Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'll try to write as interestingly and as succinct as possible:

My whole life, since my earliest childhood memories, I have fantasized about being a woman and wanted to wear woman's clothes. I tried forgetting about it during elementary school, but it came back full force in middle school and high school. I realized at 18 that I had a huge problem and I began seeing a psychiatrist. He determined that I had autogynophilia (->-bleeped-<-). My hope was that by working with him, we could remove these thoughts and feelings. Well it didn't work. I tried going on dates, I tried testosterone replacement therapy, I tried combat sports, but nothing worked. I've always been on over 20 different anti-depressants/anxiety/sleeping pills in the past 2 years, but none of it has helped my ->-bleeped-<-. I tried 2 other psychologists. Nothing has been able to appease me.

Here I am at 20, and the problem is not better, and if anything worse. Every time I pass female clothes, I wish I was wearing them. Instead of being able to fantasize about "hot" women like Megan Fox have having sex with them, I fantasize about being women. I don't identify as homosexual though. I have been permanently depressed for several years now, locked up in my room on the internet with no friends or activities besides school.

However, the fact remains that I am already 20 years old. I'm 5'9.5 and I have a male's body. Being passable and attractive is HUGE to me. If I'm unhappy now, I would be much more unhappy being ostracized, discriminated against, or worse. Little comments wouldn't bother me, but not being able to find a job or being a victim of a hate crime is a big deal.

Here is my happiness scale to help explain the situation:
-Happiness as an unpassable, unattractive female: 1-4 / 10
-Happiness as jdinatale now: 5-7 / 10
-Happiness as a passable woman: 7-8 / 10
-Happiness as an attractive passable woman: 10/10

Here is me:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy89%2Fjdinatale%2Fresults1.jpg&hash=c813d1a70c1b136cb5cfd985990968dddce058f0)

Get another psychiatrist, autogynophilia isn't even an official diagnosis.

And testosteron replacement therapy? It sounds like your psych is still living in the 50's. Seriously, get rid of him.

Your story sounds familiar with mine.

Your age at 20, you will get real good results. I started at 24.5 and its been the best decision for me. I truly wished I started back at your age or even younger. But that is all of our wishes. So It's good that you posted this now and not wait and see. I would see a therapist (sex therapist possibly), who deals with transgenders and get going. The worst case is you realize you don't want to, but I doubt it because I've been where you are. The thing I suggest is don't wait and think about it, get started by seeing someone who truly deals with helping people to transition.

Hugs :)


Edit: BTW Here is a good source http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm (http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm)

Your psych probably read too much Blanchard. And any Blanchard is too much. Get a proper one first of all.

I think you'd be passable if you medically transitioned. Attractive is subjective. I thought a lot like you did when i started, and I'm happy with how I'm turning out, but I'm also realizing "passing" or being classically beautiful is not what's important.

I just looked up autogynophilia because I hadn't heard of it before, and that sounds pretty absurd and you need to find a new therapist, preferably one that knows what he/she is talking about.

As far as being 20, from what I've seen it's pretty much ideal that you've started looking for alternatives now, as hormones will still have awesome effect. A lot of people here seem to be in the 20-35 range I believe, and I haven't seen many people yet that weren't passing while being a while into HRT and whatnot already. And considering the photos you posted there, I'm willing to bet on good results too, as you seem to have somewhat andro features right now, clearly slightly leaning towards the masculine right now, but a good starting point nonetheless.

First of all there is no such thing as ->-bleeped-<-.  ->-bleeped-<- is a fairly unsupportable diagnosis to try and deny the existence of lesbian transwomen.

Gender identity and sexual orientation are two separate questions.  You can still be attracted to women and be a transwoman.  I and many other poster here are.

20 is not that old at all.  Until recently you couldn't have done much before 18 anyway.  You are still young enough to see much better HRT results.  Your second picture is fairly androgynous and even cute and when HRT starts to fill in your breasts I think you'd look a lot like the baby butches around here.

Of course everyone always wants to be more attractive, but you need to decide in your heart and mind if you are a woman or a man.  Don't let the physical aspects force your decision.

Quote from: Joandelynn on December 03, 2011, 03:52:44 PM
Get another psychiatrist, autogynophilia isn't even an official diagnosis.

And testosteron replacement therapy? It sounds like your psych is still living in the 50's. Seriously, get rid of him.

I can't blame him, because I was the one who suggested it, and he went along with it. I thought that if I could become pumped full of testosterone and bodybuild and do boxing/wrestling/mma, it would change these feelings.

Quote from: BrokenCode on December 03, 2011, 03:55:47 PM
Your story sounds familiar with mine.

Your age at 20, you will get real good results. I started at 24.5 and its been the best decision for me. I truly wished I started back at your age or even younger. But that is all of our wishes. So It's good that you posted this now and not wait and see. I would see a therapist (sex therapist possibly), who deals with transgenders and get going. The worst case is you realize you don't want to, but I doubt it because I've been where you are. The thing I suggest is don't wait and think about it, get started by seeing someone who truly deals with helping people to transition.

Hugs :)
Edit: BTW Here is a good source http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm (http://www.lauras-playground.com/gender_therapists.htm)

Just looking at your avatar, you seem 100% female to me. But you do have big sunglasses on. How passable / attractive do you perceive yourself as without the glasses?

Quote from: Eve87 on December 03, 2011, 03:59:48 PM
Your psych probably read too much Blanchard. And any Blanchard is too much. Get a proper one first of all.

I think you'd be passable if you medically transitioned. Attractive is subjective. I thought a lot like you did when i started, and I'm happy with how I'm turning out, but I'm also realizing "passing" or being classically beautiful is not what's important.

You're not the first person to tell me that Blanchard sucks. I agree with the classically beautiful comment, BUT I don't agree with the passable comment. If I stayed a man, I am certain that I would have a very successful prosperous career. If I transitioned and was not passable, many job opportunities would not exist for me. I'm in financial engineering, and I don't think Goldman Sach's is likely to hire someone who looks like a man dressed as a woman.

How old are you and what age did you start? You look very pretty in your avatar and I'm trying to compare my potential results.

Why the shrink diagnosed you as a autogyne is probably more due to him being a closet homosexual or pantie wearer - 50% of male population? - and has a lot of internalised shame about it so naturally he would both deny you the right to happily wear the stuff he can't and also put you on a guilt trip by telling you you are AG.  AG is what drives lots of nonTS to get vaginas.

He also might have Munchausens Syndrome by Proxy.

As your feelings started well before puberty brought sex into your life you're just a typical TS so get yourself another therapist and look around your area to find some place where you can see other TS's and try the lifestyle to see if you really are happy to spend time being female.
If you find that being dressed female and socialising with other TS seems perfectly nice and natural and not some super sex kick you'll have proof that you could transition if finances and situation allow.

Umm, I don't know what everyone is on about, you have made it pretty clear that you do not believe you are trans and it's perfectly okay to not be trans. Really it's good to not be. If you are happy living socially as a man you should not transition. And some people do self-identify as  ->-bleeped-<-cs.

You should look into the drag queen community. No they don't all look like 50 year olds in bad wigs if they actually learn makeup and stuff. A lot of them are even a lot more passable than a full-time MTF who doesn't want to learn makeup or fashion.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 03, 2011, 04:13:58 PM
Just looking at your avatar, you seem 100% female to me. But you do have big sunglasses on. How passable / attractive do you perceive yourself as without the glasses?

Thanks, Here is a more recent without glasses. I still need a haircut. I'm thinking once I get a girl hair cut, things will look much better. lol.(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1105.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh358%2FBrokenCodeXXX%2FNov_2011%2FIMAG0177.jpg&hash=f03bb64b56a301f66ccf772c45c6fb719652f738)
There is another thread on here with many girl's before and after. I think its even called before and after. The last post wasn't that long, so it should be within the first 4 pages or so.

And regarding on how I perceive myself. Well I'm still trying to see her ( I do from time to time). The hardest part is to see the girl in the mirror, just because you have seen the guy for 20 years or so. That is one of the hardest parts. Everyone else will see a girl before you do.

A) Find a new therapist

B) No, 20 isn't too old

C) 5'9" is not nearly too tall. I'm 6'1" and pass perfectly well.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 03, 2011, 04:13:58 PM

You're not the first person to tell me that Blanchard sucks. I agree with the classically beautiful comment, BUT I don't agree with the passable comment. If I stayed a man, I am certain that I would have a very successful prosperous career. If I transitioned and was not passable, many job opportunities would not exist for me. I'm in financial engineering, and I don't think Goldman Sach's is likely to hire someone who looks like a man dressed as a woman.

How old are you and what age did you start? You look very pretty in your avatar and I'm trying to compare my potential results.

I'm 24 and I've been on HRT for 8 months now. Thank you for the compliment. :)
What you say is all true. I try to pass for exactly those reasons - to be treated as a woman and not as a leper. Also safety. When I started I also told my psychiatrist it was very important that I end up both passable and attractive and I wouldn't do it if I couldn't achieve that. But now, full-time, if I had to choose between going back to living as a guy or a non-passing trans chick - I'd pick the latter. Guess I just got over it. Passing is a messed up concept - but the advantages are very real.

You said this:
-Happiness as an unpassable, unattractive female: 1-4 / 10
-Happiness as jdinatale now: 5-7 / 10
-Happiness as a passable woman: 7-8 / 10
-Happiness as an attractive passable woman: 10/10

I think if you score a 5-7 now, and a flawless transition into a passable woman only raises that by +2-+1 you probs don't need to transition. That's happier than a lot of people. =p
5"9' is pretty cool as a girl. I'm exactly 5"9' and people say I should model. o.O

I'd echo what most people are saying so far... find yourself another psychiatrist.  ->-bleeped-<- is not a diagnosis, and you wouldn't hear it from any reputable psych professional, experienced in trans issues or not. I can totally understand wanting to get a good idea of how the whole thing will turn out physically to help in your decision making process, but I really can't stress enough finding someone who knows what they're about to talk to first. It'll help with all the rest.

Quote from: BrokenCode on December 03, 2011, 04:31:25 PM
Thanks, Here is a more recent without glasses. I still need a haircut. I'm thinking once I get a girl hair cut, things will look much better. lol.(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1105.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh358%2FBrokenCodeXXX%2FNov_2011%2FIMAG0177.jpg&hash=f03bb64b56a301f66ccf772c45c6fb719652f738)
There is another thread on here with many girl's before and after. I think its even called before and after. The last post wasn't that long, so it should be within the first 4 pages or so.

And regarding on how I perceive myself. Well I'm still trying to see her ( I do from time to time). The hardest part is to see the girl in the mirror, just because you have seen the guy for 20 years or so. That is one of the hardest parts. Everyone else will see a girl before you do.

Wow, you are really really pretty...without the glasses! You started at 24.5, but how long after you started did you take that picture?

Quote from: Eve87 on December 03, 2011, 04:35:53 PM
I'm 24 and I've been on HRT for 8 months now. Thank you for the compliment. :)
What you say is all true. I try to pass for exactly those reasons - to be treated as a woman and not as a leper. Also safety. When I started I also told my psychiatrist it was very important that I end up both passable and attractive and I wouldn't do it if I couldn't achieve that. But now, full-time, if I had to choose between going back to living as a guy or a non-passing trans chick - I'd pick the latter. Guess I just got over it. Passing is a messed up concept - but the advantages are very real.

You said this:
-Happiness as an unpassable, unattractive female: 1-4 / 10
-Happiness as jdinatale now: 5-7 / 10
-Happiness as a passable woman: 7-8 / 10
-Happiness as an attractive passable woman: 10/10

I think if you score a 5-7 now, and a flawless transition into a passable woman only raises that by +2-+1 you probs don't need to transition. That's happier than a lot of people. =p
5"9' is pretty cool as a girl. I'm exactly 5"9' and people say I should model. o.O

I think saying 5-7 on happiness of me right now is generous and overstating how I feel, its just an arbitrary number, because I am actually a miserable person. I stay locked up in my room, I have no desire to go out and make friends. I don't have a single friend to my name and haven't had one in years. I just study, go to class, eat/sleep, repeat, and that is my life. I merely exist and pass the days/years by with trivialities. So I don't think 5-7 is an honest rating, being truthful to myself. I don't want to live like this anymore.

I don't think I was being clear. If I got results like this, I would be 10/10 happy. These I consider attractive:

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/f844b8c8ccb80671ba28192d3d3bf636.jpg (http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/f844b8c8ccb80671ba28192d3d3bf636.jpg)
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/ab796f172dcac679f783ca1431d16203.jpg (http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/ab796f172dcac679f783ca1431d16203.jpg)
MTF 2 year transition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCEjCHb_-Qg#)
MtF Transsexual Introduction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjWcJvtgGJE&#)
Tiffany's Vlog #4 Boy Mode (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ0uO5m6E1U#)

What I meant by "Happiness as a passable woman: 7-8 / 10" is probably skewed, I was just trying to emphasize how much I would like to be like the girls above and be pretty. I'm internally conflicted and sometimes I express myself in contradictory ways because I have so many contradictory thoughts. One moment I feel like a freak who needs more "fixing" (As evident by the Testosterone Replacement Therapy, bodybuilding, etc.) and the next moment I know this is something I want to do.

When I started transition 3 years ago at the age of 20, I had similar feelings about ' ->-bleeped-<-'.  Some things have changed since then...

Quote from: jdinatale on December 03, 2011, 03:36:39 PM
Here I am at 20, and the problem is not better, and if anything worse. Every time I pass female clothes, I wish I was wearing them. Instead of being able to fantasize about "hot" women like Megan Fox have having sex with them, I fantasize about being women. I don't identify as homosexual though. I have been permanently depressed for several years now, locked up in my room on the internet with no friends or activities besides school.

Based on my own experiences, I think I know what causes ' ->-bleeped-<-.  It's a mixture of these things: 

1) Having a female brain and female body image.  This includes the body that you'd want to share with your partner (no matter if they're male or female).
2) Never having a female body, and being forced to exist in a male body seemingly forever.
3) Social separation from girls, and being forced into a male role amidst real males.   
4) The resulting mystique of a girl's life and a girl's body.  Further, you're pressured to get close to girls, but only in a sexual way.  Now desires blur.
5a) Male hormones increasing sex drive, and *maybe* affecting your orientation in some way.  5b) Being deprived of female hormones (which a female brain normally has).

Transition changes 2, 3, 4 to various extents, and completely changes 5.  When I was at your stage, I would have said I only liked girls... and now I'm mostly interested in guys, though I can still appreciate the female form.  Weird huh?  You see, as my body became very female from HRT, and as people began seeing me as a girl including other girls, suddenly all the pressure was gone.  I just relaxed into myself.

From your photo I think you would be an attractive woman, especially at your age.

Quote from: Inanna on December 03, 2011, 06:36:25 PM
When I started transition 3 years ago at the age of 20, I had similar feelings about ' ->-bleeped-<-'.  Some things have changed since then...

Based on my own experiences, I think I know what causes ' ->-bleeped-<-.  It's a mixture of these things: 

1) Having a female brain and female body image.  This includes the body that you'd want to share with your partner (no matter if they're male or female).
2) Never having a female body, and being forced to exist in a male body seemingly forever.
3) Social separation from girls, and being forced into a male role amidst real males.   
4) The resulting mystique of a girl's life and a girl's body.  Further, you're pressured to get close to girls, but only in a sexual way.  Now desires blur.
5a) Male hormones increasing sex drive, and *maybe* affecting your orientation in some way.  5b) Being deprived of female hormones (which a female brain normally has).

Transition changes 2, 3, 4 to various extents, and completely changes 5.  When I was at your stage, I would have said I only liked girls... and now I'm mostly interested in guys, though I can still appreciate the female form.  Weird huh?  You see, as my body became very female from HRT, and as people began seeing me as a girl including other girls, suddenly all the pressure was gone.  I just relaxed into myself.

From your photo I think you would be an attractive woman, especially at your age.

So you started at 20 as well? Were you satisfied with your results? How passable/attractive do you perceive yourself as?

Response to 1-5
1) Have always wanted a female body
2) Yes I have this feeling.
3) I'm not sure what you mean here, but I have always tried to fit in with guys to no avail.
4) True for me.
5) I can't verify if those are true.

I was hoping I would get as good results as my biological twin sister. Here is me and her in this picture. I look in the mirror alot and "see" the girl, like I think I would get results.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg163.imageshack.us%2Fimg163%2F8476%2F25046919703261367687410.jpg&hash=0a477c84698c64136a9e2ecc78a62972feb54e46)

Honestly. I really understand where you are coming from. I have legitimacy issues. I think other trans women are trans women, but I'm just some dude in a dress. It has taken me a long time to realize how inaccurate the feeling is. I urge you to seek out an actual gender therapist.

I also could not agree with what Jeneva had to say anymore. It's hard to deal with wanting your body to coincide with your body, especially if you are a trans woman, and being a lesbian. It's a complete mind->-bleeped-<- and a half. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! If you need anything, let me know. My therapist is excellent, and he does skype. If you can't find anyone in your area to help deal with this person demons, contact me, and I can give you his info.

Also, I just wanted to say that you can, and would, pass just fine. Really, transitioning anywhere in your 20s is fairly young. I can only hope we can reach a point where we consider a late transitioner to be someone who is 25. I'm 6'2 and over 200lbs. Look at my pictures. I pass just fine, and I daresay, I think I am actually becoming pretty. You have so much hope for your future if you decide to do this.

You can add me to the list of people here who believe you need a new therapist.  I'll just ditto them.  ->-bleeped-<-?  WOW! 

Your dysphoria seems pretty intense.  I'm not sure if that's because you are repressing your desires or you are just totally miserable being a guy.  But the good news is 20 is still prime for transitioning well.  Once you find a good therapist and if the two of you agree transitioning is right for you, I'd say you will do pretty well.  It's pretty amazing what HRT can do.

Until you find a good therapist, do a lot of reading and ask a lot of questions.  But ultimately, you need to be the one to determine if transitioning is right for you.  Don't let anyone tell you anything and simply accept it as gospel.

Quote from: pretty on December 03, 2011, 04:25:34 PM
Umm, I don't know what everyone is on about, you have made it pretty clear that you do not believe you are trans and it's perfectly okay to not be trans. Really it's good to not be. If you are happy living socially as a man you should not transition. And some people do self-identify as  ->-bleeped-<-cs.

You should look into the drag queen community. No they don't all look like 50 year olds in bad wigs if they actually learn makeup and stuff. A lot of them are even a lot more passable than a full-time MTF who doesn't want to learn makeup or fashion.

I have no idea how you got to this with what the OP originally posted!!

Drag Queen!

This young person is exhibiting classic signs  of a transsexual (although I like the word Transgendered) but we won't go there! Drag queen is something totally different.

As far as not thinking your trans or maybe not wanting to be. That's me I hate being trans but thats what I am too most I am an average woman to my family and associates I am trans nothing I can do about it. I was where you were at 17 years of age. I knew something was up at 9. At 16 I was presenting as a girl many times. At 25 I was minutes away from meeting someone to start possible HRT (this is before internet) I decided to suppress it tried to be the guy again, got married, had children (thank GOD) then at 39 wife decided to leave almost died from depression, was constantly CD'n in which I hated but loved?? at 41 I decided I had to confront that I am a transsexual.

Three years later my children have all excepted me, I have officially changed all legal documents to match my name and gender, I am chemically castrated, I have blended into society as just another woman, I swim, go to the gym, involved in my childrens school and am out at work for the most part (different situation here) I still have a ways to go but 3 years ago I never would of thought I could do this. I have very low self esteem, introverted and associate with hardly anyone. If I can do this trust me, anyone can. It has taken me awhile but for the first time in my life I think I may be able to be happy. I may never get to 100% but who really does?

Your young your comparing passable (blending) with attractiveness's. Most 16 year olds do not look like Selena Gomez (hope I got that right) most 20 year olds do not look like Kim Kardashian, Most 30 year olds don't look like (can't think of one LOL,most  NO! 40 year olds don't look like Cindy Crawford  you get the point. You have to like yourself before you see whats in the mirror. Passing is all that matters when first accepting yourself, after awhile it will still be important but their are way too many other aspects of being a woman that take up more time.

As far as  ->-bleeped-<-, any trans person that gets horny would be classified as this! Don't get hung up on that crap!

Shelly

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 03, 2011, 07:08:23 PM
I have no idea how you got to this with what the OP originally posted!!

Drag Queen!

This young person is exhibiting classic signs  of a transsexual (although I like the word Transgendered) but we won't go there! Drag queen is something totally different.

Drag queens friggin rock.

LOL...I've met some drag queens who look better than most TS or GGs. The techniques DQ's use can be translated into "femmeaflauge" for most transsexual women.

Thats right, let's not pretend that society doesn't consider us men in drag if we have anything remotely "male" about us. I am a part time DQ and I love it...I am also a TG performer/dancer for a few clubs in SF. Part of acknowledging yourself as trans will be knowing some can tell, some can't tell...some don't care. But the people who hate us, see us as pathetic men in dresses.

It seems that attractive is a really big deal to you here.
Not to worry, because you are an extremely attractive person.
The fact that some of your features are androgynous and pleasing to the eye will help your transition along nicely.
Also, transitioning at an earlier age gives your body less time to fully masculinize, so it's probably better to do it as early as you can.
Honestly, you should not be worried about being incapable of passing, because there are few people are truly "incapable".
However, I actually think you are one of those people who may pass a lot more quickly than other people are transitioning though.
         The only real passing issue for you is your height, because you are above the average height for a bio female ; I  have this problem too because I am way below the average height for a bio male. I'm about 5'2" - 5'3", give or take. If it were possible, I would gladly exchange heights with you, but it is not. Standing out seems like a bad thing, but even some cis-females will stand out because they are abnormally tall. I read somewhere recently the typical female model is almost always on the taller side, so tall women can be seen as exotic but in a good way. :]

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 03, 2011, 07:08:23 PM

This young person is exhibiting classic signs  of a transsexual (although I like the word Transgendered) but we won't go there! Drag queen is something totally different.

As far as not thinking your trans or maybe not wanting to be. That's me I hate being trans but thats what I am too most I am an average woman to my family and associates I am trans nothing I can do about it. I was where you were at 17 years of age. I knew something was up at 9. At 16 I was presenting as a girl many times. At 25 I was minutes away from meeting someone to start possible HRT (this is before internet) I decided to suppress it tried to be the guy again, got married, had children (thank GOD) then at 39 wife decided to leave almost died from depression, was constantly CD'n in which I hated but loved?? at 41 I decided I had to confront that I am a transsexual.

Three years later my children have all excepted me, I have officially changed all legal documents to match my name and gender, I am chemically castrated, I have blended into society as just another woman, I swim, go to the gym, involved in my childrens school and am out at work for the most part (different situation here) I still have a ways to go but 3 years ago I never would of thought I could do this. I have very low self esteem, introverted and associate with hardly anyone. If I can do this trust me, anyone can. It has taken me awhile but for the first time in my life I think I may be able to be happy. I may never get to 100% but who really does?

Your young your comparing passable (blending) with attractiveness's. Most 16 year olds do not look like Selena Gomez (hope I got that right) most 20 year olds do not look like Kim Kardashian, Most 30 year olds don't look like (can't think of one LOL,most  NO! 40 year olds don't look like Cindy Crawford  you get the point. You have to like yourself before you see whats in the mirror. Passing is all that matters when first accepting yourself, after awhile it will still be important but their are way too many other aspects of being a woman that take up more time.

As far as  ->-bleeped-<-, any trans person that gets horny would be classified as this! Don't get hung up on that crap!

Shelly

I don't think you should be forcing other people in one direction or the other if it took you 41 years to make a final decision about your own gender ;) Not everyone who ever thinks "I want to look like a woman!" should transition. A lot of cis men think that sometimes, just so ya know.

OP said they have a purely physical desire and the definition of ->-bleeped-<- encompasses that, transition is about physical changes for social reasons, not about the physical changes themselves.

I'll chime in with the gender therapist recommendation.  Start there.  A gender therapist can help with any confusion, doubts and worries.  As well, a good gender therapist will not persuade you either into or against transitioning.

Quote from: stldrmgrl on December 03, 2011, 08:24:56 PM
I'll chime in with the gender therapist recommendation.  Start there.  A gender therapist can help with any confusion, doubts and worries.  As well, a good gender therapist will not persuade you either into or against transitioning.

  Best advice i've heard so far. I don't think we should get into the whole issue of whether ->-bleeped-<- does or doesn't exist thing and start a flame war.

  JD if you should decide to transition i'll just say you'll look great! In my opinion you have potential and your still young but even so don't expect to turn into a goddess or something, be realistic and you'll do fine.  ;)

It has been said but I will also say it.

->-bleeped-<- theory is bunk.

Get into see a proper gender therapist.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 03, 2011, 06:18:49 PM
Wow, you are really really pretty...without the glasses! You started at 24.5, but how long after you started did you take that picture?

:icon_redface:  Thanks.

Yeah I started at 24.5 around March of 2010. I slowly went on hormones too. So I probably was on full dose around possibly September 2010. The picture was taken November 2011. However, its really not just the hormones alone; What helps feminize more are losing weight (not ridiculously just ideal BMI range), facials, eye brow shaping(biggest thing I think), and make-up(big one too).

I also started my transition the wrong way, bad way which is DIY. Don't do it that way!! I truly didn't really know where to start at. And the therapist is the way to start.

Hugs :)

Quote from: jdinatale on December 03, 2011, 06:49:02 PM
So you started at 20 as well? Were you satisfied with your results? How passable/attractive do you perceive yourself as?

I'm passable w/out makeup.  Attractive?  That's subjective, but I kind of think so.  My mom and sister say they envy my looks, but I think that's because I'm thin and tall (5'9''ish), while they're short and weigh slightly more.   The only facial surgery I had was tracheal shave (adam's apple) and a rhinoplasty (nose).  I think you're face is more feminine than mine before HRT.

QuoteResponse to 1-5
1) Have always wanted a female body
2) Yes I have this feeling.
3) I'm not sure what you mean here, but I have always tried to fit in with guys to no avail.
4) True for me.
5) I can't verify if those are true.

I was hoping I would get as good results as my biological twin sister. Here is me and her in this picture. I look in the mirror alot and "see" the girl, like I think I would get results.

I believe you'll have very good results.  Personally I love being in my body now (never did before), it feels soft and smooth and graceful... overall I just "fit" into it perfectly.  And having breasts is awesome, sometimes I look down and just start smiling. :D 

Ok, well I officially quit taking my testosterone shot and estrogen blocker (aromatization inhibitor). It has been almost a week (I would normally do every 3rd day). Lucky for me, my body automatically produces extremely low levels of testosterone (which is why I had to get on TRT to begin with).

Quote from: JasonRX on December 03, 2011, 07:46:04 PM
It seems that attractive is a really big deal to you here.
Not to worry, because you are an extremely attractive person.
The fact that some of your features are androgynous and pleasing to the eye will help your transition along nicely.
Also, transitioning at an earlier age gives your body less time to fully masculinize, so it's probably better to do it as early as you can.
Honestly, you should not be worried about being incapable of passing, because there are few people are truly "incapable".
However, I actually think you are one of those people who may pass a lot more quickly than other people are transitioning though.
         The only real passing issue for you is your height, because you are above the average height for a bio female ; I  have this problem too because I am way below the average height for a bio male. I'm about 5'2" - 5'3", give or take. If it were possible, I would gladly exchange heights with you, but it is not. Standing out seems like a bad thing, but even some cis-females will stand out because they are abnormally tall. I read somewhere recently the typical female model is almost always on the taller side, so tall women can be seen as exotic but in a good way. :]

awwww wow, you mean that? thanks that means a lot, thanks for telling me that.

Quote from: Grave Robber 9 (from Outer Space) on December 03, 2011, 08:01:28 PM
How do you know that being an attractive "woman" will make completely happy? If you have ->-bleeped-<- you will never be a woman; you will just live fetishizing yourself and will come to realize that fact.

You have to remember that just passing takes A LOT of work. Becoming an attractive woman will take a very long time. Can you take being unpassable for any length of time?

I would also like to mention that about 95% of the attractive transwomen you see were previously effeminate gay males. For them, being a woman is only about a step up, in terms of femininity. Because they embraced their feminine side prior to transition they enjoy shopping for nice clothes, applying makeup, and the like. You probably won't.

I wouldn't transition if I were you. It just isn't worth it.

Listen, you don't know me. You don't know what I'll be "fetishing" about, and don't act like you do. First of all, not every girl is stereotypical. Not everyone wants to run out and do ballet and be a princess; I sure don't. If it's a just a fetish, then how come I experience it when my sexual drive is ZERO, how come I experience it everytime I pass female clothes, or look in the mirror? It's true that probably most TS are homosexual transsexual (sorry if that term is offensive, it's just what I've heard it called), but some are ->-bleeped-<- transsexuals.

Quote from: pretty on December 03, 2011, 08:08:20 PM
OP said they have a purely physical desire and the definition of ->-bleeped-<- encompasses that, transition is about physical changes for social reasons, not about the physical changes themselves.

I have innate desire to be a girl. Period. I have had this since my earliest memories at 2-3. Why should it matter if I'm doing it for physical reasons / myself, instead of for social reasons?

Quote from: BrokenCode on December 03, 2011, 09:19:11 PM
:icon_redface:  Thanks.

Yeah I started at 24.5 around March of 2010. I slowly went on hormones too. So I probably was on full dose around possibly September 2010. The picture was taken November 2011. However, its really not just the hormones alone; What helps feminize more are losing weight (not ridiculously just ideal BMI range), facials, eye brow shaping(biggest thing I think), and make-up(big one too).

I also started my transition the wrong way, bad way which is DIY. Don't do it that way!! I truly didn't really know where to start at. And the therapist is the way to start.

Hugs :)

Wow, again, that is really great progress, and you should be very happy with yourself. If it's not too personal, do you have any pictures of you as a guy?

I think you need some work. Now what you want to do with that statement is up to you.

Results? I am not sure. Depends on how much you put into it. Hormones aren't magical and wearing  clothes aren't all it takes. It takes a lot from within as well...

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 03, 2011, 10:15:50 PM
I think you need some work. Now what you want to do with that statement is up to you.

Results? I am not sure. Depends on how much you put into it. Hormones aren't magical and wearing  clothes aren't all it takes. It takes a lot from within as well...

  I'll echo mahsa and say it depends on how much werq (we say werq instead of work on this board lol) you put into it. Most of those girls you posted on youtube put alot of blood sweat and tears into their transition, hormones can only do so much.

  You should check out the 3 stickied threads in this section, there are alot of beautiful ts girls here.

  Again best advice i can give is to see a therapist who specializes in gender/sex issues.

  Good luck! - xo

 

Quote from: Rukia87xo on December 03, 2011, 10:32:11 PM
  I'll echo mahsa and say it depends on how much werq (we say werq instead of work on this board lol) you put into it. Most of those girls you posted on youtube put alot of blood sweat and tears into their transition, hormones can only do so much.

Dressing for your body time, wearing makeup to depreciate masculine features(foundation goes far, but this is more in depth), knowing what hairstyles to wear, dressing an appropriote fashion, knowing how to behave, etc

You can be a pretty feminine/andro boy before, but if you don't put forth the WERQ. You will look ugly, laughable, etc...

You can look like this and still make a hot chick with some werqk:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com%2Fimages01%2F2%2F819ebeceed15ba97b3dc9cd0970db7cf%2Fl.jpg&hash=7828091833f810e89dce3279e1090ce1ed38742e)


eeek... I just tell someone to look at the ones who haven't put forth work and if they want to be like that. But different strokes for different folks...

Get advice from people from many different people as well.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 03, 2011, 07:30:15 PM
Drag queens friggin rock.

LOL...I've met some drag queens who look better than most TS or GGs. The techniques DQ's use can be translated into "femmeaflauge" for most transsexual women.

Thats right, let's not pretend that society doesn't consider us men in drag if we have anything remotely "male" about us. I am a part time DQ and I love it...I am also a TG performer/dancer for a few clubs in SF. Part of acknowledging yourself as trans will be knowing some can tell, some can't tell...some don't care. But the people who hate us, see us as pathetic men in dresses.

Thats Great! Good for you!

I have nothing against queens. I'm just not one! nor am I a transgendered performer. I am not putting on an act for someones amusement, I'm sure though many are amused. Part of acknowledging your trans is not caring if someone can tell!.  Many times you don't "pass" because they know your past. Many times you "pass" because they don't know your past and sometimes you "pass" even if they do know who you are. I have told teachers I am my kids father yet they still refer to me as their mother, I have told business clients my (very) male name yet they assume I am female. Still in other situations I could look like Pamela Anderson, yet if they know my past I am still "him" or at the best trans.

You can't explain what or who you are to every single person you come out too but I don't want to be referred to as a drag queen. Just as I don't want to be referred to as a man. Drag queens are the ultimate feminine of a man, they do not care if people know they truly are a man.

Quote from: Grave Robber 9 (from Outer Space) on December 03, 2011, 08:01:28 PM
How do you know that being an attractive "woman" will make completely happy? If you have ->-bleeped-<- you will never be a woman; you will just live fetishizing yourself and will come to realize that fact.

You have to remember that just passing takes A LOT of work. Becoming an attractive woman will take a very long time. Can you take being unpassable for any length of time?

I would also like to mention that about 95% of the attractive transwomen you see were previously effeminate gay males. For them, being a woman is only about a step up, in terms of femininity. Because they embraced their feminine side prior to transition they enjoy shopping for nice clothes, applying makeup, and the like. You probably won't.

I wouldn't transition if I were you. It just isn't worth it.

Do you have any statistical proof of that 95%

So being an effeminate gay male gives someone an advantage of being an attractive transwoman.

Being a woman is just a step up? Ya sure if being a woman required only wearing makeup and dressing pretty!
I'd love to see some of these 95% have a typical conversation with a typical woman!

Quote from: jdinatale on December 03, 2011, 10:15:09 PM
Wow, again, that is really great progress, and you should be very happy with yourself. If it's not too personal, do you have any pictures of you as a guy?

Your too funny.  Of course..
This was me like 2 year before I started. I was in a bad situation then.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1105.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh358%2FBrokenCodeXXX%2FSome%2520Dude%2FITerm.jpg&hash=ccc526fa0e9e6a51926a7e45ac0c83f61df55b62)

You can also look at others on this thread page 121.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,90021.2400.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,90021.2400.html)

The therapist I was seeing when I accepted that I was trans tried to tell me I wasn't because I didn't explicitly hate my body. I got a new therapist, and I think you should too.

Someone experienced with gender issues will help you decide if transitioning is the right thing for you, and not try to make that decision for you. That being said, I myself see a difference between I have an innate desire to be a girl and I have an innate feeling that I am a girl . How small or big that difference is, and how important it is, is up to you and your therapist to figure out.

P.S. I started transitioning at 20 so no I don't think it's too late. Like Mahsa said, it just takes werq!
P.P.S. If you pay attention to the 2nd half of my video that you referenced, content-wise, you'll notice that life can become very difficult no matter how attractive you may be.

Since I'm transitioning in my fifties, 20 is no problem :laugh:

And you look like what you try for. Hormones and make-up do wonders. It just takes practice, at least I keep telling myself that.

Cindy

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 03, 2011, 11:28:30 PM
I have nothing against queens. I'm just not one! nor am I a transgendered performer. I am not putting on an act for someones amusement, I'm sure though many are amused. Part of acknowledging your trans is not caring if someone can tell!.  Many times you don't "pass" because they know your past. Many times you "pass" because they don't know your past and sometimes you "pass" even if they do know who you are. I have told teachers I am my kids father yet they still refer to me as their mother, I have told business clients my (very) male name yet they assume I am female. Still in other situations I could look like Pamela Anderson, yet if they know my past I am still "him" or at the best trans.

Maybe not to you you're not putting an act. I respect people's gender...But to certain outsiders, you're no different than me. We're in the same boat, even if my boat has smokey eye and short shorts.

People know. People aren't stupid. Some people can spot a person who once presented as a male, no matter how "fool proof" the "illusion" is. I think my DQ's friends make much better women than 90% of the TS/TG I've ever seen and I still friggin know that they are boys during the GAYTIME. Maybe because they realize that transactions is 50% mental, 25% what you're born with and 25% illusion. Yeah, it's an illusion to a certain degree and being the sorceress in this mirror ball show, I don't fall for tricks.

Listen hun, they will know you a "him" even if you get srs. People aren't naive, a majority of them just don't care.  I realize I can't and don't want to delete my past. I am proud to have been a gay man and now a Transsexual woman. But of course, those things are relative.

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 03, 2011, 11:28:30 PM

So being an effeminate gay male gives someone an advantage of being an attractive transwoman.

Being a woman is just a step up? Ya sure if being a woman required only wearing makeup and dressing pretty!

Appearance accounts for how most people perceive each other. Yeah and it was a step up...anyone who saw my boy photos knew I was extremely effeminate before. I enjoyed makeup, dancing, I was a proud gay male, etc... It is a ton of werqk even for a day to day function...... two jobs...etc

But being a ts was better path for me... NO FATS NO FEMMES still very much applies to the cisgay world at the moment. I'm not even that into straight guys, I am into HOMOSEXUAL men who like femininity... They exist. They also like a atrophied set of balls too.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 12:50:05 AM
Maybe not to you you're not putting an act. I respect people's gender...But to certain outsiders, you're no different than me. We're in the same boat, even if my boat has smokey eye and short shorts.

People know. People aren't stupid. Some people can spot a person who once presented as a male, no matter how "fool proof" the "illusion" is. I think my DQ's friends make much better women than 90% of the TS/TG I've ever seen and I still friggin know that they are boys during the GAYTIME. Maybe because they realize that transactions is 50% mental, 25% what you're born with and 25% illusion. Yeah, it's an illusion to a certain degree and being the sorceress in this mirror ball show, I don't fall for tricks.

Listen hun, they will know you a "him" even if you get srs. People aren't naive, a majority of them just don't care.  I realize I can't and don't want to delete my past. I am proud to have been a gay man and now a Transsexual woman. But of course, those things are relative.

This is not a magic trick like you make it out to be. I am not trying to play a trick on anyone! You were once a gay male and that hasn't changed too much. Your life style evolves around illusion and effeminate gayness. (these are your words)

Step out in the real world, yes sometimes people can tell but most don't even know what the **** transgendered is. I'm not trying to fool anyone that knows my past, but at times I feel like I am trying to fool the ones that don't. I am trying to get past the point of feeling like I am deceiving people but reading posts like yours doesn't help.

I have to realize your lifestyle was and will be different then mine. You would not like to be compared to me as well as I don't to you. It has taken and will take more werq sacrifice to accept and become who I was meant to be.

People aren't naive, a majority of them just don't care.

True that.

but most don't even know what the **** transgendered is
The SF Bay Area has one of the largest TG populations in the world, it would be rare here to find someone who has not met/interacted with/been around a TG person.  In some populations, like the gay subculture, the mainline department stores, theater/shows, the 'arts' community, the BurningMan people, it would be impossible NOT to know some.

Ok, back on topic, people. Can we please try not to externalize our perceptions and fears of what it means to be trans onto  jdinatale? Pretty please?

Ok, so I just want to reinstate what I said in my first post. SEEK OUT A GENDER THERAPIST. Now, for the most part, it really is up to you to decide if you are a trans woman or not. A good gender therapist will help you sort through confusions, but honestly, sans any major mental illness, if you say you are a woman, then you are a woman. Don't get hung up on trying to validate yourself. It's hard to quantify how what you feel, means that you are neurobiologically one sex, in the body of another sex. How you describe yourself and feelings, really hit close to home with me. From my perspective of your situation, it really does seem like you are a woman who is transgendered.

Of course, I don't want to impress any of my own biases on you. Do only what YOU want to do. I know that part sucks, and in my past, I just wished someone would have told me I was trans. But it can't work that way. This process is just to delicate and personal to put it into chance from another person's bias or opinions. Whatever you decide to do, please be safe and well. Again, if you need anything, send me a private message.

I just want to thank each of you for reaching out to help me, a complete stranger. I never expected to get 3 pages of really helpful responses in less than 24 hours.

My psychiatrist of 2 years made a special appointment to see me on Tuesday after hours, and I want to be prepared. I'm thinking about saying this: "Hey Dr. ____, I've been thinking about my ->-bleeped-<- a lot over the past few months. I can't get it off my mind, I think about it all day, I can't study or focus on anything else. I've been battling ->-bleeped-<- for 20 years to no avail, I've tried every anti-depressant/anxiety/sleep pill in the book, I've tried testosterone replacement therapy, I've tried bodybuilding, dating, combat sports, and everything else you've said to try. Nothing is working. I believe that I am transgendered and I would like to begin HRT. Will you prescribe me hormones?"

He's really expensive ($125, no insurance), so if you can think of anything else you think would be a good idea to add, let me know.

Anyways, I feel like this best sums up my feelings more than anything I've said:

QuoteAutogynephilic transsexuals (->-bleeped-<-s) on the other hand, transition to satisfy an intense internal urge to be the opposite gender. This urge is sometimes described as a paraphilia, a fetish, or an inverted heterosexual drive where they, attracted to women, want to become the objects of their desire. They are attracted to the female physical form, so their core sexuality is heterosexual (as men), but since their preferred object of desire is not another person but themselves, they have a very atypical and complicated sexuality. They often find it confusing, and mysterious, and while they are in the vast majority of cases originally attracted to women, their perceived sexual orientation may shift. They are not physically attracted to men but may be interested in men for other reasons, to complete their autogynephilic fantasy of themselves as a woman. Autogynephilic transsexuals are etiologically similar to transvestites. They tend to view becoming a woman as a life goal in and of itself, one they are willing to abandon important features of their life such as a wife or children, job, and being seen as a normal person in order to accomplish.

Behaviorally as men, they tend to be averagely masculine, straight acting heterosexuals. They can potentially transition at any age though most transition as adults. Unlike hsts who are never very successful socially as males, ->-bleeped-<-s often marry as men, have biological children with their wives, and lead successful lives as men before they transition. Physically they are averagely male in appearance until transition, and rarely pass in a truly convincing way as women, which is not nearly as distressing for them as it would be to a hsts because their reasons for transitioning do not depend on how well they are going to be socially adjusted after they are finished. ->-bleeped-<-s typically start out as heterosexual, gender normative, socially acceptable men and end up as homosexual (lesbian) or bisexual, gender variant, less than socially acceptable women, but given the specifics of their disorder, they are often still happier as female then male despite being less well off by most objective measures.

If he doesn't help you further with the possibility of transitioning. STOP! go to someone that doesn't view are condition as a perverse syndrome.

We all could be classified as ->-bleeped-<- in one way or another.

So as I read if your NOT ->-bleeped-<- you don't suffer from an intense internal urge to be the opposite gender. If I am just a classic trans, so to speak, I have an external urge to be the opposite sex. LOL

BS is all this is.

jdinatale: Well, there is a difference between a person with actual Gender Identity Disorder/Transsexualism and someome with  ->-bleeped-<-; A person with Transsexualism are the gender they percieve themselves as, while a person with  ->-bleeped-<- wants to be a female. Does that make sense to you?
Only you know which description of that fits you. In short, do you want to be a female or are you a female?

If you would want to be a female, for, let's say fetishistic reasons, then transitioning may be a bad idea, as the expected "kick" of being a woman will risk not meeting up to its expectations and you may, at worst, eventually instead find yourself feeling trapped in a female body. On the other hand, there are also non-transsexual persons that have changed sex, for instance, intense Transvestites and Autogynephiles and that have actually, despite not being true transsexuals, turned out happy. And simultaneously, yet others have turned out miserable. So transitioning for those reasons is pretty much a touch and go, as it could turn out either way, hence very careful consideration is a must.

If you would truly be a female trapped in a male body, however, the only option for you is really to transition, as those feelings will never go away no matter what.

Nonetheless it is worth noting that  something that goes against you actually being a female, is your willingess to take Testosterone and bodybuild to suppress the feelings, which a person with Transsexualism- in my opinion- would not willingly go though for everything in the world but would rather die.

Irregardless of what, however, you could do a fully good enough chick apparencewise, as hormones and modern days plastic surgery will work wonders for a transitioner.

However, as I said careful consideration is a must for you.

By the way, I leave the following link to a board about and for Autogynephiles. Or, Crossdreamers, as some prefer to also call themselves: http://www.crossdreamers.com/2009/08/ ->-bleeped-<--defined.html (http://www.crossdreamers.com/2009/08/%20-%3E-bleeped-%3C--defined.html)

Wow my mind is so BLOWN right now with this logic about wanting to be a girl vs you are a girl. lol.

IDK does this sound right?

If you are a girl and your body is not a girl => you are wanting to be a girl.
If you are not a girl and have a fetish of being a girl => you are wanting to be a girl
---------------------------------------------------
If you are wanting to be a girl => (you are a girl and your body is not a girl)  xor (you are not a girl and have a fetish of being a girl)


OMG Hug ;)

the idiot that wrote it states 'an intense internal urge'  - but offers no explanation of why there is this urge.  So what causes the urge?   In the case of the queen of AGs -Anne Lawrence - it was mental breakdown after being sacked for getting too interested in the vagina of a woman on the operating table - so that is hardly a good standard to judge by.

Blanchard's lifelong research into TSism is a smokescreen to cover his own 'phallophilia - love of penisses' an addiction to looking at and measuring penisses for his own pleasure as any of us who ever had to undress at home or school with brothers or other boys will know perfectly well that penisses are all shapes and sizes and if anyone did want to research for any correlation between penis size and sexual preferences it would only take a few days to check the penisses and sexual life of a large sample of men and it would be apparent that there is no correlation - but such a study would not allow Blanchard to spend 30 years or so sitting behind two way mirrors and ordering men to undress and become aroused for his own enjoyment and he wouldn't be able to sacrifice his weekends to devotedly studying videos of these men and their penisses in the solitude of his office.

Quote from: BrokenCode on December 04, 2011, 12:29:22 PM
Wow my mind is so BLOWN right now with this logic about wanting to be a girl vs you are a girl. lol.

IDK does this sound right?

If you are a girl and your body is not a girl => you are wanting to be a girl.
If you are not a girl and have a fetish of being a girl => you are wanting to be a girl
---------------------------------------------------
If you are wanting to be a girl => (you are a girl and your body is not a girl)  xor (you are not a girl and have a fetish of being a girl)


OMG Hug ;)

:laugh:

No, I meant that a person that, for instance, are a Male to female-transsexual, already are a girl, although trapped inside/with a male anatomy, so to speak, while a person that wants to be a female for more fetishistic reasons, wants to become a female.

I hope that clarified it a bit. :)

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 04, 2011, 12:03:09 PM
If he doesn't help you further with the possibility of transitioning. STOP! go to someone that doesn't view are condition as a perverse syndrome.

We all could be classified as ->-bleeped-<- in one way or another.

So as I read if your NOT ->-bleeped-<- you don't suffer from an intense internal urge to be the opposite gender. If I am just a classic trans, so to speak, I have an external urge to be the opposite sex. LOL

BS is all this is.

I don't think it is fair to assume that every MTF had a successful male-role social life, likes women and married a wife and had kids.

Some people transition because they intensely want to feel like they are a woman. Some people transition because they have a female personality that makes it impossible, frustrating and undesirable to live a normal male life. People are different. That's not BS, it's just how it is.

Quote from: Bishounen on December 04, 2011, 12:38:06 PM
:laugh:

No, I meant that a person that, for instance, are a Male to female-transsexual, already are a girl, although trapped inside/with a male anatomy, so to speak, while a person that wants to be a female for more fetishistic reasons, wants to become a female.

I hope that clarified it a bit. :)

That's exactly what I was getting at when I mentioned it in my post.

Also, @jdinatale, if you ever call a MtF a "homosexual transsexual" (what I'm assuming hsts stands for in that blip you posted), be prepared to receive a swift kick in the balls :)

Quote from: lilacwoman on December 04, 2011, 12:36:54 PM
the idiot that wrote it states 'an intense internal urge'  - but offers no explanation of why there is this urge.  So what causes the urge?   In the case of the queen of AGs -Anne Lawrence - it was mental breakdown after being sacked for getting too interested in the vagina of a woman on the operating table - so that is hardly a good standard to judge by.

Blanchard's lifelong research into TSism is a smokescreen to cover his own 'phallophilia - love of penisses' an addiction to looking at and measuring penisses for his own pleasure as any of us who ever had to undress at home or school with brothers or other boys will know perfectly well that penisses are all shapes and sizes and if anyone did want to research for any correlation between penis size and sexual preferences it would only take a few days to check the penisses and sexual life of a large sample of men and it would be apparent that there is no correlation - but such a study would not allow Blanchard to spend 30 years or so sitting behind two way mirrors and ordering men to undress and become aroused for his own enjoyment and he wouldn't be able to sacrifice his weekends to devotedly studying videos of these men and their penisses in the solitude of his office.

Interesting theory. However the queston is how much weight the theory holds that he propagates for the ->-bleeped-<--theory because he loves checking out dicks?
Almost sounds more stretching than the ->-bleeped-<--theory itself.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 03, 2011, 03:36:39 PM
I'll try to write as interestingly and as succinct as possible:

My whole life, since my earliest childhood memories, I have fantasized about being a woman and wanted to wear woman's clothes. I tried forgetting about it during elementary school, but it came back full force in middle school and high school. I realized at 18 that I had a huge problem and I began seeing a psychiatrist. He determined that I had autogynophilia (->-bleeped-<-). My hope was that by working with him, we could remove these thoughts and feelings. Well it didn't work. I tried going on dates, I tried testosterone replacement therapy, I tried combat sports, but nothing worked. I've always been on over 20 different anti-depressants/anxiety/sleeping pills in the past 2 years, but none of it has helped my ->-bleeped-<-. I tried 2 other psychologists. Nothing has been able to appease me.

Here I am at 20, and the problem is not better, and if anything worse. Every time I pass female clothes, I wish I was wearing them. Instead of being able to fantasize about "hot" women like Megan Fox have having sex with them, I fantasize about being women. I don't identify as homosexual though. I have been permanently depressed for several years now, locked up in my room on the internet with no friends or activities besides school.

However, the fact remains that I am already 20 years old. I'm 5'9.5 and I have a male's body. Being passable and attractive is HUGE to me. If I'm unhappy now, I would be much more unhappy being ostracized, discriminated against, or worse. Little comments wouldn't bother me, but not being able to find a job or being a victim of a hate crime is a big deal.

Here is my happiness scale to help explain the situation:
-Happiness as an unpassable, unattractive female: 1-4 / 10
-Happiness as jdinatale now: 5-7 / 10
-Happiness as a passable woman: 7-8 / 10
-Happiness as an attractive passable woman: 10/10

Here is me:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy89%2Fjdinatale%2Fresults1.jpg&hash=c813d1a70c1b136cb5cfd985990968dddce058f0)

I see a a pretty teen girl in the right picture. Forget about the ->-bleeped-<- BS, it does not exists. Yeah, get another therapist, but you look like a typical MTF.

Good luck young lady !

Jen61

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on December 04, 2011, 12:46:00 PM
That's exactly what I was getting at when I mentioned it in my post.

Also, @jdinatale, if you ever call a MtF a "homosexual transsexual" (what I'm assuming hsts stands for in that blip you posted), be prepared to receive a swift kick in the balls :)

I am an HSTS.... Honestly, I think a lot of Blanchards views make sense for parts of the community.

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on December 04, 2011, 12:46:00 PM
That's exactly what I was getting at when I mentioned it in my post.

Also, @jdinatale, if you ever call a MtF a "homosexual transsexual" (what I'm assuming hsts stands for in that blip you posted), be prepared to receive a swift kick in the balls :)

It's a special topic indeed. :P

Regarding "homosexual transsexual", that just sounds so weird when referring to a MTF that likes males.

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 04, 2011, 10:08:37 AM

Step out in the real world, yes sometimes people can tell but most don't even know what the **** transgendered is. I'm not trying to fool anyone that knows my past, but at times I feel like I am trying to fool the ones that don't. I am trying to get past the point of feeling like I am deceiving people but reading posts like yours doesn't help.

Really now? People aren't stupid. People know what transgenders are, even if you meet a small minority who don't.

And whats wrong with acknowledging who I am? Feminine gay males might as well be women, transsexualism is seen as many of them as a step up. This stuff isn't black and white. People are gonna have different views and different variations.

Well hun, you're a transsexual...some people are always gonna think you're deceiving them or are merely a man in costume. It's unfortunate, but true. I've often made the joke about "I am wearing a Halloween costume I can't take off" and I think thats how some people perceive us, sorry it's like that...it shouldn't be. It isn't deception, but it isn't objective reality either.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 03, 2011, 03:36:39 PM

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy89%2Fjdinatale%2Fresults1.jpg&hash=c813d1a70c1b136cb5cfd985990968dddce058f0)

I think based on the pic on the right....It's gonna take a few more years and some werqk. I see a slightly feminine male. Maybe you should explore drag/cd before you take the plunge.

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on December 04, 2011, 12:46:00 PM
That's exactly what I was getting at when I mentioned it in my post.

Also, @jdinatale, if you ever call a MtF a "homosexual transsexual" (what I'm assuming hsts stands for in that blip you posted), be prepared to receive a swift kick in the balls :)

When I initially said that in one of my older post yesterday, I prefaced it with "sorry if this is offensive, its just what I've heard it called." To me, in my opinion, the phrase makes sense in some ways. For example, I see some transsexuals as girls who once lived as homosexual males. As a male, they were effeminate gays and displayed more stereotypical gay characteristics. Being a woman comes very naturally for them because its one step up from how feminine they were before. Then I see ->-bleeped-<- transsexuals (again, sorry if this is offensive), like myself. These girls lived fairly ordinary heterosexual lifestyles as men, weren't effeminate, do not fall into stereotypes, and identify as lesbian, bisexual, or asexual.

Quote from: Bishounen on December 04, 2011, 12:38:06 PM
:laugh:

No, I meant that a person that, for instance, are a Male to female-transsexual, already are a girl, although trapped inside/with a male anatomy, so to speak, while a person that wants to be a female for more fetishistic reasons, wants to become a female.

I hope that clarified it a bit. :)

I can see why you might feel this is just a fetish. But consider what I have already stated: I have had this internal desire ever since I was 2-3 years old. Literally, my earliest memory is dressing up in my sisters' clothes. In kindergarten, I would daydream in nap time about being a girl. If it's just a fetish, then how come I experienced it long before any sex hormones were involved? How come I experience it when my sex drive is zero (due to chemical reasons like SSRI's)?

Quote from: A_Dresden_Doll on December 04, 2011, 10:38:34 AM
Ok, back on topic, people. Can we please try not to externalize our perceptions and fears of what it means to be trans onto  jdinatale? Pretty please?

Ok, so I just want to reinstate what I said in my first post. SEEK OUT A GENDER THERAPIST. Now, for the most part, it really is up to you to decide if you are a trans woman or not. A good gender therapist will help you sort through confusions, but honestly, sans any major mental illness, if you say you are a woman, then you are a woman. Don't get hung up on trying to validate yourself. It's hard to quantify how what you feel, means that you are neurobiologically one sex, in the body of another sex. How you describe yourself and feelings, really hit close to home with me. From my perspective of your situation, it really does seem like you are a woman who is transgendered.

Of course, I don't want to impress any of my own biases on you. Do only what YOU want to do. I know that part sucks, and in my past, I just wished someone would have told me I was trans. But it can't work that way. This process is just to delicate and personal to put it into chance from another person's bias or opinions. Whatever you decide to do, please be safe and well. Again, if you need anything, send me a private message.

Hey I got your private message, but for some reason I don't see a "reply" button or whatever. Maybe I don't have PM privileges because my account is new? Do you have AIM or some kind of other external communication route?

I'll respond to your message here for now: I want to at least give my psychiatrist a shot on Tuesday. He might agree and go along with this. The benefit of doing this is that he is a MD and can prescribe hormones. The therapist you mentioned is just that, a therapist, and I would still have to find a MD. However, I see a liberal endocrinologist for my testosterone replacement therapy, so I am pretty sure that he would help me in this regard. Again, let me know if you have AIM or something like that.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 12:54:09 PM
I am an HSTS.... Honestly, I think a lot of Blanchards views make sense for parts of the community.

And now we're back to potential trannier-than-thou. Blanchard and Laurence both preach division. Because I like women I'm not a transsexual, yet you are a true transsexual. The fact that I want SRS makes me less trans, than a straight transwoam that doesn't???

Please note carefully that I used DESIRE for SRS not having had it or not.  This includes those who cannot have SRS due to cost or health.

Why don't we forget the whole levels and just say you are trans or not and it doesn't matter about sexual orientation or desire for surgery, but just how the person feels.

Quote from: tekla on December 04, 2011, 10:20:18 AM
People aren't naive, a majority of them just don't care.

True that.

but most don't even know what the **** transgendered is
The SF Bay Area has one of the largest TG populations in the world, it would be rare here to find someone who has not met/interacted with/been around a TG person.  In some populations, like the gay subculture, the mainline department stores, theater/shows, the 'arts' community, the BurningMan people, it would be impossible NOT to know some.

Forgot to mention the tech/geek community. I think I had met many of the nerdy ones at SiliCon and Wondercon. But a majority of people aren't thinking when they meet someone, "Is that male or female" "is that a ->-bleeped-<-" and even then, it comes down to superficial details. People have their own lives...

However, I've went 6 months without meeting a transgender person down here. Then I went to Macys Union Square.

Quote from: Jeneva on December 04, 2011, 01:08:57 PM
And now we're back to potential trannier-than-thou. Blanchard and Laurence both preach division. Because I like women I'm not a transsexual, yet you are a true transsexual. The fact that I want SRS makes me less trans, than a straight transwoam that doesn't???

Wha? I don't care what you are. I align myself with gay males.

I am just saying I was a gay male turned ts...hence hsts...the term works for me. Maybe not for someone else and how they choose to define themselves is up to their perspective...NOT MINE.

prancing about in sisters clothes at 2/3 is usually seen as pre-homosexual activity rather than mainline TS who generally internalised the desire to crossdress.
Green's Fifty were infant crossdressers who all turned out to be gay men who claimed to hate the idea of crossdressing.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 04, 2011, 01:05:32 PM


I can see why you might feel this is just a fetish. But consider what I have already stated: I have had this internal desire ever since I was 2-3 years old. Literally, my earliest memory is dressing up in my sisters' clothes. In kindergarten, I would daydream in nap time about being a girl. If it's just a fetish, then how come I experienced it long before any sex hormones were involved? How come I experience it when my sex drive is zero (due to chemical reasons like SSRI's)?

I never said that this is just a fetish for you, I touched upon that subject and the possibility as you said yourself that you are Autogynephilic, as  ->-bleeped-<- are a Fetishistic manifestation. Plus, I explained the reasons for some transitioners- Big difference.
People transition for different reasons, Some transition because they are the gender they percieve themselves as and are simply correcting a birth defect, while others transiton because they get exited by the idea of becoming the other gender, for various reasons, and to this later scenario, fetishistic reasons can be a big factor.

As for crossdressing in early childhood.Whell, Children can have fetishes aswell, so it is really nothing odd with that at all. A child that crossdress at that age can be transsexual, transvestite or doing it for various fetishistic reasons just as a grown-up that does the same.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 01:11:17 PM
Wha? I don't care what you are. I align myself with gay males.

I am just saying I was a gay male turned ts...hence hsts...the term works for me. Maybe not for someone else and how they choose to define themselves is up to their perspective...NOT MINE.

The opposite of hsts isn't sts, but rather ->-bleeped-<-. So if you I'd as hsts then you are implicitly saying we are all ->-bleeped-<-. Saying you are hsts isn't the same as saying you are a former gay male that realized you were really TS.

Let's just toss hsts and ->-bleeped-<- and just say we are all trans.

Quote from: Bishounen on December 04, 2011, 01:00:17 PM
It's a special topic indeed. :P

Regarding "homosexual transsexual", that just sounds so weird when referring to a MTF that likes males.

From what I understand, the implication is that "homosexual transsexuals" transition only to access straight males, while "->-bleeped-<- transsexuals" transition only because of a fetish.

Either way, there is no talk of gender identity at all.  Further, how does it explain asexual or bisexual transsexuals?  Does a bisexual TS fetishize having a female body while at the same time transition to get into straight guys' pants?  ...lolwut.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 12:54:09 PM
I am an HSTS.... Honestly, I think a lot of Blanchards views make sense for parts of the community.

No, you're not. You didn't even read Blanchard, now didn't you?

According to Blanchard, a HSTS is a gay male who transitions because he wants to attract heterosexual males. But you yourself said in this thread that you transitioned because you didn't feel accepted as a femme guy in the gay community, and you also said you still prefer homosexual males. In fact, all these things that you have said scare me a bit, because a lot of people that transitioned for the same reasons as you did ended up as regretters. If I were you I would seriously think about what you are doing, are you sure that you are not running away from a problem to end up with an even bigger problem? This is not meant as an attack, it's an advice.

And now back to the topicstarter. Forget all this crap about HSTS and ->-bleeped-<- transsexuals. First of all, you look way too feminine in the right picture to be ->-bleeped-<- (if there even was such a thing). Second of all, having sexual fantasies about the female role is a perfectly normal thing for someone who has a female sexuality, and all transsexual women do have a female sexuality. Even the ones that are into men have these fantasies. In fact, it would be very suspicious if a transsexual woman saw herself in her fantasies in the male role, then something really would be wrong.

Don't listen to all the bad advice in this thread from people who hardly even figured out their own insecurities. It's absolute bull->-bleeped-<- that people can "always tell". If you truly are a woman inside, and transition young (and you still are young!), then you have a very likely chance that people will never be able to tell once you've transitioned.

So forget about all these fantasies you are having and look to who you truly are inside. And once again, go to an experienced gender therapist to help you figure this out.

Quote from: Joandelynn on December 04, 2011, 01:39:15 PM
No, you're not. You didn't even read Blanchard, now didn't you?

According to Blanchard, a HSTS is a gay male who transitions because he wants to attract heterosexual males. But you yourself said in this thread that you transitioned because you didn't feel accepted as a femme guy in the gay community, and you also said you still prefer homosexual males. In fact, all these things that you have said scare me a bit, because a lot of people that transitioned for the same reasons as you did ended up as regretters. If I were you I would seriously think about what you are doing, are you sure that you are not running away from a problem to end up with an even bigger problem? This is not meant as an attack, it's an advice.

I do date straight men too. These things aren't black and white. I transitioned for several reasons, not just the gay community and not feeling completely comfortable living as a male in it.

Not really. I have no plans for SRS, as that would be counteractive...Just some minor ffs and breast implants. I mean the men I like, like penis...But aren't ->-bleeped-<-s.

Quote from: Bishounen on December 04, 2011, 01:37:19 PM
As for your pondering over whether there are Bi's transitioning only to get straight hunks; sure there are. If there can be gay DragQueens having SRS only because they become addicted to sleeping with straight guys(Yep has actually happened), then there are probably bisexuals doing it for the same reasons aswell.

The logic of ->-bleeped-<- and HST doesn't leave room for non-sexual reasons, so by their logic a bisexual would be doing it for two totally separate sexual reasons at the same time, which just struck me as... unlikely.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 01:41:48 PM
I transitioned for several reasons

And that is impossible according to Blanchard. According to him there is only one reason why people transition, and that is sex. Either a sexual attraction to heterosexual males or a sexual attraction to yourself as a women. You really shouldn't buy into his stupid theories.

Quote from: Inanna on December 04, 2011, 01:44:01 PM
The logic of ->-bleeped-<- and HST doesn't leave room for non-sexual reasons, so by their logic a bisexual would be doing it for two totally separate sexual reasons at the same time, which just struck me as... unlikely.

Depends how one sees it. ->-bleeped-<- and HSTS are according to Blanchard's theories a bit different, although yet similar in a way.
However, I personally disagree with the HSTS-explanation for Transsexualism, so the only lable left, in my opinion, is ->-bleeped-<-, which only applies for some transitioners.
If the theory would be used for sometypes of transitioners and not as a substitute for true Transsexualism, then it would work as a perfectly reasonable diagnosis for some patients.
Pretending that there aren't people that wants to transition for fetishistic reasons is just silly. I mean, if the term is used separately it's not that it threatens the existence of real transsexuals, or anything. ::)

Quote from: Bishounen on December 04, 2011, 01:15:18 PM
I never said that this is just a fetish for you, I touched upon that subject and the possibility as you said yourself that you are Autogynephilic, as  ->-bleeped-<- are a Fetishistic manifestation. Plus, I explained the reasons for some transitioners- Big difference.
People transition for different reasons, Some transition because they are the gender they percieve themselves as and are simply correcting a birth defect, while others transiton because they get exited by the idea of becoming the other gender, for various reasons, and to this later scenario, fetishistic reasons can be a big factor.

As for crossdressing in early childhood.Whell, Children can have fetishes aswell, so it is really nothing odd with that at all. A child that crossdress at that age can be transsexual, transvestite or doing it for various fetishistic reasons just as a grown-up that does the same.

I started to CD at the age of nine. Did I do it for fetish reasons? I don't believe so, I never got any sexual gratification from it. Matter of fact I didn't know what masturbating was until about 15. After 15 I did associate my CD with being a fetish, I think because that is how so many classified it and because I did gain sexual gratification from it at times.

I never enjoyed being a CD I knew I never truly was. All I had to go by was what I read, which much is false. Once I realized this isn't what I wanted, things became so much clearer. Do I feel like CD? No! but I'm sure other people see me as that. Thats what really gets me mad. I dislike many CD"s because of that, I do not disagree with what they do, hell thats what I considered myself once but I do not associate myself with them either socially or mentally.

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on December 04, 2011, 12:46:00 PM
That's exactly what I was getting at when I mentioned it in my post.

Also, @jdinatale, if you ever call a MtF a "homosexual transsexual" (what I'm assuming hsts stands for in that blip you posted), be prepared to receive a swift kick in the balls :)

I disagree. If you intend on keeping your born anatomy and wanting to use it the same way you did before (anal) to me that is a homosexual transsexual.

What is your definition?

Oh I always hate when another MTF says "I always new I was a girl, just a boy on the outside, I never fet like a boy" Good for you! why did you stay looking like a boy so long, same damn reasons I did!

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 04, 2011, 02:51:54 PM
Oh I always hate when another MTF says "I always new I was a girl, just a boy on the outside, I never fet like a boy" Good for you! why did you stay looking like a boy so long, same damn reasons I did!

Or why did they live the male lifestyle to it's extreme...you know, getting married, having kids, joining the military, being a manly man, etc...

Boy or girl...It's all relative in the gay world. My ex boyfriend is a manly looking guy but still acts like one of the girls.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 03:27:23 PM
Or why did they live the male lifestyle to it's extreme...you know, getting married, having kids, joining the military, being a manly man, etc...

Boy or girl...It's all relative in the gay world. My ex boyfriend is a manly looking guy but still acts like one of the girls.

You know we are on opposite sides of the TG spectrum. We will have to agree to disagree.

This post started about ->-bleeped-<-, and how one feels misdiagnosed,  it has gone on to; I'm more trans then you  are! na nana nanaa na !!!

You are you, I am me!

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 04, 2011, 03:39:04 PM

You are you, I am me!

I actually have regrets not delving further into the femme stuff as a boy. Now I am essentially trapped in my boyfriends idea of how I should be and it sucks. If I want to listen to Cher all day...He calls me gay. If I dance to Britney...he calls me gay. If I invite gay people over...He calls me gay. I can't even be into fashion, without him saying I am not acting like a straight girl. Ultimately, although I had success as a straight girl... It wasn't for me.

I originally wanted to go more into being a DQ back in 2009 after my gay male life fell apart due to problems with all my ex's, but everyone thought I was a cisgirl  originally LOL LOL LOL LMAO...so wait for it...wait for it......

I became one. I don't regret it, it's been a lot of fun. But there's a huge part of my life I am not experiencing, since I have to follow this coda and be a "straight girl"... I don't regret hormones or feminizing my body... But I barely can perform due to his issues with me and him not coming out of the closet. I do consider myself a TS, but just that...No distinction of gender otherwise.

  Wow ok you guys need to stop arguing about the ->-bleeped-<- thing, you all act as if your licensed gender therapists and it's ridiculous. JD asked "is 20 to late to pass attractively?" not "should i transition if i have ->-bleeped-<-?" Give your advice on whether or not JD would pass and move on.  ::)


   JD i think you look very androgynous in the second picture and nothing i see facial wise screams out as male. Being 20 years old HRT would work great on you if transition is what you decide on doing, again see a gender therapist a.s.a.p to work all this out - goodluck!

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 01:03:35 PM
I think based on the pic on the right....It's gonna take a few more years and some werqk. I see a slightly feminine male. Maybe you should explore drag/cd before you take the plunge.

Hi, Jdinatale,


Certainly I have never seen so much attention to any introduction. OK, like in the real world this forum is populated by people from all walks of life. Some people here a porno starts, prostitutes, or ex cons. Some are professionals, cops, lawyers, contractors, trades woman, etc. Some are extreme religious, some are communists, etc; you get my point. The most important think at this nexus for you is to know that when it come to Gender Identity Dysphoria (GID) you will get a lot of advice in this forum. Most of those post are  personal experiences and , what we call in medcine "anecdotal,"  there are a few knowledgeable people who occasionally post.

I taught anatomy in a medical school for over ten years, and I can tell you that based on my knowledge of anatomy, that from your body and facial configuration and your ethnic background, you will have little problem crossing the bridge.

The first thing now should be to talk to a good therapist, one who is experience in GID, so yo can sort out your feelings. The last thing you need now is to get in the middle of some bickering old hags, do ignore the negative postings.

OO,

Jen61

QuoteI disagree. If you intend on keeping your born anatomy and wanting to use it the same way you did before (anal) to me that is a homosexual transsexual.

A woman attracted to a man is not a homosexual.

Quote from: Butterflyhugs on December 04, 2011, 07:16:04 PM
A woman attracted to a man is not a homosexual.

I didn't say anything about attraction.

I am not attracted to men, if I was I wouldn't consider myself homosexual but if I engage in anal sex with my anatomical parts I was born with I am having a homosexual sex. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct!

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 03:59:23 PM
I actually have regrets not delving further into the femme stuff as a boy. Now I am essentially trapped in my boyfriends idea of how I should be and it sucks. If I want to listen to Cher all day...He calls me gay. If I dance to Britney...he calls me gay. If I invite gay people over...He calls me gay. I can't even be into fashion, without him saying I am not acting like a straight girl. Ultimately, although I had success as a straight girl... It wasn't for me.

I originally wanted to go more into being a DQ back in 2009 after my gay male life fell apart due to problems with all my ex's, but everyone thought I was a cisgirl  originally LOL LOL LOL LMAO...so wait for it...wait for it......

I became one. I don't regret it, it's been a lot of fun. But there's a huge part of my life I am not experiencing, since I have to follow this coda and be a "straight girl"... I don't regret hormones or feminizing my body... But I barely can perform due to his issues with me and him not coming out of the closet. I do consider myself a TS, but just that...No distinction of gender otherwise.

You sure need a new therapist, and btw dump the controling BF

Quote from: Venus-Castina on December 04, 2011, 12:07:24 AM
In all honesty I can't answer your question with certainty.
I have been researching the possibilities and results of a transition between 25 and 30 and came up with virtually no data. By far most people I know transitioned between 12 and 19, and over 35. The first group ended up very convincing with only a few exceptions so I think there lies your answer. The older group had very mixed results with an inclination to not passable.
Like people mentioned before, a lot is dependant on genetics.

Gotta agree.... I am Asian and just started transitioning, but I am indeed fortunate, that being Asian help me enormously with transitioning... even without hormones, I was already passing. Now I have been on hormones for 41 days and can't wait to see the results!

Not that it hasn't been emphasized by several posts already, but I think I'll go ahead and overemphasize the point:

->-bleeped-<- DOES NOT EXIST.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 04, 2011, 07:28:43 PM
You sure need a new therapist, and btw dump the controling BF

Who are you the therapist police? LOL

I don't have a therapist...as I am fine with having a fluid identity.

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 04, 2011, 07:24:31 PM
I didn't say anything about attraction.

I am not attracted to men, if I was I wouldn't consider myself homosexual but if I engage in anal sex with my anatomical parts I was born with I am having a homosexual sex. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct!

The term "homosexual" and its antonym "heterosexual" both describe sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation describes the gender to which you are attracted (based on if it is the same or different than your own).

So yes, by definition, using the term "homosexual" is talking specifically about attraction. Thus I reiterate, a woman (and I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume everyone here at susan's considers MTF transsexuals to be women) attracted to men (a different gender than her own) is NOT A HOMOSEXUAL.

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 04, 2011, 07:24:31 PM
I didn't say anything about attraction.

I am not attracted to men, if I was I wouldn't consider myself homosexual but if I engage in anal sex with my anatomical parts I was born with I am having a homosexual sex. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct!

How would you wrap your head around an MTF/FTM relationship where they use their birth parts as normaly intended?
They are a heterosexual couple no matter how you slice it.

**just love throwing that one out to complicate the thought process's**

Quote from: Sailor_Saturn on December 04, 2011, 08:27:27 PM
Not that it hasn't been emphasized by several posts already, but I think I'll go ahead and overemphasize the point:

->-bleeped-<- DOES NOT EXIST.

Ok, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am going to see my psychiatrist of 2 years on Tuesday, at which point I will request HRT and express that I am transgendered. What are the critical points that I need to make clear to him? I was hoping to go in with a list of questions and comments to talk about.

And just so that I can have an intelligent discussion with him, why exactly is autogynophilia a whack theory that should be discarded?

Quote from: jdinatale on December 04, 2011, 09:38:06 PM
Ok, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am going to see my psychiatrist of 2 years on Tuesday, at which point I will request HRT and express that I am transgendered. What are the critical points that I need to make clear to him? I was hoping to go in with a list of questions and comments to talk about.

And just so that I can have an intelligent discussion with him, why exactly is autogynophilia a whack theory that should be discarded?

This is basically just a repost of something I posted last month in another thread.

QuoteThe ->-bleeped-<- theory is easily shot down.

Do any GG's enjoy dressing up sexy and get aroused by that?
Do any GG's enjoy functioning sexualy in a female capacity?
Do any GG's get aroused at the thought of dressing up sexy or seeing herself involved sexualy in a female way?

Do any men get aroused at thinking about themselves sexualy functioning in a male capacity?
Do any men get turned on by functioning sexually in a male fashion?
Do any men get aroused of thinking about themselves as virile and strong?

These answers are yes.

This alone kills the ->-bleeped-<- theory right there and I do not even have a degree in Psych. So if a layman can shoot this theory down so easily...the bucket has a hole and won't carry watter.

Quote from: cynthialee on December 04, 2011, 09:45:42 PM
This is basically just a repost of something I posted last month in another thread.

I'm sorry for being ignorant, but I'm still not seeing how exactly that debunks the ->-bleeped-<- theory?

jdinatale << I wish you luck!! I hope it goes well with your psychiatrist. But just a fair warning some (not all) PHD people do not like to admit when they are wrong. Its ignorance. Trust me I deal with them all the time. They can't figure out how to open a combination lock door and they blame it on the door. lol. GOOD LUCK, many hugs.



Care Bear Hug :)

Quote from: jdinatale on December 04, 2011, 10:21:25 PM
I'm sorry for being ignorant, but I'm still not seeing how exactly that debunks the ->-bleeped-<- theory?

I'll answer this from my own POV.. Whilst I may have a male body, I have a woman's mind.. As such, it's perfectly normal for me to enjoy dressing up sexy and get aroused by that or enjoy functioning sexually in a female capacity?

Quote from: kelly_aus on December 04, 2011, 11:02:45 PM
I'll answer this from my own POV.. Whilst I may have a male body, I have a woman's mind.. As such, it's perfectly normal for me to enjoy dressing up sexy and get aroused by that or enjoy functioning sexually in a female capacity?

I thought the theory was that ->-bleeped-<- people get aroused dressing in normal women's clothing (and, as some experience around here seems to indicate, underwear).

'Cuz I can tell you right now that women who get aroused cracking open a 3-pack of fruit of the loom are few and far between.  :D

Quote from: pretty on December 04, 2011, 11:18:20 PM

'Cuz I can tell you right now that women who get aroused cracking open a 3-pack of fruit of the loom are few and far between.  :D

I got horny when I opened the bag of chips.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 04, 2011, 09:38:06 PM
Ok, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am going to see my psychiatrist of 2 years on Tuesday, at which point I will request HRT and express that I am transgendered. What are the critical points that I need to make clear to him? I was hoping to go in with a list of questions and comments to talk about.

And just so that I can have an intelligent discussion with him, why exactly is autogynophilia a whack theory that should be discarded?

   I'm not going to get into why autogynophilia is or isn't a bunk theory but i will say that from what you've told us already you're not happy living as a male and your psychiatrist's treatment plan (testosterone shots, doing manly things, etc) is clearly not working so just tell him that. Tell him honestly how you feel and that you would like to explore this futher, if he disagrees and insists you continue his treatment plan then find another psychiatrist or therapist preferably one that has worked with transexuals.

   I think being on estrogen & testosterone blockers would be the real test for you. Once your T levels are lowered and your E levels are risen you'll gain a better understanding of yourself and what you really want from transition.

  Goodluck! - xo 

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 11:23:13 PM
I got horny when I opened the bag of chips.

Oh no. This is not good.  :o

You... you are actually a potato chip on the inside.

Jdinatale,
  See your psychiatrist.  There is too much on this thread already!  Be honest with you therapist and yourself. 
  Joelene

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 11:23:13 PM
I got horny when I opened the bag of chips.

Quote from: pretty on December 04, 2011, 11:46:55 PM
Oh no. This is not good.  :o

You... you are actually a potato chip on the inside.

  Sorry for getting off topic but....LMAO  :laugh:

Quote from: pretty on December 04, 2011, 11:46:55 PM
Oh no. This is not good.  :o

You... you are actually a potato chip on the inside.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froflrazzi.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F08%2Ffunny-celebrity-pictures-choo-choonext-stop-my-thighs.jpg&hash=e87ef7fda1305747e7e4fadcb77c34e114e2eca3)

Quote from: jdinatale on December 04, 2011, 10:21:25 PM
I'm sorry for being ignorant, but I'm still not seeing how exactly that debunks the ->-bleeped-<- theory?

What she means is that ->-bleeped-<- is something most women would be labeled if they woke up in a male body.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19591032 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19591032)

"By the common definition of ever having erotic arousal to the thought or image of oneself as a woman, 93% of the respondents would be classified as autogynephilic."

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 01:03:35 PM
I think based on the pic on the right....It's gonna take a few more years and some werqk. I see a slightly feminine male. Maybe you should explore drag/cd before you take the plunge.

why in the world does she have to do drag or cd before she takes the plunge? That's horrible advice.

I was sporting a beard and 380 lbs just two years ago. Hairy arms and everything. I never had to go through a "dragqueen" or "crossdresser phase." I went with my heart. I think the OP should do the same.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3156%2F5861668406_750e6bbb0e.jpg&hash=e6cf5453e258603da4fe78085be072665da36691)

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 04, 2011, 01:03:35 PM
I think based on the pic on the right....It's gonna take a few more years and some werqk. I see a slightly feminine male. Maybe you should explore drag/cd before you take the plunge.

Seriously, why? I personally think (Unless you live in SF or some other place with a similar insulated but large gay community)  going drag could hurt a transition. Wearing ridiculous make-up and having people think you are a man who dresses like a woman is gonna hurt your credability when you turn around and say "actually, i was a woman all along and now im gonna make it happen". People are just gonna be like, "sooo why the ridiculous make-up, why the ridiculous attitude?"

I believe Drag, transvestitism and transexualisms are three seperate things with overlapping areas. People do belong to multiple catagories I dont deny, but if you want people to believe its not all about sex and theatrics it might be smart to steer clear.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 03, 2011, 03:36:39 PMI realized at 18 that I had a huge problem and I began seeing a psychiatrist. He determined that I had autogynophilia (->-bleeped-<-).
[...]
I tried testosterone replacement therapy
[...]
I've always been on over 20 different anti-depressants/anxiety/sleeping pills in the past 2 years, but none of it has helped my ->-bleeped-<-.

Problem here. He diagnoses you as an autogynephile. Very well, I guess such a thing exists. But first,  ->-bleeped-<- does not exclude the possibility of transsexualism, and second... Testosterone therapy was pretty much the worse idea that psychiatrist could choose. About equivalent to making a depressed individual see images of death and destruction.

And then he tries a huge bunch of antidepressants without looking at the cause.

This leads me to believe that psychiatrist's competence should be questioned.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 03, 2011, 03:36:39 PM

Here is my happiness scale to help explain the situation:
-Happiness as an unpassable, unattractive female: 1-4 / 10
-Happiness as jdinatale now: 5-7 / 10
-Happiness as a passable woman: 7-8 / 10
-Happiness as an attractive passable woman: 10/10

Here is a point you should reflect on. If being an unpassable woman is inferior to being male, and being male about equivalent to being passable but not attractive, you should really reflect upon this. Do you want to be a woman, or to be sexy? For transition to be a good idea, for me, it's a given that being a passable woman has to be NOTABLY superiorto staying as is, and being an unpassable woman should at least not hurt happiness that much.

Also, please know that sexual reasons are never good reasons to transition. They are not a counterindication or anything, but you have to have NOTABLE reasons aside it for transition to be a good idea.

You need to know that no matter how you end up in the end, transition always includes months, or even years, of uncomfort related to the "in-between" phase. Can you do with this?

Also, even super feminine-looking guys can end up not passing at all if they get very unlucky. And even with the greatest surgeon, even though it usually goes well, sexual function is not guaranteed.

After all of these warnings, are you still sure you are a transsexual and that you want to transition? And after a couple of months, there's no going back. There are way too many cases of people who were not transsexuals who transitioned, and ended up being unhappy, or even committing suicide.  ->-bleeped-<- is one thing, but it alone does not justify transition. If you're not sure, then you should try some more psychologists, because transition will probably not help you. In the opposite case, well, go for it.

Now... Sorry for being so negative, but your case looks like one worth questioning.

Answering your question now. Even though 20 isn't the optimal age, most people transitioning at that age - which is still considered young - end up looking 100% passable. Your face is quite cute-ish, your masculine features don't look all that prominent, you're quite thin, and you're not THAT tall... Your shoulders aren't really broad, either, if you remove the well-trained muscles. If you transition and stop that muscular training, I'm confident that you will pass, and probably be attractive.

Quote from: Annah on December 05, 2011, 01:16:39 AM
why in the world does she have to do drag or cd before she takes the plunge? That's horrible advice.

I was sporting a beard and 380 lbs just two years ago. Hairy arms and everything. I never had to go through a "dragqueen" or "crossdresser phase." I went with my heart. I think the OP should do the same.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3156%2F5861668406_750e6bbb0e.jpg&hash=e6cf5453e258603da4fe78085be072665da36691)

Right on Annah, good advice !!!

Quote from: pretty on December 04, 2011, 11:18:20 PM
I thought the theory was that ->-bleeped-<- people get aroused dressing in normal women's clothing (and, as some experience around here seems to indicate, underwear).

'Cuz I can tell you right now that women who get aroused cracking open a 3-pack of fruit of the loom are few and far between.  :D

There are different cathegories of ->-bleeped-<-, according to the thesis. However, the base theory is that the person gets aroused by imagening himself as a Woman, regardless of clothing.

Quote from: El on December 05, 2011, 05:49:29 AM
Seriously, why? I personally think (Unless you live in SF or some other place with a similar insulated but large gay community)  going drag could hurt a transition. Wearing ridiculous make-up and having people think you are a man who dresses like a woman is gonna hurt your credability when you turn around and say "actually, i was a woman all along and now im gonna make it happen". People are just gonna be like, "sooo why the ridiculous make-up, why the ridiculous attitude?"

I believe Drag, transvestitism and transexualisms are three seperate things with overlapping areas. People do belong to multiple catagories I dont deny, but if you want people to believe its not all about sex and theatrics it might be smart to steer clear.

I really don't see the reason that testing other options before taking the irreversable plunge would be bad just because the T-community are afraid that someone starting out as a flamboyant drag queen discovers herself to be Transsexual.
If that was the case, a large chunk of the community would be gone with the wind already. ::)

plus, he said himself that he apparently doesn't know exactly which road would be the best for him, hence utter carefulness is needed, as just going straight ahead with a sex change without having explored other options if you are not 100% certain that this is really The correct solution for you, might turn out disasterous.

People that have chaned sex and later on, perhaps after decades later, have regretted it, all say the same thing; Explore all other options before doing this.

If he is truly transsexual, then becoming a female is the thing he needs to do, as there in that case simply are no other options for him, but if he is merely an intense crossdresser or a Crossdreamer, then changing sex could instead potentially turn into a tragedy.
Although, as stated earlier, there also are non-transsexual changers that have actually turned out happy aswell.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 04, 2011, 09:38:06 PM
Ok, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am going to see my psychiatrist of 2 years on Tuesday, at which point I will request HRT and express that I am transgendered. What are the critical points that I need to make clear to him? I was hoping to go in with a list of questions and comments to talk about.

And just so that I can have an intelligent discussion with him, why exactly is autogynophilia a whack theory that should be discarded?

->-bleeped-<- is a whack theory because its proponents offer no scientific argument for their case whatsoever. Bailey's book, "The Man Who Would be Queen", essentially posits that all MTF transsexuals are either autogynephiles or extraordinarily effeminiate gay men. That in and of itself isn't the problem, the problem is that Bailey goes on to make this hypothesis unfalsifiable by arguing that any transsexual who doesn't fit his paradigm is simply lying and actually does fall into one of his two categories (they simply won't admit it). Also, take into account that Bailey's "research" is entirely composed of an examination of anecdotal evidence and that the sample he examined was not at all representative. If there is any actually scientific argument for the existence of  ->-bleeped-<-, I have not heard it.

Think of it this way, because this is in essence what Bailey did:

Suppose I am going to investigate whether a significant proportion of young people are using meth or other hard drugs. To conduct my investigation, I gather my sample from local drug dens. What do you expect I'll find? Why yes, young people do indeed use meth in huge numbers! In fact, my entire sample of young people used meth or some other hard drug! And when young people come forward and say that they don't use meth or other hard drugs? Well, those people are lying about their drug habit for social reasons. And when they get angry about that argument and start questioning my credentials? They're politically motivated activists upset over "legitimate science" showing something they don't like.

There's a reason Bailey had to leave his university post.  *Correction: Bailey left his chairmanship voluntarily and still serves on his university's staff.

Bailey's paradigm completely disregards the fact that transwomen think of themselves as women beyond the sexual sphere. That is, in their social lives, their professional lives, their spiritual lives, transwomen consider themselves women. That's the key point, that a transwoman considers herself a woman in full. It's not a sexual fantasy she has become affixed to, it's her core gender identity, her very being. Bailey's paradigm supposes that this is so because even being treated like a woman is a sexual thrill for an MTF, a hypothesis that could never be tested.

I agree concerning  ->-bleeped-<- being completely a "witch doctor" science. However, before I go on, I do have to state that there are trans people who readily and openly believe that they are  ->-bleeped-<-cs. In my opinion, it is their body and their life so they (those who call themselves an  ->-bleeped-<-c) can do whatever they want with it.

However, I do not lower myself to that standard. I am not trying to come across as judgmental but I have a higher sense of awareness with myself other than the act that I must be REALLY REALLY gay or just someone who sexually fantasizes about being a woman. I am sure the vast majority of trans out there will agree.

It would be hard to prove I am an  ->-bleeped-<-c through it's very definitions but one would assume that I would not attend Seminary fulltime as Annah, work in the public sector, and serve in a Church if all this was a fetish for me or a chance to live out my ultra gay maleness.

The theory of  ->-bleeped-<- is just so incorrect that I hardly ever visit the discussion. Dr. Anne Lawrence really popularized it by stating she was an  ->-bleeped-<-c. She also has some deep seeded issues....one of them being she had her medical license stripped away from her by abusing her anesthesia as a doctor.

Sadly, new girls who first discover or begin to discover who they are may run into her website when searching for transgender issues. If anything, it is tragic that her website is still up.

Having a doctor call a trans an  ->-bleeped-<-c is no different than a doctor accusing someone of witchcraft because she has a mole on her body. It's not scientific, it's poor research and it's damn outright stupid. If my doctor diagnosed me as an  ->-bleeped-<-c, I would fire him right on the spot. Can you imagine a cardiologist suggesting to have leeches suck out your bad blood rather than the more modern treatments?

If your doctor diagnosed you with that (to the OP) he is either a very old man who has never bothered to look into the latest medical journals concerning transsexualism or he is just ignorant. Nevertheless, I believe him to be underpar with contemporary psychologists.

Does he also make you read the position of the stars to get a better outlook on your condition too? Because right now, he sounds like someone right out of the dark ages.

Quote from: Sailor_Saturn on December 06, 2011, 10:28:43 AMIf there is any actually scientific argument for the existence of  ->-bleeped-<-, I have not heard it.

I haven't heard of that either. But unfortunately the terms  ->-bleeped-<- and homosexual transsexual are still copied and being used by other scientists in their publications, and that bugs the hell out of me (also because it is extremely insulting to call a transsexual woman who's into men "homosexual").

Regarding the earlier debate concerning Being a female and Wanting to become a female, I provide the following account that is interesting;

QuoteA TS woman in transition recognizes autogynephilic arousal in herself, and wonders whether she is a "true" transsexual:

    I read most of your article on  ->-bleeped-<- with my mouth open or my hand up to my face. I had two initial reactions: it made me uncomfortable to read something which so closely described my crossgender urges which don't seem to fit the TS "norm"; and at the same time, it relieved me to realize that perhaps I'm not the only one who has such feelings. You may have answered a question which has shadowed me for the entire 18 months I've been in therapy.

  For all intents and purposes, I am conducting myself like the standard vanilla "woman trapped in a man's body", and the prospect of my carrying out a successful transition, including changing gender in my present job, seems to be good. But throughout all this, I have been haunted by a question which neither my therapist nor I can answer. In contrast to the so-called "true transsexuals", I do not believe myself to BE a woman, nor did I ever believe myself to BE a girl while growing up. I certainly wasn't masculine -- I played almost exclusively with girls and did not act at all macho, but I never thought I WAS a girl. My motivation for transitioning, which I have freely shared with my therapist, is not that I believe I AM a woman, but that I want to BE a woman, and that I have no question that I would be more psychologically comfortable LIVING AS a woman. But I cannot in all honesty look a genetic female in the eye and say, "I am a woman, just like you," which is the impression I get listening to other TSs I read about or write to.

    What has bothered me for so long about all this is [my belief] that to admit this is to say that I am not a "true transsexual;" hence I have no reason to transition. But if I don't transition, I ask myself, then what? How do I deal with this unbearable anxiety? Four times this year, I have decided that, for this and other reasons, I simply must remain male. And all four times, I became seriously suicidal within a week.... So, I am going with the only other option I know of which will keep me alive and functional -- be the "true transsexual," go through with transition, and keep my mouth shut regarding my confusion.

More accounts worth reading, regardless of whether one believs the ->-bleeped-<--theory itself or not, is to be found here: http://www.annelawrence.com/28narratives.html#1 (http://www.annelawrence.com/28narratives.html#1)
And here: http://www.annelawrence.com/31narratives.html#29 (http://www.annelawrence.com/31narratives.html#29)
(Yeah yeah it is linked to Anne Lawrence's site, but it's still personal stories worth reading.)

Yeah anything linked to Anne Lawrence's site is not worth reading. No offense. Look at her bibliography section; it's all materials that she had written and half of those narratives are CD erotic writings. Not my cup of tea.

It's like reading a book King Henry VIII wrote about the sanctity of Marriage.

Quote from: Annah on December 06, 2011, 01:15:49 PM
Yeah anything linked to Anne Lawrence's site is not worth reading. No offense.

It's like reading a book King Henry VIII wrote about the sanctity of Marriage.

Ofcourse, you are in your full right to not do so, although it is a bit of an odd strategy, as it basically is like saying in plain text that "I refuse to hear other peoples stories if they do not say what I want them to say".

Plus, your example with the book is limping, as the linked personal anecdotes is not written by Lawrence herself, but by other people- not her.

Quote from: Bishounen on December 06, 2011, 01:23:44 PM
Ofcourse, you are in your full right to not do so, although it is a bit of an odd strategy, as it basically is like saying in plain text that "I refuse to hear other peoples stories if they do not say what I want them to say!".

Plus, your example with the book is very limping, as the linked personal anecdotes is not written by Lawrence herself, but by other people- not her.

No offense.

I know the stories were not written by her ....I was referring to her bibliography section.

Plus, it is not me saying "I do not like what she has to say so I will not see her site."

I saw her site before. It was a joke. I read the entire site in the past. I have no desire to go back there and read out her outdated, wrong, and inaccurate beliefs on other trans.

There's a reason Bailey had to leave his university post.

And what would that be?  In October of 04, Bailey resigned as chairman of the Psychology Department, he is however  Bailey still serves as a Northwestern professor (I just looked at the facility directory) so he wasn't forced to do much of anything.  Being chairman for the most part is a suck-ass academic job that gets less than no respect^* and is often chosen on the basis of picking the least offensive person.  They put one of his classes on hold, but hes' still got his office, staff, and of course, his paycheck.  So I'm not even sure I know what your are talking about.  I am, however, convinced you don't either.


I agree concerning  ->-bleeped-<- being completely a "witch doctor" science.

When I first read that I cracked up, I was thinking, who knows maybe she does have a sense of humor.  But once I realized you were serious - well then I really, really laughed.  Just for the sake of more yucks, academic to academic about more academics, you are of course going to provide more scientific proof for your son-of-god killed turned zombie who loves you but if you don't get down on your knees to worship him you're going to hell just to prove how much he loves you thesis aren't you?





* - no research, no respect.  Big deal, you can sign a travel voucher, in most of the companies I've worked at, so could a secretary.

Quote from: Annah on December 06, 2011, 01:58:41 PM
I know the stories were not written by her ....I was referring to her bibliography section.

Plus, it is not me saying "I do not like what she has to say so I will not see her site."

I saw her site before. It was a joke. I read the entire site in the past. I have no desire to go back there and read out her outdated, wrong, and inaccurate beliefs on other trans.

Well, I have no real problem with that as I do not really agree with her opinions either.
Or perhaps rather, I agree with some of it, and I am also certain that Autogynephilic individuals/transitioners indeed do exist, but, as earlier stated, I disagree with it being an allcovering explanation, so to speak.

Anyway, I understand your standpoint.

Quote from: tekla on December 06, 2011, 02:07:35 PM

When I first read that I cracked up, I was thinking, who knows maybe she does have a sense of humor.  But once I realized you were serious - well then I really, really laughed.  Just for the sake of more yucks, academic to academic about more academics, you are of course going to provide more scientific proof for your son-of-god killed turned zombie who loves you but if you don't get down on your knees to worship him you're going to hell just to prove how much he loves you thesis aren't you?

it takes a pitiful and sad person to constantly bash another person's religion in multiple threads to get a response or try to get "under someone's skin."

Here is some advice for you and your ego: Grow up a little, start acting like your age and not a teeny bop teenager who gets off on putting others down, and stop hiding behind your countless posts here as some sort of authority figure on everything there is. Because I can see right through it.

You may see yourself as an expert of everything but I see you as a bitter and sad old person who has nothing better to do with their life but to post here constantly as some warped form of an alpha female.

Oh, and just for the record: I do not believe that Jesus was resurrected so your method of attack was pointless.

Quote from: Bishounen on December 06, 2011, 02:10:20 PM
Well, I have no real problem with that as I do not really agree with her opinions either.
Or perhaps rather, I agree with some of it, and I am also certain that Autogynephilic individuals/transitioners indeed do exist, but, as earlier stated, I disagree with it being an allcovering explanation, so to speak.

Anyway, I understand your standpoint.

Oh i agree with that. I believe there are people who believe they are ->-bleeped-<-. The OP here believes it. I do believe they do exist as how they define themselves but I think, for the most part, the definition can be destructive more than it can be resourceful.

Quote from: Bishounen on December 06, 2011, 11:59:27 AM
Regarding the earlier debate concerning Being a female and Wanting to become a female, I provide the following account that is interesting;
More accounts worth reading, regardless of whether one believs the ->-bleeped-<--theory itself or not, is to be found here: http://www.annelawrence.com/28narratives.html#1 (http://www.annelawrence.com/28narratives.html#1)
And here: http://www.annelawrence.com/31narratives.html#29 (http://www.annelawrence.com/31narratives.html#29)
(Yeah yeah it is linked to Anne Lawrence's site, but it's still personal stories worth reading.)

Wow, that kind of sums of my position. I've never felt like I was a girl trapped in a guy's body, but at the same time, I have this overwhelming desire to be a girl. My experience is exactly like that exert!

I am going to see my psychiatrist in 1.5 hours, hopefully I will come out with some good news.

Quote from: Just Shelly on December 04, 2011, 07:24:31 PM
I didn't say anything about attraction.

I am not attracted to men, if I was I wouldn't consider myself homosexual but if I engage in anal sex with my anatomical parts I was born with I am having a homosexual sex. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct!

I won't comment as to the actual definition of "homosexual" as it has already been stated, however, just to keep your mind open, ciswomen too can have anal sex and by far does not constitute anything homosexual.  Such a comment suggests you perceive yourself as a man having sex with another.  When I think of "homosexual transsexual [woman]" I lean towards a transwoman being attracted to another woman.  Just my two cents, carry on...

Quote from: Annah on December 06, 2011, 02:17:19 PM
Oh i agree with that. I believe there are people who believe they are ->-bleeped-<-. The OP here believes it. I do believe they do exist as how they define themselves but I think, for the most part, the definition can be destructive more than it can be resourceful.

I definitely agree that there are indeed people that believe themselves to be Autogynephilic although in reality they are transsexuals, but I meant actual Autogynephilics, that want's to transition because of Erotic reasons, rather than Gender Identity-reasons.

For instance, in my opinion the following individuals are not transsexuals, but some type of Auto-Fetishists or possibly, to use the loaded term,  "Autogynephiles";

QuoteI am a 36 year old post-op male-to-female transsexual. I had my SRS four years ago. As long as I can remember, I always fantasized about having a woman's body. Every time I would see an attractive woman, I thought how nice it would be to actually be her. Well, now I have succeeded.

During my transition, I realized that I didn't want to be a woman, but the idea of developing breasts and being forced to become feminized became so strong that I had surgical procedures done on my face and body, up to and including SRS. I am now completely feminized and must live the rest of my life "trapped" as a female. Deep down I know I could have lived comfortably as a man, maybe just crossdressing; but now I have to present myself to the world as a female.

It's hard to describe the pleasure I have now in my womanhood. What most would feel to be a bother -- makeup in the morning, wearing bras, pantyhose, and heels -- I consider them a joy. I'm in a 24/7 masquerade party, out there fooling everyone. The joy and excitement of this is as much thrill as I need. I look in the mirror [and say], "Look what I've done to myself, and look what I now have to live with. I can't go back, or undo these permanent changes to my body. I am forced to be feminized for the rest of my life." What a turn-on! I have thought about [going back to living as a man], however, I love my 38D breasts, and at best I would be an incomplete male.

And;

QuoteI am a 35 year old M to F post-op of five years. I feel I have a unique situation. Before and during transition, all I could think of is becoming a woman. I started dressing at age 14 and wished that I could one day wake up and change into a female. I started transitioning when I turned 26. I couldn't wait till I could have SRS -- that was my ultimate goal. With each step along the way, I treasured seeing my maleness disappear while I blossomed into a woman. My erections began to wither away as my breasts began to bud. I will never forget the day when I tried to have sex with my girl friend and I just couldn't get an erection. I felt so good knowing I had lost all my manhood at that point; after that I never really had an erection again.

Finally after four years I had SRS. For the first year it was great, exploring getting to know my new body, seeing what I had missed all my life. I came to feel very comfortable with myself, and actually the desire to be a woman stopped. I didn't know what happened. I felt as though I had made a terrible mistake. After a year of still feeling the same, I began to see myself as trapped, and having to live as a woman. After a while the good feelings came back; but instead of feeling great being a woman, I now felt great being trapped as a woman.

All the difficulties associated with being one began to give me pleasure, for instance: having to wear a bra and pantyhose, having to put on makeup when you are running late in the morning, having to sit to pee, wiping myself while I remembered how easy it had been before when I could just stand and pee, having to keep up with fashion, torturing my feet in heels, knowing that I at times was judged on how I looked, and being treated as a second class person. These things turn me on greatly now, knowing what I have given up. I have begun seeing a therapist regarding my feelings, and I know that while I may have made a mistake having SRS, the truth is I really love having to pass and live with my secret regret.

This was a thread someone made just asking a simple personal question, but it has somehow degraded into petty fighting on who has the rights views.

I guess this is why we can't have nice things.

the original post was the question of should the person give up a miserable lonely male life in th ehope that transitioning to female would be better.
the attractive sister shows the potential feminising and most transitioners who persevere do claim to be happier so the only way to answer the question is to transition or at least fem up and see what it feels like knowing that it may be some months or years before feminiing seems complete.
roll the dice or toss the coin or stay miserable.

Quote from: Bishounen on December 06, 2011, 02:51:32 PM
I definitely agree that there are indeed people that believe themselves to be Autogynephilic although in reality they are transsexuals, but I meant actual Autogynephilics, that want's to transition because of Erotic reasons, rather than Gender Identity-reasons.

It's funny because people around here actually deny the identity of  ->-bleeped-<-cs because they're afraid of having too much in common with them! Isn't that ironic!  ->-bleeped-<-phobia! Haha  :D

Honestly, I'll be honest with the OP and say that to be able to as much as "pass" as a woman, jaw/chin surgery is likely needed - he does have a very large jaw and chin line that simply occurs on maybe 0.5% of the female population, that 0.5% of those women still being considered ugly regardless. Beauty is (maybe in Africa or the Medieval Days) subjective, gender usually isn't. You also do have a nose that appears more masculine than not, but I would leave that until after an improvement in the jaw and chin - it's much more common for a girl to have a masculine nose than a super-masculine jawline. One good thing is that, like me, you have very feminine eyes and having FFS will really bring them out.

Otherwise, I just don't think there's much you can do for now if you don't want the people your age to poke jokes at you. At your age (my age too) you will be joked about if you transition while literally looking very masculine, "->-bleeped-<-" will be the first thing that pops into peoples' heads. You say you won't be happy as a badly passing or very ugly female, and I say that while you still have some confidence about you (you're very good looking "as a guy" - you should at least be able to make many friends and snag high paying jobs without really even trying), try to save up enough money to have a FFS procedure or two. It's changed so many lives for the better.

Now, before anyone accuses me of being rude, the reality is that the jawline, chin, nose, and forehead are some of the features most reactive to male androgens, and these features only grow to large proportions if a body secretes a high level of those androgens. Absolutely no natal girls develop masculinizations of these features unless their body has a hormonal imbalance that causes too many growth hormones to be secreted. It just is very rare among natal females, and these features on men do hinder passing by extreme amounts, not to mention, if the person wants to achieve a generally (sexually) attractive appearance. It's what sucks about the human growth process, it's not my fault, I suffer from the effects of it more than most folks do.

Well I talked to my psychiatrist and he agreed that after 2 years of not being able to make these feelings go away, that it's a good idea to explore the other direction. He's sending me to a gender identity specialist in our city and we're going to see what she says. He says that we'll be able to determine to go on hormones and what not.

Quote from: RhinoP on December 06, 2011, 05:03:37 PM
Honestly, I'll be honest with the OP and say that to be able to as much as "pass" as a woman, jaw/chin surgery is likely needed - he does have a very large jaw and chin line that simply occurs on maybe 0.5% of the female population, that 0.5% of those women still being considered ugly regardless. Beauty is (maybe in Africa or the Medieval Days) subjective, gender usually isn't. You also do have a nose that appears more masculine than not, but I would leave that until after an improvement in the jaw and chin - it's much more common for a girl to have a masculine nose than a super-masculine jawline. One good thing is that, like me, you have very feminine eyes and having FFS will really bring them out.

Otherwise, I just don't think there's much you can do for now if you don't want the people your age to poke jokes at you. At your age (my age too) you will be joked about if you transition while literally looking very masculine, "->-bleeped-<-" will be the first thing that pops into peoples' heads. You say you won't be happy as a badly passing or very ugly female, and I say that while you still have some confidence about you (you're very good looking "as a guy" - you should at least be able to make many friends and snag high paying jobs without really even trying), try to save up enough money to have a FFS procedure or two. It's changed so many lives for the better.

Now, before anyone accuses me of being rude, the reality is that the jawline, chin, nose, and forehead are some of the features most reactive to male androgens, and these features only grow to large proportions if a body secretes a high level of those androgens. Absolutely no natal girls develop masculinizations of these features unless their body has a hormonal imbalance that causes too many growth hormones to be secreted. It just is very rare among natal females, and these features on men do hinder passing by extreme amounts, not to mention, if the person wants to achieve a generally (sexually) attractive appearance. It's what sucks about the human growth process, it's not my fault, I suffer from the effects of it more than most folks do.

No, I appreciate honesty. Lying to me and saying, "Oh you will look just like a female!" doesn't help me.

Quote from: pretty on December 06, 2011, 04:25:29 PM
It's funny because people around here actually deny the identity of  ->-bleeped-<-cs because they're afraid of having too much in common with them! Isn't that ironic!  ->-bleeped-<-phobia! Haha  :D

Actually, trans people are afraid of negative stigma associated with ->-bleeped-<- and rightly so. To assume im ->-bleeped-<- because im trans is just wrong.

Go fulltime. Youll kno what im talking about

Quote from: Annah on December 06, 2011, 05:27:10 PM
Actually, trans people are afraid of negative stigma associated with ->-bleeped-<- and rightly so. To assume im ->-bleeped-<- because im trans is just wrong.

Go fulltime. Youll kno what im talking about

I'm afraid of the negative stigma of being associated with 50 year-olds who built their family on lies and then ripped it apart but you don't see me telling them their identity doesn't exist  ;)

(Not that I would want to be associated with  ->-bleeped-<-cs either lol, but I at least try not to be hypocritical).

Wow! Brokencode that is a beautiful picture! Sorry just had to comment on it...

Quote from: BrokenCode on December 03, 2011, 04:31:25 PM
Thanks, Here is a more recent without glasses. I still need a haircut. I'm thinking once I get a girl hair cut, things will look much better. lol.(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1105.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh358%2FBrokenCodeXXX%2FNov_2011%2FIMAG0177.jpg&hash=f03bb64b56a301f66ccf772c45c6fb719652f738)
There is another thread on here with many girl's before and after. I think its even called before and after. The last post wasn't that long, so it should be within the first 4 pages or so.

And regarding on how I perceive myself. Well I'm still trying to see her ( I do from time to time). The hardest part is to see the girl in the mirror, just because you have seen the guy for 20 years or so. That is one of the hardest parts. Everyone else will see a girl before you do.

Quote from: chimera on December 06, 2011, 06:26:06 PM
Wow! Brokencode that is a beautiful picture! Sorry just had to comment on it...

+ 1 I totally agree, just Wow!

Quote from: pretty on December 06, 2011, 05:40:38 PM
I'm afraid of the negative stigma of being associated with 50 year-olds who built their family on lies and then ripped it apart but you don't see me telling them their identity doesn't exist  ;)

(Not that I would want to be associated with  ->-bleeped-<-cs either lol, but I at least try not to be hypocritical).

stereotyping a 50 year old who treated his family poorly is quite different than stereotyping a transsexual with sexual behavior of masturbating or having sex as he fantasizes about being a girl. A transsexual gets murdered a lot more for being transsexual versus a 50 year old being murdered because he is 50. You are comparing apples to hammers.

And you may want to reread my prior posts. I did say they exist but transsexuals get labeled with ->-bleeped-<- far too often by gender therapists who do not know what the hell they are doing because they haven't read a medical journal published after 1978.

Research  ->-bleeped-<- before trying to argue this over semantics.

Quote from: Annah on December 06, 2011, 06:54:00 PM
stereotyping a 50 year old who treated his family poorly is quite different than stereotyping a transsexual with sexual behavior of masturbating or having sex as he fantasizes about being a girl. A transsexual gets murdered a lot more for being transsexual versus a 50 year old being murdered because he is 50. You are comparing apples to hammers.

And you may want to reread my prior posts. I did say they exist but transsexuals get labeled with ->-bleeped-<- far too often by gender therapists who do not know what the hell they are doing because they haven't read a medical journal published after 1978.

Research  ->-bleeped-<- before trying to argue this over semantics.

Umm, I was comparing transsexuals to transsexuals, lol. Don't ask me why 50 is a common age for that type of transition  ::)

Quote from: pretty on December 06, 2011, 07:53:38 PM
Umm, I was comparing transsexuals to transsexuals, lol. Don't ask me why 50 is a common age for that type of transition  ::)

The kids are out of the house, you're on your second wife, and one is financially secure enough to follow their dream. I met a guy in the Castro who was part of ADAM2EVE transformations and told me how many of the late transitioners have the perfect "midlife crisis" to begin transition.

Which is why a lot of boomers have transitioned the last 20 years.

Charles Moser applies an analogue of Blanchard's  ->-bleeped-<- criteria for "non-homosexual transsexuals" to natal (anatomically from birth) women. 93% were classified as autogynephiles

That is really all I feel I need to say on the matter. I am soooo sick of the "your not really trans because of ______" and for the OP, I had similar feelings as you. I even lifted for a while, did muai thai, even thought about joining the military. In the end it was having a daughter that put the thoughts and feelings into suppress mode (not a good thing). I waited until I was 28 and now I'm 30 and my hormone levels are still that of a man :( to my point, get a good therapist, and seriously hash this out... the biggest thing that struck it home for me was one of my earliest memories back in 1st or 2nd grade, I always wanted to play with the girls but they would never let me so I spent a lot of time alone.

I also took T for 18 months. (right before I transitioned)

It was a desperate attempt to man up and make the GID go away. I ussed the fact I had low T to get the doctor to prescribe it for me.

I went off the deep end and bassically displayed all the classic symptoms of 'roid rage. Even though my T levels never went over 280 ng/dl I was going feral.

When I went on E and spiro I had a complete reversal of the rage.

If someone identifies as ->-bleeped-<- it means they identify with the description of the condition, real or not. It is easier to self-diagnose ->-bleeped-<- anyhow because it describes a specific set of behaviors, not just an internalized feeling of wrongness like dysphoria.

If the OP really believes they have ->-bleeped-<-, then full transition probably will not satisfy them.  Perhaps they should seek out some crossdressing groups - more likely to find acceptance there and others with similar experiences.

Perhaps ->-bleeped-<- is a terrible descriptor made by a corrupt individual, but if you don't believe the symptoms of ->-bleeped-<- exist among the trans population you're ignoring a large subset of the trans population.  I transitioned over 10 years ago and of all the transsexuals I met (as in, got to know more than a just "hello" level), transsexuals who were transitioning in full, only one DIDN'T fit the criteria for ->-bleeped-<-.  ONE!  And she became my best friend and partner in crime during transition because we had such a hard time relating to the others and because we were tired of being hit on... yeah... at the trans-support meetings.  I admit though, being a late teen, early 20, transitioning TS back then was much more of a rarity than today and probably drew the more sexually charged to us.

Quote from: brIAnna (interalia) on December 06, 2011, 10:29:18 PM
If someone identifies as ->-bleeped-<- it means they identify with the description of the condition, real or not. It is easier to self-diagnose ->-bleeped-<- anyhow because it describes a specific set of behaviors, not just an internalized feeling of wrongness like dysphoria.

If the OP really believes they have ->-bleeped-<-, then full transition probably will not satisfy them.  Perhaps they should seek out some cross dressing groups - more likely to find acceptance there and others with similar experiences.

Perhaps ->-bleeped-<- is a terrible descriptor made by a corrupt individual, but if you don't believe the symptoms of ->-bleeped-<- exist among the trans population you're ignoring a large subset of the trans population.  I transitioned over 10 years ago and of all the transsexuals I met (as in, got to know more than a just "hello" level), transsexuals who were transitioning in full, only one DIDN'T fit the criteria for ->-bleeped-<-.  ONE!  And she became my best friend and partner in crime during transition because we had such a hard time relating to the others and because we were tired of being hit on... yeah... at the trans-support meetings.  I admit though, being a late teen, early 20, transitioning TS back then was much more of a rarity than today and probably drew the more sexually charged to us.

This is why I also have a hard time relating with many in the trans community. I also don't like the word Transsexual even though I fit that category and not the Transgendered one, I don't like people associating who or "what" (to some) I am with sex. What, do I want to have sex with transients or something?

Although I don't necessarily agree with your post, I would agree that ->-bleeped-<- if it did exist would maybe describe transvestites and some cd's better.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 06, 2011, 05:26:55 PM
Well I talked to my psychiatrist and he agreed that after 2 years of not being able to make these feelings go away, that it's a good idea to explore the other direction. He's sending me to a gender identity specialist in our city and we're going to see what she says. He says that we'll be able to determine to go on hormones and what not.

I'm glad to hear it went ok. I truly hope for the best for you. Sounds like your head must be so puzzled right now of who you are.  I can relate to that.  :icon_cry2:

Quote from: chimera on December 06, 2011, 06:26:06 PM
Wow! Brokencode that is a beautiful picture! Sorry just had to comment on it...

Quote from: JennyCop on December 06, 2011, 06:28:53 PM
+ 1 I totally agree, just Wow!

OMG!! Thanks :)


Awesome Hugs everyone!!

Quote from: BrokenCode on December 06, 2011, 11:47:06 PM
I'm glad to hear it went ok. I truly hope for the best for you. Sounds like your head must be so puzzled right now of who you are.  I can relate to that.  :icon_cry2:

I'm so puzzled. One moment, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm transgendered. It explains everything. This is the right thing to do." The next moment I revert to old defense mechanism thoughts like, "No, this is stupid! You are a heterosexual male and you shouldn't be having these ridiculous thoughts! You're going to be a freak if you go down that path! You can fight through this!"

Oh and I just saw your .gif in your signature and let's just say that if I could be the heterosexual male I've tried so hard to be and I saw you walking down the street, I would be all like, "whoa, who's that girl? I've got to talk to her!"

Quote from: jdinatale on December 07, 2011, 01:01:03 AM
I'm so puzzled. One moment, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm transgendered. It explains everything. This is the right thing to do." The next moment I revert to old defense mechanism thoughts like, "No, this is stupid! You are a heterosexual male and you shouldn't be having these ridiculous thoughts! You're going to be a freak if you go down that path! You can fight through this!"

Describes me to a "T".  I had this all of my life, as with some others on this forum.  I'm glad you are seeing a gender specialist.  There was no such animal here in my city back in the 70's.  Get help while you are still young. 
  Joelene

Quote from: jdinatale on December 07, 2011, 01:01:03 AM
I'm so puzzled. One moment, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm transgendered. It explains everything. This is the right thing to do." The next moment I revert to old defense mechanism thoughts like, "No, this is stupid! You are a heterosexual male and you shouldn't be having these ridiculous thoughts! You're going to be a freak if you go down that path! You can fight through this!"

Oh and I just saw your .gif in your signature and let's just say that if I could be the heterosexual male I've tried so hard to be and I saw you walking down the street, I would be all like, "whoa, who's that girl? I've got to talk to her!"

I hear you. That almost sounded exactly like my words a few years ago. And what I realized now is living as a heterosexual male wasn't my option, it was too much pain to just stand idle by. I also didn't want to admit or live as a transgender than.  So I was stuck in this void almost of not knowing who I am. I knew I wanted to be a girl, but I wanted some other force like God to change me. Well I soon realized that If I was going to be a girl, I had to do it myself. I was really on the edge of my world and ready to jump off of it and opt myself out. I also knew that wasn't an option too. It took me 4 years to finally admit who I was and to start my path. I think 4 years was way too long. However, I feel much better now than I did before. Regardless of what path you take, if you choose to be a heterosexual male or going to transition, there both very difficult paths. However, for me the path to transition set me free and there are still bumps in the road, but I feel terrific and alive now.

So again I think you are on the right track in solving your life. The first step is to figure it out. It takes some time, but most of us discover ourselves and take the transition path.  Many girls on here are relating with you and that's good because it shows you that we were there and that this is an option for you, if you choose.

Many Giant Hugs :)

Edit: * 4 years at when I was at the void. I knew something was up when I was 6.

Tell you the truth- you do have some feminine features, like your eyes.  And 20 is quite young to transition.  As for your muscles, I've seen a few bodybuilders who have transitioned, and lost their muscle (and some who haven't) and actually pass amazingly as women.  You'll prolly pass fine, if that's what worries you.

Quote from: Annah on December 06, 2011, 06:54:00 PM
stereotyping a 50 year old who treated his family poorly is quite different than stereotyping a transsexual with sexual behavior of masturbating or having sex as he fantasizes about being a girl. A transsexual gets murdered a lot more for being transsexual versus a 50 year old being murdered because he is 50.

Damn.  And I thought it was bad when people said that God killed kittens because I was masturbating.  Now, I'm getting transsexuals murdered through direct sociological constructs?  Do I need to be completely free of sexual activity to stop the killing or is it not perverse if I perceive myself to be a woman in my day-to-day life and masturbate while thinking of being a man?  I guess if I have to choose between the two, I'd probably go with being free of sexual activity, but I'll probably just stick with causing a bunch of death.  This world may desire to take everything it can from me, but it can't take my fantasies.

or you can just stop masturbating to keep God's wraith at bay when it comes to the killing of Kittens ;)

If we can reduce the pet population by simple masturbation it is obviously our duty is to wank like crazy untill the cows come home.

:D

Quote from: cynthialee on December 07, 2011, 05:11:17 PM
If we can reduce the pet population by simple masturbation it is obviously our duty is to wank like crazy untill the cows come home.

:D

Bob Barker and every other civilized person would agree :)

Quote from: BrokenCode on December 07, 2011, 07:16:51 AM
I hear you. That almost sounded exactly like my words a few years ago. And what I realized now is living as a heterosexual male wasn't my option, it was too much pain to just stand idle by. I also didn't want to admit or live as a transgender than.  So I was stuck in this void almost of not knowing who I am. I knew I wanted to be a girl, but I wanted some other force like God to change me. Well I soon realized that If I was going to be a girl, I had to do it myself. I was really on the edge of my world and ready to jump off of it and opt myself out. I also knew that wasn't an option too. It took me 4 years to finally admit who I was and to start my path. I think 4 years was way too long. However, I feel much better now than I did before. Regardless of what path you take, if you choose to be a heterosexual male or going to transition, there both very difficult paths. However, for me the path to transition set me free and there are still bumps in the road, but I feel terrific and alive now.

So again I think you are on the right track in solving your life. The first step is to figure it out. It takes some time, but most of us discover ourselves and take the transition path.  Many girls on here are relating with you and that's good because it shows you that we were there and that this is an option for you, if you choose.

Many Giant Hugs :)

Edit: * 4 years at when I was at the void. I knew something was up when I was 6.

You mentioned God, and I was wondering if I could get your take on something. I am not a religious person. But my family is devoutly religious. I know everyone usually says that, but my family is even more so. I come from a Mormon household and if you don't know anything about Mormons, they are the most hardcore conservative Christians out there.  Even a guy getting an ear piercing is grounds for ostracism.

My parents don't know what my problem is, but they know I have a severe one and they worry themselves to death over it. They repeatedly claim that I can pray the problem away, and that with enough faith "God can heal anything." It wouldn't matter if my psychologist and I told them how I tried everything possible to live as a heterosexual male, they would still claim God could fix it. How in the world do you explain something like this to your parents who believe God can fix anything?

Hey, back when you were living as a male, did you identify as heterosexual or gay?

Quote from: jdinatale on December 07, 2011, 07:01:34 PM
You mentioned God, and I was wondering if I could get your take on something. I am not a religious person. But my family is devoutly religious. I know everyone usually says that, but my family is even more so. I come from a Mormon household and if you don't know anything about Mormons, they are the most hardcore conservative Christians out there.  Even a guy getting an ear piercing is grounds for ostracism.

My parents don't know what my problem is, but they know I have a severe one and they worry themselves to death over it. They repeatedly claim that I can pray the problem away, and that with enough faith "God can heal anything." It wouldn't matter if my psychologist and I told them how I tried everything possible to live as a heterosexual male, they would still claim God could fix it. How in the world do you explain something like this to your parents who believe God can fix anything?

Hey, back when you were living as a male, did you identify as heterosexual or gay?

I was a heterosexual male. I always liked girls and I still do. lol.

As far as with God. This is going as me assuming there is a God, so please anyone lets not have a religious debate here. Thank you. Well here it is, you ready. lol. This will be very difficult for you to explain it to your parents. My family is Roman Catholic so its a little more less hardcore.

I probably lost my faith many times in the process of my life. I felt very angry and hatred at God sometimes because he should have known that I was suppose to be a girl. However, one day I was in the pool on a float and  looking up at the sky and talking to God (of course in a matter of aspect its just me talking out loud to the sky) and I asked God to help me out with my life. At this time I was thinking about transitioning. And the craziest thing happened, was I felt truly inside myself that it was ok to do this. So after that moment, I shook it off and still decided to go through with it. So far I noticed many things have been going pretty good so far. I also felt that I'm ok and at peace with God. I'm not crazy religious or anything, but I believe. I also realized that when and if people are telling me it is a sin, I truly know its not just because of the experience I had. Another thing that gets me is that from the Old testament, you have an angry God, a punishing God. Then in the New Testament you have a Forgiving God. What what made me think about is that, say if God was first against gays and transgenders (just assume), you honestly think that there is no possibility that God didn't change his mind for thousands of years since then. I truly feel its right, because I don't feel I broke any Commandments, I am not harming anyone, in fact I am unharming myself. The way I unharmed myself is by this; I use to plan on suicide very often. So I was really afraid one day I was going to do that. So far I freed those feelings for now. I feel more connected to the world and at peace now.  So in other words if God is suppose to heal me, I truly think he showed me the way to heal myself. Remember God works in mysterious ways right. Well the way was through myself.

Anyways I hope that helps. Religion is such a hard thing because everyone has there own version of it. The true thing is I think you know deep in your heart if it is right to do, and not being influenced by others having them forcing you what you think in your heart is the right thing.

I usually don't talk too much about religion unless someone asks me. lol. In fact, I believe I shouldn't tell you what you need to believe. That's for you to decide. (If it is a test, its your test not mine).

I would just explain to your parents on how you truly feel inside and that something is telling you its ok to do this(if you do feel that of course). And you know what, sometimes family will never understand it. I always point out "Plato's allegory of the cave", it explains humans pretty well in regards experience and denial

1,000 Hugs :)

Quote from: tekla on December 06, 2011, 02:07:35 PM
There's a reason Bailey had to leave his university post.

And what would that be?  In October of 04, Bailey resigned as chairman of the Psychology Department, he is however  Bailey still serves as a Northwestern professor (I just looked at the facility directory) so he wasn't forced to do much of anything.  Being chairman for the most part is a suck-ass academic job that gets less than no respect^* and is often chosen on the basis of picking the least offensive person.  They put one of his classes on hold, but hes' still got his office, staff, and of course, his paycheck.  So I'm not even sure I know what your are talking about.  I am, however, convinced you don't either.

Alright, you got me hard on that point. He stepped down from his chairmanship voluntarily and remains on staff, so the quoted statement amounts to nothing. I will, as a result, remove it and take the claim that his pseudo-scientific nonsense had far-reaching personal consequences back. My sources greatly exaggerated the impact of the ethics violations inquiry which surrounded him, and I didn't question them thoroughly enough. I know better than to not look into something personally, but in this case I did not.

To the OP:

I should've given more even weight to the issue at hand. ->-bleeped-<- wasn't the point, nor was it the question you were asking. I'll address your actual concern, and I'm sorry I didn't earlier.

20 years old is a fairly young transition age, and from the photographs you've provided you seem to have a fairly transition-friendly skeletal structure. A number of your masculine features will soften under the influence of estrogen, so you can expect an improvement even on what you have now (which is really pretty good). You're in excellent shape, so just try to maintain your health as it makes the transition process just that much easier. If you ultimately feel that transition is right for you, I see absolutely no reason why you couldn't pass well. The biggest roadblock I see you facing is a lack of confidence.

Quote from: Sailor_Saturn on December 08, 2011, 03:20:28 PM
Alright, you got me hard on that point. He stepped down from his chairmanship voluntarily and remains on staff, so the quoted statement amounts to nothing. I will, as a result, remove it and take the claim that his pseudo-scientific nonsense had far-reaching personal consequences back. My sources greatly exaggerated the impact of the ethics violations inquiry which surrounded him, and I didn't question them thoroughly enough. I know better than to not look into something personally, but in this case I did not.

To the OP:

I should've given more even weight to the issue at hand. ->-bleeped-<- wasn't the point, nor was it the question you were asking. I'll address your actual concern, and I'm sorry I didn't earlier.

20 years old is a fairly young transition age, and from the photographs you've provided you seem to have a fairly transition-friendly skeletal structure. A number of your masculine features will soften under the influence of estrogen, so you can expect an improvement even on what you have now (which is really pretty good). You're in excellent shape, so just try to maintain your health as it makes the transition process just that much easier. If you ultimately feel that transition is right for you, I see absolutely no reason why you couldn't pass well. The biggest roadblock I see you facing is a lack of confidence.

Hvor er du ? Long Live Dennmark

Quote from: jdinatale on December 06, 2011, 02:24:10 PM
I've never felt like I was a girl trapped in a guy's body

Nor is it a recognised symptom of transsexualism. It's an ages-old cliché used to explain it to the rest of the world. It falls short because not all transsexuals feel exactly that way.

^^ Yeah, I don't think I fall into the stereotype of being a woman stuck in a man's body. I just feel like "me," if that makes any sense whatsoever. 

Well I finally told my mom tonight. She's known I've had a severe issue for 2 years now, but she didn't know what it was. It didn't go well at all. She said that I am not that way, that she would never support me in it, that it was a lie, and that I could get help and fixed, and if I pray hard enough to God that the problem will go away because "God can do anything." I had to lie to my mom and tell her that I was still trying to make these thoughts go away and that I would go to a new psychologist to try to get strategies for making these thoughts go away.

But the truth is, the gender therapist I'm going to see is going to be to help me transition, not to try to block these thoughts. Because blocking the thoughts didn't work, I tried for 20 years.

I tried making an appointment with the endocrinologist today to get on HRT. It looks like I am going to have to transition in secrecy. I only have to live at home for another 1.5 years until I graduate.

jdinatale I am so sorry you had to deal with that.

:icon_hug:

Quote from: Rain Dog on December 08, 2011, 06:11:00 PM
Nor is it a recognised symptom of transsexualism. It's an ages-old cliché used to explain it to the rest of the world. It falls short because not all transsexuals feel exactly that way.

I feel like a gay boy most of the time.

and remains on staff

Janitors, cooks and campus security are on 'staff'^*- he's a tenured professor, a faculty member at a major university.  Yeah, so he was wrong to some degree (though I've often thought that ->-bleeped-<- is just the result of someone who was told to 'go ->-bleeped-<- themselves' and didn't think it was an insult, but rather a damn good idea) but the idea behind tenure is that there is some sort of freedom to be wrong on occasion.  Like Gandhi said: Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes.  Particularly in the realm of ideas, which is what universities used to deal with before they became nothing more than post-high school job training sites.  Because, in being wrong you often open discussions that might not have happened otherwise.  Bailey got a lot of people thinking, talking, writing and discussing something that otherwise would not have been talked about at all.

his pseudo-scientific nonsense
Yeah his drivel (and he writes like a sausage at best) is pseudo-scientific nonsense - but, then again, so is all the psychology that you agree with.  There is a reason that junk like psychology and sociology is called 'social science' and not 'science'.  The reason is that true science is about predictability, which psychology and sociology fail at, and hence can not be called 'science' in the same way that Chem, Physics and Biology are.  Why anyone would take any of that stuff at the same level of serious that say physics is (approaching Veritas), well it's beyond me.  It's all just 'theory' - nothing can be proven.  It's all pseudo-scientific nonsense - 'opinion' masquerading as fact.


* - 'staff' tends to refer to people who are employed, but are not directly contributing to the main work being done.  People you need to get it done, but who are not doing it.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 08, 2011, 07:44:46 PM
I feel like a gay boy most of the time.

  Lol you're so gay you became a woman!   :o   :D

Quote from: jdinatale on December 08, 2011, 07:06:00 PM
^^ Yeah, I don't think I fall into the stereotype of being a woman stuck in a man's body. I just feel like "me," if that makes any sense whatsoever. 

Yeah that actually makes sense. lol. I felt the same way before, I really couldn't describe how it felt. Until I started to get into the transitioning more seriously, I then realized that the phrase "I am a woman stuck in a man's body" means to me that my brain is female and my body is male. I want to do girl things, dress like a girl, and look like a girl. However, I also like to do boy things as well. I then noticed that I was stereotyping what girls and boys are suppose to do. Then someone told me "Samantha" (you know who you are ;) lol.) that whatever you do is still female and you will always be you. (something like that)

Quote from: jdinatale on December 08, 2011, 07:06:00 PM
Well I finally told my mom tonight. She's known I've had a severe issue for 2 years now, but she didn't know what it was. It didn't go well at all. She said that I am not that way, that she would never support me in it, that it was a lie, and that I could get help and fixed, and if I pray hard enough to God that the problem will go away because "God can do anything." I had to lie to my mom and tell her that I was still trying to make these thoughts go away and that I would go to a new psychologist to try to get strategies for making these thoughts go away.

But the truth is, the gender therapist I'm going to see is going to be to help me transition, not to try to block these thoughts. Because blocking the thoughts didn't work, I tried for 20 years.

I tried making an appointment with the endocrinologist today to get on HRT. It looks like I am going to have to transition in secrecy. I only have to live at home for another 1.5 years until I graduate.

Yeah this made me cry a little bit. I can't even imagine how you felt. All I know is your mom is going to be a challenge for you, but don't let that discourage you. I think I now know what you mean about hardcore christian. This reminds me of a story about a kid was in the hospital with a life and death situation, and the mother didn't want anything medically done because of her faith in God. The kid died later.

Mabe you could get your mother to go to Therapy with you. And what I mean by that is you do your therapy session alone in regarding your transition. Then you do another therapy session with your mother, and don't tell your mother about the first one. This way she will think that she's going just for the transition, but in reality you both are going for her and you to cope with the situation.

I do know its very difficult to change peoples aspect on a religion when they are buried over their head with it. Any type of force that tries to break their aspect is considered evil or something.

I truly hope for the best with you. You need to hang in there. I know you can do it and it will pay off in the end. It may be a while though.


Many many Hugs ;)

Quote from: BrokenCode on December 08, 2011, 09:16:46 PM
Yeah that actually makes sense. lol. I felt the same way before, I really couldn't describe how it felt. Until I started to get into the transitioning more seriously, I then realized that the phrase "I am a woman stuck in a man's body" means to me that my brain is female and my body is male. I want to do girl things, dress like a girl, and look like a girl. However, I also like to do boy things as well. I then noticed that I was stereotyping what girls and boys are suppose to do. Then someone told me "Samantha" (you know who you are ;) lol.) that whatever you do is still female and you will always be you. (something like that)

Wow, that describes me as well. My whole life I have desired to look and dress female, but I can't describe how exactly it feels. But I also like to do traditional boy things like video games and watch mma (mixed martial arts, cage fighting, that sort of thing). I can't really think of a stereotypical girl activity I would want to go out and do. Like I don't want to run out and be a ballerina princess or something. lol

Quote
Yeah this made me cry a little bit. I can't even imagine how you felt. All I know is your mom is going to be a challenge for you, but don't let that discourage you. I think I now know what you mean about hardcore christian. This reminds me of a story about a kid was in the hospital with a life and death situation, and the mother didn't want anything medically done because of her faith in God. The kid died later.

Mabe you could get your mother to go to Therapy with you. And what I mean by that is you do your therapy session alone in regarding your transition. Then you do another therapy session with your mother, and don't tell your mother about the first one. This way she will think that she's going just for the transition, but in reality you both are going for her and you to cope with the situation.

I do know its very difficult to change peoples aspect on a religion when they are buried over their head with it. Any type of force that tries to break their aspect is considered evil or something.

I truly hope for the best with you. You need to hang in there. I know you can do it and it will pay off in the end. It may be a while though.


Many many Hugs ;)

awww, that makes me feel sad knowing that you felt sad!

Anyways, she was like, "You can't be this way. I watched you when you were first born for signs and you always acted 100% boy. You never acted like your sisters. Parents do that sort of thing, they observe for signs of pedophilia and such. If you ever decide to 'act on' your urges, I would never support you in a lie, because you are a boy and always will be. I get crazy thoughts in my head all of the time, and I don't act on them. Sometimes I get angry and feel like hurting people, but that doesn't mean I act on it."

I was thinking to myself, "What, are you really comparing being a pedophile to being transgendered? And are you really comparing violent thoughts, to thoughts of being transgendered?"

Quote from: jdinatale on December 08, 2011, 09:58:51 PM
Wow, that describes me as well. My whole life I have desired to look and dress female, but I can't describe how exactly it feels. But I also like to do traditional boy things like video games and watch mma (mixed martial arts, cage fighting, that sort of thing). I can't really think of a stereotypical girl activity I would want to go out and do. Like I don't want to run out and be a ballerina princess or something. lol

Haha, that was me. I drive a Black Challenger and these girls drove up and thought I was going to be some hot dude. lol. I also like UFC fighting and Action movies. lol. The crazy thing is now that I am transitioning I am able to try new girly things without feeling discomfort being male. It almost seems like I can act myself now and I can feel comfortable now. Like I can go in the women's department and look at bras comfortably. Or get makeup and other girly items. The awesome thing is now my friends that are girls want to hang out with me more. lol. You know it doesn't matter what you like, or how far up or down you are on the girl spectrum chart. lol. At one point I considered myself a tomboy, but then I wanted to try more girly things " and I liked it". lol. So whatever makes you feel comfortable about yourself. The good news is the Therapy will bring the real you out.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 08, 2011, 09:58:51 PM
Anyways, she was like, "You can't be this way. I watched you when you were first born for signs and you always acted 100% boy. You never acted like your sisters. Parents do that sort of thing, they observe for signs of pedophilia and such. If you ever decide to 'act on' your urges, I would never support you in a lie, because you are a boy and always will be. I get crazy thoughts in my head all of the time, and I don't act on them. Sometimes I get angry and feel like hurting people, but that doesn't mean I act on it."

I was thinking to myself, "What, are you really comparing being a pedophile to being transgendered? And are you really comparing violent thoughts, to thoughts of being transgendered?"

You know I noticed something different when I was 5 or 6. I didn't really know I wanted to be a girl until I was 8. However, I came out to my parents at age 25.78. lol. And my mom, dad, and sister had no clue that I was transgender. Another thing is not all transgenders know at an early age, some go years before knowing. Everyone is different I guess. The other thing is I'm not sure if your mom knows what Dysphoria is. The best I can say it is from my opinion, is that its a force of dissatisfaction in regarding something unmatched or unbalanced. That it can lead to depression and suicide.  Here another def on dictionary.com: a state of dissatisfaction, anxiety, restlessness, or fidgeting. (pretty close lol.) But this is pretty hard for people to understand because its an emotion or feeling that only some people experience. Say for example I and everyone in the world never experienced pain. But one day one person does. Everyone would think he/she is a faker or something else. They will never know what pain is until they actually feel it.

Sweet Hug :)

Quote from: jdinatale on December 08, 2011, 09:58:51 PM
Anyways, she was like, "You can't be this way. I watched you when you were first born for signs and you always acted 100% boy. You never acted like your sisters. Parents do that sort of thing, they observe for signs of pedophilia and such. If you ever decide to 'act on' your urges, I would never support you in a lie, because you are a boy and always will be. I get crazy thoughts in my head all of the time, and I don't act on them. Sometimes I get angry and feel like hurting people, but that doesn't mean I act on it."

I was thinking to myself, "What, are you really comparing being a pedophile to being transgendered? And are you really comparing violent thoughts, to thoughts of being transgendered?"

  My parents especially my mother said similarly things to try and persuade me out of transitioning. It sounds like she is in denial because she is afraid of losing you, this is probably really hard on her so be careful how you go about bringing up the subject. I think it would be wise to print up some information about being tg and give it to her and your sister, let them read about it and decided for their own if it's really "crazy" or not.

Quote"You can't be this way. I watched you when you were first born for signs and you always acted 100% boy. You never acted like your sisters.

  Not all ts are aware of feeling their body doesn't match their mind that early in life. The ones that do act up and insist they're the wrong gender at such an early age are according to the Benjamin scale (named after Harry Benjamin) true transsexual "high intensity" but these kind of transsexuals are quite rare. The other two labels in the Benjamin scale are true transsexual "moderate intensity"  and transsexual non-op.

  Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Scale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Scale)
   

Quote from: tekla on December 08, 2011, 07:53:21 PM
and remains on staff

Janitors, cooks and campus security are on 'staff'^*- he's a tenured professor, a faculty member at a major university.  Yeah, so he was wrong to some degree (though I've often thought that ->-bleeped-<- is just the result of someone who was told to 'go <not allowed> themselves' and didn't think it was an insult, but rather a damn good idea) but the idea behind tenure is that there is some sort of freedom to be wrong on occasion.  Like Gandhi said: Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes.  Particularly in the realm of ideas, which is what universities used to deal with before they became nothing more than post-high school job training sites.  Because, in being wrong you often open discussions that might not have happened otherwise.  Bailey got a lot of people thinking, talking, writing and discussing something that otherwise would not have been talked about at all.

his pseudo-scientific nonsense
Yeah his drivel (and he writes like a sausage at best) is pseudo-scientific nonsense - but, then again, so is all the psychology that you agree with.  There is a reason that junk like psychology and sociology is called 'social science' and not 'science'.  The reason is that true science is about predictability, which psychology and sociology fail at, and hence can not be called 'science' in the same way that Chem, Physics and Biology are.  Why anyone would take any of that stuff at the same level of serious that say physics is (approaching Veritas), well it's beyond me.  It's all just 'theory' - nothing can be proven.  It's all pseudo-scientific nonsense - 'opinion' masquerading as fact.


* - 'staff' tends to refer to people who are employed, but are not directly contributing to the main work being done.  People you need to get it done, but who are not doing it.

You have given me much to think about, Tekla. I shall do so very carefully. I'm not going to bother modifying the word "staff" in my previous post, though. I'm sure my meaning is clear enough as is, especially to a reader who reaches this page of the discussion.

Oh, my... If I were in your situation, my mother would have needed to have done so much for me before to keep her right to be considered human in my eyes. She's going to be a handful, even more so if you actually love her a lot, which is most probably the case.

You should work on making her understand that she can't know what you think nearly as much as you do, and the whole concept of transsexualism. Maybe you could find a good documentary for her to watch with you.

My father didn't react nearly as badly as this, but I still haven't forgiven him... But I didn't have very positive feelings towards him anyway.

Quote from: tekla on December 08, 2011, 07:53:21 PM
and remains on staff
There is a reason that junk like psychology and sociology is called 'social science' and not 'science'.  The reason is that true science is about predictability, which psychology and sociology fail at, and hence can not be called 'science' in the same way that Chem, Physics and Biology are.  Why anyone would take any of that stuff at the same level of serious that say physics is (approaching Veritas), well it's beyond me.  It's all just 'theory' - nothing can be proven.  It's all pseudo-scientific nonsense - 'opinion' masquerading as fact.

Add psychiatry to the psychology and sociology BS. They are all predicated in this nonsense concept that the mind is more than just the product of the brain tissue activity.

Well, I got brave and made an appointment with my endocrinologist today, the one who's been doing my TRT. January 3rd! It's very difficult to get in, so I kind of have to jump right into the HRT because that's my only appointment date.

Now, do I need some sort of note from a psychologist to give to him saying that I need HRT, or does a self-explanation do?

But then afterwards I felt incredibly guilty and sneaky as if I'm doing something really wrong and immoral behind my parent's back. Then I got scared because it finally hit me, "Whoa, you're actually going through with this." And then all of the ramifications sunk in. Like now it's beyond the fantasy I've dreamed of for 20 years, this is real life, with real consequences.

Then I got home and saw a pretty girl on facebook and thought, "Man, I'd love to be able to be the heterosexual male I've always tried to be so I could just live a happy normal life."

Then doubt sunk in. What if I'm wrong? What happens if I wake up one morning wondering, "what have I done?" and the changes are permanent?

Quote from: BrokenCode on December 08, 2011, 11:03:52 PM
Haha, that was me. I drive a Black Challenger and these girls drove up and thought I was going to be some hot dude. lol. I also like UFC fighting and Action movies. lol. The crazy thing is now that I am transitioning I am able to try new girly things without feeling discomfort being male. It almost seems like I can act myself now and I can feel comfortable now. Like I can go in the women's department and look at bras comfortably. Or get makeup and other girly items. The awesome thing is now my friends that are girls want to hang out with me more. lol. You know it doesn't matter what you like, or how far up or down you are on the girl spectrum chart. lol. At one point I considered myself a tomboy, but then I wanted to try more girly things " and I liked it". lol. So whatever makes you feel comfortable about yourself. The good news is the Therapy will bring the real you out.

I know what you mean, every time I'm in the store, I want to look at girly clothes like bras but it would be really uncomfortable doing that. Glad to see I wouldn't be the only girl who likes UFC, I'm a hardcore MMA fan, I can quote statistics, fighter biographies, all of that. I did wrestling and boxing in highschool and I just got home from a brazilian Jiu-Jitsu class. Are you more of a casual fan or a hardcore fan?

It always makes me laugh to myself because I go to jiu-jitsu and wrestling practice and smash guys, acting real manly, but secretly I have the desire to be a girl... like it would be a big shock to the boys if they knew, based on how I present myself. lol

Quote from: A on December 09, 2011, 12:28:40 PM
Oh, my... If I were in your situation, my mother would have needed to have done so much for me before to keep her right to be considered human in my eyes. She's going to be a handful, even more so if you actually love her a lot, which is most probably the case.

I think everyone loves their mom... but I LOVE my mom. I mean, I hug and kiss her everyday, tell her I love her multiple times throughout the day, we have the best relationship, like we're best friends. Same goes with my twin sister. Like it goes way beyond the typical brother sister relationship. She's my straight up best friend.

Quote from: Rukia87xo on December 09, 2011, 12:28:03 AM
  My parents especially my mother said similarly things to try and persuade me out of transitioning. It sounds like she is in denial because she is afraid of losing you, this is probably really hard on her so be careful how you go about bringing up the subject.

I think that's spot on. She repeatedly states she hates change and is scared of losing us kids and being all alone. She gets really really depressed thinking about losing us.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 09, 2011, 08:19:03 PM
Well, I got brave and made an appointment with my endocrinologist today, the one who's been doing my TRT. January 3rd! It's very difficult to get in, so I kind of have to jump right into the HRT because that's my only appointment date.

Now, do I need some sort of note from a psychologist to give to him saying that I need HRT, or does a self-explanation do?

But then afterwards I felt incredibly guilty and sneaky as if I'm doing something really wrong and immoral behind my parent's back. Then I got scared because it finally hit me, "Whoa, you're actually going through with this." And then all of the ramifications sunk in. Like now it's beyond the fantasy I've dreamed of for 20 years, this is real life, with real consequences.

Then I got home and saw a pretty girl on facebook and thought, "Man, I'd love to be able to be the heterosexual male I've always tried to be so I could just live a happy normal life."

Then doubt sunk in. What if I'm wrong? What happens if I wake up one morning wondering, "what have I done?" and the changes are permanent?

I know what you mean, every time I'm in the store, I want to look at girly clothes like bras but it would be really uncomfortable doing that. Glad to see I wouldn't be the only girl who likes UFC, I'm a hardcore MMA fan, I can quote statistics, fighter biographies, all of that. I did wrestling and boxing in highschool and I just got home from a brazilian Jiu-Jitsu class. Are you more of a casual fan or a hardcore fan?

It always makes me laugh to myself because I go to jiu-jitsu and wrestling practice and smash guys, acting real manly, but secretly I have the desire to be a girl... like it would be a big shock to the boys if they knew, based on how I present myself. lol

:) Yeah I'm more of a casual fan, if I pass it on when I'm channel surfing, I'll leave it on. lol.
Also I always wondered if I would wake up and say what have I done. But so far haven't yet. hurray ;). I think its just a what if Fear. That's why it is important to continue therapy ever so often until you are sure your complete. Another thing is I had to get a letter from a specialist such as my Therapist to authorize HRT for the doctor. So you may run into something like that where they have to evaluate you for about 3 months. However, you might actually slide in since you have been doing sessions with your psychologist for some time now.

I'm glad to see that your starting transitioning. Remember take it slow and once you get comfortable with where you are, then its time to take another step. Just don't postpone things because of Fear. You kind of have to push yourself a little bit everytime, but then you will feel much better in the end.

Wish you the best.

Happy Hug ;)

Just to flick in a little comment on what jdinatale wrote in the latest post Yesterday at 09:19:03 pm: You know- and I always say this when someone wants to transition but still feel somewhat uncertain or unwilling over losing parts of life as a male(Or female)- You can transition fully into a female and still live as a heterosexual male whenever you wish to. Just because you have a certain type of anatomy, that doesn't mean that you have to bound yourself to a specific Gender-expression and role, if you do not want to(As is also proven by the fact that there are females born with male bodies and vice versa).

You can transition fully into a female- bodily- but also live the part of a male, if you would still have those urges after transitioning.
As for sex with girls as a heterosexual male, well, there are highly professional penis prostethics avaible nowadays that looks incredibly natural and is also functional and are glued onto the skin in the croatch.

You Gender is inside of you, but Gender expression and Gender roles is for you to decide- or atleast to a part- how you want to express them.

I Can highly recommend the following thread as an example of this very topic: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,90608.0/topicseen.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,90608.0/topicseen.html)

In short, don't feel despair(If you do that) over a loss of a specific gender role when you don't have to lose that part, as you can still keep the parts of it that you want to keep(No pun ;D ).

I feel mean now. My message was confusing and confused... In short, I didn't want to say it's bad to love your mother, just that the bad attitude she has with your situation is going to cause conflicts with the love there is, and that making her understand is going to be hard without causing mutual heartbreak.

But now I feel even more useless.

...

Just don't give up, 'kay ?

I can completely understand how you feel, I have fantasized about being a girl since i was 5, and it just gradually became sexual as i developed those urges. I just turned 26, and it really took dressing and being completely made up and seeing myself as a girl to understand how I really felt. I looked in the mirror and it hit me like a brick in the face, since then it's become less and less sexual and more just something that I need. Don't wait as long as I did, I'm lucky and still look super young, and despite being tall have a pretty slender frame.

Quote from: sictransitkira on December 10, 2011, 03:05:26 PM
I can completely understand how you feel, I have fantasized about being a girl since i was 5, and it just gradually became sexual as i developed those urges. I just turned 26, and it really took dressing and being completely made up and seeing myself as a girl to understand how I really felt. I looked in the mirror and it hit me like a brick in the face, since then it's become less and less sexual and more just something that I need. Don't wait as long as I did, I'm lucky and still look super young, and despite being tall have a pretty slender frame.

It is perfectly normal that as you entered puberty a sexual component to your feminine side developed.
Happens to all girls when they hit puberty.
Part of the entire growing up thing.
:)

How do you guys handle the mixed emotions and changes of heart with transitioning?

For some girls, it's a very easy decision to transition, a real no-brainer; they have known their whole lives that they would switch genders in the blink of the eye if given the chance.

For others like me, it's a mental wrestling match as to transition or not.

This morning, I was in the car practicing my girl voice, having fun, really excited about having my endocrinologist appointment in a few weeks. By nighttime, I was back to hating these transsexual feelings, disgusted at the idea, focusing on the negatives of transitioning:

"You're a 5'10 170 pound, grown-*** man, you're going to make a fool of yourself." "You'll never get an elite job in the business/finance industry." "You're going to destroy your mom and twin sister." "You're going to wake up one day wondering 'what have I done?' and be trapped in a woman's body"

At times I feel seconds away from canceling the endocrinologist appointment, at other times I know it is the only way I will ever be satisfied in life.

At the same time, the only sexuality I have ever known has been that of a woman. Every time I have fantasized since I was 5 years old, it has been about being a woman. It's nigh impossible for me to having sexual thoughts involving me in a heterosexual relation with a woman. Don't get me wrong, I'm not attracted to men, but it's extraordinarily difficult, if not downright impossible, to get sexual thoughts involving me with a woman.

If I stayed a man, I would never be sexually satisfied, I would always be stuck in a fantasy world. I don't know what to do, it's all I think about anymore, I can't focus on studying or anything but this issue.

QuoteHow do you guys handle the mixed emotions and changes of heart with transitioning?

It's part of the whole "dysphoria" package for a lot of us.  In my case, it got worse and worse as the years progressed.  Hormones made them go away for me, though I still had a couple near changes of heart in the first several months.  Kinda like, oh god what am I doing?  If you feel better and happier on hormones, go with it.  If you don't, then stop.

QuoteIf I stayed a man, I would never be sexually satisfied, I would always be stuck in a fantasy world. I don't know what to do, it's all I think about anymore, I can't focus on studying or anything but this issue.

This worries me just a little.  You may not be sexually satisfied as a woman either, and if you aren't, you need to be happy with the rest of your life as a woman too.  There is more to life than sex... and estrogen seems to reduce sex drive for most of us.  If that doesn't sound like what you want, think long and hard to be sure of what you want before doing anything major.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 11, 2011, 06:52:18 PM
How do you guys handle the mixed emotions and changes of heart with transitioning?


"You're a 5'10 170 pound, grown-*** man, you're going to make a fool of yourself." "You'll never get an elite job in the business/finance industry." "You're going to destroy your mom and twin sister." "You're going to wake up one day wondering 'what have I done?' and be trapped in a woman's body"

Honestly, you look like my ladydragonmom out of face. HE looks exactly like you as a boy. He makes a fabulous drag queen, but he has straight up said "I love doing drag, but would never do it fulltime because I make an ugly woman". His words, not mine... But here are some issues I had...don't hate me:

Woman's body? SRS won't change your body into a woman's body...Merely a woman's sexual organs. You still have to deal with male characteristics(big hands, broad shoulders, different facial structures) and I can say from being a transgender performer. That it is gonna take a lot of WERQK to make you look even remotely feminine. It means not buying video games, losing weight, learning to properly put on makeup, learning to do hair. Being a girl isn't just throwing on girl clothes and feeling feminine. Drag queens and TG performers work our asses off every single day in our lives to present as female in public. As much as the girls here say, "I know girls like that..." I don't see big muscular women or anything else and I live in a major metropolitan City.

I wouldn't have done this if I wouldn't have succeeded. I am 5'5", 135-140 lbs.... I live in SF and yeah,...No transition is fool proof. Someone can always tell. I've had my share of issues, as I've imagined everyone here has. Am I attractive? Yes. Very. Do I date all the time? Yes. Can I pick my partners? Yes. I couldn't control the fact I was a very feminine boy growing up...It's just how the cookie crumbled.

But I feel my "womanhood" is more like, "Oh I see my opportunity to do this and go for it" more than "I am gonna kill myself if I can't be my true self". If anything, I feel as my old self just dressed as a girl. As far as I know, makeup/ffs/ba is just like me putting on a drag act, permanently 24/7...I am still an xy underneath it all ... Hence why I am still into flaming homosexual men and can relate to performers more.

But am I happy? Pretty much and I think thats what matters. I am no longer whoring myself out on Castro st. or having STD scares every month. I have people in my life who mean something...and I have the respect of many gay, lesbian, and transgender people.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 11, 2011, 07:48:37 PM
Honestly, you look like my ladydragonmom out of face. HE looks exactly like you as a boy. He makes a fabulous drag queen, but he has straight up said "I love doing drag, but would never do it fulltime because I make an ugly woman". His words, not mine... But here are some issues I had...don't hate me:

Woman's body? SRS won't change your body into a woman's body...Merely a woman's sexual organs. You still have to deal with male characteristics(big hands, broad shoulders, different facial structures) and I can say from being a transgender performer. That it is gonna take a lot of WERQK to make you look even remotely feminine. It means not buying video games, losing weight, learning to properly put on makeup, learning to do hair. Being a girl isn't just throwing on girl clothes and feeling feminine. Drag queens and TG performers work our asses off every single day in our lives to present as female in public. As much as the girls here say, "I know girls like that..." I don't see big muscular women or anything else and I live in a major metropolitan City.

I wouldn't have done this if I wouldn't have succeeded. I am 5'5", 135-140 lbs.... I live in SF and yeah,...No transition is fool proof. Someone can always tell. I've had my share of issues, as I've imagined everyone here has. Am I attractive? Yes. Very. Do I date all the time? Yes. Can I pick my partners? Yes. I couldn't control the fact I was a very feminine boy growing up...It's just how the cookie crumbled.

But I feel my "womanhood" is more like, "Oh I see my opportunity to do this and go for it" more than "I am gonna kill myself if I can't be my true self". If anything, I feel as my old self just dressed as a girl. As far as I know, makeup/ffs/ba is just like me putting on a drag act, permanently 24/7...I am still an xy underneath it all ... Hence why I am still into flaming homosexual men and can relate to performers more.

But am I happy? Pretty much and I think thats what matters. I am no longer whoring myself out on Castro st. or having STD scares every month. I have people in my life who mean something...and I have the respect of many gay, lesbian, and transgender people.

Edit: What does ladydragonmom mean?

Thanks for your input, it actually means a lot coming from you because, don't take this the wrong way, but I perceive you as being the "alpha (fe)male" of this community, like in a good way, you seem to have the dominating presence around here and you say exactly what you think, which is great.

At the end of the day, deep in my heart, I do NOT think I'm transgendered, because I cannot honestly say that I truly believe I am a woman inside, trapped in a male's body. Do I really want to be a girl? No, only in a sexual way. Not socially, or whatever.

At the same time, I don't know how to handle having had these autogynophilia thoughts for over 20 years. How would I tell my girlfriend or wife, "Hey, when we're having sex, I'm actually fantasizing about being you! Oh yeah, I'd like to also wear your clothes and do your makeup"

Without going into TMI, my entire sexuality is this: I look at pictures of females and imagine myself as them, I look at pictures of females clothes and imagine myself wearing them, I sometimes wear women's clothes, repeat over and over for 20 years.

Most guys fantasize about having sex with Megan Fox. I get no sexual stimulation AT ALL trying to imagine myself having sex with Megan Fox. None.

So how do I deal with this autogynophilia in a constructive way? I'm starting to think drag queen would be perfect: I get to be a girl when it's sexually convenient, but I get to be a man for when that's convenient as well. But how does a guy raised in an uber conservative Christian home, who has never drank or been to a party in his life, suddenly get into that sort of thing?

Quote from: jdinatale on December 11, 2011, 08:54:43 PM
Edit: What does ladydragonmom mean?

Thanks for your input, it actually means a lot coming from you because, don't take this the wrong way, but I perceive you as being the "alpha (fe)male" of this community, like in a good way, you seem to have the dominating presence around here and you say exactly what you think, which is great.

At the end of the day, deep in my heart, I do NOT think I'm transgendered, because I cannot honestly say that I truly believe I am a woman inside, trapped in a male's body. Do I really want to be a girl? No, only in a sexual way. Not socially, or whatever.

At the same time, I don't know how to handle having had these autogynophilia thoughts for over 20 years. How would I tell my girlfriend or wife, "Hey, when we're having sex, I'm actually fantasizing about being you! Oh yeah, I'd like to also wear your clothes and do your makeup"

Without going into TMI, my entire sexuality is this: I look at pictures of females and imagine myself as them, I look at pictures of females clothes and imagine myself wearing them, I sometimes wear women's clothes, repeat over and over for 20 years.

Most guys fantasize about having sex with Megan Fox. I get no sexual stimulation AT ALL trying to imagine myself having sex with Megan Fox. None.

So how do I deal with this autogynophilia in a constructive way? I'm starting to think drag queen would be perfect: I get to be a girl when it's sexually convenient, but I get to be a man for when that's convenient as well. But how does a guy raised in an uber conservative Christian home, who has never drank or been to a party in his life, suddenly get into that sort of thing?

I pretty much felt the same as you when I was your age, it's just kept getting worse for me. The good news is girls are pretty ok with crossdressing usually, my girlfriend loves making me up and is constantly looking for clothes and is sometimes more excited about than me. It's gotten more emotional and less sexual for me over time, I'm still turned on by dressing and thinking about being a girl, I guess the difference now is before after I was *done* I felt super weird and even grossed out about the fact that thinking that way is what gave me my jollies, that "guilt" usually went away after like 20 minutes... That dosen't tend to happen anymore. Dressing and fantasizing just isn't enough for me anymore, so now I'm preparing to transition.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 11, 2011, 08:54:43 PM
Edit: What does ladydragonmom mean?

Thanks for your input, it actually means a lot coming from you because, don't take this the wrong way, but I perceive you as being the "alpha (fe)male" of this community, like in a good way, you seem to have the dominating presence around here and you say exactly what you think, which is great.

So how do I deal with this autogynophilia in a constructive way? I'm starting to think drag queen would be perfect: I get to be a girl when it's sexually convenient, but I get to be a man for when that's convenient as well. But how does a guy raised in an uber conservative Christian home, who has never drank or been to a party in his life, suddenly get into that sort of thing?

Alpha (fe)male...ah you've read my writings. I am loved and hated...respected by some, some want to put me in my place. In other words, what I expected happen.

Ladydragonmom is drag mother. Basically someone who has a muse to several people...the queen drag queen. Yes, I am an "MtF"and transgender. But without his guidence and honestly, I wouldn't have known my full potential. But getting at the same time, getting that meant I got sick of being a typical transgirl and wanted to be fabulous 24/7 and I disassociated myself from my "trans" thoughts which weren't even real to begin with. I can't even relate to the genital dsyphoria here...I took hormones knewing I'd be giving up my penial function. Those people who get srs are extremely brave. But I got the appearance and the life of a female, so no complaints there.

I think maybe you should start crossdressing in secret and get out of your parents house asap. Go to gay bars, learn from them...you might need to put on a "gay" act though. Look at youtube tutorials, add me on fb, etc.. I mean you need to decide how you feel about this. Take your time and see...

There are plenty of straight men who crossdress, some who do drag, etc... Just as I've chosen to break from the traditional view of an MtF. You could easily do the same as a CD/DQ and learn enough to alter your appearance to one day become an MtF if you like.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 11, 2011, 08:54:43 PM
So how do I deal with this autogynophilia in a constructive way?

You got so many posting abou AG, yet you seem to like it and stick to it.  The good news is that you have found Mahsa, she can be your mentor. Perahps you should consider movng to SF.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 13, 2011, 05:41:20 PM
You got so many posting abou AG, yet you seem to like it and stick to it.  The good news is that you have found Mahsa, she can be your mentor. Perahps you should consider movng to SF.

I self-identify with ->-bleeped-<-. I'm not saying it applies to all TS, but it applies to me. It's looking more and more likely that not only do I have ->-bleeped-<-, but I am an ->-bleeped-<- TS. My gender identity therapist appointment is tomorrow and my endocrinologist appointment is January 3rd, and at this point, I am going to transition.

I would love for Mahsa to be my mentor, like I said, she seems to be the alpha (fe)male of this community.

Are you seriously suggesting that just packing up and moving from Georgia to SF is a viable option? The only chance you would ever see me in California is if I got into Berkeley or Stanford for graduate school.

You are twenty you said, so you are two years into college. What is your GPA ? What are you majoring in ? What graduate program you are thinking geeting on ?

Quote from: Jen61 on December 13, 2011, 07:51:22 PM
You are twenty you said, so you are two years into college. What is your GPA ? What are you majoring in ? What graduate program you are thinking geeting on ?

I skipped a year of college (graduating in 3 years instead of 4), so I'm actually in my 3rd year of college.

GPA: 3.94
Major: Mathematics (Pure, not applied)
Graduate program: Financial math / quantitative finance / financial engineering (all same thing, just different schools)

Quote from: Jen61 on December 13, 2011, 05:41:20 PM
You got so many posting abou AG, yet you seem to like it and stick to it.  The good news is that you have found Mahsa, she can be your mentor. Perahps you should consider movng to SF.

Nope. Sorry.

so i went to the supposedly gender identity specialist, and it turns out that she didn't specialize in transgender patients and she didn't know what ->-bleeped-<- was. She said I would have to go to Atlanta to find a specialist.

Is there any point in going to a therapist? because honestly I don't see what she could tell me that you guys haven't already said.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 14, 2011, 04:30:02 PM

Is there any point in going to a therapist? because honestly I don't see what she could tell me that you guys haven't already said.

I suppose it's to deal with the reality of society. Keep in mind, a lot of transpeople didn't come from being a feminine gay boy... But more people in your position and it's not easy on the body or soul. My boyfriend has to often tell me, "stop acting like a fruit" out in public. Society expects more from females than men.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 13, 2011, 06:57:51 PM
I self-identify with ->-bleeped-<-. I'm not saying it applies to all TS, but it applies to me. It's looking more and more likely that not only do I have ->-bleeped-<-, but I am an ->-bleeped-<- TS. My gender identity therapist appointment is tomorrow and my endocrinologist appointment is January 3rd, and at this point, I am going to transition.

All (well most) women are ->-bleeped-<-, TS or cis. There's nothing wrong with a girl wanting to be sexual as a woman, I certainly don't want to be sexual as a man, though I don't speak for all girls.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 14, 2011, 04:41:44 PM
a lot of transpeople didn't come from being a feminine gay boy...

Some were feminine straight boys, funny how I have a preference for men (uh, feminine looking guys, though still love me boyish looking girls, woo androgyny) now though. : D

Quote from: jdinatale on December 14, 2011, 04:30:02 PM
Is there any point in going to a therapist? because honestly I don't see what she could tell me that you guys haven't already said.

Will your Dr prescribe HRT with therapist letters?  Do you want surgery of any type eventually (which require letters)?  If you need letters then you need therapy.

Do you have anyone local you trust?  I am using a non-specialized therapist, but she has been great to work with and is very willing to read up on the WPATH protocols.

Quote from: Jeneva on December 14, 2011, 06:18:35 PM
Will your Dr prescribe HRT with therapist letters?  Do you want surgery of any type eventually (which require letters)?  If you need letters then you need therapy.

Do you have anyone local you trust?  I am using a non-specialized therapist, but she has been great to work with and is very willing to read up on the WPATH protocols.

Hormones can be easily gotten from clinics in every major metropolitan area. You can get your blood levels checked every 6 months like I do.

I've been doing this on my own the past 3 years and I don't think therapy is always necessary. People don't need a medical supervisor to be themselves. However, if they feel the need to, then yes. But there are other alternatives.

Man, I feel like I am about to explode waiting for my doctor's appointment! Like I can't even enjoy my winter break because I'm anxiously thinking about it all day. Most people celebrate Christmas on December 25th, I'll be celebrating it on January 3rd!

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 14, 2011, 06:57:20 PM
Hormones can be easily gotten from clinics in every major metropolitan area. You can get your blood levels checked every 6 months like I do.

I've been doing this on my own the past 3 years and I don't think therapy is always necessary. People don't need a medical supervisor to be themselves. However, if they feel the need to, then yes. But there are other alternatives.

Can you post more about this process of obtaining hormones (through clinics)? Although I have an endocrinologist appointment, it's a very real possibility that he could just tell me no. My therapist today said that some endocrinologists won't do HRT because they aren't knowledgeable in it.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 14, 2011, 06:57:20 PM
Hormones can be easily gotten from clinics in every major metropolitan area. You can get your blood levels checked every 6 months like I do.

I've been doing this on my own the past 3 years and I don't think therapy is always necessary. People don't need a medical supervisor to be themselves. However, if they feel the need to, then yes. But there are other alternatives.

That is great that you have local informed consent clinics.  Not all of us live in places that do. 

As you said there are always places to go to get hormones if you do it on your own like you did and like I did even.  However the OFFICIAL policy of this board is no DIY talk.

But surgery DOES need letters.  The only exceptions I know of now, is the Dr in ATL that will do orchi as informed consent.  I'm sure that some foreign Drs can be bought, but it is expensive enough already.

A good therapist can be helpful in more than just getting your letters too. There are many things you have to deal with during transition and if you don't have a good support system in your life, they can guide you through some rough times so you can hopefully come out of it without being a bitter, angry person from having to deal with the numerous asses that will pop up from time to time or quite regularly, depending.

Quote from: Jaime on December 14, 2011, 08:04:14 PM
A good therapist can be helpful in more than just getting your letters too. There are many things you have to deal with during transition and if you don't have a good support system in your life, they can guide you through some rough times so you can hopefully come out of it without being a bitter, angry person from having to deal with the numerous asses that will pop up from time to time or quite regularly, depending.

That is also a great point.  I had serious issues with my family even before I came out.  I had finally reached a point where I wanted to be my own person and every time I went against what they wanted it was a huge fight.  Just decided to make my part of the family land organic was months of cold shoulders and put downs.  I don't think I'd still be around without someone to help me put how they act in perspective and to understand that it is ok to be myself even if they don't like it.

Quote from: Jaime on December 14, 2011, 08:04:14 PM
A good therapist can be helpful in more than just getting your letters too. There are many things you have to deal with during transition and if you don't have a good support system in your life, they can guide you through some rough times so you can hopefully come out of it without being a bitter, angry person from having to deal with the numerous asses that will pop up from time to time or quite regularly, depending.

I've been through hell and back. Nothing in my transition I can't handle.

A proper gender therapist should be able to refer clients to more than just an endo or doctor for HRT. There is more to transition than just hormones and surgery. Voice, deportment, fashion and socialization are all important facets.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 14, 2011, 04:30:02 PM
Is there any point in going to a therapist? because honestly I don't see what she could tell me that you guys haven't already said.

Don't listen to people on a forum, go to a professional. Go to an experienced therapist. Seriously!

You still believe that there is something like ->-bleeped-<-, even though many people on this thread already explained to you that ->-bleeped-<- is a nonsense theory. The only thing that comes close to ->-bleeped-<- is transvestic fetishism. I am not saying that that's what you are having, but it could be, and transitioning for a fetish is a very bad idea. Are you even aware of the fact that hormones may reduce your sexdrive?

If it's not transvestic fetishism, but actual transsexualism, then you first should understand that being transsexual is more than just having a female body. It means actual living like a female, 24/7, with everything that comes with that. It means losing male privilege, getting a job as a girl, etc, etc, etc.

On the 12th you posted that you were considering to become a drag queen, and now it's full transition again. My impression is that you haven't got a clue what you are getting yourself into and why you are doing it. Seriously, go to a professional therapist first before you do anything stupid which you may regret later.

Quote from: Joandelynn on December 15, 2011, 02:46:03 AM
Don't listen to people on a forum, go to a professional. Go to an experienced therapist. Seriously!

You still believe that there is something like ->-bleeped-<-, even though many people on this thread already explained to you that ->-bleeped-<- is a nonsense theory. The only thing that comes close to ->-bleeped-<- is transvestic fetishism. I am not saying that that's what you are having, but it could be, and transitioning for a fetish is a very bad idea. Are you even aware of the fact that hormones may reduce your sexdrive?

If it's not transvestic fetishism, but actual transsexualism, then you first should understand that being transsexual is more than just having a female body. It means actual living like a female, 24/7, with everything that comes with that. It means losing male privilege, getting a job as a girl, etc, etc, etc.

On the 12th you posted that you were considering to become a drag queen, and now it's full transition again. My impression is that you haven't got a clue what you are getting yourself into and why you are doing it. Seriously, go to a professional therapist first before you do anything stupid which you may regret later.

Okayyy.

So, like, far be it from me to discourage you, specifically, jdinatale, from checkin' in to a therapist because you're not sure exactly what you want and that merits thinking about at a more intensive level than you might otherwise do on your own.  The kind of therapist you'd also want to go to might have answers to a lot of questions that you might have in your mind but don't know the answers to.

But whoa there, nelly.  Let's not define this person's condition/mental state for them.

Joandelynn, I don't like the theory of  ->-bleeped-<-.  It makes me uncomfortable, its description of prevalence and classification by Blanchard is reductionist and insulting and reduces homosexuality and bisexuality to the sexual fetishes of a deluded straight dude, and all in all I think its use and attempt to cast a net that includes every AMAB trans* person is really insulting (first, because it makes the assumption that all trans* people are the same, and second, because somehow trans* masculine individuals are just an inconvenient after that) and woefully inaccurate.

That said, what you're doing here is telling someone their identity is wrong.  "You're not ->-bleeped-<-.  We've already explained to you that ->-bleeped-<- doesn't exist."  Let's compare that with something that I may have heard from certain evangelical Christians.  Maybe this sounds similar?  "You're not gay.  I already told you that it's a choice and not a real sexual orientation." Or this? "You're not trans, or female, and you'll never be a real womyn."

(Aaaalso, your mileage may drastically vary on the whole sex drive deal.  I'm a fiend now.)

If jdinatale identifies as autogynephilic, that is, that they (I'm using they for lack of a marker for identified sex, but please tell me if you'd prefer another pronoun) feel sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as a woman (as categorically separate from "envisioning sex as a woman," you folks who resolutely claim that "everyone is ->-bleeped-<-, even cis women".  Cis women don't pop ladyboners at the thought of putting on a hoodie and jeans to go buy milk at the local 7-Eleven, and that's what the perceived separation between  ->-bleeped-<- and normal sexual arousal from sexual thoughts which are, sex-positivity mode go!, perfectly normal and nothing to be afraid of!), then so it is.  Jdinatale, if you identify as autogynephilic, god bless you.

I don't actually personally believe that "true transsexuals" are the only people entitled to transition.  Sure, the whole concept is probably catered to them, but let's not be so trans*phobic (only now, we're talking about the umbrella) to believe that people shouldn't be allowed to do whatever the sam hell they want with their bodies.  As long as everyone who's going to use them knows what's going to happen, I support hormones being available with the ease of candy.  (For what it's worth, I can't really speak to the concept of losing male privilege.  I'm aware that I had it when I passed as male, but I think it's more keenly felt by those who transition when they're older.  I'm 19, so that complex never really held relevance to me.)

I occasionally have doubts that I'm a bona fide, genuine transsexual person.  But I'm definitely trans*, and I'm comforted by the thought that it doesn't actually matter whether I'm a "real transsexual", because I'm happy with how I am, and that's what's important.  So basically, jdinatale, identify however the hell you want if the identify has the right mouth-feel for you, and don't let other people try to bring you down about it if it makes you feel all warm 'n fuzzy inside.

(An addendum: I agree with Mahsa on the point that I think occasionally, therapy is totally irrelevant.  I'm currently slogging through a round of "working relationship construction" with a therapist who's going to be writing my second surgery letter, and it's painfully clear that I don't need this dude's therapy because I'm fine.  And there really isn't much more to transition as a form of actually changing your sex than hormones and surgery.  One need not have a woman's fashion, behavior, or socialization to be female, and one also, I'd argue, doesn't need that if one doesn't want it.)

Quote from: Wonderdyke on December 15, 2011, 03:23:57 AM
That said, what you're doing here is telling someone their identity is wrong. 

I am just trying to warn someone here. I have read a lot of regretter stories, and one very often reoccurring theme is people transitioning for erotic reasons. Another often reoccurring theme is that these regretters were heavily influenced by the transgender community, which is exactly what seems to be going on in this thread.

I don't believe that transition is for anyone. If you are not born transsexual, then identifying as one will not make you one. And if you transition while you are not transsexual, then you will ironically become one and end up in their shoes. That is why I brought up the job example, this is not just about changing the body, it is about changing your entire life experience.

I still believe that Jdinitale should go to an experienced gender therapist. I don't believe everyone needs a therapist, but I see way too many red flags in this thread to skip that step. If you want to transition, then go ahead, but do it properly prepared. This is not a game.

Firstly, I just got to say that Wonderdyke wrote an absolutely excellent post.


Secondly;

Quote from: Joandelynn on December 15, 2011, 04:55:54 AM
I am just trying to warn someone here. I have read a lot of regretter stories, and one very often reoccurring theme is people transitioning for erotic reasons. Another often reoccurring theme is that these regretters were heavily influenced by the transgender community, which is exactly what seems to be going on in this thread.

I don't believe that transition is for anyone. If you are not born transsexual, then identifying as one will not make you one. And if you transition while you are not transsexual, then you will ironically become one and end up in their shoes. That is why I brought up the job example, this is not just about changing the body, it is about changing your entire life experience.

I still believe that Jdinitale should go to an experienced gender therapist. I don't believe everyone needs a therapist, but I see way too many red flags in this thread to skip that step. If you want to transition, then go ahead, but do it properly prepared. This is not a game.

I agree and disagree with various parts in your post. I agree with the "cheering on" in the Transgendered community you describes. In my opinion, someone basically just has to put on a wig and set foot in the Community and ask "Do I look like a girl now?" and everyone will say "Oh yes you are totally passable and meant to be a girl- GO for it!"
I understand that the people cheering on means well. Sort of. But that well meaning can in the end turn out very unfortunate if the person that gets cheered on is not someone that would benefit from transition at all but goes ahead and does it anyway.

And as for non-transsexual people transitioning and ending up as transsexuals and being hit by the reality of Life, well, those points are true aswell. However, there are non-transsexual people transitioning all the time, and while some of them very correctly end up being regretters, others of them comes out truly happy, although they may in actuality be nothing else than really feminine "gay" males/Or butches) or even intense crossdressers.
Yet others, that have done it for fetishistic reasons, almost "wants" that regret, and when it sets in, they get the biggest turn-on from being trapped in a female body and lives constantly in a sort of sexual climax thereafter. Odd, but everyone is different, even transitioners.

Then, ofcourse, there are also those that do not really want to transition per se, but nonetheless alter parts of their bodies, such as breasts, face or even full SRS, but remains in their traditional gender role because they simply have no urge for anything else than the bodily alterations they have done.

Anyway, there are a lot of reasons why non-transsexual people would drastically change their bodies for life and yet become truly happy, and just as many reasons why some people shopuldn't, as they would turn out miserable.

Omigod, I'm totally stealing that style idea. Your hair is fab!

I'll echo what everybody else has said in this thread. ->-bleeped-<- is a quack's way of explaining transsexuality. It's championed by Blanchard and Zucker, two people who just so happen to also believe in reparative therapy for transsexuals. The correlation is no coincidence. Find a local trans support group/LGBT center and use their network to find a competent therapist. It's worth the effort, believe you me.

As for "too late" at age twenty... come off it! At twenty you're still in the throes of puberty - when you take T out of the driver's seat your body will mold into something completely, totally new and different, in ways you can't even possibly imagine when you're standing at the precipice of transition. Estrogen is a powerful, powerful tool for shaping bodies, and by the end you'll look like your closest female relatives.

Take it from someone who used to be a wrestler, super-masculine, the whole nine; started transition at 23; and now is told on a daily basis that she's attractive, cute, sexy, whatever. As long as you put in the effort you will be passable and you will be pretty. (However, don't think this is just a "take pill, be girl" sort of thing - you will have to work and work _hard_ to be passable. But considering the discipline inherent in maintaining such a sculpted body in that photo I think you'll do swimmingly.)

Quote from: BrokenCode on December 03, 2011, 04:31:25 PM
Thanks, Here is a more recent without glasses. I still need a haircut. I'm thinking once I get a girl hair cut, things will look much better. lol.(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1105.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh358%2FBrokenCodeXXX%2FNov_2011%2FIMAG0177.jpg&hash=f03bb64b56a301f66ccf772c45c6fb719652f738)
There is another thread on here with many girl's before and after. I think its even called before and after. The last post wasn't that long, so it should be within the first 4 pages or so.

And regarding on how I perceive myself. Well I'm still trying to see her ( I do from time to time). The hardest part is to see the girl in the mirror, just because you have seen the guy for 20 years or so. That is one of the hardest parts. Everyone else will see a girl before you do.

Quote from: Joandelynn on December 15, 2011, 04:55:54 AM
I am just trying to warn someone here. I have read a lot of regretter stories, and one very often reoccurring theme is people transitioning for erotic reasons. Another often reoccurring theme is that these regretters were heavily influenced by the transgender community, which is exactly what seems to be going on in this thread.

I still believe that Jdinitale should go to an experienced gender therapist. I don't believe everyone needs a therapist, but I see way too many red flags in this thread to skip that step. If you want to transition, then go ahead, but do it properly prepared. This is not a game.

Very truthful  ! Jdinatale seems to be very confused and misled. IMHO, in-depth therapy should be persued before any HTR.

Quote from: Bishounen on December 15, 2011, 10:09:02 AM
Secondly;
I agree and disagree with various parts in your post. I agree with the "cheering on" in the Transgendered community you describes. In my opinion, someone basically just has to put on a wig and set foot in the Community and ask "Do I look like a girl now?" and everyone will say "Oh yes you are totally passable and meant to be a girl- GO for it!"
I understand that the people cheering on means well. Sort of. But that well meaning can in the end turn out very unfortunate if the person that gets cheered on is not someone that would benefit from transition at all but goes ahead and does it anyway.

I certainly have a better life in my transition. But I sometimes why I didn't just stay a gay man. Of course, the first two year of my transition...I completely ignored the trans community and got advice from my drag queen, gay makeup friends, etc. Gay men don't pussyfoot around and they will tell you straight up what is wrong. I think much of the cheering here is unrealistic at best. As a former gay male, I know how what makes a girl attractive and although I prefer men a million times more I am not blind. I also don't find tgirls at large to be that attractive. I find most of them looking like half assed DQs without the work and effort. If I find one a attractive here...I tell them. But chances are I'd be attracted to them as a male and I do like feminine men.

Well one thing you've got to understand is that many transgender people see each other through "rose colored glasses". Some of them can't tell the difference between male and female faces, etc. I think people want to be supportive instead of truthful. The best criticism comes when people are both.

Thats why I am here. I mean yeah, I look like I should be on RuPaul's Drag Race and I am a transgender performer. But I "pass"... I wouldn't have done this if I didn't have the raw materials as a boy. Some people might debate that I don't, since whatever xyz and that taught me that no transition is fool proof. But to most people, I am overall perceived as a cisfemale...But at 5'5", 140 and petite as all hell. I got lucky. But honestly, I've seen SF drag queens who make better women than a lot of the girls in the "Do I pass?" thread. But gay men for whatever reason have prettier faces and have already done the basic work(plucked eyebrows, good skin, etc) before they transition. They also know how to socialize and have bull->-bleeped-<- detectors.

Truth is, a lot of men are born with features that won't be flattering as a female. The refusal to even wear basic foundation or "blend" in with females is more damaging overall. I hate that much of that is enforced on the board... But I also realize there's nothing I can do about it. Most people aren't from San Francisco and they don't have the option of being an extremely femme male before they transition.

I'd almost prefer you get into drag. You could really get your body in order, learn a lot about all kinds of cosmetics, learn how to enhance your image before you actually transition instead of half ass "x-dressing". Then go from there.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 07, 2011, 07:01:34 PMmy family is devoutly religious. I know everyone usually says that, but my family is even more so. I come from a Mormon household and if you don't know anything about Mormons, they are the most hardcore conservative Christians out there.  Even a guy getting an ear piercing is grounds for ostracism.

My parents don't know what my problem is, but they know I have a severe one and they worry themselves to death over it. They repeatedly claim that I can pray the problem away, and that with enough faith "God can heal anything." It wouldn't matter if my psychologist and I told them how I tried everything possible to live as a heterosexual male, they would still claim God could fix it. How in the world do you explain something like this to your parents who believe God can fix anything?

Hi Jdinatale.  I'm an active (cis)Mormon and I've figured out how to reconcile transsexuality with my religion.  If you'd like, I can PM you some stuff that might help your parents and family come to terms with transsexuality.  Just let me know.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 15, 2011, 03:28:45 PM
Truth is, a lot of men are born with features that won't be flattering as a female. The refusal to even wear basic foundation or "blend" in with females is more damaging overall. I hate that much of that is enforced on the board... But I also realize there's nothing I can do about it. Most people aren't from San Francisco and they don't have the option of being an extremely femme male before they transition.

Why do you feel that this board pushes against even basic foundation?  Perhaps there aren't a lot of threads in the makeup section, but that doesn't mean it is frowned upon.

Unless something is really odd (or urgent time crunch) if I leave the house I have on foundation and probably a medium pink lipstick.  However until recently my wife rarely wore even foundation and only ultra rarely lipstick (lots of chapstick though).  Most of the women I have worked with (in the professional sector) don't wear much more than foundation and sometimes lipstick either.

As a makeup consultant it may be perfectly acceptable for you to have fully done your eyes and brows, but is that realistic for an average professional worker?  Certainly not around here.

One of our cousins wears full make-up but she is a total air head deadbeat and usually looks like a clown [when you see her actually moving around].

The only other person I know is another local transwoman hair styles that also does moonlight drag shows.  Of all the people in the salon she works at she sticks out BECAUSE of the makeup, not blending in better because of it.  She is certainly a really nice person, and if she feels more comfortable that way then good for her.

Jdinatale,

Do a Google image search of: "typical DQ," then do the same but with "typical transsexual woman."

Notice the difference?


A true DQ is a MAN  who makes a living impersonating a woman. If a DQ gets HRT and SRS, then this person is a WOMAN pretending to be a MAN impersonating a WOMAN. That in my book is a fraud.

Now, Honey, 

You said you want to the a financial engineer, and certainly with a 3.95 GPA you stand a good chance to enter a graduate program and get a Ph.D in finaces. However, I see it very difficult persuing your career or education while looking like a DQ. DQ belong to  the stage or the "red districts" not in corporate America or Academia.

At the end it is your decision and your life!

I am just expressing my humble opinion; I do have a senior postion on a 75,000 people company, and I am transitioning in the job.

I believe in ->-bleeped-<-. But I believe gg's have it too. It's obvious when they are dolled up in town they are enjoying themselves as much as we enjoy ourselves.

Your face could easily be a girl face. I say go for it. You might want to freeze your sperm first

Quote from: Jen61 on December 15, 2011, 04:36:32 PM
Here is a DQ picture I randomly pull out of Goggle Images
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fimgres%3Fq%3Dtypical%2Bdrag%2Bqueen%26amp%3Bhl%3Den%26amp%3Bbiw%3D968%26amp%3Bbih%3D534%26amp%3Bgbv%3D2%26amp%3Btbm%3Disch%26amp%3Btbnid%3DuwQYWrZfIkc2RM%3A%26amp%3Bimgrefurl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.freewebs.com%2Fvioletbrator%2F%26amp%3Bdocid%3DGtDoijEh7iEsWM%26amp%3Bimgurl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.freewebs.com%2Fvioletbrator%2FViolet%25252520New%25252520Face.jpg%26amp%3Bw%3D604%26amp%3Bh%3D453%26amp%3Bei%3Dh3HqTqueLMP30gGGiOHYCQ%26amp%3Bzoom%3D1%26amp%3Biact%3Drc%26amp%3Bdur%3D7%26amp%3Bsig%3D111612342597922110230%26amp%3Bpage%3D1%26amp%3Btbnh%3D143%26amp%3Btbnw%3D193%26amp%3Bstart%3D0%26amp%3Bndsp%3D12%26amp%3Bved%3D1t%3A429%2Cr%3A6%2Cs%3A0%26amp%3Btx%3D130%26amp%3Bty%3D76&hash=24f1f797c823aadff562b03954ed94c2aac19842)

and here is a picture of a typical  "transsexual woman"

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fimgres%3Fq%3Dtranssexual%2Bwoman%26amp%3Bhl%3Den%26amp%3Bgbv%3D2%26amp%3Bbiw%3D968%26amp%3Bbih%3D534%26amp%3Btbm%3Disch%26amp%3Btbnid%3D43u7BhP4xwqNjM%3A%26amp%3Bimgrefurl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fbeingamyk.blogspot.com%2F2010_03_01_archive.html%26amp%3Bdocid%3Dr2fp_1CH-n7tYM%26amp%3Bimgurl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F_D5eDK7rT3Ms%2FS7BFbqbwzYI%2FAAAAAAAABOE%2FaeomSM0DNLo%2Fs1600%2FmainDonnaLewis1.jpg%26amp%3Bw%3D500%26amp%3Bh%3D500%26amp%3Bei%3DiXPqToTYFsLz0gGzj_WpCQ%26amp%3Bzoom%3D1%26amp%3Biact%3Dhc%26amp%3Bvpx%3D418%26amp%3Bvpy%3D196%26amp%3Bdur%3D8424%26amp%3Bhovh%3D225%26amp%3Bhovw%3D225%26amp%3Btx%3D151%26amp%3Bty%3D187%26amp%3Bsig%3D111612342597922110230%26amp%3Bpage%3D2%26amp%3Btbnh%3D132%26amp%3Btbnw%3D132%26amp%3Bstart%3D10%26amp%3Bndsp%3D11%26amp%3Bved%3D1t%3A429%2Cr%3A8%2Cs%3A10&hash=c712217e4f679ee47011b691410ab1aef9f87871)




I do not know who this ladies are, and I am showing them jsut to make the point that the DG is a MAN  who makes a liging inpersonating a woman. If a DQ gets HRT and SRS, then this person is a WOMAN pretending to be a MAN impersonating a WOMAN. That in my book is a fraud.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftransgenderlegal.org%2Fimages%2Femail%2Fannouncement_58.jpg&hash=112712659ab8fc716f6e6239b80a571332499af0)
Transsexual woman

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F29.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lk70b9SAnE1qzh503o1_500.jpg&hash=27061fe99571ea061851f238877db92230e7ed6f)
Drag queen

The DQ looks a billion times better, btw.

I'm a fraud...I admit it.

Images don't work, btw.

Really? Both are technically born "men" dressed as women regardless of surgical status. I see ts women as women and drags are men's feminine side. It's just really a change of perspective. Sure, the TS might have gotten the fat distribution but the bone structure(which is a huge gender indicator) is still the same. Many men who do drag have good jobs in the fashion, hair, and finance industry. Yes, they are gay... But the gays have succeded in the past 20 yrs. Sorry TG performers don't meet your standards of what a "woman" is hun.

SRS just gives the appearance of a vagina btw as it's using the penis as the starting point. Just as drag makes the gay man feel whole in himself, so does srs...Have some respect.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 15, 2011, 04:36:32 PM
DQ belong to  the stage or the "red districts" not in corporate America or Academia.

I am just expressing my humble opinion; I do have a senior postion on a 75,000 people company, and I am transitioning in the job.

So gay men don't belong in corporate America? Most of the gay men I know do drag and hold corporate positions, as well as jobs in fashion, marketing, training, etc

Good for you. But did you crossdress before transition? You're no different than the gay man who works in your corporation who does drag on the weekends. Only difference is really perspective. I can't forget you have six kids and you once presented as their "dad".

hey, Jdinatale,

Do you see any "giants" of the finace world in the list of  "famous DQ"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drag_queens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drag_queens)

All I see is mostly famous male performers

Quote from: Jen61 on December 15, 2011, 05:02:01 PM
hey, Jdinatale,

Do you see any "giants" of the finace world in the list of  "famous DQ"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drag_queens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drag_queens)

All I see is mostly famous male performers

So what? You're better than everyone. I know this for a fact. LOL. I know you're "trannier than thou" than everyone on this board.

Stop overcompensating for the fact that you have six children and were a successful "male" for 50 yrs of your life. A gay man's femininity is no different than you transitioning to the outsider anyways. J

Well I don't think I'm going to transition anymore.

With every decision in life, there are costs and benefits.

My family is the most important thing in the world to me, and we are much much closer than the average family. For example, I hug and kiss my mom and sisters every day and tell them I love them. Last night, my mom was in the bed mentally sick from the thought of me transitioning. We almost had to call a doctor. She said only hope she has is that I keep on fighting this problem or else she couldn't go on. Without using hyperbole, if I were to transition, my mom would end up in a mental institution or dead.

It would be very selfish to transition and destroy my family.

I think my ->-bleeped-<- is only sexual. I don't feel like a girl trapped in a guy's body. I don't want to be a girl socially or for any other reason besides sexual ones. I need to find some sort of balance in my life where I can be fulfilled and satisfied sexually, but still have the benefits of being a man. Like it feels so good to wear girl's clothes, makeup, and fantasize about being a girl.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 15, 2011, 04:55:53 PM
I can't forget you have six kids and you once presented as their "dad".

Neither I, I am and always will be their DAD. My kids are the best thing ever happen to me. I am deeply honor G-d trust me with the lives of six kids.

I would not change my kids for anything, even for a gold-lined vagina.

But is this the best you can do to debate me, bring my kids into the arena ?

I expected better from an alpha (fe)male

BTW we are talking about gender not sexuality. This is not about gays !

Quote from: Jen61 on December 15, 2011, 05:12:13 PM
Neither I, I am and always will be their DAD. My kids are the best thing ever happen to me. I am deeply honor G-d trust me with the lives of six kids.

I would not change my kids for anything, even for a gold-lined vagina.

But is this the best you can do to debate me, bring my kids into the arena ?

I expected better from an alpha (fe)male

BTW we are talking about gender not sexuality. This is not about gays !

Glad you admit that. Cuz it's true. Before you start attacking TG women who performer and do 'drag"...you need to realize that they could easily say the same about you. Who for all I know, presented successfully as a normal heterosexual male at one time.

because before you throw rocks you need to make sure that you're glass house isn't showing or some crap.

Everyone has different paths to feminininity. I don't care what Jtinidalte does really...Just offering him alternatives to transition. Furthermore, people have different lifestyle choices doesn't make any choice right or wrong.

I have a huge crush on a Genetic girl now and have been thinking about her non stop... Oh my god...I betrayed my gay maleness or whatever. Identity is fluid and people change over time.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 15, 2011, 04:36:32 PM
Jdinatale,

Do a Google image search of: "typical DQ," then do the same but with "typical transsexual woman."

Notice the difference?

I did that search, and only got images of banana splits. Not a drag diva in sight.  :laugh:

Quote from: jdinatale on December 15, 2011, 05:11:09 PM
Well I don't think I'm going to transition anymore.

With every decision in life, there are costs and benefits.

My family is the most important thing in the world to me, and we are much much closer than the average family. For example, I hug and kiss my mom and sisters every day and tell them I love them. Last night, my mom was in the bed mentally sick from the thought of me transitioning. We almost had to call a doctor. She said only hope she has is that I keep on fighting this problem or else she couldn't go on. Without using hyperbole, if I were to transition, my mom would end up in a mental institution or dead.

It would be very selfish to transition and destroy my family.

I think my ->-bleeped-<- is only sexual. I don't feel like a girl trapped in a guy's body. I don't want to be a girl socially or for any other reason besides sexual ones. I need to find some sort of balance in my life where I can be fulfilled and satisfied sexually, but still have the benefits of being a man. Like it feels so good to wear girl's clothes, makeup, and fantasize about being a girl.

This seems contrary to what you told me over FB. If I had to make a guess, it sounds like you get to a point where you want to do something about this, then purge the idea because of guilt. You can make a million reasons why not to do this. Anyone can about anything. That therapist I told you about, I would highly suggest you seek him out. It does not matter if you transition, but you need to make up your mind with the right information and tools. Seek those out. Your family, especially your mom, should do the same. Your mom is only afraid of something bad happening to you. She is handling it very poorly, but no one is perfect.

And to everyone else, can we PLEASE get off what makes a trans woman a trans woman. I'll tell you who decides that, the person in question. It doesn't matter how we got to this point, only that we did, and we are better of than we were. PERIOD.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 15, 2011, 05:11:09 PM
My family is the most important thing in the world to me, and we are much much closer than the average family. For example, I hug and kiss my mom and sisters every day and tell them I love them. Last night, my mom was in the bed mentally sick from the thought of me transitioning. We almost had to call a doctor. She said only hope she has is that I keep on fighting this problem or else she couldn't go on. Without using hyperbole, if I were to transition, my mom would end up in a mental institution or dead.

It would be very selfish to transition and destroy my family.

If you don't feel you need to transition then don't.

But please at least speak to a general therapist.  Letting others have that kind of power over you can be very damaging to you long term.  Her statement is a HUGE red flag and totally out of place in a true loving relationship.  It took me a year and a half of therapy to feel OK with being my own self after over 30 years of doing what my (grand)parents told me to do.  I was constantly told I owed them everything and any deviation was a major failure on my part.  Surprisingly I am actually doing better on my own that I ever did with them plotting my course.  Emotional manipulation is a terrible weapon to use on loved ones.

Quote from: A_Dresden_Doll on December 15, 2011, 07:29:37 PM
This seems contrary to what you told me over FB. If I had to make a guess, it sounds like you get to a point where you want to do something about this, then purge the idea because of guilt. You can make a million reasons why not to do this. Anyone can about anything. That therapist I told you about, I would highly suggest you seek him out. It does not matter if you transition, but you need to make up your mind with the right information and tools. Seek those out. Your family, especially your mom, should do the same. Your mom is only afraid of something bad happening to you. She is handling it very poorly, but no one is perfect.

And to everyone else, can we PLEASE get off what makes a trans woman a trans woman. I'll tell you who decides that, the person in question. It doesn't matter how we got to this point, only that we did, and we are better of than we were. PERIOD.

Quote from: Jeneva on December 15, 2011, 07:31:21 PM
If you don't feel you need to transition then don't.

But please at least speak to a general therapist.  Letting others have that kind of power over you can be very damaging to you long term.  Her statement is a HUGE red flag and totally out of place in a true loving relationship.  It took me a year and a half of therapy to feel OK with being my own self after over 30 years of doing what my (grand)parents told me to do.  I was constantly told I owed them everything and any deviation was a major failure on my part.  Surprisingly I am actually doing better on my own that I ever did with them plotting my course.  Emotional manipulation is a terrible weapon to use on loved ones.

I want to transition soooo badly. But can't you not see that my mom will die or end up insane if I do it (no exaggeration)? What am I suppose to do?

Long story short? It won't be as bad as you think. Trust me.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 15, 2011, 07:48:04 PM
I want to transition soooo badly. But can't you not see that my mom will die or end up insane if I do it (no exaggeration)? What am I suppose to do?

Are you sure she isn't just using guilt and worry to try to control you?     Regardless, find a proper gender therapist and put some effort into working out just what you want/need to do, whatever that turns out to be.    And I'm sorry about your mom, but if you are of age, you really need to concern yourself with what's best for you and your future, any truly caring parent would want that for their child.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 15, 2011, 07:48:04 PM
I want to transition soooo badly. But can't you not see that my mom will die or end up insane if I do it (no exaggeration)? What am I suppose to do?

Ok, I am not trying to be insensitive here at all, but sometimes things are what they appear and I've seen this before.

So she has told you that if you transition she will die right?  If she is in such poor health then perhaps at the next appointment you can ask the Dr his opinion?

Why does she feel she will die?  I'm pretty sure that it won't be a lightning bolt tossed by an angry desert sky god.  Is it that she will die of shame?  Shame is something you can only bring upon yourself.  If she is ashamed of you exploring who you are then that is HER choice.

I can speak from personal experience here.  A puppet master will tell you ANYTHING to keep control of the strings.  Please, please, please talk to some type of therapist about her influence.  Love isn't about control.  I'm sorry but the retreating to their deathbed is a classic manipulation technique.  It may well have been legitimate, but the fact she would NOT let you call a doctor makes it more suspicious not less.  Clutching your chest and shouting "Oh, this is the biggest one I ever had. You hear that Elizabeth? I'm coming to join you honey" is very easy to do.  I've heard how I'm going to kill my (grand)father for 10+ years now and yet he is still around.


I will also agree with AubreyRenee is that it is never as bad as we think.  Compared to what I imagined I'd lose I've only lost minor pieces.  The main pieces I lost weren't so much mine as I was theirs and once that was over they had no use for me anymore.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 15, 2011, 07:48:04 PMBut can't you not see that my mom will die or end up insane if I do it (no exaggeration)?

I have a hard time believing that as well.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 15, 2011, 07:48:04 PMWhat am I suppose to do?

Feel free to pass along the explanation about how transsexuality fits in with the Mormon religion that I PM'ed you to your parents, or I can even give you my contact info and they can discuss it with me directly if you think that would be better.  I can also put you in touch with those trans Mormons I mentioned.

Quote from: Jeneva on December 15, 2011, 08:32:07 PM
"Oh, this is the biggest one I ever had. You hear that Elizabeth? I'm coming to join you honey"

Fred Sanford was the first thought in my mind when I read his earlier comment as well.

Quote from: Jeneva on December 15, 2011, 08:32:07 PM
A puppet master will tell you ANYTHING to keep control of the strings.  Please, please, please talk to some type of therapist about her influence.  Love isn't about control.  I'm sorry but the retreating to their deathbed is a classic manipulation technique. 

+1

Listen to Jeneva on this.
Get into a therapist. Even if you have no intention of pursueing a transition you need to get into a therapist and talk about your relationship with your controling mother.
This is not a genuine or healthy relationship.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 15, 2011, 05:11:09 PM
I think my ->-bleeped-<- is only sexual. I don't feel like a girl trapped in a guy's body. I don't want to be a girl socially or for any other reason besides sexual ones. I need to find some sort of balance in my life where I can be fulfilled and satisfied sexually, but still have the benefits of being a man. Like it feels so good to wear girl's clothes, makeup, and fantasize about being a girl.

If you think your predicament is strictly a sexual fetish....well, ok. If I were you (meaning if I had this same feeling), then I would assume I was a crossdresser who had a sexual fetish. Most people with fetishes don't tell their mothers about it so I think you'll be ok not telling her.

But then again, only you know you (even you know yourself more than your therapist does.....well, your therapist knows very little from the things he told you...but that's for another topic)

Quote from: Jaime on December 15, 2011, 08:26:37 PM
Are you sure she isn't just using guilt and worry to try to control you?     Regardless, find a proper gender therapist and put some effort into working out just what you want/need to do, whatever that turns out to be.    And I'm sorry about your mom, but if you are of age, you really need to concern yourself with what's best for you and your future, any truly caring parent would want that for their child.

Quote from: Jeneva on December 15, 2011, 08:32:07 PM
Ok, I am not trying to be insensitive here at all, but sometimes things are what they appear and I've seen this before.

So she has told you that if you transition she will die right?  If she is in such poor health then perhaps at the next appointment you can ask the Dr his opinion?

Why does she feel she will die?  I'm pretty sure that it won't be a lightning bolt tossed by an angry desert sky god.  Is it that she will die of shame?  Shame is something you can only bring upon yourself.  If she is ashamed of you exploring who you are then that is HER choice.

I can speak from personal experience here.  A puppet master will tell you ANYTHING to keep control of the strings.  Please, please, please talk to some type of therapist about her influence.  Love isn't about control.  I'm sorry but the retreating to their deathbed is a classic manipulation technique.  It may well have been legitimate, but the fact she would NOT let you call a doctor makes it more suspicious not less.  Clutching your chest and shouting "Oh, this is the biggest one I ever had. You hear that Elizabeth? I'm coming to join you honey" is very easy to do.  I've heard how I'm going to kill my (grand)father for 10+ years now and yet he is still around.


I will also agree with AubreyRenee is that it is never as bad as we think.  Compared to what I imagined I'd lose I've only lost minor pieces.  The main pieces I lost weren't so much mine as I was theirs and once that was over they had no use for me anymore.

Quote from: rosetyler on December 15, 2011, 08:59:40 PM
I have a hard time believing that as well.
Feel free to pass along the explanation about how transsexuality fits in with the Mormon religion that I PM'ed you to your parents, or I can even give you my contact info and they can discuss it with me directly if you think that would be better.  I can also put you in touch with those trans Mormons I mentioned.

My mom has had a very tough life. Everyone has a tough life, but her's has been especially burdensome. I've only heard a fraction of her experiences, and they have been particularly devastating. She is chemically depressed and has situation depression. She's loaded up on a precarious balance of anti-anxieties, anti-depressants, sleep medicines, and hormone medicine. We also have an extremely loving relationship. For example, I hug and kiss my mom all throughout the day and tell her I love her. For me to turn into a girl would be the breaking point for her. I have no doubt that she would either take her own life or end up in a mental institution.

My doctor put it best. He said, "Your parents ultimately want to see you happy. The problem is that their definition of happiness is you as a man with a wife and kids."

jdnitale's mother is one of those sick control freaks who get an attack of the vapours to prevent children being independent...used to see lots of them in old Hollywood movies and Laurel and Hardy flicks.

best stick to being a crossdresser using female goods as stimulants...right this minute there are millions of men and woman using all sorts of other goods as stimulants such as porn, Playboy centrefolds, tractor tyres, animals, reptiles, vegetables and minerals, live and dead bodies, live and dead fur, gold and silver artifacts, altars, pews, graves, Kbar knives, M4s, M1911s, washing machines, hospital beds, toilets, trains and telegraph poles - and it is a free world. 
Old Hollywood big shots just to slip across to Tijuana to the Blue Burro to get stimulated by guess what? And once back home in their bedrooms that burro would have a prominent place in their sex lives.

Actually I don't recall ever reading of anyone using a telegraph pole for sex or having to go to hospital to have splinters removed from genitalia.    :D

Quote from: Forum Admin on December 15, 2011, 07:22:49 PM
I did that search, and only got images of banana splits. Not a drag diva in sight.  :laugh:

Just a dairy queen. Yummy....carbs straight to my thighs.

Quote from: Forum Admin on December 15, 2011, 07:22:49 PM
I did that search, and only got images of banana splits. Not a drag diva in sight.  :laugh:

That is because they are all the same, BANANAS ! :laugh:

Quote from: Jen61 on December 16, 2011, 03:03:07 PM
That is because they are all the same, BANANAS ! :laugh:

Soon you'll be a mother with six kids, no wife, and no banana. I happen to support you on this.

I think the image of a drag queen Jen has in mind is something like this:

Ask Misty - Silicone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIxxznfLqGA#)

Quote from: Akashiya Moka on December 17, 2011, 03:05:38 AM
I think the image of a drag queen Jen has in mind is something like this:

Ask Misty - Silicone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIxxznfLqGA#)

Oh not this:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.topnews.in%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2FCandisCayne.jpg&hash=2b31fb947180ab4444a9e4532f491b784a8b7389)

Btw, Candis Cayne is a TG performer like me. THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF DRAG QUEENS!

I love Candis; she's awesome! ^^

Quote from: Akashiya Moka on December 17, 2011, 03:38:40 AM
I love Candis; she's awesome! ^^

She's my inspiration...

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 17, 2011, 03:11:20 AM
Btw, Candis Cayne is a TG performer like me. THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF DRAG QUEENS!

According to Google she transitioned. But in my dictionary, a drag queen is a crossdressing gay male.

Quote from: Joandelynn on December 17, 2011, 03:58:39 AM
According to Google she transitioned. But in my dictionary, a drag queen is a crossdressing gay male.

She didn't. She still has her part.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 17, 2011, 04:35:08 AM
She didn't. She still has her part.

"transitioned" has different meanings to different people. For example, to some non ops, they can say "I have transitioned" without the surgery.

Quote from: Annah on December 17, 2011, 07:02:12 PM
"transitioned" has different meanings to different people. For example, to some non ops, they can say "I have transitioned" without the surgery.

Well then I've transitioned.

Quote from: Annah on December 17, 2011, 07:02:12 PM
"transitioned" has different meanings to different people. For example, to some non ops, they can say "I have transitioned" without the surgery.

2 years plus on HRT, post orchi and BA I pretty much consider myself transitioned.

Then if "transitioning" means bcoming a woman, it follows that as bona fide female you cannot be a gay man, or DQ, or anything else but a heterosexual or homosexual woman :laugh:

Quote from: Jen61 on December 18, 2011, 01:36:40 PM
Then if "transitioning" means bcoming a woman, it follows that as bona fide female you cannot be a gay man, or DQ, or anything else but a heterosexual or homosexual woman :laugh:

not to change the subject but I wouldn't use a private person's pic as your avatar. That kinda goes with the offense of someone stealing my pic and using it without my permission.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 18, 2011, 01:36:40 PM
Then if "transitioning" means bcoming a woman, it follows that as bona fide female you cannot be a gay man, or DQ, or anything else but a heterosexual or homosexual woman :laugh:

I thought it was my life, my rules?

I can present one way and think another...Like polticians do.

I'm in a real catch-22 lose/lose situation. Like I'm in a real mess.

The problem is that there are two jdinatales. One jdinatale wants to make his parents proud, wants to be a successful businessman, tries to train mma and bodybuild, wants to be a virile heterosexual man with a girlfriend.

The other jdinatale wants to be a woman, wants to wear makeup and girl clothes, and do her hair.

If I stay a man, I will always have these thoughts in the back of my mind and I'll never escape them. I'll look wealthy and prosperous from the outside; I'll have a nice family and own my dream house and cars. I'll smile in the photos, but deep down I will always carry these feelings. I could never be sexually satisfied.

If I become a woman, I'll kill the first jdinatale: I'll lose my relationship with my mom and twin sister and I'll lose my dream of becoming a CEO (let's be reality: the chances of a woman, let alone a transwoman, becoming a CEO in the conservative business world are slim).

I'm not trying to be melodramatic, but for one jdinatale to live, the other one has to die. There is no middle ground, you are either a woman or a man. In one scenario I become satisfied externally, putting on a show for everyone to see. In the other scenario, I become marginalized, an outcast of society, but I fulfill my deepest, most powerful desire, which is to be a woman.

And I have to somehow figure all of this out by January 3rd because that's when I go to the endocrinologist.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 19, 2011, 05:29:58 PM
I'm in a real catch-22 lose/lose situation. Like I'm in a real mess.

The problem is that there are two jdinatales. One jdinatale wants to make his parents proud, wants to be a successful businessman, tries to train mma and bodybuild, wants to be a virile heterosexual man with a girlfriend.

The other jdinatale wants to be a woman, wants to wear makeup and girl clothes, and do her hair.

If I stay a man, I will always have these thoughts in the back of my mind and I'll never escape them. I'll look wealthy and prosperous from the outside; I'll have a nice family and own my dream house and cars. I'll smile in the photos, but deep down I will always carry these feelings. I could never be sexually satisfied.

If I become a woman, I'll kill the first jdinatale: I'll lose my relationship with my mom and twin sister and I'll lose my dream of becoming a CEO (let's be reality: the chances of a woman, let alone a transwoman, becoming a CEO in the conservative business world are slim).

I'm not trying to be melodramatic, but for one jdinatale to live, the other one has to die. There is no middle ground, you are either a woman or a man. In one scenario I become satisfied externally, putting on a show for everyone to see. In the other scenario, I become marginalized, an outcast of society, but I fulfill my deepest, most powerful desire, which is to be a woman.

And I have to somehow figure all of this out by January 3rd because that's when I go to the endocrinologist.

Success is always relative. What is outward success at the cost of yourself in the process? Become the Ubermensch, find your own path, and don't cater to others because of guilt.

You can also try HRT for a short while to see how it makes you feel. While there is a risk of becoming sterile, most effects are reversible, and I have known of people to try to transition, got on HRT, found out it wasn't for them, and then went on with their lives. At this point, besides a good gender therapist, open-ended options seem like a good idea for you.

Quote from: Akashiya Moka on December 17, 2011, 03:05:38 AM
I think the image of a drag queen Jen has in mind is something like this:

Ask Misty - Silicone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIxxznfLqGA#)

Trannies pumping trannies? Is that like babies have babies?

Also, I just want to go out on a limp and say that I think Misty is awesome. I would go out with him any night and enjoy a drink with her.

Quote from: Annah on December 19, 2011, 12:12:56 AM
not to change the subject but I wouldn't use a private person's pic as your avatar. That kinda goes with the offense of someone stealing my pic and using it without my permission.

1) How do you know it is not me ?

May be is just the angle, we all have an angle from which we look passable, in my case I have to minimize my thining hair !  Or did the prospect of some other ->-bleeped-<- looking better than you threathens you ? I do not not know which one is motivating you, unlike you, I am not omniscient

2) Or how do you that a relative gave me the picture ? You just have to assume the worst!

You once already demanded proof for me? Did you ever consider that the reason that I have to tell half truths or ommit things or hide my identity is because otherwise my life would be in danger! Do you need proof ? Coming from a future preacher is  kind of surprising, a total lack of faith or compassion.


I hope you sleep well tonight, thanks a lot preacher !

Quote from: Jen61 on December 19, 2011, 06:53:03 PM


May be is just the angle, we all have an angle from which we look passable, in my case I have to minimize my thining hair !  Or did the prospect of some other ->-bleeped-<- looking better than you threathens you ? I do not not know which one is motivating you, unlike you, I am not omniscient

2) Or how do you that a relative gave me the picture ? You just have to assume the worst!

You once already demanded proof for me? Did you ever consider that the reason that I have to tell half truths or ommit things or hide my identity is because otherwise my life would be in danger! Do you need proof ? Coming from a future preacher is  kind of surprising, a total lack of faith or compassion.


I hope you sleep well tonight, thanks a lot preacher !

You totally lack compassion and I wonder if you're just a troublemaker. If you are...job well done. Trollin is an art, until someone gets hurt...LMAO

Annah looks great... you've yet to materialize an actual pic of yourself. By putting together the jumble of thoughts in your posts. I can see that you're extremely insecure in yourself and can only resort to attacks on people on this board. I don't believe that pic is you, because if it was...you'd still have it up as your profile pic.

Your life in danger? Wow, just wow. Is it the CIA or Roswell aliens going after you? LOL This is the internet... Hell, Mahsa isn't even my real name. You can protect your privacy to a certain degree...But honestly, I doubt your coworkers are searching for what you do in your personal time.

I'm locking this topic for 24 hours to give people time to calm down a bit - and reminding you fine people to be civil with each other, thank you :police:.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 19, 2011, 06:53:03 PM
1) How do you know it is not me ?

May be is just the angle, we all have an angle from which we look passable, in my case I have to minimize my thining hair !  Or did the prospect of some other ->-bleeped-<- looking better than you threathens you ? I do not not know which one is motivating you, unlike you, I am not omniscient

I knew it wasn't you. My point was that you shouldn't use someone else's private pic as your avatar. A famous person is fine, but a girl who has no idea you are using it is kinda unethical. That was my entire point. If I done the same thing I would have expected someone else to say the same thing to me. People have used my pics before as themselves and it doesn't feel good when my identity has been taken.

That avatar did not have thinning hair. Nor was it at an angle to make you pass. It was an amateur pic of a girl smiling outside. I wasn't responding to critique the picture.

The only thing that was motivating me was the girl's privacy and her face being displayed on a forum that she probably doesn't know about.

Quote2) Or how do you that a relative gave me the picture ? You just have to assume the worst!

See my next explanation after this one.

QuoteYou once already demanded proof for me?

You emailed me. I didn't email you. Furthermore, in your first email, you told me that you have two master degrees, a Ph.D, and a M.D., without me even asking you. You said, quote: "I earned a MS in biochemistry, a MD (residence in cancer), a PhD in biotechnology, and more recently a MS engineering".

For someone earning such high level degrees, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt the avatar was not you. The avatar was a girl in her very early twenties. To get the degrees you stated to me in an email, you would have been at least thirty eight years old and that is considering you breeze through all degrees starting at the age of 18 with a Bachelor's and doing some of the graduate courses simultaneously and back to back (not including M.D. residence). Not even the television fictional character "Doogie Howser, M.D" could have pulled that off.

Secondly, I never demanded proof from you. I asked to see some of your publications because if this was true, the readings would have been extraordinary and I gave you the benefit of the doubt; which I will explain further in the next writings down:

QuoteDid you ever consider that the reason that I have to tell half truths or ommit things or hide my identity is because otherwise my life would be in danger! Do you need proof ? Coming from a future preacher is  kind of surprising, a total lack of faith or compassion.

Yes. You stated this as the reason why you wouldn't show me any of your publications. Someone would kill you if I were to read them and inadvertently gave out your identity to your Doctoral Peers. Which brings me to my other point why I know the avatar wasn't you:

You say your life would have been in danger if you sent me a copy of your publications and/or medical journals through gmail.com but you felt it was safe enough to display your own picture as your avatar on a very popular transgender website. Do you see the problem?

Just a side note: the final email I sent you where I stated that I doubt the amount of degrees you received was because of the sheer number of misspelling errors in both your posts here and your emails and your posting behavior on these forums where you went back and forth with Masha...someone with two doctorates; one in Medicine and the other in Biotechnology would never have acted like that. Also, your misspellings are misspellings that a spell checker in any web browser would have fixed simply by clicking on the red underline word. And you stated you misspell a lot of words because you are a foreigner....well...I know many "foreigners" who are getting their doctoral degrees in the US and have perfect English skills.

Would you like to know why?

Because Universities in the U.S. for both the undergraduate and graduate programs require you to take an "English as a Second Language" exam to show the school you have the ability to understand the professors in English and to write and take tests in English. At the graduate level and especially the post graduate level this English Exam is even more strict where they gauge your grammar as papers and thesis are crucial to the development of the degree you are pursuing.

You told me you had a team of proof readers. You don't get that luxury as a student taking the English entrance exams or the GRE (Graduate Records Examination).

And to give you idea about grammar...I had to do a paper rewrite this semester because I used "weak" verbs rather than "strong" verbs. So if my professor did not like the selection of verbs I used (he hates the words "is" "for" "of" etc) and made me rewrite the paper then I am positive you would not have passed any of those papers with your grammar issues at a graduate level....not to mention the post graduate level.

QuoteI hope you sleep well tonight, thanks a lot preacher !

I do not have guilt with this. Sorry. I wrote this out thoroughly to show you I am not trolling you but to give you a rational explanation why I came to the conclusion that I did. If I simply said "the avatar isn't you" and provided no explanation, then someone could say i was attacking you unfairly.

Quote from: AubreyRenee on December 15, 2011, 07:48:50 PM
Long story short? It won't be as bad as you think. Trust me.

It can be,i was 14 when my nan found out about how I felt(raised by my grandparants) she totally freaked out,called me a pervert etc,then she started drinking a lot,which meant she did not take her blood pressure meds,which meant she had a stroke...she died a few years later not even knowing who I was anymore. I've felt guilty my whole life, and lost the only person who ever did love me as a kid growing up.
Sometimes it can be bad.

Quote from: Siobhan on December 22, 2011, 01:40:38 AM
It can be,i was 14 when my nan found out about how I felt(raised by my grandparants) she totally freaked out,called me a pervert etc,then she started drinking a lot,which meant she did not take her blood pressure meds,which meant she had a stroke...she died a few years later not even knowing who I was anymore. I've felt guilty my whole life, and lost the only person who ever did love me as a kid growing up.
Sometimes it can be bad.

This.

My mom told me last night that the only hope she has is that I don't give up fighting this problem and that I don't give into it. She said she couldn't go on if I did and that her happiness was dependent on me not giving in. I have no doubts she would end up in a mental hospital or dead if she ever finds out. It's a really sucky situation.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 22, 2011, 04:17:11 PM
This.

My mom told me last night that the only hope she has is that I don't give up fighting this problem and that I don't give into it. She said she couldn't go on if I did and that her happiness was dependent on me not giving in. I have no doubts she would end up in a mental hospital or dead if she ever finds out. It's a really sucky situation.

Quote from: Siobhan on December 22, 2011, 01:40:38 AM
It can be,i was 14 when my nan found out about how I felt(raised by my grandparants) she totally freaked out,called me a pervert etc,then she started drinking a lot,which meant she did not take her blood pressure meds,which meant she had a stroke...she died a few years later not even knowing who I was anymore. I've felt guilty my whole life, and lost the only person who ever did love me as a kid growing up.
Sometimes it can be bad.

You do not make decisions for other people.  The consequences of those decisions rest upon the ones who make them.  Don't feel guilt for something someone else did.  The world is hard enough for even a "regular" person, don't make it any harder.

I spent 25+ years being a puppet to this kind of guilt and coercion.  I'm not even talking about MTF transition with that either.  I literally had NO life that wasn't pre approved and preplanned.  It was just a complete ceding of control that was demanded or I wasn't showing respect to my grandparents that took us in when my mother died.  For example 12 years ago while I was still denying my true self, just the fact we decided to use product X in our house being built instead of product Y was enough to have an aunt/sister tell me I was killing him because it would hurt "the family's" image.  And you know what?  EVERY single one of those compromised I had to make for him have been massive BAD decisions for me/us.

You have to live your own life.  Transition may not be right for you, but you need to decide that because YOU feel it isn't.  Not because you were guilted to do it.  PLEASE talk to a therapist about your relationship.  You may find that they can help you feel so much better by losing misplaced guilt.

Quote from: Siobhan on December 22, 2011, 01:40:38 AM
It can be,i was 14 when my nan found out about how I felt(raised by my grandparants) she totally freaked out,called me a pervert etc,then she started drinking a lot,which meant she did not take her blood pressure meds,which meant she had a stroke...she died a few years later not even knowing who I was anymore. I've felt guilty my whole life, and lost the only person who ever did love me as a kid growing up.
Sometimes it can be bad.

That is a heavy burden to bear. I am hopping you have outgrow, and perhaps found some solace in the fact that perhaps if it was not your GID, maybe something else would have trigger her drinking and eventual death.

We give our children education and a sense of direction, what they do after that is their choice, and the consequences of their actions their own. This is true for the parents as well. To demand that our children to be who we want them to be is foolish at best; every young person has the right for the "persuit of happines."

Hey, can someone give me a quote on how much HRT medicine costs WITHOUT insurance? Is there generics so that it's cheap? I was paying $50 every 3 months for testosterone, is it comparable? Or is it like $300?

Quote from: jdinatale on December 23, 2011, 03:24:13 PM
Hey, can someone give me a quote on how much HRT medicine costs WITHOUT insurance? Is there generics so that it's cheap? I was paying $50 every 3 months for testosterone, is it comparable? Or is it like $300?

it depends on many factors. If you are going through a doctor, then there are generics and at Target they are cheap. I pay very little.

If you are doing it on your own, I wont comment on that :)

Quote from: Annah on December 23, 2011, 11:08:44 PM
it depends on many factors. If you are going through a doctor, then there are generics and at Target they are cheap. I pay very little.

If you are doing it on your own, I wont comment on that :)

Does Target have a membership plan? I'd much rather do that.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 23, 2011, 11:22:02 PM
Does Target have a membership plan? I'd much rather do that.

most of the hrt on the market has generics now and many of them are listed on their 4 dollar plan where you do not need a membership.

Quote from: Annah on December 23, 2011, 11:27:22 PM
most of the hrt on the market has generics now and many of them are listed on their 4 dollar plan where you do not need a membership.

woohoo...more money to spend on sodas and stuff in the "adult needs' section.

Quote from: Annah on December 23, 2011, 11:08:44 PM
it depends on many factors. If you are going through a doctor, then there are generics and at Target they are cheap. I pay very little.

If you are doing it on your own, I wont comment on that :)

Through a doctor. I have a Sam's club membership too. So it's seriously only like a $4 generic? Cause my testosterone shots were like $50.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 23, 2011, 11:42:04 PM
Through a doctor. I have a Sam's club membership too. So it's seriously only like a $4 generic? Cause my testosterone shots were like $50.

I know a FTM who only spent 4 bucks a month on Testosterone too.

Go to Walmart, CVS, Rite Aid, and target and ask for a print out of all the 4 dollar generic drugs and then take the list to your doctor.

Please do remember to not self medicate. In many countries these drugs are not available without a script. This means that your Dr is aware of what you are on and can monitor your health. Self medication will invariably mean you will take too much or too little. All of these drugs are very dangerous. Most are metabolised in the liver, and if the dose is too high the liver will not be happy, and you don't want an unhappy liver.

Cindy

Quote from: Cindy James on December 24, 2011, 12:37:40 AM
Please do remember to not self medicate. In many countries these drugs are not available without a script. This means that your Dr is aware of what you are on and can monitor your health. Self medication will invariably mean you will take too much or too little. All of these drugs are very dangerous. Most are metabolised in the liver, and if the dose is too high the liver will not be happy, and you don't want an unhappy liver.

Cindy

Okay, so.

I get that this is the official stance of this website, but seriously.  People act as if these drugs are cytotoxic compounds that are gateways to hard drugs.  Sure they're metabolized in the liver, and sure prolonged usage can lead to elevated liver enzymes, but bioidentical hormone injections, pills, gels, etc. are not "very dangerous".  They're not even somewhat dangerous.  They carry with them much, much lower side effects and risks than most other conventional medicines (and even those things that could be considered side effects are really more the differential risks that one has as a member of whichever sex, given their hormonal makeup).

There's no need to fearmonger about it.  Yeah, there are risks to self-medication, but they're not any greater than the potential suicide risk of not starting HRT.

Quote from: Wonderdyke on December 24, 2011, 12:20:03 PM
Okay, so.

I get that this is the official stance of this website, but seriously.  People act as if these drugs are cytotoxic compounds that are gateways to hard drugs.  Sure they're metabolized in the liver, and sure prolonged usage can lead to elevated liver enzymes, but bioidentical hormone injections, pills, gels, etc. are not "very dangerous".  They're not even somewhat dangerous.  They carry with them much, much lower side effects and risks than most other conventional medicines (and even those things that could be considered side effects are really more the differential risks that one has as a member of whichever sex, given their hormonal makeup).

There's no need to fearmonger about it.  Yeah, there are risks to self-medication, but they're not any greater than the potential suicide risk of not starting HRT.

There are TG people in wheel chairs because they took 'bioidentical" hormones. When you take that herbs and bioidentical crap, you are playing Russian roulette with you life. The dangers of these formulations as well as their ineffectiveness have been well documented.


Jen61

Quote from: Jen61 on December 24, 2011, 12:29:38 PM
There are TG people in wheel chairs because they took 'bioidentical" hormones. When you take that herbs and bioidentical crap, you are playing Russian roulette with you life. The dangers of these formulations as well as their ineffectiveness have been well documented.


Jen61

This.

Not to appeal to authority, but Jen61 from what I understand has a Ph.D and MD.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 24, 2011, 12:39:35 PM
This.

Not to appeal to authority, but Jen61 from what I understand has a Ph.D and MD.

In this forum my credentials are of no consequence. However ,I can provided references for my assertions. However, the TG community is well aware of many cases of harm affected by self-medication with herbs, black market formulations, or illegally procured.

At the end of the day people can believe and do what ever they want. I see my duty to report what I know. I try to be factual and not to be overbearing and pedantic.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 24, 2011, 12:29:38 PM
There are TG people in wheel chairs because they took 'bioidentical" hormones. When you take that herbs and bioidentical crap, you are playing Russian roulette with you life. The dangers of these formulations as well as their ineffectiveness have been well documented.


Jen61

I don't think we are talking about the same thing, here. There is plenty of access to HRT medications, real medications. I know plent of people who do it. Do I reccommend it? No. Would I do it? No. I also have have middle-class privelege and have a decent job. Heck, my meds are covered by insurance. Not everyone is as lucky. Whole books could be written about how unfair access to HRT can be, but that's not my point in this post.

Simply put, try and start HRT with a Rx. Try and do it the safe and correct way. If you can't, then educate yourself, make certain to purchase hormones through a crediable source, and get your blood tested at least twice a year. You are not any less of a person for doing it. Its your body.

Also, jdinatale, you can't appeal to authority with someone who has none.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 24, 2011, 12:39:35 PM
This.

Not to appeal to authority, but Jen61 from what I understand has a Ph.D and MD.

I believe everything Jen61 says, like I believe in unicorns and fairies.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Quote from: jdinatale on December 24, 2011, 12:39:35 PM
This.

Not to appeal to authority, but Jen61 from what I understand has a Ph.D and MD.

::)

Jeremiah 14:14
Qur'an 61.2-4
Proverbs 12:12

"When people lie about their credentials in order to gain a faster respect, their real truths will mean very little when the lie has been caught". Annah 2011

Quote from: Jen61 on December 24, 2011, 12:29:38 PM
There are TG people in wheel chairs because they took 'bioidentical" hormones. When you take that herbs and bioidentical crap, you are playing Russian roulette with you life. The dangers of these formulations as well as their ineffectiveness have been well documented.


Jen61

Funny, because last I heard 17ß-estradiol (you know, the bioidentical estrogen produced most by both men and women) is the hormone that most trans women take in varying quantities.  Russian roulette, huh?

I'm not talking about herbs.  That stuff is dumb and ineffective.  I'm talking about the stuff that, uh, every human being makes to varying extents.

Quote from: Wonderdyke on December 24, 2011, 03:54:02 PM
Funny, because last I heard 17ß-estradiol (you know, the bioidentical estrogen produced most by both men and women) is the hormone that most trans women take in varying quantities.  Russian roulette, huh?

I'm not talking about herbs.  That stuff is dumb and ineffective.  I'm talking about the stuff that, uh, every human being makes to varying extents.

I guess i should have ask you waht do you mean by bioidentical ?

Quote from: Wonderdyke on December 24, 2011, 03:54:02 PM
Funny, because last I heard 17ß-estradiol (you know, the bioidentical estrogen produced most by both men and women) is the hormone that most trans women take in varying quantities.  Russian roulette, huh?

I'm not talking about herbs.  That stuff is dumb and ineffective.  I'm talking about the stuff that, uh, every human being makes to varying extents.

Here form the proverbial horse mouth:

"What are Bioidentical Hormones?

Bioidentical hormones - or bio identical hormones - are derived from naturally occurring sources, such as yams and soy, and are designed to replicate the same chemical structure as the hormones that are produced naturally by our bodies. Based on your hormone levels, a specialized compounding pharmacy can individually tailor a bioidentical hormone regimen specifically designed for you.

On the flip side, synthetic hormones are intentionally different. Pharmaceutical companies can't patent bioidentical hormones because each regimen is specifically formulated to treat each patient on an individual basis. Instead, they manufacture synthetic hormones that are patentable
http://www.bodylogicmd.com/bioidentical-hormones (http://www.bodylogicmd.com/bioidentical-hormones)

Now the stuff people inn the link above pander to the gullible is not regulated by anybody because they are not sold as prescribed drugs but as nutritional supplements. So you do not know really what they are giving you, so yes, I stand by my assertion that is a Russian Roulette

Quote from: Jen61 on December 24, 2011, 05:12:38 PM
Here form the proverbial horse mouth:

"What are Bioidentical Hormones?

Bioidentical hormones - or bio identical hormones - are derived from naturally occurring sources, such as yams and soy, and are designed to replicate the same chemical structure as the hormones that are produced naturally by our bodies. Based on your hormone levels, a specialized compounding pharmacy can individually tailor a bioidentical hormone regimen specifically designed for you.

On the flip side, synthetic hormones are intentionally different. Pharmaceutical companies can't patent bioidentical hormones because each regimen is specifically formulated to treat each patient on an individual basis. Instead, they manufacture synthetic hormones that are patentable
http://www.bodylogicmd.com/bioidentical-hormones (http://www.bodylogicmd.com/bioidentical-hormones)

Now the stuff people inn the link above pander to the gullible is not regulated by anybody because they are not sold as prescribed drugs but as nutritional supplements. So you do not know really what they are giving you, so yes, I stand by my assertion that is a Russian Roulette

With a Masters of Science in Biochemistry, an MD in "Cancer", a Ph.D. in Biotechnology and a Masters of Science in Engineering, I am shocked you had to ask Wonderdyke what the definition of bioidentical and then had to google it.

This sorta of stuff is small fries to your academic profession. You should have known the answer.

Bioidentical hormone replacement therapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioidentical_hormone_replacement_therapy#Terminology)

I'm, uh, taking Estrace right now.  This isn't "an herbal supplement".  It's prescribed to me by an endocrinologist.

Micronized 17ß-estradiol is what "Estrace" is.  It's also available to be bought without a prescription by online providers.  It's also in no way perilous in a way that ethinyl estradiol (one of the more common semi-synthetic steroid hormones used in HRT) isn't.

It's misinformation to state that all providers online are giving you sketchy yam boob pills, because they're selling, online, right this instant, pills which are exactly identical to the stuff I pop in my mouth twice a day.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 24, 2011, 05:03:04 PM
I guess i should have ask you waht do you mean by bioidentical ?

\


Whoa you're a doctor? I thought you ran some financial firm or something.

Seems people here don't believe you Jen...

Quote from: Annah on December 24, 2011, 07:59:45 PM
With a Masters of Science in Biochemistry, an MD in "Cancer", a Ph.D. in Biotechnology and a Masters of Science in Engineering, I am shocked you had to ask Wonderdyke what the definition of bioidentical and then had to google it.

This sorta of stuff is small fries to your academic profession. You should have known the answer.

I am hoping one of the moderators is seeing this posting because you are revealing information that I confided to you in a private matter conversation. relaying on your confidentiality as a priest of an Anglican church.

Now you are revealing that information without my consent, and using that information to try to shame me as in a personal attack on Christmas eve, shame on you.

Jen61

Jen61, that isn't how one defines "revealing confidential information."

You may think of it as a personal attack; however, I see it as someone pretending to be a medical doctor and giving out HRT advice. That's not only unethical, but it can end up deadly. You could give someone advice here and say "trust me, I'm a doctor" and someone who believes you can get hurt. In real life you can go to prison for that.

Oh...I'm not a priest in an Anglican church although I use to be a children's pastor there. I am now with the United Church of Christ.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 24, 2011, 08:37:02 PM
Now you are using that information to try to shame me as in a personal attack on Christmas eve, shame on you.

Don't act like a drama queen after she put holes in your arguement.

You were the one who said you were a doctor, financial advisor in some top fortune 500 company, whatever.

Why should we believe anything you say? Your attacks on other members reveal that you're full of it...and as an alpha (fe)male...go ahead and call me out. I dont' care.

I see right through you.

Quote from: Wonderdyke on December 24, 2011, 08:15:25 PM
Bioidentical hormone replacement therapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioidentical_hormone_replacement_therapy#Terminology)

I'm, uh, taking Estrace right now.  This isn't "an herbal supplement".  It's prescribed to me by an endocrinologist.

Micronized 17ß-estradiol is what "Estrace" is.  It's also available to be bought without a prescription by online providers.  It's also in no way perilous in a way that ethinyl estradiol (one of the more common semi-synthetic steroid hormones used in HRT) isn't.

It's misinformation to state that all providers online are giving you sketchy yam boob pills, because they're selling, online, right this instant, pills which are exactly identical to the stuff I pop in my mouth twice a day.

I agree there are dangers to self medication.  But as Wonderdyke said Estrace is available online at certain places and it is any not different than we can buy in the US.  My PCP actually told me to finish out taking what I had went I switched from self medication to being monitored by her.  She also just wrote the prescriptions for the same dosages of the same medicines that I had been taking myself because all my blood work came back great.

In today's world it is very easy to find a therapist/Dr. combo that will prescribe HRT if you have the courage to ask them so why risk self medication.  And on top of that it is much cheaper with a legal prescription.  We don't need to use FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) to scare everyone straight.

Quote from: Jeneva on December 24, 2011, 08:49:16 PM
I agree there are dangers to self medication.  But as Wonderdyke said Estrace is available online at certain places and it is any not different than we can buy in the US.  My PCP actually told me to finish out taking what I had went I switched from self medication to being monitored by her.  She also just wrote the prescriptions for the same dosages of the same medicines that I had been taking myself because all my blood work came back great.

In today's world it is very easy to find a therapist/Dr. combo that will prescribe HRT if you have the courage to ask them so why risk self medication.  And on top of that it is much cheaper with a legal prescription.  We don't need to use FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) to scare everyone straight.

In the first world, in the privileged world, it's easy.  If you have the money to see a therapist, to see an endocrinologist or trans-friendly doctor (of which there are precious few, know that— I travel two hours for my prescriptions and I live in a metro area of two million people).

People self-medicate because they feel they have no other choice, most of the time, and they shouldn't be told they're risking their lives for doing so when, in most cases, they aren't.

Quote from: Jen61 on December 24, 2011, 08:37:02 PM
I am hoping one of the moderators is seeing this posting because you are revealing information that I confided to you in a private matter conversation. relaying on your confidentiality as a priest of an Anglican church.

Now you are revealing that information without my consent, and using that information to try to shame me as in a personal attack on Christmas eve, shame on you.

Jen61

I'm just going to say what we are all thinking:

Get out. You're a tool.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 24, 2011, 08:46:00 PM
Don't act like a drama queen after she put holes in your arguement.

You were the one who said you were a doctor, financial advisor in some top fortune 500 company, whatever.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,107609.msg815965.html#msg815965 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,107609.msg815965.html#msg815965)
They are my heros, My boss is the CEO of one of the largest defense industry company. The guy is a genious, a true consul of the empire.

She works for one of the largest defense industry companies there.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,111584.msg845994.html#msg845994 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,111584.msg845994.html#msg845994)
I taught anatomy in a medical school for over ten years, and I can tell you that based on my knowledge of anatomy

A professor at a medical school there.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,110016.msg849421.html#msg849421 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,110016.msg849421.html#msg849421)
I was attached to a USMC batallion for 3 years, kind of recently

She just recently served the Marine Corp for 3 years there.

*************************************************************

Basically, I could care less what you lie about.

I'm serous. You could say you're the president of the PTA club or any other thing. But there are two things you have done that rubs me the wrong way and believe me, it's not personal' it's more ethical than anything else.

1. The pic of a girl u used as an avatar. This got my attention because someone used my pic as an avatar and pretended to be me. Trust me, it doesn't feel good when someone takes your identity. You feel violated and then you feel angry because you spend months fixing the things the pretender did "in your name." Thank you for taking it down tho.

2. When you pretend to be a medical doctor and then give out medical advice and opinions. Anyone can give opinions but when you attach yourself as a doctor, then some people may believe you and then take your opinions as medically sounding facts. This could get someone killed or disabled. Also, it's illegal to pretend to be a doctor. There's a reason why it's illegal. People can die from faulty information.

Quote from: A_Dresden_Doll on December 24, 2011, 09:08:47 PM
I'm just going to say what we are all thinking:

Get out. You're a tool.

Hey, trolls are people too.

Quote from: Wonderdyke on December 24, 2011, 08:56:47 PM
In the first world, in the privileged world, it's easy.  If you have the money to see a therapist, to see an endocrinologist or trans-friendly doctor (of which there are precious few, know that— I travel two hours for my prescriptions and I live in a metro area of two million people).

People self-medicate because they feel they have no other choice, most of the time, and they shouldn't be told they're risking their lives for doing so when, in most cases, they aren't.

I understand why people self medicate.  As I said before I did for almost 2 years (most of that time was just Anti-Androgens).

WOW, I live in the buckle of the bible belt (upper north east TN - 1.5 hours to either VA or NC).  The first therapist I asked (admitted from a PFLAG list) and my PCP both were willing to help me.  This therapist is likely the closest to me of any around here even.  My therapist, PCP visits, and HRT are covered by my insurance (at least so far ;)).  I pay $25 for either office visit and my HRT is $10 a month for both E and AA.

The population of the biggest of the tri-cities is only 60k and the entire area is only 0.5 million and I have had no problems at all.  What general area do you live in that is worse than here even?  I want to make sure we don't move there when we finally get tired of how backward this area is.

CEO of one of the largest defense industry company

Being a Master of War is nothing to be proud of.  After all, what defense company would Jesus buy stock in?  That's what destroyed America, not what made it great.

Quote from: tekla on December 24, 2011, 09:24:50 PM
CEO of one of the largest defense industry company

Being a Master of War is nothing to be proud of.  After all, what defense company would Jesus buy stock in?  That's what destroyed America, not what made it great.

I thought the Kardashians were what was destroyin America?

Quote from: tekla on December 24, 2011, 09:24:50 PM
CEO of one of the largest defense industry company

Being a Master of War is nothing to be proud of.  After all, what defense company would Jesus buy stock in?  That's what destroyed America, not what made it great.

If anything, I think Jesus would buy stock in "Long John Silvers."

Quote from: Annah on December 24, 2011, 09:27:33 PM
If anything, I think Jesus would buy stock in "Long John Silvers."

John was more like 4 inches. Hardly a long John...

Now Aiden aka John is like 7 inches...competing with Ricky.

I am heartily sick of people breaking ToS 10 in this topic. Unfortunately it wasn't reported to me, otherwise there would be an ex-member and some members on moderation. 

ToS 10 states in part. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behaviour on this site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.

If I see any more of this activity from the members I have noted in this thread I will be issuing severe penalties.

There is a report to Moderator button on the lower right hand side of the message area. If you wish to report anything use it. Susan is adamant that people who continually flout the rules will have their accounts deleted and their ips will be blocked to prevent any access to the site.

Cindy James
Global Moderator.