Susan's Place Transgender Resources

You know, people tend to say....

"You are not straight enough" - in other words, you are too feminine-acting to be one
"You are not lesbian enough" - in other words, you are too feminine-looking to be one
"You are not gay enough" - in other words, you are too straight-acting

So, what would "you are not trans enough" mean if a person said that?

I don't agree with that mindset.  I'd likely interpret it as an insult.

I have a kazillion I'm-not-[adjective]-enoughs that apply to me already

I'm not smart enough - in other words, I'm too dumb
I'm not pretty enough - in other words, I'm too ugly
I'm not cool enough - in other words, I'm too uncool
I'm not nice enough - in other words, I'm a meanie

So I don't really care if I'm not trans enough, whatever that actually means...

I'd guess it means the person is not considered very target-gender-appropriate by the speaker. That, or the speaker disregards "stealth" living as a lack of support for transitioners, a lack of "trans solidarity", making the person "not trans enough" to their tastes.

It could also mean the person passes too well, or is not drag enough, to the speaker's tastes, and is too much of a "regular person". I guess it could connote a fetish for trans people.

In any case, it does not bear much sense as a sentence. It's like saying "this pebble is not enough of a pebble".

Quote from: A on November 29, 2011, 01:38:33 AM
In any case, it does not bear much sense as a sentence. It's like saying "this pebble is not enough of a pebble".

What if the pebble got stoned?

It's a contradictio, and impossible.
Things in life are true or false.
So, take a look at this:
Are you a man.....True/False
Are you a woman......True/False
You can answer these questions with False, when in transition.
Are you a transsexual.....T/F
Suppose the answer is True, than a person is trans, right?
When someone is not trans enough means that the person is trans.
So, a person can't be not enough trans, you're trans or not.
When not trans the above man or women is T.

Problem solved....plain and simple

Quote from: VeryGnawty on November 29, 2011, 11:39:35 AM
What if the pebble got stoned?

then it rock! Lol

Like you're not gay/straight enough, except trans.

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 28, 2011, 10:18:05 PM
You know, people tend to say....

"You are not straight enough" - in other words, you are too feminine-acting to be one
"You are not lesbian enough" - in other words, you are too feminine-looking to be one
"You are not gay enough" - in other words, you are too straight-acting

So, what would "you are not trans enough" mean if a person said that?

That's like what some black people say when they say someone is an "Oreo"...black on the outside, white on the inside (ie, in their manners/behaviors etc)

It's an insult. They're just reinforcing stereotypes, preventing others from being themselves.

imho

Quote from: Beth Andrea on November 29, 2011, 07:35:24 PM
That's like what some black people say when they say someone is an "Oreo"...black on the outside, white on the inside (ie, in their manners/behaviors etc)

It's an insult. They're just reinforcing stereotypes, preventing others from being themselves.

imho

Mmm, I would laugh my ass off if someone called me a twinkie.

Quote from: annette on November 29, 2011, 11:56:45 AM
It's a contradictio, and impossible.
Things in life are true or false.
So, take a look at this:
Are you a man.....True/False
Are you a woman......True/False
You can answer these questions with False, when in transition.
Are you a transsexual.....T/F
Suppose the answer is True, than a person is trans, right?
When someone is not trans enough means that the person is trans.
So, a person can't be not enough trans, you're trans or not.
When not trans the above man or women is T.

Problem solved....plain and simple

So what you're saying is that because I've opted to not have srs, I am not "trans enough". Oh well, fabulous enough works. LMAO

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on November 29, 2011, 07:57:41 PM
So what you're saying is that because I've opted to not have srs, I am not "trans enough". Oh well, fabulous enough works. LMAO

Yeah I think you hit the nail on its head... SRS is the ultimate measure of how really you were supposed to be "trans"... if you do not want to go all way, obviously you are not trans enough

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 29, 2011, 09:07:14 PM
Yeah I think you hit the nail on its head... SRS is the ultimate measure of how really you were supposed to be "trans"... if you do not want to go all way, obviously you are not trans enough

+1

I thought I'd dust that off. Since I got a lot of guff for not wanting srs on here. The person I responded to didn't even consider me female, just some fabulous DQ/gay man.

I think you don't read well.
Trans means in transition, going from one gender to another.
For example from male to female.
When one had the srs, it's not trans anymore but female.
So, don't worry, you're trans enough, more than enough.
Btw, I never said you were a fabulous gay man, these were again YOUR words, not mine.
Apparently you consider yourself like that.

So, read the posts again and you will discover that what you say isn't true.
It's a bit disappointing, that someone who is always talking about the facts, now screws the facts for own advantage

Yall stop fighting.

And to the thread question, it means go home and study and come back when you're transer. Trans-er. More trans. Be trans harder. Stop being so cis, didn't you get the same script as the rest of us? Don't make us kick you out of the club.

I'll go along with the 'if you don't want to go all the way you're not trans' as to wish to hang on to anything so male as a penis must show you are male and not trans enough - all the arguments for keeping a penis are also male orientated.

Quote from: VeryGnawty on November 29, 2011, 11:39:35 AM
What if the pebble got stoned?

Hey sounds like my kind of logic

if you can skip rocks on water
and you can skip rocks on rocks
and you can swim on water
you can swim on ROCKS?

I travel all over the US, east of the Mississippi, and occasionally out to the Southwest. If it was ever pointed out to me that I was too much or not enough of anything, I would have point out that Folks are different all over. And that I am embarrassed for their unfortunate provincialism. I would then politely suggest that if at all possibly,  they should try to get out and see some of the world...

I guess this is why I come off as such a snotty b*tch!    ;)

Lexi -
On the Road In Northern Alabama,
(just passing through--)

Quote from: Felix on November 30, 2011, 03:05:29 AMStop being so cis

That made me chuckle. I'm gonna wait until the perfect moment to say that to my friend :P

Quote from: lilacwoman on November 30, 2011, 04:36:06 AM
I'll go along with the 'if you don't want to go all the way you're not trans' as to wish to hang on to anything so male as a penis must show you are male and not trans enough - all the arguments for keeping a penis are also male orientated.

Suppose - for financial reasons, one cannot get SRS... Must she take a knife to her gentials and attempt to cut it off in order to prove that she is trans enough?

I know Hirja in India does that... they do it in the back streets and alleys, without anethestics.  :icon_blink:

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 30, 2011, 07:26:23 PM
Suppose - for financial reasons, one cannot get SRS... Must she take a knife to her gentials and attempt to cut it off in order to prove that she is trans enough?

I know Hirja in India does that... they do it in the back streets and alleys, without anethestics.  :icon_blink:

you're misquoting me.  if a person wants but can't afford srs is not the same as wanting to hang onto the male bits.

Hijras lose their bits while drugged and tied up and if they survive the risks they accept the mutilated groin as the price to pay to live female. 

There is some missunderstanding I suppose, trans means from one point to another or from one gender to another.
That means that after srs, one is not trans anymore, because the point is reached.
If someone wants to keep the male genitals while living as a woman or the other way around, he or she will be trans the rest of his/her life.
I think one will be trans enough than, one can't be more trans than that.

Quote from: annette on December 01, 2011, 04:20:27 PM
There is some missunderstanding I suppose, trans means from one point to another or from one gender to another.
That means that after srs, one is not trans anymore, because the point is reached.
If someone wants to keep the male genitals while living as a woman or the other way around, he or she will be trans the rest of his/her life.
I think one will be trans enough than, one can't be more trans than that.

Since you specifically include men and women here, I just want to object on behalf of the men. I will keep my original genitals. Many guys do. Some surgical modification might be nice, but the science just isn't very good yet, and if I had that kind of money I'd buy glasses or clothes for myself or dental work for my daughter. Keeping my genitals doesn't make me any more or less trans than an ftm who has had more extensive medical intervention. Or more or less a man. We're just people, more grey than black or white.

I do understand that with you girls there are clearer lines to cross when you transition, and I mean no disrespect.

You just hit the nail, the sience just isn't very good yet, that's (sadly)the problem with FTM's, you don't have a choice.
If there was a choice life could be a lot easier for FTM's, I mean, a fully functional penis would be nice, right?
I'm talking about people who do have a choice but don't WANT it, than one is conscious living as a trans, while most trans people want the trans period behind their backs.

There are a lot of FTM's who will do top surgery, just to get rid of the female looks, they wants to be men, as close as they can come.
Sadly, bottom surgery is no option yet, maybe in the future.

I will admit to being desperate for top surgery. When I was a kid and first heard of breast cancer, I was pretty thrilled that maybe it could happen to me, and then I could be normal.

Quote from: annette on November 30, 2011, 03:00:28 AM
I think you don't read well.
Trans means in transition, going from one gender to another.
For example from male to female.
When one had the srs, it's not trans anymore but female.

SRS doesn't suddenly make someone a woman who wasn't one before. People are more than their genitals. The brain is the only organ that matters in determining who is who.

Yeah, sure, apperently that's why everybody want to pass on the site, look at the treads, do I pass one day, or whatever.
Well, you can bring the good news, it doesn't matter or you pass or not, it's all about the brain, right?
And why do people want to pass, coz the world is binairy, first question after birth? is it a boy or a girl? Answer.. Doesn't matter because we don't know what the brain of the newborn will be.
C'mon sweetie, step into the real world, you will notice that your message will not be heared.

BTW, people are also more than just the brain

 Ha-ha! I'm way more trans than all of you people, because I had to go through this and this and this, knew about it since I was this, and did that and that and that! Me being further along in transition and having suffered more than you all makes me a better human being.

People love to classify... and we also love to compete. Heirarchies exist everywhere - it's just what people like to do to improve their self-esteem. If someone likes thinking they are more trans than other trans, then it would be hoped that others would recognize this as the person trying to reconcile unnecessary woes, trials, and regretful experiences by turning them into a mark of superiority over those whose lives have differed. Only very rarely would such a mechanism be otherwise necessary.

The elitist crap and seeing how many seemed to be wanting to take hormones for fetish reasons is what made me withdraw from the online trans community for so long.

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 28, 2011, 10:18:05 PM
You know, people tend to say....

"You are not straight enough" - in other words, you are too feminine-acting to be one
"You are not lesbian enough" - in other words, you are too feminine-looking to be one
"You are not gay enough" - in other words, you are too straight-acting

So, what would "you are not trans enough" mean if a person said that?

it means whoever said that lacked the maturity to say anything positive. It may also mean the trans person who said that may be struggling within their own self. Especially when they feel the need to stick "SRS" in there to determine how good enough trans you are. It really tells me more about themselves than about the person they are attacking.

Quote from: annette on December 02, 2011, 07:40:26 AM
BTW, people are also more than just the brain

I don't know too many people who are themselves after brain death, hooked up to life support. Do you?

I don't know too many people who are still themselves during Alzheimer either.

True, they are the same person, but they also become radically different. There is no denying that. You do not give the brain enough credit. Without normal brain function, you could be lying on the floor drooling everywhere as you defecate on yourself.

Quote from: annette on December 02, 2011, 07:38:11 AM
Yeah, sure, apperently that's why everybody want to pass on the site, look at the treads, do I pass one day, or whatever.
Well, you can bring the good news, it doesn't matter or you pass or not, it's all about the brain, right?
And why do people want to pass, coz the world is binairy, first question after birth? is it a boy or a girl? Answer.. Doesn't matter because we don't know what the brain of the newborn will be.
C'mon sweetie, step into the real world, you will notice that your message will not be heared.

The body is just a shell to carry and move the brain about. It isn't a person without the brain, it's just so much meat.

My shell's appearance is such that when people see it, they assume my brain is different than what I know it to be. Most people simply judge by looks because they know no other way. Every time I am seen as male, I feel like I am wearing a costume. Transitioning is taking off that costume... but I was still the same person when I was wearing it.

My words are taken out of context.
people are more than just a brain, true, one can't live without a brain, neither without a liver or a heart.
It's all together what's making a person, but we are going off topic now.
I was talking about the meaning of the word trans.
I think I made myself perfectly clear about that, just from one point to another, when that point is reached there is no trans anymore.
Trans and cis are just words from the old Latin language.
When someone says, not trans enough....I don't know what they mean, is one than cis or something, I guess I need to hear more of the story to know what they mean, what was the discussion before? Was it meaned in a bad way, or not?
We are back on topic now.

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on December 02, 2011, 08:32:08 AM
Ha-ha! I'm way more trans than all of you people, because I had to go through this and this and this, knew about it since I was this, and did that and that and that! Me being further along in transition and having suffered more than you all makes me a better human being.

Was that a rhetoric statement or actual statment about how you feel about us? :icon_blink:

Quote from: annette on December 02, 2011, 04:53:33 PM
I was talking about the meaning of the word trans.
I think I made myself perfectly clear about that, just from one point to another, when that point is reached there is no trans anymore.
Trans and cis are just words from the old Latin language.
When someone says, not trans enough....I don't know what they mean, is one than cis or something, I guess I need to hear more of the story to know what they mean, what was the discussion before? Was it meaned in a bad way, or not?
We are back on topic now.

Well, some will agree with you and others will disagree with you. It's all dependent on the individual.

For some trans, they do try to reach a personal threshold where they no longer wish to be a trans or assume whatever goals to be completed to reach a point where they feel they are no longer trans.

Then you have some who embrace the concept of trans and has no desire to lose that part of themselves.

Then you have others who could care less either way.

You have trans who determine their gender (and the gender of other trans) by what medical steps they had taken in their lives.

You have other trans who determine their gender by who they are inside and medical steps may be steps to help them feel better about it but they will say they are of their chosen gender regardless of any medical steps. This is what some talk about when they define gender being between the ears and not the legs (hence, the brain playing a large part in who they are). I would classify myself in that category.

Quote from: lilacwoman on November 30, 2011, 04:36:06 AM
I'll go along with the 'if you don't want to go all the way you're not trans' as to wish to hang on to anything so male as a penis must show you are male and not trans enough - all the arguments for keeping a penis are also male orientated.

Calling a woman male, or a man female, due to their genitalia, is misgendering, which is against TOS.

Z

Quote from: Annah on December 02, 2011, 10:43:27 PM
Well, some will agree with you and others will disagree with you. It's all dependent on the individual.

For some trans, they do try to reach a personal threshold where they no longer wish to be a trans or assume whatever goals to be completed to reach a point where they feel they are no longer trans.

Then you have some who embrace the concept of trans and has no desire to lose that part of themselves.

Then you have others who could care less either way.

You have trans who determine their gender (and the gender of other trans) by what medical steps they had taken in their lives.

You have other trans who determine their gender by who they are inside and medical steps may be steps to help them feel better about it but they will say they are of their chosen gender regardless of any medical steps. This is what some talk about when they define gender being between the ears and not the legs (hence, the brain playing a large part in who they are). I would classify myself in that category.

I still think, you don't understand me.
I know there are different kinds of people, with different needs.
I know everyone has a different goal in life and everyone think differently.
But, if one have set a goal, for example to become a woman, when all the steps are taken and the goal is reached, the journey is over.
One is trans during that journey, now the journey is over, the trans stage is over.
Everyone has different goals and I agree that everything is starting from the brain, how do you see yourself, the rotten feeling to be in the wrong gender and the need to do something about that.
How far someone will go to reach that goal is individual, we can have different point of view about it but the main thing is, that someone is happy in life.
As long as you're travelling to reach that goal, you're trans, when you reach that goal.....game over.

There are people travelling for a lifetime, they are trans for their lifetime, on their way from one point to another.
Everybody has different views about it.
For me being a woman is a lot different than wearing cute clothes and just pass and look pretty, it's the total life of a woman 24/7 during the rest of my life.
I reached my goal almost 30 years ago, so I'm defenitely not trans enough, my journey is way behind my back but I still know that rotten feeling from the old days.

I'm not saying that everybody needs to do the same thing I did, I am just having a discussion about the word trans in the context of not being trans enough.

Quote from: MsDazzler on November 28, 2011, 10:18:05 PM
You know, people tend to say....

"You are not straight enough" - in other words, you are too feminine-acting to be one
"You are not lesbian enough" - in other words, you are too feminine-looking to be one
"You are not gay enough" - in other words, you are too straight-acting

So, what would "you are not trans enough" mean if a person said that?

Kia Ora Ms Daz,

::) That you pass as your newly affirmed gender  ;) It's a complement, a pass mark  ;) ;D

::) "Always look on the bright side of life !"

Metta Zenda :)

Always Look On The Bright Side of Life (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ#)