Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I know that for a very long time I would wish that one magical day I would wake up as a girl/woman with a vagina and breasts, but then I woke up from that dream and I am here now...

Over the last month or so I have come out to my wife and have begun cross dressing in front of her and have had 4 counseling sessions with a doctor and have had 1 laser removal session; yes I am much happier. My concern is that I am balding (Norwood scale of 5) and I have to wear a wig. I would like to go ahead and get a hair transplant done before or when I begin my HRT so when I do have to come out to my employer months down the road I will have some hair; even though it'll be short. Otherwise, when I do come out at work, I will be bald one day then wear a wig the next...basically.

My doctor says to me to not worry about the hair, wear a wig and save my money for a vagina... She even suggested that some of my hair will grow back with the HRT.

Yes I am crazy.

- Breanne ;D

Hi Breanne Rose,

An interesting proposition you pose. However, for my moneys worth, I'd have to put all my money on option 2.

To my way of thinking, a vagina fully affirms not only your choice AND commitment, it should affirm what's between your ears. Now that you have a body that is in total harmony with itself, the woman that you are has to radiate out like a light house on steroids. This attitude and perspective has to be far more important than just a head of hair to pass as a woman.

Being a woman is far superior than passing as one.   Passing implies the possibility of doubt; being, removes any sense of doubt.

Hope this helps in some way. In the meantime, be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

IMHO passing as a woman is 10000x more important. Because 99.9% of the time our genitals are hidden to others. What's the point of having a vag if others don't see you as female outside? I'd personally put srs as my last priority, and spend my money on ffs/plastic surgeries first.

honestly i dont think i will be happy till i pass and have my downstairs mix-up sorted out

Passing > having the correct plumbing.

Quote from: Venus-Castina on November 28, 2011, 06:15:38 AM
I much rather have a convincing female appearance with male genitalia than being an obvious transwoman who can't pass at a 10 foot distance on a dark night but with a vagina.

Ditto that. Much more important for me to pass without an eyebrow raised than having a vagina and looking like a drag queen.

Perception is reality, so passing AND having a smooth crotch (deep root penectomy and castration) are my goals, having a vagina to penetrate would just be a bonus, but that's my situation not for everyone :)

Too bad that nobody answers the actual question.

The general rule of thumb is to first give the hormones some time to do their work before you get any facial surgery. If you do want to start with facial surgery, then start with the bonework, and do the soft tissue work later.

My advice would be to plan ahead and think very carefully about how you spend your money. You may decide to get later surgeries that make the first surgery useless. For example, getting a nosejob or a hair transplant first may not be such a smart idea if you later decide to get a full FFS.

Also, your perspective may change during transition. Many people who first think they don't need SRS later change their mind. For some, feeling complete as the person that they've always felt to be inside is much more important than passing.

Spend your money wisely!

Im so glad we have the NHS in the UK. Its crazy the diference in total transition cost over the atlantic :s

Dr Z (FFS surgeon) said that he prefers to do a hairline relocation before hair transplants. You will also get some of your hair back so you may want to wait before having either done.  Usually the transplant places want you on finesteride for at least 2 years before doing anything in case you are lucky enough to get a lot of hair back.

Keep in mind that none of this is quick. Even if you had transplants today it would be around a year before it was really filled in. Given that maybe you want to look at some type of custom wig as a temporary stopgap?

I think what is important is very contingent on where you are in transition. I have passed literally from the first time I put on female clothes and walked out my door, but I still worried mightily. I still had work to do and over the last year I've refined my look, makeup, hair, clothes and just general style. I've always known that SRS was important to me, but I didn't hate my penis. However, now that I pass, I am beginning to really resent it. It is the last remaining holdover and I can feel it every day. No matter how many people tell me that I am a woman, that I look and act like a female, that they can't believe I was ever a guy, I know the truth and I die a little inside every day that I am not right. So IMHO, I would agree that passing is very important. However, it is not an either/or proposition. You may find you need both to feel whole, complete and female.

Quote from: Melody Maia on November 28, 2011, 02:08:51 PM
I think what is important is very contingent on where you are in transition. I have passed literally from the first time I put on female clothes and walked out my door, but I still worried mightily. I still had work to do and over the last year I've refined my look, makeup, hair, clothes and just general style. I've always known that SRS was important to me, but I didn't hate my penis. However, now that I pass, I am beginning to really resent it. It is the last remaining holdover and I can feel it every day. No matter how many people tell me that I am a woman, that I look and act like a female, that they can't believe I was ever a guy, I know the truth and I die a little inside every day that I am not right. So IMHO, I would agree that passing is very important. However, it is not an either/or proposition. You may find you need both to feel whole, complete and female.

I kinda agree with your point of view and understand it the most.  I can pass as well fairly easily but my depression is still hear in spades and all due to downstairs.  I hate it, loathe it, and the fact I know it's there makes it really hard to accept a compliment on how I look.  I just can't bring myself to accept it knowing I'm still not there yet.  Sadly in many ways this paralyzes me from doing what I really need to do.

  I agree with the majority that passing is soooo much more important. I HATE my genitals but they're not the main source of my dysphoria so to me blending in with my target gender is by far more important then anything else. Some transwomen have very bad dysphoria regarding their private parts so SRS is more important to them and i totally respect that.


  About the hair you should ask your doctor about finasteride or avodart.   

I would say do the hormones first, with finasteride or dutasteride if at all possible because of the hair loss.  The best time to make decisions on expensive things is down the road once you have an idea of the results you're getting.  Making decisions like that up front is a bad idea because our bodies can and do surprise us in many ways after we've been on HRT for a while.

I personally chose passing first.  I had FFS over 5 months ago and have not been read as male a single time since then.  Like Maia, this has made me a lot more uncomfortable with my genitals than I was before I was passing all the time.  I'd have to think on what I'd do if I could only choose one, but thankfully these questions usually resolve to "which one should I do first?" instead.  Only you can truly make that decision.

id say to me both are equally important but to begin with would be FFS. I dont think i could continue living without a vagina though because even if i would be passable i feel like there is something wrong with me still. i am one of those people that has a hatred for that part and no amount of passing or ffs is going to change that- i hate it and want it gone

Breanne.........my opinion....wear the wig a while, stay on hrt.  You have no idea what you're gonna look like this soon.  I look like my old self's sister.  My sister says I look like our mom, and so.....let the estrogen work its magic.  Quite a bit of my hair grew back, until I was quite happy with it.  Now.....I'm unhappy, seeing some new losses.  At the outset, if I had then what I have now, I'd be happy.  We are vain creatures and compare ourselves to our recent selves.  Vagina?  Importance?  It is soo important for me to be universally accepted socially as female, but when changing clothes, showering.....being naked.....I don't look there.  And in a couple months or so, I will.  To me, that says a lot.





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People interact with your outside appearance and unless you're frequenting gloryholes.... Genitals are last. But do what you want.

i'm all about pulling sex and gender apart. getting a vagina will not magically turn me into a cisgendered woman, and i accept that is not what i am, not what i ever will be. i do not identify myself in terms of sex. identify myself in terms of gender which is the bigger picture.

Quote from: BreanneRose on November 28, 2011, 03:45:30 AM
I would like to go ahead and get a hair transplant done before or when I begin my HRT so when I do have to come out to my employer months down the road I will have some hair; even though it'll be short. Otherwise, when I do come out at work, I will be bald one day then wear a wig the next...basically.

Before you worry about srs or hair transplants make sure you have the money to take care of the hair on your face. If you have any grey laser won't touch that. Make sure you have enough to finish laser then get electrolysis for the rest.

Propecia worked wonders for me and I would be worth seeing if it works you for. Every hair that fills back in with propecia (or similar meds) is one less hair you have to transplant and at the $2 and something they charge per follicular unit that adds up really quickly. HRT may also help with this as well.

If your going to come out to work in a few months time don't expect much from hair transplants in that time. I had mine done 6 months ago and it really is just now starting to fill in but it's way shorter than the rest of my hair. Wearing a wig at work could be a good thing, making a clear break between your old self as a male and who you are now. It may be a bit of a shock but people will get over it soon enough.

I would suggest researching hair transplants in the mean time. It's free or low cost and you'll find out if your even a good candidate. What kind of outcome can you expect with the hair loss that you do have. Will it be dense enough to give you a good look or will it be too sparse to look right. It would be a shame to spend thousands on hair transplants, it not giving you want you want and having to wear a wig anyway.

Only you can decide what's important to you in your transition and those things may very well change as time goes on. I wish you the best of luck.

It is a matter of how much signifinance you attach to having a vagina...

But consider this - if you do not pass but you have a vagina, you always will be viewed as a man with a self-multiation disorder who went and multiated his dick.

Far better to be a passable woman with a penis, and a vagina can always come later, plus even if you finally get a vagina, it is not like you are going to be going around telling strangers, "I got a vagina now! So I am a woman now!"

Plus there is safety to consider as well.. Assailants who clock you as trans may hurt you, even if you tell them you have a vagina - even worse, they might just violate you as well

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 28, 2011, 10:07:08 PM
It is a matter of how much signifinance you attach to having a vagina...

But consider this - if you do not pass but you have a vagina, you always will be viewed as a man with a self-multiation disorder who went and multiated his dick.

Far better to be a passable woman with a penis, and a vagina can always come later, plus even if you finally get a vagina, it is not like you are going to be going around telling strangers, "I got a vagina now! So I am a woman now!"

Plus there is safety to consider as well.. Assailants who clock you as trans may hurt you, even if you tell them you have a vagina - even worse, they might just violate you as well

i'm thinking if one is a post op mtf and has sex with a cisgendered man without revealing to him they were born male, if it is the wrong guy, and he finds that information out, he may murder her or beat her up as bad as a guy.

A similar question was asked not too long ago, but to share my answer, passing is more important to me.

Just for reference... https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,109979.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,109979.0.html)

Quote from: FullMoon19 on November 28, 2011, 10:19:35 PM
i'm thinking if one is a post op mtf and has sex with a cisgendered man without revealing to him they were born male, if it is the wrong guy, and he finds that information out, he may murder her or beat her up as bad as a guy.

Yeah, what I meant was that a passable woman with a penis has a far better chance of avoiding detection or assault by others than a nonpassable woman with a vagina easily clocked even from a distance.

If a post op MTF had a sex with a natal male without telling him, well, that is a different ballpark game....

We are talking about living your life day to day as a passable woman with a penis compared to a nonpassable woman with a vagina.

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 28, 2011, 10:51:15 PM
We are talking about living your life day to day as a passable woman with a penis compared to a nonpassable woman with a vagina.

I told some guy I had a vagina and he was like, "send me pics!" then I didn't send him pics and he was upset. He's like, "You're a hot ass chick!" "I wanna do you so bad" to "never talk to me again" when he figured out what club ASIA was. Too many red flags in the beginning. Him and I briefly discussed ->-bleeped-<-s and he was like, "Yeah, I spot them all the time." Apparently not with me.

But he was a bro...the type who reads MAXIM monthly, goes to HOOTERS on the wharf, & avoids ->-bleeped-<-s like the plague. I met him at Embarcadero where he worked one day, he started flirting with me and asked me for my number. I've met several men who were awesome and wanted a relationship until I told them and they were like, "Not interested in even getting to know you"

But those experiences were more worth it, than having ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s persuing me.

I just started wearing makeup last week and I can say for sure that my facial hair has got to go first! Thanks girls...

And this is why I am so happy I joined this group... I don't feel like I am the only one anymore... Thank god...

Quote from: BreanneRose on November 29, 2011, 01:06:09 AM

And this is why I am so happy I joined this group... I don't feel like I am the only one anymore... Thank god...

I know right, isn't it just so wonderful!

Quote from: BreanneRose on November 29, 2011, 01:06:09 AM
I just started wearing makeup last week and I can say for sure that my facial hair has got to go first! Thanks girls...

And this is why I am so happy I joined this group... I don't feel like I am the only one anymore... Thank god...

I've been wearing makeup since I was 14...but you know I learn new things everyday as it is my job.

dead follicles from MPB may never rewaken with drugs so plan on wigs or transplants.
I had transplants and they were growing new hairs after 3/4 weeks and after six months gave a nice hairline.
I had nice wigs previously and they worked fine as I spent time searching and choosing styles suitable for my age and shape not to make me look like a drag queen.
got to be seen and living as a woman before a vagina gets important.

I'm still having electrolysis and laser on my face and the hairs on my chin and mouth sides are taking forever to clear so most of the time I have the pits and scars of electrolysis that needs a heavy makeup and that gets me noticed far too much so I'd say spend on face hair and then head hair and then srs.

Obviously both factors are important but if I had to choose between the two, 'passing as a woman' would be my answer as the most important factor!

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 28, 2011, 10:51:15 PM
Yeah, what I meant was that a passable woman with a penis has a far better chance of avoiding detection or assault by others than a nonpassable woman with a vagina easily clocked even from a distance.

Absolutely! my thoughts exactely!

I agree with the majority. Passing is more important to me.

The question is a poser and no mistake! The answers will be as varied as the individuals. In my instance-- which is a statical model of one-- the most important is SURVIVABILITY! If you need employment to make it all happen-- be employable in some way.  If you can afford to live on your independent means, then you can afford a more contemplative answer.

I had great employment-- lost it due to the economy (not my gender issues) and let me tell you it was grim and grim for years. I have adapted and moved on, but a LOT of that was sheer dumb luck, and huge adjustments.

Its a question that may have different answers in different circumstances.  Folks who have absolutists answers may never have to walk in your shoes. And I'm absolutely sure about that--

I just hope you can get to where you want to be! Lots can not!

Best of Luck-

Lexi-

Consider FFS and hair modification surgery as the cake; SRS as the icing on the cake.  ;)

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 30, 2011, 08:08:48 PM
Consider FFS and hair modification surgery as the cake; SRS as the icing on the cake.  ;)

But do the FFS first so that if you do end up needing transplants you have less area to cover. If FFS gives you 1/2 or 3/4 inches more hairline then you can focus on density of a sparse area vs starting from scratch.

Quote from: Jeneva on December 01, 2011, 10:02:25 AM
But do the FFS first so that if you do end up needing transplants you have less area to cover. If FFS gives you 1/2 or 3/4 inches more hairline then you can focus on density of a sparse area vs starting from scratch.

What FFS procedures do you mean? Hairline lowering? Brow lift?

This is not a good question, as it doesn't represent a realistic choice.  If you can't pass, FFS probably won't help that much.

     There's so much more to passing than a face and there are many women who have strongly male facial features and still pass fine.

      Your first question is about hair.  Let the hormones do their thing and finesteride might be a good choice for you.  Hair loss is often associated with T and its reduction, as part of your hormone treatment, just my bring your hair back.

      The next issue is people giving advice who haven't been there yet.  If you don't have a vagina, you don't know all that goes with one.  It is NOT just a change in your panties, it's a change in your brain, as well.  If you ask many post-op women, they will nearly all tell you that GRS will cure the feelings of GID.   All those anxieties, all those compulsions and over-riding obsessions can go away when you wake up from the surgery.

       As a post-op woman, I'll advise you to focus on your own transition first and be slow to make long-term plans involving a lot of money spent.  In other words, if transition is the right path for you, start with hormones and let them do their work.  Anyone who is currently on HRT will tell you of the calming effect of beginning Estrogen therapy.   Aaaaah.  The E will re-shape your facial look over time and it will also re-shape your body.  YOU need to re-shape your mind and behavior to let your inner female come out to the world.

       After you are well on your way to fulfilling your year-long RLE, you may decide what to do.  If you really want to let your inner woman out, she will come out.  Just be aware of who is telling you what.   When people give you advice, look at what they have, for if you follow their advice, that is what you'll get.

       If the money is the same, GRS does WAY more than change your body, it also changes your brain.  It can cure GID.

for me passing is the most important thing right now..

For me, I care less what other people "think" I am, and more what I actually am - so a vagina is more important, since I've given up "passing" as a man.

While we are on the subject of vaginas, you have to also ask yourself a question - if you opt for a vagina instead of FSS, do you want to have an active sexual life? Because I have heard that some vaginas are very shallow and incapable of receiving bigger penises.

I put a lot of importance on passing. I would much rather look how I should and have people truly see that I am a woman. But I don't have to be stunning or a Victoria's Secret model. As long as I passed well enough, I would choose a vagina over FFS.

Quote from: MsDazzler on December 02, 2011, 09:21:02 PM
While we are on the subject of vaginas, you have to also ask yourself a question - if you opt for a vagina instead of FSS, do you want to have an active sexual life? Because I have heard that some vaginas are very shallow and incapable of receiving bigger penises.

To answer your question: I would just want a normal sex life. I'm not a whore, but I would like to be a little more active than just "once in a while."

Quote from: MsDazzler on December 02, 2011, 09:21:02 PM
While we are on the subject of vaginas, you have to also ask yourself a question - if you opt for a vagina instead of FSS, do you want to have an active sexual life? Because I have heard that some vaginas are very shallow and incapable of receiving bigger penises.

The vast majority of GRS vaginae are quite adequate for normal, active sexual activity.  They are also mostly indistinguishable from those created by nature.  They look, smell and taste normal.

      If there's inadequate skin available for the needed depth, this would come out in the initial consultation with the surgeon.  This is not a surprise at all, if it turns out this way.

Quote from: Re: Joyce on December 03, 2011, 04:33:56 AM
The vast majority of GRS vaginae are quite adequate for normal, active sexual activity.  They are also mostly indistinguishable from those created by nature.  They look, smell and taste normal.

      If there's inadequate skin available for the needed depth, this would come out in the initial consultation with the surgeon.  This is not a surprise at all, if it turns out this way.

I know a girl who had complications with her op resulting in a lack of depth but she then had a second op performed and some colon was used to give her a more usefull depth.

Quote from: Padma on December 02, 2011, 05:07:03 AM
For me, I care less what other people "think" I am, and more what I actually am - so a vagina is more important, since I've given up "passing" as a man.

I find im caring less and less what people think. Most people ive met really dont care anyway, infact the majority of people are MORE friendly knowing im trans because they are afraid of offending me and they wanna seem accepting of it lol. Ive already decided that im never gonna sleep with anyone or start a relationship with anyone without telling them that i am trans, it not fair on them imho. Anyone who has a problem with me being trans isnt worth knowing anyway so i can live with people knowing. (I dont think i would get called pretty as much if people thought i was a natal female either and i do like to be called pretty lol). Whereas having my downstair mix-up is horrible, i have wanted rid of that since I was a kid!

I think what im trying to get at is that people can accept me for being trans but I CANT accept myself while i have that crap between my legs. Thats just me, im not trying to tell people what to do or anything lol

I think its more important to pass, at least in terms of how the rest of the world would see and interact with you.

But if I get a vagina, then how will I top my gay ex b/f?

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 03, 2011, 07:08:28 PM
But if I get a vagina, then how will I top my gay ex b/f?

you won't be able to. i think i would rather have a gay boyfriend. lots of the gay boyfriends are a hot commodity, and a woman with a vagina has no chance. i don't like the alpha males. gay is better.

Quote from: FullMoon19 on December 03, 2011, 07:15:29 PM
you won't be able to. i think i would rather have a gay boyfriend. lots of the gay boyfriends are a hot commodity, and a woman with a vagina has no chance. i don't like the alpha males. gay is better.

Most gay men are hotter than your average straight guy.

I mean  I obviously mean bi-curious gays or ones who like extreme femmes. I find a lot of gay men who find me attractive are more open minded than a clueless straight guy who got trapped.

But as for alpha males... I like them. I've dated several... They can be a bit controlling.

Either way, some of the people/friends in the straight guys family are gonna consider him a "flaming gay" anyways. It's just reality... They'd be more accepting of a transgender girl if he's out of the closet....and yes, there is a closet.

Option 2. That's where all the problems started for me.

Get rid of the testes asap and at least feel less hormonally male influenced and be better able to relate to females.. .. That was the best thing i ever did. That nasty male sex drive was goneeeeeeeeee yippeeeee ... the other stuff will follow as needed..

Can I have both? At first, passing was all that mattered. I I could care less about my genitals, so long as everyone perceived me correctly.

Now, three months on HRT, and having learned that I pass easily, my dysphoria has decided to smack me right in the nuts. Zing!

But in all seriousness, I would pick being perceived correctly as a woman, than to have a vagina and look like a man. I just want both, though. I can be selfish, right? I want my Okeefe cake, and eat it too!

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 03, 2011, 07:23:37 PM
Most gay men are hotter than your average straight guy.

I mean  I obviously mean bi-curious gays or ones who like extreme femmes. I find a lot of gay men who find me attractive are more open minded than a clueless straight guy who got trapped.

But as for alpha males... I like them. I've dated several... They can be a bit controlling.

Either way, some of the people/friends in the straight guys family are gonna consider him a "flaming gay" anyways. It's just reality... They'd be more accepting of a transgender girl if he's out of the closet....and yes, there is a closet.

hmmm i think straight guys are hotter than gay guys for the most part.

I would much rather pass as a woman than have a vagina.  Your face, hair, et cetera is seen everyday as opposed to your vagina, so I'll go with passing.

Quote from: MsDazzler on December 04, 2011, 01:15:33 PM

hmmm i think straight guys are hotter than gay guys for the most part.

Agreed. From my experience gay guys are too femmy looking and acting for the most part. I like my boyfriends to be straight and reeking with testosterone otherwise there isn't much point dating them in my opinion.

Quote from: Icephoenyx on December 04, 2011, 11:27:59 PM
Agreed. From my experience gay guys are too femmy looking and acting for the most part. I like my boyfriends to be straight and reeking with testosterone otherwise there isn't much point dating them in my opinion.

I date gays... But they could pass for straight... How else would I access threesomes?

  Funny how alot of really hot guys turn out to be gay!  ::)

Quote from: Rukia87xo on December 04, 2011, 11:58:42 PM
  Funny how most really hot guys turn out to be gay!  ::)

I can't believe all my ex boyfriends turned out to be gay. Like I thought he was playing with my penis for his health. I spent the week in WeHo this weekend, ton of hot men... None of them straight.

LOL

 This question is a popular dilemma... one or the other, there still entails some sort of discomfort of suffering. However, I would choose to pass as a woman over having a vagina, if I had to have a choice. While having this penis and its testes is quite bothersome, being seen and treated as a man would be far more painful in my everyday life... it would be impossible for me to try to present as female if I could not even approach passing, and having a vagina would cut me off from relationships - if I couldn't pass, having a vagina would end up making things worse for me.

On the other hand, passing with a penis would allow me to live comfortably and happily. While I would have to remain celibate for my entire life, because I absolutely hate sex for as long as I have that thing, I believe that the trade-off would be much happier than the other option. But neither would result in real happiness.

To me, passing is more important. But either way is fine, as long as you are happy with yourself:)