Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello girls,

As some of you know, my big day is in February and so I have a lot of things on my mind right now. So now I'm wondering, when I have sex, there won't be any place for the sperm to swim to and settle in. So if a guy ejaculates inside of me, will the semen just sort of drip out once you are vertical? Or how does that work?

Chrissi

It happens with cis-girls as well you know.

Always good to take a shower after sex, or make him wear a condom

Or make him sleep on the wet spot...

-Sandy

Quote from: Icephoenyx on December 19, 2011, 09:08:17 PM
Hello girls,

As some of you know, my big day is in February and so I have a lot of things on my mind right now. So now I'm wondering, when I have sex, there won't be any place for the sperm to swim to and settle in. So if a guy ejaculates inside of me, will the semen just sort of drip out once you are vertical? Or how does that work?

Chrissi

it'll drip out. Happens with Genetic girls too

Some of it will drip, but some will stay. If it stays in there it will start to smell, so it's best to either take a long bath afterwards or (more practical) just buy a douche and clean up quickly afterwards.

If you don't have a douche handy, a small bottle of sparkling mineral water can be handy (shake first) :).

Make him sleep on the wet spot- he did it!

I thought douching was bad for you.  I've always heard that it kills the good bacteria and allows the bad bacteria to thrive, and this is for gg vaginas which are supposedly self-cleaning. 

I think over-regular douching is bad for the body, but as needed, it's better than harbouring foreign matter in a part of the body that can't naturally flush it out.

Good question OP. Will you be able to "push" the semen out?

Padma, I think your suggestion of a mineral water flush sounds good and safe.  I've never douched in my life, because I've always been advised not to.  So far, so good.  Women are so obsessed with their natural bodily functions and scents.  I think they feel that they have to separate themselves from anything remotely sexual.  They want to smell like flowers and perfume.

My suggestion was a little tongue-in-cheek, but it's based on reading about third world sex workers using diet pepsi as a douche, because whatever godawful chemicals are in it act as a spermicide and bactericide :(. Mineral water should at worst just be a little acidic - shake it up, spray it in, let it run out. A douche is less wasteful, but one doesn't always have one in the back pocket.

A home-grown vagina will do a good job of flushing itself out, but a hand-made one doesn't have the same capability, alas, and needs some help - whether it's sperm, or a build-up of leftover lube from sex or dilating. But only when it actually needs it, because as you say, a build-up of benign flora is what keeps a girl fresh, not anything out of a bottle.

I'm glad we explored the douching topic.  I'm kind of a less is more girl and like to keep things as natural as possible. Thanks for the info, Padma.  I am now wondering what makes the natural vaginal self-cleaning.  I'm thinking that it is constantly lubricating and pushing stuff out, which is why we have discharge.

It's nice discussing these things girl to girl!

natural vaginas release cleansing fluid and push it out with gentle waves or squeezing motions starting at the back - exactly the same ways kids get the last drops of juice out of those plastic tube ice lollies.

a neo-vag will get the same effect every time the person sits to empty the bowels...

and just maybe both sorts of vaginas will relax during sleep and let it happen naturally?

A neovag doesn't have any flow from above to aid flushing out, though (except a little natural lube in some cases). This is why it may need assistance from outside from time to time to keep crevices unclagged :).

Quote from: Padma on December 20, 2011, 10:26:14 AM
A neovag doesn't have any flow from above to aid flushing out, though (except a little natural lube in some cases). This is why it may need assistance from outside from time to time to keep crevices unclagged :).

god bless deep bathtubs with strong water pressure HA!

Ok but wouldn't it drip out moreso for us tg's, since gg's get more of it 'absorbed' into the fallopians and the ovaries, don't they?

depends on how "crinkly" our insides end up, I suppose.

Quote from: Icephoenyx on December 21, 2011, 12:46:57 AM
Ok but wouldn't it drip out moreso for us tg's, since gg's get more of it 'absorbed' into the fallopians and the ovaries, don't they?

That is usually referred to as pregnancy.

The cervix will spasm open during orgasm (the main purpose of climax) and allow the sperm to enter the uterus.  But the amount of fluid of seminal fluid that is drawn in is minimal.

I think that the "drip" factor is approximately the same for trans and non-trans women.  Some seminal fluid is absorbed by the body, but most will leak out if we sit up or even lie horizontally.

One advice from fertility specialists is to remain in the knee-chest position following coitus to allow more sperm to enter the uterus, and as a side result more fluid is absorbed by the vaginal walls.

You could try that but it's just easier to get up and clean up.

-Sandy

Ejaculate which has been in the vagina soon starts to smell very fishy and quite unpleasant.
I don't know why, because neither the guy's ejaculate nor the girl's secretions smell so ghastly alone, but put together and left to marinate for a couple of hours or more produces a stink. 
This point was made to me by my lesbian girlfriend who did in the past sleep with a couple of guys.   It is also something that I clearly noticed myself whilst male and sleeping with girls.
Whether or not the neo-vagina produces identical results I have no idea, I am 15 months post-op but have not slept with a guy.

(Also..... unless you absolutely know for certain that your lover is free of disease, you should be using a condom, in which case your question would not apply)

It will drip out naturally.  Now I DONT believe in unsafe sex EVA but i have had 3 condoms break on me but i douched immediately afterwards BUT i have inserted lube in me thinking that i was about to have sex and i didnt and the next morning it was all out.  I didnt DOUCHE it out, it just came out naturally.  Believe it or not, your vagina is more like a genetic one than most think. 

GRAVITY will pull it out.  just put on a pad afterwards and see what ends up there.

Quote from: missyzanta on December 27, 2011, 11:21:19 AM
It will drip out naturally.  Now I DONT believe in unsafe sex EVA but i have had 3 condoms break on me but i douched immediately afterwards BUT i have inserted lube in me thinking that i was about to have sex and i didnt and the next morning it was all out.  I didnt DOUCHE it out, it just came out naturally.  Believe it or not, your vagina is more like a genetic one than most think. 

GRAVITY will pull it out.  just put on a pad afterwards and see what ends up there.

Yeah, a Post op-Vagina will with time become very much like a genetic one. in both tissue and function.
However, it is still recommended to clean it out now and then, as a Neo-Vagina is not as good at keeping itself clean as a Bio-Vagina is.
A guy that had been with, I think it was ten, Post-ops, said that each and every one of them really smelled horribly from their vaginas, probably because they didn't clean it properly. Perhaps because they either just didn't care, or, because they, as many MTF's unfortunately do think, thought that they did not need to, as a female is "supposed to smell", and hence become all yucky.

So, a good but careful cleaning with water and a couple of fingers now and then, is recommended.
If worried about disturbing the Vaginal PH, then a drop of Vinegar can be added in the final flush.

Well now, if a guy does not wash after he had e.g. masturbated (ejaculated) it will start to get stinky too, as semen deteriorates within a short time and will get smelly. This is regards non-circumcised penises were semen will get trapped under the foreskin.

Now put that 'load' inside a neo-vj it would go pretty much the same way real soon, right?
Yet put it inside a bio-vj it mostly does NOT go off so fast, if at all (bio-vj chemistry I guess) – it's my own experience in both cases.

But the MOST unpleasant smell I had experienced was from an early post-op version of a colovaginoplasty neo-vj... enough to put some poor guy off for good. It smelled like carrion... like dead meat, grrr

My own (non-colo) I keep checking by sniffing on the used dilators and it thankfully is almost odourless. I hope it stays :-)

Axélle

Quote from: Axélle-Michélle on December 28, 2011, 09:26:59 AM
Well now, if a guy does not wash after he had e.g. masturbated (ejaculated) it will start to get stinky too, as semen deteriorates within a short time and will get smelly. This is regards non-circumcised penises were semen will get trapped under the foreskin.

Now put that 'load' inside a neo-vj it would go pretty much the same way real soon, right?
Yet put it inside a bio-vj it mostly does NOT go off so fast, if at all (bio-vj chemistry I guess) – it's my own experience in both cases.

But the MOST unpleasant smell I had experienced was from an early post-op version of a colovaginoplasty neo-vj... enough to put some poor guy off for good. It smelled like carrion... like dead meat, grrr

My own (non-colo) I keep checking by sniffing on the used dilators and it thankfully is almost odourless. I hope it stays :-)

Axélle

Well, not only because of the Semen, but simply because some Post-op Vaginas still builds up stuff like Smegma and dead skin cells inside, something that a Neo-Vagina is not as good as discharging as a Bio-Vagina is.

Some Vaginas of the "older model" may also have hairgrowth inside of them, which in time and in the worse cases may form into an hairball in the deep of the vagina, where bacterias and dead skincells will get trapped.

So, even if a Post op MTF would stay in celibate, it is a good idea to not take the hygiene for granted, so to say, so it is good that you give it a sniff now and them. :P

* ... so it is good that you give it a sniff now and then *

'Mo betta' give it a good sniff EVERY DAY, babe :-)

How some girls can get used to that stink leaves me stunned - I mean such bad odour IS stunning. I smelled it!
Gross, to say the least.

Not so sure about that hair issue, they will die real fast in this sort of environment – at least that's what I read.

Axélle

Quote from: Axélle-Michélle on December 28, 2011, 10:53:07 AM
* ... so it is good that you give it a sniff now and then *

'Mo betta' give it a good sniff EVERY DAY, babe :-)

How some girls can get used to that stink leaves me stunned - I mean such bad odour IS stunning. I smelled it!
Gross, to say the least.

Not so sure about that hair issue, they will die real fast in this sort of environment – at least that's what I read.

Axélle

Lol Yeah, it is amazing what kind of odours people can get oblivious too, even when those odours are coming from themselves.
Yuck :P

About the hairstuff, I think it is a problem that occurs only when the surgeons is using the older methods and don't thin the penile and scrotal skin properly or scrapes away the follicles. So even if that skin- when turned on the inside- in time still morhps to a degree, the skin will probably still remain too rough to completely loose all the hairfollicles in the way that a properly thinned down graft does.

Just a guess, though, as I don't actually know, but as there are long term Post-ops with hairgrowth, then that has to be caused by something. :-\
On the other hand, there are also lots of Post-ops having "old fashioned" vaginas that have no hairgrowth at all, yet their vaginas are totally smooth inside and works perfectly in all aspects, so it is most likely also something individual, aswell as surgical.

My neo-vagina does not smell much either and what odour there is resembles a clean cis-woman. 
I too keep check on it by sniffing the dilators.  A bad odour from them is an early warning of a problem and gives you chance to deal with it before it really gets going.  Bad odours arise from allowing the wrong bacteria to multiply in there.
Cis-women smell good - those that smell bad are not looking after themselves properly! ( - I slept with about 20 girlfriends and was intimate with about 20 more so I do know.)

I douche once or perhaps twice a week, not necessarily straight after dilation. 
Apart from the month post-op when I douched after each dilation and added a few drops of antiseptic.
I just use plain water. It works for me.

Quote from: Steffi on December 21, 2011, 11:53:45 PM
Ejaculate which has been in the vagina soon starts to smell very fishy and quite unpleasant.

def this.

Something I wasn't prepared for nor did anyone tell me about. So now I ALWAYS take a bath right after it or if we made love at night, then bath first thing in the morning

Quote from: Icephoenyx on December 21, 2011, 12:46:57 AM
Ok but wouldn't it drip out moreso for us tg's, since gg's get more of it 'absorbed' into the fallopians and the ovaries, don't they?

No, it doesn't absorb into the fallopian tubes or ovaries.  One sperm penetrates an egg (typically) if fertilization occurs and the rest drains out.  It is the same for us as for cis-gender women, basically it drains out either way.

Personally I felt pretty good about having my mans sperm inside of me and I never took any special measures beyond using a sex towel or sitting on the sex towel afterwards.  Though occasionally I would insert an acidophilus capsule into myself after sex.

This is an oddly incorrect topic to talk about but I figure I'd give some input on my experience. I've been having sex with my fiance for 2 years and we've never used a condom (we both have gotten checked), I don't like it when he adds the cream in my pie but sometimes it does happen and usually you can just use your vagina muscles to push it out. I still douche though every time after he ejaculates, I usually douche....hold the water in my vagina....jump up and down and shake rigorously my body....and then sit on the toilet and push. All the water will come spraying out...just push like you are going number 2 on the toilet...this will clean everything up nice and tidy!!

Quote from: Bishounen on December 28, 2011, 09:46:51 AM
Well, not only because of the Semen, but simply because some Post-op Vaginas still builds up stuff like Smegma and dead skin cells inside, something that a Neo-Vagina is not as good as discharging as a Bio-Vagina is.

Some Vaginas of the "older model" may also have hairgrowth inside of them, which in time and in the worse cases may form into an hairball in the deep of the vagina, where bacterias and dead skincells will get trapped.

No problem, I shave the inside of my vagina twice a week. lol
I never heard so much nonsens, I have a 28 years old vagina.....hairballs? I do have a pussy, but I'm not a cat.

Some have hair growth inside the vagina, some don't.  The wise thing to do is to have thorough electrolysis before surgery because if you are unfortunate enough to have regrowth post op it can be very troublesome and impossible to permanently cure.

When I was in for my op there was a girl in for investigation of a vaginal problem with loss of depth and recurring infections.  It turned out that she had a hairball like a Brillo pad (pan scrubber) jammed into the top of her vagina and secured in place by it's entanglement with still rooted hairs.
My electrologist has been treating transwomen for over 20 years and has heard many such stories because they come to her seeking help - which she is unable to give.

Quote from: annette on January 11, 2012, 12:56:43 PM
No problem, I shave the inside of my vagina twice a week. lol
I never heard so much nonsens, I have a 28 years old vagina.....hairballs? I do have a pussy, but I'm not a cat.

Nonsense? Okay, ask Marci Bowers, Dr McGinn, Meltzer or any other SRS-surgeon you wish about it, and you will learn that most surgeons will indeed recommend doing Electrolysis before Vaginoplasty, as, after all and whether you like it or not, your Vagina is made of Cock-tissue, which in some males will also have a lot of hair growing on that tissue. Some surgeons, even in regards of the older SRS-techiques, carefully scraped the hairfollicles of the skin before lining the vaginal walls with it, while others, however, did not do so at all, which not seldomly resulted in the patient ending up with a vagina that was hairy as a bear on the inside.
In time, such hair has the habit of getting twisted up in each other and may form a pad of hair, where bacterias and dead skincells gets stuck, which, not the least, may also feel very unfortumtable for the person having these problems.

Nowadays, the surgeons performing the very latest SRS, scrapes the tissues thoroughly to free them from the follicles. However, as the surgeons cannot guarantee that they manage to get rid of each and every hairfollicle, they recommend Electrolysis to be on the safe side.
Or, as Dr. McGinn puts it on her infosite: "Genital electrolysis is not required for any surgical operation performed by Dr. McGinn, though it is highly recommended. "

The only surgeon I know of that actually recommend the patient not to have any Eletrolysis prior to Surgery, is Dr. Suporn, as he have developed a specific type of removing the follicles by splicing the surface they are attached to.

Some images and figures on the topic; (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmarcibowers.com%2Fgrs%2Fremovehair.jpg&hash=715fc9612084fe03d06f7ab1e1693b2c79bf2352)
And, the requirements on the matter from Dr- Toby Meltzer(Info liften from tsrodemap);

QuoteElectrolysis In the transgender Male to Female Patient Preparing for Sexual Reassignment Surgery

By Susan Diskin RN and Cheryl Naumoff RN with the office of Toby R. Meltzer, MD, PC, Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, Portland, Oregon

Reviewed By Toby R. Meltzer MD

Dr. Melter is a Board Certified Plastic and Reconstructive surgeon who has performed over 1000 Sexual Reassignment Surgeries since 1991. Presently, he performs three Vaginoplasty surgeries a week. He also is a Clinical Assistant Professor at Oregon Health Services University. Dr. Meltzer's web site is www.tmeltzer.com (http://www.tmeltzer.com)

    [editor's note: this document was sent to me by Linda Takata of Dr. Meltzer's office in March 2002. She writes:

        He is now recommending that one clear the shaft all the way to the base (which creates just a slight ring) and the back of the scrotum (as indicated in the article). He found that even with decreasing the area around the base of the penis to 1cm, many patients (or electrologists were going to an extreme). He also found that the area beyond the base could be effectively done post SRS and this allows the patient to have better control of the area they would like to have hair.

And more taken from safer Sex Post-SRS;

QuoteIf your vagina was constructed out of penile skin, you may also experience itching and discharge related to hair growth in your neo-vagina.

http://www.thebody.com/content/art48763.html (http://www.thebody.com/content/art48763.html)

Quote from: Bishounen on January 11, 2012, 01:35:44 PM
The only surgeon I know of that actually recommend the patient not to have any Eletrolysis prior to Surgery, is Dr. Suporn, as he have developed a specific type of removing the follicles by splicing the surface they are attached to.

Brassard asks all patients to avoid doing electrolysis of the genital region.

Some surgeons (e.g. Suporn) use techniques which allow for and are very effective at removing all hair follicles, others don't.
It is a matter to be advised by your own surgeon.  The issue with having electrolysis is that it may cause scarring and add to the difficulty of getting grafts to "take"
Either way, internal hair is extremely undesirable and troublesome so seek instruction from your own surgeon.

Personally, since there is only the one chance to get this right and deal with what could become a serious lifelong issue, I would invest the time and the relatively small amount of money involved unless my surgeon specifically instructed against it.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 11, 2012, 01:35:44 PM
Nonsense? Okay, ask Marci Bowers, Dr McGinn, Meltzer or any other SRS-surgeon you wish about it, and you will learn that most surgeons will indeed recommend doing Electrolysis before Vaginoplasty.

Regardless of what these particular surgeons recommend.  Most surgeons will scrape or cauterize hair follicles on the graft site just before being used.  Electrolysis only increases the likelihood that all follicles will be destroyed before the graft is part of your vagina.

From Dr P Brassard website sums it up best by saying at the end of the Electrolysis Section "At this time we do not feel that hair removal is indicated." (http://srsmontreal.com/2009/08/31/male-to-female-mtf-srs-info-for-patient-in-usa/)

So in a sense electrolysis down there is a complete waste of time and money.  In fact all three of the surgeons you mentioned will still do the scrapping when the surgery is being done.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 11, 2012, 01:35:44 PMwhether you like it or not, your Vagina is made of Cock-tissue, which in some males will also have a lot of hair growing on that tissue. Some surgeons, even in regards of the older SRS-techiques, carefully scraped the hairfollicles of the skin before lining the vaginal walls with it, while others, however, did not do so at all, which not seldomly resulted in the patient ending up with a vagina that was hairy as a bear on the inside.

Does not matter how much hair there is, electrolysis can miss hairs and in which case can end up inside the vagina.  I never had electrolysis down there, therefore in that case those hairs were scrapped.  As far as I know I never had any problems in regards to any hairs on the inside.  Which goes to show regardless of whether it's old surgery or new surgery, if the scrapping technique was done correctly in the first place, then there would not be any problems with hair.  In fact you also mentioned that some surgeons did not do the job properly.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 11, 2012, 01:35:44 PMIn time, such hair has the habit of getting twisted up in each other and may form a pad of hair, where bacterias and dead skincells gets stuck, which, not the least, may also feel very unfortumtable for the person having these problems.

Nowadays, the surgeons performing the very latest SRS, scrapes the tissues thoroughly to free them from the follicles. However, as the surgeons cannot guarantee that they manage to get rid of each and every hairfollicle, they recommend Electrolysis to be on the safe side.
Or, as Dr. McGinn puts it on her infosite: "Genital electrolysis is not required for any surgical operation performed by Dr. McGinn, though it is highly recommended. "

No surgeon can guarantee the total removal of hair and that goes for the electrologist.  Yes, it would seem that having electrolysis would add to the 'safe side', but to what extent?  There are thousands who have had surgery, but there has been no study that I'm aware of, on those who just had scrapping, against those who had electrolysis and scrapping or even dare I say those who just had electrolysis.

My surgeon never requested that I get electrolysis down there and my surgeon predates Bowers, Meltzer, McGinn and Brassard and my surgery was done 21 years ago.

Basic hygiene will take care of the other problems that have been mentioned.

Regards
Sarah B

Quote from: Bishounen on January 11, 2012, 01:35:44 PM
Nonsense? Okay, ask Marci Bowers, Dr McGinn, Meltzer or any other SRS-surgeon you wish about it, and you will learn that most surgeons will indeed recommend doing Electrolysis before Vaginoplasty, as, after all and whether you like it or not, your Vagina is made of Cock-tissue, which in some males will also have a lot of hair growing on that tissue. Some surgeons, even in regards of the older SRS-techiques, carefully scraped the hairfollicles of the skin before lining the vaginal walls with it, while others, however, did not do so at all, which not seldomly resulted in the patient ending up with a vagina that was hairy as a bear on the inside.
In time, such hair has the habit of getting twisted up in each other and may form a pad of hair, where bacterias and dead skincells gets stuck, which, not the least, may also feel very unfortumtable for the person having these problems.

Nowadays, the surgeons performing the very latest SRS, scrapes the tissues thoroughly to free them from the follicles. However, as the surgeons cannot guarantee that they manage to get rid of each and every hairfollicle, they recommend Electrolysis to be on the safe side.
Or, as Dr. McGinn puts it on her infosite: "Genital electrolysis is not required for any surgical operation performed by Dr. McGinn, though it is highly recommended. "

      Interesting information.    I DID ask Dr. McGinn about it in person and she downplayed it's importance at my pre-op consultation.   I am a McGinn Girl and all her patients will tell you that she is "by-the-book" and very detailed and emphatic in her warnings and her directions.   She said it's a matter of personal choice and I could go either way, it's not a big deal.

      Your quote from her is lifted from the section of her website offering her own electrolysis services.   I was originally scheduled to have it done at her facility and had some things come up that required me to re-schedule and the electrolysis wasn't available when I actually did get my initial consultation.   I expressed a lot of concern about missing it and she said then not to sweat it.

       Her actual quote from her website has different words in bold than your quote:

      " Genital electrolysis is not required for any surgical operation performed by Dr. McGinn, though it is highly recommended."

       Here's the actual link:  http://www.drchristinemcginn.com/services/electrolysis.php (http://www.drchristinemcginn.com/services/electrolysis.php)

       I wanted to clarify Dr. McGinn's position, since you cited her as a source for your information.   

       If Dr. McGinn felt it was important, believe me, she would say so and she downplayed it's importance.

My cat is vomiting hairballs once in a while, not my pussy.
I think there are more old post ops around here, maybe they will react about this subject.
I know some girls who are operated in my time (1984) and I never heard of one of them, they had hairballs.
The vagina will become mucosa after some time, there is no hair growing on mucosa, no one will shave the inside of the mouth, right?
I wonder or these precautions of electrolysis are evidence based, if so, I would like to read this study, so if anyone can give this information, thanks in advantage.

Quote from: Sarah B on January 11, 2012, 09:43:45 PM
Regardless of what these particular surgeons recommend.  Most surgeons will scrape or cauterize hair follicles on the graft site just before being used.  Electrolysis only increases the likelihood that all follicles will be destroyed before the graft is part of your vagina.

Indeed true, but, all the surgeons, except for Suporn, also states that they cannot guarantee that they will get all the hairfollicles, and therefore Eletrolysis is, if the patient wants to be on the safe side, a must.

The now retired SRS-surgeon Eugene Schrang stated in his information from 2002 on hair removal prior to SRS:

Quote

    Hair can be removed by electrolysis or laser prior to surgery.  But better still is the cutting away of the hair follicles while thinning the graft with scissors which can be done by me at the time of surgery followed by electrocoagulation of the follicles.  This saves the patient time and money not to mention great discomfort from painful electrolysis.  Since electrocoagulation is time consuming, we charge an extra $500 for this. 

However, he do emphasize that;

QuoteNo matter what method is used to remove hair, the removal of ALL hair follicles is usually never completely accomplished and some hair may grow in the neo-vagina.  This is why you must begin early to remove as much hair as possible from the scrotum if you wish me to use your scrotum as a full thickness graft and do not want me to remove the hair at surgery.

QuoteFrom Dr P Brassard website sums it up best by saying at the end of the Electrolysis Section "At this time we do not feel that hair removal is indicated." (http://srsmontreal.com/2009/08/31/male-to-female-mtf-srs-info-for-patient-in-usa/)

Indeed, some surgeons do not feel this is necessary, as the majority of the hair nowadays will be removed during the surgey. However, for best result, Eletrolysis is recommended.

[/quote]So in a sense electrolysis down there is a complete waste of time and money.  In fact all three of the surgeons you mentioned will still do the scrapping when the surgery is being done.
Does not matter how much hair there is, electrolysis can miss hairs and in which case can end up inside the vagina.[/quote]
Completely incorrect. Firstly, Genital Eletcrolysis, when done right, is 100% permanent, simply because the hairfollicles are litterally fried.
However, actually frying the hairfolicles, is nowadays only done regarding Genital Eletrolysis- Not facial or bodily, as frying them may leave scarring. However, as scarring in the vaginal canal is not visible, such an issue is not considered a problem.

QuoteI never had electrolysis down there, therefore in that case those hairs were scrapped.  As far as I know I never had any problems in regards to any hairs on the inside.

Good for you. However you are a single patient- not a patient in a metastudie, and do as such not examplify the norm in this regards, therefore, your personal account is not sufficient. Although, ofcourse, I do congratulate you on the success.

QuoteWhich goes to show regardless of whether it's old surgery or new surgery, if the scrapping technique was done correctly in the first place, then there would not be any problems with hair.  In fact you also mentioned that some surgeons did not do the job properly.

Again, regardless of how much the surgeons scrapes the tissue, the surgeon may not get all hairfollicles and therefore no scraping technique is 100% certain.

QuoteNo surgeon can guarantee the total removal of hair and that goes for the electrologist.

Wrong. Eletrolysis is 100% permanent. I don't know what kind of Electrologists you have experiance of, but if an Electrologist tells you that they cannot guarantee permanent removal, then save your money and go to another one or do something better with the money such as rolling them into cigarrs and smoke them or something.

QuoteYes, it would seem that having electrolysis would add to the 'safe side', but to what extent?  There are thousands who have had surgery, but there has been no study that I'm aware of, on those who just had scrapping, against those who had electrolysis and scrapping or even dare I say those who just had electrolysis.

Exccept for what the surgeons say themselves.
Also to be remembered, are that just because a surgeon say that "It is not a problem", it doesn't mean that it won't be any.
For instance, a SRS-surgeon, whos name I unfortunately do not recall, said in an interview that "Sometimes the patient grows hair inside, but on the other hand there doesn't grow any grass on a wellwalked lane". 
::)

QuoteMy surgeon never requested that I get electrolysis down there and my surgeon predates Bowers, Meltzer, McGinn and Brassard and my surgery was done 21 years ago.

Well even the old scandal surgeon John Brown scraped the tissue- Some of his patients were lucky and had no problem whatsoever, while other were stuck with hairy bearpussys.
Which reasoning do you think is the smartest regarding a permanent decision like this; Spending some extra money on electrolysis to be 100% on the safe side and not ever having to worry the slightest about it, or, being stubborn and think;"There will not be any problem because my surgeon will take care of it!".
Both I and Steffi know which reasoning is the smart one and which is the stupid one.

QuoteBasic hygiene will take care of the other problems that have been mentioned.

Depends. If the Vagina is hairfree, then yes, Basic hygiene will take care of all those problems.
However if it is hairy, then it highly depends. If little to none hairgrowth, then yes, but, if there is much hairgrowth and the hairs have tangled up in each other and formed a carpet of hair, then dead tissue cells and bacterias will get stuck within that hair, and you can flush your snatch all you want but the yucky stuff will still be there unless regulary plucked out by a Gynechologist.


Reminds me, by the way, of an MTF by the name of Claudia, that after her SRS in 1986, one day had a very yucky experience;

QuoteOne day I was making love and something didn't feel right. There was this little ball of hair like a Brillo pad in my vagina." In 1995 she went to see a surgeon who pulled the hair out but warned it would grow back. "He said it would always be there because I hadn't had electrolysis on my scrotum before the sex change made it part of my vagina. When I heard that, I just sat and cried."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/jul/31/health.socialcare (http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/jul/31/health.socialcare)

The expression "Better safe than sorry", is in this regards very fitting.

Quote from: Re: Joyce on January 12, 2012, 04:53:32 AM
     

       Her actual quote from her website has different words in bold than your quote:

      " Genital electrolysis is not required for any surgical operation performed by Dr. McGinn, though it is highly recommended."

It doesn't have different wording, you have merely highlighted a different section of the very same sentence that I posted earlier on. ::)




     

QuoteI wanted to clarify Dr. McGinn's position, since you cited her as a source for your information.   

       If Dr. McGinn felt it was important, believe me, she would say so and she downplayed it's importance.

It is not important for people to regulary shower and wash themselves either, however it is recommended.

QuoteReminds me, by the way, of an MTF by the name of Claudia, that after her SRS in 1986, one day had a very yucky experience;

For a second I thought you were talking about me, as that is my name, although I then realised I was not even born in 1986  :D

I did, however have 2 years worth of genital electrolysis - I had James Bellringer as my surgeon, and Charing Cross have become more strict on insisting on hair removal in the desire area for the scrotal inlay technique, as the scrotal tissue effectively becomes the lining of the vagina. They do not require it, however for the penile inversion technique.

Hi Bishounen

In your reply to my comments you state:

Quote from: Bishounen on January 12, 2012, 09:30:36 AMIndeed true, but, all the surgeons, except for Suporn, also states that they cannot guarantee that they will get all the hairfollicles, and therefore Eletrolysis is, if the patient wants to be on the safe side, a must.

From Dr Suporn's website (http://www.supornclinic.com/restricted/Scheduling/protocol.aspx) and the section on Electrolysis.

QuotePrior genital electrolysis is not required. Permanent genital depilation is unnecessary,  expensive and uncomfortable. All hair follicles are manually excised (cut) from the scrotal skin during surgery, and will not grow subsequently. A hair-free vaginal lining is guaranteed. Prior electrolysis of the scrotal area may result in scarring and thickening of the skin which could reduce its elasticity and vaginal depth. If desired, only the perineal region (perineum) between the anus to the scrotum should be cleared (which can also be cleared after SRS).

It is commendable that Dr Suporn will guarantee that the vagina will be hair free, however if you note, 'hair follicles are manually excised' and there in lies the problem.  It is possible that hair follicles will be missed.  Therefore it can not be totally guaranteed and it remains possible that some hairs could remain using Dr Suporn's technique.

Having electrolysis is not necessary (or a must) and the only reason is to allay the fears of those under going surgery.  All of the Surgeons mentioned so far all use scrapping, cauterizing or excising of the follicles regardless of whether electrolysis has been carried out down below or not.  It is up to the individual if they decide that electrolysis is a must for themselves.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 12, 2012, 09:30:36 AMIndeed, some surgeons do not feel this is necessary, as the majority of the hair nowadays will be removed during the surgey. However, for best result, Eletrolysis is recommended.

'Best result' how do you know this? Can you site peer reviewed papers that site the number of post operative patients who have had electrolysis and 'scrapping' (and other methods) compared with those who have just had scrapping alone?  Best result is just your opinion and of course the surgeons recommending this particular approach.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 12, 2012, 09:30:36 AMCompletely incorrect. Firstly, Genital Eletcrolysis, when done right, is 100% permanent, simply because the hairfollicles are litterally fried.

I agree with you that electrolysis is 100% permanent.  If and only if the hair follicles are literally destroyed.  First there are 3 stages to hair growth and the third stage, the resting or telogen phase no hair is growing and hence the electrologist will not be able to destroy that hair follicle, secondly if the hair follicle is not completely destroyed then hairs can still grow back, albeit finer and therefore harder to see and hence not be able to locate the hair follicle so that it can be destroyed.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 12, 2012, 09:30:36 AMHowever, actually frying the hairfolicles, is nowadays only done regarding Genital Eletrolysis- Not facial or bodily, as frying them may leave scarring. However, as scarring in the vaginal canal is not visible, such an issue is not considered a problem.

You may consider it 'not a problem', but others may and if scarring is the result of genital electrolysis, I would seriously be seeking another electrologist.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 12, 2012, 09:30:36 AMGood for you. However you are a single patient- not a patient in a metastudie, and do as such not examplify the norm in this regards, therefore, your personal account is not sufficient. Although, ofcourse, I do congratulate you on the success.

Yes, I'm just one example and there are many others, again how do you know I'm not the norm? Do you have the numbers on those who have had electrolysis and those who did not?  My account is sufficient so that others are made aware of what is possible in regards to surgery.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 12, 2012, 09:30:36 AMWell even the old scandal surgeon John Brown scraped the tissue- Some of his patients were lucky and had no problem whatsoever, while other were stuck with hairy bearpussys.

Then Dr John Brown did not do the procedure correctly.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 12, 2012, 09:30:36 AMWhich reasoning do you think is the smartest regarding a permanent decision like this; Spending some extra money on electrolysis to be 100% on the safe side and not ever having to worry the slightest about it, or, being stubborn and think;"There will not be any problem because my surgeon will take care of it!".
Both I and Steffi know which reasoning is the smart one and which is the stupid one.

Again show me the peer reviewed studies that electrolysis and scrapping is better than scrapping alone.  Then and only then, will I make an informed decision on what I believe is the best method.

The ad hominem attacks you used in the above quote and using them on me, into thinking one method is better than another without actual proof is pointless and futile.

Quote from: Bishounen on January 12, 2012, 09:30:36 AMThe expression "Better safe than sorry", is in this regards very fitting.

No it's not.  All well and good if you want to play upon people's emotions.  Yes I know its their happiness and contentment that is at stake and as mentioned before it is up to the person deciding what course of action they take.  Right or wrong it is their choice and their choice alone.  You have not shown that the chances of adverse consequences is significantly higher or any worse when 'scrapping or cauterizing the tissue' is used.  Individuals need to hear both sides of these particular issue, both positive and negative consequences of the methods involved so that they can finally decide what is the best method to be used for themselves.

We only hear of those people who have hair problems and even then we do not know what procedures they went through.  As has been stated before it is recommended that one has electrolysis and not "its an absolute requirement' for having surgery.

Kind regards
Sarah B

Final and irrefutable logical word on this subject.
There ARE some people who have hair growing inside their vagina and have a big problem with it.  This is undeniable - I have met some and seen several posts from others.

Explain HOW that hair got there then?

I shan't post on this again.  Should any problem arise for you it will not affect me in the slightest.  I have told you what I know.
You do whatever you wish.   :)

Simply put...just do not get a vagina if hair is growing in there, screw it...save your money and get to a doctor that can guarantee a nice moist environment for your girls. Suporn did that for me, no hair in there.

A nice moist environment for your girls, I don't understand...  ???

I had SRS with Bowers and I was not happy with my results.  I do have a couple of hairs growing in there and I know because I used a flashlight, a mirror and one of those vaginal examination, spreader thingees.  There weren't many, like maybe two or three.