Susan's Place Transgender Resources

i was wondering how important you think it is for a transwoman to have a self defense weapon on them when out in public. do any of you carry them in some concealed area like a purse, so it's available for quick draw. if you do, what is it, and have you ever needed to use it?

How important is it?  I don't know, how much do you value your life?  Trans or not, I am an advocate for the second amendment.

I frequently conceal carry my Glock pistol on my waist.  I advise against carrying in a purse as many criminals prefer to "purse snatch" as opposed to an actual "give me your purse" type incident.  Furthermore, carrying in a purse is not exactly readily accessible.  I have never had to fire my weapon, however, I have had to draw it.  There is very little time to draw your weapon, and typically if the assailant is within 21 feet, you will not have your gun out in time to successfully use it; at that point, you're better off running or engaging in hand to hand combat.

Ooo stldrmgrl that sounds like an interesting story. Why'd you have to draw it?

Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on December 20, 2011, 11:19:48 PM
Ooo stldrmgrl that sounds like an interesting story. Why'd you have to draw it?

A man was panhandling in a Target parking lot.  As I was putting my bags into my vehicle, I noticed his tactics involved in asking for "donations" were quite a bit threatening.  I saw him nearly run up on a woman who was exiting her vehicle, and despite her requests for him to leave her alone, he refused.  At this point she began walking in the parking lot towards the front of the store, and he followed.  I locked my vehicle and followed them.  I began yelling at the guy, telling him to back off.  He turned around towards me, stuck his hand into his pocket and pulled out a pocket knife and began walking towards me.  I demanded he stop advancing and to put the knife away.  He did not listen, and at that point I drew my gun and again demanded he stop.  At this point the woman was already calling 911.  The man wound up running off after seeing my gun, and I'm under the impression they never caught him as I nor the woman were ever asked to ID anyone.

Quote from: stldrmgrl on December 20, 2011, 11:30:13 PM
A man was panhandling in a Target parking lot.  As I was putting my bags into my vehicle, I noticed his tactics involved in asking for "donations" were quite a bit threatening.  I saw him nearly run up on a woman who was exiting her vehicle, and despite her requests for him to leave her alone, he refused.  At this point she began walking in the parking lot towards the front of the store, and he followed.  I locked my vehicle and followed them.  I began yelling at the guy, telling him to back off.  He turned around towards me, stuck his hand into his pocket and pulled out a pocket knife and began walking towards me.  I demanded he stop advancing and to put the knife away.  He did not listen, and at that point I drew my gun and again demanded he stop.  At this point the woman was already calling 911.  The man wound up running off after seeing my gun, and I'm under the impression they never caught him as I nor the woman were ever asked to ID anyone.

Damn, girl, I'm going to start calling "Hicks".

Quote from: FullMoon19 on December 20, 2011, 11:13:04 PM
i was wondering how important you think it is for a transwoman to have a self defense weapon on them when out in public. do any of you carry them in some concealed area like a purse, so it's available for quick draw. if you do, what is it, and have you ever needed to use it?

i carry a knife : )
Hope to never use it.

I carry a bull whip with a drop forged high gloss polished steel penis head on the tip  >:-)

Sorry, I'm terrible 

But seriously, I don't carry any weapons  :-\  Maybe I should? But I have been trained in a marshal art that teaches making a weapon out of just about anything

Quote from: A_Dresden_Doll on December 20, 2011, 11:52:47 PM
Damn, girl, I'm going to start calling "Hicks".

???

My size 12 foot ramming into their genitalia.

I think its very important!  There is just so many hate crimes and assaults towards people like us. I agree with Stldrmgrl we have the second amendment for a reson, don't hesitate too put it to good use. I do not want to be another trans person dead statistic, being a cop is dangerous but I think being trans is more dangerous, people hate on trans for no reason. For me, well I have a doubledose of hate, for being trans and a cop! We are all extremely brave when we go out trying to pass! I carry my Glock 27 with me everywhere.

Its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! Be safe out there girls!

Quote from: JoeyD on December 21, 2011, 12:32:17 AM
My size 12 foot ramming into their genitalia.

lol! Very good Joey!
I could just picture your cute little butt doing it too! Haha ....with cleats!

Quote from: JennyCop on December 21, 2011, 12:42:45 AM
I carry my Glock 27 with me everywhere.

Props on controlling that little booger of a gun.  I had a 26 and it was just too small for me.  .40 S&W in general has too much flip for my liking even with a full-size pistol; put into a smaller package and you're asking for a broken wrist :laugh:

Quote from: JoeyD on December 21, 2011, 12:32:17 AM
My size 12 foot ramming into their genitalia.

it hurts even if you have a vagina!

Vag kick and cooter punch montage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOLfMe8DlxY&feature=related#)

Quote from: stldrmgrl on December 21, 2011, 12:52:47 AM
Props on controlling that little booger of a gun.  I had a 26 and it was just too small for me.  .40 S&W in general has too much flip for my liking even with a full-size pistol; put into a smaller package and you're asking for a broken wrist :laugh:

It does have quiet the kick, lol! But I like it! I like that is small its easier to conceal, in my opinion. I agree with you on the S&W. I switch off between a glock 22 and a Colt 1911. Full size when on duty. Broken wrist haha .. have you tried shooting a 44mag revolver or a snub nose. Ouch!

I am currently reading my American handgunner magazine by the way! Lol

Now I wanna learn how to use a gun ):

I'm jelly.

This sort of thread comes up every know and again. Of course it varies from country to country. In Australia you cannot carry weapons unless you are a crook or in a bikie gang. Then it's OK to carry and use any sort of weapon with impunity.

I think most threads end up with don't get into the situation. It is extremely difficult to defend yourself from some one who practices street violence on a daily basis. Best not to be near them.

Quote from: JennyCop on December 21, 2011, 01:05:51 AM
It does have quiet the kick, lol! But I like it! I like that is small its easier to conceal, in my opinion. I agree with you on the S&W. I switch off between a glock 22 and a Colt 1911. Full size when on duty. Broken wrist haha .. have you tried shooting a 44mag revolver or a snug nose. Ouch!

I have owned more guns than I can count on my fingers.  I've tried every caliber out there pretty much and found I am most comfortable with .45 caliber (both ACP and GAP).  However, since I used to do armed security, I was required to carry a 9mm (Glock 17).  A while ago I had to sell my .45 Glock (Glock 38), so now I'm stuck with the 17.  It's not too bad to carry, though.

Yes, oh yes, I have experienced the wrath of God in the form of the .44 Magnum revolver.  I'm interested in shooting something bigger, though ;D  My brother has a snub nose revolver; .38 Special - despite being a small caliber, that little gun has more kick than I'm willing to deal with.

Quote from: stldrmgrl on December 21, 2011, 12:25:46 AM
???

Because you are the "ultimate badass!".

Quote from: JoeyD on December 21, 2011, 01:09:24 AM
Now I wanna learn how to use a gun ):

I'm jelly.

if I lived closer to you Joey i'd take you out and teach you! Its actually really fun!

we can't carry anything defensive here in UK and if we defended ourself we'd be the one areested.
actually there is a slight change in the air and no charges were brought against a guy who recently shotgunned a robber.

I learned Aikido and Karate when I was in Highschool and in the Air Force. However, a pen or a nice sharp nail file can do some damage. Of course if anyone were to attack me at work I have a veritable arsenal close by. Wrenches, prybars, cutters and something I am particularly proud of: A quick connect airgun with a quick connect barrel made from a small pipe that is capable of firing darts I created using Syringe needle tips, long Q-tips, foam rubber and electrical tape. It fires with about 150-200PSI of force behind it and goes through corrugated cardboard nicely.
It's the result of a slow night at work. Also a friend made me a throwing dart with white streamers out of a plastic runner. It has some piercing power too.

I'm not just a pretty face! :P

I heard that most victims of stabbings and shootings were from people having their own weapons turned against them, not sure how true that is lol because i dont recall when i heard it. Either way im from the UK and its illegal to carry any sort of concealed weapon. ive never even felt remotely like i needed a weapon anyway. I figure my best defence is to run away fast in that situation im no fighter, i would probably hurt myself if i stuck around and pulled a weapon. That said if i lived in the USA i would want to be carrying a weapon, sounds like a scary place by all acounts.

Personally, I would deal with an assailant with a mighty shout. It seems to work great!

FOS RO DAHH!

Quote from: El on December 21, 2011, 03:17:28 AM
I heard that most victims of stabbings and shootings were from people having their own weapons turned against them.

Well carrying a knife for self-defence is pretty stupid. You're not likely to scare anyone off with it and the law will be against you for possession. It's lose/lose pretty much.

In the UK the best thing you can do is manufacture your own brass knuckles (easy), or have someone in the USA buy and dissassemble a stun gun (taser), shove it in a remote control car and ship it over for you to put back together. But brass knuckles can be VERY useful, especially if you're female, because the attacker would least suspect you to KO him like that.

Quote from: 8888 on December 21, 2011, 10:01:29 AM
Well carrying a knife for self-defence is pretty stupid.

I agree, partially.

It is quite easy to disarm someone wielding a knife, and at that point, well, you are likely to be dead.  This is to be mainly pointed at the scenario that the bad guy is not within arms reach.  If you are within arms reach, hand-to-hand combat is probably your best bet with the intent of getting the hell out of there.  If you are unable to elude the attacker, then I do find that a knife can certainly be an effective means within close quarters combat to stop the attacker.  BUT, do not hesitate.  See my first sentence to this paragraph as to what can happen if you hesitate with a knife.

Quote from: El on December 21, 2011, 03:17:28 AM
I heard that most victims of stabbings and shootings were from people having their own weapons turned against them

Doubtful.  However, it is definitely an occurrence.  The problem is people hesitate, and in that simple measly little second they hesitate, it provides enough time for the bad guy to take action and counteract the good guys intention of preventing an attack.  If I draw my firearm, it is with the full and complete intention of pulling that trigger if the attacker does not stop advancing.  As for those who carry knives, see my above comments.

I have a Mag-lite flashlight that I got years ago when I worked a security detail  :)  It's not the big baton size that the police carry, it's the smaller size that takes two C-cell batteries but it is still blindingly bright and could do some damage if I were to bop someone with it

I don't carry it with me much anymore, but there have been a couple of times I've wished I would have had it with me  :P

Quote from: FullMoon19 on December 21, 2011, 12:54:47 AM
it hurts even if you have a vagina!

Vag kick and cooter punch montage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOLfMe8DlxY&feature=related#)

Saints Row 3: Professor Genki LOL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZjZLoulN8#)

Quote from: A_Dresden_Doll on December 21, 2011, 08:12:05 AM
Personally, I would deal with an assailant with a mighty shout. It seems to work great!

FOS RO DAHH!

do the roar!

★Shrek Forever After - Do The Roar (Original Video) [720p HD]★ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWbaDmzCu8g#)

Quote from: Cindy James on December 21, 2011, 01:10:47 AM
This sort of thread comes up every know and again. Of course it varies from country to country. In Australia you cannot carry weapons unless you are a crook or in a bikie gang. Then it's OK to carry and use any sort of weapon with impunity.

I think most threads end up with don't get into the situation. It is extremely difficult to defend yourself from some one who practices street violence on a daily basis. Best not to be near them.

Same for here, we're not allowed to carry weapons, no guns, no knifes.
Just try to avoid such a situation or run away from it.
Only the police can legally use armed force here.

I got 2 knives on me almost all the time, and I will continue to carry them! I also have teargas.

Guns? yes at home. But we are not allowed to carry weapons here so they stay there! If I am not going to a very unsafe place that is. I plan to get hold of a stun-gun!


Other than that, I have recieved pretty good military training in unarming and disabling techniques.. Ok I will be less strong when on HRT but at least they will have some resistance :P.

Quote from: Carolina1983 on December 21, 2011, 04:37:09 PM
Other than that, I have recieved pretty good military training in unarming and disabling techniques.. Ok I will be less strong when on HRT but at least they will have some resistance :P.

I am sure you know as well as I do that strength, in many cases, is irrelevant in the ability to subdue an attacker when speaking in terms of close quarters combat.

Quote from: stldrmgrl on December 21, 2011, 04:43:20 PM
I am sure you know as well as I do that strength, in many cases, is irrelevant in the ability to subdue an attacker when speaking in terms of close-quarter-combat.

Yes I do. But somehow it just feels a bit safer to have that extra strength in you, at least that is the case for me. What I mean is that it boosts my confidence a little :)

About a year ago I was carrying a .40 H&K P2000SK concealed as I was typically leaving my business at night with cash. In that situation I could carry legally without a permit and could be ready as I walked to my truck.

Now I carry a pocket knife all the time (Cold Steel Recon I Tanto is my current favorite) as both a tool and self defense weapon. Last week I was in New Orleans walking down Bourbon street with JessicaH and knew it was there if trouble appeared but ended up using it to cut a fine steak at dinner instead... lol.

I also sometimes carry a ASP 21" expandable baton (like the police carry) with the flashlight attachment. It looks like a Mag-Lite and is a great flashlight but can turn into a powerful defensive weapon fast.

I stopped carrying my handgun unless I travel as I felt like it was an accident waiting to happen with two young children. The problem with a gun is that if you pull it you better be prepared to use it and capable of justifying the use legally. And face it, as a Transwoman, I may not get fair treatment by the police. What I like about the baton is it fits in my pocket and looks innocent enough but gives me a non lethal but still very serious defense option. When walking through a dark parking lot you can also carry it in your hand and not draw any attention.

IMO your best weapon is to use your head, avoid dangerous situations and people when possible, ignore any provoking comments, use caution, and maintain an awareness of your surroundings.

I have brass knuckles and pepper spray.

I have a working brain, a trained mind and common sense.  I find that those three things alleviate the need to have a weapon.

I agree with Tekla and I have to say the average woman using brass knuckles to hit a guy, who is intent on violence, will be as effective as pretending to be a duck and say quack. People who are experienced at violence are very good at it. Socio paths really don't care if you try to hurt them. It's part of the fun. You are far better off learning to read situations and avoid them.

When I was a presenting as a guy I had a 1st Dan in karate and specialised in free fighting. Even or because I was a light weight I was good.  I took a full round house kick to the face that I failed to completely block, it was full on, it dislocated my jaw, it didn't KO me. I won the fight. Never ever think that you can subdue an attacker, and if they are on drugs? Forget everything you ever thought off. Just get out.
Best weapons throw your high heels at it and run like hell.

Cindy

After 30 years in the Police, I agree with Cindy.  Avoid the situations where you will need it, and otherwise, heels off and run until you can phone the Police.  Even the Police are asked to justify their actions if they shoot someone.
Karen.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 22, 2011, 12:51:33 AM
I have brass knuckles and pepper spray.

won't the brass knuckles clog the spray nozzle?

While I certainly feel running away is the best course of action, it doesn't always work.  If an attacker has you pinned as their target, they will follow right behind you.  I stand by carrying my firearm, and I'm fully aware of the legal aspect of use of force.  Find yourself in a situation where you are pinned as a target, where the attacker will go to any lengths to get/do what he/she wants, then tell me simply throwing a heal is going to ward them off.  I beg to differ.

Furthermore, not finding yourself in dangerous situations can only be achieved somewhat.  Sure, there are more dangerous areas than others, but crime can occur anywhere at anytime by anyone.  Never assume you are safe, because you aren't.  Always staying aware and using common sense surely are important, but I can promise you it will not be the reason you are never attacked.

Strength is extremely important in violence. I'm not good at violence because I have a small torso and I literally can't move men when I hit them. I'm physically very strong and capable but I can't dent them and if they get a hold of me I'm finished.

Quote from: fionabell on December 22, 2011, 08:58:38 PM
Strength is extremely important in violence.

I will agree to disagree.

Quote from: stldrmgrl on December 22, 2011, 09:08:27 PM
I will agree to disagree.

:P

Quote from: fionabell on December 22, 2011, 08:58:38 PM
Strength is extremely important in violence.

Not really. Stamina is. :) I mean, running away till you reach a safe place is the best.
I know a full-muscle security guard who is quite strong, yeah, but not quick enough. He can smash somebody's face so easily or his hands are like chain handcuffs but if somebody can get behind him, in a half-second, he fails...

Sorry for being nosy in this topic, but I was reading this and that, and... I don't recommend carrying a knife. As you talked about it, on the 2nd page.
Or what is not a common stuff in your hand you don't know it well. I mean, you can hurt yourself so easily. Anyway, if interested, a good aikido trainer/sensei can teach couple of techniques with a wooden dagger called "tanto", how to take it from somebody etc. However our sensei told us all the time that the best way to avoid a knife-attack is... running.)

BUT! We all have not-special, everyday stuff in our handbags, pockets which can help a bit. If you have a lit cigarette or a pin/needle/badge etc. - these are simple, useful for a blink of an eye till you take a breath and run away. ;)

IDK if your country/state give permission of having a small pepper-spray in your handbag... but I truly recommend that. I carry one since I've been hit. (Well it's difficult to put it in mind that if you pull it out you HAVE to use it inmediately. Or the attacker'll take advantage if you hesitate. Or if you're standing mute like I did, as a complete idiot. :( )

Take care y'all!
(Sorry for punk English, not slept for a day...  ::) )

Quote from: Andris on December 22, 2011, 10:32:04 PM
Not really. Stamina is. :) I mean, running away till you reach a safe place is the best.

I agree

Quote
I know a full-muscle security guard who is quite strong, yeah, but not quick enough. He can smash somebody's face so easily or his hands are like chain handcuffs but if somebody can get behind him, in a half-second, he fails...

Sorry for being nosy in this topic, but I was reading this and that, and... I don't recommend carrying a knife. As you talked about it, on the 2nd page.

I don't want anything to do with knives

Quote
Or what is not a common stuff in your hand you don't know it well. I mean, you can hurt yourself so easily. Anyway, if interested, a good aikido trainer/sensei can teach couple of techniques with a wooden dagger called "tanto", how to take it from somebody etc. However our sensei told us all the time that the best way to avoid a knife-attack is... running.)

BUT! We all have not-special, everyday stuff in our handbags, pockets which can help a bit. If you have a lit cigarette or a pin/needle/badge etc. - these are simple, useful for a blink of an eye till you take a breath and run away. ;)

IDK if your country/state give permission of having a small pepper-spray in your handbag... but I truly recommend that. I carry one since I've been hit. (Well it's difficult to put it in mind that if you pull it out you HAVE to use it inmediately. Or the attacker'll take advantage if you hesitate. Or if you're standing mute like I did, as a complete idiot. :( )

Take care y'all!
(Sorry for punk English, not slept for a day...  ::) )

thanks for dropping in. :)

For threats unrelated to me being female or trans, first I use my brain to avoid situations; knowing that isn't always going to work, I try to carry some cash to satisfy potential muggers or thieves.  My life isn't worth $100.  So far, I've avoided situations like this.

As for the much more dangerous threats based on me being female or trans, I would run fast as I could toward a place with people while screaming for help.  If this simply isn't an option, it comes down to what their apparent motivation is.  If it is rape and they have the means to kill me, I suppose I would accept my fate so I might at least remain alive.  If they want to kill me outright for being trans, I would put up whatever meager resistance I could... I'm not a fighter in any sense.  I could also try to manipulate them into believing I'm not trans somehow, who knows.  Too many unknowns.

Just a couple of quick points, as I've made in the past when this topic has come up:

1, owning a gun does not make you a marksman (or markswoman).

2, having taken a martial arts class for a few months (or even a year) several years ago does not make you a fighter.

The key to any ability at self defense is proficiency--you have to practice, and practice often, what it is you believe you will be called upon to do.

Every woman faces a risk of harm, even in the most "civilized" of nations.  The important thing is how well you are equiped to deal with those threats, in terms of both hardware (weapons) and hand-to-gland combat, as well as how readily you are, mentally, to use force that you know (or should know) will cause harm--even significant harm--to those confronting you.

If you don't go to the range regularly, or the dojo, then you are fooling yourself if you think you're ready to face an attack--especially from multiple attackers.

Get all the training you can, as often as you can--and then be smart enough to avoid being in situations where you may need that training!

Just my 2 cents...

I cannot imagine anyone carrying a firearm and not regularly practicing with it, however, unfortunately it probably is so.

Certain styles of martial arts are worth knowing, but unfortunately I also find many of them to be utterly worthless.

As for knowing what harm I will cause the assailant; I do not care.  I am fully aware of Florida laws depicting my legal rights in using each level of force.  I have no compassion for someone attempting to attack me.

When you're on the wrong side of the hood, it is pretty important. Transness non-withstanding.

.45 is what I say, proceed to the nearest range and ask about the laws in your town if you can legally carry. If not then do so at your own discretion or get some mace at least.

I know the basics on how to defend myself and the legs to run when I can't, but I have also not been hesitant about carrying various weapons around.
If the (other) thugs are packin why shouldn't I?  :icon_2gun:

i don't always carry my knife but that's because i don't always bring my purse around with me unless i'm going somewhere far. I probs will start bringing it around with me when i begin wearing make up more.
Carrying a knife is stupid and i completely agree with that, it's just an item i have with me I don't know why it makes me feel safer other then that it is sharp and is something next to nothing. I'm thinking i may switch to pepper spray or something.
I'm not a violent person at all but i hope if I'm ever faced with some sort of violent resistance in my life that I am able to defend myself in some way to where i can either get away from the attacker, or not allow myself to get hurt.
I used to identify as a pacifist, but I will admit that I do not want to be defenseless in the face of transphobia or some kind of hate.

Quote from: Torn1990 on December 23, 2011, 01:16:51 PM
i don't always carry my knife but that's because i don't always bring my purse around with me unless i'm going somewhere far. I probs will start bringing it around with me when i begin wearing make up more.
Carrying a knife is stupid and i completely agree with that, it's just an item i have with me I don't know why it makes me feel safer other then that it is sharp and is something next to nothing. I'm thinking i may switch to pepper spray or something.
I'm not a violent person at all but i hope if I'm ever faced with some sort of violent resistance in my life that I am able to defend myself in some way to where i can either get away from the attacker, or not allow myself to get hurt.
I used to identify as a pacifist, but I will admit that I do not want to be defenseless in the face of transphobia or some kind of hate.

i read years ago in some magazine that there's such thing as lipstick that you turn and a bullet shoots out. i'd take that around with me. it has the element of surprise  :icon_giggle:

Quote from: FullMoon19 on December 23, 2011, 01:47:06 PM
i read years ago in some magazine that there's such thing as lipstick that you turn and a bullet shoots out. i'd take that around with me. it has the element of surprise  :icon_giggle:

I could make one of those, but what if I get mixed up :icon_headache:

The police use to (and maybe still do) have trouble with people making single shot guns out of writing pens  :P

I have a service dog that goes with me everywhere. she isn't trained to do anything special SD wise other then to warn me when men are approaching me from behind. I think she would get aggresive if someone actually was attacking me but that hasn't been proved yet and I hope it never is. Besides Chestnut, I am a marine and pretty capable of handling a violent situation.

Quote from: JennyCop on December 21, 2011, 01:05:51 AM
It does have quiet the kick, lol! But I like it! I like that is small its easier to conceal, in my opinion. I agree with you on the S&W. I switch off between a glock 22 and a Colt 1911. Full size when on duty. Broken wrist haha .. have you tried shooting a 44mag revolver or a snub nose. Ouch!

I am currently reading my American handgunner magazine by the way! Lol

I carry a colt 1911

Honestly... weapons scare me and I am allergic to confrontation. If I were really concerned I might get pepper spray or something.

Hey guys I work in a medium custody male prison around convicted felons. Murderers, rapists, druggies etc etc...you name it he is in there. We correctional officers only get a 5 ounce can of pepper spray to defend ourselves. There are basic classes such as ground defense, close quarters, and knife tactics that you can take but really that is not enough to get a huge man that has nothing to do but work out all day off of you. They teach us to defend until we can get away or help arrives. If you can, the best solution is to run away. Don't try to be a super hero because you will most likely get hurt or killed. If you are forced into a confrontation go for the more vital spots or other areas good to stun/subdue/knockdown the offender and get away. Vital spots include solar plexus, groin, brachial nerve(outside of neck), collar bone, nose, knees, elbows, ribs, and pressure points. I'm sure there are a few more but these are good starters. Also, a loud yell will sometimes startle the offender.

Here is a video that is super popular but is an example of what happens when the brachial nerve is hit. The force does not need to be great, try it on yourself for example. Very little force can will be effective.
Pimp gets a karate chop. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLJxMvVoPeU#)

Vital points: http://www.barrel.net/vital_points.php (http://www.barrel.net/vital_points.php)

Someone mentioned carrying some pepper spray, and like I said that is the only thing we get against these convicts. Let me say this: pepper spray is effective if you get them in the face. Their eyes will close up, they will start to cough, sneeze, and have a generally hard time breathing. It will also burn a lot especially if the person is sweating(pors open). Since I work around the stuff all the time pepper spray has lost the effectiveness but I can still feel it burning a day later.

I've been taking taekwondo for the past 5 years and have taken all of the training courses the state provides correctional officers and still I would be no match against one of these guys. Just a little bit from a correctional officer with 3 yrs experience.  ;)

Quote from: Minhuit on December 23, 2011, 08:53:40 PM
Hey guys I work in a medium custody male prison around convicted felons. Murderers, rapists, druggies etc etc...you name it he is in there. We correctional officers only get a 5 ounce can of pepper spray to defend ourselves. There are basic classes such as ground defense, close quarters, and knife tactics that you can take but really that is not enough to get a huge man that has nothing to do but work out all day off of you. They teach us to defend until we can get away or help arrives. If you can, the best solution is to run away. Don't try to be a super hero because you will most likely get hurt or killed. If you are forced into a confrontation go for the more vital spots or other areas good to stun/subdue/knockdown the offender and get away. Vital spots include solar plexus, groin, brachial nerve(outside of neck), collar bone, nose, knees, elbows, ribs, and pressure points. I'm sure there are a few more but these are good starters. Also, a loud yell will sometimes startle the offender.

Here is a video that is super popular but is an example of what happens when the brachial nerve is hit. The force does not need to be great, try it on yourself for example. Very little force can will be effective.
Pimp gets a karate chop. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLJxMvVoPeU#)

Vital points: http://www.barrel.net/vital_points.php (http://www.barrel.net/vital_points.php)

Someone mentioned carrying some pepper spray, and like I said that is the only thing we get against these convicts. Let me say this: pepper spray is effective if you get them in the face. Their eyes will close up, they will start to cough, sneeze, and have a generally hard time breathing. It will also burn a lot especially if the person is sweating(pors open). Since I work around the stuff all the time pepper spray has lost the effectiveness but I can still feel it burning a day later.

I've been taking taekwondo for the past 5 years and have taken all of the training courses the state provides correctional officers and still I would be no match against one of these guys. Just a little bit from a correctional officer with 3 yrs experience.  ;)

Very informational and truthful.  Awesome post  :)  Thanks.

If you're not in your home and shoot or stab someone, you're going to have a tough time proving self defense. Carving someone up with a knife will land you in prison every time, if you advance close enough for a knife strike, self defense is out the window. People who murder other people are called murderers and go to jail. Planning your "Rambo" moment is a fun diversion, but avoiding conflict is more important. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn on December 23, 2011, 09:09:05 PM
If you're not in your home and shoot or stab someone, you're going to have a tough time proving self defense. Carving someone up with a knife will land you in prison every time, if you advance close enough for a knife strike, self defense is out the window.

There are so many factors that come into play with this, but in general it's quite the opposite.  First, yes, it is best to avoid/run away.  But honestly, I feel this is overrated as it's not always feasible.  Regardless if one thinks they can avoid confrontation and/or these types of situations, you need to be prepared for the worst, because it's not always going to play out so nicely.

Here in Florida, use of force is permitted if you genuinely believe your life is in danger and/or are in fear of great bodily harm.  Plain and simple.  Yes, you're going to need to prove it, but Florida law tends to side with the apparent victim unless suspicions are raised otherwise.  Furthermore, typically there will be witnesses to verify the incident or at least corroborate the victims statement (unknown to the victim, obviously).

To elaborate on my above comment of "quite the opposite"; if I am being attacked, it will be more believable that I was in fear for my life and genuinely wanted to get out of that situation, if the bad guy is carved up or shot in vital areas.  The law will look at precise non-lethal stab wounds or precise non-lethal gun shot wounds as "time to think"; in that if one has the time to aim for a leg or a specific area of the body to inflict injury but non-lethal in nature, then one cannot possibly truly be in fear for his/her life.  It is advised with a firearm to aim for center mass.  Why?  Because that is the area that contains the most vitals and is most likely to stop the attacker.  As well with a knife, if I am pinned, I will slash and slash as much as I can to get away; otherwise if the opportunity to stab a vital area is made available, I will most certainly take it.  As well, Florida law states that if the attacker is [legally] killed during the crime by the victim, the family of the attacker cannot sue the victim.  Even further, any unfortunate injury [unintentionally] caused to a bystander during the attack, will result in further legal ramifications for the suspect (as well as the victim if it was the victim who caused the injury to the bystander, but nonetheless).

Quote from: Devlyn on December 23, 2011, 09:09:05 PM
Planning your "Rambo" moment is a fun diversion, but avoiding conflict is more important.

It's not about having that "Rambo" moment.  It's about being realistic and preparing for the unexpected.  I would not want to find myself being the target of an attack, and having had the mentality of "if I avoid it, it won't happen" in my mind my whole life.  Attacks happen.  They can happen in areas you'd never expect.  They can happen by and to people you'd never expect.  They can happen at any and all hours of the morning, day and night.  Victims are not always chosen with sufficient thought put in by the attacker; there are random, spontaneous attacks.  In either case, running away is most definitely the best choice, I agree.  But again, it's not always an option and I feel it is vital (literally) to know how to handle yourself in situations where running away is not applicable.  I hate to say it, but it sometimes takes being the victim in such attacks to have that "slap in the face" realization.  Being prepared is never a bad thing, but certainly being unprepared can cost you your life.

Oh, and by the way, Florida law states that the Castle Doctrine as well applies to a vehicle, not only a residence/dwelling ("a" used because the victim does not need to be the legal owner/resident/employee of the residence/dwelling or owner/driver of the vehicle); and with the Castle Doctrine, lethal force is granted without question.

All that law stuff you just mentioned happens....at your murder trial. If you are arrested for shooting someone, you will be able to post bail and be free IF you have a good lawyer and lots of money. As for the slap in the face, I've taken plenty of knuckles! I also sport a wide, unstitched slice about three and a half inches long across the small of my back from a fellow soldier with a knife. So I do walk the walk, I'm no stranger to violence, both directions. Hugs, Devlyn

Incorrect in terms of Florida law.  In matters of self-defense, the victim is never placed under arrest unless, again, the officer(s) become suspicious.  The weapon is temporarily confiscated for evidence and logging, but that's typically it.

Quote
Florida State Statute 790.25

(5)  POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

Florida State Statute 776.012

Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

(776.013 depicts the Castle Doctrine)

Quote from: stldrmgrl on December 23, 2011, 09:35:59 PM
I hate to say it, but it sometimes takes being the victim in such attacks to have that "slap in the face" realization.

Quote from: Devlyn on December 23, 2011, 10:00:24 PM
As for the slap in the face, I've taken plenty of knuckles! I also sport a wide, unstitched slice about three and a half inches long across the small of my back from a fellow soldier with a knife. So I do walk the walk, I'm no stranger to violence, both directions.

I apologize for any misinterpretation my comment may have presented.  It was intended in a general sense, perhaps rhetorical in nature, but most certainly not specific to anyone.

As I posted earlier, the only thing these threads bring up is the difference in laws between states and countries.  I'm not sure if even our Police Force can carry stldrmgl level of weaponry publicly , never mind privately, definitely not.. Obviously our equivalent to SWAT teams do, but citizens in Australia are not allowed to carry weapons, if you do you are in breach of the law.
As for a man or a woman carrying a concealed handgun then you are in breach of the law, if you use it, even in self defence you will probably have to face a murder charge or at the best manslaughter. The last one in Adelaide that I can recall, there are probably others, was a petrol station attendant who was being robbed by an armed criminal, a customer came in, saw what was going on took out a revolver, confronted the person, shots were fired. And to cut the story short, he went to prison for manslaughter.

Knives are also considered lethal weapons and the same law applies.

Cindy

I have a machete under my bed for home defence. I'm counting on the sight of a crazy machete wielding bloke in a flowery nightgown to cripple the intruder with laughter.