 rock bands ever did.  Or, to pick on the other side of the cultural divide, I'd love for you to go down to where the B-Boys are doing their thing as ask them how gay they are.  That's just some white-crackerassed protestant suburban conformity stereotype.  Guys dance, matter of fact most of the world's most famous dancers are men, not women.  Some cultures only the men dance.  The only people who don't dance are the tragically repressed.

I think far too many of you know a world constructed on and for TV and nothing like reality where none of this stuff seems to exist on these ridged and uncrossable lines. 

Quote from: tekla on November 30, 2011, 12:45:17 AM


I think far too many of you know a world constructed on and for TV and nothing like reality where none of this stuff seems to exist on these ridged and uncrossable lines.

There's plenty of straight men who love to dance. I always meet them at clubs and stuff.

Half of the Deadheads were guys who liked to dance - not well, I'll give you that, but they were trying.

Quote from: tekla on November 30, 2011, 01:09:21 AM
Half of the Deadheads were guys who liked to dance - not well, I'll give you that, but they were trying.

Didn't they become the Burning Men guys? Thats what happened when all the kids in high school who listened to Phish grew up. They all are into Juno Reactor now. They have this store in the upper Haight that is all techno and stuff. I miss that place, most trips to SF involve going to Church/Castro and NOT LEAVING.

I am sure you know from my fb page, I am really into metal. Is that considered masculine? I remember being a gay guy and I was the only gay man I knew who liked metal.

  Back on topic:  Nope, I just do those same things better!   π
  Joelene

my interests really have never changed
if it is geeky/nerdy then I like it.
video games, chess, reading etc...

:)

Never been into sports, watching or playing.  Although I will watch UFC (GSP is AMAZINGLY hot lol).   

I have always been considered 'different' by those who know me, but most people attribute that to my
nerd status. 

Hugs
Zaria

researchers know that if they put a group of little girls together they will mostly sit, play  and share quietly while a group of boys will be aggressive, competitive and noisy so its logical that estogen or testosterone will change behaviour or more likely allow it to come out.

When i was in recovery back in the 80's and 90's we had sober dance clubs back in phila pa and many men danced alone.. it was about exercise and there were no gays there that i ever met or heard about.

Quote from: Sarah7 on November 29, 2011, 09:46:21 AM
You are conflating two entirely unrelated things. Trans women who present a non-femme appearance are EXTREMELY rare, to the point of practically being a myth as far as most people are concerned. Yes, there happen to be a few on Susan's, which is very unusual. Placing interests and behaviour in the same group with presentation is, well, silly. Cause they don't go together.

I'm one of those very few who is non-femme in presentation; however, I don't have particularly masculine interests or behaviour. Actually my behaviour - the way I move, walk, talk, sit, etc. - is more than a little feminine.

Well, ok, let's put it this way: wouldn't it be nice to talk to a FTM who runs a nail or beautyparlor and claims it's a manly thing to do?
In comparison to MTF's who are heavily into guns, weapons, gunplay, baseball, big trucks and fast cars (and claims that's a girly to do?)

My interests have changed dramatically, I use to LOVE football, now I only put up with it at work since I work at a sports bar. I Still love basketball. One thing I do tons more is plan outfits. I already started planning my outfit for Coachella 2012 and I never would have done this as a boy at all. I use to be really into video games. Now the farthest I really go Is angry birds. Ive always loved throwing on a pottery wheel (still great at it too!)



I'm sure I'll think of other stuff and I'll Post it later

I am really into metal. Is that considered masculine?

The shortest, most non-existent lines for women's bathrooms are at a Rush or Dream Theater show.

Quote from: Dahlia on November 30, 2011, 06:25:31 AM
Well, ok, let's put it this way: wouldn't it be nice to talk to a FTM who runs a nail or beautyparlor and claims it's a manly thing to do?
In comparison to MTF's who are heavily into guns, weapons, gunplay, baseball, big trucks and fast cars (and claims that's a girly to do?)

Yes, that's a much better way to put it. Can't really help with an answer though.

Perhaps you should go ask the guys if you really want to know. They don't come into this side of the forum very often.

I still like most of my old interests, but they were pretty fem by American Standards. I do enjoy not feeling like I need to hide them so much. I never cared for team sports, but loved working out, swimming, biking, and ballet. I enjoyed building and fixing things and I'll be taking a class in Gas Welding class this spring more for the metals arts aspect.

What I have noticed is that guys will now bring me busted stuff and sheepishly ask me to mend it-- like I was their mother or something-- as their haven't the hand-eye skills, nor the patience these days. This has been very unexpected!

Lexi-

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 30, 2011, 12:52:53 AM
There's plenty of straight men who love to dance. I always meet them at clubs and stuff.

  Yeah but they're trying to impress women by showing off their moves that's why they go to those dance club's in the first place, to pick up women lolz. I don't think your gonna find to many guys who like to dance just for the fun of it unless they're like a professorial dancer or in the music/entertainment business then yeah 4sure. There are straight guys who love to dance just for the fun of it but majority wise not so much lol. 

  I love to dance now way more then when i was living as a guy!  ;D

Quote from: Rukia87xo on November 30, 2011, 02:47:14 PM


  I love to dance now way more then when i was living as a guy!  ;D

My friend and I went to the Castro one night to go dancing. This old straight man started humpin me when I was dancing. Like we had went to the club to avoid creepy old men...only to be accosted by them.

At least when I was gay, I could choose who humped me.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 30, 2011, 03:46:25 PM
My friend and I went to the Castro one night to go dancing. This old straight man started humpin me when I was dancing. Like we had went to the club to avoid creepy old men...only to be accosted by them.

At least when I was gay, I could choose who humped me.

It is amusing how you always refer to Castro for your evidence and stories.  :D

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 30, 2011, 08:06:10 PM
It is amusing how you always refer to Castro for your evidence and stories.  :D

If you go down there this weekend, you might run into me... I frequent all the bars and conduct all my "business" there. I also work in interior decorating...

I kick it at the Mixx & Badlands if I want a hookup, Qbar for warming up, the LOOKOUT for socializing, Cafe Flores, DIESEL, etc.

My ex frequents BADLANDS... OMG DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAA

I realised today that despite my interests always being "feminine" for the most part, there are a few typically "masculine" things I enjoy. Take for example cars, I absolutely love cars, and driving. However, it seems that no matter how much I enjoy masculine things, or how hard I try to enjoy them, they seem to just not be for me. All things masculine I'm absolutely awful at! Going back to the example of cars, today I attempted to just change the oil on my rather expensive sports car. Very stupid, because apparently I've filled it too far and likely need a mechanic to replace a bunch of things (which will be extremely expensive!).

Again, I suppose my interests will never change. Because apparently typically "masculine" interests and me just don't seem to work.  I may be the only person like this, but I guess it makes it more obvious to me that I'm not male after all. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.purezc.com%2Fforums%2Fhtml%2Femoticons%2Ficon_shrug.gif&hash=b711259ce3fd91f30ef378aa3b24487d5c4a6c94)

Quote from: Dahlia on November 30, 2011, 06:25:31 AM
Well, ok, let's put it this way: wouldn't it be nice to talk to a FTM who runs a nail or beautyparlor and claims it's a manly thing to do?
In comparison to MTF's who are heavily into guns, weapons, gunplay, baseball, big trucks and fast cars (and claims that's a girly to do?)

Such FTM's simply don't exist....so how on earth can it be that there are so many MTF's with very, very, very masculine interests AND claim to be 'no less woman than a born woman'?? But are very, very masculine by nature?

So, I've refrained from this whole "Why are MTFs all butch, but FTMs aren't femme" discussion because it's riddled with ridiculous stereotypes, but it seems like nobody's going to state the obvious here.  Regardless of what Western nation you're from, the vast majority of us here are from Western nations, which are generally extremely masculine, as cultures that have evolved from masculine economies and masculine religions.  I just got in a massive argument with a bunch of burlesque dancers who insisted that dancing isn't about expression as much as it's about competition.  They then went on to make sports analogies about their art form.  These are all women who were born women, whose mode of expression is based around extremely feminine sexuality.  Why are there so many masculine MTFs?  Because it's "good" to be masculine; it's empowering!  Why are there so few feminine FTMs?  Because it's "bad" to be feminine; it's subservient!

Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on December 01, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
So, I've refrained from this whole "Why are MTFs all butch, but FTMs aren't femme" discussion because it's riddled with ridiculous stereotypes, but it seems like nobody's going to state the obvious here.  Regardless of what Western nation you're from, the vast majority of us here are from Western nations, which are generally extremely masculine, as cultures that have evolved from masculine economies and masculine religions.  I just got in a massive argument with a bunch of burlesque dancers who insisted that dancing isn't about expression as much as it's about competition.  They then went on to make sports analogies about their art form.  These are all women who were born women, whose mode of expression is based around extremely feminine sexuality.  Why are there so many masculine MTFs?  Because it's "good" to be masculine; it's empowering!  Why are there so few feminine FTMs?  Because it's "bad" to be feminine; it's subservient!

Wait, what, we live in a masculine culture?

I guess if you ignore all the women... and all the feminine things that, you know, women do... :-\

Yes, there is obviously not a complete lack of femininity and perhaps I'm mistaken about what's masculine and what's feminine, but to me, competition is masculine and cooperation is feminine.  To me, two major religions in which there is a single all-everything being that created the Universe, with a male gender and passages in their respective holy books that imply that women and men who are effeminate should be oppressed (not to mention the creation story of one being based around the corruption of man being caused by a woman, a secondary aspect of the true creation, man) being a cornerstone of the foundations of these cultures, would be masculine.  Of course, I could be completely mistaken.  Actually, forget I said anything.  I shouldn't have in the first place.  I should honestly stop saying anything to anyone about anything because it's automatically wrong on some or most levels.

Quote from: Maya Zimmerman on December 01, 2011, 05:04:49 PM
So, I've refrained from this whole "Why are MTFs all butch, but FTMs aren't femme" discussion because it's riddled with ridiculous stereotypes, but it seems like nobody's going to state the obvious here.  Regardless of what Western nation you're from, the vast majority of us here are from Western nations, which are generally extremely masculine, as cultures that have evolved from masculine economies and masculine religions.  I just got in a massive argument with a bunch of burlesque dancers who insisted that dancing isn't about expression as much as it's about competition.  They then went on to make sports analogies about their art form.  These are all women who were born women, whose mode of expression is based around extremely feminine sexuality.  Why are there so many masculine MTFs?  Because it's "good" to be masculine; it's empowering!  Why are there so few feminine FTMs?  Because it's "bad" to be feminine; it's subservient!

I'm from the Netherlands and Dutch (straight) men happen to be 'feminized' to some degree  over the course of 4 decades of emancipation.
Most of them don't think it's 'good' to be (overly) masculine and most of them don't think it's bad to be  'subservient'.

(Straight) women aren't 'masculinized'  (at all)

Yes, emancipation and feminism led to that and it's a good thing.

Yet it's a lot of Dutch MTF's who are (and act) very masculine in terms of interests too....

Have you ever watched the Spanish movie  'All about my mother' by Pedro Aldomovar? It's about a MTF father who turns out very masculine acting (and looking)

There's one line that's typical 'stereotyping' an MTF:

her (GG) ex wife meets up with her again after years and years, seeing and noticing her acting very masculine she looks in awe, wonders and says: 'how can you be so macho with a set of tits like that'?

Mind you, Pedro Aldomovar is very, very openminded....

Quote from: Dahlia on December 02, 2011, 03:55:50 AM
I'm from the Netherlands and Dutch (straight) men happen to be 'feminized' to some degree  over the course of 4 decades of emancipation.
Most of them don't think it's 'good' to be (overly) masculine and most of them don't think it's bad to be  'subservient'.

(Straight) women aren't 'masculinized'  (at all)

Yes, emancipation and feminism led to that and it's a good thing.

Yet it's a lot of Dutch MTF's who are (and act) very masculine in terms of interests too....

Have you ever watched the Spanish movie  'All about my mother' by Pedro Aldomovar? It's about a MTF father who turns out very masculine acting (and looking)

There's one line that's typical 'stereotyping' an MTF:

her (GG) ex wife meets up with her again after years and years, seeing and noticing her acting very masculine she looks in awe, wonders and says: 'how can you be so macho with a set of tits like that'?

Mind you, Pedro Aldomovar is very, very openminded....

Mostly, I can't fathom why someone would want to go through all the pains of transition just to act and be like a man anyway. They don't want to wear makeup and they don't pay attention to fashion. They're probably just going to date a woman anyway. They still do mostly manly hobbies. So they're only making it harder to be who they are by transitioning, when transitioning was supposed to be making the body match the personality. I don't understand what the point of that is.

Quote from: pretty on December 02, 2011, 10:17:59 AM

Mostly, I can't fathom why someone would want to go through all the pains of transition just to act and be like a man anyway. They don't want to wear makeup and they don't pay attention to fashion. They're probably just going to date a woman anyway. They still do mostly manly hobbies. So they're only making it harder to be who they are by transitioning, when transitioning was supposed to be making the body match the personality. I don't understand what the point of that is.

I would love to have the ability to pass without makeup or fashion, and had I been born a girl I would never care about those things. Looks are only important to me in so far as it causes people to view me properly as who I am inside. I'm concerned about appearing clean because I don't want people to think I'm a slob, and I'm concerned about appearing female because I want people to stop relating to me as a man. The most stressful thing to me right now is that because I have long hair but appear male, if I don't take really really good care of my hair people will think I'm a drug addict or homeless or something like that. (my hair is REALLY hard to care for...)

I'm not sure how dating girls defeats the purpose of transitioning. Not everyone wants to be straight. Not everyone wants to match society's definition of what a woman should be.

Only so far as I'm careful what I do and how I do it so I don't mess up my nails or get any cuts. But I will still work on my car, do stuff outside, work on my house, especially since I rebuilt it while transitioning, and doing whatever suits me to be happy or save paying money to inept mechanics, carpenters or whatnot.  I just like to look nice while doing it:-)

Quote from: Lily on December 02, 2011, 10:33:21 AM
I would love to have the ability to pass without makeup or fashion, and had I been born a girl I would never care about those things. Looks are only important to me in so far as it causes people to view me properly as who I am inside. I'm concerned about appearing clean because I don't want people to think I'm a slob, and I'm concerned about appearing female because I want people to stop relating to me as a man. The most stressful thing to me right now is that because I have long hair but appear male, if I don't take really really good care of my hair people will think I'm a drug addict or homeless or something like that. (my hair is REALLY hard to care for...)

I'm not sure how dating girls defeats the purpose of transitioning. Not everyone wants to be straight. Not everyone wants to match society's definition of what a woman should be.

Yeah but why appeal to them seeing you as a woman if you don't fit/agree with their definition of a woman anyway? Then, at best they'll see you as something you don't even want to be.

I don't know. I guess I just don't understand the insistence on the label of "woman" when none of the substance is there. It gets stripped down over and over again so that we can only define "being a woman" as feeling like a woman. And who can really know what that feels like? Some people say they feel like a vampire or a lizard. Gender is socially defined and felt. A feral child, for example, has no concept of their own gender. The label of "woman" exists because women usually act differently than men and they serve a different social purpose. If women were just like men anyway, there would be no point in differentiating between them.

Transitioning complicates the whole thing because cis people don't have to justify their sex. That's because they didn't choose it. But when you transition, you are making a clear choice as to which sex you want to be. So the question becomes, why choose that sex if your behaviors and interests and sexuality are really better suited to your birth sex?

And I'm not being the ->-bleeped-<- police I just really have trouble understanding why you would want to go through all this crap that transition brings if people are just not going to understand anyway.

Quote from: pretty on December 02, 2011, 11:24:56 AM
Yeah but why appeal to them seeing you as a woman if you don't fit/agree with their definition of a woman anyway? Then, at best they'll see you as something you don't even want to be.

I don't know. I guess I just don't understand the insistence on the label of "woman" when none of the substance is there. It gets stripped down over and over again so that we can only define "being a woman" as feeling like a woman. And who can really know what that feels like? Some people say they feel like a vampire or a lizard. Gender is socially defined and felt. A feral child, for example, has no concept of their own gender. The label of "woman" exists because women usually act differently than men and they serve a different social purpose. If women were just like men anyway, there would be no point in differentiating between them.

Transitioning complicates the whole thing because cis people don't have to justify their sex. That's because they didn't choose it. But when you transition, you are making a clear choice as to which sex you want to be. So the question becomes, why choose that sex if your behaviors and interests and sexuality are really better suited to your birth sex?

And I'm not being the ->-bleeped-<- police I just really have trouble understanding why you would want to go through all this crap that transition brings if people are just not going to understand anyway.

Because I simply want to be who I feel myself to be. I would go through any pain to get that.

If I were cis, my interests wouldn't even be called into question. Why would a cis woman have "male interests?" Because that's who she is, there isn't anything else to it.

Amen Beverly I drive truck dose that make me less of a woman? I don't think so I see plenty of woman truck drivers and very few of them are masculine at all. Yes I wear makeup and LOVE shopping and looking cute but I also like the things I liked before I don't think I should stop liking activities just because some people view them as masculine.. My mother (a born girl) is more masculine then most men I know in her hobbies activities way she dresses etc but is still a woman. So why can't I enjoy remodeling my house or driving truck or doing my own maintenance on my truck to save me bookoo dollars?

Hitting on the original topic of this thread: I used to hate shopping... Now I cant drive past a store without thinking of a dozen things at least that I could buy. Also the items I purchase tend to be more clothing, jewelry, beauty products and before it was mostly electronics. I also love to dance now (taking dance lessons thanks to my new xbox kinnect  ;D ). And even have a new favorite color. And I haven't even started hrt yet. I think when mentally and emotionally we accept what is and start the transition process we free ourselves of social stigmas and allow the feelings,wants,desires etc that we have tried to bury for so long subconsciously or consciously because they were not socially accepted to come out hence my new found love for clothing. I still enjoy a lot of the things I did as a male because I really never did anything that I didn't actually enjoy. Never got into sports (except Nascar ;D ) Never really got into hunting either. I could go either way on the guns.

But as far as saying that someone is more or less feminine or masculine because of the activity's they enjoy or because of there sexual preference is in my opinion anyways sexist.

Anyways not trying to start an argument just saying my piece

hugs all

Quote from: Ashley_Jo on December 03, 2011, 02:23:34 AM


I used to hate shopping... Now I cant drive past a store without thinking of a dozen things at least that I could buy. Also the items I purchase tend to be more clothing, jewelry, beauty products and before it was mostly electronics.

But as far as saying that someone is more or less feminine or masculine because of the activity's they enjoy or because of there sexual preference is in my opinion anyways sexist.

That's quite a change, isn't it?

I've read similar things in this thread like 'I just loved -masculine things to do-  but now it has waned and now I love -to do feminine things-  etcetc.

Makes me think some MTF's play women instead of being women.

Shopping as a woman is a different experience to shopping as a man. Couldn't it be that a person might enjoy one while not liking the other?

I can very well see an MtF who, while a man, didn't care at all about how she looked but suddenly as a woman becomes interested with her appearance. I don't see how anyone is "playing at" anything.

Quote from: Lily on December 03, 2011, 08:53:05 AM
Shopping as a woman is a different experience to shopping as a man. Couldn't it be that a person might enjoy one while not liking the other?

I can very well see an MtF who, while a man, didn't care at all about how she looked but suddenly as a woman becomes interested with her appearance. I don't see how anyone is "playing at" anything.

As a man you can love shopping for nice things to decorate your house with, for presents for loved ones or kitchen appliances etcetc.


It sounds to 'or-or' to me.

My interests aren't gendered, they're simply things that I'm interested in. They haven't changed at all, with the exception that I think women's clothing is much more varied and colorful. Men's clothing is boring!

Z

Dahlia I should have been a bit more clear I'm sorry. What I should have said is As a man I hated shopping for clothing, I still shopped, just for electronics and car things etc, and yea I'm one of those that I really didn't care what I looked like. Iv worn the same clothes for days straight as a male and still do when I'm in male mode (as I haven't started full time yet) Now that I'm comfortable with myself and like what I'm becoming I do care what I look like.. So maybe that is just playing at being a girl and maybe not. To me its not and as Beverly said our Transition is for ourselves as long as we feel comfortable and happy with our new chosen/preferred gender then it really don't matter how other people define us in relation to gender.

So in essence what you define as "playing women" woman I define as for the first time in 27 years I actually care about my appearance and actually enjoying getting dressed/putting makeup on. I don't feel that its something that I have to do to fit in or appear more feminine. 

P.S. I loved getting all dressed up for a formal event even as a man just not to the degree that I do now.

Quote from: Zythyra on December 03, 2011, 09:01:43 AM

with the exception that I think women's clothing is much more varied and colorful. Men's clothing is boring!

Z

On the contrary, there's a wide choice of men's clothing/fashion/styles/jewelry here in the Netherlands. Nice colours and patterns, nice fabrics and not boring to look at at all.

If it wasn't for the 'men's cut' I would have bought several men's things myself. Very appealing.

Quote from: Dahlia on December 03, 2011, 08:34:46 AM
That's quite a change, isn't it?

I've read similar things in this thread like 'I just loved -masculine things to do-  but now it has waned and now I love -to do feminine things-  etcetc.

Makes me think some MTF's play women instead of being women.

Switching from doing male things to female things is perfectly natural and anyone who thinks that shows MTFs are just playing women hasn't got the foggiest idea of TSism.

I'm sure lots of CD/TVs/AG/G/L/B/TG do play at the opposite gender but they are easily recognised as their true selves.

Quote from: lilacwoman on December 03, 2011, 04:00:03 PM
Switching from doing male things to female things is perfectly natural and anyone who thinks that shows MTFs are just playing women hasn't got the foggiest idea of TSism.

I'm sure lots of CD/TVs/AG/G/L/B/TG do play at the opposite gender but they are easily recognised as their true selves.

Is this "TSism" the simultaneous change of your sex and gender?

Quote from: lilacwoman on December 03, 2011, 04:00:03 PM
Switching from doing male things to female things is perfectly natural and anyone who thinks that shows MTFs are just playing women hasn't got the foggiest idea of TSism.

Uhm.....no to be rude.....but you make it sound a bit like Dr Jeckyll and Mrs Hyde.
Or totally split, moving from one extreme to the other.

Quote from: pretty on December 03, 2011, 04:04:30 PM
Is this "TSism" the simultaneous change of your sex and gender?

you cannot change gender as thats the inner person.  you only change the sex of the body as far as possible.

Quote from: lilacwoman on December 04, 2011, 03:02:03 AM
you cannot change gender as thats the inner person.  you only change the sex of the body as far as possible.

I agree. So I don't see why so many people act like they are changing their personality too!  :-X

there was a news item a while back about a scruffy boring old guy whose main pastime was standing drinking beer in  a pub with other men and prattling on about old steam trains.
he disappeared for a week or two and came in again still looking and acting/sounding as boring old guy but announced that he was now a woman as he had been to Thailand and gotten a vagina.
his drinking mates said he was still the same boring old guy without a scrap of femaleness/femininity and bored them stupid with endlessly trying to talk about the workings of steam trains.
we can't be sure of his reason for getting the vagina but maybe he is the definitive AG or has the same magic mirror that many TGs have.

I keep looking for the link to the story but haven't found it yet but will run across it one day.

Nope. I'm still an enormous nerd with the computers. Right now I'm on a fantastic x86 swing: http://www.canyoucrackit.co.uk/ (http://www.canyoucrackit.co.uk/)

Quote from: lilacwoman on December 04, 2011, 03:10:52 AM
there was a news item a while back about a scruffy boring old guy whose main pastime was standing drinking beer in  a pub with other men and prattling on about old steam trains.
he disappeared for a week or two and came in again still looking and acting/sounding as boring old guy but announced that he was now a woman as he had been to Thailand and gotten a vagina.
his drinking mates said he was still the same boring old guy without a scrap of femaleness/femininity and bored them stupid with endlessly trying to talk about the workings of steam trains.
we can't be sure of his reason for getting the vagina but maybe he is the definitive AG or has the same magic mirror that many TGs have.

I keep looking for the link to the story but haven't found it yet but will run across it one day.

Sounds silly and funny at the same time to me ;-)
I mean did s/he actually show his/her new vagina to his/her pubmates etc?

Or did they believe him/her at face value?

HE was one of those dogmatic old guys so all his mates accepted his statement as truth...I wouldn't want to look at a rough old guys naked body to check if it had a vagina.