Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I've been adding several of the girls on this board on facebook. Often the most feminine "boys" now. I am in awe of their beauty as both men and as future women. I am so honored to have became their "ladydragonmoms" and guide them in transition.

But I can't help wonder if their appearance is a large part of why they are transitioning. Extremely fine bone structure, feminine features, short for "men", etc...everything about them says "girl" and they aren't on hormones/makeup yet. Whether we want to admit it or not, these girls will make successful transitions. So many times I've met people who told me, "You were a beautiful boy, but you're perfect as a female...you were meant to be a girl". Almost like being any form of male, especially a flaming gay boy...wasn't meant for me.

Mannerisms aside, appearance accounts for a lot. It determines whether people say "sir" or "ma'm". It determines your future relationships, social situations, etc. To successfully put on a dress in downtown SF and blend.

But using myself as an example. I was never much of a "male" besides being well hung. Girls wanted to go shopping with me, I found most of my friends growing up were women, and the two or three girls I dated in college in my "bi" phase... The relationships weren't successful. Most of them wanting to upgrade and get a more masculine partner. I only went to bed with one girl and that was my ->-bleeped-<- hag.

I attempted to live life as one of SF's many gay kink clones.... More Folsom than Castro at the time. With my shaved head, glorious plucked eyebrows, foundation, feminine jewelery. I had gotten a job working in a wherehouse and my boss often wondered why there was stuff I wasn't telling him. My boss was this football coach, masculine straight man and he knew something was up. I had trouble being "one of the guys". He even asked me multiple times if I was gay...He knew in retrospect. But I didn't want to lose my job with him.

My Mom wanted me to marry a girl and have children. Of course, I was terrified of vaginas and I had no interest in being with women beyond, "Hey, she has nice boobies and butt to play with". I was into men...men with perfect chests, feminine attitudes, etc...

So basically, do you think the feminine appearance of a male determines if they are gonna transition or not? Kind of God's reward for not being a reproducing masculine male?

Personally, I think it's a nice gift to have. I was asked if I was a girl in one of my classes when I had my longer hair and just kept my head down. Felt like I was already part-way there.  :)
I don't think that all feminine males would transition though.

Also, hi! First time posting, been watching from the sides for a few days now to get an idea of the community, atleast the MtF part, I'll expand out more later.

No. There are a lot of transwomen who were pretty masculine at one point in time due to social pressures--ex-marines and whatnot. I always had a lot of guys and girls flirting with me. Well, after I lost all the weight, anyway. I used to weigh around 300 lbs. Then I lifted weights and ran a lot. I got fairly muscular at one point. Once I lost all the weight, I had both guys and girls hitting on me a lot--a lot of Mormon girls too, actually, which was sort of odd. That tells you I didn't read as all that feminine. Facial hair is pretty thick in my family and, as a result, electrolysis has been a slow pain in the ass. I can't say that I had ever been described as pretty or feminine or anything like that prior to transitioning. I think some of my family members have questioned my orientation simply because I wasn't married with 3 kids by the age of 25, which is the norm among Mormons. Lately, I've been gendered correctly more frequently as I make more progress on electrolysis. I don't typically wear a whole lot of makeup either, and I'm pretty much a t-shirt and jeans kind of gal. As for people being "meant" to be a woman, sounds like they're just feeding into gender stereotypes and heteronormativity. There are plenty of butch women out there--cis and trans.

I made a really really good guy :D So, for me at least, I don't think it did :P

Mahsa, you've told me that I am passable and fairly attractive, right?

You have heard my male voice, and I know you have seen my male pics. I just had to werq at it. ;p

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 21, 2011, 05:41:40 PM
Kind of God's reward for not being a reproducing masculine male?

And then, there's also the reward for knowing about and having access to hormones during puberty, or not too soon thereafter.

As for the rest, it's just genetics and it's completely random.  The correlation you're seeing is probably due to those tg girls (or gay boys) transitioning because they knew they would pass easily.  If not, they may have repressed it and possibly transitioned later once it was unbearable.

Mahsa, would you have transitioned if you had a huge masculine frame, unpassable face, and so on?

I do not think so, at least not exactly, for myself at least.  Speaking for myself, I think feminine features made the choice to transition a lot easier.  But I don't think my desire to be female is a result of my somewhat feminine features.  There are lots of guys who are more feminine than I am that do not deal with gender identity issues I bet.  I imagine you could find many a femme twink who would be horrified of becoming a chick.

I've always had a feminine body and been petite.  I feel it didn't necessarily cause me to transition per se, but it did influence my decision in the aspect that I knew I wouldn't have to overcome super-masculine features.  All in all, it's made transitioning easier and it certainly influenced it, but I do not believe that it was the reason I've chosen to do it.

Quote from: Inanna on December 21, 2011, 08:07:12 PM

Mahsa, would you have transitioned if you had a huge masculine frame, unpassable face, and so on?

No, I would have been like my friends and been a weekend queen. I mean I am a TG performer regardless...But I am seen as a woman first and TG second by a lot of the gay men.

Sorry, I applaud the people who go through with it though and they are so brave being a woman regardless.

Quote from: A_Dresden_Doll on December 21, 2011, 07:44:43 PM
Mahsa, you've told me that I am passable and fairly attractive, right?

You have heard my male voice, and I know you have seen my male pics. I just had to werq at it. ;p

You are. But you have a femme face too...

I don't think so. I wasn't even fully aware of how feminine I seemed to people till after I'd already started transitioning. I think I was just so scared that I didn't want to know how easy it could be for me. It has been incredibly helpful after the fact though.

This is similar to the other thread about "if you knew you could not pass, would you still transition"?....

I ve always felt like a girl when I was growing up, but I did not have quite that deep hatred of myself as a guy - I just knew I wanted to be a woman and liked it.

When I was finally away from my watchful mom and able to experiment with dressing up, everyone's jaws were always dropped because they kept saying, "OMG, you look so (hot, beautiful, sexy, whatever)" and like you, Masha, "You should have been a woman".

For various issues and reasons, I never took that plunge into transitioning full-time or hormones until I finally realized I was not getting any younger any more and I really wanted to be that beautiful woman that everyone adored and said I should have been before it was too late.

So, in more or less words, yes, I was fortunate to have had pleasingly aesthetics as in facial structure prior to transitioning since I was already passing even with a wig on and merely makeup without any hormones or FFS.

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 21, 2011, 09:10:42 PM
You are. But you have a femme face too...

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi156.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft3%2Fhuntaar%2F074.jpg&hash=077f302a8ab2b72f8612dc64d2875a51eb3ab613)
Really? :P

I think it might help you be confident enough to start earlier knowing that you would match the social norm, rather than wait for the internal stresses to become more extreme.  The earlier you start the more effective HRT is too, which could be a further encouragement.
In the past it was apparently common for therapists to discourage transition by patients who would have difficulty passing.
Karen.

I'm one of those who look and sound like a girl (NB doesn't mean I'm pretty!!!) without doing much, being full-time already before having started HRT and never using make-up (read: I still haven't got around to learning how to use some, not because I don't want to).

Yet I definitely do not feel like I transitioned because I can easily look like a girl. I already wanted to be a girl long, long before realizing that I could actually pass as one without too much difficulty... I didn't even know it's possible for me to become a girl when I was young.

PS the Mahsa self-avatar is back!! Now don't change it back pleeease ;D

Quote from: apple pie on December 22, 2011, 12:32:55 AM

PS the Mahsa avatar is back!!

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Quote from: Mahsa the disco shark on December 22, 2011, 12:34:22 AM
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Oops I edited my post while you were posting ;D go read it again

Quote from: apple pie on December 22, 2011, 12:36:00 AM
Oops I edited my post while you were posting ;D go read it again

I thought people preferred the cyborg/robots I was posting. I thought they were sexxxy.

Now gonna go fantasize to a photo of Daft Punk.

I was trying to work out where I had seen them.  You look cute either way sis!

Does appearance determine transition?  For me... 100% yes.  Many times throughout my transition I have doubted myself.  Doubted that I could pass.  Doubted that I'd ever have a future living as a woman.  However, what has given me the strength to continue on was people always thinking that I was a girl even while dressed as a boy.  Being told I'm in the wrong bathroom, getting called "ladies" while with another girl, and even guys flirting.  If not for those instances of confirmation that I could pass as a girl, I'd have been MUCH more hesitant about transitioning.  Being happy when people thought I was a girl (at the age of 14) actually caused me to find out I'm trans.  If I'd looked like a masculine guy through my teens, it would have been a much rougher ride. 

In other words, if you look feminine from the get go, it's going to be a smooth transition on the outside which will make it smooth on the inside.

it doesn't matter how much I trans, family keeps telling me, I'm not a girl.

Lyss -

I think it's much more important for you to transition and find a way to pass if you're trans than what your family is telling you, as long as you know it isn't true. I'm a transguy, but I tend to frequent all of the sections because I like to stay informed about people in general and keep an open mind in attempting to understand issues that may not be entirely equivalent to my own; I also posted on your topic that talked about the "pronouns" and I know that's what you're referring to here...and I have to say I don't think your comment holds much relevance to this topic, especially with all of the advice many of the people who posted in your topic (and also posted here) have given you. It seems like you're not really paying much mind to what other people are saying to you, because I don't think it's the MTF community ganging up on you like you may feel or something. I also agreed with the things they were saying and it's not fair to keep reiterating your problem when people have already given you advice to help you pass more. Just thought I would say.

I imagine what you're noticing is more of a decrease in the age of transition with the Internet and openness of information people are able to discover that they can even transition a lot earlier, I know for me since I'd been pretty reserved when I started using the Internet one of earliest things I searched for was about changing my body to that of a girl which opened me up to what I'd been searching for without asking people face to face. Thus they have less masculine features because they're simply younger.

But if there's one thing I've learned from trans communities it's that there's no finite reason we transition but people transition for all different reasons; whether it's a dysphoria that has them in detest with their body, or they feel that their personality and mannerism would have them better fit in with society as a girl, and combinations of these reasons.

I have a stupid ugly face, but still want to transition. However, I suppose if it was a bit more than that, I would put more thought into it.

Plenty of femme guys don't transition... plenty of masculine ones do. There may be a correlation, but I don't imagine it would be major enough to build a solid idea on.

As for myself, I feel that my appearance is sort of middle-of-the-line, where FFS might be nice, but I can pass without it. I'm probably androgynous-looking in male-mode, though I have no way to know. My transition, however, was not based on whether I could pass or not... I did it hoping I would, but my primary reason was sanity retention. I would have gone crazy if I had to live as male, and I mean that literally.

Honestly, I think most orientations and gender disorders are usually pretty genetic and ingrained, but I believe that looks and appearance have a LOT to do with how open and confident one is about it. Generally speaking, the hot boys are the ones who don't get any "flack" at school for coming out as gay or Trans, while the ugly boys are the ones who are always picked on for those very same words - I got picked on so much in high school for being gay at the time - even by other gay boys. There were so many gay boys who, just because they were so much hotter than me, were tremendously popular and very open about their sexualities. Then there were the gay boys who were so extremely ugly that they had like a in-denial sense of confidence and were confident none-the-less. I'm speaking about gays here because Trans people didn't really exist in my school.

Like me, I'm as masculine as can be, I have extremely male features, and male features that even are very ugly compared today's "hot" male (Aston Kutcher, Justin Bieber, Johnny Depp, ect ect). I look more like Jack Black. I'm extremely self-concious about Transitioning and Dating, and people who don't even know I'm Trans call me ugly all the time, even when I dress as a natal male. I have a pretty horrible confidence. I am not transitioning at the moment. I just find it impossible beyond any sort of reason.

However, when it comes to if some boys transition just because they were born looking like a girl, I don't think that's true. If it was true, Justin Bieber (and every one of his genetic clones - there's about 5 in every middle school/high school classroom, his genetic makeup and physical features are extremely common among young boys) would have claimed they were Trans a long time ago. However, these guys indeed end up being the most confident out of Today's male generation (long gone is the sportsy, buff, athletic man - everyone in today's world thinks of that type of man as being a "douchebag".) So wether they're gay, straight, or Trans, the cute, petite, model-esque males in today's world usually are always the most popular, confident, and open about whatever it is they may go through internally.